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| mnaser | o/ | 01:03 |
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| gmann | o/ | 01:03 |
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| slaweq_ | njohnston: sorry, I wasn't there yesterday. neutron-vpnaas isn't retired and we don't consider it to be retired for now | 07:27 |
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| AJaeger | mnaser: for your retirement email, I suggest to differentiate these two: 1) Repos retired and dead - but somehow incorrectly. | 07:31 |
| AJaeger | 2) Repos retired but still alive | 07:31 |
| AJaeger | For example, python-dracclient is in legacy.yaml but still alive, so might get a different treatment than the others. | 07:32 |
| AJaeger | So, check which of these are still active: dragonflow networking-l2gw networking-l2gw-tempest-plugin networking-onos openstack-ux python-dracclient solum-infra-guestagent transparency-policy - and tread them separate. | 07:32 |
| AJaeger | These repos went not through the retirement process as all. smcginnis just started it for dragonflow but it needs done for the rest as well. | 07:35 |
| AJaeger | mnaser: I added a section in the etherpad | 07:37 |
| AJaeger | mnaser: your list is also wrong, having README.rst is the right thing | 07:38 |
| AJaeger | mnaser: I would not add .gitreview file just for the fun of it. It's good for deprecating (only stopping master work) but not needed for these, so I suggest to cut down your list and accept if .gitreview is not in the repo. | 07:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | Aurelien Lourot proposed openstack/governance master: Add Neutron Arista plugin charm to OpenStack charms https://review.opendev.org/737734 | 10:03 |
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| jungleboyj | o/ | 12:58 |
| mnaser | AJaeger: my list is a starter for something to work on... I think if we’re gonna normalize it all might just as well as do it. We tell people not to drop gitreview file... | 13:07 |
| smcginnis | We don't want to have to go back and update everything the next time we decide to change guidance on this though. I think the ones that were done before we made that a recommendation, we should just leave them as they are. | 13:20 |
| knikolla | o/ | 13:24 |
| knikolla | thanks for the feedback, i will update the draft based on the received feedback. | 13:25 |
| AJaeger | mnaser: we initially told them to drop gitreview and changed that later. And .gitreview missing is not a problem with a complete retired repo, this is crucial for deprecation (where you have master retired but still stable changes) | 13:28 |
| mnaser | AJaeger: my biggest thing is how do we make sure we properly test that everything is properly retired.. and I’m also willing to make sure the work is done :x | 13:29 |
| mnaser | I feel like I’m getting a lot of pushback trying to drive this when it really doesn’t affect much more the acl change | 13:30 |
| AJaeger | mnaser: if you want to do it, go for it - I think it is easier to allow a .gitreview missing on older repos. Just hardcode those repos. | 13:30 |
| mnaser | AJaeger: fair enough, if we’re going to soft retire them, we can do that later or change our minds | 13:31 |
| AJaeger | soft retire? I'm only talking about repos like fairy-slipper that are fully retired but had the .gitreview removed. | 13:35 |
| AJaeger | mnaser: did you get my point on the two different kind of repos above? | 13:35 |
| smcginnis | Well, the other issue if we make updates is we no longer have the consistent pattern of telling folks to "git reset HEAD~1" to get the last content. | 13:36 |
| smcginnis | And the last updated date would be recent, even if the project hasn't really been touched for years. | 13:36 |
| AJaeger | smcginnis: yeah, you would need to update README.rst to say ~2 | 13:36 |
| smcginnis | Just seems like there are more important things to be spending time on. Like making sure the ones that are retired have actually been retired. | 13:37 |
| AJaeger | smcginnis, agreed, my priority would be to look at these first: dragonflow networking-l2gw networking-l2gw-tempest-plugin networking-onos openstack-ux python-dracclient solum-infra-guestagent transparency-policy | 13:38 |
| AJaeger | ... and I know you started already with dragonflow, smcginnis | 13:38 |
| smcginnis | I can try to get to some of the others soon. | 13:49 |
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| smcginnis | Need to figure out what should happen with python-dracclient. That's actually very active and in use in Ironic. It just left ironic as an official repo, but never was moved to a new home. | 13:49 |
| AJaeger | smcginnis: according to the TC resolution: Retire in openstack and the team can recreate in another namespace like x. | 13:51 |
| mnaser | AJaeger: soft retire as in we can still propose changes to them if need-be | 13:51 |
| mnaser | but yes, i see the point about those projects who are 'retired' but still have content as a priority. | 13:52 |
| AJaeger | mnaser: for those retired ones, do it once and be done with it ;) | 13:52 |
| mnaser | i've taken 3 different approaches so far which have all taken a signficant chunk of time to do only to be told "no" | 13:53 |
| mnaser | and now if i go and add an exception list to the validate legacy job, i feel like a) sucks we have a list of 'badly retired projects' and b) who knows if that doesn't make people happy :) | 13:53 |
| AJaeger | mnaser: 'badly retired projects' is in the eye of the beholder, repos that removed .gitreview were properly retired at the time of retirement. And then we changed policies. The same with README.md vs README.rst, that was updated a week ago. | 14:06 |
| AJaeger | So, I would not speak about "badly retired" but just say: WE changed policies and those confirmed to the previous one but not the new one... | 14:06 |
| openstackgerrit | Aurelien Lourot proposed openstack/governance master: Add Neutron Arista plugin charm to OpenStack charms https://review.opendev.org/737734 | 14:11 |
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| gmann | o/ | 14:43 |
| mnaser | AJaeger: sorry, poor usage of words. | 14:44 |
| AJaeger | np | 14:44 |
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| clarkb | AJaeger: yes that change in needs is why I'm suggesting we should switch openstack retirements to a softer retirement | 15:00 |
| clarkb | AJaeger: allow a small group to push edits and keep the project open in gerrit | 15:00 |
| clarkb | because that is the underlying issue. We did what was correct for some time ago and now it needs to change. Some time in the future it seems likely we'll repeat this history | 15:00 |
| smcginnis | If we keep retired projects open, then we are going to get all those mass script driveby's to it. | 15:11 |
| clarkb | smcginnis: we can restrict push access to a small group | 15:11 |
| smcginnis | And our instructions on how to revert back to the last working code will constantly be needing to be updated along with everything too. | 15:11 |
| clarkb | smcginnis: only if you continue to make changes (which is already the case) | 15:11 |
| clarkb | to be claer I am on team let retired projects be retired and move on. But I understand the need/use case here and i think a softer retirement fits that need better than what we have now | 15:12 |
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| clarkb | what we have now is incredibly clunky if we accept that retired projects may need to be modified every few years to address some issue | 15:13 |
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| gmann | mnaser: i am starting the cleanup for networking-l2gw-tempest-plugin (and its project repo) which has been in tempest plugins blacklist - https://docs.openstack.org/tempest/latest/plugins/plugin-registry#blacklisted-plugins | 15:19 |
| gmann | i am iterating on other plugins also which are in blacklist for long and under openstack/ namespace. 1. if it is retired then move to other namespace otherwise 3. start the retirement as they are failing and no one cares | 15:20 |
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| gmann | slaweq: any objection on moving networking-l2gw-tempest-plugin ,networking-l2gw and also networking-onos from openstack/ namespace. if there is active them then can fork it to continue the development under x/ or anyother namespace. all these repo were retired in ocata - https://review.opendev.org/#/c/392010/2 | 15:31 |
| slaweq | gmann: those projects aren't neutron stadium AFAIK | 15:32 |
| gmann | networking-l2gw-tempest-plugin was a late entry in openstack/ namespace without being a official repo anytime. | 15:32 |
| clarkb | gmann: note aiui you don't move them from the openstack/ namespace | 15:32 |
| clarkb | gmann: you retire them in the openstack/ namespace and give people option of forking elsewhere | 15:32 |
| gmann | clarkb: yeah. | 15:32 |
| gmann | move away i mean retire and then active can fork if they want | 15:32 |
| gmann | slaweq: from 392010, they are not stadium anymore but i want to check in case you have any plan for them? | 15:33 |
| gmann | plan to add in stadium or any active team under neutron maintaining those | 15:33 |
| slaweq | gmann: I don't have any plans | 15:34 |
| gmann | ok | 15:34 |
| slaweq | and I don't think that anybody in our team wants to do anything with it | 15:34 |
| gmann | slaweq: ok, thanks. | 15:34 |
| slaweq | yw | 15:34 |
| fungi | smcginnis: mnaser's proposed acl change for retired openstack namespace repos prevents anyone besides the tc from pushing changes for review | 15:45 |
| smcginnis | Yeah. That part is good. | 15:45 |
| fungi | so should avoid the usual drive-by noise unless tc members are generating it ;) | 15:45 |
| smcginnis | Still would prefer to leave retired projects retired though. | 15:46 |
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| fungi | also i have a feeling we need to sync up with the ironic team (as former caretakers) and the current maintainers of openstack/python-dracclient so they at least know what's going on before we retire them. looks like they've still got ongoing development and are tagging releases and publishing to pypi through that repo, and the github mirror for it is still intact too | 15:56 |
| AJaeger | fungi: there's no github mirroring setup for dracclient. | 15:57 |
| AJaeger | fungi: I agree, dracclient is "special" | 15:57 |
| fungi | AJaeger: yeah, the mirroring is no longer happening, but there's still an abandoned mirror of it in openstack's github org as of when we stopped replication from gerrit | 15:58 |
| clarkb | and there are many recent commits and releases | 15:58 |
| gmann | or if ironic team maintaining than it is good to bring it under governance | 15:58 |
| fungi | seems like it's probably just devs at dell maintaining it, not sure how involved in the rest of ironic they are | 15:59 |
| smcginnis | They are pretty involved. | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | I'm trying to work with the team to figure out the best way forward. | 16:00 |
| fungi | https://review.openstack.org/392685 "python-dracclient is intended to only interact with a single vendor's hardware, which the ironic team decided we no longer wish to maintain in ironic's governance. It will continue to be maintained outside of the ironic governance." | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | The options I've given the team, that we would need to discuss here or in #opendev, would be to see if the community is open to accepting some sort of Dell focused SIG (kind of along the lines of PowerVM and Windows SIGs), move to the x/ namespace, see if OpenDev is willing to host a dell/ namespace, or move out of the community completely. | 16:03 |
| smcginnis | That last one is the least attractive to me since I believe there is some cross gating currently with ironic patches. | 16:04 |
| fungi | looks like the removal for that repo coincided with this addition/clarification in ironic's deliverable policy: "must not be intended for use with only a single vendor’s hardware" https://docs.openstack.org/ironic/latest/contributor/governance.html#what-belongs-in-ironic-governance | 16:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Zane Bitter proposed openstack/governance master: Create starter-kit:kubernetes-in-virt tag https://review.opendev.org/736369 | 16:12 |
| fungi | smcginnis: from a namespace perspective, i don't think opendev would have any problem hosting a "dell/" namespace (we have "limestone/" and "vexxhost/" for example) | 16:14 |
| fungi | smcginnis: if there are reservations about that name, i would expect them to come from dell legal, if anywhere | 16:15 |
| smcginnis | I may know a guy. :) | 16:18 |
| smcginnis | That really was my recommendation out of the options I gave. | 16:18 |
| smcginnis | SIG would be nice to be recognized officially and to be able to publish to docs.o.o. But not sure if that would be perceived well since it would be so vendor focused. | 16:18 |
| smcginnis | They would like others involved though, so a nice thing about that would be to make that a little easier. | 16:19 |
| smcginnis | But still a vendor controlled thing by its nature, so not really a right fit I think. | 16:19 |
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| fungi | we've had this discussion for years, unfortunately. the push for vendor-specific "driver projects" as an alternative allowance in governance never got much traction | 16:41 |
| fungi | we also now have inherently single-affiliation services (just this week one ptl told me they were their project's only contributor) so seems like we wouldn't even need a special allowance | 16:43 |
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