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| openstackgerrit | Feilong Wang proposed openstack/releases master: Release ZaqarClient 1.4.0 https://review.openstack.org/431194 | 02:41 |
|---|---|---|
| openstackgerrit | Feilong Wang proposed openstack/releases master: Release ZaqarClient 1.4.0 https://review.openstack.org/431194 | 02:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Feilong Wang proposed openstack/releases master: Release ZaqarClient 1.4.0 https://review.openstack.org/431194 | 02:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | Chaoyi Huang proposed openstack/releases master: Release tricircle 3.0.0.0rc1 and create stable/ocata branch https://review.openstack.org/432166 | 08:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Antoine Cabot proposed openstack/releases master: Add release notes link for Watcher https://review.openstack.org/432172 | 08:24 |
| openstackgerrit | Chaoyi Huang proposed openstack/releases master: Release tricircle 2.1.1 https://review.openstack.org/432166 | 08:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Add release notes link for Watcher https://review.openstack.org/432172 | 11:03 |
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| Jeffrey4l__ | how the project not in release project is released? like rally, in releases project, it only released its 0.4.0 tag. but in rally git repo, it has 0.8.1 tag already. | 13:27 |
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| EmilienM | dims_, dhellmann: we have made good progress on tripleo CI to stabilize things, but we're still not 100% there. If we don't have more blockers until then, I think we can release RC1 next week | 13:54 |
| dims_ | EmilienM : that's great news | 13:54 |
| ttx | dhellmann:, dims: o/ | 14:01 |
| ttx | I have a talk at the release meeting time, but I'm free now in case there is anything urgent to discuss | 14:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Lucas Alvares Gomes proposed openstack/releases master: Release virtualbmc 1.0.0 https://review.openstack.org/431509 | 14:19 |
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| dhellmann | dims_, ttx : o/ | 14:20 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : thanks for the update; let us know when you're ready | 14:21 |
| dims_ | dhellmann : ttx : o/ | 14:23 |
| dims_ | dhellmann : ttx : won't make it to the team meeting today. hard conflict | 14:23 |
| * dhellmann plans to talk to himself in an empty irc channel | 14:24 | |
| dhellmann | dims_, ttx: ack on the schedule conflict. it looks like I need to rebase the project-config changes to set up bitrot jobs, we have release candidates from all milestone projects and still have a list of 39 projects without branches | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | I'm not aware of any major issues, for now | 14:28 |
| dhellmann | though I haven't caught up on email, yet | 14:28 |
| dims_ | ack dhellmann, i did not see anything urgent on email. will be back around noon time and catch up. | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | dims_ : sounds good | 14:29 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: I should be around after the event (in 3 hours) and after dinner (in 6 hours) for extra help | 14:30 |
| dhellmann | ttx: cool; enjoy fosdem (I assume) | 14:31 |
| * ttx tries to catch up, but if you have anything I should prioritize up let me know | 14:31 | |
| ttx | No, SnowCamp in Grenoble | 14:31 |
| ttx | FOSDEM was last weekend | 14:31 |
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| ttx | ok, need to go now | 14:50 |
| ttx | will show back up later i nthe evening | 14:50 |
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| dims_ | have fun ttx | 14:56 |
| dhellmann | ooo, snowcamp | 14:59 |
| * dhellmann wants winecamp | 14:59 | |
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| sigmavirus | dtroyer: lol | 15:05 |
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| sigmavirus | dtroyer: I suspect between the two of us, dhellmann would get sick of our whining and start throwing up | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | yes, for now | 15:06 |
| dhellmann | oops | 15:06 |
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| dhellmann | dtroyer : fun with homophones! | 15:11 |
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| dhellmann | ttx, dims: when you're back online https://review.openstack.org/#/c/431731 could use reviews | 15:51 |
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| * mwhahaha pokes dhellmann | 16:22 | |
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| dims_ | +2 on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/431731 dhellmann | 16:26 |
| dims_ | should i +A it too? | 16:26 |
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| sigmavirus | dhellmann: not to be contrarian, but with upper-constraints +stable/ocata branches is the pbr release that problematic? | 16:28 |
| clarkb | sigmavirus: pbr is not "managed" by constraints iirc | 16:29 |
| clarkb | nor is it easily pinnablr | 16:30 |
| sigmavirus | ah, thanks for that explanation clarkb :) | 16:30 |
| sigmavirus | that's clearly what I was missing | 16:31 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: looking | 16:51 |
| ttx | dhellmann: +2d, will W+1 unless you stop me | 16:52 |
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| * ttx approves | 17:07 | |
| dhellmann | sigmavirus: right, as clarkb said, pbr isn't constrained | 17:13 |
| dhellmann | ttx, dims: thanks | 17:13 |
| dhellmann | mwhahaha : I'm back from my meetings | 17:14 |
| mwhahaha | dhellmann: i replied to your comments around puppet-congress | 17:15 |
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| dhellmann | mwhahaha: ack, looking | 17:17 |
| dhellmann | mwhahaha : it is starting to feel a bit like you do not want the release team to be helping you manage releases with these deliverables. | 17:19 |
| dhellmann | dims_, ttx: I could use some input on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/431182/. I don't feel especially strongly, except that we've told other projects not to try to sync their version numbers. | 17:20 |
| ttx | dhellmann: If they want same releases/version numbers it should really be the same deliverable | 17:21 |
| dhellmann | ttx: right. maybe I didn't fully explain that in my comments. maybe we merge this, and then combine the deliverable files? | 17:22 |
| dhellmann | mwhahaha : thoughts? | 17:22 |
| ttx | commented | 17:22 |
| ttx | dhellmann: we could also single-deliverable them in Pike | 17:23 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah | 17:23 |
| ttx | at this stage I'd say it's fine for ocata, so +2d | 17:23 |
| ttx | in the spirit of "too late to change more than the strictly needed" | 17:23 |
| dhellmann | let's sort it out for pike | 17:23 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 17:23 |
| mwhahaha | I'm OK merging them together into one | 17:24 |
| mwhahaha | But there are times when that doesn't make sense though | 17:25 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/releases master: set the release notes URLs for ocata deliverables https://review.openstack.org/431731 | 17:25 |
| mwhahaha | I'm not sure why version designation is something the release team should decide on vs the project | 17:25 |
| mwhahaha | If I create a new thing and I want to start at version 500.3.0 why can't I? | 17:26 |
| dhellmann | mwhahaha : we are trying to get you to clearly defined what "one deliverable" is. If you want things to always have the same version number, we define that as one deliverable. | 17:26 |
| dhellmann | mwhahaha : because that's poor messaging to users of that thing about how old, stable, etc. it is. | 17:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Release puppet-congress Ocata rc1 https://review.openstack.org/431182 | 17:27 |
| mwhahaha | So considering the majority of the start of a module inherits from older stuff one could argue hat the underlying structure is that old | 17:27 |
| mwhahaha | So I think this is the case where assumptions about one type of project don't necessarily apply universally | 17:29 |
| dhellmann | in what way? | 17:29 |
| mwhahaha | I'm mobile, gimme 15 to get back to my computer | 17:29 |
| dhellmann | k | 17:29 |
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| mwhahaha | dhellmann: ok so what you said about version and how mature is valid for the underlying project itself | 17:40 |
| mwhahaha | dhellmann: the problem is that the puppet modules aren't designed like that, the maturity is not the important thing but rather what cycle they are for | 17:41 |
| mwhahaha | dhellmann: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/puppet-openstack-guide/releases.html#releases-summary | 17:41 |
| mwhahaha | dhellmann: as we only maintain n-1 backwards compatibility, it's important that the modules use manage the projects be similar | 17:41 |
| mwhahaha | dhellmann: I mean we could switch the first version from 10.3.0 to 10.0.0 and that's be ok. but i'm not starting at 1.0 for that module | 17:41 |
| dhellmann | mwhahaha : we have a lot of other things where belonging to a cycle is important, too, so that's not unique to puppet. | 17:42 |
| mwhahaha | dhellmann: right but as we have ~40 modules, the version being at least the same major revision is important | 17:42 |
| dhellmann | mwhahaha : for pike, if you want the modules to all have the same versions, please make them one deliverable | 17:42 |
| mwhahaha | dhellmann: so i don't want them always to be the exact same version | 17:43 |
| mwhahaha | dhellmann: the problem is i want a middle ground | 17:43 |
| mwhahaha | dhellmann: i need to be able to release a single module for fixes related to that (ie nova breaks something) but as a whole we increment as the cycles progress | 17:43 |
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| mwhahaha | dhellmann: going back to your original comment, why 'dhellmann> mwhahaha : it is starting to feel a bit like you do not want the release team to be helping you manage releases with these deliverables.' | 17:44 |
| dhellmann | yes, that's based on the fact that the way you want to manage the releases does not match up with the way we have established things with the automation and with the policies we've put in place to make it possible for us to manage the releases of over 220 repos | 17:46 |
| dhellmann | if your needs don't fit into that, then maybe it would be easier for you to manage the releases. That's not to say I'm unwilling, but I also don't want to force fit things. | 17:46 |
| mwhahaha | so i think this is once again where something is being decided and not well communicated which is evidently inconsistent with the way we'd been doing thigns for many cycles | 17:47 |
| mwhahaha | so kicking puppet out of release process because it no longer fits seems a bit weird to me | 17:47 |
| dhellmann | I'm not kicking anyone out of anywhere | 17:48 |
| dhellmann | I'm suggesting that your needs may not be well met by the processes we have in place | 17:48 |
| mwhahaha | but the process is fine, you didn't like the version number | 17:48 |
| dhellmann | We have lots of deliverables not managed by the release team at all | 17:48 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that's all part of it | 17:48 |
| mwhahaha | not sure how that escallated to 'go manage your own stuff' | 17:48 |
| dhellmann | I'm not telling you to do anything. I'm asking you to consider the tradeoffs you're making by asking someone else to help you with this. | 17:49 |
| mwhahaha | so this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned the version number thing | 17:49 |
| mwhahaha | so clearly i'm missing some part of that | 17:49 |
| dhellmann | perhaps its the first time we noticed. that's why we have reviews. | 17:49 |
| mwhahaha | right but it's also point that perhaps this should be messaged to the community better? | 17:50 |
| mwhahaha | i was unware that version numbers fell to the release team | 17:50 |
| dhellmann | no one else has objected when we raised the issue in a review | 17:50 |
| dhellmann | what was it you thought we were reviewing? | 17:50 |
| mwhahaha | to be honest, i have no idea what specifically you look for | 17:51 |
| ttx | we are trying to check that version numbers match some shared expectations across openstack projects | 17:52 |
| dhellmann | some of this is written down in http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/releases/tree/README.rst | 17:52 |
| ttx | so semver for libs / intermediary-released things | 17:52 |
| dhellmann | though I don't see this specific topic there | 17:52 |
| ttx | and the preversioing for the milestone-driven things | 17:52 |
| ttx | Technically I think it's fine to have almost-similar version numbering with the freedom to diverge locally, it's just a bit unusual and confusing | 17:53 |
| dhellmann | I don't have notes saved from the discussion about how the puppet deliverables were set up, but I do think I had the conversation about 'things with the same version number are the same deliverable' at that point | 17:53 |
| ttx | since same version number seems to imply things are part of the same group | 17:53 |
| ttx | while they aren't since they can diverge /sometimes/ | 17:54 |
| mwhahaha | right so within the puppet modules, the version are in the same group | 17:54 |
| mwhahaha | which is independent of the projects themselves | 17:54 |
| ttx | the deliverable grouping clarifies that. It's either the same thing and always has same version numbers, or not | 17:54 |
| mwhahaha | but they don't have to be identical | 17:54 |
| mwhahaha | it just so happens that we generally are identical because we do a whole version bump for the milestones | 17:55 |
| mwhahaha | but there are many cases where a single module had a version bump | 17:55 |
| ttx | I guess our confusion stems from "same group". Anyway, not somethig we would fix for Ocata, but probably something to discuss more in detail for Pike | 17:55 |
| mwhahaha | i think the ansible stuff follows a similar versioning pattern | 17:55 |
| * ttx needs to run | 17:55 | |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: set the release notes URLs for ocata deliverables https://review.openstack.org/431731 | 17:55 |
| dhellmann | I'm more concerned with a brand new thing starting at version 10 than with things having exactly the same versions | 17:56 |
| mwhahaha | dhellmann: i think that's a coincidence, because i could have just included it in pike-1 and it would have started at 11.0.0 with everything else | 17:56 |
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| mwhahaha | anyway i'm not trying to be a pain, i'm trying to understand expectations and where these rules come in. it seems like everytime i learn a new assumption that may or may not conflict with how the puppet modules had previously been released | 17:57 |
| mwhahaha | so it would be beneficial that when these assumptions or patterns arise that they be communicated to the PTLs or release stewards | 17:58 |
| mwhahaha | we had to go with this numbering scheme because the normal python b# or rc# designation breaks puppet | 17:59 |
| mwhahaha | so that's why we happen to be aligning numbers such as this | 17:59 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we do need to write more of this down, I agree | 18:01 |
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| dhellmann | almost none of the policies are based on the language of the thing being released | 18:02 |
| dhellmann | some are based on the type (semver for libs) | 18:02 |
| dhellmann | the communication channel we're using right now is the reviews; mostly that has been working, although we haven't always updated the docs after every discussion | 18:03 |
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| clarkb | mwhahaha: how does the rc designation break puppet? | 18:18 |
| clarkb | fwiw we recently were grumping at ansible for not properly using rcs because not using rcs made puppet not work... | 18:19 |
| mwhahaha | clarkb: version numbers must be #.#.#. #.#.#b1 doesn't work | 18:20 |
| mwhahaha | clarkb: EmilienM might remember but the way puppet parses the version number for modules doesn't support those designations | 18:20 |
| clarkb | oh for the modules itself gotcha | 18:21 |
| mwhahaha | so we can't follow the same designation like the projects where we'd just release you know 5.0.0b1. so we use 5.x.0 for the milesones and rcs | 18:21 |
| mwhahaha | and since the first number is kinda the cycle they all line up at some point during the cycles | 18:22 |
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| mwhahaha | if anyone cares, https://tickets.puppetlabs.com/browse/PUP-4951 is what kinda dictated how we do version numbers | 18:27 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Release secondary puppet modules https://review.openstack.org/430937 | 19:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Release Karbor 0.2.0 https://review.openstack.org/430977 | 19:03 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases master: Release virtualbmc 1.0.0 https://review.openstack.org/431509 | 19:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/releases master: improve instructions for defining deliverable and picking version numbers https://review.openstack.org/432460 | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | mwhahaha : ^^ | 21:20 |
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| mwhahaha | dhellmann: ack, i'll review it next week. initial look seems to be ok and i'll try and figure out how to restructure the puppet stuff for next cycle | 22:31 |
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