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| yoshito-ito | hi | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| yasufum | hi, tacker team | 08:01 |
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| LiangLu | hi | 08:02 |
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| manpreet | hi | 08:04 |
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| yasufum | hi | 08:05 |
| yasufum | #startmeeting tacker | 08:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 08:05:46 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yasufum. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 08:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tacker' | 08:05 |
| yasufum | There is no topic today on our etherpad | 08:07 |
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| yasufum | Do you have anything to discuss? | 08:07 |
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| LiangLu | I have 1 topic to discuss, would like to hear opinions from you, could I go on? | 08:08 |
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| yasufum | please go ahead | 08:09 |
| LiangLu | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tacker-meeting#286 | 08:09 |
| LiangLu | sorry for write on Etherpad late.. This is a topic about Backward compatibility for patch https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/tacker/+/768091 | 08:10 |
| LiangLu | in this patch we are trying to refactoring legacy action-driver code, to support SOL-001 based VNFLCM interfaces | 08:11 |
| LiangLu | also we are trying to make sure user are using tacker's mgmt-driver(like kubernetes.py) in their package, by checking hash value. | 08:12 |
| LiangLu | however, this patch will also make legacy action types like ACTION_SCALE_IN_VNF not run anymore since wo changed mgmt calling method in vnflcm_driver | 08:14 |
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| LiangLu | this makes incompletely backward compatibility.. And here what I want to discuss is, should this change keep legacy actions support? | 08:15 |
| LiangLu | my opinions are: 1. we should or we are excepted to support SOL-001 based interfaces, 2. It is not a long time since legacy code released(in Victoria), so maybe it is a good timing to do a complete refactoring now. | 08:19 |
| LiangLu | that's all | 08:20 |
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| yoshito-ito | I understand the point is; The scale operation in SOL-implementation calls legacy-MgmtDriver. This will be refactored to call your new MgmtDriver for SOL. | 08:22 |
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| yoshito-ito | I remember we discussed the design of new MgmtDriver for SOL-implementation in the previous PTG, and my opinion was to create completely new one. | 08:23 |
| yoshito-ito | Because the methods for new MgmtDriver are different from legacy. | 08:23 |
| yoshito-ito | So I agree. | 08:23 |
| yoshito-ito | https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/Tacker-PTG-Wallaby | 08:24 |
| yoshito-ito | L183 | 08:24 |
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| yoshito-ito | takahashi-tsc is not here today? | 08:25 |
| LiangLu | thanks for opinion! | 08:26 |
| tsukasasa | takahashi-tsc is attending another meeting. | 08:28 |
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| yasufum | I am not opposite to your proposal | 08:30 |
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| takahashi-tsc | Hi, sorry for very late... | 08:30 |
| yasufum | but you should revise your patch | 08:30 |
| yasufum | hi | 08:30 |
| yoshito-ito | hi takahashi-san | 08:31 |
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| yoshito-ito | please find https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tacker-meeting#286 | 08:31 |
| takahashi-tsc | Thanks, I read meeting log and understand that we are talking about Mgmt Driver. | 08:32 |
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| yasufum | do you have any comments? | 08:35 |
| takahashi-tsc | I remember that our conclusion in PTG is to create new one for SOL. In my opinion, it is better to divide. | 08:39 |
| yasufum | LiangLu: What do you think? | 08:43 |
| LiangLu | thanks for opinion, I think we don't need to fix patch to support legacy interfaces(is already modified in current patch) | 08:46 |
| LiangLu | and also may I ask what else should we revise for patch? | 08:46 |
| yasufum | You are proposing this topic because Itsuro suggested to discuss here, right? | 08:47 |
| yasufum | If so, you should add an explanation in docs or so as he advised at least. | 08:47 |
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| yasufum | In addition, you do not make clear about backward compatibility | 08:48 |
| yasufum | keep the legacy one, or discard, or so... | 08:49 |
| yasufum | I do not understand your point discussed from your current patch actually | 08:49 |
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| yasufum | Itsuro also suggested to make a decision at this IRC meeting. I agree with him. | 08:50 |
| LiangLu | thanks for suggestion, my opinion is to discard legacy codes, I will add this part to docs/commit message | 08:54 |
| yasufum | takahashi-tsc: I am not sure about your comment, “it is better to divide”. It means the same as LiangLu? | 08:56 |
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| takahashi-tsc | Sorry for ambiguous, I said just to create new MgmtDriver feature for SOL. And "Discard legacy or not" seems another discussion | 08:58 |
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| yasufum | thanks | 09:00 |
| takahashi-tsc | In my opinion, we should not discard legacy suddenly(e.g. W-release), so we should make some docs to explain. | 09:01 |
| takahashi-tsc | And separately, we discuss and decide the strategy about legacy code. | 09:02 |
| yoshito-ito | Let me correct the point of discussion | 09:02 |
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| yoshito-ito | LiangLu doesn't propose discarding of Legacy Mgmt-Driver | 09:03 |
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| yoshito-ito | He is just trying to drop the unintentional logic of calling legacy-MgmtDriver in the SOL scale operation. | 09:03 |
| yoshito-ito | As we discussed in PTG, we agreed to have different MgmtDrivers for legacy and SOL. But we found that the scale operation supported in V-release has a logic calling legacy MgmtDriver. | 09:05 |
| LiangLu | thanks for explanation! | 09:05 |
| yoshito-ito | I'm not sure why that is there, but the point is that I think we can drop the unintentional logic related to legacy MgmtDriver in SOL scale operation. | 09:06 |
| takahashi-tsc | Understood... I agree with LiangLu SOL operation should not call legacy-MgmtDriver. | 09:07 |
| LiangLu | sorry for make things ambiguous, the conflict part(sol/legacy) is in vnflcm, calling scale operation, in the patch we are modifying to call SOL operation | 09:09 |
| yasufum | I am still not sure about “3rd-party drivers” discussed while reviewing. | 09:10 |
| yasufum | Is it not included in your scope of the change actually? | 09:11 |
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| yasufum | anyway, we don’t have time today. | 09:17 |
| LiangLu | should we continue discuss on patch reviews? | 09:17 |
| yasufum | LiangLu: please continue on gerrit if you have no comment now | 09:17 |
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| yasufum | or make it clear shortly if possible | 09:18 |
| LiangLu | I think it is better to continue in reviews | 09:19 |
| yasufum | OK, thanks | 09:19 |
| LiangLu | sorry for taking long time.. | 09:20 |
| yasufum | I would like to ask you to update your patch first. | 09:20 |
| yasufum | Thanks everyone | 09:20 |
| yasufum | I would like to close this meeting | 09:20 |
| yasufum | bye | 09:20 |
| yoshito-ito | bye | 09:20 |
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| masazumi-ota | bye | 09:21 |
| takahashi-tsc | thanks | 09:21 |
| yasufum | #endmeeting | 09:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 09:21 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 09:21:08 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:21 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2021/tacker.2021-02-02-08.05.html | 09:21 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2021/tacker.2021-02-02-08.05.txt | 09:21 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2021/tacker.2021-02-02-08.05.log.html | 09:21 |
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| oneswig | #startmeeting scientific-sig | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 21:00:20 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-sig)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_sig' | 21:00 |
| oneswig | hey martial | 21:00 |
| trandles | hi oneswig martial | 21:00 |
| oneswig | #chair martial | 21:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: martial oneswig | 21:00 |
| oneswig | greetings trandles | 21:00 |
| martial | hello Stig, Tim | 21:01 |
| oneswig | Is everyone well? | 21:01 |
| trandles | fine here, thanks | 21:01 |
| oneswig | The exciting news here is that the South African coronavirus mutation has arrived in our town. Only 11 cases but obviously a concern... | 21:02 |
| trandles | :( | 21:02 |
| oneswig | I will watch with great interest how things develop | 21:03 |
| trandles | it's not been too bad here, but we're still not going out except exercise in the neighborhood and to shop | 21:03 |
| martial | same here | 21:03 |
| oneswig | same here, I don't get out much nowadays. | 21:04 |
| oneswig | In theory this gives plenty of time for OpenStack tinkering though, eh.. | 21:05 |
| trandles | I've been doing a lot with Ironic lately. Friday I go into the office to do some network cabling on what will be our first production RHOSP deployment. | 21:06 |
| martial | any discoveries? | 21:06 |
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| oneswig | trandles: nice! Is it multi-tenant networking? | 21:07 |
| oneswig | ... and will you try out that ramdisk deployment driver? | 21:07 |
| trandles | multi-tenant in what way? | 21:07 |
| trandles | we've been using ramdisk deployment a lot | 21:08 |
| trandles | as can be expected, ironic just works for the most part...building, configuring, maintaining your images is the real work | 21:09 |
| oneswig | multi-tenant in the use of vlans for tenant network isolation | 21:09 |
| oneswig | Good to hear about the ramdisk driver in use. That's fantastic. | 21:09 |
| trandles | ah, that multi-tenant networking...yes | 21:09 |
| trandles | TBH the last deployment I did prior to switching to RHOSP was OVS/OVN and I'm not entirely opposed to that. If you don't care about the performance hit, it works fairly well. | 21:10 |
| trandles | OVS/OVN is a LOT to get your head around though. | 21:11 |
| trandles | Ironic ramdisk deployment was, almost literally, enroll->config->deploy->nothing to see here. It just works. | 21:12 |
| oneswig | We've had some fun with it here this week, for Manila with the CephFS native driver and converged Ceph. A tricky combination that appears to expose some curious problems with OVN network reachability. | 21:12 |
| oneswig | trandles: with the ramdisk, how much RAM do you recommend for a "typical" Linux deploy? Does the RAM requirement grow or does it reach a steady-state? | 21:13 |
| trandles | So that's a hot topic internally. It depends entirely on what you're doing with your image and what other services you have to support your deployment (e.g., do you keep any logs locally?). | 21:15 |
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| trandles | I think we're going to end up with Ironic ramdisk deploy and NFSROOT | 21:16 |
| oneswig | Does your deployment "descend" to disk for filesystem components like /var? | 21:16 |
| oneswig | ah, right, nfsroot. A pivot root during bootup? | 21:16 |
| trandles | Luckily we have a long history of running all our clusters without any local disks. | 21:16 |
| oneswig | That's a big simplifier, I'm sure. Apart from for the network-attached storage | 21:17 |
| trandles | So we already have configurations and tooling (cfengine but moving to ansible) so that we can have little to very little use of things like /var for PID files, etc. | 21:17 |
| trandles | we don't have a single compute node with any local storage right now, all persistent storage is remotely mounted | 21:18 |
| oneswig | Very neat. | 21:18 |
| oneswig | Having been working on hypervisors with ~36 aging disks in each recently, I see your green grass. | 21:19 |
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| trandles | we treat our compute like expensive cattle, not pets | 21:21 |
| oneswig | ... you barbecue them? :-) | 21:21 |
| trandles | expensive in that as much as each node can be an exact clone of the rest we're happy...performance-wise | 21:21 |
| trandles | if you're a laggard you're not going to last long | 21:21 |
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| trandles | anyone have experience with Ironic's ansible deployment interface? | 21:22 |
| oneswig | trandles: hardware-cardiff is an interesting project for that. We've used it on Ironic inspection data to identify nodes that are (for whatever reason) 10% slower than the herd on a simple benchmark. | 21:22 |
| trandles | is it more than just an automatic way to launch a playbook? | 21:22 |
| martial | what does it do? | 21:23 |
| oneswig | haven't used the ansible deployment interface, alas. | 21:23 |
| trandles | https://docs.openstack.org/ironic/victoria/admin/drivers/ansible.html | 21:24 |
| oneswig | We tried it's big sister the Ansible networking driver, but it was *significantly* slower than the networking-generic-switch driver. | 21:25 |
| oneswig | Are you using the ansible deployment interface, or interested in trying it? | 21:26 |
| trandles | I'm just looking for anyone's experiences with it. | 21:28 |
| trandles | we're going to ansiblize the whole damn place and I wonder if it's worth spending time looking into | 21:28 |
| trandles | my problem is I have next to no "free" time to experiment right now :( | 21:28 |
| oneswig | We've had some fun recently running Ansible playbooks inside diskimage-builder builds. If you want to Ansiblize all the things, how about that :-) | 21:29 |
| trandles | another option, and one we're probably going to use | 21:30 |
| trandles | image question: has anyone tried to export a VM from something like RHV and then deploy the qcow2 using Ironic? | 21:31 |
| trandles | it appears the image is broken in some way (partitioning?) that causes ironic to fail deploying | 21:31 |
| trandles | I haven't actually looked at it, but a colleague has been struggling with it. | 21:32 |
| oneswig | ooh, well that sounds like a proper tasty problem. | 21:35 |
| oneswig | I wonder if you get out a partition image that gets treated as a whole-disk image, or vice versa. The second avenue to explore would be whether the virt image has had all those pesky hardware drivers purged from it. | 21:36 |
| jmlowe | that sounds a bit odd, the image should be a bitwise copy, I wonder if he just needs to convert it to raw or something | 21:36 |
| trandles | something like "deploy_step: write-image: unable to find a valid partition table" yet if he uses parted to print the disk in VM form he gets a table with a partition for /boot and another for LVM | 21:37 |
| oneswig | I'm quite amused by the "cold migration" of Ironic nodes | 21:37 |
| oneswig | Hi jmlowe :-) | 21:38 |
| jmlowe | also, could be some efi boot shenanigans | 21:38 |
| jmlowe | hi | 21:38 |
| trandles | jmlowe: I suggested he switch the hardware from UEFI to BIOS but that didn't fix it | 21:38 |
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| oneswig | if it's failing to write the data to the disk, that's probably next week's problem... | 21:38 |
| jmlowe | I'm pretty sure it wouldn't ever boot in UEFI from a stock cloud image | 21:38 |
| oneswig | IIRC we build an IPA deploy image with some extra packages to get it working. But the error above seems more fundamental than firmware variety | 21:40 |
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| trandles | we can build and deploy all kinds of images using DIB, but we're trying to deploy RHV hypervisors with Ironic and all we have is an RHV iso | 21:42 |
| trandles | doesn't look like RHAT provides a qcow2 for RHV hypervisors like they do for normal RHEL | 21:42 |
| trandles | *RHV install ISO that is, not a bootable runnable ISO virt media image | 21:43 |
| oneswig | trandles: interesting... the SuperCloud-style Ironic-deployed hypervisors is something we've been spending a bit of time with recently too. | 21:43 |
| trandles | what flavor hypervisors? | 21:43 |
| oneswig | Well its standard CentOS images with KVM deployed using Kolla-Ansible. To operate as Nova compute resource. | 21:44 |
| trandles | ah | 21:44 |
| oneswig | In this model, we have this kind of mezzanine between undercloud and overcloud, where Nova's hypervisors live. | 21:45 |
| oneswig | It all gets very Escher | 21:45 |
| martial | seems scary honestly at this point :) | 21:45 |
| oneswig | I have only been involved at arms length but from what I've heard it's simpler than other ways of partitioning virt and bare metal in a dynamic fashion. | 21:46 |
| trandles | I'll be asking questions about that eventually. I already have customers who want us to implement something like SuperCloud | 21:47 |
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| oneswig | Where's janders when you need him :-) | 21:50 |
| trandles | sleeping...I bug him in #openstack-ironic all the time ;) | 21:50 |
| trandles | Anyone have any info about upcoming summits? The openstack.org/summit page has nothing for the future | 21:52 |
| janders | hmm... my ears are burning | 21:52 |
| trandles | \o/ | 21:52 |
| oneswig | Hey janders, g'day! | 21:52 |
| janders | g'day ! | 21:52 |
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| oneswig | We were reminiscing on SuperCloud - actually on the nova-on-ironic stuff you were doing. | 21:53 |
| * janders is reading through history | 21:53 | |
| janders | very cool! :) | 21:54 |
| oneswig | This machine is built that way: https://www.top500.org/system/179908/ | 21:56 |
| janders | excellent | 21:56 |
| janders | what is the lay of the land around this these days? any interesting catches? | 21:56 |
| oneswig | It's early days but the virt component has been up to ~275 nodes and down to 6 | 21:56 |
| janders | that is a great result! | 21:57 |
| martial | nice | 21:57 |
| oneswig | The main catch I think has been the bit you left as an exercise to the reader - ethernet | 21:57 |
| janders | I remember having to do a bit of hacking with cleaning up repurposed hypervisors, otherwise there were some side effects | 21:57 |
| janders | but it was relatively easy (some cli commands in hypervisor un-provsioning playbook) | 21:58 |
| janders | hmm... what's the challenge with ethernet? | 21:58 |
| oneswig | The hypervisor's more rich networking config is applied via Ansible. All the trunks, VLANs, LAGs, etc. | 21:58 |
| oneswig | You had it so easy with IB :-) | 21:58 |
| janders | haha! | 21:58 |
| janders | so - no NEO-like SDN in the Ethernet approach? | 21:59 |
| oneswig | Alas nothing like that. | 21:59 |
| janders | given we're running out of time, I propose "SuperClouds in 2021" as a topic for discussion in two weeks time | 21:59 |
| janders | (I have a meeting clash with the other SIG time slot) | 22:00 |
| janders | would that work? | 22:00 |
| oneswig | Sounds good to me. | 22:00 |
| janders | excellent! I'm curious what are you guys up to in this area | 22:00 |
| oneswig | Tell those other people you have a priority janders :-) | 22:00 |
| oneswig | OK, better wrap up. Any final comments? | 22:00 |
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| oneswig | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 22:01:24 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2021/scientific_sig.2021-02-02-21.00.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2021/scientific_sig.2021-02-02-21.00.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_sig/2021/scientific_sig.2021-02-02-21.00.log.html | 22:01 |
| oneswig | thanks y'all, until next time | 22:01 |
| janders | thank you all! | 22:01 |
| trandles | later | 22:03 |
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