Monday, 2018-06-18

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ttxdhellmann: for the Denver PTG, I assume the TC wants a room on the Friday like we did in Dublin ? (hopefully with less snow)12:55
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* smcginnis wonders how much it would cost to rent ICEE machines for the PTG13:02
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mordredmrhillsman: the other thing that is a bonus about matrix over zulip/slack/mattermost is that it's federated and not siloed13:04
openstackgerritMerged openstack/project-team-guide master: Add change review guide
mordredthis is a thing that is very nice about IRC - one does not have to join the openstack chat network, one joins freenode and there are channels for openstack and fedora and many other things- which facilitates cross-collaboration.13:05
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mordredthe slack/mattermost/hipchat model, on the other hand, is oriented around a very company-centric approach, which works nice for internal corporate communication - but in my opinion leads to more silos when applied to community interactions13:06
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Add principles entry for peer review
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Include PTL E-mail address in rendered team pages
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Include TC E-mail addresses in roster
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dhellmannttx: yes, I think we'll want a room. a day seems reasonable.13:59
EmilienM++ for a room on Friday14:11
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mrhillsmanmordred definitely agree with you there, I was not entirely sure of the usefulness of Zulip and actually thought it was a matrix client like riot...sadly not :)14:14
cdentdhellmann, ttx, EmilienM: mugsie and I have spoken in the past that it would be useful to figure out ways for the TC to get much more time together. Perhaps not at the PTG14:15
EmilienMcdent: what's your website again :D14:16
ttxcdent: all the TC, or random subgroups ?14:16
mordredmrhillsman: ++14:16
cdentttx: I think all, because of the shared understanding thing. I'm not super keen on this concept of subgroups14:16
ttxI feel like we were successful in getting groups of 3-4 together around OpenStack Days, trainings, or random conferences14:17
ttxcdent: hard to do without adding travel, but yeah14:17
mordredmrhillsman: it will also be interesting to see what the client performance is if we're running our own node - or maybe it's something we can get improved if it winds up being good for what we want otherwise14:17
cdentright, those of you who are able to travel to openstack days, trainings and other random conferences have a more synchronized shared brain14:17
ttxcdent: I had been thinking that rather than adding Board+TC+UC days to existing events, we could travel to an in-person board meeting and tag a couple of days of TC workshop to it. Boston-style14:18
cdentyeah, that would make some sense14:18
ttxIf we have to travel more than "regular" events to get together, at least try to use that to reduce the load on other events/travel14:19
dhellmannI like the idea of a separate event, where we're not also trying to be $team PTL or $goal champion or whatever14:21
dhellmannwe talked about trying to meet at another conference that might be of interest anyway14:21
dhellmannthere didn't seem to be enough interest in FOSS backstage for this year14:22
ttxSome of the most productive time we ever had was at the Zingerman's training (but that was a subgroup)14:22
dhellmannthe other proposal was All Things Open, but I'm on vacation that week this year14:22
dhellmannyeah, I think the thing that was useful about that time was having a goal but not having the time be overly structured14:22
dhellmannthere are only 13 of us. we could meet in someone's board room if we wanted to just get together somewhere14:23
dhellmannit doesn't have to be fancy14:23
mugsiedhellmann: thats not a bad idea14:23
* cdent wonders if the technical vision is a good topic/goal14:24
dhellmannI'm sure we could fill a day talking about that14:24
mugsieI think the line I used with cdent was "lock them in a room until they have a shared understanding" (before I was on the TC)14:24
cdentone of us one of us one of us14:24
dhellmannI'm not doing one of those escape room things as a bonding exercise, though ;-)14:25
mugsiecdent: it would be a good one for a full day session alright14:25
ttxAnyone willing to map where the barycenter of TC members is ?14:26
cdentcan someone remind me where the current batch of starlingx code is?14:26
dhellmannI can look into RH hosting space. We have a nice new facility in boston that we like to show off, I think14:26
mugsiesome of the orchestration / tooling is in git.o.o isn't it?14:26
mugsieI *think* the east coast is close to center?14:27
* fungi suspects he's at the barycenter of tc members14:27
dhellmannsummer is no time to go to the beach14:27
fungiyes, tell me about it. i'm hiding in the house'14:27
fungiafraid to even venture out to get groceries later today14:27
fungiwent out to a 10:30am movie matinee yesterday because it was good beach weather so there were no tourists in the theater14:28
dhellmannat least football season only results in 6 home games on weekends14:28
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dhellmannwhat's the minimum amount of meeting time people would consider it useful to travel for?14:30
dhellmann2 days? 1?14:30
mugsieat least 2 for me14:31
smcginnis2 or 3 I would think.14:31
smcginnisHaving someone host at an office would be good.14:31
mugsieif it is in the US (which it probably will be), it is at least 6hrs each way, and I prefer to have more work time than travel time14:32
smcginnisThat's similar to how we handled our midcycles in the past, and some of those were very low cost, high productivity events.14:32
dhellmannfunny, if we do it in europe I'd rather meet for less time so I can do more site-seeing ;-)14:32
dhellmannwhat's the *maximum* folks would find productive?14:32
dhellmann3 days? 4?14:32
* mugsie is not keen to repeat SYD, where I spent 2x the time in session travelling 14:32
smcginnisCall it a week in Europe and give us an incentive to make quick progress.14:32
smcginnis4 seems like probably the max.14:33
cdentI can do small group (ie the size of the tc) for a long time. but make it any bigger and I start to cry14:33
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smcginnisMental focus would likely taper off by mid-day three.14:33
dhellmannyeah, 4 days would be a lot of time. we would need a good agenda for that14:33
dhellmannthat, too, smcginnis14:33
smcginnisDay four could be reserved for social bonding at a pub.14:34
ttx2 full days in (2 nights) min14:34
ttxwith lead-in lead-out travel days14:34
smcginnisThat sounds like a good plan to me. ^14:35
dhellmannwhen would you want to do this? august?14:37
ttxthat is where the proverbial rubber hits the mythical road14:37
smcginnisThat's enough lead time for me. I was actually thinking my travel looks pretty light from mid-July to late August.14:37
ttxMy August is pretty loaded14:37
dhellmannmy july is booked and the ptg is sept14:37
ttxas in full-booked14:38
ttxOctober around allthingsopen?14:38
* cdent blinks14:39
zanebdhellmann: I have used the Annex in Raleigh for OpenStack meetings before, and wouldn't anticipate any issue doing it again14:39
dhellmannI'm on PTO that week14:39
fungii'm certainly not going to object to raleigh since i could drive it ;)14:39
ttxHmm, not sure we can pull this off in 201814:39
dhellmannzaneb : I was thinking it might be easier for folks to get to boston? but yeah, I'll look into the options14:39
fungiit takes me about as long to get to boston as dublin, fwiw. however my travel situation is a bit pathological14:40
dhellmannfungi : it takes me longer to drive to the airport than the flight to boston, so I feel you14:40
zanebyeah, flights to Raleigh can be a pain. easy for me & fungi though ;)14:40
fungii expect we're both about the same drive time14:41
smcginnisI will be at ATO, so that would work for me. But we should have most folks there if possible.14:41
dhellmannby all means, if lots of folks are going, meet without me14:41
fungii'm still waiting to hear back from the ato selection committee on whether my talk was approved, though at this point i'm starting to suspect it wasn't14:41
smcginnisfungi: Hmm, I got my notice a couple weeks ago already.14:42
* dhellmann has to drop offline to prep for a conference call14:42
ttxI could make the end of the AllThingsOpen week work14:42
ttxOtherwise... end of November maybe14:42
fungismcginnis: yeah, i'll still go even if i'm not presenting. it's too cheap and nearby not to14:42
smcginnisfungi: True14:42
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ttxThe rest of my year is dotted with preexisting speaking commitments.14:43
smcginnisMy anniversary is Nov 20, so if we can swing a meetup in Paris around then, I'm all for it. ;)14:43
zanebit's possible it may be difficult to find meeting space the week of ATO (other folks may have the same idea), so if we want to do it then it would probably pay to decide soon14:44
* fungi lived in raleigh for >15 years, tries to think of good options14:46
fungiif only my friend's beer bar/coffee shop hadn't folded, it would have been ideal. we used to hold lan parties there all the time14:47
zanebfungi: RH definitely has space, but it'll be first-in first-served14:47
fungiyeah, i figured with all the hatters we have on the tc having some of them request space in the offices would be an option, but i figure alternatives would also be good to consider14:48
fungii'm trying to remember whether i still have any ins with ncsecu faculty/staff14:49
fungier, ncsu i mean14:49
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clarkbfungi: thats how they get you for alumni association donations14:50
fungiheh. i'm not an alumnus, i just happened to have had a lot of friends working there over the years14:51
* fungi attended unca instead14:51
* mnaser can drive down to boston14:56
mnaserso that would work nicely14:56
mnaseri know it's really far away.. but what about something like kubecon.. we can maybe take advantage of time there to connect and meet with other communities and sit with whatever their tc-equivilant is and learn more about them14:57
mnaseri'm sure we have somethings to learn and share maybe14:57
mugsieI was planning on trying for kubecon US this year anyway, but I think some dedicated time is important14:58
smcginnisThose really end up being crazy weeks.14:58
smcginnisIt's been hard to get together with them since they are like us at Summits - 3-4 places to be at once.14:58
smcginnisBut if we can arrange something, I do think it's a good place for all of us to be any way.14:59
* fungi wonders if the back room of a comics/games shop would work... memories of my rpg past15:03
* fungi rolls 3d6 and consults the code review effects table15:04
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mnaseri'd be super happy with boston anyways15:29
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dims+1 from me to boston needless to say :)15:47
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openstackgerritZane Bitter proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Clarify Code-Review 0 etiquette
cdentttx, dhellmann: re an all-tc meetup. Was just having a chat with my wife, and one thing we might want to consider with regard to that is figuring out some way to do it that doesn't support fascism.17:01
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smcginniscdent: Is that to mean not paying for travel to the US?17:04
cdentsmcginnis: showing up in a country that's apparently that's just a likely to lock me up as want my money17:05
smcginnisTwo for one deal.17:05
smcginnisI'm fine with a Cornwall meetup. ;)17:05
cdentbut then you would be associating with known revolutionaries and never be let back in17:06
smcginnisI would be surprised if I'm not already on a few watch lists.17:06
cdentI'll go to the us if I have to, but it wouldn't be my first choice.17:06
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dhellmannmaybe we should look for a 13 room b&b somewhere17:17
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smcginnisHow about we all lock ourselves in the Croke Park again? :)17:19
smcginnisJoking, but not.17:19
dhellmannI will not be attending any events in dublin for a while17:20
dhellmanntoo soon17:20
smcginnisThat's too bad. I kind of want to go back so as not to leave things the way they were left.17:20
dhellmannyeah, that wasn't the first time a trip to dublin went poorly for us, so we're going to give it some time17:22
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fungishould i protest travelling into the uk until brexit is repealed? ;)17:34
fungifingers crossed cornwall and scotland secede soon17:34
fungiirish unification will also shrink some of that17:35
smcginnisIf we weren't all on watch lists before, we probably are now. :D17:36
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mrhillsmanany thoughts on apac friendly office hours?18:41
mrhillsmanlike what time slot(s) work18:41
clarkbmrhillsman: iirc there is a block of them during my evening18:41
smcginnismrhillsman: Yeah, the 0900 Tuesday is late afternoon there and 0100 Wednesday should be a good morning normal work hours time.18:51
smcginnisThey are not well attended, so if there are different times that would be known to be more likely to have activity, I think we would be open to looking at alternatives.18:52
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mrhillsmanThx smcginnis we are deciding on office hours time for UC19:14
mrhillsmanWe are going to start somewhere and see how it goes and adjust accordingly19:14
smcginnismrhillsman: Ah, cool.19:14
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fungiyes, i can confirm that we (almost) never end up with community members who live in the apac timezones third of the globe showing up to our 01:00 utc wednesday office hour19:56
fungimostly just night owls in north america19:56
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smcginnisOne in particular.20:01
fungiwe have a few20:02
fungiit's rare that i'm the only one awake any longer20:02
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dhellmannit's still not clear to me if we aren't seeing participation due to the time, lack of interest, or from using irc instead of wechat or whatever20:47
dhellmannmrhillsman : ^^ so I'm interested to hear how things work for you, too20:48
mrhillsmanwe are doing it very light first with just one day at the end of the month, and it is being "promoted" right now with openinfra days china/korea happening this week20:49
mrhillsmanhopefully we can continue to push the one day, build enough participation, then lean on participants to decide on any changes20:50
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openstackgerritAdrian Turjak proposed openstack/governance master: Adjutant official project status
mnaseri think office hours in general are not very well attended from anyone other than the tc :\23:44
mnaser(i hope we can somehow change that)23:44
clarkbI think part of the issue is the time has been used for the tc to work together rather than community time, but maybe that is side effect of people from community not taking advantage of it23:45

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