Tuesday, 2017-10-31

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openstackgerritKendall Nelson proposed openstack/governance master: Add Storyboard Migration to Rocky  https://review.openstack.org/51387500:54
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openstackgerritHongbin Lu proposed openstack/governance master: Zun completion of split tempest plugin goal  https://review.openstack.org/51650703:54
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openstackgerritNiraj Singh proposed openstack/governance master: Add project repository  https://review.openstack.org/51655408:30
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ttxtc-members office hour time09:02
ttxalmost missed it with DST end09:02
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ttxwhich makes me think -- we might want to push them back +1h once the US shifts off DST, to realign with biologic times09:03
ttxotherwise some will start a bit early for some09:04
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ttxtc-members, sorry about the confusion but apparently we are back to a 1pm start for the joint leadership meeting09:05
gcb_ttx: is it TC office hour now?09:22
ttxgcb_: yes09:23
ttxbut not many people around apparently09:23
ttxgcb_: will you be in Sydney ?09:24
gcb_yes,  we have a feedback discussion about the time of PTG  can we have it in same city of  OpenStack Summit but in different time slots09:26
gcb_It's separated event but close with the Summit.09:26
gcb_It's easy for companies send their engineers there and save travel costs09:28
gcb_From foundation side , It doesn't reduce the sponsor fees from company09:28
ttxwe've been having that discussion in the past, it was rejected because (1) that would make too much travel in one go for people with family (two weeks away), and the summit does not happen necessarily where most developers are09:29
ttxIf you look at Sydney, sending all developers there is a bit weird when we don't have that many developers in that corner of the world09:30
gcb_ttx: developers can just attend the PTG if they don't want to attend the Summit09:30
ttxsure, but it's still easier globally to send them to Denver or Dublin than to Sydney09:30
ttxsince in Denver/Dublin at least some of them are local09:31
ttxbut yes, I'm happy to have that discussion again09:31
ttxmight be worth revisiting09:31
ttxSummits also happen in more expensive cities09:32
ttxso overall what you gain in flight tickets you end up losing in hotel costs09:32
gcb_one week travel is not friendly for some developers like jet lag , four time visa application... just my feels :-)09:32
ttxgcb_: that's fair, thanks for sharing. It's definitely a trade-off09:33
gcb_yeah, we can discuss this in Sydney,  I collected some suggest from Chinese developers/companies :-)09:33
ttxif summit was 2-3 days and PTG 3-4 days we could probably make it work09:33
ttxbut currently it's 3-4 + 4-5 so it's a long week09:34
gcb_some projects need 5 days like Nova,  other projects may not need 5 days09:34
gcb_ttx: agree09:34
ttxalso the timing cyclewise is suboptimal for one or the other. Summits are best places a couple of months away from last release, while PTG needs to happen at the start of cycle for optimal results09:34
ttxBack when we coupled the events we basically asked the summit to take the hit -- with lots of presentations about release n-109:36
ttxand vendors with outdated products09:36
ttxthe split allowed to place each at the optimal point in time09:36
gcb_Not sure how many company used the latest N or N-1 release for their product09:37
ttxwith the Sydney summit in November, at least some distros and vendors will have Pike stuff to show09:38
ttxIf the Summit happened closer to release and around PTG time, just no way :)09:38
ttxso we ended up collecting feedback from release N-1 at Summit, which was 6 months old09:39
ttxgcb_: see https://ttx.re/how-splitting-enhances-dev-process.html for original rationale to the split09:39
ttxAlso https://ttx.re/splitting-out-design-summit.html09:40
gcb_ttx:  I know the benefit of splitting out two events. just wondering if we have a survey about PTG and Summit event.09:40
* ttx grabs coffee09:41
* gcb_ will leave for dinner09:43
gcb_it's not easy to make decisions liked by everyone,  would like to have more discussion in Sydney09:45
ttxgcb_: yes we should! Also the environment changed, so the trade-off might not be as valid, so it's good to revisit09:49
* ttx updates the Tracker09:49
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Select Thierry Carrez as chair  https://review.openstack.org/51455309:57
ttxhttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Technical_Committee_Tracker updated09:58
* johnthetubaguy goes to fix his calendar, oops10:02
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johnthetubaguyalthough +1 the moving forward an hour10:06
cdentcalendar fail10:07
* cdent loses his timezone compute merit badge10:07
cmurphymy calendar was right but it's a public holdiay in germany >.>10:11
ttxsee mentions above, joint leadership meeting is back at 1pm10:15
ttxso we need to grab food before10:15
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Marking Sahara policy in code goal as done  https://review.openstack.org/51442210:16
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Add the supports-rolling-upgrade tag to Ironic  https://review.openstack.org/51444810:16
openstackgerritMerged openstack/governance master: Add Glance planning artifact for community goal  https://review.openstack.org/51444910:16
cdentttx most of the morning session remains open to the public, yeah?10:20
ttxyes, there is an executive segment that should be closed10:42
ttxbut the rest is open10:42
cdent“a bit wordy for the targeted audience” is often true. I have very mixed feelings on that.10:55
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fungii'm maybe -0.5 on shuffling all the office hours around twice a year for no good reason. if the ones we've chosen are inconvenient when parts of the world decide to shift their clocks by an hour then we should strive to find slots that work year-round rather than constantly rescheduling and confusing the rest of the community11:59
fungii may be biased though since i opt out of my country's obsession with redefining its timezones semiannually12:00
fungiand am rather glad that as a community we choose to base our calendars off a single world timezone which itself doesn't observe hour shifts back and forth on a whim12:02
cmurphy++ everyone shifts around at different times and some places don't shift at all, better just to define it once and for all12:02
cdentI agree with fungi and cmurphy, the only reason I missed it this morning is because my calendar entry was broken. Jumping around all over the place no good12:08
cdentutc 4 evah12:08
fungii need to get back to my plan to devise an actual "universal" planck-scale timekeeping system which accounts for relativistic effects between frames of reference12:13
cdentI would guess that if future you has achieved that then he doesn’t like present day you, otherwise you’d already know.12:19
fungii wouldn't be surprised. future me is a bit of a jerk12:20
ttxI'm fine with current times, but fear we might be missing west coast people at 1500utc when DST ends12:53
ttxwhile this is theory was the all-US+Europe slot12:53
ttxSee etherpad for our office hour @ https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SYD-tc-office-hour13:08
ttx(the one in Sydney)13:08
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openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed openstack/governance master: Add supports-accessible-upgrade tag to ironic*  https://review.openstack.org/51667113:21
smcginnis+1 for not adjusting twice a year.13:35
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openstackgerritLuka Peschke proposed openstack/governance master: Add CloudKitty Tempest plugin  https://review.openstack.org/51668413:44
dhellmannttx: what do you have in mind for the top-5 review item on the meeting agenda?13:51
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ttxdhellmann: go through them + educate (again) about activity not happening in a vacuum14:31
dhellmannmakes sense14:32
ttxI have limited expectations but at least after it they can't pretend they ignore where to help14:32
ttxbasically places the ball in their court14:33
ttxtheir side of the court14:33
ttxwhich may be useful when we reach "OpenStack Strategy and vision" agenda point14:34
ttxif it is what I think it is14:34
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dhellmannhmm, the stable team isn't on that top 5 list14:53
dhellmannI wonder if adding that to the list instead of stewards would be better for us in the short term14:54
dhellmanngiven the recurring theme of having an LTS release14:54
smcginnisIt is a hot topic lately.14:55
dhellmanntonyb : what do you think? ^^14:56
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openstackgerritDoug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: update the documentation team PTL in the top-5 list  https://review.openstack.org/51671215:13
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dhellmannfungi : can you give a couple of highlights for the status of the infra team with respect to the tc top-5 list? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/syd-leadership-top-5-update15:17
dhellmannmaybe work with clarkb?15:17
dhellmannmugsie. smcginnis : same question, can you give us a quick update on the designate top 5 item? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/syd-leadership-top-5-update15:18
dhellmannrosmaita, flaper87 : same question for glance; can you let us know how things are going? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/syd-leadership-top-5-update15:19
mugsiesure, in a nutshell - 0 movement from it, but will give some more detail in the etherpad15:19
flaper87dhellmann: roger :D15:19
dhellmannmugsie : thanks15:19
dhellmannflaper87 : thanks15:19
fungidhellmann: sure, i'm not confident we have much to highlight other than reiterate things in the top-5 entry15:19
fungiwe'll be highlighting it in the project update and in the onboarding session15:20
dhellmannthis is for the board/tc meeting, so anything you'd want to say there would be good15:20
dhellmannincluding "we still need help"15:20
fungiahh, yep. that one's already on there15:20
dhellmannI think we want a couple of bullet points on each15:21
fungibut i'll see what clarkb wants to add15:21
dhellmanncool, thanks15:21
rosmaitadhellmann: will put something on the etherpad15:28
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zanebcdent: this is why I organise all my meetings on Reykjavik time :)16:01
fungithose icelanders know how to have a good time16:07
smcginnisfungi: That was so bad it was funny.16:08
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fungidon't forget to tip your waiters16:09
cdentzaneb: so yeah, I had been but when I switched jobs my calendar went into the dark mysterious land of exchange16:19
cdentand just now when I tried to update to use the Reykjavik things got all kinds of messed up and flipped all the tables in the house and burnt down the world16:20
smcginniscdent: If you're using outlook, you can actually set the meeting timezone it UTC.16:20
cdenti’m using the web office 365 outlook and it hates me and I hate it and we have not yet come to any type of detente that allows real communication16:21
zanebcdent: wait, you switched jobs?16:22
cdentzaneb: yeah, from mirantis to vmware back june/july ish16:22
ttxdhellmann: one issue is that "stable branch maintenance team members" is not really the job description17:01
ttxdhellmann: what we actually need to support LTS is more infra/qa people watching the branch infrastructure17:01
ttxwhich is a large part of the issue -- those are just not easy to find17:02
ttxso in my head the "infra sysadmins" item was covering a bit of the LTS needs17:03
ttxSo the people we are looking for would live at the intersection of the infra team, the QA team and the stable branch maint team. It's hard to describe, beyond "more people like sdague / mtreinish / fungi / ..."17:16
mugsieas well as some people to work on the actual projects as well - projects that are not in devstack / tempest itself tend to have gates that bit rot17:18
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dhellmannttx: fair enough17:38
dhellmannmugsie : yes, good point17:38
dhellmannwe also need help with stable release reviews17:39
mugsieyeah. it is too easy for people to just +2 without understanding the why of our policy17:39
mugsieor just ignore them17:40
* mugsie included17:40
fungii'm starting to think stable review and security review groups might ought to get combined too, since the reviews of patches on embargoed vulnerability reports almost always come down to "is this suitable for backport per stable branch policy" (as well as needing stable branch reviewers on hand to quickly approve those backports at the time of publication)18:12
fungior at a minimum, it would be good for teams to ensure a sufficient mix of security-focused core reviewers and stable branch reviewers in their security review groups18:18
openstackgerritRuby Loo proposed openstack/governance master: Add supports-accessible-upgrade tag to ironic*  https://review.openstack.org/51667118:25
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TheJuliafungi: Seems reasonable to me21:55
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harlowjaso whatever happened to the idea that kolla would be the new devstack?23:04
harlowjadid that sorta fade away23:04
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openstackgerritDai Dang Van proposed openstack/governance master: Add policy artifacts for senlin  https://review.openstack.org/51490823:32
tonybdhellmann: Adding stable to the list is possibly an idea best discussed in person.  after we see what the 2 stable'ish sessions at the summit bring.23:33
tonybdhellmann: If there really is interest in somethign like and LTS once we knwo what that looks like we can decide where ti encourage additional help.23:33
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fungiincluding beefing up the groups doing security patching/backporting23:40
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