Tuesday, 2018-02-20

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cdenttc-members awake09:00
cdentGot anything to talk about cmurphy? Only thing on my mind is making sure we have what matters on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PTG-Dublin-TC-topics09:05
cmurphyi got nothin'09:06
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openstackgerritJean-Philippe Evrard proposed openstack/governance master: Add openstack-ansible-nspawn.* to OpenStack-Ansible  https://review.openstack.org/54609109:34
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fungithat was almost as quiet as the wednesday hour12:53
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cdentfungi: with ttx on the slopes...12:54
fungiindeed. however will we find things to talk about?12:56
fungimaybe we should have followed him to the alps12:56
cdentfield trip!13:02
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* cdent waves at EmilienM 13:48
* EmilienM wants to sleep13:48
dhellmanntc-members: here's a discussion topic to be thinking about this week and next: What would you like to change about how the TC works? (procedures we use, activities/topics we're involved in, whatever else you might want to mention)14:02
dhellmannit's good for us to do a retrospective periodically14:02
cdentdhellmann: good one. "topics we're involved"14:03
persiaDoes that perhaps belong on the etherpad?14:03
dhellmanncan you be more specific about which topics we should/n't be involved in?14:03
dhellmannsure, I can add it there14:03
* dhellmann needs to organize his rocky bookmarks list better14:04
cdentdhellmann: I'm not sure if I can, I just think it is a worthwhile topic.14:04
dhellmannok. give it some thought. I have some nascent ideas about general procedures but I want to hear what others think and let those gel a bit before I start the deeper conversation about them14:07
cdentdhellmann: also because of February, I'm not sure my mind is in the right place to get past a dreadful feeling of "I'm not sure what we are or are not doing, it all feels wrong!!!". I should be better next week after some re-connect with humans14:09
dhellmannsure. it's not a quiz; it's a conversation starter. :-)14:10
* cdent nods14:14
cdentI appreciate, very much, that it is that way. In some other contexts I frequent trying to do "a conversation starter" is a non-starter...14:14
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TheJuliaGood morning14:36
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smcginnisTheJulia: o/14:40
* cdent waves14:43
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fungii'm watching a road crew (very slowly) build a sidewalk at the end of my driveway15:18
fungithe whole house is vibrating15:18
fungii think they're compacting the base layer right now15:19
smcginnisThey rebuilt the entire roadway by my house over the last two summers.15:19
smcginnisFirst summer from my road east, second summer from my road west.15:20
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smcginnisThere were some days the whole house was shaking to the point my monitor moving was giving me a headache.15:20
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fungithey've been working on relocating the cable distribution and have been taking my broadband up and dwon since thursday, but it's been down continuously now for the past 24 hours and the provider couldn't tell me when to expect it to be restored... _that's_ giving me a headache15:21
smcginnisUgh, frustrating.15:22
* cdent always assumed fungi had his own built in networking15:23
fungii gave in this morning and plugged a wireless modem into my workstation so i wouldn't have to spend another day on a laptop15:26
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openstackgerritMohammed Naser proposed openstack/governance master: Add puppet-monasca to Puppet OpenStack  https://review.openstack.org/54619015:42
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pabelangerif people haven't had a chance to see, https://review.openstack.org/545010/ adds naming poll info for S release15:51
pabelanger2018-02-21 is listed when we open polling15:52
pabelangerand would be great to finish off and merge15:52
persiaAs in, if this doesn't get merged today, it needs to be updated to have a new start date.15:53
persiaSo, who can merge whilst ttx is skiing?15:54
persiaIs that any TC member?  Is there an acting deputy chair this week?15:54
pabelangeryah, i think that would be the case (new start date)16:00
pabelangerbut would need to defer to others16:00
cdentI seem to recall dhellmann being able to do such things in the past, or maybe fungi16:00
cdentbut I don't think just any roll-call voter can16:00
dtroyermy recollection matches cdent's16:01
persiaProcedurally, in the days of meetings, ttx used to nominate an acting chair for holidays.  That might be something that should not have dropped when meetings were dropped.16:01
persiaDo we believe we can build consensus for dhellmann to be acting chair today, so that he can merge https://review.openstack.org/545010/ ?16:02
fungii agree with persia16:02
persia(this frees fungi to fiddle the bits to permit dhellman to do this in the event that gerrit is uncooperative)16:02
fungier, i mean i agree with persia that we should have remembered to delegate tc chair responsibilities for this week, but that's not to say that i necessarily believe we can do so retroactively16:03
persiaOh :(16:03
fungiperhaps if we have sufficient consensus to replace the tc chair we can consider that viable for temporarilydelegating those responsibilities through the end of the week?16:04
* fungi checks what percent we need for that16:05
pabelangeris ttx on PTO or travelling to PTG?16:05
persiapabelanger: skiiing this week, then travel to PTG this weekend, as I understand it.16:05
pabelangerah, nice16:05
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fungihrm, we don't specify a percent consensus needed in https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/charter.html#tc-chair16:07
fungii guess it just requires strict (>50%) majority to confirm?16:07
dhellmannI don't have gerrit permissions to approve patches, but I think if we all agree that the thing is approved then we can just pretend it merged and proceed accordingly16:07
fungiignoring the bit about the bod approving the tc chair that is16:07
dhellmannlet's not let technical issues get in the way of doing things16:07
persiaThat's one reading.  I could also read 'it requires permission and consent of the board', but I like your reading better to work around the problem we have today.16:08
fungidhellmann: i prefer that solution honestly16:08
dhellmannand then we can put "make sure multiple people can approve patches" on the ptg list for discussion16:08
fungiconsensus of the board has been achieved, approving the measure is merely a formality16:08
fungier, s/board/committee/16:08
persiafungi: I meant foundation board in my statement, hence liking your reading better.16:08
fungiyep, me too16:09
persiaSo, to confirm, is there a strict majority of the TC active now who authorises pabelanger to pretend 545010 has been merged?16:09
persia(please indicate assent, so there is a record)16:09
fungibut regardless, i also agree with dhellmann that we don't really need the measure approved to be able to move forward with the naming poll16:09
persiafungi: So no further approval is required, and the action should just be taken, without a new TC stamp?  I like that, but it is counter to how I've observed the TC working the past couple years.16:10
dhellmannI count 10 votes on the patch and if we assume pabelanger also supports it that's 1116:11
fungii count 10 in favor, 2 abstaining and 1 not having weighed in on https://review.openstack.org/54501016:11
dhellmannunder our normal rules that is approved and would be merged a couple of days after reaching 7 votes16:11
dhellmannwho abstained?16:12
fungii was counting pabelanger and ttx as abstentions16:12
dhellmannI counted pabelanger as +1 since he wrote it :-)16:12
fungieither way, i concur we have plenty of assent16:12
dhellmannright, so, pabelanger : please carry on with the next steps16:13
fungiand it'll get approved whenever ttx is around next to push a button16:13
pabelangerokay, thanks all!16:14
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pabelangerI'll start sending out emails to ML shortly16:14
dhellmannI've added this to item 12 in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PTG-Dublin-TC-topics for discussion next week, if we get to it16:15
fungiwe reached 7 in favor yesterday (with a strict interpretation counting pabelanger as abstaining), so that would have made it merge tomorrowish regardless16:15
pabelangercould I +1 rollcall-vote my own patch?16:16
pabelangeri admit i am not sure16:16
dhellmannpabelanger : sure, it would remove the ambiguity about whether you're abstaining or voting in favor16:17
dhellmannit seems fungi and I at least are making different assumptions on that point16:17
dhellmannpabelanger : in the past I've written proposals and voted -1 as part of illustrating that we have several options but I prefer one over the other16:17
fungiyeah, i figure it's a matter of personal preference, but if you want to propose a measure and then abstain from voting on it the only easy way we have to do that is a 0 rollcall vote16:18
pabelangerokay, I've voted, but until now assumed person proposing the patch also was +1 rollcall-vote16:18
dhellmannperhaps that's another thing for us to document in the house rules16:19
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mnaserhi everyone, it looks like for a while we did not release puppet-monasca so i proposed adding it here - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/546190/ -- what's the usual timeline for this to merge (and if it's a longer one, we might release all other puppet modules except this until it merges)17:47
mnasermainly because our release job is failing due to the fact that the project is not in openstack/governance17:47
fungimnaser: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/house-rules.html#other-project-team-updates applies to this under normal circumstances17:57
fungibut we're without a tc chair this week, so there could be a bit of an approval delay17:58
mnaserah i see17:58
fungispecifically this would probably apply: "In corner cases where the change is time-sensitive (like a deliverable reorganization which blocks a release request), the chair may fast-track the change, but should report on that exception in the TC update."17:58
mnaserdhellmann, smcginnis: can i ask you on your input on what do you think we should do from a release perspective given ^ ?17:59
fungiotherwise it takes ~ one week from posting if nobody objects17:59
fungimnaser: it's cycle-trailing anyway though, right?17:59
fungiseems like if it gets approved next week that would still work out?18:00
mnaserfungi: correct, but we're trying to work with some downstream consumers (such as rdo) who are looking to build packages for these puppet modules and make sure they work correctly with the queens packages18:00
fungii wonder if they could temporarily track a particular merge commit id or branch tip until the tag exists18:01
* fungi doesn't really know much about their package build automation to guess whether they have some capability for that sort of exception18:01
mnaserdmsimard might be able to answer that best18:02
fungithat guy knows everything18:02
dmsimardAbout to drop kids at school from lunch, I'll catch up in a bit18:02
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cdentrises from the smoke, pronounces, then fades away18:04
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dhellmannmnaser, fungi , smcginnis : if we have a patch to add the repo to governance that looks like it's going to be approved I would be comfortable going ahead with the release. That probably means disabling the governance check, but that's not a big deal to toggle on/off18:09
fungithat wfm too18:09
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smcginnisThat works for me. I don't see this being a contentious issue.18:13
dhellmannit's not like we're adding a new service or something, just a new module to an existing project18:13
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mnaserdhellmann: thank you!18:25
dmsimardmnaser, fungi: my answer isn't going to change the outcome which appears to have already been decided but we're not going to delay the release of RDO for puppet-monasca, we'd figure something out :)18:50
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dhellmannyeah, we don't have these processes in place to hold things up. the point is to make sure we're documenting and communicating clearly and fully.18:56
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smcginnisSo for the "Welcome to the PTG" lunch presentation next week, pabelanger and I are doing a few slides on what's coming up.20:19
smcginnisThierry wanted one that talks about "bridging" the discussion from Sydney.20:19
smcginnisSo far I only have fast forward upgrades.20:19
smcginnisAnyone else have any big community-wide things that were discussed in Sydney that are going to continue in Dublin?20:19
dhellmannsmcginnis : LTS?20:20
smcginnisdhellmann: Oh, that might be good. I've kind of been lumping that into the FFU discussion, but it really is its own seperate thing.20:20
persiaOr any big community-wide things that were decided in Sydney that are important to know for people who didn't attend and will be in Dublin?20:20
smcginnispersia: That might be even better to highlight.20:21
persiasmcginnis: I think answers to your question are more important, but my question might fill the time if you are short on topics :)20:21
smcginnispersia: No, that's a very good point to bring up. Thanks!20:22
mtreinishsmcginnis: maybe mention the pti changes? We'll be have and Q+A/general feedback session about stestr on tues before lunch20:24
smcginnismtreinish: Cool, I will add it to there unless bigger issues push it off the list. ;)20:25
mtreinishsmcginnis: cool20:25
smcginnisBut that's not looking likely so far.20:25
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Add naming poll info for S release  https://review.openstack.org/54501021:05
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fungilooks like ttx merged that ^ one from the slopes21:24
fungi(or more likely while sitting by the fire in the lodge)21:24
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