Friday, 2019-11-22

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openstackgerritRico Lin proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Add SIG guideline  https://review.opendev.org/69536603:52
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openstackgerritRico Lin proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Tag advisory status for SIGs  https://review.opendev.org/69562504:22
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openstackgerritRico Lin proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Add SIG guideline  https://review.opendev.org/69536604:56
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openstackgerritRico Lin proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Tag advisory status for SIGs  https://review.opendev.org/69562507:38
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evrardjpo/09:36
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/project-team-guide master: Elaborate on Extended Maintenance to EOL transition  https://review.opendev.org/68238114:10
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rosmaitaanyone around who's familiar with the stable branch phases? cinder has ocata & pike in EM, and are interested in not maintaining them anymore15:35
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rosmaitado we announce that they are now 'Unmaintained' on the ML to start the 6 month clock?15:35
rosmaitai'm looking here to get my info: https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html15:39
njohnstony15:53
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njohnstonsorry wrong window15:53
mriedemrosmaita: not really defined. the resolution mentions it but not the 6 month window thing that is in the link above. https://governance.openstack.org/tc/resolutions/20180301-stable-branch-eol.html15:59
mriedemi'm not sure how other projects have done eol after em was a thing, tonyb would know15:59
mriedemso ML is the bare minimum i think,16:00
mriedemit would probably not be terrible to throw something at the top of the cinder docs home page for ocata https://docs.openstack.org/cinder/ocata/ and pike https://docs.openstack.org/cinder/pike/ saying essentially the branch/release is unmaintained and will go end of life on whatever date16:01
mriedemrosmaita: also if you look at the releases doc for pike https://releases.openstack.org/pike/index.html#service-projects cinder is listed as in extended maintenance, so there is likely some way to change that to unmaintained?16:02
mriedemdhellmann: ^?16:02
mriedemmy guess is that's based on the pike-em tag though16:02
mriedemand we don't have like a pike-unmaintained tag16:02
rosmaitamriedem: thanks for looking into this16:04
rosmaitai also had a question about how 'unmaintained' is described, it says basically EM but with no maintainers16:04
rosmaitai guess the real thing is no CI guarantee16:05
mriedemyeah i think the idea is it's like a final deprecation style period, more for signaling than anything, to move off it because it's going away16:05
mriedemno guarantees16:06
mriedemand if within that window some benevolent team shows up and kicks ass and wants to keep it alive and the project team is ok with that, then it can be put back into EM16:06
gmanno/16:06
mriedembut that's likely not going to happen else it wouldn't be going to Unmaintained in the first place16:06
rosmaitaright16:07
rosmaitaalso, if while it's Unmaintained, if some kind of security bug is found and the cinder team decided we should backport it as a public service, would that move it back to EM?16:07
mriedemno i don't think so16:08
rosmaitai guess the real issue is the CI16:08
mriedemwe (nova) have lots of open backports sitting in ocata and pike that are there for people to use (suse has a couple they really want to land in pike) but that doesn't mean they'll ever merge16:08
rosmaitatosky thinks that ocata may start breaking all over the place soon16:08
mriedemb/c red hat is at queens now so they don't care about ocata or pike16:08
gmannyeah, moving unmaintained ->Em->unmaintained is confusing. I fell unmaintained window should be shrink to 1 or 2 month max instead if 6.16:09
gmannof 616:09
toskythe ocata branch of devstack lacks a few changes, because most of the zuul v3 work started in pike (or it was backported to pike), but ocata was left a bit on the edge of two worlds16:09
rosmaitai see, so if we remove the CI from o & p, that would make the backport patches not real useful, because they didn't run against the check16:09
mriedemunit tests are a possibility for unmaintained16:10
toskyso the more we go with native zuul v3 and we start to use "newer" functions, ocata may just break16:10
mriedemwhen we talked about this in whatever older summit, we said that tempest can move on once a branch hits EM and that could mean breakages in the EM branches and unit tests might be the only things we can run16:10
mriedemit's a sliding scale of support16:10
rosmaitagmann: yes, the 6 month window is why i am worried about this now16:10
gmannocata CI should be ok with legacy jobs, all legacy jobs are kept for ocata16:11
mriedemthe 6 month window is large, especially given there is a note for EM, i.e. skip EM and just go straight to jail (EOL) https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#extended-maintenance16:11
mriedemso it's weird that you can skip EM and go to EOL but EM->Unmaintained->EOL is a 6 month window16:11
mriedemi think tonyb wrote the unmaintained phase docs so i blame him16:11
toskygmann: but this means we can't clean openstack-zuul-jobs16:11
toskyuhm, I wonder why the rule about moving back from unmaintained to EM was added; I personally think that unmaintained should be one way only, but ok16:12
gmanntosky: yes. but same case it will be for long time because many stable branches use legacy jobs like stable/train16:12
toskygmann: that's why I added "make sure nothing prevents the new native jobs from being backportable" in the proposed goal16:12
gmann+116:13
mriedemtosky: likely because anytime we as a community have ever talked about EOLing a branch, someone like oracle would show up and be like "OH NO YOU CANNOT DO THIS TO US!!!"16:13
mriedemso it's like i said above, a last gasp signal that the branch is going away16:13
toskyas a QE, working downstream means I should be happy that an upstream branch is kept alive longer, but I think we went a bit too far in the other direction :)16:14
mriedemif you want to be locked in a room with the same vendors complaining about EOL every gd summit forever, be my guest16:15
mriedemrosmaita: this is the review that added the unmaintained wording https://review.opendev.org/#/c/552733/16:15
mriedemif you want to try to glean discussion out of it16:15
toskymriedem: I understand it could be extremely painful, I agree16:16
rosmaitamriedem: thanks16:16
mriedemhttps://review.opendev.org/#/c/682381/ came later16:16
mriedemrosmaita: based on that ^ there is a caveat where you can just skip unmaintained16:16
mriedemlike skipping EM16:16
mriedemwould be helpful if smcginnis or ttx could comment on those since there weren't a lot of people on the review discussing it (like myself or tonyb)16:17
mriedemso we clearly have a conflict here https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#unmaintained since it says "Projects that remain in this state for 6 months will be transitioned to End of Life." and https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#end-of-life says "or a team decides to explicitly end support for a branch,"16:18
mriedemunless the former just means, unmaintained -> eol automatically after 6 months16:18
mriedemi'm assuming it does16:18
rosmaitathat's how i was reading it16:18
mriedemthough nothing about this is automatic :) a human still has to push the releases repo patch to eol the branch16:18
toskyI read it that way (one way is automatic, the other is a choice, both applies)16:18
mriedemok, yeah so in that case rosmaita you can just push patches to the releases repo to eol the cinder deliverables for pike and ocata16:19
mriedemand probably a courtesy email to the ML16:19
rosmaitamriedem: i don't see that "or a team decides" language on https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#end-of-life16:21
gmanndoes not that confusing from release site saying pike is EM and Ocata is UM but Cinder pike and Ocatca is actually EOL. should we add in release site too ?16:22
mriedemgmann: i think the release site docs are generated based on the tags per project16:26
mriedemrosmaita: refresh the cache?16:26
mriedem"After a project/branch exceeds the time allocation as Unmaintained, or a team decides to explicitly end support for a branch, it will become End of Life.  The HEAD of the appropriate branch will be tagged as $series-eol and the branch deleted."16:26
rosmaitamriedem: yep, that's what i get for never closing my browser tabs16:27
rosmaitaok, so i read that language like matt does, as a team can decide to EOL a branch without going EM->Unmaintained first16:28
gmannyeah until people go into the cycle specific details. from top page it shows the single status. the overall status of cycle change when all projects move? half or most of them ? https://releases.openstack.org/16:29
mriedemgmann: idk because we've not hit that yet16:30
gmannyeah.16:30
mriedemit probably becomes pretty serious though if devstack doesn't work on said branch16:30
gmannrosmaita: EM->EOL i read but where it is mentioned about directly go to EOL skipping EM and unmaintained ?16:31
* gmann oh devstack still has newton branch16:31
mriedemhttps://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#end-of-life is where i quoted above16:32
mriedemrefresh your browser16:32
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rosmaitagmann: there's a "Note" in the EM section16:33
gmanni see16:33
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openstackgerritRico Lin proposed openstack/governance-sigs master: Tag advisory status for SIGs and update SIG chair  https://review.opendev.org/69562516:41
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance-sigs master: Add El├Ád as co-chair of the Extended Maintenance SIG  https://review.opendev.org/69376616:45
mriedemthere is an extended maintenance sig?16:49
mriedemseems that should be mentioned somewhere in https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#stable-maintenance-teams16:50
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance-sigs master: Add linting for the sig.yaml  https://review.opendev.org/69376716:50
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance-sigs master: Cleanup basepython setting in tox.ini  https://review.opendev.org/69383216:50
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance-sigs master: Cleanup setup.cfg for unused settings  https://review.opendev.org/69383316:50
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance-sigs master: Update API SIG chairs  https://review.opendev.org/69126916:50
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fungimriedem: yeah, that's what the old project team for stable maintenance transitioned to become17:03
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