Wednesday, 2018-08-08

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openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/requirements stable/pike: update constraint for instack-undercloud to new release 7.4.14  https://review.openstack.org/58969804:36
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/requirements stable/queens: update constraint for tripleo-common to new release 8.6.4  https://review.openstack.org/58970004:39
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/requirements stable/pike: update constraint for tripleo-common to new release 7.6.15  https://review.openstack.org/58970104:39
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/requirements stable/queens: update constraint for instack-undercloud to new release 8.4.4  https://review.openstack.org/58970705:20
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openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/requirements stable/pike: update constraint for oslo.messaging to new release 5.30.4  https://review.openstack.org/58982310:04
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/requirements stable/queens: update constraint for oslo.policy to new release 1.33.2  https://review.openstack.org/58982710:08
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/requirements stable/pike: update constraint for oslo.policy to new release 1.25.3  https://review.openstack.org/58982810:08
openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/requirements stable/queens: update constraint for oslo.messaging to new release 5.35.1  https://review.openstack.org/58982910:08
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/requirements stable/pike: update constraint for instack-undercloud to new release 7.4.14  https://review.openstack.org/58969810:30
openstackgerritMerged openstack/requirements stable/queens: update constraint for tripleo-common to new release 8.6.4  https://review.openstack.org/58970010:30
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openstackgerritDirk Mueller proposed openstack/requirements master: Remove pydot3  https://review.openstack.org/58990213:40
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/requirements master: update constraint for openstacksdk to new release 0.17.2  https://review.openstack.org/58952615:21
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openstackgerritOpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/requirements master: update constraint for python-senlinclient to new release 1.8.0  https://review.openstack.org/58999318:36
dhellmanno/20:01
dhellmannprometheanfire, tonyb : were we meeting early today?20:02
prometheanfirenot that I know of20:03
prometheanfireif dirk and tonyb are around I'm fine with it though20:03
dhellmannI have a special thing on my calendar because tonyb wanted to talk about something20:03
dhellmannI don't remember what20:03
prometheanfiremain thing I have is https://review.openstack.org/58940520:05
dhellmannI think it had something to do with syncing. I don't see it in the logs from last week  so maybe it came up after we closed the meeting20:06
prometheanfireprobably20:06
prometheanfiredhellmann: reqs syncs are dead for stable branches too right? asking for the review I just linked20:08
dhellmannyes, we turned that off completely20:08
dhellmannon the theory that there wouldn't be any changes in stable branches :-/20:09
prometheanfirewe all know how that works20:09
prometheanfireI'm still not in favor of that review in any case20:09
dhellmannI don't understand why changing the constraint isn't sufficient to get the gate working20:09
prometheanfireconstraints are for gate and for co-installability20:12
prometheanfirerequirements are defining what should work20:12
dhellmannsure20:12
prometheanfireif we know a new min version then changing reqs makes sense20:12
prometheanfireso meh20:12
dhellmannI guess it depends on why the new min is needed, but yeah20:12
prometheanfireyep20:13
prometheanfireI am simply 'supporting' making reqs 'correct'20:13
prometheanfireconstraints (lower and upper) are their own thing20:13
tonybI'm so sorry, we were supposed to meet early and I didn't add it to my calendar :(20:25
* prometheanfire shrugs20:25
prometheanfiredirk smcginnis: around?20:25
tonybI wanted to talk about per-project requirements and what that measn for stable branches ... ahead of the rocky branch20:27
prometheanfiretwo more FFE reqs :|20:27
prometheanfirewell, lets start20:28
prometheanfire#startmeeting requirement20:28
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug  8 20:28:22 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is prometheanfire. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:28
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:28
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'requirement'20:28
prometheanfire#endmeeting20:28
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug  8 20:28:30 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:28
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirement/2018/requirement.2018-08-08-20.28.html20:28
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirement/2018/requirement.2018-08-08-20.28.txt20:28
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirement/2018/requirement.2018-08-08-20.28.log.html20:28
prometheanfire#startmeeting requirements20:28
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug  8 20:28:43 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is prometheanfire. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:28
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:28
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'requirements'20:28
prometheanfire#topic rollcall20:28
prometheanfiretonyb, prometheanfire, number80, dirk, coolsvap, toabctl, smcginnis, dhellmann20:28
tonybo/20:28
prometheanfireo/20:29
dhellmanno/20:29
prometheanfireok, moving on20:30
prometheanfire#topic controversies in the queue?20:30
prometheanfirehttps://review.openstack.org/58940520:30
prometheanfire#link https://review.openstack.org/58940520:30
prometheanfireraising the min, especially on something like this is a pain since the infra sync was stopped for ALL branches20:31
tonybYeah no we can't do that it doesn't make sense, if anythign they'll need to ad a compat shim20:32
prometheanfireI'm not sure if it makes sense anyway20:32
tonybI agree to dhellmann, I doin't get why the u-c bump isn't adeqaute20:32
prometheanfireya20:32
prometheanfirethey did say that they'd stop reqs syncing if they didn't get this in, not that threats will be accepted, just funny20:33
prometheanfireso, just comment in the review20:33
tonybOkay, well It's against our policy and it's one moer example where our policy causes problems, queesn is the last branch where that happens so I guess we'll try to educate and if they still don't like it that can disable the requierments-check job20:35
prometheanfireya20:35
prometheanfireanyone have anything else?20:35
tonybnot for controversies20:36
prometheanfiretonyb: you're up20:36
tonybI'm on the fence about applying for FFE's for the cleanup I did, and we're blocked on the bindep stuff until we fix infra20:36
prometheanfiretonyb: I just want a FFE for completeness, I'd approve it, just have to ask20:37
tonyb... So given we have per-project lower bounds now20:37
tonybwhat if anything stops a project from releasing rocky with foo>=1.0.0 and then during the cycle bumping that to >=1.1.0 ?20:37
prometheanfirealtering our FFE policy is probably going to be a big thing for the ptg20:37
dhellmanntonyb : nothing20:38
prometheanfirelocking down lower-constraints/exclusions is not done, but does it need to be done?20:38
tonybcurrently we have an agreement with vendors that we wont bump minimums which we can do for <= queens20:38
dhellmannwe could modify the check job so that it enforces that rule on stable branches20:39
tonybI've asked vendors if havign that contact adds value and I never get a firm answer so perhaps I'm just being silly20:39
prometheanfiredhellmann: I'd be happy with that20:39
dhellmannalthough I suspect leaving it to the stable reviewers would be good enough20:39
tonybwe've already said use u-c but that's hard for enterprise distros20:39
dhellmannI hate adding hard blockers against something that might be needed20:39
tonybdhellmann: Yeah I agree.20:40
dhellmanndependency changes are visible in the release review process, fwiw20:40
prometheanfireit could still be overridden by stable I think20:40
tonybdhellmann: we do do it from timem to time so writing a tool/check and a bypass mechanism seems like we're doign somethign wrong20:40
tonybdhellmann: That is true20:40
dhellmannprometheanfire : I'm not sure what you mean?20:41
prometheanfireadding an exclusion for something should still be possible20:41
dhellmannas long as it doesn't effectively raise the min, yeah20:42
prometheanfireya20:42
prometheanfirewe have to be carful there20:42
dhellmannmy point is that sometimes we do want to raise the min -- like if it was wrong to begin with20:42
tonybthen we get >=1.0.0,!=1.0.0 ;P20:42
dhellmannI would hate for us to paint ourselves into a corner where we don't let ourselves fix something that's actually broken20:42
prometheanfiretonyb: ya, we've been over that before20:43
tonybI really don't want to push this onto the release team, nor do I like the idea of askign for revert's at release time20:43
dhellmannwe have a governance tag that indicates whether the deliverable follows the stable policy, so we have a way to block a release if there is a bad version update20:43
dhellmannmaybe we use the tag to control the check job?20:43
dhellmannif on a stable branch and repo has the flag, do not allow the min to change20:44
tonybdhellmann: We could I suppose ...20:44
prometheanfireand adding exclusions? same rule?20:44
dhellmannno, I think it's ok to leave the exclusion management the same. we already require that to be a subset of what is in the global list so we have a review step there20:45
* smcginnis tries to catch up on scrollback20:45
prometheanfireso do we need an action item to create those job/rules?20:47
tonybokay so we *can* do somethign for stable/* and projects that have stable:follows-policy but *should* we?20:48
tonybprometheanfire: perhaps lets answer my question first ...20:48
prometheanfire:P20:48
prometheanfiretonyb: you were the one concerned about slow distros :P20:48
dhellmannwhat is the risk of not doing it?20:49
tonybprometheanfire: Well more accurately I was concerned that of code chnages impleied a process chnage that we hadn't communicated20:49
prometheanfireI think it's a valid concern and we should lock down min bumps for follows-policy repos20:49
smcginnisWe let l-c updates through and a distro isn't prepared to adjust to the higher constraint?20:49
tonybprometheanfire: I don't mind if we dicide that's a good thing and communicate it *or* if we add code to reimplement it20:50
prometheanfiretonyb: it sounds like we are wishing to keep the status quo for released branches20:50
dhellmannsmcginnis : we tend to only update l-c on stable for our own releases20:50
dhellmannI think i would rather wait and see if it's actually a problem.20:50
prometheanfireit's good to re-communicate it, but it wouldn't be a change in the rules, just how they are enforced20:50
dhellmannI don't feel like the risk to the community is that high20:50
smcginnisIt doesn't seem like it.20:50
dhellmannand yes, we should communicate the policy20:50
dhellmannsmcginnis : sorry, I read l-c as u-c -- yes, we don't currently have any check blocking changes to the lower bounds or lower-constraints.txt20:51
dhellmannexcept that they have to match20:51
dhellmannthis might make a good lunch topic at the ptg, fwiw20:52
* dhellmann has to sign off20:52
tonybdhellmann: Perhaps ;P20:52
smcginnisdhellmann: Yeah, that was trying to answer the question "what is the risk of not doing it?" I think the risk doesn't really exist.20:52
tonybdhellmann: Okay thanks for your time20:52
dhellmannsmcginnis : the risk is downstream of us20:52
prometheanfireyep, tony is bringing it up now because stable branching is already happening20:52
dhellmannif we start requiring a version of something not packaged in a distro20:52
tonybCOrrect this is totally upstream trying to make downstream's life better20:53
prometheanfireyarp20:53
dhellmannI think it's a good idea both to communicate that we want teams not to change mins on stable branches and that we no longer have automation preventing that20:53
dhellmannthat way everyone knows the state of things20:53
prometheanfirethat's fine20:54
prometheanfirenext question is if we want enforcement of that policy20:54
tonybdhellmann: Cool I'll do that ... and I may ask the TC for some help trying to get vendors to actually answer when I ask if this helps or hurts them ;P20:54
prometheanfiretonyb: that'd be nice (the answer from tc)20:55
prometheanfirenext?20:55
tonybprometheanfire: The TC isn't a problem it's vendors20:55
prometheanfiretonyb: ya, not blaming them20:55
* tonyb is done20:55
prometheanfireok, only other thing I see is the two other FFE requests to bump minimums for sphinx and  python-monascaclient20:56
prometheanfireit's really late to be doing that20:56
tonybI'd have to read why but my gut is sphinx == no python-monascaclient == yes20:57
prometheanfiresure20:57
prometheanfireme too, I think they need to read the primer on per-project reqs20:57
* prometheanfire will always call that divergent reqs in his head20:58
prometheanfirebecause they may not need that everywhere, just in a repo or two20:58
tonybprometheanfire: Yup.20:58
prometheanfireI have nothing else20:59
prometheanfire#topic open floor20:59
* tonyb is good21:00
prometheanfireya, will wait a min more21:00
smcginnisSorry, distractions. Nothing here.21:02
prometheanfire#endmeeting21:02
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug  8 21:02:57 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:02
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirements/2018/requirements.2018-08-08-20.28.html21:03
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirements/2018/requirements.2018-08-08-20.28.txt21:03
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirements/2018/requirements.2018-08-08-20.28.log.html21:03
prometheanfirewfm21:03
* tonyb is offically in 3 IRC meeting at once!21:04
prometheanfiretonyb: 2 now?21:04
tonybprometheanfire: nope was 4 ;P21:05
prometheanfirelol, damn21:06
prometheanfireemailed about those FFE requests21:07
tonyb+121:08
prometheanfireyou said you were emailing about the stable branch policy for reqs updates?21:09
tonybprometheanfire: Yeah.  I'll do that later today21:10
prometheanfirek21:10
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/requirements stable/pike: update constraint for tripleo-common to new release 7.6.15  https://review.openstack.org/58970122:30
openstackgerritMerged openstack/requirements master: update constraint for os-service-types to new release 1.3.0  https://review.openstack.org/58964422:30
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