Friday, 2021-04-09

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viveknarasimhanHI14:00
lajoskatonaHi14:00
viveknarasimhanjust testing :)14:00
slaweq#startmeeting neutron_drivers14:01
openstackMeeting started Fri Apr  9 14:01:04 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is slaweq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:01
slaweqhi14:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)"14:01
mlavalleo/14:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers'14:01
amotokio/14:01
lajoskatonao/14:01
haleybo/14:01
gibi\o14:01
ralonsohhi14:01
viveknarasimhano/14:02
slaweqwe have quorum so I think we can start now14:02
slaweq#topic RFEs14:02
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slaweqwe have 2 rfe for today14:03
slaweqfirst one14:03
slaweqhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/192223714:03
openstackLaunchpad bug 1922237 in neutron "[RFE][QoS] Add minimum guaranteed packet rate QoS rule" [Undecided,New]14:03
gibiyepp14:03
gibithat is on me14:03
slaweqand we have gibi to ask a questions :)14:03
slaweqwelcome gibi14:03
gibiin short this is similar to what we already done with minimum bandwidth QoS rule14:03
gibibut now with minimum packet rate14:03
gibithe scope is14:04
gibionly the OVS agent reports packet rate inventory14:04
gibi(the rest of the backend can be considered later if needed)14:04
gibionly the scheduling time guarantees are in scope, data plane enforecement can be added later14:04
gibiafter the packet rate limiter QoS policy is implemented (separate RFE from liu)14:05
gibiwe need both Neutron and Nova impact14:05
gibidetails are being worked on in two specs14:05
gibihttps://review.opendev.org/q/topic:bp/qos-minimum-guaranteed-packet-rate14:05
ralonsohjust a couple of questions/requests:14:06
gibias it stands today, I will drive the implementation of both the Neutron and the Nova impact with helps from lajoskatona14:06
gibiralonsoh: sure14:06
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ralonsohboth APIs and DB changes (Liu's and yours) could be implemented at once14:07
gibiralonsoh: do you suggest to have a single API extension for both?14:07
ralonsohno but to submit the change at the same time14:08
slaweqI think we should have 2 api extensions, just to be consistent with other things14:08
gibiI agree on the separate extensions14:08
lajoskatona+114:08
gibiNova will depend on only one of them14:08
gibiralonsoh: I can try to sync with Liu about proposing the API impact around the same time14:08
lajoskatonaLius speaks of qos_pps_limiter while gibi qos_min_pps14:08
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ralonsohand about the spec, I don't see clear the driver enforcement part14:09
ralonsohlajoskatona, I know, this is what I said14:09
lajoskatonaralonsoh: ok14:09
gibiralonsoh: right now the data plane enforcement of the min pps guarantee is out of scope14:09
ralonsohok, ok14:09
gibithat first need a pps limiter implementation from Liu14:09
ralonsohperfect for me then, thanks!14:09
gibicool14:10
gibiis there any other question?14:10
amotokiI understand it is not an easy thing to ensure min pps from POV of data plane. Ensuring min pps at the scheduling time sounds good.14:10
amotokiit is straight forward proposal and it sounds reaosnable to me14:11
gibiamotoki: yes, I agree14:11
slaweqone more question14:11
gibi(on the hardness of the data plane stuff)14:11
slaweqYou said in the rfe that resource_request will have to be changed now14:11
viveknarasimhan+1 as dataplane enforcement can be taken up later14:11
gibislaweq: yes, we need a deeper nested structure14:11
slaweqdoes it means that nova and neutron will need to be upgraded together? Or will it be somehow compatible to make it working with e.g. Neutron Xena and Nova Wallaby?14:12
slaweqor isn't such configuration supported at all?14:12
gibislaweq: I can make Xena Nova work with both Xena Neutron or Wallaby Neutron by keeping the old resource_request parsing logic in Nova14:13
gibiand selecting the parse based on which Neutron API extension is enabled14:13
gibis/parse/parser/14:13
gibiI'm not sure if we really support mixing controller service versions14:14
amotokislaweq: is it a common case where mixed versions of nova/neutron are run except during the upgrade?14:14
slaweqamotoki: I don't know, that's why I asked if we support that thing at all14:14
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slaweqmaybe not and then there is no problem14:14
slaweq:)14:14
ralonsohI don't this is supported, but server/agent version delta14:14
slaweqok14:15
slaweqso that is good for me then :)14:15
rubasovlate o/14:15
gibiI have one more practical question14:15
gibido you feel the need to have a short chat with the nova team around this feature during the PTG?14:15
ralonsohsure14:15
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gibiOK, then I will talk to slaweq separately about a timeslot14:16
slaweq++14:16
gibiI don't think we need a whole hour for it14:16
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mlavalleI am good with this RFE14:16
ralonsoh+1 to the RFE14:16
mlavallestraightforward definition14:16
amotoki+114:16
slaweq+114:17
mlavalle+114:17
haleyb+114:17
viveknarasimhan+114:17
slaweqok, I will mark this RFE as approved and will sync with gibi to schedule some time slot to discuss that during ptg too14:18
slaweqthx14:18
gibithank you folks!14:18
slaweqsecond rfe14:18
slaweqhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/192146114:18
openstackLaunchpad bug 1921461 in neutron "[RFE] Enhancement to Neutron BGPaaS to directly support Neutron Routers & bgp-peering from such routers over internal & external Neutron Networks" [Undecided,New]14:18
viveknarasimhanthanks for taking this up in PTG today14:19
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viveknarasimhani can put a few words to describe what this RFE addresses, can i put in?14:19
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slaweqviveknarasimhan: sure14:20
ralonsohplease14:20
viveknarasimhanthanks slaweq14:20
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viveknarasimhanthis RFE is raised to enhance our current Neutron BGPaas Service14:20
viveknarasimhanto enable it to support BGP-Peering over Internal-Neutron-Networks and External-Neutron-Networks14:20
viveknarasimhanthe idea is to bring L3 connectivity to non-neutron service-addresses hosted inside VNFs for access by telco subscribers14:21
viveknarasimhanthe VNFs provide several services to subscribers over dedicated service-addresses and enabling such service-addresses to be available on ISP-PE-Routers14:22
viveknarasimhanby enhancing BGPaaS to support peering to VNFs over Internal Networks14:22
viveknarasimhan& by enhancing BGPaas to support peering towards ISP-PE-Routers over External Networks14:22
viveknarasimhanThe spec is here : https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/neutron-specs/+/783791/14:23
manubk39thanks Vivek for the details. there was a network flip. just joined again14:23
viveknarasimhanthe RFE proposes 3 things:14:23
viveknarasimhana.  Provide direct association of routers to a bgpspeaker14:23
viveknarasimhanb. enable bgpspeakers to peer with VNFs over Neutron-Tenant-Networks14:24
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viveknarasimhanc. enable bgpspeakers to peer with ISP-PE-Routers over External-Neutron-Networks14:24
mlavallebig changes14:24
slaweqso IIUC You want to have bgpspeaker run inside router's namespace14:25
viveknarasimhanit is a fair proposal, but brings in capabilities into Openstack that make it much more relevant to Telco space14:25
slaweqand announce to the external routers IPs from the tenant network14:25
slaweqis that correct?14:25
viveknarasimhanslaweq: yes, once a bgpspeaker is associated to a router, the speaker will run inside the router-namespace14:25
viveknarasimhanand speaker will connect to external(aka ISP) and internal entities (VNFs) through the routers interface in the namespace14:26
mlavallenothing wrong with a big change in principle14:26
viveknarasimhanyes the speaker will recieve external router IPs enabling reachability by VNF14:26
amotokibut from the perspective of routers outside of openstack (i.e. neutron), there is no need to run BGPspeaker in a router ns. why do you need to run a speaker in a router ns?14:27
viveknarasimhanand same way speaker will advertise internal-non-neutron-service-addresses to ISP router for enabling reachability of such addresses by Telco subscribers on ISP side14:27
amotokiI am not sure what VNF you mean. where is VNF run?14:27
lajoskatonaI think we can translate VNF to an application inside the VM14:28
amotokiIs a VNF run on a VM on nova?14:28
viveknarasimhanamotoki: VNF is a VM,  Virtual Network Function14:28
viveknarasimhanVNF is a VM fired by Nova14:28
amotokiokay14:28
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viveknarasimhanwe use VNF as more common terminology in Telco domains rather than VMs14:28
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viveknarasimhanthe router we are talking about is a Neutron Router which is also a Gateway Router14:29
amotokiI know what is VNF. I just would like to clarify it based on OpenStack terminology :)14:29
viveknarasimhana Gateway Router for a DC today has capabilities like BGP, BFD,  multiple external networks. Our RFE would enable a Neutron Router to become a Neutron Gateway Router14:29
viveknarasimhanwhen need be14:29
slaweqwill Your proposal be compatible with what we have now?14:30
slaweqnow there is one DrAgent on compute node IIRC14:30
viveknarasimhanFor a bgpspeaker to peer with VNFs, it can access such VNFs through the neutron router14:30
slaweqand it is bgpspeaker14:30
slaweqcorrect?14:30
viveknarasimhanin our RFE , we won't be using the DrAgent14:30
viveknarasimhanthe L3Agent will drive the functionality of a DrAgent as the BGPSpeaker is coupled with Router14:31
amotokiIs the API compatible with what we have now?14:31
viveknarasimhanthe API we proposed is compatible with existing API14:31
viveknarasimhanwe can associate a provider-network to a bgpspeaker today14:32
viveknarasimhanthat will remain and work as is with DrAgent14:32
manubkyes and there will be new API which will be created for associating BGP speaker to router14:32
viveknarasimhanwhen the tenant associates neutron router to a bgpspeaker,  the realization will happen through the L3Agent14:32
mlavallewill this replace neutron dynamic routing?14:32
viveknarasimhanBGPServicePlugin will work with L3Plugin to in turn drive the L3agent to manage BGPSpekaer14:32
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viveknarasimhanmlavelle:  it is not replacing anything14:33
viveknarasimhanwe are offering an enhanced BGPPlugin that can support network-association and router-association14:33
viveknarasimhansimilar to how BGPVPN in Openstack provides today14:33
viveknarasimhannetwork-association will work through current path of ServicePlugin -> DrAgent -> Speaker14:33
viveknarasimhanrouter-association will work through enhancedBGPServicePlugin -> L3Plugin -> L3agent -> Speaker14:34
amotokiI think we need some new l3 agent ext in neutron-dynamic-routing too, right?14:34
viveknarasimhanamotoki:  at this moment, we think neutron-dynamic-routing will have enhancement only on teh BGPplugin14:34
viveknarasimhanbut, it will need to make calls to L3Plugin14:34
viveknarasimhanwe won't bring l3agentext into neutron-dynamic-routing as we donot see that is necessary14:35
slaweqyou mean to L3 service plugin?14:35
viveknarasimhanyes L3 service Plugin14:35
viveknarasimhanslaweq:  we will retain L3ServicePlugin as the owner of Router,  we just enhance the BGPServicePlugin to talk to L3Plugin to accomplish BGPspeaker managed14:35
viveknarasimhanin that namespace of the router-associated-to-bgp-speaker14:36
mlavallemy question was poorly phrased.... do you need to make changes to neutron dynamic routing or this is only on the Neutron side? I don't think this is clarified in the RFE14:36
slaweqI'm not sure if I understand all that concept, I though that it will require some enhancement on the agent's side14:36
slaweqnot in the server/db side14:36
viveknarasimhanwe have a prototype demo recording of how this works for the tenant, and we are willing to share the recording for upstream friends here14:36
viveknarasimhanthe enhancmeent for us is in just 3 places:14:36
viveknarasimhana. Enhanced BGPServicePlugin14:37
viveknarasimhanb. Enhanced L3 Plugin as it needs to pass the BGPSpeaker-associated-to-router towards the L3Agent14:37
viveknarasimhanc. Enhanced L3Agent that will note that the router is BGPaas-wrapped, and will manage a single BGPSpeaker for that router namespace14:38
viveknarasimhanWe are supporting only one router-to-be-associated per BGPspeaker14:38
amotokiI have a concern on the approach regarding b and c14:38
viveknarasimhanwhich is unlike networks today where we allow tons of networks to be present on a bgpspeaker14:38
amotokiit will introduce BGP stuff in L3 plugin and L3 agent.14:38
slaweqamotoki: exactly14:38
amotokitheoretically it should be implemented as l3 agnet extension14:38
viveknarasimhanamotoki:  Would it be better if BGPPlugin talks directly to L3Agent?14:38
slaweqfor c) IMO it could be l3 agent extension, like we have for fip qos or port_forwardings now14:39
viveknarasimhanslaweq and amotoki:  The implementaation we can work out, we request your feedback about our concept14:39
lajoskatonawhich will work only if ndr is enabled?14:39
viveknarasimhanplease let us know twhat you think14:39
ralonsohcan you share the code?14:40
slaweqviveknarasimhan: I would like to see that demo if it would be fine for You14:40
viveknarasimhanwe also want to put here that this is one of the most common use-case for 5G-service-capable-VNFs that we host for Telco providers14:40
viveknarasimhanslaweq: Wonderful, we can forward you the demo-recorded link14:40
mlavallewho is we?14:40
slaweqviveknarasimhan: can You put it in the comment to the LP RFE?14:41
viveknarasimhanmlavelle: that is great question.  We here is manubk, myself and our other co-community colleagues Lajos  & Bence14:41
viveknarasimhanslaweq: yes we will put the demo link in the LP RFE14:41
lajoskatonayes it is an Ericsson backed feature request14:41
mlavallethat helps14:42
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viveknarasimhanin the near future,  most of 5G-capable-VNFs and CNFs will serve tons of addresses all of them brought through EBGP towards ISP14:42
viveknarasimhanenabling Telco subscribers to get high-end services exposed by VNFs14:42
lajoskatonaI started to add lines of these things to the PTG etherpad, to have more feedback14:43
mlavallethat is interesting and exciting....14:43
viveknarasimhanmlavelle ,  slaweq,  amotoki:  we request collaboration from community as the use-case is exciting and it brings a highly scalable bgpaas for use by lot of tenants and their VNFs14:43
mlavallemlavalle not mlavelle14:44
mlavallesorry, 3rd time14:44
viveknarasimhansorry thanks14:44
viveknarasimhanmlavalle:  Thanks for correcting14:45
mlavalleas I said, I find this interesting and exciting...14:45
viveknarasimhanthanks mlavalle14:45
mlavalleI am inclined to explore it further, especially from the perspective of this new %G uses cases14:45
mlavalle5G^^^^14:46
slaweqlajoskatona: You will add this topic to the PTG, correct?14:46
viveknarasimhanralonsoh: we can share the prototype code14:46
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ralonsohperfect, that will provide some answers to amotoki questions14:46
lajoskatonaslaweq: yes, I started to list these with links, and manubr can add details where it can14:46
lajoskatonabe14:46
mlavalleso it would be very helpful if we start working on a spec that helps us to envision these 5G use cases in more detail14:46
viveknarasimhanthe demo recording link shows you how an ISP-hosted-user is able to access a VNF neutron primary IP that is backed by Neutron Gateway Router14:47
mlavalleand discuss them in the specing process14:47
viveknarasimhansimply through enhanced Neutron BGPaas14:47
viveknarasimhanplease feel free to keeps questions posted in the RFE14:47
slaweqthis indeed seems like very interesting idea for me14:47
viveknarasimhanmlavalle:  as we speak here, we are expanding the spec to provide more context to enable better collaboration14:48
mlavalleI would be ok +1 the RFE with the understanding that we are going to have a written spec14:48
slaweqand I'm ok to approve that rfe as a concept, and later discuss details of the implementation in the spec and code review really14:48
amotokiit is an interestiing idea. in my understanding, the main heart of this proposal is to make a neutron router a BGP router which can talk with routers on both external/internal networks.14:48
mlavallethat we discuss and refine in gerrit14:48
viveknarasimhanamotoki: you caught this 100% right :)14:48
amotokihopefully the spec can simplify what you would like to achieve.14:48
viveknarasimhanamotoki:  yes, we will take your and community guidance on the same14:49
amotokiI am okay with this RFE and the spec would help us understand it more.14:49
viveknarasimhanamotoki: the last I have worked in Openstack neutron was for Distributed Router and now its full circle for us doing Centralized-BGP-enabled-Router :)14:50
slaweqralonsoh: haleyb: any comments? seems like only You didn't vote yet :)14:50
ralonsoh+1 to the RFE and waiting for this spec14:50
haleybno comments, +1 from me just haven't read it all yet14:51
manubkan initial spec is ready https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/neutron-specs/+/783791/11/specs/wallaby/bgpaas-enhancements.rst14:51
slaweqok, so I will mark rfe as approved14:51
slaweqthx for the proposal viveknarasimhan and manubk14:51
slaweqplease now work on the spec and then implementation of that feature14:51
viveknarasimhanslaweq: thanks to the community for giving us this opportunity14:52
manubksure, thanks14:52
slaweqthat's all what I have for today14:52
slaweqso I will give You few minutes back today14:52
slaweqthx a lot and have a great weekend14:52
slaweqo/14:52
ralonsohbye, have a nice weekend14:52
slaweq#endmeeting14:52
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/"14:52
openstackMeeting ended Fri Apr  9 14:52:45 2021 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:52
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2021/neutron_drivers.2021-04-09-14.01.html14:52
lajoskatonao/14:52
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2021/neutron_drivers.2021-04-09-14.01.txt14:52
mlavalleviveknarasimhan, manubk: yeah, great proposal. Thanks14:52
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2021/neutron_drivers.2021-04-09-14.01.log.html14:52
rubasovo/14:52
amotokithanks all!14:52
mlavalleo/14:53
viveknarasimhanthanks to mlavalle, amotoki, haleyb, lajos, ralonsoh , lajoskatona14:53
gibi\o14:53
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