| openstackgerrit | Ghanshyam Mann proposed openstack/governance master: Add tempest-stress in Quality Assurance https://review.openstack.org/533026 | 01:41 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: the new ptgbot lets you dynamically allocate rooms to a track (beyond the pre-allocation) so we could use that flexibility to pick the best time on the spot | 07:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | Witold Bedyk proposed openstack/governance master: Update goals status for Monasca https://review.openstack.org/491458 | 13:27 |
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| rosmaita | EmilienM what's the deadline for community goals proposals? | 13:49 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: we could. I'd like us to put it on the schedule, though, so that people plan around it. We tend to emphasize letting TC members spend time with other teams. Let's try the other way this time? | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | rosmaita : I'm not sure we set a deadline. ttx? We want to have things decided before the PTG, so sooner is better. Did you have something in mind? | 14:54 |
| ttx | dhellmann: works for me. Friday morning ? | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, that's what I was thinking, to avoid any issues with folks leaving early | 14:54 |
| ttx | dhellmann: rosmaita: EmilienM coordinates goal collection -- not sure if he had a deadline in mind. I think we should select them before FF | 14:55 |
| ttx | i.e. stop collecting suggestion next week and discuss/vote which the next week or so | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | makes sense. maybe we should list that as a deadline on the release calendar for next cycle | 14:56 |
| rosmaita | ok, cool, i will get something up over the weekend | 14:56 |
| rosmaita | i am going to propose a free-form goal | 14:57 |
| dhellmann | rosmaita : "free-form"? | 14:57 |
| rosmaita | you'll see ... i need to do some stuff in glance that doesn't apply to everyone | 14:58 |
| rosmaita | probably everyone else is in same position | 14:58 |
| dhellmann | hmm, ok. you've piqued my interest. | 14:58 |
| rosmaita | glance could use a cycle off from community goals, some of the previous goals have piled up some tech debt, but i saw the discussion that taking a cycle off would be bad, so this is my attempt to have it both ways | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | ah | 15:01 |
| EmilienM | ttx, rosmaita: deadline is PTG imho | 15:01 |
| EmilienM | even before | 15:01 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : we need to decide in time to have PTG time lined up to discuss the work, right? | 15:02 |
| EmilienM | very true | 15:02 |
| rosmaita | EmilienM thanks, it was the how-far-before part i wasn't sure of | 15:02 |
| EmilienM | I think right now we have some goals and some champions, we might have decided within the next 2 weeks | 15:02 |
| EmilienM | so I would say "in 2 weeks we have goals & champions" if things continue to go right | 15:02 |
| cdent | dhellmann, ttx: I agree with putting it on the schedule for the reasons dhellmann says | 15:03 |
| ttx | EmilienM: yes, well before PTG since we need to know if we want rooms to work on them or not | 15:09 |
| EmilienM | yeah ok | 15:09 |
| ttx | Ideally we'd decide before start of cycle, which arguably starts when we branch stable/queens and master swicthes to Rocky | 15:09 |
| ttx | which happens over the coming month | 15:10 |
| cmurphy | is there going to be a community-wide vote on goals? or ml discussion or ptg room? or is it just the tc that decides on our own? | 15:12 |
| ttx | ML discussionm TC decision | 15:12 |
| ttx | s/m,/ | 15:12 |
| cmurphy | mmk | 15:12 |
| * ttx should not try to discuss in two channels at the same time | 15:12 | |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Zuul has been restarted and lost queue information; changes in progress will need to be rechecked. | 16:46 | |
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| ttx | Interesting data point from OVH on Keystone v3 adoption: https://twitter.com/pilgrimstack/status/951860289141641217 | 16:57 |
| cmurphy | that is interesting | 17:03 |
| ttx | we could ask him for more raw data (this one in particular, but I'm pretty sure they would be open in sharing other type of information too) | 17:15 |
| jroll | ttx: the most interesting bit is that only 26% of tools have sufficient documentation about what sorts of clouds they do and don't support | 17:55 |
| persia | A related interesting question: how is that tooling determining how to interact with keystone? Is there API discovery, are people writing their own clients based on docs, are people importing a known client? Some of that 74% could be users that don't care about versions (like shade consumers). | 18:00 |
| fungi | smcginnis: cdent: condolences on not getting board seats this time, but please run again next time if you're still up to it! | 18:04 |
| EmilienM | yes, ++ ^ | 18:05 |
| cdent | Thanks fungi. Next time seems a very long way away, who knows what the world will look like, but it's definitely on the radar for now. | 18:05 |
| fungi | we did still get some board members elected who are strong allies of our technical community, even if we didn't get any current technical committee members elected to the board this round | 18:06 |
| cdent | Indeed. I've already informed mordred that he has to carry a torch. | 18:07 |
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| mordred | persia, ttx: I just tweet-asked him if he has break-down numbers he can share .. we've also been trying to get at least all of the official python-based things to provide meaningful user-agent strings | 18:17 |
| mnaser | this sounds like a fun topic | 18:33 |
| * mnaser ssh's into keystone api servers | 18:33 | |
| mnaser | 82% of our requests are v3 | 18:37 |
| mnaser | https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Openstack+Cloud+Plugin supports keystone v3 (but disappointingly v1 image api only) | 18:38 |
| * persia wonders if there is benefit in setting up a gamable stats publication site to allow operators to brag about how "the most advanced customers use this cloud" | 18:41 | |
| smcginnis | Thanks fungi! It was worth a shot. | 18:47 |
| mtreinish | mnaser: I'm a proud member of the 18% :p (mostly because I'm too lazy to update my scripts for daily snapshot) | 18:49 |
| mnaser | mtreinish: i do admit it is a bit more tedious figuring out the game of bingo to get the right combo of vars configured | 18:50 |
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| mnaser | between project and user and project domain and user domain, etc | 18:50 |
| mtreinish | mnaser: yeah, that is a bit annoying | 18:52 |
| mtreinish | although in my case I'm using https://github.com/mtreinish/mesocyclone and the tempest clients in those scripts so there is a bit more work involved to make the switchover | 18:53 |
| mtreinish | mostly because I have to remember how I put it together :p | 18:54 |
| mnaser | mtreinish: whats more fun is when you forget how you put it together, build a big plan in your head how you'll rebuild it even better with all these ideas, and realize its what you did in the first place | 18:54 |
| mnaser | "thanks old me!" | 18:54 |
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| fungi | yeah, i enjoy occasionally getting love letters from past fungi to present fungi | 19:45 |
| fungi | unfortunately, it's hard to send hatemail from present me to old me for making certain design choices | 19:46 |
| fungi | (or life choices for that matter) | 19:46 |
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| future_fungi | fungi: I have updated instructions, please set up the receiver | 19:59 |
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| mnaser | :D | 19:59 |
| mtreinish | cdent, fungi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdT7r1OXFQ0 | 20:00 |
| smcginnis | lol | 20:00 |
| cdent | ha! | 20:01 |
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| dims | lol | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | tc-members, I could use your input on this thread: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-January/126189.html | 20:45 |
| cdent | dhellmann: skimmed it, looked reasonable, will look more closely by monday | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | cdent : thanks | 20:46 |
| cdent | I definitely agree that the amount of churn in the current way is subpar | 20:46 |
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| pabelanger | dhellmann: I don't have any objections if people would like to try using SB myself | 20:49 |
| pabelanger | I've seem some internal teams do something like this using trello, and seem to work well for them | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | reading the SB client docs, I wonder where I get a token | 20:52 |
| fungi | i'm intrigued by the proposal, but as a past and present sb proponent i'll wait for some more balanced feedback before providing my own | 21:08 |
| fungi | dhellmann: great question wrt token generation. i don't have the answer but suggest asking in #storyboard and then we can update the docs | 21:09 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: no objection | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | fungi : ack, thanks | 21:09 |
| fungi | no more than one person should need to ask this particular question before the documentation answers it | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM , pabelanger : could you reply to that effect on the thread (if you haven't already)? | 21:09 |
| EmilienM | of course | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | fungi: I suspect the answer is "it depends on your auth provider" | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | I imagine I'll need to get the launchpad libraries involved somewhere, for example | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | which makes me wonder if we already have a CLI somewhere | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | there isn't one in the python-storyboardclient repo as far as I can tell | 21:10 |
| fungi | i think sb tokens are independent of openid, but could of course be wrong | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | ah, ok | 21:13 |
| fungi | my recollection is that api tokens are a workaround for the terribleness of trying to do openid in automation | 21:13 |
| fungi | and came about in the era of getting the storyboard-its plugin for gerrit working properly | 21:14 |
| fungi | so i _think_ review.openstack.org is using a durable api token rather than openid to authenticate its calls to storyboard.openstack.org | 21:14 |
| fungi | i'll grant it's probably gotten so little use that the docs are lagging shamefully | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | yeah, docs seem to be a major stumbling block for me | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | wrt storyboard that is | 21:15 |
| fungi | as with most software, the docs could use some love and contributors | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | maybe the foundation can hire an english major with an interest in technical writing as an intern to write some docs | 21:16 |
| fungi | was https://docs.openstack.org/infra/storyboard/webapi/v1.html#api not sufficient? | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | well, I didn't look there, because I was looking at the client docs | 21:17 |
| fungi | i'll warrant the url there likely needs editing | 21:17 |
| fungi | and yeah, that could probably stand to at least be linked from the client docs, if not moved into them | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | I've asked for more detail on that page in the past. I don't know what sort of search query syntax is supported, for example | 21:17 |
| fungi | yep, it's vague. i believe it to the the same search syntax the webclient supports for lookups, not that the comparison is necessarily helpful | 21:18 |
| smcginnis | dhellmann: By CLI, I assume you are looking for something other than boardtty (or whatever it's called) | 21:24 |
| smcginnis | And +1 for storyboard for goals. That might be a good way to get more folks exposed to it and make the eventual transition away from launchpad easier. | 21:26 |
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| smcginnis | fungi: IIRC, the scripts to migrate bugs from launchpad to storyboard use a special range of numbers/IDs. Is it possible to start using storyboard, then later migrate the existing bugs over? | 21:27 |
| fungi | smcginnis: in theory, i suppose. yes freshly-minted sb story numbers start at a high enough offset to preclude collision with imported lp bugs | 21:31 |
| fungi | for future compatibility with bug references we reserved the low story numbers exclusively for imports from lp bugs | 21:32 |
| smcginnis | It could cause some confusion perhaps, but I wonder if that is a way we could ease some migrations without all needing to take a giant leap at once. | 21:32 |
| fungi | well, we've already mostly concluded that waiting for projects who share bugs in lp to migrate together will result in none of them ever migrating | 21:33 |
| fungi | and that it's probably easier to just take the divergence hit between them for the bugs where they overlap (and the import script can still import new comments on already-imported lp bugs when rerun) | 21:33 |
| smcginnis | That's what I'm afraid of with cinder, nova, os-brick, etc. | 21:34 |
| fungi | i mean, it's already the case that other relatively closely-related software (outside openstack) may already use different defect trackers, and those communities/users/devs seem to manage to get by | 21:35 |
| TheJulia | I have the same fear with ironic, and all of it's various locations of lp bugs | 21:35 |
| TheJulia | s/it's/its/ | 21:35 |
| fungi | comes down to cat-herding, at its most basic level | 21:36 |
| persia | Some history on storyboard CLI: there was some initial work done, but none of the people worling on it cared about CLI (they were mostly API consuming folk), and even python-storyboardclient doesn't support some things in the API. Once boartty was developed, I think just about all the work on both CLI and python-storyboardclient mostly ended. | 21:36 |
| TheJulia | Well, cat herding from an authoritative cat herding position. I've already perceived resistance to change, which means that to get it done, it will have to be a "you will migrate" or a "Here is the massive value gain, now lets migrate!" situation. | 21:37 |
| smcginnis | Otherwise the law of inertia rules. | 21:38 |
| TheJulia | Yeah, the positive thing is it will be minimally interruptive to work in progress. | 21:38 |
| persia | tracking release goals is the best "massive value gain" I've heard proposed for SB. Most of the other advantages of SB over LP are fairly minor (and the OpenStack community has a number of different ways to handle those, e.g. prioritisation etherpads) | 21:39 |
| TheJulia | persia: well said | 21:40 |
| dhellmann | smcginnis , persia : yeah, I'm looking for a way to script creation of stories and tasks for the goals stuff, so a general purpose cli I could wrap would be good but an interactive tool is less so | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | we could write a custom script just for that purpose, too, I suppose | 21:41 |
| persia | dhellmann: If you're fine with scripting in python, python-storyboardclient can do most of that. It's more around boards, worklists, permissions, etc. that the python client is less well tested. | 21:42 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we'll want it to create a board, too, but that's less onerous to do by hand than creating 50+ tasks for tracking | 21:42 |
| persia | And you'd probably want to subscribe folk to the board, so they get notifications of changes there (as story subscribers don't get notified just because someone made a board). | 21:43 |
| dhellmann | I wasn't able to find a way to subscribe to notifications for a board in the UI; is that even supported? | 21:43 |
| persia | I had thought so, but don't see a UI element. Folk in #storyboard will probably know for sure. | 21:46 |
| dhellmann | ok | 21:46 |
| dhellmann | It's EOD for me here, but I'll follow up next week | 21:47 |
| dhellmann | thanks for your help, persia & fungi | 21:49 |
| * dtroyer wakes up in time to see everyone start weekending… | 21:49 | |
| dtroyer | I love the idea to put the goals in SB, as said above, having a reason to use it is a great way to get people exposed to it and make them want to migrate the other things | 21:50 |
| persia | dhellmann: Eventually we'll have sufficient automation and interface that we can all know everything. Until then, we'll just have to share what we know :) | 21:50 |
| fungi | honestly, the biggest "massive value gain" to me is openstack still having working task/defect tracking even if lp falls over | 21:51 |
| * dhellmann makes a note to print more "write it down" buttons for dublin | 21:51 | |
| * fungi would totally war a "write it down" button | 21:53 | |
| fungi | wear too | 21:53 |
| dhellmann | now I'm down a rabbit hole looking at sites that let you have custom pins made | 22:10 |
| dhellmann | though I think I want a release ring: https://www.ringsource.com | 22:10 |
| dhellmann | that's even better than a challenge coin | 22:10 |
| dtroyer | Class of 2018 RULZ! | 22:11 |
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| fungi | here's to all the 2018 queens! | 22:20 |
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