Thursday, 2021-06-03

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opendevreviewGhanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Add resolution for ATC renamed to AC  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/79436602:14
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tkajinamI have one quick question regarding irc server migration. should be backport the change to replace freeenode by oftc ?04:03
tkajinam(I guess most of people are offline now so will follow up in ml later04:04
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mnasertkajinam: that's a really good question actually12:49
mnaseri think we should if possible, because the doc for previous releases are actually published12:49
mnasertkajinam: we have a tc meeting today, this seems like a good thing to bring up.  do you want to add it to the list or i can do that? :)12:50
tkajinammnaser, could you bring up that topic. I'm afraid meeting happens at too late time in my tz :-(12:51
mnasertkajinam: no problem.  i will do that and i will make sure we get an update to ML12:57
tkajinammnaser, thanks !12:58
mnaserno problem :)12:58
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fungii guess the question is mostly specific to in-project contributor docs for branched projects. on the whole those were added fairly recently so hopefully only present in one or two stable branches13:06
fungibut also i wonder if it makes sense to publish branched versions of contributor docs, vs always redirecting to latest for them13:07
mnaseryeah i'd argue that contributor docs probably don't need to be branched as there's only one given functional state of them, and i dont think we need much of "how did we install things a few yers ago" :p13:08
fungior more importantly "where were you able to reach us years ago"13:11
mnaserfungi: yeah but i guess that couldbe done with the preservaion of commit history13:20
fungiright, if anyone really needs to go looking back at contribution process for old releases there's always git history13:22
fungiand for the published version we might be able to come up with a simple redirect pattern for the docs site13:23
fungiassuming projects are using consistent urls for their contributor docs it could be a one-liner13:24
fungiin the .htaccess file in openstack-manuals with all the other redirects13:24
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TheJuliarandom question, how long do we let the old channels sit before I don't know... pointing to the mailing list post?13:33
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fungiin my opinion it's probably fine to just guide people who start talking in channel about anything other than the move to oftc13:50
fungior do you mean setting the channel topic to the ml archive url?13:50
fungifor the most part, i think the people left in a lot of the old channels are just zombie bouncer processes they haven't reconnected to in months/years13:51
fungiand may never13:51
mnaserfungi: i am redirecting at least 1-2 people a day in the channels im in right now13:55
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gmannyeah we can discuss about backport and not just contributor doc but other doc also.14:03
gmannTheJulia: we will discuss that in today TC meeting. added question in etherpad14:03
fungigmann: right, i'm mostly wondering what other docs besides contributor guides are going to mention irc channels, seems like there wouldn't be that many14:06
gmannIn few projects I saw changes in other doc also but yes they are not many. releasenotes are ok as they are updated in master for all stable branch, specs are also updated which are also not branch specific14:08
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TheJuliaI was kind of surprised how few places it was actually referenced14:27
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gmann#startmeeting tc15:00
opendevmeetMeeting started Thu Jun  3 15:00:25 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
opendevmeetUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
opendevmeetThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'15:00
dansmitho/15:00
gmanntc-members: meeting time15:00
mnasero/15:00
ricolino/15:00
diablo_rojoo/15:00
belmoreirao/15:00
spotz_I/15:00
gmann#topic Roll call15:00
gmanno/15:00
ricolino/15:01
gmannone in Absence section : yoctozepto would not be able join due to holiday15:01
gmannlet's start15:02
jungleboyjo/15:02
gmann#topic Follow up on past action items15:02
gmanntwo action item15:02
gmanngmann to push the resolution for ATC/AC terms15:02
gmannI did push this #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/79436615:02
gmannplease review15:02
gmannthis is basically recording that ATC is now renamed to AC15:03
gmannnext action item is 'ricolin to start testing patch for TLS and send on ML.'15:03
gmannricolin: any update15:03
ricolin#link https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:%22exame-tls-proxy%22+(status:open%20OR%20status:merged)15:04
ricolinnot sending ML yet15:04
ricolinbut do enable tls-proxy in several services15:04
ricolinbut failed mostly15:04
ricolinnot look in detail yet15:04
gmannok15:04
gmannricolin: you want to continue this as Action item or just keep testing it ?15:05
ricolinstill need this action item15:05
gmannsure15:06
gmann#action ricolin to continue testing patch for TLS and send on ML.15:06
gmann#topic Gate health check (dansmith/yoctozepto)15:06
gmanndansmith: any updates15:06
dansmiththe number one thing I've seen in the last week is cinder fails15:06
dansmithwe had some hiccup with some subset of workers yesterday for less than an hour, but that was quickly resolved15:07
dansmithso I think cinder fails are the only kinda systemic thing I've noticed15:07
gmanni saw that in morning on one of my nova patch too15:07
jungleboyj:-(15:07
jungleboyjSo Cinder is still the problem child.15:07
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jungleboyjShouldn't be surprised given our logo.  :-)15:08
spotz_Pot Cinder15:08
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dansmithother than that I don't have much to report15:08
gmannok, thanks15:08
spotz_Poor even15:08
jungleboyj:-)15:08
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gmannother one is issue on devstack with ovn default. horizon integration jobs is also failed15:08
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jungleboyjI will chat with rosmaita again.15:08
gmannfixes are up on devstack side, hope we can merge them soon15:09
gmannjungleboyj: thanks15:09
dansmithgmann: oh yeah, forgot about that one15:09
gmanndansmith: yeah I will review that today. we have testing patch also up.15:10
dansmithcool15:10
gmannlet's move to next topic15:10
gmann#topic Migration from 'Freenode' to 'OFTC' (gmann)15:10
jungleboyj\o/  Success15:11
gmannas you know bot and logs are done.15:11
dansmithalthough I didn't realize there are still meetbot issues15:11
gmannbut we have more work to do on this especially on communication part15:11
funginot really issues, it just doesn't edit the channel topic currently15:11
dansmithI think most people are not on service-discuss, so hadn't seen some announcement about it there15:11
spotz_Yeah I haven’t seen any issues15:11
dansmithfungi: yeah, it just looks like it's not working15:11
fungiit still annotates the meeting minutes with the topics you declare15:11
fungithe difference in oftc's channel permissions model makes the old method meetbot used for that complicated, but we've got a long-pending rewrite of the meetbot onto a new framework which is finally underway as of this week, and we'll implement a better solution in that15:12
dansmithsweet15:13
gmannnice15:13
gmannI have created this etehrpad for tracking all work #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/openstack-irc-migration-to-oftc15:13
gmannif you find some of the item missing, feel free to add15:14
jungleboyjfungi:  Thank you for all your efforts!15:14
fungiit was a group effort, but you're welcome!15:14
spotz_+215:14
gmannTC resolution is all set to merge today in evening or so #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/79326015:14
fungiglad it was fairly painless for everyone15:14
gmannyeah smooth migration till now.15:14
fungiwe do still need someone to reach out to sergey (i hear he's still at mirantis) about getting control of the #openstack-sahara channel, but the rest are fine now15:15
gmannfungi: yeah i was writting that15:15
gmannL15 in https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/openstack-irc-migration-to-oftc15:15
gmannfungi: did we send email to him or just ping on IRC ?15:16
fungigmann: so far i only tried irc, it's been a lower priority for me15:17
fungibut maybe it's a higher priority for folks using that channel if one of them wants to try to get in touch with him15:17
gmannok, I will add this to sahara meeting and ping jeremyfreudberg if they can reachout15:17
gmannyeah15:17
fungii can probably eventually get around to e-mailing him myself, but my to do list is... lengthy15:18
gmann#action reachout to sahara team and PTL to get control of the #openstack-sahara channel15:18
gmannfungi: ^^ i will check it15:18
gmann#action gmann reachout to sahara team and PTL to get control of the #openstack-sahara channel15:18
gmannwe two things to discuss about this migration15:19
gmannBackporting OFTC reference changes (mnaser)15:19
mnasero/15:19
ricolinjeremyfreudberg, ^^^15:19
jeremyfreudbergack15:19
gmannthis came up in morning from tkajinam15:19
mnaserthis morning (my morning anyways :]) we had a question if we should backport refs to irc15:19
mnasermy opinion: yes if possible15:20
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gmannyeah I think we should. people refer to stable release doc too15:20
jungleboyjAgreed.15:20
gmannmostly it is contributor doc but there are few other doc too15:20
jungleboyjSometimes it is what comes up in google searches by default.15:20
gmanntrue15:21
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fungihowever, separately, it's worth questioning whether publishing branched contributor docs is sane in the first place15:21
fungiif they all use consistent urls, we can probably add a single pattern-based redirect in the .htaccess file for the docs site to always send people to the latest contributor docs15:22
gmanndoc is fine but CONTRIBUTING.rst in top for github repo need that right?15:23
gmanncontributor/contributing.rst can be maintained  in master only15:23
fungiare users likely to pay attention to the CONTRIBUTING.rst files on old branches?15:23
diablo_rojo..I kind of doubt it?15:24
fungii mean, it doesn't hurt to backport that stuff, it just doesn't seem like it's critical if folks are unlikely to look at the old versions15:24
gmannI do not know but we can keep it as anyone can do15:24
dansmithgoogle often returns things of pike-era, FWIW15:24
tkajinamsome projects mentions irc server in README.rst as well15:24
tkajinamI tend to go for "fix anything" style15:25
gmannI think  if we keep doc/source/contributor/contributing.rst  on master then should be mainly ok.15:25
dansmithprobably because at peak hype, most things linked to docs of the day, which raises their rank15:25
tkajinaminstead of setting complicated rules...15:25
fungitkajinam: wow your projects must have no bugs left!15:25
gmanntkajinam: yes README also like in nova15:25
gmannfungi: it is about mentioning some meeting info or so with freenode info15:25
gmannso not bug actually15:25
tkajinams/anything/everything/15:26
tkajinamsorry :-P15:26
tkajinamfungi, I hooope so :-D15:26
fungidansmith: yeah, addressing it in old docs, assuming web search engines are sending people to the docs site, can be handled by a redirect much more easily for a lot of it15:26
gmannshould we ask project to remove  doc/source/contributor/contributing.rst  from stable then ?15:26
dansmithfungi: not sure what that means.. effectively removing old docs and redirecting to current?15:26
gmannbecasue that is always referred to latest from stable branch too #link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/stable/wallaby/CONTRIBUTING.rst15:27
fungiback to my old question, are people looking at old branches of the git repo (not old versions on the docs site)?15:27
gmannwe have two file here top level CONTRIBUTING.rst which is kind of static and point to */latest/contributor/contributing.html15:28
fungidansmith: if it's mostly the contributor docs in branched projects which are the problem, then adding a pattern-based redirect in the docs site's .htaccess file like we do for tons of other stuff. one line could cover all projects using the same url patterns15:28
gmannso keeping  top level CONTRIBUTING.rst on stable does not harm anything15:28
fungiand would be one review to land instead of potentially hundreds15:28
dansmithokay, if it's just the contributor doc, then sure15:28
gmannbut  doc/source/contributor/contributing.rst  on stable is not referred on stable15:28
dansmithhaving the contributor doc exposed on a stable branch is just asking for trouble anyway15:29
jungleboyjfungi:  I am all for whatever the easiest and most visible solution may be.  :-)15:29
diablo_rojodansmith, I would agree. Outdated info potentially.15:29
fungiif we think lots of people are going to be finding old contact info on old git branches and in old docs other than the project contributor docs, then sure maybe the many hours of contributor and ci time to push and review and merge those changes is warranted, but do at least consider it as a cost/benefit ratio15:29
fungithere are still lots of projects with branches which mention the openstack-dev mailing list too, fwiw15:30
diablo_rojo..and the general lack of spoons15:30
fungiand git.openstack.org site15:30
jungleboyjTrue.15:30
fungiand whatever else was a thing at one time but isn't today15:30
gmannfor long term I think this is good way to remove from stable15:30
jungleboyj++15:30
gmannok  so-15:30
mnaseri mean imho i am in the school of thought of 'if you wanna do it, go for it, it would be nice'15:31
fungimy not-on-the-tc opinion is that projects are free to update that on old branches but telling them it's mandatory is questionable15:31
mnaserbut maybe not 'please make sure you backport this doc change 6 release back'15:31
gmannremove the doc/source/contributor/contributing.rst and keep CONTRIBUTING.rst(this does not have freenode info) on stable instead of backporting OFTC change15:31
gmannbackport everything else you changed for OFTC15:32
dansmithbut, fungi is going to land some redirect for the contributor doc to make it all mostly hidden anyway right?15:32
gmannthat we can sugegst to projects15:32
gmannredirect ?15:32
gmannoh on stable, yes15:32
gmannand we can ask projects to remove them with redirect15:33
gmannbut when they have time so its a suggestion for long term easiness15:33
mnaseri think what fungi suggested is that, opendev infra will handle a global redirect15:33
dansmithwe don't have to ask projects, I thought... fungi is going to do it globally?15:33
dansmithright15:33
mnaserand projects just need to rm -rfv contributor/contributing.rst15:33
gmannok if that can be done globally its great15:34
dansmithpersonally, I'd not want to delete anything from git history15:34
gmanndansmith: then it may be outdated15:34
dansmithif it's being handled on the rendered site globally, I'd just say leave it and only people looking at git trees will see the old stuff15:34
dansmithit's the rendered page that is the most important, IMHO15:34
dansmithor just say "backport what you want, or delete it from your old trees, but neither are required" ?15:34
fungimnaser: dansmith: it would just be a line in the .htaccess file in the openstack-manuals repo15:35
fungibut sure i can take a first shot at it15:35
gmannyeah15:35
jungleboyjYeah, I think we should just go with the one liner change.15:35
fungithere's a ton of redirects already in openstack-manuals, which used to be maintained by the docs team15:36
gmann- backport the OFTC things and for contributing.rst remove the doc/source/contributing.rst for ling term15:36
gmannotherwise many project might need to do partial backport so let them backport as it is15:36
gmannand then they can remove it based on time15:36
gmannany other point on backport ?15:37
gmannnext thing to decide is - 'Topic change on Freenode channel'15:37
gmannwhen we should do this ?15:37
spotzWill we just get the channel banned if we do?15:38
dansmithI think the freenode people have already made their mea culpa on over-reaction to these things15:38
dansmithso I think we can do it now and likely won't see a big reaction right?15:38
gmannspotz: may be so not sure but that is risk15:38
dansmithand if we do, meh15:38
mnaseri've been hanging around at channels pointing people over15:38
mnaserstill see 1-2 people a day15:38
fungiyeah, that seems to be working so far15:38
gmannwe can assume they will do some action as worst case15:38
spotzCentos channel names is now actually centos-has-moved:)15:38
fungialso my past experience is that most people who aren't paying attention in channels also don't look at the channel topic wherever it's displayed in their client anyway15:39
mnaseri feel as long as we're in the channels15:39
mnaserand we're ok with sending people over15:39
mnaserlets keep doing that until it clearly feels like we're doing it less often15:39
gmannand by this week all meeting should have happened on OFTC so that is good trigger also15:39
gmannwe can keep it open for next week also and change topic on 11th June Friday ?15:40
gmannand until then continue redirecting people from there15:40
mnaseryeah could be a good idea15:40
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gmannok, we can work on Topic change wording with fungi meanwhile.15:41
gmannother progress on project side doc/wiki can be seen in etherpad15:42
fungiyeah, if you do decide you want to update channel topics in all the openstack project channels, i can help do that15:42
gmannfungi: +1, thanks15:42
gmannanything else on OFTC?15:42
funginot from me15:42
mnaserhuge thanks to fungi for championing most of this15:43
spotzNot I15:43
mnaserthe transition has been pretty darn flawless15:43
gmannyeah thanks again fungi15:43
jungleboyjThanks!15:43
fungiit was a group effort from the opendev sysadmins and broader community, but on their behalf, you're welcome!15:43
gmann+115:43
gmannmoving next15:43
gmann#topic OpenStack Newsletters15:43
gmann#link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/newsletter-openstack-news15:44
gmannI have added three key things thetre15:44
gmannthere15:44
gmannanything else to add ?15:44
spotzI think those are the main things15:44
fungii did already supply oftc migration wording to the newsletter editors earlier in the week15:44
mnaseri have a more of a market-y idea15:44
mnaserwhy dont we rephrase a 'critical help needed' to 'do you want to help operate ES at scale' or something along those lines15:45
mnasereither as learning/trying/etc15:45
ricolingmann, will be good to also mention y cycle goal idea collecting15:45
mnaserseem a lot more 'come do this cool thing' rather than 'plz help we cant convince anyone to look at it' :p15:45
gmannmnaser: we can do whatever help us to get help :)15:45
gmannricolin: that is good one to add but can we add more than 3? may be question to diablo_rojo ?15:46
gmannricolin: but feel free to add it in Future one15:46
ricolindiablo_rojo, ^^^ question here:)15:46
gmannmnaser: feel free to reword that on etherpad15:46
ricolingmann, will check15:47
gmannricolin: the one in Future section will be added in next newsletter15:47
gmanndiablo_rojo: when is deadline to finalize it? I think today?15:47
diablo_rojodeadline for the newsletter?15:48
diablo_rojoEOD (for US) today15:48
ricolindiablo_rojo, how many items we can added to newsletter15:48
gmanndiablo_rojo: ok, I think we are ready with that.15:49
ricolinI do have a y cycle goal one can mention in newsletter, but I can added to feature list if three is the limit15:49
gmann* Future items15:49
ricolin;p15:49
gmannlet' move next and we can check on y goal addition if ok as per limit15:50
gmann#topic Open Reviews15:50
ricolinsure15:50
gmann#link https://review.opendev.org/q/project:openstack/governance+is:open15:50
ricolinlet me added to future items for now15:50
gmannplease review those OFTC resolution is all set to merge today15:50
gmannricolin: cool, thakns15:50
diablo_rojoThere is no limit15:50
gmannone thing or OFTC i missed.15:51
diablo_rojoI just have to write it up lol so have a little pity on me15:51
mnasergmann: fyi, i would reference https://review.opendev.org/q/projects:openstack/governance+is:open usually (projectS instead of project), there's some changes to other repos we should occasionally look at15:51
diablo_rojoI think that will already be mentioned elsewhere in the newsletter- the OFTC stuff15:51
gmannmnaser: ohk, that will help more. will fix that15:51
gmannrenaming the #heat channel to #openstack-heat https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/heat/+/794596/1/doc/source/developing_guides/pluginguide.rst#64715:52
gmannricolin ^^15:52
gmannthis is good time to fix that like octavia did/doing ?15:52
ricolingmann, +115:52
ricolindo I need to propose the patch myself? or we do have other automatic way to do it now:)15:53
gmannmnaser: even let me prepare query for all repo under TC, like openstack/ideas etc15:53
mnasergmann: yes, good idea15:53
mnaseri think we can have project dashboards or soemthing with the newer gerrit but15:54
mnasernot my expertise =)15:54
gmannricolin: I think fungi can answer that. working with opendev or so15:54
fungii encourage you to skim through our accessbot channels list looking for other channels which need to be renamed or are no longer needed15:54
fungi#link https://opendev.org/openstack/project-config/src/branch/master/accessbot/channels.yaml OpenDev AccessBot channels list15:54
gmannthat's all from me today. anything else from anyone ?15:55
fungifor example cloudkitty, tacker and tripleo don't use openstack- prefixes either, so is heat that much of an outlier?15:56
TheJuliapersonally, I could see ironic wanting #ironic, but we already moved *shrug*15:56
mnaserdoes oftc support channel forwarding15:57
fungibut if the heat tam wants to move from #heat to #openstack-heat then yeah, do similar to what the octavia team is doing15:57
gmannIf heat team is interested to rename I think it is fine15:57
fungimnaser: no, it doesn't15:57
mnaseraw, okay15:57
fungimnaser: we have a new process up for review15:57
fungi#link https://review.opendev.org/794313 Update channel renaming instructions for OFTC15:57
gmannmay be keep monitoring old channel for some time can help for forwarding-gap15:58
fungiyeah, the new process suggests an entrymessage as an available option for that too15:58
gmannlet's close meeting. thanks all for joining.15:59
gmann#endmeeting15:59
opendevmeetMeeting ended Thu Jun  3 15:59:08 2021 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:59
opendevmeetMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-06-03-15.00.html15:59
opendevmeetMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-06-03-15.00.txt15:59
opendevmeetLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-06-03-15.00.log.html15:59
spotzThanks all!15:59
diablo_rojoThanks!15:59
gmannfungi: and topic change we can do at least15:59
fungiyep, that's also mentioned in the new process15:59
gmann+115:59
ricolinfungi, thx16:02
ricolinwill do so16:02
fungiyw16:02
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opendevreviewGhanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Add resolution for ATC renamed to AC  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/79436616:21
gmannspotz: jungleboyj ^^ updated16:22
opendevreviewGhanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Add resolution for ATC renamed to AC  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/79436616:22
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spotzThanks gmann16:25
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jungleboyjThanks gmann  I reviewed again.19:04
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gmannthanks19:19
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opendevreviewBrian Rosmaita proposed openstack/governance master: Propose vulnerability:managed tag for os-brick  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/79468021:47
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opendevreviewMerged openstack/governance master: Replace freenode ref with OFTC  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/79386423:06

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