Tuesday, 2018-03-27

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openstackgerritzhongshengping proposed openstack/governance master: Remove puppet-ganesha from puppet openstack modules  https://review.openstack.org/55669401:35
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openstackgerritTony Breeds proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update Stable policy for Extended Maintenance  https://review.openstack.org/55273305:52
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openstackgerritzhongshengping proposed openstack/governance master: Retire puppet-ganesha  https://review.openstack.org/55669407:40
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Update new projects reference WRT IRC meetings.  https://review.openstack.org/55272808:45
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Resolution for minimal SIG governance  https://review.openstack.org/55425408:49
* cmurphy wonders if she dst'd right09:01
ttxyou did09:01
cdentcmurphy: you did. tc-members assemble09:01
cdentI very nearly did not, right about 9 this morning I was all set to light the beacon and then realized09:02
* cdent looks at the time and then at smcginnis 09:03
cmurphysmcginnis clearly doing dst very wrong09:04
* smcginnis shakes head at self09:04
johnthetubaguyah, so my calendar didn't lie09:04
smcginnisSo is everyone fine tuning their 5th revision of their candidacy announcements? :)09:05
ttxoh. When is that09:06
smcginnisLooks like the nomination period starts the week of 9 April.09:07
smcginnisAssuming this ends up being final - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55661009:07
ttxIn other news I like the way the Adjutant discussion is going, so I think we should not hurry the decision there09:07
ttxI'm less convinced by the Kolla discussion09:08
ttxwhere it feels like we are missing the Kolla-k8s team viewpoint09:08
cdentI considered: "Vote for me if you want more TC Report." as my whole nomination statement, but that would be a false presentation09:08
ttxcdent: always better than vote for me and I'll make OpenStack great again09:08
persiacdent: Surely you wouldn't stop writing the report just because you were not elected?09:08
openstackgerritSean McGinnis proposed openstack/governance master: Update docs job info to match current PTI  https://review.openstack.org/55657609:09
cdentpersia: Sadly, I would. I can only justify the time required, in terms of balancing professional requirements and attention if I am _in_ the TC. That's kind of stupid, but that's the reality at the moment. In fact, as it stands I can't really justify the time, but I do it anyway.09:10
smcginnisI need to reread all of the Adjutant comments, but I'm not actually sure how to move that along.09:10
cdentpersia: It's an unfortunate truth of things, and is a large part of what drove my statements in last week's report about the privileged position of "influence tokens".09:11
smcginnisI thought I was starting to understand it, but then not and now what it is and how it fits is a bit nebulous in my mind.09:11
cdentI need to revisit that too, as I went and did a bunch of nova stuff since last time, which means my cache is dirty.09:11
persiacdent: Ah, yes.  I suppose this is why the cry for a free and independent press is so common.  You'll just have to write a good platform then.09:12
ttxjohnthetubaguy: how is your HPC constellation coming up ?09:15
ttxDo we know if any current member is *not* running again?09:16
ttxI'll likely not run for chair but still run for election, so that we don't change everything in one go09:16
smcginnisI'm not sure if dims was going to. He's been pretty busy elsewhere lately.09:17
smcginnisAnd I think dtroyer had made a statement somewhere that he was not planning on it.09:17
ttxsmcginnis, cdent: assuming you're running again ?09:18
ttxflaper87, johnthetubaguy: any plans ?09:18
smcginnisttx: Yep, I was planning on it.09:18
smcginnisJust need to figure out what my "platform" is I guess.09:19
cdentI will run again, I think. I had intended not to (one year and done) but I don't feel like I'm actually done, so will carry on.09:19
smcginnisSame as not feeling done.09:19
johnthetubaguyttx: not started on the constellation yet, doing it in parallel with a particular deploy, which is likely starting mid April09:20
ttxjohnthetubaguy: cool.09:20
johnthetubaguyso election wise, I wasn't going run again09:20
* cdent pours one out for johnthetubaguy 09:20
johnthetubaguynot getting time these days, need to priorities nova-core upstream time really09:21
cdentI struggle with that split too.09:21
ttxok, so that means we'll have a decent number of open slots. How is the encouragement of new candidates going so far09:22
cdentI've put a few words in a few ears, but not as much as I had meant to do by now.09:22
smcginnisI've not really had any conversations yet this time around.09:23
cdentI fear there are quite a few people who are in the position of "but what do you people really do anyway?"09:23
cdentAs in: If you want to have impact, the TC may not be the place to have it.09:24
* cdent watches the tumbleweeds roll by09:27
persiaPeople are far too used to executive management structures, where someone is in charge.  The idea of the rule of law used to empower all is surprisingly culturally alien to most of us, despite the prevelance accross the world.09:27
flaper87ttx fwiw, I don't thino I'll run again. It's my third round and I feel it's time for me to step down and let other's bring something to the table. Also, I feel I haven't had a significant impact in the last couple of months.09:27
persiaAs is the idea that we are all bound to serve occasionally, if we want to take advantage of the benefits that come from participation in such an environment.09:27
cdentpersia: sure, yes, don't disagree with any of that.09:29
smcginnisThe idea of influence in an open source project can be very subtle and hard to explain.09:29
smcginnisI think in a lot of ways, there probably are (or can be) bigger ways to have an impact.09:29
ttxflaper87: well, I for one appreciated your balanced insights!09:29
ttxcdent: I'm busy recruiting candidates09:30
cdentsmcginnis: Yeah, it all depends on where/how you want to have impact. Plenty of people want to "make something"09:30
persiaPolicy is "something"09:31
flaper87ttx 😊 tanks a bunch09:31
cdentpersia: unless you are a fine print reader like yourself, plenty of people never see or experience (directly) the impact of policy. I'm not making a judgement about that one way or another, just reporting.09:32
mugsieunfortunately code is a more tangible thing than policy for a lot of people (and management)09:32
persiacdent: Yes.  The mark of good policy is that the polity need not care about the content, as it feels natural and comfortable to all.09:33
smcginnisPolicy can also be something some have a hard time talking about, while debating the merits of code changes is second nature to them.09:33
mugsiesmcginnis: ++09:33
ttxmugsie: yes, that's why exposing parallel stewardship avenues like championing goals or other cross-project work is, I think, essential09:34
ttxBeing elected at the TC and doing policy (or being PTL) should not be the only way to be a leader in this community09:35
ttxbut then it takes time to change established expectations09:36
ttxQuick reminder that if you have ideas for Vancouver forum discussion topics, please add to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-forum-TC-sessions09:37
ttxWe have until April 15 to submit them to the forumtopics.o.o tool09:38
cdentI think the cross-community governance topic is going to be quite important. I'm seeing increasing instances of people initially looking to the TC for resolution on some query and then realizing that's not the right spot09:40
cdentFor example, the recent discussion about slack on the kata-containers list invoked the TC for a bit and then realized, "ah, wait, no"09:40
cdentI suspect that the degree of permeability (which is a good thing) will result in continued confusion09:41
cdentIt's hard, also, to not feel a bit diluted09:41
smcginniscdent: Are you referring to non-OpenStack but Foundation supported communities?09:43
smcginnisI was a bit surprised by a board member who seemed to think we (TC) had some say in one of those communities.09:45
cdentI think the flow of info is a lot less friction free than we'd like it to be `09:49
persiaI feel fairly strongly that leadership should not require election or appointment.  I believe that is true in OpenStack today, and hope it continues to be true.09:53
ttxsmcginnis: well, it's not totally crazy from a bylaws perspective to consider that there is one TC for everything. It just doesn't make sense community-wise, but I still can understand why one would see it that way09:55
ttxwhich is why continued education on how our communities work is always needed09:56
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dims_cdent : smcginnis : ttx : i'll be up for one more turn. will have to think hard about an employer who will actually support work without a "tit;e10:47
persiadims_: Or maybe see if there is a way to define titles that are work-acceptable but have duties that might be of more benefit to the sponsors?10:49
dims_persia : possibly. my argument is someone should support fully in the work then use their title in the community. (not just salary)10:55
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persiaI'm against the idea of "using a title", and mostly against staff using "community" to do other than directed, but I suspect that words aside, we agree that folk should take positions because they are funded to properly fulfill the duties, and organsiations should fund folk to do specific things, rather than because of positions they may hold.10:59
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dtroyerdims_: +++ regarding employment perception of value without community title/position.  To confirm what smcginnis said, I will not be running again, like flaper87 I have seen my available time greatly reduced, and that is with an employer that likes public titles.12:29
* cdent gives dtroyer a diet coke icee12:30
dtroyermmmmmmmmm… frozen carbonated caffiene12:32
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mriedemso next ptg dates are known?15:03
dims_not that i know of mriedem. dunno if ttx is around15:07
smcginnisI've heard the week of Sept 10, but location has not been officially announced yet.15:08
cdentmriedem: what I've heard is sometime in september, sometime before sept 22 (over by then)15:08
ttxyes target week is Sept 10 week, otherwise Sept 17 week... no confirmation yet though15:08
ttxso don't book anything15:09
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