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| evrardjp | o/ | 08:56 |
|---|---|---|
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| gmann | o/ | 09:02 |
| gmann | Office hour Time.. | 09:02 |
| ttx | o/ | 09:03 |
| ttx | I'm around in case there are questions ! | 09:03 |
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| * cdent waves | 09:22 | |
| ttx | Hi Chris! | 09:24 |
| cdent | I was still coding at 01.30 last night, I should probably do something else, but | 09:27 |
| * cdent shrugs | 09:27 | |
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| * lbragstad is bested by DST again | 10:01 | |
| lbragstad | looks like office hours was quiet | 10:03 |
| gmann | yeah | 10:04 |
| cdent | anybody not going to summit? | 10:04 |
| * lbragstad gets in on saturday afternoon | 10:04 | |
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| smcginnis | cdent: Getting a lot done coding until 01.30? | 12:05 |
| cdent | smcginnis: It was an extension of the same stuff I was doing on Saturday. I think it's finally "done" but there's nobody around to reivew it. | 12:06 |
| smcginnis | I know the feeling. | 12:08 |
| cdent | I get the impression that lots of regulars have become irregulars for one reason or another. | 12:08 |
| cdent | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ2oXzrnti4 | 12:09 |
| cdent | I hope it doesn't last | 12:09 |
| smcginnis | You mean the folks who have usually been doing reviews? | 12:10 |
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| cdent | yeah | 12:11 |
| cdent | I suspect that will be a theme in the health checks | 12:11 |
| smcginnis | I knows it's been ongoing in Cinder. It seemed to slow for awhile there, but it does seem lately there's been another decrease. | 12:14 |
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| dims | o/ | 12:42 |
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| openstackgerrit | Frode Nordahl proposed openstack/governance master: Add new charm repositories https://review.openstack.org/615856 | 12:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Frode Nordahl proposed openstack/governance master: Add new charm repositories https://review.openstack.org/615856 | 13:07 |
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| dhellmann | lbragstad : I'm reviewing the goal backlog in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/community-goals and I wonder if "Move to new style oslo.policy" on line 138 is the same as the policy-in-code goal you drove? | 15:11 |
| cmurphy | dhellmann: I think it is | 15:15 |
| dhellmann | cmurphy : great, thanks, I can mark that one as done | 15:16 |
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| lbragstad | dhellmann correct - thanks cmurphy | 15:22 |
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| cdent | TheJulia: I'm with you on the environmental and related concerns re summits and other gatherings. I feel like next week might be my last one. I'm not sure it is worth the many costs. | 15:54 |
| scas | i've gone back and forth over being at summits, et al., and boston was likely my last. the personal costs have been pretty high, though enjoyable, however fleeting. in my nexus of two ecosystems, things are getting slightly less delightful, too. i'm not one to say too much, as i think it bears significance | 16:02 |
| * persia usually does a comparison of the cost of 4x annual gatherings to the cost of providing office space : in the event office space is provided in other ways (or staff aren't officed), it is harder to justify. | 16:02 | |
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| TheJulia | cdent: I don't feel too horrible because I have a slightly oversized PV array on the roof of my home... but still. My mind has been shifting to maybe trying to create some sort of water efficient carbon capture system. | 16:12 |
| cdent | I have PV too, but if neither you nor I go, then other people will have plenty of reason to not go as well ;) | 16:13 |
| persia | Very true | 16:21 |
| persia | That said, every community I've participated in that does regular physical meetings (some once a year, some twice, some four times) seems to leave each with renewed vigor. All of the ones that don't seem either to have a series of incomplete informal gatherings at other people's conferences, and/or stop being interesting to many participants. | 16:23 |
| evrardjp | persia: that's not surprising, and good to remind to people :p | 16:25 |
| persia | evrardjp: Some of the folk who study software communities have written about this (although no papers show up from a quick search for me). The interesting cases to me are the descriptions of project activity/velocity over a transition from virtual to physical meetings or vice versa. | 16:27 |
| persia | If I find another such paper, I'll share here. | 16:27 |
| evrardjp | interesting indeed | 16:29 |
| dhellmann | folks might find this LWN summary of the python-dev governance proposals interesting: https://lwn.net/Articles/769178/ | 16:50 |
| * cdent reads | 16:52 | |
| evrardjp | thanks for the share dhellmann | 16:55 |
| cdent | Interesting ideas in there. I suppose it is somewhat difficult to make comparisons between OpenStack's model and others because of the strength of the PTL role | 17:01 |
| clarkb | I found the public voting thing to be interesting | 17:02 |
| cdent | I think public voting is much more viable in medium to small groups with high barriers to entry where what amounts to wiki-nature is more of a thing | 17:03 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I think the cultural differences between the two groups make different answers reasonable | 17:05 |
| clarkb | cdent: I personally worry about how it can effect an individuals willingness to vote if early results swing one way or another. In a small group people probably understand that their vote has an impact to turn that around if it bothers them | 17:07 |
| dhellmann | I'm disappointed that they're looking at public voting. I think it's important to preserve that privacy to allow folks to vote their conscience | 17:10 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: right, I think you are more likely to either not vote (as you feel it won't matter) or vote against your opinions to end up with the less bad result | 17:11 |
| persia | One of the challenges is that systems that expose verifiable voting records and preserve anonymity are hard. Debian manages one, but it's a bit creaky in some ways. | 17:16 |
| persia | Frustatingly, most of those are trivially defeated by folk sharing their receipts, which ends up meaning that one can determine who voted how either by peer pressure or elimination. | 17:17 |
| fungi | well, also the election officials can determine who voted how, even with debian elections. you send an opengpg-signed plaintext ballot via e-mail | 17:20 |
| fungi | er, openpgp-signed | 17:20 |
| fungi | assuming you're referring to "devotee" anyway | 17:20 |
| fungi | er, i guess it supports submitting an encrypted and signed ballot as well, but doesn't require encryption | 17:27 |
| fungi | (and plenty of people not only submit their ballots for devotee polls unencrypted, but often accidentally send them to the debian-devel ml or the like) | 17:28 |
| persia | fungi: Yes, devotee, but even if encrypted, officials can tell. I'm not sure there's any way around that except by having more layers of officials. | 17:29 |
| clarkb | fungi: I don't worry so much about things being public after the fact as much as during the election itself | 17:29 |
| clarkb | fungi: having election officials seems like a reasonable compromise for that? | 17:29 |
| persia | For example, the TC appoints some officials, who then manage an election coordinated by another set of officials, so the TC-nominated officials don't have knowledge. | 17:29 |
| fungi | yeah, i don't have a problem with election officials being trusted to keep things above board, and that tends to require that they be able to see who voted how | 17:30 |
| fungi | i was just pointing out that "preserves anonymity" depends on who you expect them to be anonymous to | 17:31 |
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| clarkb | yup | 17:33 |
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