Tuesday, 2018-05-01

smcginnisIt appears 384 participated in the election, if I read those results right.00:10
diablo_rojosmcginnis, correct00:11
diablo_rojoCongrats ttx, cdent, smcginnis, dims, zaneb, mugsie and mnaser :)00:12
dimsthanks diablo_rojo00:12
smcginnisThanks diablo_rojo. Congratulations dims and others.00:13
dimsand thanks to zhipeng, ricolin and gongysh for stepping up!00:14
diablo_rojodims, +2!00:14
mnaserthank you diablo_rojo :) and yeah, took me two times so i'd love to see those stepping up propose themselves next time around as well00:16
diablo_rojoJust cause you don't win the first, second or whatever time you run, doesn't mean there isn't always next time :)00:17
dims++ mnaser diablo_rojo00:17
EmilienMyeah congrats to the new folks00:18
EmilienMI'm glad we have fresh names :)00:18
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pabelangercongrats to all01:17
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fungiwelcome new volunteers!02:23
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openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/governance master: Retire kolla-kubernetes project  https://review.openstack.org/56538502:54
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ttxyay fresh blood05:46
ttxI'll be in the air during the TC office hour05:49
ttxmnaser: you should subscribe to openstack-tc mailing-list, so that I whitelist you to post there05:50
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openstackgerritThierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Members update following Apr 2018 election  https://review.openstack.org/56543206:00
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ttxNext step 1 is to approve ^06:12
ttxThen next step 2 is to select a chair. I sent http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2018-May/001503.html to explain process06:13
ttxLet me know if you have questions06:13
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openstackgerritJohn Garbutt proposed openstack/governance master: Add Scientific Computing constellation  https://review.openstack.org/56546608:50
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cdentdid no one raise the tc-members clarion09:09
cdentcongrats and welcome to the new folk09:10
johnthetubaguy+1 on the new folks09:15
johnthetubaguynow I am not on the TC, I finally got the constellation review up I had promised in dublin09:15
johnthetubaguyits no where near finished, but its a start09:15
johnthetubaguyhoping to get that discussed at the scientific sig later09:16
cdentyay, constellations!09:16
smcginnisGreat to see that!09:18
* cdent shakes head at smcginnis 09:20
cdentthe cows have already been milked, you could have slept in09:20
smcginnisWhat did I do now?09:20
smcginnisI'm actually in Copenhagen for Kubecon, so I've been awake for hours already.09:21
* cdent doesn't seem to travel enough for a TC member09:23
cdentI'm going to have to resign09:23
smcginnisHah, that's probably a good thing you don't.09:23
smcginnisSomeone's gotta keep the lights on. ;)09:24
* johnthetubaguy passes cdent any spare light bulbs he has09:24
cdentI'm on holiday this week too ("I'm not even supposed to be here"), I just checked in to congratulate new folk and everybody is off caring about k8s ;)09:25
* johnthetubaguy tuts at cdent09:26
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smcginnisYou're not doing the holiday thing right. :P09:26
cdentI'm waiting to pick up my brother from the airport09:26
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* cdent goes back to holidaying09:50
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dimsjohnthetubaguy : thanks!10:45
johnthetubaguydims: no worries, trying to keep that moving, its a start at least!10:45
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TheJuliaWelcome new members!11:38
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dimsmugsie : need me or anyone else to get you started? ( i really don't think so! :)12:16
jrollcongrats to the winners! \o/ for new people12:17
mugsieI think I am OK for now :) pretty  much do what I was doing before, I just have an extra Roll Call Vote now :D12:17
dimsexactly :)12:17
dimsmnaser : zaneb : same question to you all too12:18
mnaserdims: i'll do my homework and ask questions, thank you!12:19
openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: Doug Hellmann nomination for Chair  https://review.openstack.org/56548812:19
dimsdhellmann : w00t!12:19
mugsiedhellmann: nice and quick off the marks  :)12:19
dhellmannmugsie, dims :-)12:19
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dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : I wonder if constellations would be more discoverable if they were on the docs site rather than the governance site13:09
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johnthetubaguydhellmann: good point, it probably should end up there, somehow linked via project navigator13:10
dhellmannI'm not sure the best way to add a new rst-based section to that site right now13:11
dhellmannthe openstack-manuals repo is a bit of a kludge13:11
dhellmannmaybe a new repo, published to docs.openstack.org/constellations?13:11
dhellmannand then we can link to it from $everywhere13:11
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : I can help set up that repo, if you like13:14
johnthetubaguydhellmann: docs.openstack.org/constellations with a new repo makes sense, help setting that up would be great13:15
johnthetubaguyI guess I worry about long term ownership, that would be the TC?13:15
dhellmanna new repo also lets us build a new team13:16
dhellmannI'll leave a comment about the fact that we're going to move this on the review for now and put that repo on my todo list13:16
johnthetubaguyOK, sounds good13:17
johnthetubaguyit does make more sense as something TC helps start, rather than something the TC owns13:17
dhellmannmaybe the docs team would "own" it?13:21
johnthetubaguyseems a good first choice, looking at their current list, although feels bad forcing it on them (they may want it)13:23
dhellmannyeah, we would ask first, of course13:31
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dimswe can just create the repo unofficially and get started? once we have some stuff in there then we can figure out ownership? separate repo will give us many options down the line13:39
mnaseri agree; the repo can be adopted by governance later at anytime in it's early stages to help quickly iterate on it13:42
dhellmanndims, mnaser : yes, that's the plan I outlined in the commit message asking for the new repo13:45
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openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: Retire kolla-kubernetes project  https://review.openstack.org/56538513:51
ttxmnaser: OK I cleared the moderation bit on your openstack-tc subscription, you're clear to directly post there now13:52
ttxEveryone else I did earlier13:52
mnaserttx: thank you13:52
mugsiettx: thanks :)13:52
dims++ dhellmann thanx13:53
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dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : it seems we have to sort out the repo ownership before we can add the publishing job13:57
johnthetubaguydhellmann: should the TC own it for now, and move it later? feels like a forum session13:58
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : maybe you can drive that? talk to pkovar and the docs team? a ML thread might be a good way to go, since we might find some other recruits for the review team13:58
dhellmannmeh, let's just get a decision made13:58
johnthetubaguyyeah, we should try13:58
dhellmannI think it should either be the docs team or a completely separate team, either way including the TC in the reviewer list13:59
johnthetubaguyyeah, that makes sense I think13:59
dhellmannI don't want your momentum to stall out by making you wait 3 weeks for a discussion over something that's easy to adjust as we go13:59
johnthetubaguyI can't push this right now, but should be able to push it forward soon13:59
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johnthetubaguyyeah, totally13:59
dhellmannok, I'll start that thread then14:00
johnthetubaguythanks, I can pile in on there14:00
dhellmannactually, let me ping pkovar first14:00
dhellmannah, he's not online,14:00
dhellmannprobably may day14:00
dhellmannso thread it is14:00
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dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-May/130068.html14:08
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johnthetubaguydhellmann: awesome, thank you!14:56
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Members update following Apr 2018 election  https://review.openstack.org/56543215:18
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openstackgerritEric Brown proposed openstack/governance master: Remove Bandit from the Governance Repository  https://review.openstack.org/56553817:08
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dhellmanntc-members: I'm building some tools to collect some information about which companies are contributing to which initiatives by pulling data from gerrit and the foundation membership db. I have several sets of reviews I'm looking at based on our past goals and the "help wanted" list. Which other initiatives are you interested in finding out about? How are you interested in seeing the data sliced up?20:42
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fungibeen struggling to come up with anything specific, but i'll keep noodling on it21:58
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fungior more accurately, a lot of the effort we need put into battling tragedy-of-the-commons effect isn't easily quantifiable because it has a significant dimension of quality22:35
fungifiling _detailed_ bugs, following up on bug backlogs with _useful_ suggestions to move them along, fixing _legitimate_ issues rather than trivial stuff you filed a bug on or convinced someone else to file for you...22:38
fungimaybe cross-project liaisons? though it's hard to mechanically sort the ones who are engaged from the ones who aren't (especially when a team lists two, or three, or a dozen)22:40
fungisimilarly, security reviewers... yes they're small sets of volunteers from each project, but too many of them list half a dozen (or more) people when only one or two are even still active on the project22:42
fungisig meeting chairs? other people who chair meetings but aren't ptls? i assume we don't want to highlight elected positions anyway (or maybe we do?)22:44
clarkbif goal is to quantify member company contribution I don't think you want to leave out elected positions as many people elected are able to do their jobs due to their employers22:45
fungipeople who write summaries (weekly for project teams or for the tc or working groups)... though i can probably count them on one hand if i had an extra finger or two22:45
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fungii'm on the fence about elected positions mainly because companies competed on the "we have the most ptls" metric in the past so that may not need extra help22:46
dhellmannI was thinking a bit more narrowly than all of that22:47
fungiheh. leave it to me to cast the net wide22:48
dhellmannwe had some people assert that certain companies were not contributing to community things, and so i wanted to see what the stats showed for things like goals22:48
dhellmannI came up with these queries: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/565606/22:48
dhellmannwhich are, admittedly, not going to be entirely accurate22:49
dhellmannbut the number of changes they match make me think that if we're missing a few, it's not really going to change the results too much22:49
dhellmannI'm still working on getting the output of the program into useful shape for sharing (the problem with letting folks specify their affiliation with an arbitrary string is that they will, and then your dataset is useless)22:50
fungilooks good. i'd be a little worried about the efficacy on bugs-or-stories since some (largeish) teams have a culture of filing a tracking bug for every change whether it's actually a bugfix or not22:50
dhellmannyeah, that one is also made harder by moving to storyboard for *everything*22:50
dhellmannI wanted a way to just find bugs, but don't have a good way22:50
mnaserdhellmann: what would you define as contributing to community things?  as in, having contributors that push code only in their commercial interest but not things such as goals/help-wanted, etc?22:50
dhellmannmnaser : the program I wrote over in the goal-tools repo defines it as creating a review, uploading a new rev of the review if you were not the original author, reviewing +2, and approving22:51
dhellmannI have not addressed +1/-1 for now because they are so easy to game, and so obviously already a target of gaming22:52
mnaserdhellmann: i see, forgive me but isn't that a lot of what stackalytics allows us to see (when it works)22:52
dhellmannand then the queries are looking for those kinds of contributions across different sets of patches, like "anything that went into stable/ocata" or "anything tagged for $a_goal"22:52
mnaseroh okay, that little dive in is not something we can do with stackalytics22:53
dhellmannmnaser : stackalytics doesn't easily let us do that latter part, with targeted queries22:53
dhellmannI did start with the stackalytics organization name mapping data, but I tweaked it a bunch because it's pretty badly out of date22:53
dhellmannat this point, I'm looking for more questions we would like answered or discussed as part of preparing for the joint bod/tc meeting in vancouver22:54
dhellmannso if anyone has input, please share your ideas22:55
mnaserdhellmann: zuul file changes could be an interesting one as that's a very useful way to see whos keeping the gates moving22:55
mnaserby zuul file changes, i mean "zuul.yaml" etc22:55
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dhellmannhmm, ok, sure22:55
dhellmannlet me see if I can come up with a good query for that one22:56
mnaserperhaps the migration to zuul v3 topics as well, i think in the docs we suggested using a topic22:56
mnasernope we did not in infra docs22:56
dhellmannwell, there were no zuul.d or .zuul.yaml files before then, so any changes to those files would be part of the transition, right?22:57
dhellmannI'm not sure how to check for those sorts of changes within the infra repos, though22:57
mnaserdhellmann: correct, so i guess any zuul.d or zuul.yaml changes to anything outside openstack-infra repos means either migration to zuulv3 or ci improvement/fixes/changes22:58
dhellmannmnaser : does this look right? path:^\.zuul\.yaml OR path:^zuul\.d/.* OR path:^\.zuul\.d/.*23:00
mnaserdhellmann: in simpler form and seems to be returning the same results is "file:.zuul.yaml OR file:zuul.d"23:01
clarkbdhellmann: zuul.yaml (without leading . is also valid)23:01
mnaserdhellmann: i hacked on the following23:01
mnaserprojects:openstack/ (file:.zuul.yaml OR file:zuul.d) is:merged -topic:zuulv3-projects23:01
mnaserokay but the without leading . is missing23:01
fungilimiting it to projects:openstack/ is likely pointless23:01
dhellmannwhy the -topic?23:01
fungisince that's just our default namespace23:01
dhellmannI'm already filtering to only governed repos23:01
mnaseri had the -topic:zuulv3-projects because of the very very big change that corvus did removing the project name from zuul.yaml23:02
mnaserso it would have inflated your numbers23:02
dhellmannI'm also not filtering on merged changes, because WIP changes are still being contributed and that's OK23:03
mnaserso perhaps this - (file:zuul.yaml OR file:.zuul.yaml OR file:zuul.d) -topic:zuulv3-projects23:03
dhellmannok, that's what I have now23:03
dhellmannmnaser : on filtering out that topic, an argument could be made that a more sustainable way to make changes like that is to have several people do it, or even describe the change that each project needs to make. I realize that that specific change needed to be throttled to avoid overwhelming zuul, but I'm not sure the skew is actually "bad" in this case.23:06
dhellmannI suspect the work I did to add lower-constraints jobs is also "skewing" that data significantly in a similar way23:09
fungiit's good to remember that we had a devil of a time getting some teams to review/merge those in a timely fashion too23:09
dhellmannyeah, right now I'm only tracking actual work done, not delays. that will require some additional tooling.23:09
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