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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases: release keystoneauth 2.6.0 https://review.openstack.org/305417 | 01:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sachi King proposed openstack/releases: PBR 1.9.1 https://review.openstack.org/305604 | 04:26 |
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| ttx | jroll: looks like you have a friend there: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1493 | 07:16 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases: add note about thursday deadlines https://review.openstack.org/297750 | 08:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases: PBR 1.9.1 https://review.openstack.org/305604 | 09:56 |
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| dims_ | ttx : easy one when you get a chance https://review.openstack.org/#/c/305272/ | 10:55 |
| patchbot | dims_: patch 305272 - openstack-infra/release-tools - Pick last SHA for PREVIOUS_VERSION | 10:55 |
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| jroll | ttx: wow | 11:23 |
| jroll | I was never a fan of shuttleworth but holy cow | 11:23 |
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| ttx | jroll: I like the "physical access" confusion, too | 11:54 |
| jroll | ttx: heh, yeah | 11:55 |
| ttx | dims_: done | 11:55 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack-infra/release-tools: Pick last SHA for PREVIOUS_VERSION https://review.openstack.org/305272 | 11:58 |
| clarkb | new ironic tshirts with something like this on them http://paste.openstack.org/show/494045/ | 11:58 |
| clarkb | jroll: ^ | 11:59 |
| jroll | LOL | 11:59 |
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| jroll | clarkb: http://i.imgur.com/MSE9PoT.jpg | 12:19 |
| clarkb | haha | 12:27 |
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| dims_ | thanks ttx | 12:28 |
| dims_ | jroll : lol | 12:28 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/releases: liberty: release nova 12.0.3 https://review.openstack.org/305415 | 12:29 |
| clarkb | jroll: cpuld sneak a Freedom | NSA on there but the sarcasm probably wouldnt come through | 12:29 |
| jroll | lol | 12:30 |
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| dhellmann | ttx, dims: good morning! we should talk about packaging/deployment release models when you're free | 13:03 |
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| ttx | ok, just a second | 13:07 |
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| ttx | foghtinh video editing, will be there in a min | 13:21 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok. I have a call at the top of the hour, but am free the rest of the day | 13:24 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ok ready now | 13:32 |
| * ttx looks up the change list | 13:33 | |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok | 13:33 |
| ttx | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297297/ | 13:34 |
| patchbot | ttx: patch 297297 - governance - Change OpenStack-Ansible release model | 13:34 |
| ttx | Ansible moving to cycle-with-intermediary | 13:34 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I'm fine with adding those now if they can match the release dates | 13:35 |
| dhellmann | for ansible, puppet, and kolla I think we want to resolve the schedule question before agreeing to the model changes | 13:35 |
| ttx | right | 13:35 |
| dhellmann | right, it seems that at least kolla was skeptical of being able to do that always | 13:36 |
| dhellmann | and the others may be overly optimistic | 13:36 |
| dhellmann | (IMO) | 13:36 |
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| ttx | So we have several options there | 13:36 |
| dhellmann | OTOH, cycle-with-intermediary allows them to stay on schedule, and release fixes for late changes | 13:36 |
| ttx | We can define a type:packaging/deployment thing that allows for some flexibility on release dates | 13:37 |
| ttx | (that would list them separately on the release page and we could add a warning there that it may trail releases) | 13:37 |
| ttx | We can say no, stay independent | 13:37 |
| dhellmann | we could define a new model entirely | 13:38 |
| ttx | Or we can come up with a different release model (late_with-milestones) and have a completely separate set of pages | 13:38 |
| ttx | right | 13:38 |
| ttx | for things tracking mitaka | 13:38 |
| ttx | but not part of mitaka | 13:38 |
| ttx | I'm not a fan of option 1 because it dilutes the meaning of "release" | 13:39 |
| dhellmann | keeping them independent doesn't make it easy to communicate which version of the tool goes with each version of openstack | 13:39 |
| ttx | option 2 has the problem you just mention | 13:39 |
| jokke_ | I quite like that late_with-milestones | 13:40 |
| ttx | option 3... would we need a trailing-with-milestones and a trailing-with-intermediary ? | 13:40 |
| dhellmann | for option 1, you mean that because some things wouldn't be "done" when we say the release is done, it will look odd? | 13:40 |
| jokke_ | it's clear and gives the trailing projects what they need | 13:40 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yes. What is "the release" ? Currently it's the thing that is done on release day, and then it's "done" | 13:40 |
| dhellmann | I think if we just have trailing-cycle we can allow intermediary updates | 13:40 |
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| ttx | But we could also say that the release is more like a cycle thing, and we have things released in the middle, things after... | 13:41 |
| dhellmann | the name doesn't have to include every aspect of the model, just the key bits | 13:41 |
| ttx | but that creates a bit of confusion I think | 13:41 |
| ttx | I kinda like "mitaka" to be released at one point | 13:41 |
| ttx | and not have some things claiming to be mitaka and released the week after | 13:41 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 13:42 |
| ttx | because then people get confused about this "OpenStack Mitaka" thing and its boundaries | 13:42 |
| dhellmann | having a separate model makes it clearer that a given project is not promising to be done on release day | 13:42 |
| jokke_ | ttx: what's so punctual about it? Aren't the libs released before that date and still called mitaka? | 13:42 |
| dhellmann | while still allowing it to be part of the release | 13:42 |
| ttx | jokke_: we still end up with one "mitaka" version on release day | 13:43 |
| dhellmann | right, the key thing is they are done *by* the date, not *on* the date | 13:43 |
| ttx | i.e. somone looking at "mitaka" on release day knows what's in it | 13:43 |
| ttx | no surprise arrival the week after | 13:43 |
| jokke_ | ttx: point | 13:43 |
| ttx | dhellmann: if separate model we can also have a bit more latitude on dates | 13:44 |
| ttx | dhellmann: do we need to distinguish milestones-driven from intermediary-released in that model ? | 13:45 |
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| ttx | ansible wants -with-intermediary, puppet with-intermediary, kolla with-milestones | 13:46 |
| * ttx looks up Fuel | 13:46 | |
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| jokke_ | ttx: one option giving the predictability would be that the late_with-milestones would need to have RC available at the release date and it would be listed as such in the release page notifying that these projects are following late but they should be functionally complete | 13:47 |
| ttx | fuelk might end up wanting _with-milestones | 13:47 |
| ttx | does -with-milestones make sense if you trail ? | 13:48 |
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| ttx | ah, we lost dhellmann | 13:48 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: I have that call, bbiab | 13:56 |
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| ttx | he is back! | 14:00 |
| odyssey4me | ttx we'll be debating the model we want to apply at the summit - it's likely that we'll want to actually go with 'with-milestones' instead of 'with-intermediary' | 14:00 |
| odyssey4me | I don't see us doing what Swift does, which is release off master from time to time. We're aiming to follow the OpenStack service model more closely. | 14:01 |
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| ttx | he is not back! | 14:01 |
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| odyssey4me | We're also happy to fall within the standard release cycle. We build from the master git sources anyway, and if we discipline ourselves well enough by decent planning we're able to release on RC SHA's and handle any cleaning up that may be necessary in a hotfix release soon after. Our releases are scheduled every two weeks, so we have plenty of scope to manage any nitty changes. | 14:02 |
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| dims_ | lol | 14:17 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: what consumes the meta:pypi being added at http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/release-tools/tree/release.sh#n84 ? | 14:45 |
| fungi | or is that for future use? | 14:46 |
| fungi | since i see it being set as "no" on tags for things we do publish to pypi | 14:47 |
| dims_ | fungi : http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/release-tools/tree/announce.sh#n143 ? | 14:54 |
| fungi | aha, thanks dims_ | 14:55 |
| fungi | for some reason i missed that | 14:55 |
| dims_ | :) | 14:56 |
| fungi | so it's telling release-notes to include a pypi hyperlink in the release announcement. is not setting include_pypi when tagging things we normally publish there typical for now, or an oversight? | 14:58 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yes, I think if a project is actually publishing to pypi and they have that flag set to false then it's an error. it defaults to false because most server projects don't go to pypi. | 15:10 |
| fungi | got it. so the pbr 1.9.1 release request should have had that meta:pypi: yes | 15:15 |
| fungi | and since it wasn't in the request, it defaulted to no | 15:16 |
| fungi | makes sense--thanks! | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, we can fix that for the next one | 15:19 |
| fungi | not concerned, mainly just wanted to understand what the meta:pypi: no was for in the tag message | 15:20 |
| fungi | since it seemed contradictory to reality | 15:21 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/releases: invoke sphinx directly instead of through pbr https://review.openstack.org/305923 | 15:26 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/releases: show release highlights https://review.openstack.org/305924 | 15:27 |
| dhellmann | fungi : all of the meta values are just instructions to that announce script, put there by the release script but not used by it | 15:27 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/releases: include the pypi link in pbr announcements https://review.openstack.org/305927 | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | fungi : ^^ | 15:28 |
| fungi | aha--thanks! | 15:31 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, we came up with that as a way to pass data between the different jobs doing the tagging vs. sending the emails. it has the benefit of recording what was done so we can see what instructions the announce job got if there is an issue | 15:46 |
| fungi | good implementation | 15:47 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: hah! you're back | 16:00 |
| ttx | dhellmann: we should continue that discussion at the release meeting tomorrow | 16:00 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: yes, I'm not sure what was going on but restarting my bouncer seems to have fixed the connection issues | 16:08 |
| ttx | dhellmann: is your server running on the new dreamhost region ? | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | ttx: no, the old one | 16:08 |
| ttx | (or an old one) | 16:08 |
| ttx | ok | 16:08 |
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| dhellmann | ttx, thanks for your comments on that email draft. I made a few changes to clarify the points you raised | 16:13 |
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| EmilienM | dhellmann: re - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297382/ -- is there a ML thread I've missed about this new release model for deployment tools? | 18:35 |
| patchbot | EmilienM: patch 297382 - governance - Update release tags for some Puppet OpenStack modules | 18:35 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : no, not yet :-) | 18:35 |
| EmilienM | ahah ok :) | 18:35 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : I'll be working on the new model definitions today/tomorrow | 18:35 |
| EmilienM | nice! | 18:35 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : there are some details from the conversation ttx and I had earlier today in this channel, if you can't wait :-) | 18:36 |
| * EmilienM scrollback | 18:36 | |
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| EmilienM | dhellmann: "overly optimistic" > example, for puppet group, we released one week before official date. We could have waited for official date. WHat I mean here is that our group has the process and tools (mostly thanks to CI using trunk packaging) to makes releases on same time as other projects. | 18:41 |
| EmilienM | I don't think we are overly optimistic in this case ^ | 18:41 |
| dhellmann | EmilienM : that works, until you have the case that one of the other groups ran into with some late change breaking the work they did. I can't remember if that was kolla or ansible off the top of my head. | 18:42 |
| EmilienM | dhellmann: the main difference between devstack & $(kolla puppet etc) is the way to deploy OpenStack code. Kolla & Puppet groups, use RDO packaging, that is basically trunk. So we're already deploying Newton. | 18:43 |
| EmilienM | that's why we are able to provide such releases on time | 18:44 |
| dhellmann | ok | 18:44 |
| dhellmann | the new model will basically reflect that we anticipate final releases of deployment tools lagging, and that's not a "failure" in any sense, but it clearly tells potential users that there may be updates shortly after the release cut-off for projects following the other release models | 18:45 |
| EmilienM | excellent | 18:45 |
| dhellmann | so if you're on time, that'll obviously be fine, but if you need an extra week or two, that would also be ok | 18:45 |
| EmilienM | I think that's exactly what some projects needed, so it's an excellent news | 18:47 |
| odyssey4me | EmilienM ++ | 18:47 |
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| dhellmann | EmilienM , odyssey4me, sdake: https://review.openstack.org/306037 | 19:07 |
| dhellmann | ttx, dims: ^^ | 19:08 |
| sdake | dhellmann sounsd intereseting | 19:16 |
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| sdake | dhellmann eatin lucnh atm, i'll hve to get back to you with a review | 19:16 |
| dhellmann | sdake : ok | 19:16 |
| sdake | dhellmann just breifly looking at it, that is exactly what I want | 19:18 |
| sdake | I htink it describes the problem nicely | 19:18 |
| sdake | with the current release models | 19:18 |
| dhellmann | sdake : I think the only difference may be in using a different model instead of carving out an exception. | 19:18 |
| dhellmann | it's simpler, and it lets us do things on releases.o.o when we render project lists | 19:19 |
| sdake | yup your approach makes more sense - i hate exceptions ;) | 19:19 |
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| dims_ | ah trailing tag :) for deployers etc | 19:57 |
| dims_ | reading dhellmann | 19:58 |
| dims_ | dhellmann : so if i remember we said, a project can have only one release_cycle* tag right? | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | dims_ : right | 20:01 |
| dims_ | dhellmann : if so then we have to say release_cycle-trailing should do everything defined in release_cycle-with-milestones but with a lag | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | dims_ : ok, I thought that's what I was saying in requirements, though not in those terms | 20:02 |
| dims_ | dhellmann : we can strengthen the language around line 22 to make this clear - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/306037/1/reference/tags/release_cycle-trailing.rst | 20:02 |
| patchbot | dims_: patch 306037 - governance - add release:cycle-trailing tag | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | maybe on line 71 change "may" to "will" | 20:03 |
| dims_ | +1 | 20:03 |
| dims_ | dhellmann : the Rationale section is identical between the 3 rst(s) right? | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | dims_ : that's the intent | 20:07 |
| dims_ | yep just making sure | 20:07 |
| dims_ | EmilienM : 2 weeks is decent time? | 20:08 |
| EmilienM | dims_: it's decent time. Though I think Puppet group won't use this model, we are able to release on time. | 20:09 |
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| xarses | o/ | 20:09 |
| EmilienM | dims_: we released Mitaka 1 week before official date | 20:09 |
| dims_ | hey xarses : new tag being proposed - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/306037/1/reference/tags/release_cycle-trailing.rst | 20:09 |
| patchbot | dims_: patch 306037 - governance - add release:cycle-trailing tag | 20:09 |
| dims_ | EmilienM : very cool :) | 20:10 |
| EmilienM | dims_: but I see an high interest for some other projects, and it makes sense | 20:10 |
| dims_ | xarses : ""release:cycle-trailing" projects commit to produce a release no later than 2 weeks after the end of the 6-month development cycle." | 20:10 |
| dims_ | xarses : will fuel have any interest in this tag? | 20:10 |
| xarses | we had planned to be on time, but we had to many exceptions | 20:11 |
| xarses | we are on track for 4/20 being the release for Mitaka | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | xarses : the new tag will cover you for that | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | you should consider it for newton, when it's approved | 20:11 |
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| dims_ | xarses : yep as dhellmann says this is something new for Newton | 20:12 |
| xarses | yep | 20:12 |
| dims_ | dhellmann : looks good to me. other than that line 71 | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | dims_ : I just published a new draft | 20:13 |
| dims_ | dhellmann : thanks. looking again | 20:14 |
| xarses | dims_: dhellmann seems fine | 20:16 |
| dims_ | looks good | 20:17 |
| xarses | our goal would be to make target, but yes as it stands we have to come after by even a day to build packages | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | xarses : if you want to propose a change on top of mine to add the tag to fuel, I'll rebase it for you if I end up making more edits to this definition | 20:17 |
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| xarses | dhellmann: I will; kozhukalov will need to review it | 20:27 |
| xarses | but I think its fine | 20:28 |
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| dims_ | thanks xarses | 20:28 |
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| xarses | dims_: dhellmann https://review.openstack.org/#/c/306071/ | 20:45 |
| patchbot | xarses: patch 306071 - governance - Change fuel to release:cycle-trailing | 20:45 |
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| sdake_ | dhellmann see: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/300752 | 21:20 |
| sdake_ | off for some r&r | 21:20 |
| sdake_ | bbl :) | 21:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed openstack/releases: Release python-heatclient 1.2.0 https://review.openstack.org/306096 | 21:55 |
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| kzaitsev_mb | ttx: I'm trying to edit murano schedule for summit, but it seems that I've been doing smth wrong as I don't see any edit options there | 23:35 |
| kzaitsev_mb | may I ask you to help me out with that one? | 23:35 |
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