Wednesday, 2018-08-01

tonybFor that discussion: http://paste.openstack.org/show/72700200:13
tonybTrove has a candidate but they don't count as a ATC: https://review.openstack.org/58733300:14
tonybI excluded Security based on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/586896/00:15
tonybThe 2 elections are underway00:15
* tonyb isn't sure if y'all need an email or of that's enough data to start the discussion00:16
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dhellmanntonyb : an email to the -dev list to make all of that official would be a good idea00:22
tonybdhellmann: Okay.00:23
tonybdhellmann: done.00:32
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phillidWith our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/01:39
phillidI thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/01:39
phillidRead what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate01:39
phillidA fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/01:39
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montag45120With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/01:43
montag45120I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/01:43
montag45120Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate01:44
montag45120A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/01:44
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tacocat25With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/01:51
tacocat25I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/01:51
tacocat25Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate01:51
tacocat25A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/01:51
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smaudetWith our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/02:01
smaudetI thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/02:01
smaudetRead what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate02:01
smaudetA fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/02:01
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hogepodgesmcginnis: RefStack doesn't really have a dev team for the client or server any more (aside from me right now). There are some ancillary projects being developed by a team at RedHat that falls under the project, but I don't think it should really qualify as an official project any more.02:21
hogepodgeIt's still important, it just doesn't meet the minimum requirements.02:21
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FireFly16With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/02:32
FireFly16I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/02:32
FireFly16Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate02:32
FireFly16A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/02:32
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grumble210With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/02:38
grumble210I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/02:38
grumble210Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate02:38
grumble210A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/02:38
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Lumpi16With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/02:42
Lumpi16I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/02:42
Lumpi16Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate02:43
Lumpi16A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/02:43
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genera13With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/02:51
genera13I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/02:51
genera13Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate02:51
genera13A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/02:51
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tsp6With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/03:02
tsp6I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/03:03
tsp6Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate03:03
tsp6A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/03:03
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BranchPredictor4With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/03:06
BranchPredictor4I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/03:06
BranchPredictor4Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate03:06
BranchPredictor4A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/03:06
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wols13With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/03:07
wols13I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/03:08
wols13Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate03:08
wols13A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/03:08
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sins-With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/03:43
sins-I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/03:44
sins-Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate03:44
sins-A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/03:44
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Tux23With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/04:02
Tux23I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/04:02
Tux23Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate04:02
Tux23A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/04:03
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scasso... oftc.04:11
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scasbarring that, +r should be set04:22
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k6ka29With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/05:09
k6ka29I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/05:09
k6ka29Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate05:09
k6ka29A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/05:09
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KDDLBWith our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/06:10
KDDLBI thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/06:10
KDDLBRead what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate06:10
KDDLBA fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/06:10
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RyanKnack15With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/06:16
RyanKnack15I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/06:16
RyanKnack15Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate06:16
RyanKnack15A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/06:16
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programmerq18With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/06:21
programmerq18I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/06:21
programmerq18Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate06:21
programmerq18A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/06:21
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foxcookieWith our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/06:48
foxcookieI thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/06:48
foxcookieRead what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate06:48
foxcookieA fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/06:48
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annieslmaosWith our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/07:34
annieslmaosI thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/07:34
annieslmaosRead what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate07:34
annieslmaosA fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/07:34
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openstackgerritNguyen Hai proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Follow the new PTI for document build  https://review.openstack.org/58770707:46
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__idiot__With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/07:58
__idiot__I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/07:58
__idiot__Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate07:59
__idiot__A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/07:59
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cyberzeus28With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/09:49
cyberzeus28I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/09:49
cyberzeus28Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate09:49
cyberzeus28A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/09:49
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cdentI think we're going to want to +r everything, which is sad, but perhaps needed10:15
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the_madman1With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/10:21
the_madman1I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/10:21
the_madman1Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate10:21
the_madman1A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/10:21
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cdentttx, ianw : given we're relatively small and focused in here maybe we should +r this channel?10:24
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evilWith our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/10:25
evilI thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/10:25
evilRead what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate10:25
evilA fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/10:25
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barbietossWith our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/10:26
barbietossI thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/10:26
barbietossRead what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate10:26
barbietossA fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/10:26
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ianwcdent: done and noted in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freenode-plus-r-08-2018 for now10:28
cdentthanks ianw10:30
cdentianw: may as well do #openstack-placement too, same reasoning, please and thank you10:31
ianwdone10:33
ianwthis isn't the first time; i sent an email to openstack-dev as i didn't want to unilaterally change such an important communication mechanism10:34
cdentYeah, it's a delicate balance10:35
ianwbut we should probably consider policy to have +r on channels, and redirect non-registered users to a catch-all channel some good samaritans watch and help people who are genuine10:35
cdentMy tin foil hate conspiracy theorist wants to think these spammers are paid for by slack10:35
cdentthat's a good idea10:36
cdents/hate/hat/ (but hate works too)10:36
ianwlike i didn't want to touch #openstack-meeting because i figure that's probably a channel that gets a lot of very periodic users10:37
ianwbut is also annoyingly the one you want logged the most :)10:37
cdentyeah10:38
jrollI think the catch-all channel would get real real busy :/11:33
jrolldoes +r mute people that are not registered and in the channel at the time it's set? I see nobody was kicked here11:34
jroll(or in -placement)11:34
cdentI _think_ it is only checked when people try to join11:43
jrollanother friend confirms it does, but gives a decent error11:46
jrollowait, now he says it does not11:53
TheJuliaI think redirecting unregistered users forces registration which raises the bar to being a knowledgeable and regular user of freenode itself... which I think is a huge mistake because it applies a filter on our primary day to day communication method. Spammers are annnoying, but the right thing really seem s to be is to delegate ops privileges so some users can kick/ban spammers out if necessary.12:17
jrollTheJulia: based on the volume and the contents, I think it's worth it in the short term12:20
TheJuliaI agree short term response makes sense, since banning bot spewing irc spam does get old12:22
jrollI love that we already have a suggestion in email to move to slack12:22
TheJuliaSpammers have been around for over twenty years, the tool still works as long as we don't block out legitimate people12:24
jrollyeah12:25
jrollI don't think anyone is suggesting +r as a permanent measure12:25
jrollit would be nice to add Sigyn to all of our channels, if that's possible12:30
* TheJulia will need to look some of those up... since the flags she barely remembers from 20+ years ago have chnaed.12:31
* TheJulia needs a coffee IV first12:31
jroll+r is only allow registered users to join. unregistered users that are already there can still talk12:32
TheJuliayeah, knew that one12:33
TheJuliaInteresting, either irccloud buffering is being weird, or we had a messsage come in from a user that was not present. I know there is a flag for that :)12:34
TheJuliaThen again, I opened irccloud last night and had an extra hour of messages I never saw :\12:34
smcginnisI haven't noticed any since Ian changed it.12:34
cdentmaybe this will finally kill IRC ;)12:35
TheJuliafor me it was the ironic channel around 8:2112:35
TheJuliacdent: lol12:35
smcginniscdent: Finally done in by the slack cabal!12:36
cdentno, no, this is the death of chat entirely12:36
cdentmy evil plan finally comes to fruition12:36
smcginnis:)12:36
* cdent he said while chatting12:36
jrollTheJulia: if 8:21 EST, that person did join, I kicked fairly quickly, blame irccloud12:36
smcginnisFinally done in by the mailing list cabal.12:36
cdentyou have no idea12:37
TheJuliajroll: ugh, irccloud then :(12:37
TheJulialol12:38
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scassigh. my email buffer has turned into a wall of text yet again14:04
scasprompted by the slack suggestion, but i do have a certain perspective14:05
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smcginnisLooks like dhellmann should be the new Freezer PTL - http://stackalytics.com/?module=freezer-group&metric=commits14:14
smcginnis:)14:14
TheJuliaheh14:14
smcginnishogepodge: Thanks for the feedback on RefStack. Do you think we should switch that to a SIG?14:15
smcginnishogepodge: I can probably help get that process going if so.14:15
scasmy thoughts on chat and open communities is reading more like something i need to dump to a markdown file and not an email reply. my perspective comes from two decades of being in and around the irc extension of open source communities14:24
TheJuliaSome of the projects, I can't help but wonder if they are just in maintenance, or maybe perhaps time to re-evaluate if there is a need or void that is being filled.. and if there are users if we have enough data.14:24
TheJuliascas: why not then? ;)14:25
smcginnisSearchlight I think is defintely "maintenance mode". Or I prefer "code complete" since maintenance mode has some negative connotations for me due to past experience.14:26
scasmaintenance mode is subjective14:26
smcginnisProbably the same for one or two other ones.14:26
scaschef can be considered such, but i imported 2 cookbooks, and took in support for a new service from a non-core contributor14:26
scasit's just that it doesn't expand too often, not for lack of want14:27
smcginnisThat's the tricky part - differentiating between low activity and just nothing major to be done.14:27
TheJuliacode complete just sounds like nothing will be added ever again... and maybe someone one day finds it and it solves their problem so they add new functionality. :\14:27
scasif you look at contributor engagement, one could peg it as being in maintenance mode14:27
TheJuliabut yeah, maintenance connotation as well is bad14:27
scasif you call it code complete, that would be a misnomer, too14:27
smcginnisFeature complete?14:28
scasi don't have coverage for all core services at this point. i used to tout that, but not today14:28
TheJuliawe should avoid this pit of despair talking about the differences of the two statements.... it just goes down hill :\14:28
smcginnisTheJulia: True14:28
scasindeed14:28
TheJuliaI do kind of like feature complete, fwiw14:28
scasthat would be the closest suitable term14:29
scasat least for chef's situation14:29
scasit's not my intent to bring any despair to things. if i don't say anything, the lack of engagement at certain layers becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy14:32
smcginnisIt doesn't have any implications that new features couldn't be added in the future, just that all current planned features are done.14:32
TheJuliaI guess in ironic, we have a few things like that. No active work really needed, they fit the need... that doesn't prevent us from picking it back up and pushing it along.  Perhaps projects could have a maintenance contact or something to at least act as the occasional $human part of $required_process14:33
TheJuliaSome other designation other than PTL might be good in those cases. Or we should consider process changes14:34
scassmcginnis: of course. doing the due diligence and defining it in the glossary would need to be done, for the pendantry of it14:34
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scasin chef, the unmaintained cookbooks aren't dead, simply without demand to dedicate the time and effort to refactor to modern times. if there was demand, the maintenance status would, of course, have to be reevaluated14:36
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dhellmannsmcginnis : what's our process for finalizing goal selection?15:03
smcginnisdhellmann: I suppose we should think about whether we need more process around that, but I think our process so far has just been socializing on the ML and in this channel, then getting enough votes on the proposed goals to accept them.15:09
smcginnismriedem: Were you going to update that upgrade-checker goal I started?15:09
mriedemsomeday15:09
smcginnisI think the py3 one is in good shape, so we can probably go ahead with that one.15:09
smcginnisAnd if we get the upgrade-checker one updated, that should be in good shape.15:10
mriedembetween reverse engineering starlingx diffs and my kid breaking her arm on monday night, it's been a busy week15:10
smcginnisFrom IRC and ML discussions, there weren't any strong opinions on other goals, nor negative sentiments on this one.15:10
dtroyermriedem: don't lose hopeā€¦ the patch files are coming...15:10
smcginnismriedem: Oh no! Poor kid. I hope she's getting plenty of ice cream.15:11
mriedemshe's bored as hell15:11
smcginnisHad to happen in the middle of summer.15:12
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dhellmannsmcginnis : ok, so the python3 goal has enough votes and is old enough. I can go ahead and approve that today, then15:40
smcginnisdhellmann: Great, it will be good to have one of them through.15:41
smcginnisdhellmann: I'll see if I can update the upgrade-checker one later. Or bug mriedem_afk enough to get him to do it.15:41
dhellmanntc-members: now's your last chance to +1 the python3 goal in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/575933/ while I see about lunch15:41
dhellmannsmcginnis : sounds good15:41
smcginnismriedem_afk: If your daughter is really bored, you can teach her how you amend commits. :P15:41
-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Due to ongoing spam, all OpenStack-related channels now require authentication with nickserv. If an unauthenticated user joins a channel, they will be forwarded to #openstack-unregistered with a message about the problem and folks to help with any questions (volunteers welcome!).15:49
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openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: teach check-review-status to report verification failures  https://review.openstack.org/58787916:37
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: write up the python3-first goal  https://review.openstack.org/57593316:39
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openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: update link from python3-first goal to storyboard  https://review.openstack.org/58791616:56
openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: update link from python3-first goal to storyboard  https://review.openstack.org/58791617:11
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toskydhellmann: hi, I saw the new stories about python 3; but some projects already had python3 tasks, what should we do?18:39
dhellmanntosky : these tasks are specifically for tracking the goal work. So if you have other tasks that are related to other python 3 work, you should keep those.18:40
toskyack18:40
dhellmannEmilienM , cdent: ianychoi's change to the PTI for translation seems a bit stuck. Since you are the liaisons to that team, maybe you can help out? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/572559/18:43
EmilienMyex18:43
EmilienMoops18:43
EmilienMyes18:43
dhellmannI'm not sure exactly what the goal is there, or what work would need to be done to make a PTI change practical.18:43
toskyjust to be sure: the goal only mentions python 3.6, but it does not say anything about whether we should keep python 3.5 jobs as well or replace them; is there some decision about this?18:45
dhellmanntosky : not yet, no18:46
toskyoki18:46
dhellmannI don't think we'll have a "goal" to drop py35 when the time comes, but we may announce when it's OK to do so18:46
toskyso for a while we will have py35 or py36, ok18:47
toskyI guess I can start adding them18:47
toskyor I will see a wave of mass-sent reviews that will add them anyway18:47
dhellmanntosky : please wait to start making any configuration changes. Part of the goal is going to be moving a lot of the zuul settings in-tree, and we have some tools to do that in a consistent way for all projects.18:48
dhellmannwe also still need to test all of that, which I'm going to be doing with the oslo repos this week (likely this weekend, due to the number of patches)18:49
toskydhellmann: ok, no problem, but which settings are going to move in-tree which are not moved already?18:49
toskythe template definition for py35 check+gate jobs?18:49
dhellmanntosky : I can't answer that question precisely without knowing which repo, but it will be 99% of the job settings.18:50
toskyok, I'm curious :)18:50
toskyI will wait for the patches18:50
dhellmannanything that runs on multiple branches18:50
dhellmannor has a branch specifier other than master18:50
dhellmanntosky : here's a sample patch from a previous test round: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/581526/118:51
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zanebtosky: "We do not plan to update the minimum version of python 3 we support as part of this goal. Projects already running python 3.5 jobs should continue to do so."19:04
tbarrondhellmann: smcginnis w.r.t. stein python3 goal https://review.openstack.org/#/c/575933 cinder and manila have drivers for storage back ends that19:38
tbarrondhellmann: smcginnis are covered by 3rd part CI jobs19:38
tbarrondhellmann: smcginnis - are these in scope for python3 goal in stein?19:39
tbarrondhellmann: smcginnis - I'm not saying they should *not* be, just that there's more friction involved.19:39
mnaserdhellmann: should we come up with some sort of process/discussion time for the tc to figure out leaderless projects all together?19:45
mnaseri don't want to say the word meeting ;) but i think it's at least necessary so we can all chime in19:45
toskyzaneb: thanks; I guess I should read more; I suspect nothing will change even outside that goal19:49
smcginnistbarron: That is a good point.20:02
smcginnistbarron: I think I will add that to the Cinder planning etherpad that we should ask that third party CIs all switch to py3.20:03
smcginnistbarron: And then we probably at least need to track in a wiki or somewhere which ones have switched over.20:03
smcginnistbarron: I don't think it is a blocker for the goal, but at least being able to say most vendor drivers are validated to work would be a really good thing to have.20:03
tbarronsmcginnis: makes sense20:08
dhellmannsmcginnis , tbarron : yes, that's reasonable. Either adding py3 or switching to py3 would be good. We're reaching a point where distros are going to want to be able to deploy with py3 and drivers are going to be part of that20:39
smcginnisWe've casually mentioned in the past that they should run their CIs with py3, but I think we need to start taking a firmer stance with that.20:43
dhellmannit seems like third-party CI falls under the already mentioned functional test jobs, but I could update the goal document to mention them explicitly if you think it's worth it20:44
smcginnisdhellmann: I would be afraid of that being the reason for not being able to call the goal complete if there's one or two vendors that don't respond to updating their CI.20:45
dhellmannhmm20:45
smcginnisWe want them to, but if they don't do it and aren't engaged, that will sort itself out in the long run I think.20:46
dhellmannthe goal says "there are functional test jobs running under python 3". We already revised it so that it doesn't say all jobs.20:46
tbarronsmcginnis: you've got about 80 drivers and we have close to 30 ...20:46
smcginnisWe should probably publish which CI's we know to be using py3 so potential consumers can find that info.20:46
tbarronsmcginnis: yeah, that's what I'm thinking, track it and make the info available20:47
dhellmannit would be good to finish that driver support matrix work thingee started a while back20:47
dhellmannsupport for python3 could be a feature in the matrix20:47
tbarronyup20:47
tbarrontested support20:47
smcginnisYep, that patch is close to landing. I was thinking that too, we can add a column there to show py3 support for the driver.20:48
dhellmannyeah20:48
tbarronin gate20:48
smcginnisPush that thing even further of the page.20:48
smcginniss/of/off/20:48
tbarronsmcginnis: just need a small font and squinty eyes20:48
dhellmannmaybe one of you could summarize all of this on the ML thread where I announced that the goal patch was approved?20:48
smcginnisdhellmann: You don't happen to know an easy way to pivot a docutils table?20:48
tbarronheh20:48
smcginnisdhellmann: I have it on the next Cinder meeting agenda to discuss. If Jay is good with this, I'll follow that up with a ML post.20:49
dhellmannI usually use a list-table and that's enough like yaml that you could probably script it, but I don't know for a regular table20:49
dhellmannsmcginnis : sounds good, thank you20:49
tbarronsmcginnis: and manila meeting is tomorrow so i'll shoot you a status afterwards20:49
* tbarron doesn't anticipate any objections20:50
smcginnisdhellmann: Looking at the support_matrix code, it doesn't look too hard to have a flag to switch horizontal and vertical, but it would be a lot of duplication.20:50
dhellmannoh, right, those tables are being generated20:50
smcginnisWould probably be easier to write some sort of transformer that would take the generated output and transpose the columns and tables before it is handed off to the rst parser.20:51
smcginnis*columns and rows20:51
dhellmannwhy not just change the code once so the table is generated differently for everyone?20:51
smcginnistbarron: Cool, let me know if any concerns are raised.20:51
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clarkbfwiw third party CI is traditionally the realm of "test the things that are imporatnt to you particularly if we can't test them upstream" that may mean python2 remains relevant to those users21:07
clarkbbut we likely aren't going to respect -1's fromCIs using python2 when python2 is no longer supported21:07
dhellmannyeah, hence my suggestion to either add or switch21:07
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fungii too would rather not have updating third-party ci as a requirement for goal completion, merely a very strong recommendation (and an excuse for services to mark those nonconforming drivers unsupported if they want)21:59
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ianychoiEmilienM, dhellmann : sorry for my stuck on the review. IMO the stack was mainly because I mixed I18n and Docs things (and this made myself messed up on my thinking). Last week I discussed with I18n and Docs team PTLs and I will submit into two divided patches by trying to address comments.23:55
EmilienMianychoi: sounds good23:55
ianychoiEmilienM, thanks a lot for being a liaison! :)23:56

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