22:00:25 <krotscheck> #startmeeting app_ecosystem_wg
22:00:26 <openstack> Meeting started Mon Jul 18 22:00:25 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:00:27 <openstack> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
22:00:29 <openstack> The meeting name has been set to 'app_ecosystem_wg'
22:00:33 <krotscheck> Happy monday everyone!
22:00:47 * krotscheck touched down in seattle about 3 hours ago, so he's still GMT+2
22:01:06 <Patifa> hello! welcome back
22:01:29 * krotscheck may be a little woozy, please disregard any pokemon references.
22:01:41 <krotscheck> Who made it today?
22:01:46 <calebb> o/
22:01:55 <craigs> o/
22:02:13 <Patifa> o/
22:02:34 <krotscheck> #topic Logistics: What is an app.
22:03:05 <krotscheck> Patifa: I wasn't in last weeks meeting, so I don't know exactly what question I should be asking. Mind filling me in?
22:03:44 <Patifa> i created an etherpad with the discussion so we could elaborate on that to have a final copy of the definition.
22:03:52 <Patifa> we did not touch this last meeting though
22:03:59 <reed> o/
22:04:04 <Patifa> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/App_Ecosystem_Workgroup-App_Definition
22:04:15 <reed> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/App_Ecosystem_Workgroup-App_Definition
22:04:32 <krotscheck> Ok, what needs to be done to put this to rest?
22:05:32 <Patifa> I guess write down the definition in another format and vote on it...
22:05:48 <Patifa> we can collaborate offline during the week
22:06:07 <Patifa> bring it back next week and put it to rest...
22:06:08 <krotscheck> Ok, is everyone willing ot take a look at the etherpad and try to draft somethign?
22:06:18 <craigs> yep
22:06:25 <Patifa> yep
22:06:56 <krotscheck> #agreed WG to collaborate offline before next week's meeting and get a votable deliverable.
22:07:03 <reed> that discussion probably needs another pass on the mailing list, too
22:08:06 <krotscheck> reed: We very deliberately closed the discussion on the mailing list. We need *something* to solidify, else we'll end up bikeshedding the topic to death.
22:08:21 <reed> FWIW I don't consider the point #4 part of the applications
22:08:35 <reed> as you wish ...
22:08:50 <reed> my gut feeling is that few people gave their thoughts
22:09:01 <reed> but it's fine to cut it anyway, can always be changed later
22:09:07 <Patifa> so collaborate offline until Wednesday, create a votable delivery, bring it back to the mailing list perhaps?
22:09:21 <krotscheck> Well, once we have something, we can always revise. I'd like to remind people that we're not trying to be perfect the first time around.
22:09:36 <reed> makes sense krotscheck
22:10:05 <reed> Patifa, I think it's enough to present the votable delivery to the list before it's voted on Monday
22:10:22 <Patifa> fine by me reed
22:10:32 <reed> so people will have a chance to give one last look at it and say something
22:10:46 <krotscheck> reed: That's a good point though, make sure that everyone knows that this isn't set in stone and we can keep iterating as issues arise.
22:10:59 <krotscheck> But we do need to draw a line and ship something.
22:11:24 * reed agrees
22:11:27 <krotscheck> Alright, so: draft by wednesday, put it on list for vote next monday.
22:11:37 <Patifa> ok. I'll do that
22:11:40 <krotscheck> Sweet.
22:11:57 <krotscheck> Are we ok with this topic? Shall we move on?
22:12:03 <Patifa> #action Patifa draft by wednesday, put it on list for vote next monday
22:12:43 <krotscheck> Alright, next:
22:12:47 <krotscheck> #topic Hosted IRC
22:13:07 <krotscheck> docaedo: I think he said he couldn't make it and sent out a summary.
22:14:07 * krotscheck is digging...
22:14:41 <krotscheck> Here we are;
22:14:42 <krotscheck> #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2016-July/001116.html
22:15:25 <krotscheck> Specifically he issued a request for anyone good with Node.js willing ot help write the auth piece.
22:15:33 <krotscheck> Any volunteers that aren't already swamped with other JS things?
22:15:35 <krotscheck> :D
22:16:24 <krotscheck> I'll take that as a no. We'll move on for now.
22:16:37 <krotscheck> #topic FirstApp- jclouds
22:16:42 <krotscheck> craigs?
22:16:57 <craigs> Updated the etherpad with the update from Martin
22:17:27 <craigs> He is making progress, but apparently the released version of jcloud is not compatible with Liberty
22:17:41 * krotscheck is reading that.
22:17:50 <craigs> so he is testing with a jcloud 2.x candidate
22:18:23 <krotscheck> The question about backporting is an interesting one.
22:19:29 <craigs> yes it is, don't know what will happen with that
22:19:36 <krotscheck> Ultimately, I feel that what we ship should be current with the version of openstack that it's released with. I don't suppose we've talked about versioning our firstapp efforts alongside the integrated release?
22:20:26 <Patifa> nope AFAIK
22:20:32 <craigs> We have not that I am aware of.  At a minimum label what it was tested with and put in a list of issues
22:20:49 <krotscheck> craigs: That's an excellent first start.
22:20:59 <reed> i wonder what doesn't work
22:21:02 <craigs> I don't know that the libcloud runs without issue with Keystone V3
22:21:07 <Patifa> yep.. de we know the current status?
22:22:16 <reed> i haven't looked at that java code in a while...
22:22:30 * krotscheck does java in his fun time.
22:22:46 <krotscheck> Ultimately, having a different version of jclouds isn't tragic.
22:22:59 <krotscheck> The extensions namespace though... that kinda feels like an xml parsing thing?
22:23:07 * krotscheck doesn't know.
22:23:33 <krotscheck> Either way, I see progress being made, and I don't really think jclouds 2.0 is a huge issue as long as we do what craigs suggested and note our own compatibility tests.
22:23:51 <craigs> agree
22:24:14 <krotscheck> Any disagreements?
22:24:42 <Patifa> nope
22:25:08 <krotscheck> #topic FirstApp Status- Shade
22:25:29 <mbonell> block storage - done, I'll sent to review tonight
22:26:10 <krotscheck> mbonell: Same with Scaling Out? It's marked as in progress.
22:26:23 <mbonell> it's on review too
22:26:36 <krotscheck> Nice. Patch?
22:26:38 <mbonell> not approved yet
22:26:42 <mbonell> yes
22:27:30 <calebb> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/341011/
22:27:35 <calebb> you have a -1
22:27:50 <krotscheck> Cool, etherpad updated.
22:28:04 <krotscheck> mbonell: Anything specific you want to bring up on this, or can we move on?
22:28:13 <mbonell> move on
22:28:30 <krotscheck> #topic FirstApp Status: Fog
22:28:46 <krotscheck> No progress in 4 weeks, I suggest we drop it from the agenda.
22:29:04 * Patifa agrees
22:29:08 <craigs> Who is Sean?
22:29:26 <craigs> Anybody following up with him since he doesn't appear to attend
22:29:50 * krotscheck remembers that someone sits next to sean.
22:30:58 <craigs> Well move it to paused, or someone try and figure out who Sean is and ask for an update?
22:31:12 <krotscheck> Sean is  Sean Handley, I don't have an email address for him in the google doc.
22:31:42 <craigs> Sean Handley <sean.handley@datacentred.co.uk>
22:31:53 <craigs> I will ask for an update
22:32:00 <reed> maybe it's time to consider if the format of that first-app tutorial will ever be completed for anything else but libcloud and maybe shade ... it's 1 year old IIRC and still no port completed to other sdks
22:32:00 <krotscheck> Thank you, craigs.
22:33:09 <craigs> #Action Craig check with Sean Handley on FOG Firstapp status
22:33:40 <craigs> oops didn't mean to cap action, not sure if that breaks it
22:33:59 <krotscheck> reed: That seems relevant to a discussion we had two weeks ago about how different kinds of app developers might use the SDK's (i.e. browser devs vs. ops devs)
22:34:56 <krotscheck> reed: I'll bring that up on list, feels like a discussion best had not under time constraint.
22:35:31 <krotscheck> #action krotscheck Check bitrot on first-app tutorial and start discussion.
22:36:09 <krotscheck> #topic Firstapp Status: js-openstack-lib
22:36:20 * krotscheck is back from vacation! Will be able to give more of an update next monday.
22:36:54 <krotscheck> However, I did submit a talk to the summit called "Beyond Horizon: Building custom interfaces with the JavaScript SDK"
22:37:09 <mbonell> nice
22:37:09 <krotscheck> So I'm more or less on the hook now to deliver by barcelona ;)
22:37:37 <krotscheck> Any questions? Else I'll move on.
22:38:37 <krotscheck> #topic FirstApp Status: IOpenStack
22:38:43 <krotscheck> notmars, you around?
22:38:52 <craigs> don't see him online
22:39:17 <krotscheck> Alright, moving on.
22:39:29 <krotscheck> #topic FirstApp Status: Heat
22:39:40 <craigs> Update is in the etherpad
22:39:43 <krotscheck> #chair Patifa
22:39:44 <openstack> Current chairs: Patifa krotscheck
22:39:56 <craigs> Bascially still need to look more into whats been done, I forgot to do it last week
22:40:24 <krotscheck> craigs: Happens to us all. Thanks for keeping us up to date.
22:40:35 <krotscheck> #topic FirstApp Status: Murano
22:40:49 <craigs> Update also in etherpad
22:41:06 <craigs> I wasn't sure what to respond to them using a different app than the fractal one
22:41:08 <craigs> do we care
22:41:34 * krotscheck doesn't know enough about the context of these bits to comment.
22:41:44 <krotscheck> This happened in the last two weeks, yes?
22:41:53 <craigs> yes last week
22:43:17 <krotscheck> Ok, I need to educate myself on the context then. Patifa, do you have a comment re: craigs question on the fractal app?
22:43:22 <craigs> We added a firstapp for heat and murano figuring that people are as likely or more likely to deploy such an app via these tools as they are to use SDK's to manipulate the underlying IaaS
22:43:45 <krotscheck> That makes sense.
22:44:02 <Patifa> doesnt' matter what app, right?
22:44:14 <Patifa> craigs?
22:44:22 <craigs> I don't really care
22:44:39 <craigs> I will ask them to try and follow the general flow of the firstapp
22:45:01 <craigs> creating instances, security groups, kicking off everything, scaling out etc.
22:45:01 <krotscheck> Works for me.
22:45:07 <Patifa> same here
22:46:06 <krotscheck> craigs: Go be an expert on all the things.
22:46:17 <craigs> LOL know more heat that I wish :)
22:46:47 <krotscheck> Ya know, craigs has been answering all the firstapp questions today (with one noted exception). Let's just rename firstapp the Craig Radio Hour ;)
22:47:11 <Patifa> heheheh
22:47:17 <craigs> Oh by the way when I created the agenda, I also stopped at firstapp :)
22:47:22 <krotscheck> Oh.
22:47:23 <krotscheck> Well then.
22:47:26 * krotscheck sighs.
22:47:58 <krotscheck> #topic App hackathon
22:48:30 <Patifa> mbonell
22:49:17 <mbonell> we are talking w/universities to get participants (students)
22:49:30 <mbonell> trainings - done
22:49:55 <mbonell> local communities are supporting the hackathon with mentors :)
22:50:12 <mbonell> working in the infra for the event
22:50:17 <krotscheck> mbonell: Did cloud resources materialize? I remember that vhdiaz was going to talk to internap and/or redhat.
22:50:34 <mbonell> still in progress
22:50:42 <krotscheck> Alright.
22:50:49 <Patifa> mbonell did Piet joined the hackathon meeting about asking participants if they want to be part of user research?
22:51:08 <mbonell> tomorrow is the meeting
22:51:23 <Patifa> last week, I mean
22:51:31 <mbonell> ahh, nop
22:51:35 <krotscheck> 9 minute warning
22:52:47 <Patifa> All right. This might be an interesting topic for the future. How to help the UX project build a database of app developers we can use for research.
22:53:18 <krotscheck> Righto
22:53:20 <craigs> Agree
22:53:26 * krotscheck waves at notmars ;)
22:53:32 <notmars> sorry guys
22:53:39 <notmars> a bit over the place these days
22:53:53 <notmars> I heard by my spies that there was a question :P
22:53:55 <krotscheck> notmars: Can you give us a 1 minute update on IOpenstack?
22:53:56 <Patifa> just realised we have not talked about the ongoing userstudy either.
22:54:36 <notmars> regarding IOpenstack and FirstAppGuide, I'm starting the intro_cloud part
22:54:40 <krotscheck> Patifa: yeah, we should probably look at our agenda and trim things down, it's getting a bit leaky.
22:55:21 <krotscheck> notmars: Thank you!
22:55:22 <notmars> I'm also adding datacentred as one of the default providers supported
22:55:32 <krotscheck> 5 minute warning.
22:55:34 <Patifa> #action Patifa trim agenda for next meeting, consider adding user research efforts.
22:55:35 * notmars finished
22:56:00 <krotscheck> Patifa: Add me to that action.
22:56:04 <krotscheck> :)
22:56:22 <Patifa> krotscheck ok!
22:56:24 <krotscheck> Ok, barcelona.
22:56:27 <krotscheck> #topic Barcelona
22:56:52 <krotscheck> flanders mentioned that they're doing a first run of SDK training at EuroPython this week. Good feedback to be expected soon
22:57:05 <krotscheck> Other than that, thank you everyone for submitting all the talks!
22:57:24 <krotscheck> Any comments on barcelona? Else we'll just do open discussion
22:57:33 <Patifa> I've requested room for our meeting as well as the bof session too
22:57:55 <krotscheck> Patifa++
22:58:28 <krotscheck> Alright, open discussion
22:58:35 <krotscheck> #topic Open Discussion
22:58:41 <krotscheck> 2 minutes :)
22:58:43 <Patifa> it'd be nice if ppl updated the list of sessios proposed in the etherpad
22:59:17 * krotscheck added his talk
22:59:49 <Patifa> do we want a separate etherpad to track this?
23:00:10 <krotscheck> Patifa: Won't hurt. Reduces duplication
23:00:11 <krotscheck> Ok, time. Thanks everyone!
23:00:15 <krotscheck> #endmeeting