Thursday, 2022-02-10

*** ykarel is now known as ykarel|away12:23
*** pojadhav is now known as pojadhav|afk13:53
spotz_Hey belmoreira 14:58
belmoreirahi14:58
gmanntc-members: meeting time15:00
gmann#startmeeting tc15:00
opendevmeetMeeting started Thu Feb 10 15:00:10 2022 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
opendevmeetUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
opendevmeetThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'15:00
gmann#topic Roll call15:00
dansmithbelmoreira: you around after the meeting to chat about release cycle?15:00
gmanno/15:00
dansmitho/15:00
spotz_O/15:00
belmoreirao/15:00
belmoreiradansmith yes, I can stay longer15:00
dansmithcool15:00
jungleboyjo/15:00
yoctozeptoo/15:01
ricolino/15:01
dmendiza[m]\o15:01
diablo_rojo_phoneO/15:01
gmann#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee15:02
gmann^^ agenda for today meeting15:02
gmannabsent members: Rico Lin (ricolin), Chinese New Year vacation15:02
gmannlet's start15:02
gmann#topic Follow up on past action items15:03
ricolinthat's a mistake:)15:03
ricolinI'm presented:)15:03
gmannricolin: ohk, nice15:03
gmannsorry i missed to remove it from there may be15:03
ricolinNP15:03
gmannno action item to track from previous meeting #link https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-02-03-15.00.html15:04
gmann#topic Gate health check15:04
gmannwhat's news on gate this  week15:04
dansmithI've seen some instability this week, I dunno about others15:04
dansmithI haven't collected any hard data, but I've seen a lot of 'recheck cinder' type things15:05
dansmithI'll try to pay more attention over the next week and see if I can report any patterns15:05
gmannok15:05
gmannthere is volume detach issue occurring 100% on centos9 stream job15:06
gmann#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/196034615:06
gmannand neutron stable gate got broken due to tempest change which is also fixed now and green15:06
gmannand centos8-stream is still unstable and jobs are non voting.15:07
gmann*centos8-stream jobs15:07
yoctozeptowell, without "jobs" it's probably still true ;-)15:08
fungiwe also restored the centos-8 nodeset temporarily, pointing it at centos-8-stream labels, because the nodeset removal deadlocked cleanup in jobs which relied on it15:09
yoctozeptooh my15:09
gmannhumm15:09
fungithough we're looking at a more obvious alternative so that jobs using the centos-8 nodeset will return node_failure results (therefore no risk that they succeed, but still won't block cleanup changes)15:10
gmannthere are stable branch jobs using the nodeset and we could not remove it from devstack but I will give another try with fixes on stable branches 15:10
spotz_Fungi could those nodes be told to use stream repos?15:11
yoctozeptofungi: that sounds sensible15:11
fungithe basic problem is that if you have a job which relies on a nodeset, and that nodeset is no longer defined, you can't merge a change to remove the job or alter its nodeset15:11
spotz_Ouch15:11
yoctozeptozuul's quirk15:11
fungibecause zuul expects the initial state it's going to compare the change against to have resolveable configuration15:12
gmannyeah, do we have list of how many jobs using it. I know few of the cinder stable/victoria 15:12
fungii'm not sure if anyone has put anything together, no15:13
fungii know jrosser was trying to work through a bunch of cleanup for it in openstack-ansible repos15:13
gmannk, I will work on devstack side to remvove the node and see how many we can cleanup on that15:13
gmannnova side I fixed but still need more to fix15:14
gmannanything else on gate?15:15
gmann#topic Z Release Cycle Name15:16
gmannranked names are under trademark checks by foundation. may be we should be ready by next week15:16
yoctozeptohopefully Zen passes15:16
jungleboyjAny feeling for what the result will be?15:17
gmannZombie :)15:17
belmoreira:)15:17
dansmithheh15:17
* jungleboyj laughs15:17
spotz_It has grown on me15:17
jungleboyjZen or Zombie?15:17
spotz_Zombie15:18
yoctozeptolol15:18
jungleboyj:-)  15:18
jungleboyjQuote of the day 'Zombie is growing on me.'15:18
spotz_Hehe15:18
yoctozeptoon spotz_*15:18
yoctozeptoanyhow, I guess gmann please continue15:19
gmann:)15:19
gmannon the release name, belmoreira will you be able to put the new name process up for review what we discussed in last PTG ? or let us know if you need help.15:19
belmoreirasure. I think is consensual that we just restart the alphabet. Or someone as a different opinion?15:20
yoctozeptotbh, I wanted to switch to years15:21
fungiwe'll also need to scramble to update the election repo during campaigning, to swap out the z placeholder for whatever name is selected15:21
dansmithas opposed to what? start with the klingon alphabet?15:21
dansmithoh years15:21
yoctozeptoyeah15:21
gmann20xx.1 &  20xx.2 ?15:21
yoctozeptoor with months, like ubuntu15:22
yoctozeptoboth are fine15:22
dansmithwell, if we go with a tick/tock release cycle,15:22
dansmithwe could also get more creative with the .1 and .2 so they're meaningful15:22
dansmithbut yeah, I'm not opposed to years at all15:23
belmoreirahonestly I like the idea... but we lose the fun of naming the release15:23
yoctozepto2022.duck 2022.yeah15:23
dansmiththe names all kinda blend together now, and I do love knowing that my 12.04 machine is almost ten years old :D15:23
belmoreiraor we keep the relase name as well, like ubuntu15:23
dansmithyeah15:23
yoctozeptobelmoreira: yeah15:23
gmannI like that <year>.<name> ?15:24
gmannor like ubuntu 15:24
diablo_rojo_phoneYeah that sounds good. 15:24
belmoreirabut in that case we don't need to be attached to the alphabet (following the letters...)15:24
knikollaI have to confess I had to google the alphabet to completely remember the order of those last few letters (hi all :)15:24
gmannbut single name not double 15:24
gmannknikolla: hi.15:24
diablo_rojo_phoneknikolla: I often still have to sing the song to myself lol15:24
belmoreiragmann :)15:24
jungleboyj:-)15:25
dansmithgmann: or, make it harder:15:25
yoctozeptoalphabet song ftw15:25
dansmithall names after this have to be a single word with the proper repeated letter15:25
dansmithaardvark for example15:25
dansmithB will be a challenge15:25
spotz_I like names they’re fun15:25
yoctozeptolol15:25
dansmithBubble, Bobble15:25
dansmithCapuccino 15:25
yoctozeptoyeah, names are fun15:25
jungleboyjI don't think we want to remove the name aspect.15:25
jungleboyjIf we append the year that is fine with me.15:25
belmoreirajungleboyj +115:26
dansmithwe technically have version numbers now, which I can never remember,15:26
jungleboyjOr pre-pend I should say.15:26
gmannok, let's put it for review and then we can discuss more ideas too along with the one we discussed now15:26
dansmithso switching to years will likely involve some work by people I imagine15:26
belmoreirabut do you think we need to follow the alphabet if we have the year?15:26
yoctozeptowe can forget the alphabet song then15:26
yoctozeptolet people propose names they feel are current15:27
yoctozeptolike15:27
jungleboyjI personally like keeping the alphabet as it keeps the feeling of progression.15:27
yoctozeptoOpenStack Covid Edition15:27
yoctozepto2022.1015:27
spotz_Are we just going to confuse everyone!15:27
knikollaI feel names bring a sense of community with the voting process15:28
jungleboyjspotz_:  I think that is a legitimate concern.15:28
jungleboyjknikolla:  ++15:28
yoctozeptoI dunno, the year would be just fine for me15:28
gmannknikolla: +115:28
dansmithknikolla: except we don't do it anymore :)15:28
dansmithI mean, lately.15:28
yoctozeptoyeah15:28
gmannI like year followed by elected name but yeah let's put those ideas we discussed today and then we can continue discussion in gerrit ?15:29
yoctozepto+115:29
gmannand if we go with the voting system then we will change that from TC to community members15:30
belmoreira+115:30
gmannbelmoreira: is it fine to add action item for you?15:30
jungleboyj+115:30
belmoreiragmann sure15:30
gmann#action belmoreira to propose the next release naming ideas 15:30
gmannbelmoreira: thanks15:30
gmann#topic Z cycle Technical Elections15:31
gmannnomination for PTL and TC are open and until 15th Feb15:31
gmann#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2022-February/027117.html15:32
gmanntill now we have only 5 PTL and 1 TC nomination 15:32
gmannyoctozepto: belmoreira : announced that they are not running TC in next term. 15:32
gmannthanks again both of you for your contribution. 15:32
gmannbut as you know until this election is over you are in TC term or you re-decide to serve next term too :)15:33
spotz_Hehe15:33
jungleboyjYou can't get away that quickly!15:33
yoctozeptoTC4life15:33
gmann:) +115:33
belmoreirayeah, the farewell is in few weeks :) 15:34
gmannand I hope ricolin and mnaser will run as their term is also completing this election. 15:34
gmannbut feel free to encourage members for PTL or TC which you know are interested or you think better to have in group15:35
yoctozeptoI will be around on the mailing list after the farewell as well and you can always send me an email to my primary address :-) 15:35
ricolinI might not have much time for TC works in the following months, but will see before the Nomination end15:36
gmannyoctozepto: +1, cool. 15:36
gmannricolin: thanks.15:36
yoctozeptowhat if there are no more nominations though?15:36
yoctozeptowill you reduce the TC size again?15:36
gmannyeah, we will see what to do. either find someone or discuss on reducing the seat again15:37
ricolin+1 on encourage new TC to join15:37
jungleboyj+115:37
gmannyeah, I think we have lot of technical work to drive in coming cycles so having 9 members in group will be helpful but let's see15:38
gmannfor more election updates, we will discuss in election channel and update highlights in this channel too15:39
belmoreirahonestly I don't expect this to be a problem for the TC. Usually people only nominate themselves close to the end of the process15:39
gmannyeah, even for PTL also. at the end we see lot of nomination15:39
spotz_I did it early so I wouldn’t forget to fit review again15:39
yoctozeptoeven after the end15:39
jungleboyjThat was what I figured.15:39
jungleboyjspotz_:  Good job!  :-)15:40
gmannricolin: just to know till when is the Chinese vacation ?15:40
spotz_Hehe 15:40
jungleboyjgmann:  It officially ended on last Sunday.15:40
gmannspotz_: +115:40
jungleboyjLots of people take the following week off.15:40
ricolingmann, entire last week15:40
jungleboyj++15:41
gmannok so we are good in term of nomination dates. I thought it conflict and many members might miss notification 15:41
ricolinand give or take few days front or back15:41
ricolinyes15:41
ricolindefinitely okay15:41
gmannricolin: please spread the election nomination in local groups like wechat etc in case15:41
ricolinwill do15:41
gmannin case they missed the ML15:41
gmannricolin: thanks15:41
gmann#topic Dropping tags framework - next steps (yoctozepto)15:42
yoctozeptoyup15:42
yoctozeptoso, the releases repo needs to be adapted to stop relying on tags15:42
gmannpart1 is up for review #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/82290015:42
gmannyoctozepto: and openstack website too. 15:43
yoctozeptoah, good catch, I forgot, thanks gmann15:43
gmannI am not sure I can help on this in this cycle but anyone to help on replacing it for release scripts etc?15:43
gmannor yoctozepto can you please check in release channel if release membrs can help here15:45
yoctozeptothe other thing is new placement of the contentss15:45
yoctozeptoI will start a thread on the ML15:45
fungiif there's a timeframe for this, i can move the vulnerability:managed tag guidelines into the openstack/ossa repo15:46
yoctozeptofungi: thanks, that makes sense15:46
fungithe vmt relies on that as a means of documenting expectations, but we don't really have any tooling relying on it directly15:46
gmannfungi: thanks 15:46
yoctozeptoand then how do we want to track which projects are vmt?15:47
gmannfungi: we have few document/process in project team guide too #link https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/vulnerability-management.html15:47
fungiyoctozepto: the vmt can just maintain a list in the ossa repo15:47
gmannfungi: it is fine whatever way you want to arrange them in one place15:47
gmann+115:48
yoctozeptoack, perfect15:48
fungigmann: thanks for bringing that up, i had forgotten it was in there15:48
gmannfungi: on timeline, no hard timeline but we planned to finish it before Yoga release(final release). 15:48
fungiand yeah, whatever makes sense to be on the security.o.o site we'll put in the ossa repo and we can also move some stuff into the project team guide as appropriate15:49
gmannsounds good15:49
yoctozeptook, so vmt is solved, only stable (releases) and deprecation policy remain15:50
yoctozeptopresumably stable goes to releases team15:50
gmannyoctozepto: and for standard deprecation tag, we can move in project-team-guide under technical-guidelines (what we planned to make new dir) ?15:50
yoctozeptohmm, makes sense15:50
gmannyoctozepto: stable also we have in proeject-team-guide #link https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html15:51
yoctozeptoand projects are free to follow that15:51
yoctozeptogmann: yeah, I mean tracking15:51
gmannohk15:51
yoctozeptobut maybe it's irrelevant15:51
yoctozeptoI mean, it was only on the paper anyway15:52
yoctozepto(I hope that expression makes sense in English)15:52
gmannproject/repo having stable branch are supposed to follow it so yeah we do not need to track as list I think15:52
yoctozeptook, so similar to deprecation15:53
gmannsupposed to follow as per new process 15:53
yoctozeptoany other opinions?15:53
gmannIMO, for deprecation also I think same. we will have guidelines and project will follow that as they are doing now. list is not necessary to maintain 15:54
yoctozeptook, /me like15:55
gmannyeah, any other opinion? especially from users point of view15:55
opendevreviewMerged openstack/governance master: Add timelines to few of the Chair duties.  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/82806215:56
yoctozeptotough crowd15:56
yoctozeptoguess it means everyone agrees15:57
yoctozeptothanks gmann and fungi for discussion15:57
gmannhope so, please push the changes and we can get more feedback there if there is any15:57
yoctozepto+115:57
gmann3 min left let's move next15:57
gmannthanks yoctozepto for working on it15:58
gmann#Open Reviews15:58
gmann3 open review #link https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open15:58
gmann1 is in gate to merge15:58
gmannplease review those15:58
gmannone last thing15:58
gmannright after this meeting we will have release cadence discussion @ https://meetpad.opendev.org/OpenStackReleasecadence15:59
gmannplease join  there15:59
gmannthat is all from my side today ?15:59
* yoctozepto not around for it15:59
gmannthanks everyone for joining.15:59
yoctozeptothanks gmann for chairing15:59
gmann#endmeeting15:59
opendevmeetMeeting ended Thu Feb 10 15:59:36 2022 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:59
opendevmeetMinutes:        https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-02-10-15.00.html15:59
opendevmeetMinutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-02-10-15.00.txt15:59
opendevmeetLog:            https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2022/tc.2022-02-10-15.00.log.html15:59
* yoctozepto off15:59
jungleboyjThanks!15:59
dansmithgmann: can you paste the link for the release cycle discussion?16:00
gmanndansmith: https://meetpad.opendev.org/OpenStackReleasecadence16:00
funginote that jitsi-meet room names are case-insensitive but etherpad pad names are case-sensitive, so it's preferable to use all lower-case meetpad room names or else the room name and the pad name won't match up16:01
gmannfungi: ack, thanks. did not know that16:02
fungiin short, the pad being shared in the OpenStackReleasecadence room is the openstackreleasecadence pad16:02
fungiwe've (opendev) been looking into ways to switch etherpad to be case-insensitive as well, but currently have thousands of collisions between pad names we'd need to resolve first to put that into place16:03
opendevreviewMerged openstack/governance master: Remove security-specs from security sig  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/82801816:07
*** tkajinam is now known as Guest21016:30
dansmithgmann: trying to get my head wrapped around some stable math here17:40
dansmithwe support 18 months of old releases, which means that close to the end of a cycle before release, that's verging on 24 calendar months of oldness right?17:41
gmanndansmith: we usually release cycle and then make oldest release to extended maintenance so there is always window and more then 3 releases in support for some time. with new model, I think 24 months idea is also for same reason that to support at least two tick at the same time (if we are on time to move them to Extended maintenance or EOl on time )17:47
dansmithgmann: okay, so hypothetically,17:49
gmannsay A is first tick, after 12 month C is 2nd so A and C supported (along with B) and then with release of E, A, B goes away17:49
dansmithwe release C,  and Z is still supported until D?17:49
dansmithah, good,17:49
dansmiththat's what I wanted but was getting confused,17:49
dansmithso really two ticks are only supported during a tock,17:49
dansmithonce we have another tick, we drop the oldest tick so only two ticks are supported at any given point17:50
dansmithignore my second-to-last.. the easiest way is "only two ticks at any given point"17:50
gmannyeah, Z we need to see but after we start tick with A. -> A, B, C,D will be supported which need 24 month and with E release A,B goes away and C,D,E is in support.....17:50
dansmiththat's kinda 12 months of support, but if we continue supporting the tock previous (B) then that would be 18 as today17:50
gmannyeah17:51
dansmithack17:51
gmannor in simple term, oldest supported release will be always tick not tock.17:52
dansmithack17:53
dansmithI will put examples in here :)17:53
gmannA (release in 2022) goes away only after E (release in 2024) is released so 24 month support :)17:55
gmannyears as example, as they are not correct though17:56
dansmithI'm putting a table in here with an example sequence18:00
gmannk18:01
dansmithso you can review for correctness :D18:01
dansmithhmm, is this my doing? Warning, treated as error:18:12
dansmithFailed to read build info file: ValueError("build info file is broken: IndexError('list index out of range')")18:12
fungiis that from a sphinx build?18:14
dansmithyeah, in governance18:14
fungimake sure you clear out the build dir if tox isn't already configured to18:15
fungiyou can also stash your changes and rerun on the head state of course, to rule out your diff being a problem18:15
dansmiththat got me farther, but gives me this now:18:16
dansmithException occurred:18:16
dansmith  File "/home/dan/governance/doc/source/_exts/atcs.py", line 73, in run18:16
dansmith    raise ValueError('No project %r in projects.yaml' % (project,))18:16
dansmithValueError: No project 'astara-appliance' in projects.yaml18:16
fungiand that's after deleting all of doc/build ?18:17
dansmithyup18:17
gmannhumm, let me run18:17
dansmithit doesn't even seem to be running resolutions/ before it fails, so I don't think it's related to my stuff18:17
dansmithyeah, confirmed18:18
fungistill seems like a crufty tree problem18:18
fungii'm trying to reproduce it myself18:18
fungibut atcs.py shouldn't care about astara, it's been in legacy for a long time18:18
dansmithtrying a fresh clone18:19
gmannit is successfully in my case, with sphinx  4.4.018:19
dansmithokay yeah, makes it past that on a fresh clone18:19
dansmithwhat else can I delete?18:19
fungiyou could `git clean -dfx`18:19
fungiwhich should report what it removes18:19
dansmithremoved a bunch of reference/projects/actualthing.rst18:20
fungioh, yeah i bet that's it18:20
dansmithand that seemed to work18:20
gmannwhich one you want to remove :)18:20
fungii think one or more of the sphinx extensions generates rst files in the source tree18:20
dansmitheww18:21
fungiwe should probably add a rm to tox.ini to clear those and the build tree in testenv:docs18:21
fungi.gitignore includes reference/projects/*.rst18:22
fungiso presumably those can all be cleared safely18:22
opendevreviewDan Smith proposed openstack/governance master: Propose release cadence adjustment resolution  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/82877718:22
fungii'll propose a patch18:22
dansmithfungi: I can do it, I have it right here18:23
fungioh, go for it18:23
fungilooks like reference/projects/index.rst should not be removed as it's a tracked file18:23
fungiso might not be as simple as a straight rm18:23
dansmithoh sure, NOW you tell me :P18:24
fungiwhen i git clean, that's the only file left in the reference/projects dir18:24
fungimaybe this could be made easier to clean though with some minor adjusting18:25
dansmithis it generated?18:25
dansmithmy tree shows clean after doing that18:25
dansmither, hmm, maybe not18:26
fungireference/projects/index.rst looks not-generated, it contains a title and a couple of parahraphs, and then a toctree for *18:26
dansmithyah18:26
fungithough i suppose it *could* be put somewhere else and then copied to that dir when the projects are built18:27
fungior whatever builds those files could be made to remove everything it finds there except index.rst18:28
fungi_write_team_pages() in doc/source/_exts/teams.py would probably be a good place to add that logic18:29
opendevreviewDan Smith proposed openstack/governance master: Clean generated files before run in docs target  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/82878018:31
dansmithfungi: that okay/18:31
fungiyep, that'll work18:32

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