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| asettle | o/ hola | 09:37 |
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| mnaser | asettle: welcome back? :) | 14:10 |
| asettle | Thanks mnaser :D | 14:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/project-team-guide master: Mention the new cycle-automatic release model https://review.opendev.org/666548 | 14:18 |
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| fungi | office hour, folks | 15:01 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 15:01 |
| ricolin | o/ | 15:01 |
| fungi | (which doubles as a good excuse for me to procrastinate mowing the lawn for a bit) | 15:01 |
| tobberydberg | Hello folks! o/ | 15:03 |
| ricolin | fungi, let's keep this office hour as long as it can for you;) | 15:03 |
| fungi | ;) | 15:03 |
| ricolin | tobberydberg, regarding public cloud WG->SIG, what's the next plan for your group? | 15:05 |
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| tobberydberg | I have a question for you ... regarding the irc_meetings repo ... public cloud wg have become public cloud sig ... about to puha a change for that, at the same time change the storage directory in eavesdrop from "publiccloud_wg" to "publiccloud_sig" to have that matching ... but I don't want to loose all old logs | 15:05 |
| asettle | o/ | 15:05 |
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| tobberydberg | ricolin ... plan right now is to continue our discussions regarding "billing implementation proposal" as its called right now (just a meeting around that) | 15:06 |
| fungi | tobberydberg: normally you just note somewhere what the link to the old logs is | 15:06 |
| fungi | the html is statically generated and includes the meeting name in a number of references which would need in-place editing across the entire corpus of logs | 15:07 |
| zaneb | o/ | 15:07 |
| fungi | tobberydberg: also the links to the meeting logs which get echoed in-channel would need updating in old copies of the logs (or would 404) | 15:07 |
| fungi | when the infra team changed its name from the ci team, we simply included a hyperlink in our agenda to the old meeting logs directory | 15:08 |
| tobberydberg | fungi aha, ok ... so old logs are not deleted even if it doesn't have a matching "meeting" in the repo then | 15:08 |
| fungi | right, they're retained forever | 15:08 |
| tobberydberg | perfect, fine with that | 15:08 |
| fungi | we still have logs of the old "openstack" project meeting from 2011 or 2012 | 15:08 |
| tobberydberg | +1 | 15:09 |
| ricolin | fungi, so is there policy for how long we will keep logs for public cloud WG, once all move to SIG | 15:09 |
| fungi | and there have been multiple occasions where i've found those handy too (in digging into very early project history) | 15:09 |
| tobberydberg | I'll suggest that change for this soon then. Thanks fungi | 15:09 |
| fungi | ricolin: forever | 15:09 |
| ricolin | fungi, super:) | 15:10 |
| fungi | i see no reason to delete old meeting logs. that's project history, and can be valuable when trying to gain context for old decisions | 15:10 |
| ricolin | true | 15:10 |
| fungi | we don't delete old channel logs either | 15:10 |
| fungi | i mean, our text and html versions of logs and corresponding minutes for all meetings we've ever held with the meetbot in ~7 years or so comes to just over a gigabte (uncompressed) | 15:13 |
| ricolin | tc-members, as action report for U-release name wechat poll: WeChat poll for U release name (hosted by OpenStack official WeChat account, thanks Horace for that!) has ended, and here are the top five plus one from voting Urumqi (Urumqi city) 84 votes, Ussuri (Ussuri River) 78 votes, Ulansu (Ulansu sea) 37 votes, Ulanhot (Ulanhot city) 28 votes, Ulanqab (Ulanqab city) 18 votes, and one extra (6th) is Urad (Urad Middle Banner) with 15 votes | 15:13 |
| fungi | by comparison, a month of our ci job logs ot 10 terabytes | 15:14 |
| fungi | er, is 10 terabytes | 15:14 |
| fungi | ricolin: that looks like a great list! | 15:14 |
| ricolin | fungi, I do hope we can keep those logs longer so I don't have to recheck sometimes;) | 15:15 |
| jroll | ricolin: nice! | 15:15 |
| asettle | thanks for the update ricolin | 15:16 |
| fungi | TheJulia: if you're around, i'd like to figure out whether the way i phrased things in 670741 is really terrible and led you to misinterpret the thrust of the policy, or whether i've misunderstood your objection to the proposed policy | 15:20 |
| fungi | (see review comments i responded with) | 15:20 |
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| lbragstad | thanks ricolin | 15:31 |
| ricolin | tc-members, FYI I did set the title of poll from wechat to `pick up some suggest name list for TC's consideration` to make sure TCs got the control of the final list, so we still need to discuss and voting to add other options or remove options | 15:50 |
| mnaser | i personally don't mind/care whatever ends up being selected. if it's somewhere in china, it qualifies | 15:51 |
| fungi | same for me | 15:52 |
| jroll | ditto | 15:53 |
| fungi | we're already having to dance around the lack of a name for the next cycle in governance docs, no doubt others are having similar challenges... the sooner we have any name for it the better in my opinion | 15:53 |
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| ricolin | the poll didn't includes any name that do not meet the criteria, so those names still need to have chance to vote by TCs? | 16:02 |
| ricolin | I'm talking about https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Naming/U_Proposals#Proposed_Names_that_do_not_meet_the_criteria.3B_.E4.B8.8D.E7.AC.A6.E5.90.88.E8.A1.A8.E5.87.86.E7.9A.84.E5.90.8D.E7.A7.B0.E6.8F.90.E5.90.8D | 16:03 |
| mnaser | ricolin: i'm curious, is there any odd cultural connotations from some of those proposed names (just thinking back to previous releases where we messed up a little bit :)) | 16:05 |
| mnaser | i really like Ussuri | 16:06 |
| mnaser | personally :P | 16:06 |
| ricolin | mnaser, you mean the propose name from the wechat poll or from the wiki page? | 16:07 |
| mnaser | ricolin: the proposed names from the wchat poll | 16:07 |
| ricolin | I mean, the name is from wechat groups, but IMO we still need to avoid any issue/concerns globally | 16:11 |
| ricolin | mnaser, Ussuri is definitely fine to use:) | 16:11 |
| ricolin | I still like unicorn the best TBH:) | 16:11 |
| ricolin | s/the name/the name list/ | 16:12 |
| mnaser | aha, i would like us to pick up something relevant to the chinese community tho | 16:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Rico Lin proposed openstack/governance master: Add team format differentiate document https://review.opendev.org/668093 | 16:19 |
| ricolin | asettle, ^^^ | 16:19 |
| ricolin | asettle, I update the patch base on your comment, except for the having a `is responsible for` list, since I don't record to have such list anywhere in current TC document | 16:20 |
| ricolin | maybe we should have one?:) | 16:20 |
| * zaneb would also vote for Ussuri | 16:43 | |
| zaneb | btw Ussuri is misspelled on the wiki page IIUC | 16:46 |
| fungi | zaneb: given your objection to broadening the qualifying area to all of china, i take it ussuri is within two prefectural borders of the shanghai administrative area? | 16:46 |
| zaneb | fungi: it's not but I'd be ok with adding it as a special case, as is our prerogative | 16:47 |
| fungi | ahh | 17:03 |
| fungi | noted | 17:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add empty deliverables list to (retired) refstack https://review.opendev.org/671141 | 17:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-sigs master: Add Matt Oliver to FC SIG Chair List https://review.opendev.org/667715 | 18:20 |
| TheJulia | fungi: sorry, my life has absolutely consumed :( | 18:29 |
| TheJulia | I'm around and have... some remaining braincells today | 18:30 |
| fungi | no sweat, whenever you have time | 18:59 |
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| TheJulia | fungi: so the way I read it, which was completely without context as may would surely read it once codified, was that the resolution was conveying that perceived inactive repositories are considered repositories that are actively not releasing as part of | 19:26 |
| TheJulia | each release cycle, at which point they would be ejected from governance for not releasing and removed from the openstack namespace and ultimately declared dead/archived. This was first from reading the first two paragraphs and re-enforced once I reached the last ?two? of paragraphs. | 19:26 |
| fungi | huh | 19:27 |
| fungi | it has nothing to do with whether projects release nor what projects we remove from governance | 19:27 |
| fungi | the entire point of the resolution is that *if* a deliverable repository is removed from governance for any reason, the copy in the openstack git namespace needs to follow the usual repository retirement process | 19:29 |
| TheJulia | not projects but repositories that belong to projects is the way I read it | 19:29 |
| fungi | yeah, that resolution isn't saying to remove any particular repositories from governance, just saying what happens when a repository is removed | 19:29 |
| TheJulia | If that is simply the purpose of the resolution... then that seems like a lot to parse and grok :( | 19:29 |
| fungi | the majority of the text is attempting to provide background for the decision, and cover the grandfathering and grace period before the decision goes into effect | 19:30 |
| TheJulia | I will totally grant that it is easy for me to have a skewed perception right now with all the stressors that exist at the moment, but I read that and my jaw quite literally dropped while reading it. | 19:31 |
| fungi | i reread it several times over and can't figure out what wording in there would have given that impression, but i'm willing to try rewriting it from scratch and see if it comes out any clearer a second time | 19:32 |
| TheJulia | I can go back and re-read it, but it won't be for a day... or two | 19:33 |
| fungi | there no hurry--take you time | 19:33 |
| TheJulia | it feels silly to admit this, but I may have also lost or two while reading it which may have caused me to come away thinking something skewed | 19:33 |
| zaneb | fungi: if you're rewriting, I think it would help to explicitly separate it into sections like "Background", "Now Hear This", &c. | 19:34 |
| fungi | there are also some good suggestions in there from other reviewers already on places where things could be reworded a bit to make it clearer, so maybe that'll help | 19:35 |
| fungi | zaneb: makes sense. also one challenge i realized when writing it is that it's a resolution amending an implicit/de facto policy | 19:35 |
| fungi | i wonder if it should be rewritten to codify the existing policy too and not just the change in behavior | 19:36 |
| fungi | we don't currently have any hard policy that says repositories which cease development are retired following the process recommended in the opendev infra manual, we just do it | 19:37 |
| fungi | so it may make sense to write that down | 19:37 |
| TheJulia | sectioning it would really delineate things and would have caused me to at least go "wait, did I get that right?" | 19:37 |
| fungi | yep, it's a bit rambling. totally agree | 19:38 |
| fungi | should the rationale go first? or the policy first? | 19:38 |
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| fungi | i'm thinking start with some semblance of legalese policy text, and then have a background/context section after it | 19:39 |
| TheJulia | hmmmmmm | 19:39 |
| TheJulia | That is a good question which I am not sure has a good answer :\ | 19:39 |
| TheJulia | That would likely be best, as long as nobody needs to pull out their latin translation books :) | 19:40 |
| fungi | reason being the policy is the important part of the document, so if people read no further than that at least they got what the rule is | 19:40 |
| TheJulia | ++ | 19:40 |
| fungi | and yeah, i'll dispense with the wherefores and hithertos | 19:41 |
| fungi | plain speak | 19:41 |
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| TheJulia | Well, latin can always be useful :) | 19:45 |
| fungi | just not for this ;) | 19:49 |
| TheJulia | heh | 19:50 |
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