Thursday, 2021-09-23

opendevreviewRico Lin proposed openstack/governance master: Add project health check tool  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/81003701:25
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opendevreviewElod Illes proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Add section about stable-only patches  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/81066112:58
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opendevreviewMerged openstack/governance-sigs master: Modified Cloud Research SIG to active state  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance-sigs/+/80988714:58
gmanntc-members: meeting time15:00
gmann#startmeeting tc15:00
opendevmeetMeeting started Thu Sep 23 15:00:07 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
opendevmeetUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
opendevmeetThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'15:00
gmann#topic Roll call15:00
jungleboyjo/15:00
gmanno/15:00
dansmitho/15:00
ricolino/15:01
spotz_o/15:01
gmannlet's wait for 1 more  min for other tc-members15:02
* mnaser is booked in something else but reading15:02
gmann#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda_Suggestions15:03
yoctozeptoo/15:03
gmanntoday agenda ^^15:03
diablo_rojoo/15:03
gmann#topic Follow up on past action items15:03
gmannno action item from previous meeting15:03
gmann#topic Gate health check (dansmith/yoctozepto)15:03
dansmithI have not noticed any burning issues lately15:03
yoctozeptosame here15:03
dansmithwhich is like, amazing15:04
jungleboyjSeems that things have been running smoothly.15:04
jungleboyjYeah.  Let's not jinx it.15:04
gmann+1, yeah going good in this release. let's hope for same for next 1-2 week too :)15:05
gmann#topic TC tags analysis15:05
gmann#link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18GXibtdQnSkIwA7DsBvX9dPwbw9JH76AhhRUknzBb3Q/edit15:05
gmannI have added it a items for next newsletter also #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/newsletter-openstack-news15:05
gmannfeel free to update wording or so15:06
jungleboyj++15:06
belmoreirao/ (late)15:06
gmannyoctozepto: anything else we need to do on this before PTG discussion ?15:06
spotz_+115:06
gmannbelmoreira: hi15:06
jungleboyjJust updated the wording a bit.  Otherwise looks good.15:07
gmannjungleboyj: thanks 15:07
yoctozeptogmann: nothing I can think of15:07
jungleboyjI don't think there is more before the PTG.15:07
gmannyoctozepto: ok, I will remove it from next meeting agenda?15:08
yoctozeptogmann: ++15:08
jungleboyj++15:08
gmann#action gmann to remove 'TC tags analysis' from agenda15:08
gmann#topic Project Health checks framework15:08
gmann#link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/health_check15:08
gmann#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/81003715:08
opendevreviewRico Lin proposed openstack/governance master: Add project health check tool  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/81003715:08
gmannthanks ricolin for starting it.15:09
ricolinnew patch set^^^15:09
ricolinIt's currently only a tool to pull some status 15:09
belmoreirathanks ricolin15:09
diablo_rojoStill that is a good start ricolin :) 15:09
gmannwe discussed it yesterday and dansmith brought a good point of 'why we're collecting them and what we action to do'15:09
jungleboyjAgreed.15:09
gmannI added the Purpose and Action item section in etherpad at top15:10
jungleboyjThat is helpful.15:10
ricolingmann, thx15:10
diablo_rojoAgreed- we can pull stats all day long, but it doesnt matter if no one looks/ we aren't actually doing anything with them lol15:10
gmannwe can go with plan of 1. merge the current tool proposed by ricolin 2. discuss on purpose and action items/labeling the project etc15:10
gmannis it fine? or we want to do both together ?15:11
ricolin+1 on both15:11
ricolinmaybe not labeling IMO, but some monthly check will be nice15:12
spotz_It makes sense to stage the first or wait15:12
fungiyeah, focusing on stats which you expect to actually be useful to inform a decision/action the tc will take is a good way to scope it15:13
diablo_rojoWho's job will that be? to do the monthly check? 15:13
gmannTC members15:13
diablo_rojoI feel like if no one is 'assigned' everyone will assume a different TC member will do it? 15:13
jungleboyjdiablo_rojo:  ++15:13
gmannI feel if we will not label or so then it is hard to proceed to next step/actionable thing15:13
dansmithand is monthly really necessary?15:13
belmoreirahowever, keeping metrics is also important (It can give us a different overview over time)15:14
gmannnot monthly, I will say twice in a cycle 15:14
diablo_rojoYes. I figured TC members would be the ones responsible lol15:14
diablo_rojodansmith, +115:14
ricolindansmith, or twice a cycle?15:14
jungleboyjdansmith:  That does seem excessive.15:14
ricolinlike gmann said15:14
gmanndiablo_rojo: yeah we can discuss on assignment like we do for goal, gate checks etc15:14
jungleboyjTwice a cycle makes sense.  Middle and end ... ?15:14
dansmithtwice a cycle seems much better than monthly15:14
yoctozepto++15:14
ricolinIf you use that tool to run against Sahara or some projects that we have concerns with, it's totally clue there for some of them15:14
gmannmiddle will be more beneficial like we check and take decision so that release/CI&CD things can be saved during release time15:15
ricolinagree15:16
gmannbut to judge the stats we need some threshold to decide so that we can consider that project to be a candidate for next step (removal or help) 15:16
gmannand threshold depends on type of projects like for lib etc there are always less activities compare to service projects or so15:17
diablo_rojoI feel like those thresholds are going to be different depending on the kind of project though. 15:18
diablo_rojoCause there are more stable ones that are much more quiet. 15:18
gmannat for handling the incoming request not how much code they produce. like if very less patch there but they take care of bugs/reviews then it is all good15:18
spotz_Different projects might have different thresholds15:18
jungleboyjTrue.  Core projects vs others.15:18
fungilibs vs services is a sort of arbitrary split, and there are many factors which can result in higher or lower numbers for those various kinds of activities15:18
gmannyeah that is just example15:18
fungiwhere to set a threshold, if you have one at all, should probably be based on long-term analysis of all projects looking for correlations15:20
jungleboyjAgreed.  I don't think we have enough information right now that we could create thresholds.15:20
ricolinfungi, you mean like compare the data with the one we generated earlier for same project?15:20
jungleboyj++15:21
fungiricolin: look at numbers for projects you consider to be in a healthy state, and projects you consider to be in a risky state, across different historical timeframes15:21
gmannwe need some category where we can divide the projects stats to be consider as good or not good.15:22
fungibut really, analyze all projects, because you're going to need the largest sample size you can muster given there's not really that many projects and your analyses are likely to be rife with statistically insignificant observations15:22
ricolinfungi, +115:23
gmannlet's start the ''15:23
gmannlet's start the 'usage and actionable things on what data/threshold or so'15:23
gmannin etherpad or so and then we can start replacing it with TC liaison framework15:24
fungii.e. if you set thresholds at all, base them on observations as to how teams are actually working not on assumptions about how you think teams should be working15:24
spotz_++15:24
gmannyes, we can map those with the project removal criteria 15:25
gmann#link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/dropping-projects.html15:25
gmannwe need to make sure we have a agreed & documented interpretation of stats generated by this tool instead of everyone interpret it differently 15:26
gmannand meanwhile we can review/merge the current tool which can be extended later also #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/810037/15:27
ricolin+1, will be nice if we actually got something to documented down15:27
ricolinofficially15:27
jungleboyj++15:27
gmannI will keep it in agenda and everyone add your opinion on etherpad about stats usage/label project etc15:28
gmannanything else on topic?15:29
ricolinnot from me15:29
gmannok, thanks again ricolin 15:29
gmann#topic Xena Tracker15:29
gmann#link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-xena-tracker15:29
gmannwe have 5 items to finish (excluding gate health checks we we do every week) and out of them two (tag, goal) are needed to be discussed in PTG 15:30
gmannand this project health tool which is also in-progress 15:31
gmannother two items are:15:31
gmann1. Getting projects to broadast out/mentor - https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-spread-the-word15:31
gmannwe have etherpad now with some data15:31
spotz_Need to add words to make that an email then grab addresses and send it15:32
gmannspotz_: ok and to add it in project-team-guide?15:32
spotz_We could yeah15:33
gmannok, I think we have enough/all places listed there where we can broadcast the things15:34
spotz_Yeah and most are established so don’t think they’ll go away15:34
gmannspotz_: may be you can start the ML/patch?15:34
spotz_Yeah I got drug away working on a conference deck. I’ll slip this in real quick15:35
gmannthanks15:36
gmann2. Stable core team process change15:36
gmannmnaser: jungleboyj any news on this?15:36
jungleboyjLast I heard mnaser was working on something but haven't seen an update.15:36
gmannok15:37
mnaserill just push up what i have now so far, i think i was waiting for it to be a little too perfect15:37
fungithat's what the review process is for ;)15:37
gmannmnaser: +1, that will be great15:37
jungleboyjmnaser:  Awesome.  I will review.  :-)15:38
gmannanything else/update on Xena tracking items ?15:38
gmannI think we will be able to finish all of them in Xena itself (except few which need final discussion in PTG)15:38
gmanngood progress everyone and thanks for working on those. 15:39
jungleboyjThat is good.15:39
gmann#topic Open Reviews15:39
gmann#link https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open15:39
gmannI think we are good here, few project updates are there but waiting for project-config to merge before15:40
gmannmnaser: fungi if you can quickly review this project-config #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/808072/1 15:41
gmannI have one more thing to discuss 15:41
mnaserdone gmann 15:41
gmannthanks 15:42
gmannas we have same TC members continuing this term, i have not reset the TC liaison list. which I think we do not need to rest as we are also working on alternate framework to replace it15:42
gmannis it fine for all?15:42
gmanns/rest/reset15:42
dansmithsounds good15:42
jungleboyjMakes sense.15:43
yoctozepto++15:43
gmanncool, anything else for today ?15:43
diablo_rojoWe want to do have k8s folks meet at the PTG with us?15:43
diablo_rojoI can start coordinating that. 15:43
diablo_rojoDo we want to let them pick their timeslot from our available times?15:44
gmannyeah, we sent email to them and have it in our PTG etherpad too to have a slot for them15:44
gmannwaiting for their reply15:44
spotz_I’ll be at oss next week and at kubecon if we need to reach out to anyone 15:44
diablo_rojogmann, hadn't seen the email. I can ask them at their next meeting. 15:44
gmannyeah, I asked to pick any time they want.15:45
gmanndiablo_rojo: I kept you in CC15:45
diablo_rojospotz_, I think that any of the k8s steering that are travelling will be at kubecon.15:45
gmanndiablo_rojo: +1 that will be great, please check15:45
diablo_rojogmann, sounds good. Will do. 15:45
gmanndiablo_rojo: thanks15:45
gmannspotz_: diablo_rojo you are traveling to kubecon or virutal ?15:45
ricolinthanks diablo_rojo 15:45
opendevreviewMohammed Naser proposed openstack/governance master: wip: stable core team  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/81072115:46
gmannanything else for meeting today?15:46
mnaseri updated the stable core team stuff i had so far, appreciate early reviews and maybe if jungleboyj can help out with the proposed solutions part15:47
spotz_I’ll be there15:47
gmannmnaser: +1, thanks for that15:47
gmannspotz_: i see15:47
gmannlet's close meeting. thanks everyone for joining.15:47
gmann#endmeeting15:47
opendevmeetMeeting ended Thu Sep 23 15:47:43 2021 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:47
opendevmeetMinutes:        https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-09-23-15.00.html15:47
opendevmeetMinutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-09-23-15.00.txt15:47
opendevmeetLog:            https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-09-23-15.00.log.html15:47
diablo_rojogmann, no I don't think I will be going. 15:47
gmanndiablo_rojo: k15:48
jungleboyjThank you!15:48
diablo_rojoThanks!15:48
spotz_Thanks!15:48
ricolinThanks15:48
yoctozeptothanks gmann15:51
mnaseri think a fair people will not be going to in-person kubecon15:51
gmannyeah, it will good to see how many prefer in-person.15:52
gmannI am not even getting much confidence of going to restaurant for dine-in :)  which I want badly :P15:54
mnaserwe've got vaccine passports here in quebec15:54
mnaserso restaurants are all double vaccinated people15:54
mnaserdoesn't mean it's perfect but hey15:55
gmannyeah, I also got the vaccine passport but somehow I am not prepared mentally :)15:55
gmannone time i tried and saw 150 people and came back :)15:56
mnaseryeah im not so much better, we've had the vaccine passport since sept 1 and i havent used it once lol15:56
spotzI think it helps I've been doing animal stuff where they force social sitancing to soome degree and were outside. I did order KN95 masks for the conferences16:01
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jungleboyjA lot of companies aren't letting people travel yet.  We do go out in public here but Rochester, being a medical town, has a lot of vaccinated people and low Covid rates.16:02
jungleboyjStill not doing large events or going up to the Twin Cities.16:03
gmannhumm16:06
fungiyeah, living in a tourist trap has probably made this harder, we did dine inside a few restaurants briefly in the spring when rates dropped, before the summer surge, but we're back to basically not entering buildings other than our own home, and wearing masks any time we'll be in the vicinity of other humans regardless of whether they're vaccinated16:14
gmannyeah16:15
gmannmnaser: fungi can you review this project-config patch also https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/80867516:16
fungidone16:16
gmannthanks16:16
fungiyou bet16:16
spotzgmann fungi diablo_rojo jungleboyj - if y'all orr anyoone else is about can you look at https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-spread-the-word and let me know what you think?17:11
jungleboyjspotz: I made a couple nit-picky changes.  Otherwise looks good.17:14
fungiyeah, nothing else springs to mind but if i think of something i'll suggest it17:15
fungithere's a blurry line between blogs and e-zines, too (do people still say e-zine?)17:16
fungifor example, superuser.openstack.org is more of an e-zine, like opensource.com17:16
fungii think both are great ways to go about getting the word out though17:17
fungiand the opensource.com editors are generally also excited to get new content17:17
fungilwn is another17:18
diablo_rojospotz, looking now17:24
diablo_rojoLooks fine to me. 17:26
spotzfungi: If it's written I just considered them blogs to be honest:)17:29
fungicool, then opensource.com and lwn.net may be good additions17:30
fungifwiw, i have to restrain my desire to still call them weblogs17:30
spotzNow to find where I put the etherpad!17:30
fungihttps://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-spread-the-word17:31
fungiyou linked it just above17:31
spotzI know, I just couldn't find the tab. I don't have my extra monitors up right now:(17:32
fungihah. if your browser is like mine, you can put the url into the url bar and it will autocomplete an option to switch to that tab17:33
spotzadded opensouorce.com annd lwn.net as 6 and 717:33
fungiand this concludes another meeting of tab hoarders anonymous17:33
dansmithtree style tabs ftw17:34
fungiwhichever firefox devs thought there was a reason to help users not re-open the same page in multiple tabs was a genius17:34
jungleboyj:-)  17:36
gmannspotz: lgtm.17:48
spotzTabs and multiple windows and multiple browsers. It's a mess17:49
spotzOk email addresses put together so I'll get it out in a second:)17:50
spotzchanged the first paragraph - As a TC initiative during the Xena cycle, we took on the task of putting together a list of possible places you as PTLs could help spread the word about what you and your team mates do. Getting the word out about your project is a great way to get additional contributors and users, for both your project and OpenStack as a whole. Not everyone enjoys talking to groups or writing, so we've put tog17:54
spotzether a list of potential opportunities so you can choose what makes you comfortable. 17:54
spotzI thought it lacked context17:54
fungisounds great17:55
jungleboyjspotz:  Looks good!17:56
gmannspotz: thanks Looks good.17:57
spotzetherpad formats better then gmail:)18:04
spotzsent18:08
fungiheh18:11
spotzgmann: I'm thinking a spread-the-word.rst file, or did you have something else in mind?18:18
gmannspotz: sounds good. 18:20
spotzOk sweet18:20
gmanntc-members: on ELK help thread: there is a plan to have meeting with OpenSearch dev team (an open source fork of Elasticsearch) next week to explore what would be involved in migrating OpenStack's tools to a donated hosted OpenSearch. If you'd like to join, add your availability to the poll- https://doodle.com/poll/k2i4mgsnftspaqeh 18:26
funginot migrating. but someone could perhaps build a replacement making use of it18:43
fungiremember opendev is not planning to continue providing the indexing services which would feed into that either, someone still needs to be interested in doing that part for the backend to be of any use18:45
opendevreviewAmy Marrich proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Added spread-the-word.rst  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/81076618:45
opendevreviewAmy Marrich proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Added spread-the-word.rst  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/81076619:01
fungispotz: what do you think about adding things like the open infrastructure foundation newsletter? i suppose that would be an additional category?19:01
spotzfungi: Do they take full articles? I honestly don't know19:02
funginot full articles, but they do spotlights and community updates, both of which could certainly be used to "spread the word" about a project or effort19:02
fungiperhaps with less effort than writing a full article too19:02
fungiwonder if there are other similar options in that vein too19:03
spotzTrue19:07
gmannas newsletter team expect the overall updates from TC, in 'spread the word' we can add something 'communicate to TC if you would like to highlights specific updates to newsletter' so that we can maintain central review of overall updates from openstack19:11
fungiwell, the tc is one place the newsletter editors get info from for the openstack section, but diablo_rojo, ttx and i also add things beyond that if they seem appropriate19:12
gmannI am talking about openstack19:12
fungiyep, me too19:12
fungistill, letting the tc know or adding something to the crowdsourced etherpad for the newsletter are certainly good ways to go about it19:13
fungijust saying that openstack-related content for the newsletter doesn't always come through the tc19:13
fungibut we do try to include anything the tc asks to be included19:13
gmannI think that is what TC review every month via  https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/newsletter-openstack-news19:14
gmannbut as TC does not own the newsletter things I am ok if newsletter news can be done directly from all openstack projects as individual or from TC as central place19:16
gmannbut to make it aesy to maintain at least for openstack projects, it is good to mention to communicate it via TC in spread-the-word19:17
fungiyeah, i mean a majority of the content for the openstack section comes from that etherpad, we just also sometimes add stuff directly to the newsletter we think of at the last minute if it's important/relavant but missing from the etherpad, and also the newsletter editorial team does spotlight pieces which are often about openstack topics and generally don't come from that etherpad19:17
fungithough might sometimes be inspired by entries from there19:18
opendevreviewAmy Marrich proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Added spread-the-word.rst  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/81076619:22
opendevreviewAmy Marrich proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Added spread-the-word.rst  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/81076619:37
opendevreviewAmy Marrich proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Added spread-the-word.rst  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/81076619:46
spotzI will spam you all!!!!:)19:46
spotzAnd curse out the rst docs...20:00
opendevreviewAmy Marrich proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Added spread-the-word.rst  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/81076620:01
opendevreviewAmy Marrich proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Added spread-the-word.rst  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/81076620:17
gmannspotz: commented, few formatting issues otherwise lgtm22:31
spotzgmann formatting was why all the patches:) Thanks I'll get that tonight or in the morning:)22:36
opendevreviewAmy Marrich proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Added spread-the-word.rst  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/81076622:41
spotzccross your fingers22:41
fungispotz: one trick is to `tox -e docs` and then point your browser at file:///.../doc/build/html/22:41
fungiif you don't want to have to wait for the docs job in zuul to run22:42
fungii often do that to check formatting before i push22:42
spotzfungi yeah that didn't want to run locally for me:(22:43
spotzIt's a local problem I just haven't gotten around to arguing eith22:43
fungiahh22:43
opendevreviewMerged openstack/project-team-guide master: Tag deliverables as retired  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/79668722:43
spotzSo it was honestly faster to wait for Zuul though apologies for spammage:)22:45
fungiheh, no worries22:46
spotzAnd the rrst docs arer so inconsistent between - and * and do you need a blank line or should you indent. I was honestly happy to see a green pass22:47

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