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| clayg | timburke: why is it so obvious to you that we re-order the part_info lists to put non-primary parts first - I mean if we're going to rehash all the parts anyway? Wouldn't it make more sense to break as soon as we encountered a non-primary part if there and .handoffs_remaining? | 00:23 |
|---|---|---|
| clayg | and at that point - should we do the sync jobs? | 00:23 |
| clayg | idk, i'll think about it some more or maybe we can discuss it later | 00:24 |
| timburke | i feel like we still wanna check primary parts for misplaced frags | 00:24 |
| clayg | i've run patch 425493 and it works great | 00:24 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/425493/ - swift - Make the reconstructor handoffs_first work (and us... | 00:24 |
| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/swift master: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/88736 | 00:25 |
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| timburke | clayg: now, you might be able to convince me that we should just bail and not hit any primary parts when doing handoffs_first, er, *only*. but i'm a little nervous that if you're multiple rebalances behind, you might have a lot of misplaced frags that happen to hit primary partitions (just not for that frag index) | 00:32 |
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| clayg | timburke: yeah i'm not sure on that last point - i think it's very questionable - I like it how i wrote it - i'm not sure if the follow up is needed/useful | 00:33 |
| timburke | moving the stuff we *know* we need to move => good. rehashing stuff that may or may not need to move so we can find out which it is => not bad? i think? | 00:33 |
| clayg | timburke: yes i think we agree on the value/risk tradeoff | 00:33 |
| timburke | i think the follow-up is useful! do the stuff we know we need to do first! | 00:33 |
| clayg | you might be right | 00:34 |
| clayg | if it's *just* like that - same work different order - it's probably fine | 00:34 |
| timburke | that's my thinking -- and i feel like it's pretty low-risk | 00:35 |
| clayg | i'm not sure how much helps to spike on handoffs then do a bunch of primary part rehashing that all get skipped as opposed to just letting it all spin | 00:35 |
| clayg | like I'm thinking with a concurrency of say.. 4 - with the sorting they will *all* be doing reverts - then they will *all* be doing local rehash (no-value) | 00:35 |
| clayg | if you let it fan out you have one or two shipping parts and one or two spinning on local rehash - but then they pick up a revert - and another revert finishes - and spins on local rehash for a bit | 00:36 |
| clayg | like having the sync/rehash mixed in I think is quick and doesn't really cost much - you mostly end up doing reverts | 00:36 |
| clayg | everytime a thread of execution hits a revert it'll essentially stall compared to the quick little local rehash/noops | 00:37 |
| clayg | so the majority of the time it might be like 3 doing revert and one is "between" - then all four are doing reverts | 00:37 |
| clayg | idk - i'm hesitant to say front loading is good until I test it | 00:37 |
| clayg | i'd be really curious about the clif when it finishes the first half of the list - it could be weird/strange | 00:38 |
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| kota_ | good morning | 01:09 |
| clayg | kota_: good moring! | 01:10 |
| kota_ | clayg: :D | 01:10 |
| kota_ | clayg: with quick look back to irc log, something progresses for handoffs_first patch? | 01:10 |
| clayg | kota_: i've been complaining to timburke all afternoon that I'm trying to work on patch 219165 - but he's heartless ;) | 01:11 |
| kota_ | patch 428408 and patch 425493 | 01:11 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219165/ - swift - EC Fragment Duplication - Foundational Global EC C... | 01:11 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/428408/ - swift - Optimize reconstructor handoffs_first | 01:11 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/425493/ - swift - Make the reconstructor handoffs_first work (and us... | 01:11 |
| kota_ | clayg: oh, ok | 01:11 |
| clayg | timburke: has been contemplating the finer points of orchestrating ec rebalance ant the nature of eventlet concurrency | 01:11 |
| kota_ | hmm | 01:13 |
| clayg | it's interesting stuff - easy to get caught up in it :) | 01:13 |
| kota_ | clayg: k, so it sounds like patch 219165 is still under reviews? | 01:15 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219165/ - swift - EC Fragment Duplication - Foundational Global EC C... | 01:15 |
| kota_ | could we start to adress some comments? | 01:15 |
| kota_ | clayg: and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427994/ looks still WIP | 01:15 |
| patchbot | patch 427994 - swift - WIP: trying to understand global-ec | 01:15 |
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| clayg | yes, i've made very little progress on patch 219165 today and am quite frustrated about that grrrrrr.... | 01:18 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219165/ - swift - EC Fragment Duplication - Foundational Global EC C... | 01:18 |
| clayg | patch 427994 is nothing - i'm trying to figure out how to offer resolutions to the issues I see as blockers for patch 219165 | 01:18 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427994/ - swift - WIP: trying to understand global-ec | 01:18 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219165/ - swift - EC Fragment Duplication - Foundational Global EC C... | 01:18 |
| kota_ | what's point for you? I looked quickly your comments yesterday, it seems that sorting is guilty for you? | 01:19 |
| clayg | which... is really just docs - so I should probably start there - but if you were able to go through my comments you probably gleaned that I had some other tactical concerns as well | 01:19 |
| kota_ | oh, docs too | 01:19 |
| clayg | mainly just docs - specifically about rasing the point that an operator can use a non-default ec_duplication_factor - it's really only for benchmarks w/o the corresponding ring change | 01:20 |
| kota_ | i see | 01:21 |
| clayg | I think there is risk of describing how ec_duplication_factor will be used with multi-region rings leading to a deployment with very unforunate data placement - so I feel messaging is important | 01:21 |
| clayg | i think I should start there | 01:21 |
| clayg | the other stuff I can probably get over myself | 01:21 |
| kota_ | ok | 01:22 |
| kota_ | will take to consider to add soon | 01:22 |
| kota_ | in this morning, I am going to make to get aproval for boston CFP | 01:22 |
| kota_ | ... | 01:22 |
| clayg | I am curious if you had another reason for the sort_key besides making TestObjectControllerECDuplication(ECTestMixin work? | 01:23 |
| kota_ | ah | 01:26 |
| clayg | or maybe more importantly how sort_key on the storage policy evolves to support affinity | 01:26 |
| kota_ | the reason I did on TestObjectControllerECDuplication was to make sure anything works well transpatently | 01:27 |
| kota_ | and about sort_key | 01:27 |
| kota_ | basically, I tend to get unique n fragments for the first pile | 01:27 |
| kota_ | get_fragment (correct method name) with ec_k pile spawn | 01:28 |
| kota_ | that is because, w/o ec_duplication, the candidate node is just shuffled (in default, or basis on read_affinity) | 01:29 |
| kota_ | and no care about duplication | 01:29 |
| clayg | ok, so I understood correctly that part - but I think the side-effect is not worth the trade off https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219165/47/swift/proxy/controllers/obj.py@2182 | 01:29 |
| patchbot | patch 219165 - swift - EC Fragment Duplication - Foundational Global EC C... | 01:29 |
| kota_ | so that, the proxy controller can get duplicated fragments even though it knows they're duplicated | 01:29 |
| clayg | yes, you reduce some requests - but not a lot - and the cost is all of the requests go to the same (arbitrary) nodes? | 01:30 |
| clayg | right, proxy should be robust to duplicate fragmnts already | 01:30 |
| kota_ | might be | 01:31 |
| clayg | perhaps I need to rerun my experiment with affinity enabled | 01:31 |
| kota_ | so i think you concerned the dispersion for the requests | 01:31 |
| clayg | kota_: it *is* - acoles_ worked for months on that - last time I reviewed the change I reverted *all* the changes to proxy.controller.obj and GET still worked | 01:31 |
| kota_ | in the last night i was thinking on I could make it something like pesion hole slots | 01:31 |
| kota_ | with shuffled nodes | 01:32 |
| clayg | unittests don't pass tho - because the (annoying) TestObjectControllerECDuplication(ECTestMixin expects a duplicated policy to make the *exact same* requests as a non-duplicated policy - which seems like a terrible burden to add to tests! | 01:32 |
| kota_ | oh, really | 01:32 |
| clayg | I think so? I expect that in *some* conditions we expect duplicated ec frags to make different requests? | 01:33 |
| clayg | I mean there's still a lot to learn about that | 01:33 |
| kota_ | ya, ya | 01:34 |
| clayg | idk, i guess I need to test it with affinity and try to write some tests | 01:34 |
| kota_ | ok | 01:34 |
| clayg | at least in the proxy tests the Mixin is a common base from which EC and ECDuplication derive | 01:36 |
| clayg | if we *want* to add a test that *only* runs on EC or ECDuplication there's a place to do that - if we want to add a test that runs on both - there's a place to do that | 01:37 |
| clayg | in the contoller tests it just goes TestECDuplicationObjController(TestECObjController) | 01:37 |
| clayg | so if you try to add a test to TestECObjController it *has* to work with the duplicated policy as well | 01:38 |
| kota_ | Oh, oh, gotcha | 01:39 |
| clayg | the fact that I can remove sort_key and it still works functionally but *all* of the tests break smells like undesirable coupling of unittest to implementation (instead of test to *behavior*) | 01:39 |
| kota_ | so let's make sort of ECMixin to define common test state and | 01:40 |
| clayg | but... it really is all sorta meta stuff - and could be fixed up later - I was just pointing it out | 01:40 |
| kota_ | specific tests should exist only in each TestCase classes | 01:40 |
| clayg | I think the *diff* would be a lot smaller without some of the Mixin refactoring - and I think we can be just as confident in the change with functional testing | 01:40 |
| clayg | (e.g. a inprocess functional test configuration that worked with duplicated policies would be *much* more attractive to me than the unittest Mixins) | 01:41 |
| clayg | I would be 100% satisfied with 0% overlap between the TestECDuplicationObjController and TestECObjController | 01:41 |
| clayg | even if there's only 3-4 tests in TestECDuplicationObjController - there's not *that* much that's different between TestECDuplicationObjController and TestECObjController - I don't we need as many tests to cover the behavior of of the ECObjController that's acctually different between duplicated EC and not duplicated EC | 01:42 |
| clayg | but I could be wrong - I need to split up the tests and see | 01:42 |
| clayg | so... lot of work for me | 01:42 |
| clayg | gunna be a late night :D | 01:43 |
| clayg | ... but I'll start with docs ... :P | 01:43 |
| kota_ | clayg: kk, thanks for you inputs, I'll re-consider on that | 01:46 |
| clayg | cool - i'll be around and working on this - so hit me up if you think of something | 01:46 |
| clayg | good luck! | 01:46 |
| kota_ | thanks! | 01:47 |
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| clayg | it's so hard to make heads or tails with the data placement messed up | 02:02 |
| clayg | I thought about making a "ring-zipper" that would take to rings and write out a new .ring.gz with the device list concatinated and the replica2part2dev glued together so I can rebalance region1.builder and region2.builder with 6 replicas then zip them into object-1.ring.gz | 02:03 |
| clayg | ... just to get a ring with reasonable placement for global-ec | 02:04 |
| clayg | so with my current bad placement and sorting_method affinity the sort_key avoids a bunch of requests | 02:04 |
| clayg | https://gist.github.com/clayg/eb1f9c53a49fa91135d2a9d81aa88f95 | 02:06 |
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| clayg | shoot - i got some sick kids at home - i need to commute back - i'll be on later | 02:07 |
| kota_ | clayg: take your time | 02:10 |
| clayg | i updated the gist with the acctual ondisk locations (and frag index #) of the object i'm testing with | 02:11 |
| clayg | it just a worse case scenario - I have a 4+2x2 and only 3 uniq frag per region :'( | 02:11 |
| kota_ | ok, and the # at the left is the region number? | 02:11 |
| clayg | yup | 02:12 |
| kota_ | ok | 02:12 |
| kota_ | lemme check | 02:12 |
| clayg | so this adds some weight behind sort_key I think - i was testing previously with shuffle and the extra requests (because proxy hit duplicates) were pretty few | 02:12 |
| clayg | ... and I *liked* that they got spread around to *all* the disks! | 02:13 |
| clayg | with affinity sorting + pathologically bad placement - sort_key the backend request count is not so good :\ | 02:13 |
| clayg | but I don't wanna add code - just to rip it out when we have compostie rings & per-policy sorting_method | 02:13 |
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| clayg | updated the gist again with some counts on the totals | 02:21 |
| kota_ | thx! | 02:22 |
| clayg | with shuffle (default) it's a bad tradeoff - with affinity it's a pretty significant win | 02:22 |
| clayg | I'm having trouble making a jugement call wrt affinity given our situation with placement :\ | 02:22 |
| clayg | and if I had a ring-zipper (i.e. good placement) I think no sort key would still perform just as good | 02:23 |
| clayg | so I lean toward not adding code we don't need | 02:23 |
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| clayg | i'm back | 07:31 |
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| clayg | jrichli: maybe I could have added the other interesting condition where process C conslidate_hashes does not get called - in that case the invalidation just sits in the invalidations file and all is right in the world after the next rehash - it's really more about consliate hashes being called while rehasing suffixes | 09:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Christian Schwede proposed openstack/swift master: Add support to increase object ring partition power https://review.openstack.org/337297 | 09:41 |
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| clayg | cschwede: if you're online and wrapped up on ppi - any braincells you have left would be much appreciated on patch 419787 | 09:48 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/419787/ - swift - Better optimistic lock in get_hashes | 09:48 |
| clayg | i'm sorry it grew so big - i tried to keep it small - but alister and pavel kept wanting to fix "just *one* more race condition" | 09:48 |
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| clayg | acoles_: ok we have to migrate all the ctype_ts stuff in the container db's to this now -> https://www.sqlite.org/json1.html | 10:00 |
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| acoles | notmyname: clayg anyone else FYI my bouncer is broken :/ | 10:28 |
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| kota_ | acoles: too bad :/ | 10:45 |
| kota_ | clayg: I just now finished up to read all your worth comments. | 10:46 |
| kota_ | clayg: in the rest of time i can stay at office today, I am going to try your WIP patch on global ec follow up. basically I agree the changes but it looks still get gate failure so that I'd try to resolve | 10:47 |
| kota_ | sorry, still am delay to circle back to your reconstructor change. | 10:47 |
| kota_ | clayg: | 10:47 |
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| kota_ | and timburke, sorry, probably, i cannot reach out the swift3 change for one keystone request in this week. | 10:48 |
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| acoles_ | cschwede: thanks for reviewing the suffix hashing patch! | 12:32 |
| cschwede | acoles_: you're welcome! though most of the work was already done by you, clayg and Pavel. good progress and lots of helpful discussions in that review | 12:33 |
| cschwede | so kudos for fixing all of that! | 12:34 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/swift master: Better optimistic lock in get_hashes https://review.openstack.org/419787 | 12:35 |
| cschwede | acoles_, clayg: Yay \o/ ^^ | 12:36 |
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| acoles_ | cschwede: Pavel is the mastermind :) | 12:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Kota Tsuyuzaki proposed openstack/swift master: WIP: trying to understand global-ec https://review.openstack.org/427994 | 12:55 |
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| jrichli | clayg: Oh, i see. So it's all about needing the updated time, regardless. Thank you for the explanation and visual. | 14:06 |
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| clayg | good morning | 15:42 |
| clayg | kota_: thanks for everything! I'm going to keep working on global-ec - mainly docs | 15:44 |
| clayg | jrichli: we had so many diagrams like that back and forth between Pavel & acoles :) | 15:45 |
| clayg | cschwede: YOU DID IT! | 15:45 |
| clayg | all praise to Pavel! | 15:46 |
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| tdasilva | timburke and others, what's your opinion on adding a dependency on iso8601 for patch 423377 ? | 16:30 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/423377/ - python-swiftclient - ISO 8601 timestamps for tempurl | 16:30 |
| notmyname | good morning | 16:33 |
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| caiobrentano | 'morning! | 16:51 |
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| clayg | tdasilva: how much effort is it to write what we need ourselves - how likely is that code to change/require-maintaince over the next five years vs. how well is the project maintained - how many open issues - open changes? | 17:01 |
| clayg | looks like about 200 lines of code - with an annoying multi line regex - i see some openstack people in the commit history ~1yr ago (probably py3) - ~12 commits a year and slowing down - migrated from google-code to bitbucket - author has issues open ~4yrs | 17:05 |
| clayg | I'd say it's probably not the best library - but I like that it's small - but perhaps non-trivial enough we're not going to discover some hugely simpler way to do it ourselves? | 17:06 |
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| clayg | do we *have* to use iso timestamps - what about supporting some other standard that python stdlib can already parse? Don't we have other examples of turning formated data strings into timestamps? Maybe in container listings - form post - the reconciler - I'm sure stftime has *something* that can readily support a human readable datetime to timestamp | 17:07 |
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| notmyname | I thought at one time we'd inlined/vendored some iso8601 library | 17:25 |
| notmyname | but I don't see it now, so I don't know | 17:25 |
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| d34dh0r53 | nadeem: I'll ping you when the environment is up, will take ~3 hours | 17:40 |
| nadeem | ok | 17:41 |
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| timburke | kota_: no worries there -- i'd put off dealing with it for so long, what difference does an extra week or two make? sorry that i've not revisited ec duplication properly yet :-( | 17:43 |
| notmyname | is there a specific metric that can be used to measure/detect hub starvation, or is it only a symptomatic thing (+ experience)? | 17:43 |
| timburke | tdasilva: i'm partial toward requiring that the user be fairly exact -- who are we to decide whether they meant at the very start of the day or the very end? it gets worse as we look at larger and larger time deltas -- if we support 2017-02 is it already expired, or will it expire in a few weeks? | 17:46 |
| timburke | plus, if we're strict in what we allow now, we can always loosen it later, as people actually request that it be loosened | 17:47 |
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| timburke | on the whole, though, i'm not in a big rush to land that -- the majority of clouds won't accept such a url parameter. if we still haven't landed it in six months, *then* i'll get antsy | 17:48 |
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| caiobrentano | hi all... Why python-swiftclient always do a "PUT container" in the upload command (swift upload container object). Is it cheaper than a head method? | 18:15 |
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| timburke | caiobrentano: it's about the same. the real trick is that it avoids HEAD-then-PUT. i might be talked into just skipping it all together, but that gets messier with large objects... | 18:17 |
| clayg | let's do this | 18:19 |
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| clayg | notmyname: there's an eventlet debug option that will like raise exceptions if the hub doesn't run every so often | 18:22 |
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| clayg | notmyname: it doesn't do a good job of showing the death by a thousand papercuts problem - but it can definately prove to you something is a miss | 18:23 |
| caiobrentano | timburke got it. I was checking some logs, and found *A LOT* of "PUT container" requests from a client. that's why I was wondering if a HEAD req wouldn't be better | 18:23 |
| clayg | notmyname: http://eventlet.net/doc/modules/debug.html#eventlet.debug.hub_blocking_detection | 18:23 |
| caiobrentano | timburke thanks, btw! :) | 18:23 |
| timburke | caiobrentano: i *certainly* wouldn't be opposed to some --skip-container-put option or something for when you *know* you've already got the container. whether we can ever make it the default behavior is tricky, though, as we don't want to break existing workflows | 18:24 |
| clayg | timburke: I recently found email.utils.parsedate and with patch 331369 it works better than it ever has before! | 18:25 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/331369/ - swift - Always set swift processes to use UTC | 18:25 |
| clayg | sorry ^ tdasilva RE isoutils | 18:25 |
| caiobrentano | timburke sure! an option would be better, in this case! thanks! | 18:29 |
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| tdasilva | clayg, timburke: hi, i'm back, reading scrollback now | 19:07 |
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| tdasilva | timburke: yeah, I can see the argument of starting with a more strict version of what's supported for dates (which would not require any new dependency) and then opening up more as the need arises | 19:14 |
| tdasilva | clayg: if we support just a couple of date formats then it is no trouble at all, I think we just need to document well enough so that users know what is supported and what not | 19:15 |
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| tdasilva | I think I was more concerned to the fact that the patch said it supported iso8601 (at that could means a lot of different formats), so we just need to explicitly say what's expected ??? | 19:17 |
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| timburke | tdasilva: yeah, i'm all for being explicit about what we accept. and i'm not *opposed* to the dependency -- we already pick it up by way of keystoneauth if you want anything besides v1 auth, and i really want to make that a harder dep (just haven't found the time to move everything over to Sessions) | 19:40 |
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| timburke | i think we just want to say, we support *this specific subset* of ISO 8601 | 19:40 |
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| tdasilva | timburke: sounds good to me | 19:44 |
| openstackgerrit | Tim Burke proposed openstack/swift master: Add Timeouts to spawn()s in replicator/reconstructor https://review.openstack.org/429015 | 19:51 |
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| timburke | clayg: ^^ follow-up on those thoughts about the lockup_timeout | 19:53 |
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| clayg | heyoh | 20:07 |
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| clayg | timburke: I know it's only a silly simulation - but he helped a little bit to confirm my intution - i updated the gist with the punchline (some workloads can take longer depending on the resource constraints if you front-load instead of interleave jobs which bottle-neck on different fixed limits) https://gist.github.com/clayg/7618571f4055dbc008f5b1323cfdcff2 | 20:41 |
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| clayg | tdasilva: wait... patch 422679 already landed - don't we already support iso timestamp parsing!? | 21:39 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/422679/ - swift - ISO 8601 timestamps for tempurl (MERGED) | 21:39 |
| tdasilva | clayg: sorry, that discussion was for swift client | 21:39 |
| tdasilva | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/423377/ | 21:39 |
| patchbot | patch 423377 - python-swiftclient - ISO 8601 timestamps for tempurl | 21:39 |
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| clayg | wahcphapcha!? why do we need new depends for the client and not the server (!?) weird | 21:50 |
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| clayg | EXPIRES_ISO8601_FORMAT = '%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ' <- that's what I'm talking about! | 21:51 |
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| timburke | clayg: server *is* strict. client (maybe?) wants to be able to accept inputs like 2017-02-03, or even just 20170203 | 21:52 |
| timburke | i'm skeptical -- seems like the ambiguity will necessarily lead to confusion | 21:52 |
| clayg | timburke: unix timestamp or go home! | 21:53 |
| timburke | then why'd we do this in the first place?? no, this definitely seems like a good thing; we just need reasonable constraints on what's accepted | 21:54 |
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| clayg | martin thought it was a good thing - I think if you're too user friendly eventually lots of people will end up using it - where it the hipser elitism in that!? Swift is *so* mainstream. | 21:56 |
| tdasilva | timburke: "clayg> timburke: unix timestamp or go home!" << I can never tell if he is being sarcastic or not ;) | 21:57 |
| tdasilva | timburke: you can probably tell better than me | 21:58 |
| timburke | tdasilva: some days, i'm not so sure... | 21:58 |
| tdasilva | rofl | 21:58 |
| notmyname | http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/i-work-from-home | 21:59 |
| tdasilva | hehehe, the guy has a window, i'm in the basement! | 22:03 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: it's ok. we'll get through this. do you see some stairs? walk up them. slowly. open the door and find some light | 22:04 |
| tdasilva | hahaha | 22:04 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: meanwhile mattoliverau is thinking, "what? I don't understand. I'm sitting here on the beach" | 22:05 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: that's mattoliverau: http://il6.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/2153156/thumb/1.jpg | 22:07 |
| openstackgerrit | Tim Burke proposed openstack/swift master: Add Timeouts to spawn()s in replicator/reconstructor https://review.openstack.org/429015 | 22:08 |
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| tdasilva | ok, gotta run, have a good weekend everyone | 22:20 |
| tdasilva | #onemore #gopats ;) | 22:20 |
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| timburke | no, tdasilva! you were supposed to go +2 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/337297/ ! | 22:23 |
| patchbot | patch 337297 - swift - Add support to increase object ring partition power | 22:23 |
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