| smcginnis | :) | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
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| gmann | TC Office hour time (for non-TC members to interact with TC members) .... | 01:02 |
| zaneb | gmann: o/ | 01:02 |
| gmann | zaneb: hi | 01:03 |
| zaneb | gmann: I left a couple of questions on your feature discovery patch earlier | 01:03 |
| gmann | zaneb: sure, i will check today. thanks. | 01:04 |
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| smcginnis | o/ | 01:05 |
| smcginnis | Kind of around. | 01:05 |
| zaneb | tc-members: this was an interesting thing that was published last week on building sustainable open source communities: https://sfosc.org/ | 01:05 |
| zaneb | it includes an extended analysis of OpenStack governance: https://sfosc.org/sfosc-book/governance/ | 01:06 |
| zaneb | spolier: the TC comes out pretty well; the board... less so | 01:06 |
| zaneb | it'd be an interesting exercise to match up the principles in his framework with what we have in the 'role of the TC' document and see if anything is missing | 01:08 |
| zaneb | one that it suggests to me is that it's our job to make sure that core teams are not preventing new people from becoming cores for illegitimate reasons (not suggesting this is happening) | 01:11 |
| zaneb | it may also be something worth contributing to from our experience in this area | 01:12 |
| zaneb | (and it'd be worth reviewing the OpenStack-related stuff for accuracy - I already fixed one minor thing in https://github.com/sfosc/sfosc/pull/23) | 01:13 |
| gmann | zaneb: thanks for sharing, it is interesting. | 01:17 |
| clarkb | the one thing I think that misses is that while yes 2/3 of the board is corporate membership they still have to get the individual members to approve bylaw changes | 01:18 |
| clarkb | so there is some check and balance there | 01:18 |
| gmann | that is something i was reading just now. clarkb is that mentioned somewhere about individual members weight-age or it is just 2/3 | 01:20 |
| zaneb | clarkb: that's a good point. so I guess individual members have power when it comes to maintaining the status quo, but not when it comes to making changes | 01:20 |
| clarkb | zaneb: ya | 01:21 |
| clarkb | gmann: it is in the bylaws | 01:21 |
| zaneb | and of course most things that the board does do not require changes to the bylaws | 01:23 |
| clarkb | this could be my murican constitution bias cap but I think a high bar to changing such things is valuable. In oregon the bar is a bit lower and every election we vote on whether or not to update the constitution. And as a general rule of thumb you always vote against it :P | 01:23 |
| clarkb | * oregon votes to update the state constitution | 01:23 |
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| scas | i've worked with Chef, the software and community, for as long as a lot of people have worked entirely in OpenStack. that publication explains the 'why' i've continued to work with it way better than i have been able to so far | 01:28 |
| clarkb | also TIL that apache membership is invite only | 01:29 |
| scas | same goes for FreeBSD | 01:29 |
| scas | someone has to sponsor a new committer, but anyone can propose a change | 01:30 |
| fungi | i am here for the second half of office hour at least | 01:30 |
| fungi | dinner ran long | 01:30 |
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| zaneb | interesting reading list here too: https://github.com/sfosc/sfosc/issues/28 | 01:31 |
| gmann | clarkb: yeah, '(iii) a majority of the Individual Members voting (but only if at least 10% of the Individual Members vote at an annual or special meeting).' | 01:31 |
| clarkb | gmann: yup | 01:32 |
| clarkb | which counters "The issue is that the platinum and gold members have enough seats on the board that they can vote as a block against the interests of individual members - they have a 2⁄3 majority of the board." | 01:32 |
| clarkb | they can vote that way but still require individual members to ratify | 01:33 |
| gmann | true. | 01:34 |
| gmann | you should do PR there :) | 01:34 |
| clarkb | "Any patents included in the software must be granted under the terms of the open source license." is an interesting principal (and seems to be the reason llvm is undergoing a license change) | 01:40 |
| scas | from the outside, the board is viewed in every way as any other corporate board of directors, where the same presumptions apply. without strong verbiage to quell any such presumptions, someone is bound to make such a connection regardless of its reality. perceptions are reality is more than some catchy phrase | 01:42 |
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| scas | i've seen similar comparisons of TC to a ruling family from the outside | 01:44 |
| smcginnis | At least I haven't heard anyone make the false claim for awhile that the TC is appointed by the sponsoring companies. | 01:52 |
| gmann | indeed | 01:54 |
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| scas | i didn't bookmark exactly where i saw that comparison, but it was around the TC election time. it's interesting to see the perspective of the observer from time to time, especially from those who may not be 100% informed as to the detail of what goes on | 02:39 |
| TheJulia | Interesting | 02:40 |
| TheJulia | I suspect the sense of family that we do.... what is the right word... foster.. (maybe?) in this community does not help any perceptions that there are different classes as in a ruling family. But I think that is an easy effect to result in when viewed from the outside. | 02:43 |
| zaneb | there was a period where there was very little turnover on the TC, which perhaps fostered that perception | 02:51 |
| zaneb | my sense is that it's somewhat better now, but I would think that. objectively, we're still yet to see anybody voted off since the start of direct elections afair | 02:53 |
| mtreinish | zaneb: I was, and there have been others who lost re-election | 02:56 |
| zaneb | oh, I must have missed that. I stand corrected | 02:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tony Breeds proposed openstack/governance master: WiP: Allow obvtaining specifically tagged governance data https://review.openstack.org/623388 | 07:14 |
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| dhellmann | zaneb : very interesting; added to my reading queue | 14:40 |
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| dims | thanks zaneb | 14:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jeremy Stanley proposed openstack/governance master: Correct Infrastructure project link in help wanted https://review.openstack.org/626221 | 15:47 |
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| lbragstad | zaneb parsed about half of it so far.. good read | 16:11 |
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| lbragstad | smcginnis i can see that being pretty helpful, we've always done that with starred reviews in the past and just built a query to list starred reviews from a select few people | 16:42 |
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| lbragstad | smcginnis if we come up with a process or docs, i could add them to the PTL guide | 16:42 |
| smcginnis | lbragstad: Yeah, that might be good. Credit goes to mugsie for making me aware of this. | 16:43 |
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| lbragstad | i like the idea... we've tried a few different things for solving that exact problem | 16:43 |
| lbragstad | but this sounds like it's exactly what we want | 16:43 |
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| smcginnis | A little more flexible than stars and it has the benefit that -1's can actually block merges. | 16:44 |
| lbragstad | yeah | 16:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Fix typo https://review.openstack.org/626041 | 21:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Correct Infrastructure project link in help wanted https://review.openstack.org/626221 | 21:04 |
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