Thursday, 2017-11-16

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openstackgerritDai Dang Van proposed openstack/governance master: Mark Searchlight policy in code as done
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fungianother appointment this morning, but hopefully will be back in time for office hour today12:43
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fungitc-members: office hour if anyone's sufficiently recovered from summiting15:00
smcginnisSlept great last night. :)15:00
ttxFirst topic I had: should we move our office hours time now that we switched off DST?15:01
ttxThis one in particular is a bit early for west coast15:01
ttxwhile it's supposed to cover them15:02
dhellmann+0 -- it conflicts with an internal meeting I attend sometimes, but I can manage if others don't want to shift it15:02
smcginnisCurrent time is fine with me, but would be open to moving it a little later. No conflicts at least.15:02
fungithe only other thing i have on my schedule anywhere close to this time is the security team meeting at 17:00z which i usually make an attempt to attend15:03
ttxselection bias in that sample15:03
ttxmostly interested in EmilienM dtroyer...15:03
ttxwho else on west coast15:04
ttxProbably simpler to start a thread15:04
ttxor a doodle15:05
ttxor both15:05
fungihowever, if we push thursday office hour to 16:00z i'd rather not move it again in 6 months15:05
flaper87go with a doodle15:05
ttxI'll do that15:05
flaper87fungi: ++15:05
fungistable utc meeting times are more important in my opinion15:05
ttxunfortunately my dinner time is linked to local TZ, not utc15:05
EmilienMno conflict, I start my days at 6am anyway15:06
EmilienMand it's 7 here15:06
* dhellmann looks askance at EmilienM 15:06
smcginnisfungi: ++15:06
* flaper87 starts his days at 6am too and he's not even in the west coast15:06
flaper87difference is, EmilienM does it for a good reason, I'm just weird15:07
ttxMy second topic was about the TC more formally selecting election officials so that their delegation of power is more explicit15:07
ttxThat was a request of the current officials15:07
smcginnisIs there a concern with the wrong people being election officials?15:07
EmilienMflaper87: you're weird.15:07
dhellmanndo we need to be more "formal" or just do it earlier?15:07
ttxsmcginnis: it's more of a way to include them in some form of governance15:07
ttxdhellmann: both15:08
ttxI'll propose something around making the election officials a workgroup of the TC15:08
dhellmannI wonder if the UC would be interested in some stable election team, too? maybe we want to set them up as a sig?15:08
ttxah hm15:08
dhellmannbut yeah, at least a wg15:08
* dhellmann didn't mean to sow confusion15:09
ttxlet's do it first15:09
smcginnisSmells a bit of bureaucracy, but if there is a concern, I'm fine with making it a formal thing.15:09
ttxok, will propose something along those lines15:09
dhellmannsmcginnis : sometimes bureaucracy removes ambiguity in a way that builds trust15:10
fungifrom the conversations i was present for, i got the impression it was less about formality and more about continuity15:10
ttxdhellmann: I see you've been watching a video15:10
dhellmannttx: busted15:10
flaper87ttx: dhellmann lol15:10
* flaper87 watched it too15:10
ttxdhellmann: it's good, but basically in OpenStack we avoided the floating by building up front, because I knew what would happen without it15:11
dhellmannfungi : good point. a wg feels like a good starting point, since it's the only thing we have other than project teams for designated "long term" groups15:11
dhellmannttx: yeah, I thought it was interesting how they ran into all of the problems we tried to preempt15:12
ttxso I think the story as presented is more a sign that they didn't have enough open source community experience :)15:12
fungiand the current election officials are starting to get more involved in maintaining the tooling used for elections too, since we now have apis in gerrit and the foundation member system which make it possible for someone who isn't on the infra team or foundation staff to query the necessary data15:12
dhellmannnot that surprising, given the source, but I think they're learning15:12
ttxdhellmann: well, I kike that it serves as a reminder of what happens if you don't set up governance/bureaucracy15:13
flaper87so, what would this formalization of election officials would look like?15:13
dhellmannttx: ++, it's a good counter point to an argument against structure15:13
flaper87am a bit confused about what the expected result is15:13
fungii still need to watch that video. this week has been entirely about catching up on deferred appointments for me15:14
ttxflaper87: I will add a page to track working groups on governance.o.o and track then as such15:14
ttxthen -> the election official15:14
* ttx is still very much in jet lag15:14
dhellmannit sounded like they wanted to know they would be approved to be election officials for more than 1 election in advance so they could improve the tools15:14
fungipretty much that, yes15:15
fungiand a little more autonomy in recruiting other election officials15:15
dhellmannif we have people willing to do that, I think we should encourage them, and writing down the fact that we're doing that is part of the transparency I would expect around elections15:15
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smcginnisWhat is this video everyone15:15
smcginniss referring to15:15
fungismcginnis: it's linked in scrollback, just a sec15:16
ttxok, that's all I had. I've been running through the etherpads to collect actions from forum15:16
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ttxIs anyone planning to post a summary of the first contact -> contributor experience SIG session ?15:17
fungismcginnis: or i thought it was... now i need to go find where i saw it15:17
ttxon the ml15:17
dhellmannI would expect the session leader to do that. Who was the leader for that one?15:17
smcginnisfungi, ttx: Thanks!15:17
dhellmannsmcginnis , fungi : ML thread is please respond there if you have comments to share15:17
ttxdhellmann: I think the original moderator wasn't present and I may have run the session in his palce15:19
ttxI can post the followup15:19
ttxdiablo_rojo being on vacation15:19
fungiin addition to missing the moderator, the session attendees were mostly just the tc15:20
ttxdhellmann: we need to "finalize" the top-5 list too, how is the latest addition going ?15:20
dhellmannI haven't done anything with that. Did we want to go ahead with the champions and stewards item, or wait for the lts thing to settle down in case we want to ask for help there?15:22
* ttx considers renaming the list the "top help wanted" instead of top 5 and say that it shoyuld not have more than 5 items15:22
fungiopenstack classifieds, help wanted column15:23
smcginnisI actually like the idea of a help wanted board.15:23
fungithe infra team already maintains one, to organize its unassigned specs15:24
ttxit's a bit orthogonal though15:24
fungibut yeah, for this it's more of an opportunity for the tc to attempt to divine the "top <n>" places the community is in most dire need of help15:25
flaper87ttx: +1 on the rename of the list, fwiw.15:25
dhellmannI'm not sure how much we want to dilute the effect of this curated list by letting it grow really long15:25
ttxok, I'll do that15:25
ttxmaximum 5 items15:25
fungiagreed on short, and 5 is good as an upper limit15:25
dhellmannI could update the existing champions/stewards proposal, but the feedback on that was trending towards "it's too vague" and I can definitely see that15:27
smcginnisThat was kind of my feel on it.15:27
ttxyeah, and we kept Glance on the list mostly as a way to get to 515:27
johnthetubaguydhellmann: I keep struggling where we put the "its important but too vague" ideas, so people can run with some of them15:28
dhellmannit's hard to say exactly what is needed, though, until we don't have anyone to do something that's critical and we can't do it and it's too late to recruit15:28
dhellmannI feel a bit like we're saying we want to go back to some golden age when contributors had more leeway in where they spent their time15:28
smcginnisGlance probably still good to have on there. The PTL is currently having some non-work issues that may pull him away for awhile.15:29
dhellmannand I'm not sure that was ever really the case15:29
smcginnisdhellmann: ++ I think very few actually have that leeway.15:29
dhellmannyeah, I thought we kept glance because while things were improving we hadn't really recruited *new* contributors15:29
fungii agree wrt stewards, it's likely people _want_ to do that but simply can't find the time to commit to it15:29
dhellmannsmcginnis : right, so that's what we're asking for, which is by definition vague15:29
smcginnisGlance has improved slightly, but I would not consider it fully healthy.15:30
flaper87smcginnis: ++15:30
openstackgerritThierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Rename 'top-5 help wanted' to 'top help wanted'
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smcginnisIt's kind of like saying we need more code reviewers. I've been saying that every time I get in front of people but I haven't really seen that improve.15:31
smcginnisSo I'm just not sure saying we need more stewards is going to suddenly get people to decide to do it.15:31
dhellmannmaybe we need to focus that down to goal champions15:32
smcginnisThat's at least a little more specific.15:32
dhellmannwe can describe that role in a little more detail15:32
dhellmannI'll try that15:34
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johnthetubaguydhellmann: is it worth writing it to a manager, saying what the value is in allowing people to do that thing15:36
johnthetubaguya bit like that "i want to go to summit" letter15:36
dhellmannI'll have to think about how to express it that way15:37
dhellmanndo you think the current text doesn't express the value clearly enough? I thought the issue was with expressing what we were actually asking for15:38
ttxok, office hour thread posted15:38
dhellmannlike we were lacking details for someone who did want to volunteer15:38
fungithanks ttx15:38
ttxlinking to a framadate at
johnthetubaguyI should go re-read that again... and comment on there15:42
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : that would be good. I'll try to rework it later today or tomorrow15:43
TheJuliaGoing back (since my brain has been elsewhere writing $words) to timing, I'm okay with this time even though I'll soon be living in the pacific timezone.15:49
dimsTheJulia : nice writeup on mogan :) thanks!15:53
TheJuliaI do agree that it is good to try and convey value of contributing but at the same time the context into what needs to be conveyed so it can be understood what the commitment is.15:55
TheJuliadims: If you mean the ironic write-up, I don't even remember those words at this point.  Too much writing....15:56
* dtroyer timezone fail hereā€¦and i US Central so not too early as-is15:56
dimsTheJulia : the abstention one in mogan governance15:56
TheJuliaAhh, yeah, that is the recent $words, I still have more words to write elsewhere this morning. :(15:57
dimsi hear ya :)15:57
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johnthetubaguyYeah, +1 the thank you on that write up, just went through those bits16:11
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openstackgerritThierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Rename 'top-5 help wanted' to 'top help wanted'
EmilienMfor those who were in the stable policy feedback session in Sydney, I pushed a patch to remove the tag for Kolla: - more feedback is welcome. Thanks17:08
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pabelangerdhellmann: ttx: left a comment on 520619, when I say 'top help wanted' aloud, it doesn't ring well with my ears. It could just be me :)  maybe something long the lines of community help wanted or even help wanted18:40
dhellmannpabelanger : yeah, we need to work on the name18:42
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