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| fungi | yep, that's the plan | 02:06 |
|---|---|---|
| fungi | i'm waffling on the idea of including that list as subject tags, but that would be one crazy long list | 02:07 |
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| fungi | okay, reminder sent | 03:39 |
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| fungi | i think at least cloudkitty seems to have had a prospective candidate e-mail their platform to the openstack-discuss ml but not propose it to the election repo yet | 03:39 |
| fungi | also a candidate just nominated themselves for tricircle while was sending that | 03:40 |
| fungi | oh, and zun also has one waiting for a second official to confirm | 03:53 |
| fungi | so we're down to 29 missing now including those | 03:53 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance-sigs master: Remove lyarwood from upgrades SIG https://review.openstack.org/641962 | 08:58 |
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| ttx | tc-members: we'll have another open infra newsletter this week, if you'd like to propose openstack news snippets to include please see https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newsletter-openstack-news | 10:12 |
| ttx | I was thinking of mentioning being past feature freeze, and the TC election results / PTL election start | 10:13 |
| ttx | smcginnis: maybe a one-liner about how the Ops meetup went? | 10:14 |
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| dtantsur | ttx: one thing that came from the ops meetup: they may need your help (e.g. via this newsletter) to reach out to moar people | 10:48 |
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| asettle | dtantsur, that's interesting esp with the Rackspace layoffs. Lots of stackers went from ops and dev. Might be worth trying for a combined effort? | 11:01 |
| dtantsur | yeah | 11:01 |
| evrardjp | ttx: lgtm | 11:35 |
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| smcginnis | ttx: That might be nice to mention the ops meetup. Frank has written up a nice article (with lot's of pictures) for superuser. But highlights were 30 attendees, great venue and lunch provided by Deutsche telecom, and feedback that it was a useful event and worth going. | 13:09 |
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| dhellmann | tc-members: there are some interesting ideas about consensus vs. agreement in this post: https://thenewstack.io/this-week-in-programming-rough-consent-for-project-management/ | 13:20 |
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| evrardjp | thanks dhellmann | 13:21 |
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| mnaser | tc-members: i'd like to look into merging https://review.openstack.org/#/c/641878/ soon if no one objects (esp if fungi can give a +2 given his involvement in the py3 stuff :)) | 13:39 |
| fungi | sure, will take a look once i'm caught up on ptl nominations | 13:40 |
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| mnaser | tc-members: there seems to be a lot of questions raised about our usage of using a template name linked with release name. some are very valid. do we want to consider bringing this up for discussion? | 14:15 |
| zaneb | mnaser: we discussed this for months on the review of the resolution (which everybody ended up voting for) | 14:16 |
| fungi | i didn't raise it as a concern in the original discussion because it seemed like an implementation detail | 14:16 |
| evrardjp | what's the concern? | 14:17 |
| evrardjp | I might have missed that | 14:17 |
| mnaser | review comments here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/641878/ -- about using release name in project template | 14:17 |
| fungi | figured when it came time to actually implement, we'd seek input from job configuration reviewers on the most efficient implementation | 14:17 |
| mnaser | i do feel it is an implementation detail as well, and given zuul's powers and efficency, it would be beneficial to get input from the infra team about the best way to go about getting our end result | 14:18 |
| mugsie | we will be keeping in on stable branches in the future | 14:18 |
| fungi | but like i said, i'm willing to give it a try. just thinking it's going to be a massive change of thousands of lines we have to script every time we transition between cycles when it could just be a few lines | 14:18 |
| mugsie | so stable/train will have these jobs forever (or until we eol the branch) | 14:19 |
| evrardjp | it seems everyone agrees, so I am moving on :p | 14:20 |
| mugsie | I like dhellmann's idea of applying it centrally, but that can follow on | 14:20 |
| fungi | mugsie: i don't see why that makes any difference though, whether it's multiple templates with per-release names (again though, why aren't the branch filters in the template?) vs one template name with multiple variants for the different branch filters | 14:20 |
| zaneb | fungi: it could be if we were prepared to break lots of projects' gates just to change there unit test config - something that is 100% not worth it, and which we discussed about 50 times during the resolution review | 14:21 |
| fungi | the latter allows it to be applied once to relevant projects and then adjusted centrally by creating a new variant of that name each cycle with the new branch filters | 14:21 |
| evrardjp | mugsie: I think we discussed this on the initial implementation | 14:21 |
| evrardjp | zaneb: I seem to remember that too | 14:21 |
| fungi | zaneb: okay, so that means dhellmann's suggestion of applying centrally is out of the question, since instead of one change with thousands of lines you're now talking about hundreds of changes | 14:21 |
| mnaser | that's going to take a huge toll on our infra overall, eh? | 14:22 |
| zaneb | I think people are misinterpreting dhellman's comment | 14:22 |
| fungi | and i don't think we want the central config reviewers reviewing those, so they would have to be applied in each project | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | no, I think fungi understands exactly what I meant | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | I think we want 1 template per series, and I think we want 1 patch per series to apply that to all projects at one time | 14:23 |
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| dhellmann | if that breaks jobs, then projects can have their in-tree overrides change the voting rules until they can get things fixed | 14:23 |
| zaneb | dhellmann: oh, I thought you were saying the templates were good because we can do stuff like (the future equivalent of) drop py35 across the project without having to push updates to individual repos | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | they are, yes | 14:23 |
| fungi | if we're applying it to all projects at the same time anyway, we can do that with one variant per series but keep the same template name so it doesn't have to be added to and removed from every project independently | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | I think if any part of this requires us to change a setting in a project tree it's going to fail | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I want a repo under TC control that lets us add jobs to projects | 14:24 |
| dhellmann | we may delegate that to the qa or infra team, but I want a place where we can say "you must run these test jobs" | 14:24 |
| fungi | dhellmann: yep, that's what the current project-config repository should eventually become, since it grants some body of configuration reviewers control to enforce job selection across all projects in the "openstack" tenant | 14:25 |
| dhellmann | otherwise we're going to continue to have the issue we have with projects dragging their feet to meet the testing specs | 14:25 |
| dhellmann | ok, cool, if we don't need a new repo that's fine | 14:25 |
| dhellmann | what I also want is to not have to learn zuul's branch specifier rules in order to look at a config file and see what jobs are run for $series | 14:26 |
| fungi | the idea is that we can't lean on the infra team indefinitely to keep on top of what the job policies are for each tenant, so the tc would delegate reviewing the tenant configuration for openstack to a group of people who are familiar with openstack's testing policies | 14:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: members: convert to yaml https://review.openstack.org/641700 | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | I would be happy with that | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | perhaps the qa team is a good candidate for that responsibility | 14:27 |
| smcginnis | I'm still partial to this approach - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/637866/ | 14:27 |
| fungi | a comment in each variant saying what series it's for would probably suffice, but also the job browser/api for zuul is nearly to the point where you can show per-branch views of jobs run on a project (right now there's a ui issue being addressed where it displays the wrong branch name, but i expect that will be rectified in the next few days) | 14:28 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : that looks pretty similar to zaneb's patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/641878/ | 14:28 |
| dhellmann | how are they different? | 14:28 |
| smcginnis | Not just py3, though that's a very minor distinction. | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | fungi : it's not just a matter of understanding what is already configured, it is a matter of understanding how to add the configuration needed for a new series | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : oh, yeah, I think there was a comment on zaneb's patch about that. I agree we should have templates for everything | 14:29 |
| evrardjp | dhellmann: I like the idea on shared ownership of code with TC being an active hand -- if that repo could be having cores from infra/QA/TC that would be great, IMO. | 14:30 |
| smcginnis | It made sense to me, if we are going to have per-cycle templates, to include the whole set of expected jobs we want run for that cycle. | 14:30 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis : ++ | 14:30 |
| evrardjp | but isn't that a little too forward thinking? | 14:30 |
| smcginnis | Heh, I don't think we've been accused of being too forward thinking too often. :) | 14:30 |
| evrardjp | I meant on dhellmann's comment about share ownership, smcginnis :) | 14:31 |
| zaneb | smcginnis: it's not a bad idea, but it only applies for the next 2 releases anyway. and by keeping py27 separate, we can allow projects that are py3-only to still use the templates | 14:31 |
| smcginnis | But we shouldn't have any py3-only projects until all of them are in U, right? | 14:33 |
| smcginnis | And it could be expanded to include others. Say we want to have all projects run tox -docs or something. | 14:33 |
| zaneb | official projects | 14:34 |
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| dhellmann | adjutant is 3 only, isn't it? | 14:46 |
| dhellmann | maybe we solve that by special-casing them | 14:46 |
| fungi | with the most recent flurry of nominations approved, we're down to 21 teams with no ptl candidate yet: Adjutant Blazar Cinder Congress Glance Heat I18n Ironic Magnum Monasca Neutron Octavia OpenStack_Helm PowerVMStackers Puppet_OpenStack Tacker Telemetry Tripleo Trove Vitrage Zaqar | 14:55 |
| smcginnis | I know Jay was going to do Cinder again but was waiting to give someone else a chance to put their name in first. | 14:56 |
| fungi | around the 24 hour mark that count will hopefully be small enough we can reasonably add them as subject tags in the next reminder | 14:56 |
| evrardjp | fungi: should we worry about Octavia? | 15:00 |
| mugsie | I think we should ... | 15:00 |
| evrardjp | I can ping in OpenStack helm | 15:00 |
| evrardjp | I suppose rico will continue on heat? | 15:01 |
| dhellmann | I think we'll find there is no one willing to do it for Telemetry | 15:01 |
| fungi | i think we should worry about any which don't have a candidate tomorrow. there's still ~1.5 days remaining in the nomination period | 15:01 |
| evrardjp | dhellmann: :( | 15:01 |
| evrardjp | fungi: Ex PTL was Rackspace, not sure about the current status :( | 15:02 |
| evrardjp | I mean current PTL ofc | 15:02 |
| evrardjp | future ex, whatever the term is :) | 15:02 |
| mugsie | outgoing ;) | 15:02 |
| evrardjp | thanks! | 15:02 |
| dhellmann | there's also only 1 contributor in qinling, iirc | 15:03 |
| fungi | dhellmann: if that's the case, then i guess it's the ptl candidate who is nominated since nobody else would qualify | 15:03 |
| mugsie | octavia have a plan apparently - so they should be good | 15:03 |
| gmann | yeah, there are many active contributor in Octavia | 15:04 |
| evrardjp | good to hear | 15:05 |
| evrardjp | Anyone has pinged Erno? | 15:05 |
| mugsie | I did | 15:05 |
| evrardjp | good :) | 15:05 |
| mugsie | he is running | 15:05 |
| evrardjp | great | 15:05 |
| mriedem | can i run as ptl for 31 other projects? | 15:18 |
| mugsie | if your an atc, but, the TC can take this as you volunteering to be appointed to 31 projects :D | 15:19 |
| mugsie | you're* | 15:20 |
| mriedem | i would be like a god | 15:21 |
| mriedem | drunk with power | 15:21 |
| mugsie | if it was me I would just be drunk | 15:22 |
| smcginnis | hah | 15:22 |
| gmann | :) | 15:31 |
| fungi | i don't think there's enough booze in the world to get me to volunteer to ptl 31 (well, now 21) projects | 15:32 |
| dtantsur | Julia just confirmed she plans to run again | 15:33 |
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| mnaser | great leader mriedem can be ptl for 21 projects | 15:44 |
| dtantsur | ++ | 15:52 |
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| mriedem | time for a serious query, where in the train schedule does the community wide goal deadline land? https://releases.openstack.org/train/schedule.html | 16:13 |
| mriedem | or is there no deadline if we can't agree on goals? | 16:13 |
| mriedem | or is it April 11 to align with the goal research item? | 16:14 |
| smcginnis | mriedem: We've set the completion deadline, but we haven't done a selection deadline yet. | 16:17 |
| smcginnis | I think we've always just had a few lined up and made sure to pick some early-ish in the cycle. | 16:17 |
| smcginnis | We could formalize it though and put something on the calendar to set a deadline for selection if that's what folks want. | 16:17 |
| mriedem | i was just wondering because i put the 2 that are open into the nova meeting agenda and that got me thinking about urgency | 16:18 |
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| mriedem | if it's roughly april 11 at this point, then there is a month | 16:18 |
| mriedem | but not a big deal | 16:18 |
| mriedem | i just know not many people are looking at these proposals | 16:18 |
| smcginnis | I think an ideal situation would be to have them selected before the cycle starts. | 16:18 |
| mnaser | lbragstad: had a suggested timeline actually | 16:19 |
| smcginnis | I don't think that will change though. We never seem to get too much feedback on the goals. | 16:19 |
| smcginnis | Unless someone absolutely doesn't want to do them. | 16:19 |
| mnaser | so that he wanted that projects knew the goal ahead of time to slot time in for their ptg | 16:19 |
| mnaser | ttx, fungi: do we have someone at the foundation that can help apply to this? https://opensource.googleblog.com/2019/03/introducing-season-of-docs.html | 16:20 |
| ttx | Might be a stronger statement if it comes from our Docs team? /cc diablo_rojo | 16:25 |
| fungi | mnaser: reading https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs/docs/admin-guide and https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs/docs/organization-application-hints it seems like something anyone in the community could do | 16:25 |
| lbragstad | mnaser correct | 16:25 |
| fungi | i agree with ttx, i was also thinking this makes more sense for the application to come from a representative of the docs team | 16:25 |
| lbragstad | my primary concern with the goal selection process is making sure we capitalize on the opportunity of face-to-face communication | 16:25 |
| lbragstad | as opposed to selecting the goals too late and not being able to work on them during the PTG | 16:26 |
| ttx | I mean we can definitely facilitate, but yeah we should do that with the Docs team | 16:26 |
| mnaser | mriedem, smcginnis ^ about the goal selection 'deadline' | 16:27 |
| lbragstad | or having a "damn, i wish we knew these were going to be the goals two weeks ago during the PTG!" moment | 16:27 |
| mugsie | ttx: I think the season of docs mentors should be docs / community people, but the admin may fit in the foundation (if there is people hours availible to do it of course) | 16:32 |
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| lbragstad | flaper87 would you be opposed to taking a quick look and leaving feedback on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/641784/ since you were the original author? I'll happily incorporate the feedback into subsequent patches. | 16:41 |
| ttx | mugsie: diablo_rojo trackes mentorship and other on-boarding activities, so she should be able to help with coordinating that application with the docs team | 16:43 |
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| mnaser | tc-members: does anyone who enjoys some sort of 'event planning' would like to take on planning a TC dinner on saturday? seems like most of us come in that day anyways :) -- not that it would be a "tc only" event but at least figure out some logistics of a "place to go" and "attendees" | 17:10 |
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| lbragstad | last september a few of us when to https://www.denvermilkmarket.com/ | 17:13 |
| lbragstad | went to* | 17:13 |
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| lbragstad | looks like there are plenty of options close by though | 17:15 |
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| ttx | mnaser: I can organize something. | 17:23 |
| lbragstad | no shortage of places close-by https://tinyurl.com/y5fhypd5 | 17:25 |
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| mnaser | thanks ttx. i'm pretty boring when it comes to that stuff, better let others do it ;) | 17:35 |
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| dhellmann | mnaser : maybe talk to stephenfin? | 18:12 |
| dhellmann | (about the season-of-docs) | 18:12 |
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| mnaser | dhellmann: i posted to the ml, will try to follow up if i dont get a response | 18:24 |
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| e0ne | smcginnis, mnaser: hi. I've got few questions about horizon cross-project activities | 19:43 |
| mnaser | e0ne: sure | 19:43 |
| e0ne | I would like to introduce integration tests job as a required to be listed as official maintained and supported plugin | 19:43 |
| e0ne | I implemented few such jobs for several plugins already | 19:44 |
| e0ne | but it would be good to involve plugin teams too:) | 19:44 |
| e0ne | I know that plugins are not maintained well because of lack of resources:( | 19:44 |
| mnaser | e0ne: i think this is interesting and ties into similarly how cinder now requires third party ci for drivers .. somewhat. | 19:45 |
| e0ne | from one side we don't have CI at all, from others, teams don't have capacity to fo it | 19:46 |
| e0ne | mnaser: cinder did a great job on CI | 19:46 |
| e0ne | mnaser: do we have some official procedure to start such activities? | 19:47 |
| e0ne | mnaser: of course, I'll start with mailing list and note in the horizon documentation | 19:47 |
| gmann | e0ne: to be more clear, that integrated-job you mean to install all the plugins and perform some sanity test or even more OR only install and perfrom plugins specific testing | 19:50 |
| e0ne | gmann: tests like install plugin and open the page will be enough for the beginning | 19:51 |
| gmann | e0ne: ok that is not covered on plugin CI yet ? | 19:52 |
| e0ne | I do understand that all teams have very limited capacity to implement it | 19:52 |
| e0ne | gmann: there are a lot of plugins from this list https://docs.openstack.org/horizon/latest/install/plugin-registry.html without any kind of CI | 19:53 |
| gmann | how we do in case of tempest plugin is. we do have a single n-v job on tempest which does install all plugins to check no installation error so that it would fail the whole system due to any buggy plugin. | 19:53 |
| gmann | so this kind of job on horizon side can be useful for you to monitor such active/buggy plugin etc | 19:54 |
| gmann | but yes i agree with you to add it on plugin side too. | 19:54 |
| e0ne | gmann: it's a good idea to have such job on horizon side, thanks:) | 19:56 |
| gmann | one way to make the job implementation easy is 1. horizon implement such job which does install all detected plugins and open page for them and 2. add that in a template 3. add that template entry in plugins gate pipeline | 19:58 |
| gmann | this way any plugin running this job will have only that plugin installed and testing it. | 19:58 |
| gmann | and plugin would not need to implement the job, just add the template entry in their CI | 19:58 |
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| e0ne | gmann: it's not so easy to do for horizon, but the general idea sounds good | 20:00 |
| gmann | ok, not much idea on horizon plugin mechanism . but implementing job on each plugin side is complex and leads to inconsistency for long term. | 20:03 |
| gmann | for ref. this is how we do for tempest plugins - http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/tempest/tree/.zuul.yaml#n343 | 20:04 |
| e0ne | gmann: thanks for the help | 20:10 |
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