Wednesday, 2015-11-18

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Zaramorning, storyboard!10:26
* pedroalvarez is starting to dislike storyboard dependency on mysql10:43
pedroalvarezlatest mariadb seems to support what storyboard needs, but the version check from the alembic migration script don't work10:45
pedroalvarezI guess it would be possible to check also for maria db versions10:46
pedroalvarezI wonder if a good solution would be to ask forgiveness instead of asking permission in the scripts10:49
persiaOr to ask in -infra if anyone has a good reason not to support mariadb10:56
* persia remembers some old ML threads about mariadb, but not the conclusions10:56
Zarayeah, I've assumed that mysql was chosen to ensure that things fit in with the rest of openstack, but it sounds like it doesn't need to be a dependency... it may be that people don't want to commit to supporting too many things.11:03
Zarathere were some comments in infra yesterday along those lines (someone was asking about postgresql)11:05
* paulsherwood wants postgresql too11:05
persiaOne of the points of the postgresql discussion yesterday was that it was impolitic to speak of "hating", "killing" or "stabbing" postgresql.11:06
persiaThere seemed no objection to dropping yet more support for it.11:06
ZaraI was referring to the discussion that starts around here:
Zarathough I'm not sure how much refers to the specific project and how much to infra in general11:09
* paulsherwood thought postgresql to be less 'hated' than other solns in general11:11
persiaZara: Yes, it started from SpamapS at 18:40.11:13
persiapaulsherwood: Very much not: the problem is that supporting more than one thing is hard, from a testing/gating perspective.  mysql was the original default, and remains the default, so all !mysql suffers and is irritating to developers.11:14
pedroalvarezit is indeed irritating me11:27
paulsherwoodpedroalvarez: postgres? how?11:29
* persia read that as !mysql being irritating, rather than specifically postgres11:30
pedroalvarezthe lack of support for !mysql11:30
paulsherwoodpedroalvarez: let's add pg to sb, then :)11:54
pedroalvarezheh :)11:55
pedroalvarezgiven that my infra is using a mariadb instance, I don't really want to go that way11:55
pedroalvarezin other news, storyboard doesn't quite work with openstackid11:57
pedroalvarezalthough I  guess I'm not configuring it properly11:58
Zarafollowing questions in another channel, here are some general links to useful storyboard resources:12:47
Zaradeveloper docs:
Zaragithub mirror for the api (I just find things easier to read on github):
Zaraand the webclient:
Zarathe api is the python backend stuff; the webclient is the angularjs browser UX stuff. (I didn't realise that when I first came to this project, so might as well mention it)12:50
Zaraapi story list here:!/project/45612:51
Zarawebclient story list here:!/project/45712:51
Zaraif anything is out of date in the docs, please flag it up (or better, send a patch! :))12:52
Zaraand a repeat of the list of patches waiting for review:,n,z12:54
Zarahm, the link breaks in my terminal, but copy and paste should still work12:55
Zarathere are some specs here:
Zara(and also some in the corresponding gerrit project, but some of those may be out of date by now; they've been waiting a while.)12:57
Zaralet me know if there's anything else! :)12:57
betherlygreat thanks Zara12:58
Zaraand now I'll try and sort out an agenda for today's meeting...12:59
Zarawhat used to happen was that we would do all the discussion in this channel over the week, and the meeting would end up just being a summary, but this channel has been much busier since the summit!13:07
ZaraSo I think we'll start using the meeting more as a place to decide things as time goes on.13:08
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Zarameeting in ten!14:50
Zarameeting in #openstack-meeting btw15:01
Zarait has just occured to me that I set the topics all wrong15:43
Zarashould make the logs interesting15:43
Zaraoh no, I think it worked15:44
betherlythanks for leading the meeting Zara it was great15:44
Zaraaw, thanks! :)15:44
ZaraI should probably learn how to delete actions in future, though...15:45
Zararight, priority features15:45
Zarashould we discuss it now or would another time suit people better? (if so, when?)15:45
betherlynow works for me for about 30mins15:46
Zaraokay, great15:46
Zaraso priority number 1 has to be email notifications15:46
Zarawe've got as far as patches to say '$subscribedresource was updated'15:47
Zaraso once those are merged15:47
betherlycan we narrow that even further. ie subpoinnts15:47
betherlyie what does that involve work wise and what will we include feature wise15:47
Zarayeah, was about to say, we can stop at that point if something else seems like a better priority, or we can continue to refine them-- where those questions come in15:48
Zarathis is the patch where the discussion heads toward that:
ZaraSo, re: refining or moving on-- I'm not sure there's anything that's ready to move on to. My gut feeling is that this affects people more than any bugs in search.15:54
persiaLack of subscription makes it not worthwhile to put anything in storyboard: you can't have a conversation, and your stories get lost.15:55
Zaraor at least it will, once it's merged and people start getting lots of emails-- and for as long as it isn't merged, nobody can use storyboard to track tasks without putting in a *lot* of effort.15:55
persiaWith subscription, search isn't important for any story you are already following (because you have notifications), and it encourages folk to share story URLs to others so they can subscribe.15:56
Zarawe should distinguish between subscriptions themselves and notifications when things happen to subscribed resources15:56
Zarasubscriptions are up.15:56
Zaranotifications do come up in recent events15:57
Zaraemail notifications aren't up yet.15:57
Zaraand I think the notifications that come up in 'recent events' don't apply to every change one can make to the subscribed resource15:59
ZaraI'm wondering if we should say that 'notification' is the main thing to focus on, or if we're best just looking at emails specifically15:59
ZaraI think the goal matters more and we'd be better off looking at notification in general.16:00
Zara(I think this is currently recent events on the dashboard and email notifications)16:02
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Zaraso my vague map for notifications would be: 1) email notifications when subscribed resources update-- these should be configurable to avoid spam (configuration options need to be decided). 2) recent events should update in a useful way when subscribed resources update (this needs fleshing out-- what time period is 'recent'? (ie: how long should an event display for? presumably we want multiple events to display... under what conditions16:12
ZaraI suspect the code for these is quite entwined atm.16:12
Zaralots of brackets because I am a terrible person16:13
ZaraI don't know where to start with configuration options for emails, but it seems like the sensible place to start.16:14
ZaraI suppose we would need to decide what got configured, make the filters functional, and have a way for a user to choose them.16:15
betherlysorry for disappearing for a while there16:16
Zaraas far as the last point goes, there's already a 'preferences' area in the UX for timeline events, so that seems like the place to put the options.16:16
Zarano worries16:16
ZaraI just rambled16:16
betherlythat all seems good to me tbh16:16
betherlydo you want to write that up in an etherpad or something?16:17
persiaLet's use the StoryBoard wiki.16:17
betherlyah yes sorry persia you mentioned that earlier my bad16:17
betherly#memoryissues #oldbeforemytime16:18
persiabetherly: No worries: I just find the proliferation of etherpads increasingly hard to follow :)16:18
persiaThey are great for live sessions because it supports multiple simultaneous edits better, but less ideal for longer-lived things.16:18
Zaraheh, I was just working things out on paper (well, irc) but recording it will stop things from getting lost in the meantime16:18
betherlyyep :)16:19
ZaraI work things out by discussing them with myself at length on irc and distracting everyone, it's great16:19
betherlyhaha :D16:20
Zarais this enough to be getting on with, or is it worth rambling some more before we put it up?16:21
persiaI think that's enough for notifications.16:23
persiaI also want tags to work: the mess a few days ago when a tag was added making the story unreadable was very unfortunate.  Even if tags don't work right, making them not dangerous would be good.16:24
Zaraokay, I think we'll find the first step to getting there (re: notifications) is to work out how timeline events currently work, where they intersect with email notifications atm.16:24
Zarapersia: I agree with you but I can't focus on lots of things at a time. so if I look at making tags not-dangerous, I can't look at notifications.16:26
Zaraso deciding on a priority between those two things would be good, or allocating different people to different areas.16:27
persiaFair.  Go with proximate objectives :)16:27
Zarathis is the whole trouble, hahaha. everything needs doing! :)16:28
Zaraworklists and boards work will still be ongoing in the background, but the requirements are relatively clear so I'm less concerned about that.16:30
Zaraideally I'd love to have everyone focussed on one feature at a time, together, but I think that's unrealistic.16:30
persiaEveryone does things for their own motivations, but yes, alignment can help make milestones get hit faster.16:33
* Zara wonders where to put discussion so far on the wiki16:34
Zarathere's a roadmap but it's very longterm and high-level16:34
Zara(eg: 'feature: tags'16:34
Zaranotifications were listed under 'final polish' in there.16:36
Zarathat also maps changes to versions of storyboard, so we should probably get back to versioning it (I think that got lost)16:36
persiaJust rearrange the page to map more closely to reality16:37
persiaAnd put the details either as sub-points or on detail pages.16:37
Zaraokay, I've started by putting hte irc conversation so far into other docs/notifications so we don't lose it16:40
ZaraI should be able to work it into something resembling a spec.16:40
persiaDon't forget the potential to link to eavesdrop :)16:41
Zaraone reason I haven't altered the roadmap so far is that it's a good source of 'who knows about what' (eg: it suggests that Nikita knows about tags)16:42
Zarait's possible he might be able to help with a quick fix there where none of the rest of us could.16:43
persia1) Wikis have history, 2) it may be useful to encode that information in a different way anyway16:43
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