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| fungi | office-hour... commence! | 01:00 |
|---|---|---|
| fungi | but, you know, don't all talk at once or anything | 01:00 |
| * dtroyer watches carefully from over here | 01:00 | |
| dtroyer | looks like I missed a bunch this morning... | 01:01 |
| dtroyer | I'm a bit surprised that the idea that we've supported CD from the start isn't a) written down anywhere and b) is a surprise to as many people as it seems to be... | 01:02 |
| fungi | i think it's not a huge surprise that nova has done | 01:03 |
| fungi | i don't know that it's necessarily translated to the children of nova however | 01:03 |
| dtroyer | good point, but mentally I include the usual 'core/early' projects in that, at least Keystone, Cinder and Glance | 01:05 |
| fungi | feels like the further descendants get the less that message has necessarily been carried on | 01:05 |
| dtroyer | not too surprising that it hasn't spread to projects, as the spread of developers from early projects or newer ones is the exception rather than the rule | 01:07 |
| dtroyer | s/or/to/ | 01:07 |
| smcginnis | dtroyer: My big issue is point a. Let's at least write this down. | 01:14 |
| dtroyer | smcginnis: roger, I actually thought it was somewhere | 01:16 |
| smcginnis | I don't entirely agree with everything related to it, but I at least would like the expectation written down one way or the other. | 01:16 |
| openstackgerrit | Duong Ha-Quang proposed openstack/governance master: Add kolla-ansible-plugins https://review.openstack.org/491413 | 01:17 |
| dtroyer | this is a lot like the database support discussion, with many of the same assumptions and consequences | 01:17 |
| dtroyer | I'm hoping we can use that as a template | 01:18 |
| smcginnis | That's what I was thinking. We need a "Declare plainly the current state of CD in OpenStack" | 01:19 |
| * dims peeks | 01:30 | |
| fungi | it was an okay half of an office hour anyway | 02:12 |
| fungi | office half-hour | 02:12 |
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| ttx | smcginnis: more generally, I wonder if we should not produce reports that give the state of the union regularly. It's hard to answer "do we support Python 3" or "how well is CD supported", and I'm not sure TC resolutions is the best format for that. | 07:55 |
| ttx | As it's more documentation on state, than governance | 08:02 |
| ttx | I had the same conclusion wrt. organizational diversity, or project contribution demographics. | 08:14 |
| ttx | Maybe some "openstack quaterly" publication with peer-reviewed articles | 08:15 |
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| fungi | cdent: excellent article, thanks for linking | 17:11 |
| fungi | as for "distros doing python 3 by default" it really depends on what you mean | 17:12 |
| cdent | I liked that article because it helped label some things already seen | 17:12 |
| smcginnis | 3.6? Or 3.5 being the default? | 17:13 |
| fungi | agreed, it helped reinforce for me that the things i/we are working toward may help reinforce and stabilize | 17:13 |
| fungi | on the python 3 "defaults" (pep 394) discussion, this has reared its head again on again on the linux-sig@m.p.o ml starting last month: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/linux-sig/2017-July/000029.html | 17:16 |
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| smcginnis | fungi: Makes sense to me to try to standardize on /usr/bin/python pointing to py3. | 17:18 |
| fungi | also some related discussion on the debian-python@l.d.o ml: https://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2017/08/msg00028.html | 17:18 |
| fungi | upshot is that at least some distros may just stop providing /usr/bin/python rather than have it invoke anything other than python2 | 17:19 |
| fungi | so "by default" could mean that there is no python other than /usr/bin/python3 on the system once /usr/bin/python2 is no longer provided, or could mean that /usr/bin/python invokes python3 (that's been the case on arch for years), or something else | 17:20 |
| fungi | it also may be that soon distros stop providing /usr/bin/python by default but still provide /usr/bin/python2 and /usr/bin/python3 and expect you to be explicit about which you're running or provide your own generic interpreter name that does what you're expecting | 17:22 |
| fungi | and the argument for not having /usr/bin/python invoke python3 is that even years after distros stop shipping python2 users may be compiling their own python2 and expecting their "#!/usr/bin/env python" scripts to use that | 17:23 |
| fungi | so... it's complicated | 17:23 |
| fungi | i personally have latest point releases of 2.7, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5 and 3.6 installed in my homedir and link them from ~/bin/ which is at the start of my path so i can test some personal projects which i want to support all of the above | 17:24 |
| cdent | clearly we should switch everything to statically linked go | 17:24 |
| * cdent does something similar | 17:24 | |
| smcginnis | :D | 17:26 |
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| dims | did anyone see this yet? https://www.cncf.io/announcement/2017/08/09/amazon-web-services-joins-cloud-native-computing-foundation-platinum-member/ | 17:54 |
| dhellmann | cdent, fungi : this ansible role includes some steps for installing pre-packaged versions of the interpreters: https://github.com/dhellmann/ansible-python-dev | 17:55 |
| dhellmann | dims : not yet, thanks | 17:55 |
| dhellmann | it makes sense for them to join | 17:55 |
| cdent | thanks dhellmann | 17:57 |
| fungi | perhaps amazon will join just long enough to introduce a competing foundation and then shut the cncf down | 17:58 |
| fungi | like they do with businesses | 17:58 |
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| mtreinish | fungi: heh, I've had /usr/bin/python as py3 from my distro for years. It's been that way for as long as I've been writing python (which means I've had to work around it in my env) | 18:04 |
| dims | fungi : heh, who knows | 18:05 |
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| fungi | worried we may have a crisis coming if nobody steps up for telemetry ptl in the next couple hours | 21:02 |
| fungi | in addition to the ml reminders, persia popped into their irc channel yesterday and asked but was ignored there too | 21:02 |
| fungi | seems like it could result in downstream shockwaves if we have to step in, given the relatively broad and long-standing adoption of some of their deliverables | 21:07 |
| dims | fungi : right | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | that team is pretty small, I wonder if they're all on holiday at the same time | 21:09 |
| fungi | yeah, maybe we'll get lucky and one of them will come forward after the nomination period | 21:09 |
| smcginnis | Or in the next 7 hours. | 21:10 |
| * smcginnis is being overly optimistic | 21:10 | |
| fungi | PTL nomination ends in 0d2h34m30s | 21:10 |
| fungi | Aug 09, 2017 23:45 UTC | 21:10 |
| smcginnis | fungi: Really? The page shows me this: PTL nomination ends in 0d7h34m1s | 21:11 |
| fungi | election is scheduled to start at utc midnight | 21:11 |
| fungi | i wonder if the counter there is making assumptions about timezones/offsets | 21:11 |
| fungi | view-source:https://governance.openstack.org/election/_static/event_timer.js | 21:12 |
| fungi | my javascript is rusty, but i don't immediately see any timezone hard-coded in there or the calling page | 21:13 |
| smcginnis | Odd. I'm in my normal timezone too. | 21:14 |
| fungi | all my systems are set to utc so if yours is set to cdt(utc-0500) that could explain the difference we're seeing and hint at missing tz anchoring in the page | 21:15 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, I see the right date in the source, but nothing saying the tz of that date. | 21:16 |
| smcginnis | Maybe need to switch that to use full ISO 8601 format. | 21:17 |
| fungi | seems likely | 21:55 |
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