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| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/python-swiftclient: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/89250 | 00:32 |
|---|---|---|
| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/swift: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/88736 | 00:32 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tim Burke proposed openstack/swift: Fix when we set state in Spliterator https://review.openstack.org/372815 | 00:38 |
| notmyname | hello, world | 00:45 |
| notmyname | time to catch up on the day in IRC | 00:45 |
| notmyname | ping zigo onovy | 00:46 |
| notmyname | I saw a meeting log in IRC scollback where you were talking about the newton release of swift. I just want to make sure you know that we havne't done the swift release for newton yet | 00:47 |
| notmyname | should be tagged this week | 00:47 |
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| oxinabox | timburke: I am interest in a work around for https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-swiftclient/+bug/1621562 Like so keen. Downspeed being 1/32th of upspeed (which means 1/64th of Local disk speed) is killing me. | 00:52 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1621562 in python-swiftclient "Download large objects concurrently" [Wishlist,Confirmed] | 00:52 |
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| notmyname | oxinabox: yay! | 00:52 |
| notmyname | (for you wanting to work on it) | 00:52 |
| oxinabox | I have my hands full working on a Julia swiftclient. | 00:53 |
| notmyname | all of the Julia swiftclient implementations are indexed by the Mandelbrot swiftclient | 00:53 |
| notmyname | that's a terrible joke. at every level you look at it | 00:54 |
| oxinabox | and maintaining my other packages and doing my actual job (and patching packages i need for my job... which I guess swift is... but it doesn't directly translate to outcomes.) | 00:54 |
| oxinabox | Hahah, I enjoyed that | 00:55 |
| oxinabox | on indexing (because paths are just indexes) I have a cunning scheme to allow you (me) to use a kind of "SwiftPath" (consisting of Server/Authdetails + Constainer + ObjectName) to be treated just like a Filesystem path, so that things that work from local disk, just work with Swift. | 01:04 |
| oxinabox | using Julia's has multiple dispatch on `readdir` and on `open` | 01:05 |
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| kota_ | good morning | 01:11 |
| zhengyin | good morning | 01:11 |
| zhengyin | kota_, mattoliverau:morning | 01:12 |
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| kota_ | zhengyin: o/ | 01:12 |
| mattoliverau | kota_, zhengyin: morning | 01:12 |
| notmyname | done with emails | 01:14 |
| kota_ | matolivearu: o/ | 01:15 |
| notmyname | look at that. I'm 13 commits behind master. let's see what landed... | 01:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Thiago da Silva proposed openstack/swift: add policy info to swift-get-nodes https://review.openstack.org/372716 | 01:20 |
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| notmyname | kota_: mattoliverau: can one of you look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372573/ today, please? | 01:50 |
| patchbot | patch 372573 - swift - Update authtoken domain options | 01:50 |
| notmyname | hosanai: or maybe you ^ ;-) | 01:50 |
| kota_ | notmyname: sure | 01:50 |
| notmyname | kota_: thanks | 01:50 |
| notmyname | kota_: have you ever looked at any optical drive storage for swift or otherwise? | 01:51 |
| kota_ | notmyname: like blu-ray? | 01:51 |
| notmyname | yeah | 01:51 |
| kota_ | notmyname: not directly, but I heared a Japanese company was working on that. | 01:52 |
| zaitcev | wait a moment | 01:52 |
| notmyname | kota_: Panasonic? | 01:52 |
| kota_ | notmyname: that is | 01:52 |
| zaitcev | if someone installed with project_domain_id=something, then our new release will break upon that, right? | 01:53 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: that is a great question (that I don't know the answer to) | 01:53 |
| zaitcev | And patch 372573 merely documents the change | 01:53 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372573/ - swift - Update authtoken domain options | 01:53 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: you mean if that patch lands? or as it is on master now? | 01:53 |
| zaitcev | Hmm, this middleware comes from keystonemiddleware, so maybe it's okay to use the ID, it just has to be UUID. | 01:54 |
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| notmyname | kota_: http://d.not.mn/optical_storage_disk.jpg Panasonic says they have swift running on top of their fancy optical drive robot racks. and they want to get involved in the community. might make it to barcelona | 01:59 |
| kota_ | notmyname: cool, I've been wondering why they are into community but that'll happen :D | 02:00 |
| notmyname | I hope so | 02:01 |
| notmyname | I think the social/community aspect is the hardest. even moreso that figuring out how to offer optical storage in an open source project when testing it requires $$$$ of gear | 02:01 |
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| notmyname | here's a pic of the drives http://d.not.mn/optical_storage_drives.jpg | 02:02 |
| notmyname | so they have a whole rack of disks. and the disk robot takes a cartridge of 12 disks, puts it into one of the drives, and tada. time-to-first-byte is a minute or more, but it's really cheap | 02:03 |
| kota_ | notmyname: probably that one is almost same I saw before. | 02:03 |
| kota_ | notmyname: the 12 disks was written like as raid 0 thing, right? | 02:03 |
| notmyname | I saw a presentation they did with facebook today | 02:03 |
| kota_ | s/was/are/ | 02:04 |
| notmyname | hmm...yeah. some sort of striping across a bunch of disks | 02:04 |
| kota_ | notmyname: is that in your office? under testing in swiftstack? | 02:05 |
| notmyname | I wonder if they modified the ring or not | 02:05 |
| notmyname | kota_: no. sadly. I don't have the space or power for that | 02:05 |
| kota_ | notmyname: good point, and i also have the question indeed ;-) | 02:05 |
| notmyname | kota_: I'm in washington DC at a storage conference right now | 02:05 |
| mattoliverau | maybe we should connect them with the BDT and IBM guys who want to work on high latency media | 02:05 |
| kota_ | notmyname: exactly, they might collaborate with it. | 02:06 |
| notmyname | today I got to hear about storage using synthetic DNA (writing = creating DNA, reading = sequencing DNA). crazy stuff, but you can get to about 1EB/in^3 | 02:07 |
| kota_ | notmyname: sounds crazy | 02:07 |
| notmyname | also about storing data in highly stable glass using femtosecond pulses of lasers. it's supposed to be stable for 100M years | 02:07 |
| notmyname | yes. all very crazy stuff;-) | 02:07 |
| * kota_ is wondering how many years we want to save our data actually | 02:09 | |
| notmyname | 100000001 years. so we'll have to find something better than the optically-etched quartz ;-) | 02:10 |
| notmyname | there was a *fascinating* analysis of the storage market and the growth of it, pulling from number of bytes shipped across all media and the historic changes of them and associated revenues. (spoiler: HDD is done and NAND is the future) | 02:11 |
| kota_ | notmyname: backt to panasonic blu-ray, if something i can help exists (in particluar, the developers of Panasonic might be in Japan), please let me know anytime. | 02:12 |
| notmyname | kota_: thank you | 02:13 |
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| notmyname | getting late here. time to sign off for the evening | 02:19 |
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| mattoliverau | notmyname: o/ | 02:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Charles Hsu proposed openstack/python-swiftclient: [WIP] Add additional headers for HEAD/GET/DELETE requests. https://review.openstack.org/372656 | 06:22 |
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| winggundamth_ | hi. anyone experienced deleting a million object in container before? I'm trying to do swift delete container_name right now but it's just stuck there and for few mins it will show Account POST failed: http://192.168.8.8:8080/v1/AUTH_5?bulk-delete 504 Gateway Time-out | 06:48 |
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| winggundamth_ | but actually now I couldn't even delete a single object since I use swift-bench to push few milion files into Swift. | 06:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alistair Coles proposed openstack/swift: api-ref: fix some header definitions https://review.openstack.org/366232 | 07:24 |
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| kota_ | hmm... a typhoon seems to strike to Japan again :/ | 07:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Charles Hsu proposed openstack/python-swiftclient: Add additional headers for HEAD/GET/DELETE requests. https://review.openstack.org/372656 | 07:51 |
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| acoles | kota_: I'm pretty confused by keystone default domains :( | 08:06 |
| acoles | different docs saying different things :/ | 08:07 |
| kota_ | acoles: yeah, right now, I'm not strongly opposite to merge the change for the docs, but not sure because, you know, "different docs saying different things :/" | 08:08 |
| * kota_ is wondering they could be resolved evneturally. | 08:09 | |
| acoles | kota_: the important addition to our docs is IMO to state that the authotoken credentials must match whatever you used to setup the swift service user in keystone. Problem is there are different examples of how to do that so which example do we pick? | 08:09 |
| kota_ | acoles: indeed | 08:11 |
| acoles | kota_: problem I see is if you created your swift service user under say kilo or liberty, in domain with -d=default, then use user_domain_name=default in proxy-server.conf according to my patch, it won;t work | 08:11 |
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| kota_ | yes, if you setup keystone with project_domain_id, you should set the setting in the proxy-server.conf and if you setup with project_domain_name...<snip> :/ | 08:12 |
| acoles | from time to time I tell notmyname we should not be showing sample options for authtoken since we do not maintain them, and he correctly tells me I am wrong :) | 08:12 |
| kota_ | i think, example conf is just an example :P | 08:13 |
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| acoles | kota_: so could we add some text saying "this is just an example and it is probably wrong" :P | 08:14 |
| acoles | notmyname: "we should not be showing sample options for authtoken since we do not maintain them". there, got it off my chest. | 08:14 |
| * acoles will wait approx 5 hours to be corrected. | 08:15 | |
| kota_ | acoles: if it's ok, I like that idea ;-) | 08:15 |
| acoles | kota_: JK. I think I should add some more text to my patch to make it clear that the user needs to *think* about what options they use rather than just copy the example. | 08:18 |
| acoles | kota_: and add a link to authtoken docs if i can find one that is consistent | 08:19 |
| * kota_ is iteresting we can use JK also for English people with similar meaning but the JK I know is a shorter expression of Japanese word though so that other lanuage to same meaning via shorter expression. | 08:20 | |
| kota_ | sounds reasonable | 08:21 |
| kota_ | acoles: ^^ | 08:21 |
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| acoles | kota_: (if you are still there) we have noticed that in some cases (depends on keystone backend), keystone domain names are case insensitive, so after running 'keystone_manage db_sync' there is a domain with {id:default, name:Default} and then following the install guide to create a domain with name default fails :/ | 08:46 |
| acoles | i.e. step 1 here http://docs.openstack.org/mitaka/install-guide-ubuntu/keystone-users.html | 08:46 |
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| kota_ | acoles: oh god... | 08:48 |
| acoles | so the install guides seem to be both confusing and possibly broken. IDK. | 08:48 |
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| * kota_ is off heading for home | 09:06 | |
| acoles | kota_: good night | 09:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alistair Coles proposed openstack/swift: Update authtoken domain options https://review.openstack.org/372573 | 09:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/swift: Clean up api-ref examples https://review.openstack.org/371840 | 09:45 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alistair Coles proposed openstack/swift: Add test that authorize callback cannot violate constraints https://review.openstack.org/349501 | 11:34 |
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| zigo | notmyname: Hello! | 12:42 |
| zigo | notmyname: It's not done yet, no. | 12:43 |
| zigo | notmyname: But we will push the packages in the OpenStack infra (we bulid all of OpenStack Debian packages there these days). | 12:43 |
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| zigo | notmyname: We need the latest release of Swift ASAP in infra, even if it's not Newton, because it's needed for tempest tests. | 12:43 |
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| tdasilva | acoles: hello, good morning! | 13:08 |
| tdasilva | acoles: I was just checking out patch 366232 and it seems like you reverted back the change to "Distinguish between request and response definitions for X-Account-Meta-Temp-URL-Key* headers" | 13:08 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366232/ - swift - api-ref: fix some header definitions | 13:08 |
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| acoles | tdasilva: argh! sorry, I had the wrong branch locally. will fix | 13:28 |
| tdasilva | acoles: just wanted to double check if that was on purpose or not | 13:28 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alistair Coles proposed openstack/swift: api-ref: fix some header definitions https://review.openstack.org/366232 | 13:30 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: OpenStack Infra now has a Twitter bot, follow it at https://twitter.com/openstackinfra | 13:44 | |
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| Renich | good day, amigos! ;) | 14:47 |
| Renich | I was wondering, once I source adminrc, why isn't it possible to openstack --os-project-name=someotherproject container list? | 14:47 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/swift: Fixed cut and pasted paragraph from commit message in manpage https://review.openstack.org/371932 | 14:58 |
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| timburke | notmyname: on open sourcing a project when testing requires gear, that sounds similar to the issues cinder has had with its drivers; i wonder if they'd have some insight into how to approach it | 17:01 |
| timburke | acoles: you're not alone in being confused. looks like glance is backing out some domain_id/domain_name change in their swift driver? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/373438/ | 17:02 |
| patchbot | patch 373438 - glance_store - Revert "Setup defaults for swift driver authentica... | 17:02 |
| tuan_luong | Hello swift team | 17:03 |
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| acoles | timburke: its a mess :/ having chatted to Guang we're tending to think the install guide is wrong, or misguided. So I am considering reverting the change to the options and having my patch just increase the comment to raise attention to the need for consistency. what do you think? | 17:31 |
| timburke | acoles: works for me. it definitely seems like one of those sections of the config where you *need* to think about the options, what they mean, and what you need to do | 17:32 |
| timburke | most of the rest, we'll try to do The Right Thing for you, but we really can't for your auth system | 17:33 |
| acoles | timburke: right | 17:33 |
| acoles | timburke: kota_ I'm marking patch 372573 WIP, will come up with some revised comment text in next version | 17:37 |
| patchbot | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372573/ - swift - Update authtoken domain options | 17:37 |
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| tqtran | hi timburke, regarding your comments yesterady in IRC, what can you /info on? is that the same as listing the stats via swift client? | 18:20 |
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| timburke | tqtran: it's the equivalent of `swift capabilities` or `swift info` | 18:22 |
| tqtran | ah ok | 18:22 |
| timburke | or if you like curl, `curl http://saio:8080/info` | 18:22 |
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| tqtran | timburke: hm... i not seeing the problem you're seeing on my env. checked both the account server and proxy server. how did you get that error to pop up? | 18:29 |
| tqtran | i used the swift client to log in via v3, then swift info and no error for me | 18:30 |
| timburke | tqtran: i didn't actually reproduce it; i was going off of the logs from tempest. check the end of http://logs.openstack.org/15/356715/9/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-full-ubuntu-xenial/da34796/logs/screen-s-proxy.txt.gz for the traceback | 18:34 |
| timburke | it might require that you send an x-auth-token header as part of the request (i forget whether swiftclient does that or not) | 18:35 |
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| nickchase | Hi, all. Can anyone tell me where to find the release notes that show what's new in Swift for the Newton release? | 18:37 |
| nickchase | Alternately, can someone just tell me what the top 3 or 4 changes are? | 18:37 |
| nickchase | Thanks... | 18:37 |
| tqtran | oooooo i see. ok i'll try and find out what else tempest did before calling it. thanks for the pointer. i was digging through the wrong logs | 18:37 |
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| jrichli | nickchase: the release hasn't been cut yet. Maybe end of this week. Release notes will be available at that point. | 18:38 |
| nickchase | jrichli: Thanks. Is there a draft or something? I'm trying to put together some content for next Tuesday. | 18:40 |
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| jrichli | nickchase: there have been 2 swift releases so far after mitaka: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/version_map | 18:42 |
| nickchase | jrichli: Thanks! | 18:43 |
| jrichli | nickchase: so, you could look at the release notes for 2.8.0 and 2.9.0 to start with. Not sure if there is a rough draft for this next release | 18:43 |
| nickchase | jrichli: That'll get me started. Much obliged! | 18:44 |
| jrichli | np | 18:44 |
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| timburke | nickchase: like jrichli said, there's going to be one more release, but https://github.com/openstack/swift/blob/master/CHANGELOG is a good place to watch. highlights for 2.10.0 will probably include EC improvements, container-sync improvements, and a new way to use versioned_writes | 18:47 |
| nickchase | timburke: Excellent. Thanks! | 18:48 |
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| clayg | tdasilva: you're like a beast on these bugs man! that's *so* awesome! | 19:07 |
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| tdasilva | clayg: lol | 19:07 |
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| tdasilva | clayg: hopefully i'm not making mistakes, but i'm being pretty aggressive in closing old stuff that I think it is invalid now | 19:08 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/swift: go: fix replicator policy bugs / big refactor https://review.openstack.org/365849 | 19:08 |
| clayg | tdasilva: do it do it! | 19:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thai Tran proposed openstack/swift: Supporting Account ACL in keystoneauth https://review.openstack.org/356715 | 20:44 |
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| tdasilva | clayg, notmyname: check out https://github.com/thiagodasilva/launchpad-reporting | 20:50 |
| tdasilva | clayg: I just forked of a fuel project and changed it to display swift data | 20:50 |
| tdasilva | has a cool trends graph | 20:51 |
| clayg | tdasilva: i don't see where in https://github.com/thiagodasilva/launchpad-reporting/commit/4678ad8836220ac14da05aed5b8dfd2d474733fb that you changed the data source? flask.url_for Swift just looks like a redirect? | 20:58 |
| clayg | oh... to the project_overview view which calls the lpdata.get_project k | 20:58 |
| tdasilva | clayg, project name is hard coded here: https://github.com/thiagodasilva/launchpad-reporting/blob/master/main.py#L47 | 20:59 |
| clayg | yeah I thought that was just the "name" tho - i see now that it uses the name in the other view when it pulls the data | 20:59 |
| clayg | so many 4's! | 21:00 |
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| clayg | tdasilva: you know instead of that ttl_cache decorator - I think i'd just prefer it be a script you can run on demand in the background to update the cached data - and the app always responds from the local cache | 21:14 |
| clayg | then I can run it in a cron every 5 mins if I want too | 21:15 |
| clayg | lptdata seems like a cool lib regardless - some programatic access to launchpad is no doubt helpful | 21:18 |
| clayg | d3 has proven to be a good way to translate json into visualization - definately support that | 21:19 |
| openstackgerrit | Tim Burke proposed openstack/swift: Use separate headers for versioned_writes' stack and history modes https://review.openstack.org/373537 | 21:29 |
| timburke | clayg: tdasilva: ^^^ | 21:29 |
| timburke | if we get it in before the release, we don't need x-versions-mode as a client-accessible header | 21:29 |
| timburke | still needs doc changes, and test coverage for the you-tried-to-set-both-at-once 400 | 21:30 |
| timburke | clayg: tdasilva: so i guess my question is, is this something that you guys care about enough that we can get it reviewed ahead of the release? if so, there's one less thing that needs a deprecation cycle and we'll have already kicked off the deprecation cycle for x-versions-location, but if not, i might need to work on other things ahead of the docs/test coverage | 21:37 |
| timburke | it could also roll in kota's https://review.openstack.org/#/c/360933/ | 21:38 |
| patchbot | patch 360933 - swift - Add functional tests for new versioned_write mode | 21:38 |
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| clayg | whoa - lots of good stuff | 21:51 |
| clayg | it's not a super small change - looks like you already started on some of the doc change? | 21:52 |
| timburke | clayg: yeah, the mware docs. needs the api-ref docs | 21:53 |
| clayg | oic | 21:53 |
| timburke | and doc/source/api/object_versioning.rst | 21:55 |
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| mattoliverau | Morning | 22:45 |
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| timburke | hey, mattoliverau! i need your opinion. well, i need *an* opinion, and clayg volunteered you | 23:19 |
| mattoliverau | yay, i have lots of opinions, hopefully one of them would be helpful :P | 23:20 |
| timburke | on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/373537 we're trying to decide whether x-versions-location should live forever or die in a fire. thoughts? | 23:20 |
| patchbot | patch 373537 - swift - Use separate headers for versioned_writes' stack a... | 23:20 |
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| mattoliverau | timburke: I love the new names, X-History-Container and X-Stack-Container sounds cool, and is a nice way of choosen the behaviour you want. If deprication was easy I'd say burn it, but I think we'll be stuck with versions-location for the foreseeable future. damn API.. which is a shame because it sucks to have 2 versions of the same thing. I guess we could think of X-Versions-Location as an alias to X-Stack-Container. | 23:32 |
| mattoliverau | 23:32 | |
| mattoliverau | timburke: we could let add a deprication warning in documentation to X-Versions-Location.. and maybe eventually we'll be able to remove it... but just keep it around for now. In fact if we start to remove examples using X-Versions-Location, in a few releases we might actually be able to remove it. | 23:33 |
| mattoliverau | but thats my pre-caffiniated opinion. tldr: dont break API so we're suck with it for now... but we can just make X-Versions-Location an alias to X-Stack-Container. Change any examples we have (if we have any) to use the new way. And oneday future us will be able to depricate it. Or maybe we can get buy in from the Ops in Barcelona | 23:38 |
| timburke | mattoliverau: that was kinda my thinking, too, and what i meant by "die in a fire." the other option would be to just keep x-versions-location (since we'd have to do that anyway for ... a year or two? the foreseeable future?) in place of x-stack-container, but still use x-history-container for the new way versioning works | 23:39 |
| timburke | i was already planning on gutting x-versions-location from the docs and replacing with the new thing. but as long as there may be some app that someone wrote years ago but hasn't seen active development but Just Works™... clayg seems a bit hesitant to try for deprecation | 23:41 |
| mattoliverau | nah, burn it, kill it with fire (meaning, have both and lets start using the new terms in here also, and mention versions-location still exists but is really now just an alias to stack) :) | 23:42 |
| timburke | (honestly, i know that feeling. that's part of why i did that patch the way i did originally) | 23:42 |
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| mattoliverau | I think marking for deprication and depricating are 2 different things. I think we can let people know this is the old way, and my one day be gone (but we'll be loud when/if we do). It'll mean anyone writing new apps will use the new way | 23:44 |
| mattoliverau | even if we never actually get rid of it. | 23:44 |
| clayg | +1 ^ if we think the consistency is worth maintaining two ways to do it that's fine by me | 23:45 |
| timburke | but we could still have some consistency while only having one way to say it. x-versions-location (since we're stuck with it now) and x-history-location wouldn't *terrible*, just not quite as explicit as x-stack-container/x-history-container | 23:49 |
| clayg | timburke: not un-reasonable | 23:49 |
| timburke | clayg: but it also sets us down the path of "yep, that shit is *never* going away" | 23:51 |
| timburke | have we ever successfully deprecated & removed some part of the client-facing API? | 23:52 |
| clayg | timburke: x-timestamp - YOU MAD MAN! | 23:53 |
| clayg | and look - the world didn't burn down around us? | 23:53 |
| clayg | althought that one was a) terrible b) not documented | 23:53 |
| clayg | not sure if either of those help | 23:53 |
| mattoliverau | Yeah version and history is not explicit enough imho, there could be an agruement for X-{Versions,Stack,Hisroy}-Location, so they all seem to match a similar API.. though I like how Container lets people know to specify a container here. | 23:54 |
| clayg | I think something about container tempurls or cross container something dlo manifest got similar treatment? | 23:54 |
| clayg | because "secruity" | 23:54 |
| clayg | yeah stack history are pretty good - might paint us into a corner if we ever manage to get a type of versioning in place that's based off symlinks? | 23:55 |
| timburke | oh, that wasn't a deprecation. that was *definitely* a rip-out, because it could leave you in a situation where you couldn't delete data. short of those "because security" sorts of things, i don't know that we have | 23:55 |
| clayg | x-symlink-container doesn't quite cut it | 23:55 |
| timburke | nah, the symlink-y goodness should be a proxy-config setting. i've got a plan | 23:56 |
| clayg | timburke: one time when implementing swiftstack-auth - we were like 'fucking x-storage-token *sure* is stupid - it only existed because before openstack - let's not support it!' | 23:56 |
| clayg | guess what happened | 23:56 |
| timburke | broke the world? | 23:56 |
| timburke | by which i mean "a customer" | 23:57 |
| clayg | timburke: no it broke like one d00d and we added support because it's cheap - CARRY THE CRUFT 4EVAR! | 23:57 |
| * clayg puts on skeptical pants regarding x-history-container implementation via symlinks being transparent to the user | 23:58 | |
| mattoliverau | clayg: we should get that on a tshirt :P | 23:58 |
| clayg | mattoliverau: this is me https://brendanbourdage.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/skeptical-dog.jpg | 23:59 |
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