16:00:03 #startmeeting api_wg 16:00:06 Meeting started Thu Apr 13 16:00:03 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is cdent. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:07 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 16:00:10 The meeting name has been set to 'api_wg' 16:00:14 heyo/ 16:00:23 \o 16:00:30 #chair cdent elmiko edleafe 16:00:30 Current chairs: cdent edleafe elmiko 16:00:44 #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/API-WG#Agenda 16:00:48 * dtantsur lurks as he's in 2 more meetings 16:00:57 oof 16:01:14 #link last meeting notes http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2017/api_wg.2017-04-06-16.00.html 16:01:23 #topic old biz 16:01:33 elmiko to continue thinking about how to discuss and formulate what we do 16:01:46 that appears to be on the agenda for the opens, so that's a good start 16:01:53 elmiko and cdent to decide (with input from everyone) about how to do summit 16:01:53 score! 16:02:00 * cdent looks at elmiko and shrinks 16:02:05 i did think about it too, but that's more difficult to capture 16:02:14 without maybe a blog post /me looks at edleafe 16:02:17 I don't reckon I did anything in that regard 16:02:32 for me it kinda breaks down into a couple issues 16:02:35 me neither 16:02:46 1. staying true to the original intent 16:02:52 2. growing the group 16:03:10 3. free bagels 16:03:10 if we stick 1, then there is a clear end-line for the group 16:03:17 oh wait, i vote #3 16:03:24 can we add that to our mission? 16:03:58 elmiko: Not unless we also add lox and cream cheese 16:04:15 we have bagels here every week (real ones from new york), did you not know? 16:04:23 edleafe: you are so talking my language 16:04:33 * elmiko wants bagels 16:05:02 I guess it is safe to say 16:05:07 * edleafe gets serious again 16:05:07 #topic new biz and opens 16:05:11 anyways, bagel talk aside, i think the best way to discuss if we should grow or not, or expand the mission is probably best left for a face-to-face 16:05:29 We need to define the "original intent" clearly enough that it attracts new blood 16:05:33 or emails or something, it's a big topic to unpack 16:05:36 for me at least 16:05:54 edleafe: yeah, i'm not sure that's possible if it's just "guidelines" 16:06:14 otoh, keeping it the way it is gives the group a finite mission. which can also be desirable 16:06:20 we could follow the time honoured tradition of pushing a review of the mission and chatting in gerrit but I'm not sure that would capture the full breadth and depth of things 16:06:47 yeah, i don't think it would 16:06:53 Let's have a meeting about that, but we might first need a pre-meeting to refine the topic 16:06:58 for me the thing that start this was the assertion that guidelines were both the activity and the goal 16:07:09 edleafe: please speak with my pa to set that up 16:07:13 lol 16:07:33 The guidelines are the means to reach the goal, which is a better API experience for consumers of OpenStack 16:08:20 that's a good way to put it 16:09:28 after the amount of time and effort put into the interoperability guideline and the amount of questions it opened, I'm less concerned about any finite lifetime than I used to be. There's loads left to do. 16:10:07 Now we have to worry about *our* finite lifetimes 16:10:10 i guess what i'm driving at with that is the notion that the guidelines could eventually be mostly done 16:10:13 'xactly 16:10:14 haha 16:10:46 elmiko: yeah, I no longer really think the guidelines are that close to done, and even if they were, going back to the oldest one and starting over again is a useful activity 16:10:50 like, i can envision a situation where we have most cases covered for openstack and *have* improved the api experience for consumers 16:10:59 cdent: fair 16:11:17 on that front: we rarely talk to consumers, so until we do, we don't really know that much with any confidence 16:11:50 maybe there is a possibility for growth, community outreach to our "customers" as it were 16:12:05 although, is there another wg that does that? 16:12:34 some people have recommended that we speak more and more often with the interop wg and product wg (and probaby others) 16:13:44 That sounds like a forum thing 16:13:44 i think that makes good sense when we consider the idea of improving the api for consumers 16:13:52 yes and yes 16:14:15 but, it also makes me wonder what is our tool for improving the experience when we acknowledge that the guidelines are opt-in? 16:14:30 * elmiko still wants to avoid becoming the api police 16:15:21 i guess the tags will be helpful in this regard 16:15:51 to some extent 16:16:26 but if you put on this api-police hat, we might make progress more quickly 16:16:33 * cdent gives elmiko a very nice hat 16:16:49 * edleafe wants a spiffy uniform to go with it 16:17:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU 16:17:32 LOL 16:18:08 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHVI5fAzWq0 16:18:14 So, perhaps the next step on this topic is for elmiko and I to speak to whomever is willing to chat while at forum, and get a feel for the lay of the land. 16:18:25 cdent: i'm good with that 16:18:39 #action elmiko and cdent prepare to chat about the future at forum 16:19:30 edleafe: oh man, that link 16:19:30 okay 16:20:00 any other new biz or open discussion? anyone else here besides elmiko, edleafe and lurking dtantsur ? 16:21:01 #topic guidelines 16:21:10 #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-wg,n,z 16:22:05 #link pagination https://review.openstack.org/#/c/446716/ 16:22:23 that currently has only one +1 so I guess it is difficult to call it ready 16:22:26 * cdent quickly reviews it 16:22:39 Yeah, I was gonna ask you guys to review that soon 16:22:55 ack, i'll take a look now 16:24:41 #link interoperability https://review.openstack.org/#/c/421846/ 16:24:59 only has one +1 as well, but has been through so many rounds now... 16:25:09 dtantsur: did my cleanups satsify you enough? 16:25:26 cdent, did not have a chance to check, sorry :( 16:25:31 #link correct method for http tags https://review.openstack.org/#/c/451536/ 16:25:32 ETOOMANYTHINGSTODO 16:25:32 I think that those rounds of butting heads has at least aired a lot of the important views on this 16:25:43 that one looks definitely ready to freeze, so I will 16:25:58 * dtantsur will try to quickly check today before going on PTO 16:26:06 i love this addition, "These definitions assume that client code is written to follow the 16:26:09 standards of HTTP." 16:26:54 thanks dtantsur 16:27:00 elmiko: yeah, that's just crazy talk 16:27:05 haha, right 16:35:31 were you still thinking about doing the other guideline spawned from the interoperatbility, edleafe ? 16:35:34 elmiko: long road 16:36:02 cdent: yeah, I could 16:36:11 I'm about to leave for a long weekend though 16:36:19 i don't think there's any rush is there? 16:36:27 So as with the functional tests, remind me next week 16:36:36 The rush is my increasingly fleeting memory 16:36:37 ya 16:36:45 functional tests? 16:36:45 #topic bug review 16:36:53 dtantsur: nova resource tracker stuff 16:37:05 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-api-wg 16:37:09 ah ok 16:37:22 no new bugs 16:37:41 dtantsur: because edleafe is getting on a bit in age, he needs help from others to remember things for him 16:37:53 unfortunately he's chosen me and I think I'm pretty much as old as he is 16:38:01 ouch, savage! 16:38:15 edleafe: maybe we should get dtantsur to remember? 16:38:23 could we add biting sarcasm to the mission statement? 16:38:24 he's already said he's not got enough to do 16:38:24 Hey, cdent, get off my lawn! 16:38:26 WUT? 16:38:29 * dtantsur hides 16:38:46 i feel like we could produce copious quantities 16:39:09 possible because of all that aforementioned trust 16:39:15 haha, true dat 16:39:21 #topic weekly newsletter 16:39:30 api-wg: sarcasm as a service \o/ 16:39:31 #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/api-wg-newsletter 16:39:35 i can take it this week 16:39:43 elmiko: woot 16:39:54 dtantsur: saas is perfect 16:40:00 lol 16:40:12 can we get the logo designers to invite a "snarkhog" ? 16:40:22 s/invite/invent/ 16:40:26 People would pay to have SaaS *un*installed 16:40:31 LOL 16:40:39 oh man, i know what business i need to be in 16:41:15 lol 16:41:29 cdent: just to be clear, we are feezing pagination and interop? 16:41:39 freezing.. sigh, /me needs the long weekend 16:41:40 and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/451536/ 16:41:55 thanks 16:42:55 next week I have an internal meeting that overlaps this one, so while I'll be here, somebody else probably ought to run it 16:43:41 ok, i should be able to run it 16:43:50 hurrah 16:44:56 * cdent moves some links around on newsletter 16:47:22 oh, question about future linkage on the newsletter. when we link in a published guideline do you think we should link to the review or the actually published thing at specs.openstack.org? 16:48:12 cdent: if it's the published one, then the s.o.o one would be best 16:48:22 ✔ 16:48:32 I don't think we've done that in the past, but I agree we should. 16:48:32 agreed 16:48:38 a review can always be superseded 16:48:43 tell me how that paragraph looks 16:49:03 #agreed when publishing links to published guidelines use specs.openstack.org 16:49:17 cdent: thanks for fixing the freeze links 16:50:09 paragraph looks good to me 16:51:00 if edleafe has no objections, i'll ship it 16:51:09 None from me 16:51:43 yeah, ship it 16:51:50 cool, thanks! 16:52:15 no, thank you 16:53:02 anyone else have anything they'd like to say or report? or shall we call it a day? 16:53:12 nothing from me 16:53:30 * edleafe fades to black 16:53:50 thank you and goodnight 16:53:51 #endmeeting