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| stephen-ma | hello | 13:51 |
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| slaweq | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Feb 7 14:00:04 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slaweq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 14:00 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:00 |
| ralonsoh | hi | 14:00 |
| yamamoto | hii | 14:00 |
| hjensas | o/ | 14:00 |
| stephen-ma | hi | 14:00 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:00 |
| slaweq | I think we have quorum already so lets start | 14:01 |
| slaweq | #topic RFEs | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:01 | |
| amotoki | hi | 14:01 |
| slaweq | as we have hjensas here, lets start with his rfe | 14:01 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1861032 | 14:01 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1861032 in neutron "[RFE] Add support for configuring dnsmasq with multiple IPv6 addresses in same subnet on same port" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Harald Jensås (harald-jensas) | 14:01 |
| hjensas | hi, so this is still pending the actual functionality being merged in dnsmasq. But the last update for Simon was that he is working on a rewrite of the patch I proposed. | 14:03 |
| hjensas | In neutron the requirement is a change in the dnsmasq driver, to write the new config. I have a early review up for that: https://review.opendev.org/704436 | 14:03 |
| slaweq | for me this rfe is pretty straight forward when new functionality will be merged and release in dnsmasq | 14:05 |
| slaweq | but hjensas do You think we could e.g. bump min required dnsmasq version or e.g. do some sanity check like https://github.com/openstack/neutron/blob/master/neutron/cmd/sanity/checks.py#L46 | 14:05 |
| slaweq | and simply warn users that this will not be supported on older versions | 14:06 |
| slaweq | instead of adding new config knob? | 14:06 |
| hjensas | if we write the new config format on old dnsmasq the server won't start. As it will interpret the list if IPv6 addresses as one bad IPv6 address. | 14:07 |
| njohnston | what if an older version of dnsmasq needs to be run for other reasons | 14:07 |
| ralonsoh | we need this config knob and the sanity check for now | 14:07 |
| njohnston | I agree | 14:07 |
| slaweq | can't we e.g. try to discover dnsmasq version in the driver? | 14:08 |
| slaweq | it shouldn't be hard | 14:08 |
| slaweq | we have dnsmasq version check in sanity checks so we could reuse it | 14:08 |
| amotoki | can we expect distros can support the expected dnsmasq versions in same neutron releases? | 14:08 |
| haleyb | yeah, and running dnsmasq --version might not be perfect either as distros backport things | 14:08 |
| slaweq | ahh, backports, ok | 14:08 |
| slaweq | so it seems that config option will be the best solution here | 14:09 |
| haleyb | what about OVN? :) | 14:09 |
| njohnston | haleyb: that was my next question :-) | 14:09 |
| hjensas | the problem with discovering the version is downstream packaging. i.e we may have 2.80? in CentOS 8, that will stay 2.80 but we may pick features from 2.81 in packaging. | 14:10 |
| amotoki | so my question does not matter? | 14:10 |
| slaweq | to me this seems for me like dnsmasq driver specific rfe, so it's not related to ovn at all | 14:10 |
| slaweq | amotoki: I think we can't expect what versions of dnsmasq will be supported in which distro | 14:11 |
| haleyb | slaweq: i was more wondering if OVN will also only give a lease for the first IPv6 address, else it has the same "bug" | 14:11 |
| amotoki | slaweq: so it leads to another question I had. | 14:11 |
| njohnston | right, the question is does OVN DHCP server need to implement the same multiple return that dnsmasq does? | 14:12 |
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| amotoki | if we provide this feature, do we need to provide which feature(s) are avalable in neutron dhcp drivers? | 14:12 |
| hjensas | for OVN I think it depends on if they want to break RFC or not. i.e allow the CLID/IAID's to change and always serve the 1 IPv6 address based on mac. | 14:13 |
| amotoki | IIRC we don't provide available features via the neutron API. If so, API users need to check available features by sending an API request. | 14:14 |
| haleyb | hjensas: do you think we'll ever be using the OVN dhcp driver for Ironic nodes? we did add external port support recently | 14:15 |
| slaweq | amotoki: I don't think this should be discoverable through API | 14:15 |
| hjensas | haleyb: we had not discussion on support OVN in my team that I'm aware of. | 14:16 |
| slaweq | haleyb: for ovn driver we should probably first check if this is supported by ovn and if so, how it should be configured, than we can add support for it in ovn driver if needed | 14:17 |
| slaweq | but maybe it will also require changes on ovn side first | 14:17 |
| hjensas | haleyb: but, as OVN is being used in both openstack and OKD Metal3 etc. it may come up later. | 14:17 |
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| haleyb | slaweq: ack, just didn't want them to diverge if this is the behavior we want | 14:18 |
| slaweq | haleyb: yes, I know | 14:18 |
| amotoki | slaweq: if it depends on dhcp driver, do you mean that API consumers should try API requests to check if a specific feature is avaiable? | 14:19 |
| slaweq | but I understand this rfe more like "adding support for some dnsmasq feature in neutron's dnsmasq driver" | 14:19 |
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| hjensas | both kea and dnsmasq is going for supporting a list of IPv6 addresses for a singe host reservation. | 14:19 |
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| njohnston | I think it makes sense for us to approve this, and note that this is something we need parity on before OVN DHCP can support Ironic | 14:19 |
| slaweq | amotoki: if we would like to go that way, we would probably need another rfe for that | 14:20 |
| slaweq | amotoki: but I'm not sure if we would like to expose something like that for users | 14:20 |
| amotoki | slaweq: what happens if a configured dhcp driver does not support this feature? | 14:20 |
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| slaweq | amotoki: in this case, now dnsmasq will have only first IP address configured to provide via DHCP | 14:21 |
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| slaweq | and IIUC that will be behaviour of driver if operator will not switch this new config option to use "new behaviour" | 14:22 |
| slaweq | hjensas: is that correct? | 14:22 |
| hjensas | slaweq: correct | 14:22 |
| slaweq | amotoki: so in such case user who is using Ironic and Neutron will have some problem as he has now | 14:23 |
| slaweq | IIUC, during the booting of host there may be problems with giving proper IP address to the host | 14:23 |
| slaweq | hjensas: correct? | 14:23 |
| amotoki | slaweq: hjensas: ah, I see. thanks. our current behavior is not enough and we need improvements in a dhcp driver side like dnsmasq. | 14:24 |
| amotoki | sorry that i misunderstood the situation. | 14:24 |
| slaweq | amotoki: that's correct, but this improvement is first needed on dnsmasq side | 14:24 |
| slaweq | than we can add it in our driver | 14:25 |
| amotoki | makes sense now | 14:25 |
| slaweq | and I agree with njohnston to approve this rfe with some note about ovn dhcp (and other potentially) drivers | 14:26 |
| haleyb | we can add this to the features gap document for OVN, i just can't remember if that's in the doc migration or just the spec | 14:26 |
| slaweq | haleyb: it was in the spec only IIRC | 14:26 |
| * haleyb can add the gaps as a .rst after the docs merge | 14:27 | |
| slaweq | haleyb: that is good idea | 14:27 |
| slaweq | so, IMO we can approve this RFE with note that it should be added to ovn gaps doc which haleyb will propose | 14:28 |
| slaweq | are You ok with that? | 14:28 |
| amotoki | looks good | 14:28 |
| njohnston | +1 | 14:29 |
| ralonsoh | +1 | 14:29 |
| haleyb | +1 from me, gaps doc will just be what's in the spec | 14:29 |
| yamamoto | what's OKD Metal3? | 14:29 |
| yamamoto | anyway +1 | 14:30 |
| slaweq | yamamoto: https://metal3.io/blog/2019/06/25/Metal3.html | 14:30 |
| slaweq | I think hjensas was talking about this | 14:30 |
| hjensas | slaweq: yamamoto: yes. | 14:31 |
| * haleyb thought it was a heavy metal rock band :) | 14:31 | |
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| yamamoto | thank you | 14:31 |
| ralonsoh | haleyb, me too! | 14:31 |
| slaweq | lol | 14:31 |
| slaweq | ok, so will be approved | 14:31 |
| slaweq | I will update LP after the meeting | 14:31 |
| slaweq | thx | 14:31 |
| slaweq | lets move on | 14:31 |
| slaweq | next one | 14:31 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1859362 | 14:32 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1859362 in neutron "Neutron accepts arbitrary MTU values for networks" [Wishlist,New] | 14:32 |
| hjensas | thanks everyone. Now I just have to be patient. | 14:32 |
| slaweq | hjensas: so this will not be for sure in Ussuri, right? | 14:32 |
| ralonsoh | I don't know if Jeroen is here | 14:32 |
| slaweq | we can schedule it for V cycle? | 14:32 |
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| slaweq | ok, lets talk about https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1859362 now as we already switched to it :) | 14:35 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1859362 in neutron "Neutron accepts arbitrary MTU values for networks" [Wishlist,New] | 14:35 |
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| slaweq | IMO good summary of this rfe is in comment https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1859362/comments/8 | 14:35 |
| ralonsoh | yes, but those limits are still artificial | 14:35 |
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| ralonsoh | those are the recommended values, but why should we limit this in Neutron? | 14:35 |
| ralonsoh | In c#9, we can see how to limit those values if needed, or change them | 14:36 |
| ralonsoh | just my opinion | 14:36 |
| TomStappaerts | Sorry to butt in but didn't we tackle this already? https://review.opendev.org/#/c/688656 | 14:36 |
| TomStappaerts | Ah I see the ticket requests min values as well | 14:37 |
| slaweq | TomStappaerts: no, I think it's a bit different thing | 14:38 |
| slaweq | and in this rfe reporter wants also to have possibility to set network's mtu to be higher than NeutronGlobalPhysnetMtu | 14:38 |
| slaweq | my concern here is to add yet another 2 config knobs related to the mtu | 14:39 |
| slaweq | we already have "global_physnet_mtu", "physical_network_mtus", "path_mtu" | 14:40 |
| njohnston | I have the same concern. MTU fiddling can lead quickly to madness, and it took so much effort to get this simplified in the past | 14:40 |
| amotoki | is NeutronGlobalPhysnetMtu a config? | 14:40 |
| ralonsoh | amotoki, in tripleO | 14:40 |
| amotoki | ah... | 14:41 |
| slaweq | amotoki: but it's related to "global_physnet_mtu" in Neutron I guess | 14:41 |
| ralonsoh | slaweq, it is | 14:41 |
| ralonsoh | NeutronGlobalPhysnetMtu: {{ overcloud_neutron_global_physnet_mtu }} | 14:41 |
| amotoki | I see | 14:41 |
| amotoki | it sounds good if we can provide consistent MTU value for a network. | 14:42 |
| amotoki | this RFE makes sense from the perspective that we need some consistent MTU check. | 14:42 |
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| njohnston | So the RFE proposes to limit values to 1280-9250, with the upper bound based on the capabilities of current networking equipment. But I don't think we will be the first to know when network equipment evolves to support more than that, nor should w eneed to. | 14:43 |
| ralonsoh | that's the point | 14:43 |
| ralonsoh | there are two proposals | 14:43 |
| ralonsoh | 1) limit the values | 14:43 |
| ralonsoh | 2) ensure the MTU values depending on the physnet mtu (comment #9) | 14:44 |
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| ralonsoh | second one, as amotoki said, makes sense | 14:44 |
| amotoki | I haven't checked whether we need two different configs for tenant net and physnet which depneds on a driver. | 14:44 |
| amotoki | ralonsoh: you are faster than me. | 14:44 |
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| amotoki | mmmm...... I sent incomplete sentence | 14:45 |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: but in LP there is also given use case when vxlan network's mtu is higher than underlaying phys net's mtu | 14:45 |
| ralonsoh | slaweq, from global_physnet_mtu | 14:46 |
| ralonsoh | " For overlay networks ' | 14:46 |
| ralonsoh | 'such as VXLAN, neutron automatically subtracts the ' | 14:46 |
| ralonsoh | 'overlay protocol overhead from this value. Defaults ' | 14:46 |
| ralonsoh | 'to 1500, the standard value for Ethernet." | 14:46 |
| ralonsoh | we can deal with this depending on the overlay protocol | 14:46 |
| slaweq | ralonsoh: yes, but please check comment #8 | 14:47 |
| ralonsoh | slaweq, well the matter here is how to calculate the overhead of the overlay protocol | 14:48 |
| ralonsoh | isn't it? | 14:48 |
| slaweq | I'm not sure tbh | 14:49 |
| haleyb | ralonsoh: i thought we did that already? ip version + overlay header size | 14:49 |
| slaweq | haleyb: yes, that is done in type driver | 14:50 |
| slaweq | but IIUC LP reported of this rfe wants to have possibility to enforce higher mtu for vxlan network in some cases | 14:50 |
| slaweq | so IMO this sounds a bit weird as from the one hand he wants to limit min_mtu to protect users against some "strange things" with too low mtu, but from the other hand he wants to have possibility to set "bad" mtu value for vxlan networks and get very bad performance | 14:51 |
| slaweq | or I'm missing something there :/ | 14:52 |
| njohnston | so what do we lose if we keep the behavior we have right now? In comment #5 the OP says "I'll admit it is a corner case, as nobody in their right mind would pick an MTU that low" - and same applies to too high. I don't think we need to restrict every way that a user could potentially shoot themselves in the foot. | 14:52 |
| slaweq | njohnston: +100 for that :) | 14:52 |
| njohnston | And I am not 100% sure the OP thinks the ability to set the MTU too high to oversubscribe the network is needed, he just sort of thinks it's a neat idea. | 14:53 |
| njohnston | "On the upper side, I actually do see a use case for allowing the MTU to be set higher than the MTU on the underlying physical network. However, network admins would likely still prefer to put an upper bound on the MTU values picked by their tenants, and control whether or not this type of "oversubscription" is allowed on the network." | 14:53 |
| njohnston | that is a pretty ambivalent comment | 14:54 |
| ralonsoh | I think we can ask for a concise and specific RFE description, related to one single problem and maybe a patch showing what he really wants | 14:55 |
| njohnston | I don't see a specific use case that is being advocated for here, just a "let's redesign MTU handling so these theoretical use cases might be used later" and I don't want to whack the MTU beehive just for that | 14:55 |
| njohnston | ralonsoh: +1 | 14:56 |
| slaweq | I agree with You both here | 14:56 |
| haleyb | me too | 14:56 |
| amotoki | ralonsoh: +1 | 14:56 |
| slaweq | and I really don't want to have yet another 2 or more config options related to mtu settings in Neutron :) | 14:56 |
| amotoki | IMHO we can expect operators can configure the right value for their deployments, but it would be great if we can enforce the check for MTU requested by regular users. that's from my experience as an operator | 14:56 |
| -amotoki- still needs more understanding on what this RFE really tries to address | 14:57 | |
| slaweq | ok, we are almost on the top of the hour so lets stop this discussion here, I will write some sum up in the comment to LP and ask for a concise RFE description and exact use case related to this | 14:58 |
| slaweq | and we can get back to it later | 14:58 |
| slaweq | is it ok for You? | 14:58 |
| yamamoto | +1 | 14:58 |
| ralonsoh | +1 | 14:59 |
| njohnston | +1 | 14:59 |
| haleyb | +1 | 14:59 |
| amotoki | +1 | 14:59 |
| slaweq | ok, thx a lot | 14:59 |
| ralonsoh | bye! | 14:59 |
| slaweq | thx for attending | 14:59 |
| slaweq | and have a great weekend | 14:59 |
| slaweq | o/ | 14:59 |
| slaweq | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Feb 7 14:59:34 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| amotoki | thanks. have a nice weekend | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-02-07-14.00.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-02-07-14.00.txt | 14:59 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2020/neutron_drivers.2020-02-07-14.00.log.html | 14:59 |
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