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| slaweq | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Mar 19 14:00:54 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slaweq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 14:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:01 |
| johnsom | o/ | 14:01 |
| slaweq | o/ | 14:01 |
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| haleyb | hi | 14:01 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:01 |
| johnsom | It has been a while since I attended a drivers meeting. | 14:01 |
| mlavalle | we've missed you | 14:01 |
| slaweq | johnsom: welcome (back) :) | 14:01 |
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| johnsom | lol | 14:01 |
| johnsom | I thought I should join for the designate related RFE topics. | 14:02 |
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| slaweq | johnsom: that's great, thx for joining | 14:03 |
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| Carlotronics | hi | 14:03 |
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| lajoskatona | Hi | 14:03 |
| slaweq | #topic RFEs | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:04 | |
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| slaweq | maybe we can wait few more minutes for amotoki yamamoto and njohnston | 14:04 |
| slaweq | before we will start | 14:04 |
| mlavalle | amotoki is here | 14:05 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:05 |
| slaweq | true | 14:05 |
| slaweq | I somehow missed You | 14:05 |
| slaweq | sorry amotoki | 14:05 |
| amotoki | I already said here :) | 14:05 |
| amotoki | np | 14:05 |
| slaweq | so I think we can start | 14:05 |
| slaweq | rfe to discuss today | 14:05 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1904559 | 14:06 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1904559 in neutron "Designate driver: allow_reverse_dns_lookup doesn't works if dns_domain zone wasn't created" [Wishlist,New] | 14:06 |
| slaweq | thx johnsom for comments there | 14:06 |
| johnsom | My concern here is the current Designate integration weighs heavily on the forward zone for authorization. Decoupling that would mean we would likely want to do a significant rewrite. | 14:07 |
| johnsom | Current PTR integration for neutron manages the PTR zones using the service account defined in neutron.conf [designate] | 14:08 |
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| mlavalle | what would be the outline of a new way to integrate with Designate? | 14:11 |
| slaweq | so IIUC that rfe would require rewrite a lot of the neutron's part of dns integration, right? | 14:11 |
| slaweq | but it don't require significant changes on designate side? is that correct? | 14:12 |
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| johnsom | Well, to avoid a case where anyone could create a port that adds a PTR record for any IP (valid)/domain, we would need to switch to validating that the user project creating the port has permission to create the PTR record in the zone in designate. | 14:12 |
| johnsom | slaweq Correct. | 14:12 |
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| johnsom | To me, this seems to complicate the integration for the benefit of automating one PTR create call direct to designate for this edge case. | 14:13 |
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| johnsom | mlavalle At least that is one proposal I came up with. There may be other approaches | 14:14 |
| slaweq | so based on Your comment I think that maybe we should reject that RFE | 14:16 |
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| slaweq | as it seems that effort and potential risks are too big according to the use case | 14:16 |
| mlavalle | mhhhh | 14:16 |
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| mlavalle | the integration follows and extension and driver approach | 14:17 |
| johnsom | It is certainly more involved than the proposed patch that decouples the forward zone. | 14:17 |
| mlavalle | if we can somehow isolate the new approach in a separate driver and the submitter is willing to do the work | 14:18 |
| johnsom | From a security perspective, PTR records are used to stop spam, some involved TLS certificate validation, etc. | 14:18 |
| mlavalle | that way we preserve and don't put at risk what we have and let this use case go ahead | 14:19 |
| johnsom | Sure, an alternate driver is an option. | 14:19 |
| slaweq | mlavalle: but if that would be separate driver, it don't need to be in neutron tree, right? | 14:19 |
| mlavalle | why not? | 14:19 |
| mlavalle | I wouldn't mind it to be in our tree | 14:20 |
| mlavalle | just isolated | 14:20 |
| slaweq | ok | 14:20 |
| mlavalle | self contained is a better way to put it | 14:20 |
| johnsom | It could also be a setting that changes the PTR authentication model. | 14:20 |
| johnsom | And lots of docs... lol | 14:21 |
| mlavalle | so we could conditionally approve this RFE and make it subject to a spec | 14:21 |
| mlavalle | see if we can spec it out | 14:21 |
| johnsom | +1 for a spec | 14:21 |
| slaweq | +! | 14:21 |
| slaweq | +1 | 14:21 |
| mlavalle | and yes, as the wisemnan of Oregon said above, lots of docs | 14:21 |
| johnsom | grin | 14:22 |
| amotoki | I am okay for a spec (I am in a way to understand this) | 14:22 |
| slaweq | so I will mark rfe as approved as a concept and we will continue discussion about details in the spec's review | 14:22 |
| slaweq | ok for You? | 14:22 |
| johnsom | +1 | 14:22 |
| mlavalle | +1 | 14:23 |
| amotoki | +1 | 14:23 |
| haleyb | +1 | 14:23 |
| slaweq | ok, that's done | 14:23 |
| slaweq | thx | 14:23 |
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| slaweq | as we have Carlotronics here maybe we can talk als about second designate related rfe | 14:23 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1918424 | 14:23 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1918424 in neutron "[RFE] RFC 2317 support in Neutron with designate provider" [Wishlist,New] | 14:23 |
| slaweq | where johnsom asked some questions recently | 14:24 |
| johnsom | This one I feel like I need more information about the use case. | 14:24 |
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| johnsom | As I mentioned above, the current Designate integration model is for PTR records to be "owned" by neutron. It abstracts the PTR zones completely and automatically creates the parent zone for an IP address if it doesn't exist today. This allows any IP to be properly handled without the RFC2317 strategy. | 14:26 |
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| slaweq | Carlotronics: did You saw johnsom's comments about Your RFE? | 14:28 |
| slaweq | I think You were disconnected for some time | 14:29 |
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| Carlotronics | slaweq Yes I saw it, but I do not understand but I don't understand the relation; the problem exposed in the RFE is precisely that we can't currently have PTR on non octet-boundary zones | 14:30 |
| Carlotronics | my internet connection is not very stable | 14:31 |
| johnsom | Carlotronics How would you end up with a non-octet-boundary zone with the current designate integration? | 14:32 |
| Carlotronics | I would let Neutron create it by specifying ipv4_ptr_zone and ipv4_ptr_record_template as stated in the rfe | 14:33 |
| johnsom | The integration currently creates any required parent zone, sized to the prefix defined in the neutron.conf. You may end up with zones in Designate that a bigger than the subnet, but they are shared by the integration plugin. | 14:33 |
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| johnsom | I understand the proposal, I'm just not understanding the need or use case for this. | 14:34 |
| Carlotronics | our use case is that our provider delegates us a /25, thus we cannot use the whole rDNS zone for it because it is already manager by our provider | 14:35 |
| johnsom | Is this really about slicing up reverse zones, some are managed by neutron/Designate and some that are outside the cloud? | 14:36 |
| Carlotronics | johnsom yes, and as far as I understand (but I could be wrong, I don't have much experience) rfc2317 is all about that | 14:38 |
| johnsom | Ok, would you mind adding this use case example to the RFE? It was clear the proposed solution, but not the use case behind it. | 14:38 |
| Carlotronics | johnsom sure, I'll do it | 14:39 |
| johnsom | Carlotronics Yes. What mechanism would put the 0-25 records in the parent provider zone? | 14:39 |
| johnsom | That would not be automated under this proposal right? There would be a required prerequisite step or two. | 14:40 |
| Carlotronics | I hadn't thought about it. I'd be inclined to say it fills the area by hand, but maybe @Mareo could help me with that | 14:40 |
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| Carlotronics | johnsom no, this proposal would no be of any help on provider side (for setting CNAME and NS to 0-25 zone) | 14:41 |
| johnsom | Ok, yeah. So I think we should discuss those steps. | 14:41 |
| slaweq | johnsom: do You think we should have spec for that one too? | 14:42 |
| johnsom | I hate to say it, but I would lean towards a spec on this one as well, just to capture the required workflow such that we can document it clearly. | 14:42 |
| johnsom | slaweq You are a mind reader | 14:42 |
| slaweq | :) | 14:42 |
| slaweq | so I propose that we can also approve the rfe and next step will be spec with details to review | 14:43 |
| slaweq | ok? | 14:43 |
| johnsom | Otherwise we could have zones that don't work if the prerequisite steps were not completed. | 14:43 |
| johnsom | +1 from me | 14:43 |
| amotoki | yeah, +1 for a spec to clarify the whole picture including prerequisites. Prerequisites and assumptions look important part in this RFE. | 14:44 |
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| Mareo | johnsom, I don't understand, if you are able to put records in the parent zone, you do not need this mechanism at all | 14:45 |
| Mareo | this RFE is targeted specifically for the case when the parent zone is managed by another entity than the one managing the openstack cluster | 14:46 |
| Mareo | For instance wikimedia had the same issue : https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Portal:Cloud_VPS/Admin/DNS/Designate#dns-floating-ip-updater | 14:47 |
| johnsom | Mareo So, as the RFE is written, the parent reverse zone, 2.0.192.in-addr.arpa. would require a NS record and a CNAME record for every potential IP in the /25 be pre-created. Then the integration would manage the 0-25 zone and map the IP to the xyz.example.com. reverse record. | 14:47 |
| Mareo | yes, this is exactly what rfc 2317 is about | 14:48 |
| johnsom | Mareo So, all of those CNAME records must be created in the parent zone my some means. | 14:48 |
| risson | yes but that's the provider's job, it has nothing to do with designate/neutron | 14:49 |
| risson | hi btw! | 14:49 |
| johnsom | Mareo This is the prerequisite requirements I am commenting need to be captured and documented since the integration will not (per the current proposal) automate that. | 14:49 |
| risson | it's virtually impossible to automate it | 14:50 |
| risson | but yes, it indeed requires some documentation | 14:50 |
| Mareo | I agree with the need to have some documentation | 14:50 |
| johnsom | Lots of folks have interesting duct tape and bubble gum solutions to things... grin | 14:50 |
| slaweq | so do we really need a spec before implementation? or simply documentation update together with implementation patch would be enough? | 14:51 |
| johnsom | In my opinion, the RFE does not clearly define the "included in integration" and "prerequisites"/workflow. This is what we can clarify in the spec such that all that is needed gets documented. | 14:52 |
| slaweq | I'm fine with that | 14:53 |
| slaweq | so are You all ok with my earlier proposal - approve the rfe and to have spec as next step? | 14:53 |
| mlavalle | +1 | 14:53 |
| amotoki | +1 from me | 14:54 |
| amotoki | we need the whole picture in a spec to clarify what we need. | 14:54 |
| johnsom | +1 I am in favor of a spec (doesn't have to be the full docs obviously) | 14:54 |
| haleyb | +1 | 14:54 |
| johnsom | This can also solidify the changes needed on the Designate side to accommodate the hyphen, etc. | 14:55 |
| slaweq | ok, thx | 14:55 |
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| slaweq | so we have an agreement | 14:55 |
| slaweq | Carlotronics: can You write spec for that now? | 14:55 |
| johnsom | Carlontronics I will help with the spec as well. | 14:55 |
| slaweq | we are almost on top of the hour | 14:56 |
| slaweq | so I just wanted to quickly ask You about checking https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/neutron/+/780978 | 14:57 |
| Carlotronics | slaweq yes, I will work on it. thanks johnsom for the offer | 14:57 |
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| slaweq | Carlotronics: thx | 14:57 |
| slaweq | we talked about that patch on Tuesday's meeting already | 14:57 |
| slaweq | but I'm not sure if we really should relax those new policies | 14:57 |
| amotoki | slaweq: I will add my reply soon. I am catching up the discussion on project with system-scoped token. | 14:57 |
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| slaweq | as they are "opt-in" for users, so by default old behaviour will still be the same as was until now | 14:57 |
| slaweq | amotoki: thx | 14:58 |
| slaweq | btw. I want to add release not to the wallaby release notes about those new secure rbac policies | 14:58 |
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| slaweq | but I will highlight it as experimental feature for now | 14:58 |
| slaweq | I hope You are fine with it | 14:58 |
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| slaweq | and last think from me | 14:59 |
| slaweq | please add patches from list | 14:59 |
| slaweq | https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:%2522secure-rbac%2522+status:open+project:openstack/neutron | 14:59 |
| slaweq | to Your review list :) | 14:59 |
| slaweq | thx in advance | 14:59 |
| slaweq | and that's all from me for today | 14:59 |
| slaweq | thx for attending the meeting | 14:59 |
| slaweq | have a great weekend | 15:00 |
| slaweq | o/ | 15:00 |
| slaweq | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| lajoskatona | o/ | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Mar 19 15:00:09 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2021/neutron_drivers.2021-03-19-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2021/neutron_drivers.2021-03-19-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2021/neutron_drivers.2021-03-19-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
| amotoki | have a great weekend o/ | 15:00 |
| Carlotronics | o/ | 15:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 15:00 |
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