| mnaser | tc-members: https://review.opendev.org/#/c/734074/ has enough votes but it would be nice for it to have more before being due to land. | 00:24 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Remove mox3 from governance https://review.opendev.org/736754 | 10:09 |
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| njohnston_ | o/ | 12:34 |
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| gmann | o/ | 13:51 |
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| mnaser | fungi, ttx: i feel like you may be able to provide context the most about this, but any reason why our urls inside our projects.yaml point to the wiki page and not the official homepage for the project inside docs.o.o ? | 14:34 |
| mnaser | i feel like that's a much more maintained space | 14:35 |
| mnaser | like i'm going through them and the designate page talks about it being incubated | 14:35 |
| mnaser | placement seems to go to their doc though | 14:36 |
| mnaser | this makes me feel like having a project-specific 'homepage' space seems like a wise thing, which could be managed by the core team | 14:36 |
| mnaser | and we can kill all those project-specific wiki pages, we can enforce some sort of standard that pulls the generics from project.yaml too, to have some sort of consistency | 14:37 |
| fungi | mnaser: because historically projects didn't have much in the way of independent team documentation other than in team-specific wiki pages | 14:37 |
| fungi | but yes this seems fairly fixable now | 14:38 |
| fungi | especially with the recent goal for contributor docs | 14:38 |
| openstackgerrit | Zane Bitter proposed openstack/governance master: Create starter-kit:kubernetes-in-virt tag https://review.opendev.org/736369 | 14:39 |
| zaneb | mnaser: that ^ was to fix a horrible typo, not wipe out your vote. sorry for the bad timing | 14:40 |
| mnaser | zaneb: all good :) i'm not worried, thanks | 14:40 |
| ttx | mnaser: they point to whatever you put in "url" | 14:40 |
| * zaneb was juuuust too slow :D | 14:41 | |
| ttx | mnaser: the reason was to point at team documentation, not a specific deliverable doc | 14:41 |
| mnaser | ttx: ah, yes, that's a pretty good point. | 14:41 |
| gmann | qa is one example for that. we do not have centric doc yet other than wiki | 14:42 |
| ttx | mnaser: the "project teams" page is more for contributors wanting to join a team really, so pointing to "team doc" is good. Like when the meeting is etc | 14:43 |
| zaneb | ttx: I feel like we've crossed that bridge now though, with the contributor guide goal forcing every team to choose a deliverable's repo in which to place team-wide documentation | 14:43 |
| ttx | zaneb: if there is a better place than the wiki for team doc, then we can update the URL | 14:43 |
| fungi | yep, that's what i was subtly alluding to with "this seems fairly fixable now, especially with the recent goal for contributor docs" | 14:44 |
| ttx | the page is dumb and will just use whatever you set in url :) | 14:44 |
| zaneb | ttx: maybe we should update them to point to the contributor guide docs if they're aimed at contributors? | 14:44 |
| mnaser | i think its just a reference point | 14:45 |
| ttx | zaneb: they should point to how to contact the team, really | 14:45 |
| fungi | the infra team always pointed at its system-config docs rather than a wiki page, because that's where it documented team process and how to get started contributing to the team | 14:45 |
| fungi | (and also where to find the team in irc, mailing list, and so on) | 14:45 |
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| fungi | and yeah, if new contributor docs don't also introduce the team and say where/how to find them with questions, then that needs fixing too | 14:46 |
| gmann | i think it is for large audience not just for new contributor, checking overall page for that project which can navigate to all guides including installation, users, contributors etc | 14:47 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Record deprecated cycle for deprecated project https://review.opendev.org/736084 | 14:48 |
| mnaser | gmann: ^ feel free to start your follow ups :) | 14:49 |
| gmann | sure, | 14:49 |
| fungi | ultimately it can be a link to whatever the team's leadership thinks people who are looking at the governance entry for them are expecting from a team home page | 14:49 |
| gmann | but most of team has main repo doc which can be used. if team does not has main repo doc like QA then stay with wiki till they have | 14:50 |
| mnaser | fungi: i see an interesting approach of providing projects.openstack.org and having a framework for projects to be able to have their own pages (which they can even have serveralias-es for), i think a team like ironic might be interested by this | 14:50 |
| mnaser | i know monasca has their own stuff but it's a little uncomfortable for me about the story of who-owns-the-site-and-the-domain: https://monasca.io | 14:50 |
| * mnaser can gladly offer domain registration at cost and defer credentials to manage those domains to the opendev team i guess (or $some_other_group), tact might not be best fitting | 14:51 | |
| * smcginnis raises eyebrows at monasca.io | 14:59 | |
| clarkb | mnaser: fwiw we did that, see also https://swift.openstack.org | 15:00 |
| clarkb | the problem was that it didn't scale wel | 15:00 |
| clarkb | mnaser: smcginnis: also http://tripleo.org | 15:02 |
| ttx | mnaser: if the wiki was less chaotic and ugly, I think it could serve as "project space". Which is why I looked into xwiki which has support for subwikis and nested pages with clear ownership | 15:28 |
| mnaser | ttx: i feel like anything that's not code review managed struggles inside openstack ;p | 15:30 |
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| fungi | it's the case outside openstack too. see the popularity of "github pages" | 15:34 |
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| mnaser | ttx: thanks of the merge tc/uc stuff, it's in flight now landing, is there anything we should remember to do post-landing of this? | 17:18 |
| mnaser | i guess jimmy and aprice worked the most with the UC and for them to be aware of those changes. i assume the board and community members interested in knowing this has happened can just make sure to see the weekly emails i sent :) | 17:19 |
| mnaser | tc-members: diablo_rojo_phon put a lot of effort in iterating on https://review.opendev.org/#/c/732983/6 -- i think it is in an good state to land and we can make follow-ups if needed, so kindly ask you to please review that change | 17:21 |
| mnaser | and also https://review.opendev.org/#/c/736737/ (already depends on the charter change) so we can merge both on monday if we have no conflicts | 17:22 |
| mnaser | which would mean hopefully by monday we only have 2 open changes :) | 17:22 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Merging TC and UC into a single body https://review.opendev.org/734074 | 17:28 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Update joining-tc.rst to be general tc-guide.rst https://review.opendev.org/732983 | 19:55 |
| mnaser | diablo_rojo_phon: ^ there is some follow-ups requested by the overall community if you wanna do that :) | 19:56 |
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| diablo_rojo_phon | Yeah I can definitely handle that mnaser | 19:59 |
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| zaneb | mnaser: what do you mean by "service VMs" in that comment? | 21:21 |
| zaneb | (https://review.opendev.org/#/c/736369/4/reference/tags/starter-kit_kubernetes-in-virt.rst@52 for those following along at home) | 21:21 |
| zaneb | oh, I think I get it now after reading Tom's comment again | 21:22 |
| fungi | i won a copy of the home game as a consolation prize | 21:23 |
| clarkb | I read it as "if you've already got cinder providing storage to manila on service VMs then cinder is already present and a valid option" | 21:24 |
| clarkb | but it turns out manila can run happily without cinder so that assumption doesn't hold | 21:24 |
| fungi | along with a year's supply of rice-a-roni (the san francisco treat!) | 21:24 |
| smcginnis | My take as well. | 21:24 |
| zaneb | yep, that's what I settled on | 21:25 |
| fungi | the cinder-csi tie ins are likely a better argument for inclusion than its potential as a manila backend | 21:25 |
| fungi | but also, as stated, this is more about a minimal set to provide a useful solution for the use case | 21:26 |
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| zaneb | the best argument for including Cinder is that it might be more useful for *other* workloads you have on OpenStack, and in some cases if you have it already that might be good enough to run k8s also | 21:28 |
| fungi | right, similar to the kuryr use case | 21:29 |
| clarkb | I could see it also being useful for rook | 21:29 |
| zaneb | which is documented on line 127 | 21:29 |
| clarkb | as modern ceph wants raw devices | 21:29 |
| fungi | those likely are suited to a different deployment model which could be a different tag like starter-kit:hybrid-container-cloud | 21:29 |
| zaneb | clarkb: that's an interesting point | 21:29 |
| clarkb | (older ceph used filesystems) | 21:30 |
| smcginnis | I think as far as a minimal configuration goes, and speaking as a Cinder person, having a base of just manila is a better minimum viable product than using cinder. | 21:30 |
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| mnaser | tc-members: i've reached out to the kubernetes steering committee to see if we can engage them in all of these discussions -- https://groups.google.com/a/kubernetes.io/g/steering/c/VGjECFmk-cQ -- hoping to have some bites, i'll update :) | 23:45 |
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| mnaser | it would be helpful to have them help clear out some of our potential assumptions wrt block storage of file storage, etc | 23:45 |
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