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| mnaser | #startmeeting tc | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 4 15:01:14 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mnaser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 15:01 |
| mnaser | #topic rollcall | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:01 | |
| mnaser | o/ | 15:01 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:01 |
| dansmith | o/ | 15:01 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 15:01 |
| belmoreira | o/ | 15:01 |
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| mnaser | #topic Follow up on past action items | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Follow up on past action items (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:02 | |
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| mnaser | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-01-28-15.00.html | 15:03 |
| mnaser | diablo_rojo complete retirement of karbor | 15:03 |
| * mnaser looks up review | 15:03 | |
| mnaser | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/767056 | 15:03 |
| mnaser | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/767057 | 15:04 |
| mnaser | that seems to have landed | 15:04 |
| mnaser | any other tc members want to vote on the governance repo change and we can land that cange | 15:04 |
| gmann | yeah, few usage one is the only left one #link https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:%2522retire-karbor%2522+status:open | 15:04 |
| gmann | especially system-config and openstack-map | 15:04 |
| mnaser | osf/openstack-map i think ttx can help with that | 15:05 |
| mnaser | and opendev/system-config maybe we can ask for fungi or clarkb help for that one | 15:05 |
| gmann | recheck them to have zuul green | 15:05 |
| gmann | ah we have rebase issue https://review.opendev.org/c/osf/openstack-map/+/767236/2/deployment_tools.yaml | 15:06 |
| mnaser | tc-members: please review https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/767056 so we can land this | 15:06 |
| gmann | i can fix that quickly | 15:06 |
| fungi | i'll take a look at the opendev patches for that now | 15:06 |
| mnaser | we can remove that action item for the upcoming meetings, i think it's just an open review topic for now | 15:06 |
| mnaser | thank you fungi ! | 15:06 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:06 |
| mnaser | next up was tc-members review and leave comments on the etherpad for SIG updates <= i think we can leave that for the discusion item later | 15:07 |
| mnaser | mnaser continue to sync with tripleo team to reduce usage < also can be left for the discussion point later | 15:07 |
| mnaser | qa team to land parallelizing changes for devstack < we can probably leave this also for teh gate performance discussion point if y'all are okay with it? | 15:07 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:08 |
| mnaser | ok cool | 15:08 |
| mnaser | #topic Audit SIG list and chairs (diablo_rojo) | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Audit SIG list and chairs (diablo_rojo) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:08 | |
| mnaser | tc-members: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2021-SIG-Updates -- please review this to help diablo_rojo and ricolin go over auditing those | 15:09 |
| mnaser | as well as the attached reviews | 15:09 |
| mnaser | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-January/019994.html | 15:09 |
| mnaser | ok, time to get into the heavier subjects :) | 15:10 |
| mnaser | #topic Gate performance and heavy job configs (dansmith) | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate performance and heavy job configs (dansmith) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:10 | |
| dansmith | yo | 15:10 |
| mnaser | on my site, I reached out to the TripleO team and they most definitely are working on improving/reducing the footprint -- it was brought up in their meeting a few days ago | 15:11 |
| dansmith | so, I've been working (with gracious help from fungi and clarkb) on trying to figure out what metrics we can generate and use to try to quantify the relative weights of jobs in each project | 15:11 |
| dansmith | and the results are pretty interesting | 15:11 |
| dansmith | the two worst offenders, by far, are tripleo and neutron and I too have had good response from both teams in my reaching out | 15:12 |
| mnaser | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tripleo/2021/tripleo.2021-02-02-14.00.log.html#l-37 | 15:12 |
| dansmith | I've got a hacky tool to do some measurement and I'm planning an email to the list after this meeting to share some of the important numbers | 15:12 |
| dansmith | I hope that some awareness will yield some initial good-faith trimming of jobs | 15:12 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:12 |
| dansmith | I think the TC could also use this data and try to determine some target "weights" for jobs to try to keep things reasonable, | 15:13 |
| dansmith | because again this week, lag times have been pretty bad.. not horrific, but definitely more than a day to get anything useful done | 15:13 |
| fungi | in particular, i like that your tool can show the aggregate node utilization for a single build, which makes it more striking in side-by-side comparisons between different jobs what the relative costs for them are | 15:13 |
| gmann | also this can be good thing to monitor in Tact SIG | 15:13 |
| gmann | something like weekly or monthly usage on ML | 15:14 |
| fungi | gmann: yep, discussions so far have been in the context of the tact sig, in our irc channel | 15:14 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:14 |
| dansmith | yeah, I'd like to revisit this periodically and look at trends and identify things that make jobs suddenly worse | 15:14 |
| dansmith | but we also really need to get people to work on fixing the spurious failures, of which we have a lot these days | 15:14 |
| dansmith | as well as turning an eye to improving efficiency of what we're testing | 15:14 |
| mnaser | on that note too, the tripleo team brought up a really good point which was -- having a target set for how much utilization they should have | 15:15 |
| mnaser | "you're using too much" -- "how much should we be using" is a very fair question to ask | 15:15 |
| fungi | yeah, i get the impression a lot of these jobs test mostly the exact same things, rather than only testing what other jobs aren't covering | 15:15 |
| dansmith | yeah, and this script gives us a way to weigh a patch, wehich we can then say "should be X instead of currently Y" | 15:15 |
| dansmith | fungi: yes, we really need to spend time making sure that's not too overlappy | 15:15 |
| dansmith | I think tripleo is probably better than most at only testing a smaller subset, especially after they make their proposed changes | 15:16 |
| gmann | and also combining the jobs when testing with same config can helpful . there are lot of jobs separated out per set of tests not config | 15:16 |
| dansmith | partially because one run is so heavy that they're not inclined to add more of those | 15:16 |
| dansmith | but nova has a ton of overlap, | 15:16 |
| dansmith | and I've already proposed some reduction there and more can be done | 15:16 |
| dansmith | so anyway, that's my status for the moment | 15:17 |
| mnaser | i do think it does still bring back a really good point of "how much usage should we be at?" | 15:17 |
| mnaser | projects have historically never had any 'quotas' | 15:17 |
| gmann | for tripleo question: can we set a cap for each project utilization ? it should be done based on nature of testing at project not equal to each project | 15:17 |
| gmann | yeah, that one | 15:17 |
| dansmith | gmann: we can't, currently | 15:18 |
| dansmith | there is fair queuing across projects, | 15:18 |
| dansmith | but projects like tripleo have many trees, and it's definitely not a quota | 15:18 |
| dansmith | I have to step away for something important right now, so we can move on | 15:18 |
| gmann | yeah but if we set current-working-time(after optimization when we say current is fine now) as quota so that it does not goes high in future or can be seen if it goes | 15:19 |
| mnaser | it looks like we do have some actionable things out of this which is reaching out to the ML and bringing this up and it seems within the tact sig there is work and efforts | 15:20 |
| mnaser | in order to try and watch what is happening | 15:20 |
| dansmith | well, a target quota is good, but doesn't enforce anything, and enforcing quotas are not an option at the moment | 15:20 |
| dansmith | yup yup | 15:20 |
| dansmith | look for my email tome soon | 15:20 |
| mnaser | yes, i agree, just a target that we can all agree on :) | 15:20 |
| jungleboyj | It would seem having a benchmark so we see when a project is suddenly consuming more is at least a good starting point. | 15:20 |
| jungleboyj | Raise a flag before things get bad. | 15:21 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:21 |
| mnaser | #action dansmith reach out to ML regarding node usage | 15:22 |
| mnaser | #action tact-sig review/trend project usage to raise flags before things "get bad" | 15:22 |
| mnaser | #topic Dropping lower-constraints testing from all projects (gmann) | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Dropping lower-constraints testing from all projects (gmann) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:22 | |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:23 |
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| mnaser | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-January/019672.html | 15:23 |
| mnaser | i know there was a few alternatives proposed which were being implemented in nova | 15:23 |
| gmann | I am testing with direct deps only in nova and placement | 15:24 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:%22l-c-direct-deps-only%22+(status:open%20OR%20status:merged) | 15:24 |
| gmann | it is under progress as it is not yet green | 15:24 |
| gmann | once I finish that then i can push result on ML | 15:24 |
| mnaser | should we keep this a topic to continue to discuss in the TC meeting? | 15:25 |
| fungi | just be prepared to rip those out when stable branches are created. if you're not constraining your indirect dependencies then they will change over time and become incompatible | 15:25 |
| gmann | for stable, I think we should remove it | 15:25 |
| gmann | mnaser: we need to get consensus in TC but may be after we finish the discussion in ML | 15:26 |
| mnaser | ok so i think it is still productive to keep it open | 15:26 |
| gmann | may be we can drop it for now and once we are ready to discuss in TC then we can add | 15:26 |
| mnaser | i'm okay with that too | 15:26 |
| gmann | yeah either way is ok, | 15:26 |
| rosmaita | so it sounds like the direction is keep the job in master only and for direct dependencies only? | 15:26 |
| gmann | rosmaita: I am testing that if that work fine or need more work. will post the result on ML | 15:27 |
| rosmaita | ok, great | 15:27 |
| gmann | let me add test for cinder too | 15:27 |
| rosmaita | i have no objection to that idea | 15:27 |
| gmann | yeah that surly can reduce the maintenance effort | 15:28 |
| mnaser | ok cool, gmann: your call on keeping it on the discussion list | 15:29 |
| mnaser | sorry, agenda rathert | 15:29 |
| gmann | ok | 15:29 |
| gmann | I can drop/keep it based on ML discussion. like nothing to discuss then drop | 15:30 |
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| gmann | before next Wed | 15:30 |
| mnaser | ok that sounds like a good idea | 15:30 |
| * diablo_rojo sneaks in late | 15:30 | |
| mnaser | #action gmann continue to follow-up on using direct dependencies for l-c jobs | 15:30 |
| mnaser | o/ diablo_rojo | 15:30 |
| mnaser | #topic Mistral Maintenance (gmann) | 15:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mistral Maintenance (gmann) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:31 | |
| mnaser | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2021-February/020137.html | 15:31 |
| * jungleboyj marks diablo_rojo tardy | 15:31 | |
| mnaser | didnt.. or does.. tripleo use mistral? | 15:31 |
| gmann | humm do not know that. | 15:31 |
| dansmith | not anymore I don't think | 15:31 |
| dansmith | could be wrong | 15:31 |
| fungi | i thought they did at one point | 15:31 |
| fungi | but yeah, i vaguely recall they stopped a while back | 15:31 |
| mnaser | i think they dropped mistral in favour of using ansible | 15:32 |
| mnaser | i.. think | 15:32 |
| mnaser | https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/tripleo-specs/specs/ussuri/mistral-to-ansible.html | 15:32 |
| mnaser | which was implemetned in ussuri-3 | 15:33 |
| mnaser | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tripleo/+spec/tripleo-mistral-to-ansible | 15:33 |
| mnaser | so that was a big consumer that droped off | 15:33 |
| mnaser | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/project:openstack/mistral | 15:33 |
| mnaser | ~100 changes or so in the past year | 15:33 |
| gmann | other project using it is Tacker which is optional integration afaik and work without mistral too. As discussed with one of the Tacker member they will discuss it and see what they can do, either help in mistral or deprecate the support. | 15:34 |
| mnaser | i think it will become more tricky when we'll have to figure out a ptl for the project | 15:34 |
| mnaser | but maybe a distributed leadership model could work because it is a very low volume project right now | 15:34 |
| gmann | yeah Renat mentioned he will not be able to run as PTL in next election | 15:35 |
| gmann | mnaser: but do we have any other maintainer there other than Renat ? | 15:35 |
| gmann | may be there are. | 15:36 |
| mnaser | i see some patches by `ali.abdelal@nokia.com` | 15:36 |
| mnaser | https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/mistral/+/755481 | 15:36 |
| mnaser | and i see Eyal too making reviews | 15:36 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:36 |
| mnaser | #link https://review.opendev.org/admin/groups/19588f2c593d37749e32bc5400365f654c683d19,members | 15:36 |
| gmann | Distributed leadership will be helpful but let's see | 15:36 |
| belmoreira | do we know the user adoption of Mistral? | 15:37 |
| gmann | other thing i was thinking to add it in newsletter to convey about it need maintainer... | 15:37 |
| gmann | belmoreira: good point. | 15:37 |
| mnaser | belmoreira: that's a good question, maybe user survey data can help with this | 15:37 |
| fungi | might be able to figure out some percentage of user survey respondents who claimed to be using it? | 15:38 |
| mnaser | gmann: maybe we can reach out to mistral-core before that | 15:38 |
| fungi | jinx | 15:38 |
| gmann | one I know is via Tacker in NEC/NTT japan which we are checking option to go woth non-mistral way | 15:38 |
| belmoreira | mnaser *I'm trying to find out* | 15:38 |
| gmann | mnaser: +1, | 15:38 |
| * mnaser looks at aprice | 15:38 | |
| mnaser | oh wait i'm mblind, there is a 'projects used in production deployments' | 15:39 |
| mnaser | under 'deployments' https://www.openstack.org/analytics | 15:39 |
| fungi | it's amazing how she answers your questions before you even know you have them | 15:39 |
| mnaser | so this shows .. i think .. 8% proudction, 4% testing, 13% interested | 15:39 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:40 |
| belmoreira | this is 2019 data it will great to get the latest | 15:40 |
| belmoreira | maybe aprice can help | 15:40 |
| fungi | all it shows to me is that we need to drop a few projects so that graph won't be unreadably crowded ;) | 15:40 |
| aprice | o/ | 15:40 |
| jungleboyj | fungi: ++ | 15:41 |
| belmoreira | fungi :) | 15:41 |
| aprice | in another meeting simultaneously - is there a tl;dr on the current user survey request? | 15:41 |
| mnaser | aprice: 2020 data :) | 15:41 |
| gmann | fungi: or divide into separate category based on usage like high vs low or so? | 15:42 |
| aprice | ah yes, i didnt realize that wasn't on o.o/analytics yet. i can work with jimmy to get that live soon | 15:42 |
| aprice | probably in the next 1-2 days | 15:42 |
| mnaser | cool, awesome! | 15:42 |
| aprice | but if there's a specific data point yall need sooner, lmk | 15:42 |
| mnaser | aprice: % of usage of mistral in prod environments | 15:42 |
| aprice | mnaser: ok - i can pull that in like an hour or so and drop it back in this channel | 15:42 |
| mnaser | aprice: yay thank you! | 15:42 |
| aprice | np! | 15:42 |
| mnaser | so we'll have that info, anyone would like to volunteer to reach out to the current maintainers? | 15:43 |
| gmann | for 'you need help' ? | 15:43 |
| mnaser | yes, to try and see if any of them would like to run into ptl next release | 15:44 |
| gmann | ok | 15:44 |
| mnaser | so we can try to get ahead of the troubled waters ahead :-) | 15:44 |
| gmann | i can do that | 15:44 |
| mnaser | thanks gmann | 15:44 |
| mnaser | #action gmann reach out to mistral maintainers about PTL for next cycle | 15:44 |
| ricolin | gmann, let me help you with that too | 15:44 |
| mnaser | #undo | 15:44 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #action gmann reach out to mistral maintainers about PTL for next cycle | 15:44 |
| mnaser | #action gmann/ricolin reach out to mistral maintainers about PTL for next cycle | 15:44 |
| mnaser | :> | 15:44 |
| gmann | sure | 15:44 |
| mnaser | so with the combination of anyone stepping up + usage in the wild as suggested by belmoreira, we should be able to take a decision with the project's direction | 15:45 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:45 |
| mnaser | cool, thanks for bringing up gmann | 15:46 |
| mnaser | #topic Open Reviews | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Reviews (Meeting topic: tc)" | 15:46 | |
| mnaser | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/project:openstack/governance+is:open | 15:46 |
| mnaser | i'm going to go over a few that need to be merged noew | 15:47 |
| mnaser | https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/770616 | 15:50 |
| mnaser | this really could use more votes | 15:50 |
| mnaser | https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/773383 also can help the osa team land things | 15:50 |
| gmann | done | 15:52 |
| jungleboyj | Done. | 15:52 |
| jungleboyj | I want to read the cool down one again. Will do that. | 15:52 |
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| mnaser | cool, dansmith had some concerns too, so appreciate a review on https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/770616 when possible | 15:54 |
| jungleboyj | Done. I think the wording is positive enough while communicating our reasons. | 15:54 |
| dansmith | yeah I don't think my concerns were addressed, but they weren't super important | 15:55 |
| jungleboyj | Don't quit, but work on what you want to do. | 15:55 |
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| mnaser | dansmith: i'm happy to revise if you want if you feel strongly about the concerns :) | 15:56 |
| dansmith | I know, I'll try to hit it again after this | 15:56 |
| mnaser | cool, no problem | 15:56 |
| mnaser | and also some of those applications for projects that have historically been very interop-y -- https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/773684 (cinder) and https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/773090 (neutron) | 15:57 |
| mnaser | those cant land yet but earlier reviews is helpful | 15:57 |
| mnaser | gmann: this might be at a standstill https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/771785 -- i think we'll have to ping the monasca team to properly deprecate it | 15:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-sigs master: Add Dirk Mueller as Packaging SIG co-chair https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance-sigs/+/772881 | 15:58 |
| gmann | yeah, I will check with them or if they need help | 15:58 |
| mnaser | cool, awesome, we wer eable to clear out most of our queue | 15:58 |
| gmann | \o/ | 15:59 |
| ricolin | ：） | 15:59 |
| mnaser | thanks for coming everyone! | 15:59 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add rbd-iscsi-client to cinder project https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/772597 | 15:59 |
| mnaser | very productive | 15:59 |
| mnaser | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Technical Committee office hours: Tuesdays at 09:00 UTC, Wednesdays at 01:00 UTC, and Thursdays at 15:00 UTC | https://governance.openstack.org/tc/ | channel logs http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 4 15:59:54 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-02-04-15.01.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-02-04-15.01.txt | 15:59 |
| diablo_rojo | Thanks mnaser! | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-02-04-15.01.log.html | 16:00 |
| ricolin | thanks mnaser | 16:00 |
| gmann | thanks | 16:00 |
| gmann | diablo_rojo: ttx resolved the merge conflict in retire-karbor openstack-map patch, its green now - https://review.opendev.org/c/osf/openstack-map/+/767236 | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | Yay! Thanks mnaser ! | 16:00 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Define 2021 upstream investment opportunities https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/771707 | 16:00 |
| diablo_rojo | Thanks ttx! | 16:00 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Define Xena release testing runtime https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/770860 | 16:00 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Remove Karbor project team https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/767056 | 16:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-sigs master: Update automation and multi-arch SIGs https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance-sigs/+/772483 | 16:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Create ansible-role-pki repo https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/773383 | 16:06 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: [manila] add assert:supports-api-interoperability https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/770859 | 16:07 |
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| ttx | thanks gmann ! | 17:00 |
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| aprice | mnaser: (and others who were asking) - here is the mistral data for production environments in 2020: 5% in production, 6% testing and 21% interested | 18:50 |
| aprice | ive put in a ticket to publish the 2020 data on openstack.org/analytics and can let you all know when that's live | 18:50 |
| aprice | for now, im happy to pull any data yall need. and mnaser, please tag anyone who may be looking for that :) | 18:50 |
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| jungleboyj | dansmith: Good note on the resource usage. Thanks! | 19:22 |
| dansmith | thanks | 19:22 |
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| mnaser | aprice: thank you! | 19:59 |
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