Tuesday, 2017-07-04

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openstackgerritJeremy Liu proposed openstack/python-openstackclient master: Add missing barbican commands  https://review.openstack.org/48000402:29
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flanders_Test 1207:39
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flanders_Gildub, Giles I presume?07:56
flanders_seanhandley_: Hola o/07:56
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seanhandley_Morning Flanders o/08:23
seanhandley_Or, rather, evening08:26
seanhandley_Sorry for the 4th July scheduling btw - my bad08:28
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flanders_Lolz, no better way to celebrate 'freedom' than taking about open source stuff! ;)08:30
seanhandley_Well that's true08:32
seanhandley_Oddly I'm scheduled for a 4th July Bourbon tweet-tasting this evening courtesy of Heaven Hill08:33
seanhandley_Hopefully I'll get a catch-up chat with Monty this week08:33
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carthacaHi ;)08:51
carthacayou sent a lot of homework, flanders ^^08:51
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seanhandleyhey carthaca08:58
seanhandleyYeah, flanders_ is always making me do work :D08:58
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seanhandleyAre you around Gilles?08:59
seanhandleyLet's wait a few more minutes, hopefully he appears :)09:01
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carthacawere the hangouts details in the invitation added accidentally?09:05
seanhandleyIt's possible yes09:05
seanhandleyGoogle Calendar is annoying for that09:05
seanhandleyI just got a calendar invite decline from him09:06
seanhandleyGuess he can't make it :(09:06
* seanhandley pings flanders_09:07
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carthacawhat a pity09:07
seanhandleyThat's the joy of online meetings I suppose!09:08
seanhandleyThanks for coming anyhow carthaca09:08
seanhandleyCan we kick off by talking a little about Misty?09:08
seanhandleyI see you on the contributors but I'm not sure of how the project started09:08
carthacaYes, let's start with that09:09
carthacaGilles is the one, who started it09:09
carthacaHe mentioned it in of the Mails that Flanders distributed, that's how I found it09:10
carthacaAnd I was immediately in love :D09:10
seanhandleyThe README sounds very promising09:10
carthacaIt provides, what we were missing from fog09:11
seanhandleyI've been involved with Fog for a number of years now, and it's been the most mature OpenStack SDK in Ruby for a long time09:11
carthacayou only have to authenticate once and can talk to all services09:11
seanhandleyok - so is it fully compatible with all APIs?09:11
carthacaso this means less calls to keystone, more performance09:11
carthacaand API adoption is much faster, because it is much more lightweight09:12
seanhandleyYeah, the auth stuff in openstack-fog sucks :)09:12
carthacacompatability looks really good, though I didn't make it to the nasty stuff, yet09:13
seanhandleyI'm happy to get involved and to champion misty as the Ruby SDK of choice for OpenStack in the long term so long as we're not losing out. The advantages of Fog is that it has momentum, community, and support for a lot of APIs.09:14
seanhandleyI think it'd be useful to get a to-do list in the form of Github issues or something09:14
seanhandleythen we can see where the gaps are and start filling them :)09:15
seanhandleyDid you get a chance to read the service endpoint spec that Flanders linked?09:15
carthacayes, sounds reasonable09:16
carthacavalid service types have to be defined somewhere09:16
seanhandleyYes - Monty proposes we have a json file on openstack.org09:17
seanhandleywhich can be cached09:17
flanders_I'm here! Having dinner09:19
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carthacaso we at SAP already decided to move away from fog to misty, basically we are the 4 other contributors you see in misty09:19
seanhandleyAha I see09:20
carthacawhat fog offers, that we don't need is the models - do you know how widely the other consumers of fog consume the models?09:21
seanhandleyCan you describe the problems with Fog as you perceive them at SAP?09:21
seanhandleyheh well I was going to mention the models layer09:21
flanders_Whom rise do we need in the fog community to look at Misty so it can be conjoined with fog?09:22
carthacaon thing I already mentioned, it's the auth - you cannot re-use on fog object, but have to create a new one for every service you talk to09:22
seanhandleyand that causes performance issues carthaca ?09:23
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carthacayes in two ways: 1. fog is always calling keystone to check the token you provided + 2. fog is calling keystone for every service you use again09:25
seanhandleyI ran into a similar issue in the early days of integrating our app using Fog09:25
seanhandleyI used to memoize those Fog objects ^09:25
seanhandleyso in theory the auth wouldn't happen multiple times09:26
seanhandleybut in practice I found the Fog re-auth code was buggy once the token had expired :(09:26
carthacayes we initially did the same and stumbled over weird re-auth issues :(09:27
carthacathat directly leads me to another issue we see: fog is doing its own error-handling and sometimes swallows errors, that we would like to bubble up properly instead09:27
flanders_Does Monty's service discovery support re Keystone auth address this?09:27
seanhandleyI think it's a separate issue flanders_09:28
seanhandleyultimately the problem was bad design in the fog-openstack code09:29
seanhandleySo to give a bit of backstory on how I currently use Fog in my app09:29
carthacareacting to token-expiry got better in fog, but still it is a bit of work you would have to do on top09:30
flanders_Just making sure we shouldn't be highlighting any issues up to the API user team a la Clarke and Rocky.09:30
seanhandleyI find the model layer is useful as it lets me represent OpenStack resources as Ruby objects and so my client code is a lot cleaner09:30
seanhandleythe problem with dealing with JSON directly is you end up wrangling the nested data structure09:30
seanhandleyso it's nice to have a model layer that knows how to parse those structures09:30
seanhandleyThough I guess it'd be possible to use OpenStruct for that?09:31
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carthacawell to the API on expired tokens: I sometimes see an "401 not authorized" and sometimes a "404 token not found" from the services, I would have to look up the details where that comes from, but its inconsistent at least09:32
carthacayes in the end we constructed our own models as well xD, would be easier if we could better extend and re-use the fog ones without monkey patching09:34
seanhandleyWell I think it's a matter of taste to some extent - if the object is simply a data container we can subclass OpenStruct09:35
seanhandleyThe issue I think is when we do mutative calls09:35
seanhandleyFog lets you say things like "server.restart"09:35
seanhandleythe way Misty is architected you'd currently do "cloud.compute.reboot_server_reboot_action uuid" or something similar09:37
seanhandleyI'd love to get Monty involved here because his Shade SDK does a lot of UX niceness for the user regarding the model layer09:38
flanders_+1 @mordred09:39
seanhandleyraw API call wrappers and JSON responses are fast and simple but his vision is for a codebase that has sane defaults and makes client code able to care as little as possible about the details09:39
seanhandleyI think you're onto something with integrating Misty in Fog flanders_09:40
flanders_But needs to incorporate ProgLang paradigms...09:40
carthacathat's right - when I first started using fog I liked a lot how easy it is to use09:40
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seanhandleyif Misty is to be a lightweight SDK that gets you hooked into the API quickly then changing the fog models to refer directly to it as a dep might be the best way forward09:41
flanders_Fog/Misty must be usable to Ruby native Devs, not OpenStack Devs.09:41
seanhandleythen Fog benefits from the improved performance without losing the syntactic niceness of the model layer09:41
seanhandleyindeed flanders_09:41
seanhandleyHi gildub :)09:42
carthacayes, we thought of doing the rework directly in fog, too - but it needs a lot of effort. so we chickened out a bit and moved to the new tiny misty :D09:42
seanhandleyI don't blame you - there's a lot of baggage09:42
seanhandleyAt any rate, I think that model layer of UX niceness can learn a lot from Shade09:43
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seanhandleywherever it ultimately ends up residing09:43
seanhandleycarthaca gildub: Do you think it makes sense to leave the model layer out of Misty as a hard architectural decision?09:45
seanhandleyor could there be a Misty::Model namespace ?09:45
carthacaI'm not sure, do we want to end up with both misty and fog or do we want to rework one of the two to get all benefits?09:47
seanhandleyI think I'd prefer for it all to live in Misty - that way it can be developed in line with Shade and the current community thinking on how best to make an OpenStack SDK from an app dev perspective09:48
seanhandleyit lets us free ourselves of legacy09:48
seanhandleybut the decision, ultimately, is down to you guys - it's your project :)09:48
seanhandleyI'd love to get gildub's input on this too09:49
seanhandleyI'm happy to contribute my time to this btw09:50
carthacaI agree it would make it easier to get rid of the legacy :)09:50
carthacaBut yeah, it's up to gildub. It's his baby09:51
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flanders_Would be great if we could do a big announce re misty+fog integration at Sydney summit?!09:52
flanders_I could wrangle marketing to support, though kowtow to gildub.09:53
seanhandleylooking at the code, it seems pretty mature so far flanders_ - I don't think adding a nice UX model layer on top would be hard, just a little bit of a slog coding wise09:53
seanhandleyultimately I'm happy to create a higher-level Shadesque Ruby SDK that uses Misty under the hood also09:53
flanders_Do we need to get y'all in the same space to hammer out face to face, or what can I help do to make happen?09:54
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seanhandleyFiguring if Gilles is at the PTG (or wants to be) is a good first step I guess. We'll hopefully see when he has some time today09:54
flanders_Decision anon pending input from @mordred @gildub09:55
seanhandleyWell, thanks for your time flanders_ and carthaca :-)09:55
seanhandleyI guess we'll pick this up again soon09:55
carthacaSame to you09:56
seanhandleyflanders_: Do you know if the SDK WG does regular IRC meetings?09:56
flanders_Not yet, but I'm keen to push forward09:57
flanders_Perhaps via PublicCloud-WG?09:58
seanhandleyWell, we do have a meeting at 2pm UTC tomorrow09:58
seanhandleymaybe a bit late for your TZ09:58
seanhandleybut could work ok for mordred09:58
flanders_The chairs might be keen to have useable SDK their customers can use?09:58
seanhandleydefinitely flanders_09:58
seanhandleyI think Gophercloud is a good one to focus on as well - given that Terraform uses it09:59
flanders_+1 re pulling @mordred into publicCloud-WG call!09:59
seanhandleyMike from SuperGiant.io is interested in chatting btw so feel free to ping him an email09:59
flanders_+1 re GopherCloud, chatting with Joe Tpjian next!09:59
seanhandleyI think he's mike [at] supergiant [dot] io10:00
seanhandleycool cool :)10:00
flanders_@seanhandley: thanks re SuperGiant intro!10:00
flanders_Have a good day o/10:00
seanhandleynp - keeping count on those beer IOUs :D10:00
seanhandleyHave a nice eve o/10:00
openstackgerritNidhiMittalHada proposed openstack/python-openstackclient master: image-list should support filters 'name','status'  https://review.openstack.org/47967010:02
carthacaGood bye10:03
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kuzkohey people, i'm currently trying the openstack sdk and got a weird sslv3 issue, can I have someone pointing me in the right direction?10:39
kuzkotrace : https://pastebin.com/4k0tnKX4 .. am I missing libs or something?10:41
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seanhandleykuzko: When you say "SDK" can you be more specific ?10:57
seanhandleyi.e. where did you download it from10:57
seanhandleythat backtrace refers to indus-demo-eric/SDK-Nuabee10:57
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kuzkoyup that's my project path, but it uses openstack libraries10:58
kuzkoinstalled with pip10:58
kuzkohttps://pastebin.com/4teuNX12 that's the way I import those libs, should I use something else?10:59
kuzkoI followed this : https://dev.cloudwatt.com/fr/doc/sdk/sdk-python.html11:01
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kuzkoseanhandley : I don't even know if i'm in the right place to ask shuch question, google is not helpful, requests lib is intalled with [security] ...11:07
flanders_@kuzko: have a look at shade sdk11:24
kuzkook, well, that's another sdk, I get it, but this doesn't really help on that issue, did you guys never had connexion issues?11:29
seanhandleySure kuzko11:34
seanhandleyBut without familiarity of the code in question it's hard for us to help :)11:35
seanhandleyJudging by the cloudwatt link you shared, this code is using the individual openstack client libraries11:36
seanhandleyCan you share your code online somewhere?11:37
seanhandleyand also your connection details for openstack (except for username/password)11:37
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kuzkohang on I'm gonna ask if I can share part of the code, but, yes the code is using the individual client libraries... is ther antoher way? (except for that shade thing ^^)12:10
seanhandleyYeah, I recommend Shade12:17
seanhandleyIt's very nicely designed12:17
seanhandleyif you're doing simple operations then it's perfect (create an instance, give it an IP, destroy it etc)12:19
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mordredmorning seanhandley !13:14
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openstackgerritJavier Peña proposed openstack/python-openstackclient master: Fix man page build  https://review.openstack.org/48021814:54
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openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/cliff master: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/48027717:46
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/python-openstackclient master: Fix man page build  https://review.openstack.org/48021819:28
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