| *** slaweq_ is now known as slaweq | 14:09 | |
| *** dasm|off is now known as dasm | 14:10 | |
| gmann | tc-members: weekly meeting here in ~5 min from now | 15:54 |
|---|---|---|
| knikolla[m] | thanks for the ping gmann , i haven't updated my calendar yet :) | 15:55 |
| gmann | ohk :) | 16:00 |
| gmann | #startmeeting tc | 16:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Wed Nov 9 16:00:09 2022 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 16:00 |
| gmann | tc-members: meeting time | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:00 |
| dansmith | o/ | 16:00 |
| noonedeadpunk | o/ | 16:00 |
| gmann | #topic Roll call | 16:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 16:00 |
| knikolla[m] | o/ | 16:00 |
| arne_wiebalck | o/ | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | I am lurking as usual. | 16:00 |
| gmann | +1, thanks | 16:00 |
| rosmaita | o/ | 16:00 |
| * noonedeadpunk on trip right now so semi-around but will do my best to follow/be active when needed | 16:01 | |
| gmann | two member informed in Absence section and can not to join today meeting - Slawek Kaplonski (slaweq) - 10.11.2022 | 16:01 |
| gmann | Jay Faulkner (JayF) - 2022-11-09 | 16:01 |
| gmann | let's start | 16:02 |
| gmann | today agenda #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda_Suggestions | 16:02 |
| gmann | #topic Follow up on past action items | 16:03 |
| gmann | gmann to test the meetpad for video call | 16:03 |
| gmann | that is done and it did not show up good for recording and we can go with the zoom option. | 16:03 |
| noonedeadpunk | well we kind of tested I believe? | 16:03 |
| gmann | yes | 16:03 |
| noonedeadpunk | yeah. let's go for gaining zoom room | 16:04 |
| clarkb | gmann: and to clarify you used recordrtc? | 16:04 |
| gmann | I will contact foundation first if they can provide otherwise JayF also volutneer to use his account | 16:04 |
| dansmith | clarkb: recordrtc is client-side yeah? | 16:05 |
| gmann | clarkb: I think so, it was client side one present in meetup window | 16:05 |
| clarkb | gmann: recordrtc is client side. I don't believe it shows up in meetpad direclty | 16:05 |
| clarkb | the functionality in meetpad itself is not enabled (server side) | 16:05 |
| gmann | I used the button present in meetpad | 16:06 |
| noonedeadpunk | clarkb: it does fwiw | 16:06 |
| clarkb | ok I'll have to look at it more closely then. Maybe they added client side using recordrtc. Fwiw my suggestions was that you use the browser plugin instead. | 16:06 |
| gmann | ok | 16:07 |
| gmann | next action item is - JayF to propose the resolution for the TC weekly meeting on IRC or video call | 16:07 |
| gmann | he proposed the resolution #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/863685 | 16:07 |
| gmann | if anyone have not looked or reviewed, please do and leave your feedback/vote there | 16:08 |
| noonedeadpunk | We can try browser plugin actually.... Nasty thing would be if someone else would be to record, then this knowledge should be transfered, but I do hate idea of using someones personal/corporate account tbh | 16:08 |
| dansmith | client-side seems unideal to me, because we lose the recording if that person gets bumped off | 16:08 |
| knikolla[m] | that's why i want us to try to get the opendev zoom first for this. | 16:09 |
| gmann | foundation account if we get should be ok like we use it for PTG or so | 16:09 |
| dansmith | since the recording is important for the transparency aspect, it would be bad to lose that.. using a proper tool with server-side recording seems better to me | 16:09 |
| fungi | there is no opendev zoom, not sure what you meant there | 16:09 |
| noonedeadpunk | how we handle ptgs? | 16:09 |
| rosmaita | fungi: what about the ptg? | 16:09 |
| gmann | yeah, recording is needed if we are meeting in video call | 16:09 |
| gmann | noonedeadpunk: rosmaita you mean foundation account | 16:10 |
| fungi | rosmaita: those zoom rooms are provided by the foundation staff, not part of opendev | 16:10 |
| gmann | yeah | 16:10 |
| knikolla[m] | (foundation, not opendev, my mistake :) ) | 16:10 |
| fungi | but maybe people aren't all that clear on the distinction between the openinfra foundation and the opendev collaboratory | 16:10 |
| rosmaita | i will admit that i am not | 16:10 |
| gmann | let me check with foundation and update us. | 16:10 |
| noonedeadpunk | I'm confused from time to time as welll | 16:11 |
| rosmaita | ok, so what we are talking about is the "openinfra foundation zoom account" | 16:11 |
| gmann | yes | 16:12 |
| gmann | that is what used in PTGs also | 16:12 |
| rosmaita | ok, so much as i despise zoom and all it represents, i think that if we use an openinfra foundation zoom account for meeting and recording and auto-transcribing, we are cool | 16:12 |
| fungi | except for teams which choose to use other videoconferencing tools for their ptg sessions (opendev's meetpad service, bluejeans, their own zoom accounts, et cetera) | 16:12 |
| gmann | yeah | 16:13 |
| gmann | rosmaita: sure, i am not sure about auto-transcribing which did not came well in google meet but we can try in zoom too | 16:13 |
| fungi | but the foundation event organizers do temporarily provide a set of zoom rooms during the event for teams which want to use those | 16:13 |
| fungi | note that they don't keep those zoom rooms indefinitely, they pay for them for a limited period of time | 16:14 |
| fungi | so it's not the same as , say, a room you'd use for a recurring meeting | 16:14 |
| rosmaita | yeah, the auto-transcribing may be a stretch, but i was in some kind of meeting software recently and it worked pretty well | 16:14 |
| gmann | sure, we can try. | 16:14 |
| gmann | fungi: ack, let me check if any permanent zoom can be shared with TC. obviously we will not ask to buy/add new one. | 16:15 |
| gmann | ok moving one.. those were the two action item. let me add zoom one also | 16:16 |
| gmann | #action gmann to check with foundation about zoom pro account if any and can be shared with TC monthly video call | 16:16 |
| gmann | #topic Gate health check | 16:16 |
| fungi | when diablo_rojo's around, she may have more input on zoom room options (i don't have a zoom account but i know she does) | 16:16 |
| gmann | any news on gate? | 16:16 |
| gmann | sure | 16:17 |
| dansmith | I haven't seen any repeatable gate failures lately | 16:18 |
| dansmith | some instability, but never the same thing twice, so.. I guess that's good? :) | 16:18 |
| gmann | nice. same here | 16:18 |
| gmann | m-1 is approaching next week and as decided we will be switching the devstack/tempest/tox base jobs to Jammy. and given enough time to projects for testing and fix the issue I think it will be good timing to do that. | 16:18 |
| gmann | but that time we might see more gate broken if projects have not given much attention to it | 16:19 |
| fungi | we had a few jobs start failing after the opendev default nodeset change to jammy | 16:19 |
| gmann | any other updates on gate health? | 16:19 |
| gmann | fungi: ohk, in openstack? I thought we had openstack base jobs using ndoeset exolicitly | 16:20 |
| fungi | most of those were related to bindep.txt files in projects still including python-dev for ubuntu (without limiting to older platforms where python 2.7 was still available) | 16:20 |
| fungi | they were mainly one-off job definitions in various openstack projects | 16:20 |
| clarkb | fungi: additionally those projects had long ago dropped python2 support but were still listing it as a dependency | 16:20 |
| fungi | right, it was basically just cruft they needed to clean up in their bindep files | 16:21 |
| clarkb | fungi: so the bug was introduced when python2 was dropped and not caught until ubnutu changed its python2 package name | 16:21 |
| gmann | yeah, I observed that in many projects and tempest plugin too | 16:21 |
| fungi | some stable branch jobs also started failing because they didn't declare a specific nodeset, but i think most of those have been addressed now | 16:21 |
| gmann | that is easy fix though | 16:21 |
| gmann | ok | 16:22 |
| gmann | we will be getting more failure when devstack and tox based openstack jobs switching but lets see | 16:23 |
| gmann | moving to next topic | 16:23 |
| gmann | #topic TC chair election process | 16:23 |
| gmann | I updated the patch for dir structure and it is ready to re-review #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/862772 | 16:23 |
| gmann | that is all on this unless anyone has anything to discuss then just check in review? | 16:24 |
| gmann | #topic TC stop using storyboard? | 16:25 |
| gmann | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/project/923 | 16:25 |
| rosmaita | i have to admit, i was unaware that the TC used storyboard | 16:25 |
| dansmith | hah | 16:25 |
| gmann | TC has project in SB which i think not used for couple of years. At least I have not and tracked TC tasks in etherpad tracker which is much easy | 16:26 |
| gmann | yeah, I am not surprise if many member not even know about it | 16:26 |
| dansmith | so stop using and not replace it with anything? sounds fine to me :) | 16:26 |
| gmann | yeah, I do not think we need LP for governance things. | 16:26 |
| fungi | doug set it up as central to the cross-project goal tracking process years ago, but the tc changed its process | 16:26 |
| gmann | we started storyboard to track the goal work mainly | 16:26 |
| noonedeadpunk | I'd vote for stopping using storyboard | 16:26 |
| gmann | and many open tasks/story in governance if for goal which never got updated | 16:27 |
| jungleboyj | Given that we didn't know we were in storyboard ... | 16:27 |
| gmann | so I feel that it is not much use of goal tracked in SB | 16:27 |
| arne_wiebalck | jungleboyj: ++ | 16:27 |
| fungi | to be fair, the tc has already stopped using sb for quite a long time. what can additionally be done is to drop the use-storyboard flag for that repo in project-config and then i'll toggle the project entry in sb to inactive which should hide it from the new task field/searches | 16:28 |
| gmann | I cleaned up many story which work was done but SB was not updated | 16:28 |
| rosmaita | fungi: that sounds good | 16:28 |
| gmann | yeah, we need to clear it and make explicit that TC not using SB | 16:28 |
| fungi | also you may need to do some documentation/readme updates in the governance repo itself if it mentions to track stuff there | 16:29 |
| fungi | probably worth a git grep in openstack/governance | 16:29 |
| jungleboyj | fungi: ++ That sounds like a reasonable plan. | 16:29 |
| gmann | we are missing 3 tc-members today, I will keep it open for next week where we can have formal vote on the decision. do not wan to rush as it is not adding any more work on us than it is currently | 16:29 |
| dansmith | yeah, very low priority | 16:30 |
| gmann | meanwhile I will cleanup the open story too | 16:30 |
| gmann | anything else on this topic? | 16:30 |
| rosmaita | nope | 16:30 |
| gmann | #topic (added late) 'service' role status | 16:31 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/keystone-specs/+/818616/ | 16:31 |
| rosmaita | yeah, i was just wondering if there's anything we can do to help this along | 16:31 |
| rosmaita | Abhishek has volunteered to do the implementation | 16:31 |
| gmann | I have updated the spec with what we discussed in PTG and abhishek volunteer to implement it which is good | 16:31 |
| gmann | +1 | 16:31 |
| rosmaita | so it's mainly a matter of getting the spec approved | 16:31 |
| gmann | yeah, I will bring it in keystone meeting too but knikolla[m] if you can also have a look | 16:32 |
| knikolla[m] | i'll review that today | 16:32 |
| rosmaita | gmann: yes, your updates have been nice | 16:32 |
| rosmaita | knikolla[m]: thanks! | 16:32 |
| gmann | perfect, thanks knikolla[m] | 16:32 |
| knikolla[m] | we're up to 3 active keystone cores finally, so things will move a bit more slowly. (up from 1 earlier this year) | 16:32 |
| knikolla[m] | quickly* | 16:32 |
| noonedeadpunk | nice | 16:32 |
| jungleboyj | \o/ | 16:33 |
| rosmaita | \o/ | 16:33 |
| gmann | +1, nice | 16:33 |
| gmann | #topic Recurring tasks check | 16:34 |
| gmann | Bare 'recheck' state | 16:34 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/recheck-weekly-summary | 16:34 |
| dansmith | I assume no update because we're missing slaweq, but I will say I think we've made a positive contribution by focusing on this | 16:34 |
| gmann | slaweq is not here today and I did not see this week summary in etherpad so skipping it which is ok | 16:34 |
| dansmith | I see far more "recheck because reason" than bare rechecks lately | 16:35 |
| gmann | yeah, many projects also conveying it in their weekly meeting or so | 16:35 |
| dansmith | hopefully people are actually looking, or at least feeling guilty about lying, but.. I think this was a good effort for us | 16:35 |
| dansmith | yes, that goo | 16:35 |
| dansmith | *too | 16:35 |
| gmann | ++ agree | 16:35 |
| gmann | encouraging more people to debug the failure help overall CI?CD | 16:36 |
| gmann | CI/CD | 16:36 |
| dansmith | yeah | 16:36 |
| rosmaita | ++ | 16:36 |
| dansmith | maybe too hopeful to think this is why the gate is more stable lately, but.. it certainly can't hurt | 16:36 |
| gmann | it definitely contributed to the gate stability | 16:37 |
| gmann | #topic Open Reviews | 16:38 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open | 16:38 |
| gmann | ^^ open review, let me check if any pending one we have not talked about or ready to review | 16:38 |
| gmann | I think most of are already discussed or waiting for depends-on | 16:39 |
| gmann | ok, that is all from agenda today and we have ~21 min left. anything else to discuss ? | 16:39 |
| rosmaita | i can give a translations update | 16:39 |
| gmann | cool please go ahead | 16:39 |
| rosmaita | i may have left the impression last week that Weblate would host openstack translations for free | 16:40 |
| rosmaita | i met with their community manager earlier this week and that's not the case because we are so big | 16:40 |
| rosmaita | they are willing to give us a 50% discount, though | 16:40 |
| rosmaita | which would be 1500 euros/year | 16:41 |
| gmann | ohk, I was also thinking it was freee | 16:41 |
| rosmaita | yeah, i sort of was, too, but i was mistaken | 16:41 |
| dansmith | whoa | 16:41 |
| jungleboyj | :-( | 16:41 |
| gmann | rosmaita: do we know how much volume they can do it for free? if we decrease our translation to minimum required one? | 16:41 |
| fungi | the main issue was the 10k string limit, right? | 16:42 |
| rosmaita | no, because it's measured in terms of "source strings", not number of translations | 16:42 |
| gmann | ohk | 16:42 |
| fungi | so we'd have to stop translating some (parts of) projects and docs | 16:42 |
| rosmaita | basically something like that | 16:43 |
| rosmaita | i didn't ask about that, though | 16:43 |
| gmann | yeah and even the number of language | 16:43 |
| fungi | but also it's worth discussing with the foundation if we can get the cost of the service covered | 16:43 |
| gmann | humm but will it worth to ask foundation about it? | 16:43 |
| fungi | the number of languages was in the acceptable range, if i read the response correctly | 16:43 |
| rosmaita | yeah, because it's got to be costing us something in terms of running the current zenata infrastructure | 16:44 |
| gmann | I feel like anyone need those translation should come and help with tooling and maintenance | 16:44 |
| fungi | the main thing the zanata infrastructure is costing us is risk | 16:44 |
| rosmaita | yeah, apparently both Fedora and the Document Foundation (Libre Office) have moved from Zenata to Weblate | 16:45 |
| fungi | the servers are donated by rackspace currently, and other than maybe rebooting it if it crashes and the risk that we might not be able to easily rebuild it if something happens to it, there's no monetary cost for the zanata server at present (just risk) | 16:45 |
| rosmaita | rackspace++ | 16:46 |
| gmann | I think we should put a question in user survey that translation now onwards need cost and if you are using it are you ok to help there? | 16:46 |
| rosmaita | what would be the correct way to approach the Foundation about this? | 16:46 |
| gmann | not sure if we have asked it already? | 16:46 |
| rosmaita | gmann: we have that in the 2023 survey, but won't have the answers for quite a while | 16:47 |
| gmann | rosmaita: but we have to decide first that it is mandatory things for openstack and has to be sponsored by foundation. | 16:47 |
| gmann | rosmaita: ok | 16:47 |
| jungleboyj | gmann: That isn't a bad idea. Would be interesting to see how many people are using translations. | 16:48 |
| gmann | I feel like if anyone need it then they should step up for help | 16:48 |
| rosmaita | well, we could do a more immediate survey using some open source survey tool to get this info ... if users know how dire the situation is, they may step up | 16:49 |
| gmann | yeah that can be helpful | 16:49 |
| rosmaita | ok, the holdup last time was a tool accessible worldwide | 16:49 |
| rosmaita | anyone have any suggestions? | 16:50 |
| fungi | limesurvey.org isn't accessible worldwide? | 16:50 |
| rosmaita | dunno, have not tried it | 16:50 |
| rosmaita | (checking now) | 16:50 |
| gmann | rosmaita: also, did we send email to community ML where many users group are(or used to be) #link http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community | 16:51 |
| fungi | we ran an instance of limesurvey in opendev for years because it gave us the ability to accept sensitive answers without involving a third party, but nobody ever used it so we eventually retired it, but you can also use their public instance | 16:52 |
| rosmaita | ok, https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedinchina/ says limesurvey.org is OK | 16:52 |
| gmann | cool | 16:53 |
| gmann | rosmaita: as we need to take some decision on this, please continue with the survey and getting more info. Let me add this as a separate topic for our meeting. | 16:53 |
| rosmaita | ok, i will take an action item to hack together something before the next TC meeting that we can all look at | 16:53 |
| gmann | it that ok for you? | 16:53 |
| gmann | sure | 16:54 |
| rosmaita | yes | 16:54 |
| gmann | #action rosmaita to continue his research/survey on translation things and update in TC meetings | 16:54 |
| gmann | thanks rosmaita for working on this | 16:54 |
| rosmaita | np | 16:54 |
| gmann | anything else to discuss ? | 16:54 |
| fungi | tc-members (and everyone else too!): don't forget there's a videoconference meeting scheduled between the openstack community and members of the openinfra board of directors in one week, wednesday 2022-11-16 at 20:00-21:00 utc | 16:54 |
| rosmaita | thanks for the reminder, i had completely forgotten | 16:55 |
| fungi | we booked it months ago so people can't say they didn't know far enough in advance ;) | 16:55 |
| gmann | ++, it is after out TC meeting | 16:55 |
| fungi | it's a few hours after the tc meeting, but yes after | 16:55 |
| gmann | are we continuing old ether pad for that or new one? | 16:55 |
| fungi | there is a new etherpad for the new discussion | 16:56 |
| fungi | it's linked from the old one, but i can find it | 16:56 |
| fungi | just a sec | 16:56 |
| rosmaita | fungi: any connection info on that meeting yet? | 16:56 |
| gmann | can you please paste the link here | 16:56 |
| gmann | ok | 16:56 |
| rosmaita | fungi: forget my question ... just realized that the calendar invite was one that i made myself | 16:57 |
| gmann | this ? #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2022-11-board-openstack-sync | 16:58 |
| gmann | I think so | 16:58 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2022-11-board-openstack-sync | 16:59 |
| fungi | yes, sorry i had to dig it out of the list archive | 16:59 |
| gmann | tc-members: feel free to propose the topic you would like to cover in this meeting with Board. we have few topic going on from berlin summit board meeting which we can continue too | 16:59 |
| fungi | TheJulia will presumably send connection info in advance | 16:59 |
| fungi | we'll add it to the etherpad when it's available | 16:59 |
| gmann | cool | 16:59 |
| rosmaita | thanks! | 17:00 |
| gmann | thanks for reminding it | 17:00 |
| gmann | we are on time. let's close the meeting | 17:00 |
| gmann | thanks everyone for joining | 17:00 |
| rosmaita | bye! | 17:00 |
| gmann | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Wed Nov 9 17:00:36 2022 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-11-09-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-11-09-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-11-09-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
| TheJulia | I, unfortunately, have been absurdly busy and have not had a chance to get time scheduled. | 17:00 |
| arne_wiebalck | thanks gmann ! | 17:01 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks gmann ! | 17:06 |
| fungi | TheJulia: no worries, once you have the connection info i'll add it (we already booked the time at least, so just need to know where we're joining) | 17:06 |
| clarkb | rosmaita: noonedeadpunk: OpenDev is a community run effort to build, maintain, and host developer tools needed to build software like OpenStack collaboratively in the open. The foundation employs a couple of us that work on this stuff, but OpenDev is community run and includes people from other employers and backgrounds. | 17:13 |
| clarkb | We'd love it if more people got involved and took on more ownership of the things they rely on. The translation migration stuff is a great example of this happening, thank you rosmaita for pushing that along | 17:13 |
| TheJulia | fungi: oh, cool. Yeah, that is easy I guess. Please remind me on Monday | 17:14 |
| fungi | TheJulia: will do! | 17:15 |
| clarkb | rosmaita: noonedeadpunk: importantly when it comes to things like Zoom the OpenDev team is committed to running/consuming/maintaing open source sfotware itself. Zoom is not that and we don't do anything with it | 17:18 |
| clarkb | Our meetpad server is a jitsi meet install which is open source. The reason it does not have server side recording is that someone needs to update our deployment to include the jibri component (this does video recording) and figure out how to scale it (it does not scale by default so someone could use all the jibri slots and DoS your meeting recording) | 17:19 |
| *** dasm is now known as dasm|offp | 23:03 | |
| *** dasm|offp is now known as dasm|off | 23:03 | |
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