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| gmann | frickler: spotz: knikolla : yes, if more than 4 member from Redhat then result will be defer by the Board of directors and it will be discussed there. | 16:14 |
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| fungi | and the likely outcome from such a discussion is that the tc members affiliated with rh determine amongst themselves which two will step down | 16:41 |
| gmann | or its time to change the bylaw or a exception motion to approve more member from one affiliation. at least that is needed now or near future by seeing the overall contribution diversity in community. | 16:42 |
| fungi | the reason for that limit is so that an employer can't order their employees to majority vote for a tc resolution and have it pass even though all tc members who aren't employed by them are opposed. they wouldn't be able to force a charter change through without a 2/3 majority of course, but 6 out of 9 (as currently implied) would be able to do that too | 16:48 |
| gmann | yeah, which is same on code merge too where 60% of core reviewer are from Red hat. this is what we presented to Board in Berlin meeting. Less diversity in merging code is not good from community perspective. | 16:53 |
| fungi | agreed, but i'm not sure altering the foundation bylaws in order to allow rh employees the ability to rewrite the tc charter is an improvement on that | 16:54 |
| gmann | solution here is to improve the diversity at least at that level when we wrote these bylaw or other community power rules and that will be welcome if any idea on tat | 16:55 |
| gmann | that | 16:55 |
| fungi | yes, specifically that limit was added to the bylaws in the beginning, in anticipation preventing of this exact situation | 16:56 |
| gmann | anyways let's discuss it in Board as this is good example/alert for this less Diversity issue | 16:56 |
| fungi | well, discuss it with the board, and also with every news outlet that isn't yet convinced openstack no longer exists, anyway. "red hat employees ask for majority control of openstack governance" is probably the most favorable headline we can expect if we go this route | 16:58 |
| gmann | not this situation but the situation where one company becoming more powerful than other contributors company but current situation is "One company only becoming the only contributors and other company are disappeared " | 16:58 |
| fungi | once one company has majority control of a project, there is also the risk that they can choose to exclude contributions from their competitors, further eroding diversity of affiliation | 16:59 |
| gmann | situation is different here, one company handling maximum of work so either we need to ask them 'Not to work in OpenStack' or soften or process/rule to allow them to do and keep community healthy | 16:59 |
| gmann | * soften our | 16:59 |
| gmann | one company only has maximum control on projects in current situation, that is what we presented in board meeting | 17:00 |
| fungi | i think you're using the contributor diversity problem to distract from the risks associated with abandoning limits on governance diversity. we have one problem, and you're saying let's make it two problems, for consistency | 17:01 |
| gmann | its same problem, we have less contributors diversity and so does less diversity in governance. | 17:01 |
| gmann | either have less TC member due to this reason but till when, we might end up having only 3-4 TC in coming years. | 17:02 |
| fungi | we have less diversity in candidates for governance, but you're proposing we turn that into less diversity for the governance itself | 17:02 |
| fungi | frickler: checking foundation profile data, it looks like it would be 5 affiliated with red hat rather than 6. the other 4 on the tc (assuming no new candidates) would be from cern, city network, mass open cloud, and nec | 17:23 |
| fungi | is one of the candidates or continuing tc members not listed with the correct affiliation in the foundation db? | 17:24 |
| spotz | No I think it would make 5 from RH, I did think if any more we'd need to do something | 19:23 |
| fungi | well, 5/9=0.56 which is >=0.5, so that's still a problem from a bylaws perspective | 19:24 |
| fungi | if all 5 rh employees voted for a resolution and all 4 non-rh employees voted against, it would pass on strict majority | 19:25 |
| spotz | Le me send out the voting reminder, maybe we'll get another candidate. We could have a vote for the 2 RH candidates anyway but would have an empty seat | 19:26 |
| fungi | if we get additional non-rh candidates, the bylaws suggest selecting the highest-ranked candidate from another affiliation in place of the lowest-ranked affiliated candidate | 19:26 |
| fungi | (in case all the affiliated candidates ended up ranking higher) | 19:26 |
| spotz | fungi yeah that I know I'm saying contigencies if there isn't another one | 19:27 |
| fungi | i also sent up an emergency flare on the ml a bit ago and referred folks to the announcements you sent | 19:27 |
| spotz | 2 unmerged PTL noms, no new TC. Diong a pull so I can send out the 2 day reminder | 19:28 |
| gmann | spotz: yeah, +1 on email reminder and mention the TC things about single affiliation too. | 19:45 |
| gmann | spotz: btw how may Project left without nomination? | 19:45 |
| spotz | gmann it says 17, but I've got 2 unmerged noms | 19:46 |
| spotz | I referred folks to read fungi | 19:46 |
| spotz | s earlier email | 19:46 |
| fungi | om nom noms | 19:47 |
| spotz | One on the list has the open DPL patch too | 19:47 |
| gmann | spotz: basically 9 | 19:47 |
| gmann | 9 project left considering DPL + invalid nomination + 2 unmerged | 19:48 |
| gmann | dmendiza[m]: ping for keystone PTL nomination | 19:48 |
| gmann | and barbican too | 19:48 |
| spotz | gmann: and Barbican, I have talked to him already | 19:49 |
| gmann | cool +1 | 19:49 |
| gmann | timburke_: ^^ for swift PTL? | 19:50 |
| gmann | I sent email about Venus but no response yet. skyline PTL nominated but still no nomination for Venus | 19:51 |
| timburke_ | 👍 was gonna get to it; thanks for the reminder | 19:56 |
| spotz | thanks timburke_ | 19:57 |
| gmann | thanks timburke_ | 19:59 |
| opendevreview | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/election master: Remove DPL model projects from PTL election https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/855981 | 20:02 |
| gmann | spotz: knikolla jungleboyj ^^ this will remove DPL model projects from election, will help in counting exact projects without nomination | 20:03 |
| spotz | Ok I'm going back to my day off | 20:07 |
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