| dmsimard | harlowja: I think even cdent's summary is going to need a tl;dr | 00:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Update policy goal for cloudkitty https://review.openstack.org/523174 | 09:25 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Add an openstack/self-healing-sig repository https://review.openstack.org/525328 | 09:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Added octavia queens tempest plugin planning. https://review.openstack.org/525768 | 09:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Python 35 congress completion artifact https://review.openstack.org/526247 | 09:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Mark the completion of tempest plugin split goal for murano team https://review.openstack.org/526250 | 09:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: add "champions and stewards" as a top-5 help wanted area https://review.openstack.org/510656 | 09:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Rename 'top-5 help wanted' to 'help most needed' https://review.openstack.org/520619 | 09:40 |
| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: add redirect for renamed top-5-list file https://review.openstack.org/527138 | 09:40 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: Rename 'top-5 help wanted' to 'help most needed' https://review.openstack.org/520619 | 09:53 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: add redirect for renamed top-5-list file https://review.openstack.org/527138 | 09:55 |
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| ttx | dims: was there recent progress on the LTS discussion ? As far as I can tell activity on that etherpad stalled... What's the current status ? Anything I can do to help ? | 14:10 |
| dims | waiting for a few things ttx 1) need to catch up with doug to see if there was some consensus in downstream redhat 2) waiting on chris price from ericsson 3) waiting on kandan from at&t as well. hoping to get all these come january. So let's wait a bit. i really want to get things going before we reach Dublin so we can get started in Dublin | 14:13 |
| dims | sounds like a plan? | 14:13 |
| dims | Huawei downstream is not particularly interested ... | 14:14 |
| dims | i talked to kandan and chris in kubecon | 14:14 |
| ttx | dims: sounds good | 14:16 |
| ttx | just wanted to make sure that was not stalled, you seem to have it under control | 14:16 |
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| dims | yep, will definitely ping you and we can get things going | 14:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dai Dang Van proposed openstack/governance master: Update policy goal for watcher https://review.openstack.org/527299 | 15:24 |
| fungi | i have to wonder if stuff like http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-December/125636.html isn't reinforcing the lack of tripleo contributor affiliation diversity... "a way to reproduce upstream jobs, in your personal RDO cloud tenant, making easy to developers to debug and reproduce their code." | 15:37 |
| fungi | does rdo give personal tenants to any developer who wants to contribute to tripleo? | 15:38 |
| fungi | mwhahaha: ^ maybe you know? is rdo cloud open to everyone, or just employees of some companies? | 15:39 |
| fungi | if anyone can request a personal rdo cloud tenant, i think that's really cool | 15:40 |
| cdent | EmilienM might know something about all that ^ | 15:44 |
| openstackgerrit | Graham Hayes proposed openstack/governance master: Add assert:supports-accessible-upgrade to designate https://review.openstack.org/528315 | 15:45 |
| EmilienM | i'm in mtg, brb | 15:46 |
| fungi | https://www.rdoproject.org/blog/2017/11/upcoming-changes-to-test-day/ and https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rdo-queens-m2-cloud seem to imply that it's open to anyone who wants to help | 15:57 |
| fungi | i wonder if that could have been more widely announced. it's a pretty awesome move enabling more involvement on the rdo team's part | 15:59 |
| pabelanger | fungi: yah, I think they are onetime account for testing days, but IIRC anybody is free to sign up to help | 16:05 |
| fungi | am i correct in assuming that's what arxcruz meant by "your personal RDO cloud tenant"? | 16:06 |
| fungi | or is this something separate? | 16:06 |
| pabelanger | I am not sure about that, I'll defer to mwhahaha and EmilienM | 16:07 |
| pabelanger | however, I have an account on RDOcloud, mostly because I asked on an internal process for it | 16:07 |
| pabelanger | I am unsure if there is an external process outside of test days | 16:07 |
| EmilienM | ok I'm back | 16:07 |
| EmilienM | fungi: to be honest, 1) I don't know the answer if yes/no anyone can get access to RDO Cloud and 2) I agree it doesn't encourage diversity if it's not the case | 16:08 |
| EmilienM | but I never saw any rejection when someone asked for help or resources | 16:09 |
| EmilienM | RDO Cloud has been created for all developers working on OpenStack | 16:09 |
| EmilienM | I can't imagine them refusing you an account | 16:09 |
| fungi | EmilienM: sounds pretty cool then. is there a published process for signing up? | 16:10 |
| EmilienM | now, what the TripleO CI team is a tool to reproduce CI jobs, not only in RDO Cloud but in any OpenStack cloud | 16:10 |
| EmilienM | but the TripleO CI team is using RDO Cloud. I hope that makes the thread more clear | 16:10 |
| fungi | okay, so it was misleading phrasing in the sprint summary implying that it would only work in rdo cloud tenants? | 16:11 |
| EmilienM | fungi: let me ask on #rdo | 16:11 |
| EmilienM | fungi: yes it was | 16:11 |
| EmilienM | fungi: for example, I have my own servers and I run tripleo on them. I don't need RDO Cloud | 16:11 |
| EmilienM | fungi: the tooling isn't made for RDO Cloud. It's just tested on it | 16:11 |
| * persia sees two separate issues a) RDO signup process is maybe not widely enough publicised (making the message disclusive, even if it is a general resource) and b) use of the phrase "personal RDO tenant" when the meaning was "personal OpenStack tenant". | 16:11 | |
| EmilienM | I asked apevec on #rdo | 16:12 |
| EmilienM | fungi: I sent a message to Alan Pevec and give him the IRC history, so we can follow up | 16:13 |
| fungi | appreciated. i wasn't the only person who, upon reading that sprint summary, thought it implied that it ignored the possibility that non-red-hat employees might also be (interested in becoming) tripleo developers | 16:13 |
| EmilienM | fungi: I'll reply to the thread. I agree with you we need to be more inclusive | 16:14 |
| fungi | thanks! | 16:14 |
| dmsimard | fungi: I'm the one who came up with the idea for the cloud environment for the RDO test day, I explain the context here: https://dmsimard.com/2017/11/29/come-try-a-real-openstack-queens-deployment/ | 16:17 |
| dmsimard | fungi: It was as widely announced as we could, and was definitely open to anyone -- I even posted to openstack-operators (but though openstack-dev would not have been appropriate) | 16:17 |
| dmsimard | s/though/thought/ | 16:18 |
| dmsimard | If we're happy with the way things turned out -- and I think we've been relatively successful, we want to repeat the experiment with different projects -- for example the next milestone test day could be a test cloud driven by kolla and the kolla cores would be involved in deploying the cloud and operating/troubleshooting it for the duration of the test days | 16:19 |
| dmsimard | The general idea being to test OpenStack (as packaged by RDO, which is vanilla and equivalent to master branches) while providing the opportunity for deployment projects to get real user feedback -- sometimes we'll find issues in the deployment project, sometimes we'll find issues in the different projects (nova, neutron, etc.) and we'll collaborate with users and contributors to file bugs/fix them | 16:21 |
| dmsimard | We meant to collaborate with a hosting provider for the duration of the event but it was too short notice so we're paying this one out of our pocket | 16:22 |
| fungi | and that used tenants in rdo cloud? | 16:23 |
| fungi | neat | 16:23 |
| dmsimard | No, the test day is a standalone deployment by Packstack on an OnMetal node in RAX | 16:23 |
| fungi | ahh, okay so unrelated to the tripleo-quickstart sprint arxcruz posted about | 16:24 |
| dmsimard | yeah, I was about to get to RDO cloud but I saw there was also a discussion regarding test day so I addressed that one first | 16:24 |
| EmilienM | dmsimard: I replied to the thread, feel free to comment | 16:27 |
| fungi | thanks EmilienM and dmsimard! | 16:28 |
| dmsimard | RDO cloud is a TripleO deployment -- I would say the purpose is two-fold. First it is to dogfood TripleO with a tight feedback loop between the team operating the cloud and engineering with a clear and purposeful boundary between the two -- the team operating that cloud is in another organization within Red Hat. | 16:28 |
| dmsimard | by dogfood, I guess I forgot to mention that implicitely includes RDO | 16:29 |
| dmsimard | And then, the second purpose is to provide development and CI resources for RDO and TripleO contributors | 16:29 |
| EmilienM | fungi: also, jpich just told me that RDO Cloud is "at/over capacity already" | 16:29 |
| fungi | wow, popular! | 16:29 |
| dmsimard | I don't believe we would turn down a request to have access to the cloud if it would help a contributor from outside Red Hat | 16:30 |
| dmsimard | Just like for the test day we have had people from the CERN or other organizations | 16:30 |
| fungi | well, regardless EmilienM's reply clears it up for me. arxcruz wrongly implied that the goal only enabled reproducing jobs in rdo cloud tenants | 16:31 |
| dmsimard | fungi: I'll summarize on the thread, hope that clarifies things | 16:31 |
| fungi | thanks again! | 16:32 |
| cdent | mriedem: you're doing a great job of stepping back from that thread... | 16:54 |
| mriedem | cdent: i'm doing an even better job of documenting my results for my yearly eval | 16:55 |
| mriedem | been working on that since 2 hours ago | 16:55 |
| mriedem | wc = 0 | 16:55 |
| cdent | woot! | 16:55 |
| cdent | "Did a lot of good shit for openstack" | 16:56 |
| cdent | done | 16:56 |
| mriedem | i'm just extremely frustrated by the sweeping generalization | 16:56 |
| mriedem | nobody gives a shit about stable branches upstream | 16:56 |
| mriedem | nova isn't working on what matters | 16:56 |
| mriedem | nova's api is completely unstable | 16:56 |
| cdent | I'm hoping dtroyer will clarify, because I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant | 16:57 |
| mriedem | people been talkin, and i won't name names or projects, but you know, people been talkin, and let's flip the table | 16:57 |
| mriedem | alright, back to eval | 16:58 |
| dtroyer | mriedem: I'm in meeting hell and that probably wasn't the best time to send that message, but it totally isn't directed at you or the Nova team specifically, more at the overall culture here | 16:59 |
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| mriedem | if it was directed at openstack overall, that is clearly not obvious | 17:04 |
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| dtroyer | fair enough, and again in retrospect I shouldn't have sent it when I can't follow up in a timely manner. My frustration is with our (TC, OpenStack leadership, board, etc) apparent inability to actually address things | 17:08 |
| dtroyer | and yes, that is another sweeping generalization that I don't have time to back up right now, but that's the focus of my thinking | 17:09 |
| cdent | dtroyer: how much of that do you think stems from an unwillingness to do something akin to root cause analysis? | 17:09 |
| dtroyer | cdent: I wish it were that simple, I think the root cause is more a prevalent "looking out for #1" where "#1" is not the commons. there are always exceptions of course | 17:10 |
| cdent | I was hoping you weren't going to say that :( :) | 17:11 |
| persia | One of the stranger effects I notice as I travel is that in places with few natural resources (including those depleted or damaged), maintenance of the commons is essential to survival, leading to apparent external wealth (parts of germany (especially those devastated previously), Singapore, Japan, Doha, etc. In places with abundant resources, sometimes there are no functional commons, and no apparent wealth. | 17:14 |
| persia | I suspect there's a way to apply that same model to software, although I haven't found the right words for it. | 17:14 |
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| cdent | huh, members of the UC don't seem impressed by ttx's informal model for how to do sig governance... | 17:27 |
| mugsie | cdent: we need another good bikeshed | 17:28 |
| cdent | so soon! | 17:29 |
| mugsie | this does remind me of academic governance a little bit :) | 17:29 |
| * mugsie once sat in a meeting, working out an agenda for a meeting, that would plan who would be in a steering group, which would plan a review meeting, which would send a report to the people in the original meeting | 17:31 | |
| cdent | you must be so proud | 17:31 |
| mugsie | a little bit of me died that day | 17:32 |
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| ttx | cdent: any particular mention? | 17:42 |
| ttx | cdent: re. SIG governance | 17:42 |
| ttx | I might have missed it | 17:43 |
| cdent | ttx: on the user-committee list | 17:43 |
| ttx | heh, I'll let Melvin defend it, since he co-authored it | 17:43 |
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| fungi | i think i got it straightened out. people talking past one another | 22:07 |
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