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| slaweq | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Oct 11 14:00:19 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slaweq. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:00 | |
| slaweq | welcome :) | 14:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 14:00 |
| yamamoto | hi | 14:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:00 |
| ileixe_ | o/ | 14:00 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:00 |
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| haleyb | hi | 14:00 |
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| slaweq | we have a quorum already so let's start | 14:02 |
| slaweq | #topic RFEs | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 14:02 | |
| slaweq | first one for today is: | 14:02 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1759790 | 14:02 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1759790 in neutron "[RFE] metric for the route" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Bin Lu (369283883-o) | 14:02 |
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| amotoki | hi | 14:04 |
| * njohnston refamiliarizes myself with FRR | 14:08 | |
| slaweq | any thought about this one? | 14:09 |
| njohnston | What protocol is the route cost being communicated on? MPLS, OSPF, BGP, or something else? | 14:09 |
| amotoki | is it specific to some third-party L3 backend? | 14:09 |
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| amotoki | njohnston: I think 'metric' here is metric in linux routing tables for example. | 14:11 |
| mlavalle | yes | 14:11 |
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| slaweq | amotoki: that is also my understanding | 14:12 |
| amotoki | metrics are populated by routing protocols like OSPF, BGP and so on, but metric is used by the forwarding plane. | 14:12 |
| amotoki | The RFE proposes metric to static routes. | 14:13 |
| mlavalle | yesh, in the bug description it shows the body of a request to /routers/router_id | 14:13 |
| mlavalle | updating the routes attribute | 14:14 |
| mlavalle | adding the metric field | 14:14 |
| njohnston | ok, so in ML2/OVS does that become an openflow then? | 14:14 |
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| amotoki | it sounds reasonable in general. the next question would be about the reference implementation. | 14:15 |
| slaweq | njohnston: I believe that in ML2/OVS case with L3 agent it would be set in qrouter- namespace | 14:15 |
| mlavalle | amotoki's question is important.... there are comments along the history that seem to imply this won't be implemeneted in "namespace" routers | 14:15 |
| mlavalle | I think we should clarify that | 14:16 |
| amotoki | mlavalle: agree | 14:16 |
| mlavalle | as a pure API addition, seems sensible | 14:17 |
| amotoki | Although I haven't checked, linux IP stack supports it, so perhaps it works but it is worth clarifying. | 14:18 |
| mlavalle | there is a metric option in the ip command | 14:18 |
| mlavalle | seems to be the route command: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/route.8.html | 14:21 |
| amotoki | ip route also supports metric https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/8-ip-route/ | 14:22 |
| slaweq | so let's ask in launchpad for clarification of that, if this will be implemented in qrouter namespace, or only as API change which may be consumed by third party L3 drivers | 14:22 |
| slaweq | are You ok with that? | 14:22 |
| mlavalle | + | 14:23 |
| amotoki | +1 | 14:23 |
| yamamoto | +1 | 14:23 |
| haleyb | +1 | 14:23 |
| njohnston | +1 | 14:23 |
| slaweq | do You want to write this question or should I do this? | 14:23 |
| amotoki | slaweq: I can | 14:25 |
| slaweq | amotoki: thx | 14:25 |
| amotoki | I will add it after the meeting | 14:25 |
| slaweq | so I think we can move on to the next one than | 14:25 |
| slaweq | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1845622 | 14:26 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1845622 in neutron "[RFE] Decouple allow_address_pair service with security_group" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 14:26 |
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| njohnston | the use case makes sense to me | 14:29 |
| amotoki | I haven't fully understood the motivation of this request.... I am not sure what is the expected use cases of allowed_address_pairs by this proposal. | 14:30 |
| amotoki | originally allowed_address_pairs extension was introduced to allow a neutron port to have more IPs/subnets along with security groups. | 14:30 |
| mlavalle | I think I saw the submitter join the meeting, ileixe_ | 14:31 |
| amotoki | so I wonder what does the standalone allowed-address-pairs mean. | 14:31 |
| slaweq | amotoki: I think their use case is described in https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1845622/comments/ | 14:31 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1845622 in neutron "[RFE] Decouple allow_address_pair service with security_group" [Wishlist,Confirmed] | 14:31 |
| slaweq | sorry: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1845622/comments/2 | 14:31 |
| slaweq | ileixe_: hi | 14:31 |
| slaweq | ileixe_: do You want to elaborate on use case behind this rfe? | 14:32 |
| njohnston | basically it sounds like they cannot use octavia when enable_security_group=False because that setting disables allowed_address_pair, right? | 14:32 |
| ileixe_ | Yes | 14:32 |
| * mlavalle left comments in another of his submissions last night, so got familiar with the nickname | 14:32 | |
| ileixe_ | Ys to njohnston | 14:32 |
| ileixe_ | hi guys | 14:32 |
| mlavalle | well, no in other comment ileixe_ seems to idndicate they have a workaround | 14:33 |
| mlavalle | with the noop driver | 14:33 |
| ileixe_ | Yes, we had been used like that | 14:33 |
| mlavalle | so why change it | 14:33 |
| mlavalle | ? | 14:33 |
| ileixe_ | Hm.. there were several reasons related to our codes | 14:34 |
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| ileixe_ | but my point is | 14:34 |
| amotoki | ileixe_: what is the root cause that octavia cannot work when enable_security_group=False? Is it just because octavia assumes allowed_address_pairs exist? | 14:35 |
| ileixe_ | Yes for octavia | 14:35 |
| ileixe_ | But I did not assume that allowed_address_pairs directly related to security group | 14:35 |
| ileixe_ | sorry for my slow response | 14:35 |
| ileixe_ | T_ T | 14:35 |
| amotoki | ileixe_: no worries | 14:36 |
| ileixe_ | but if then | 14:36 |
| ileixe_ | it can be invalid | 14:36 |
| ileixe_ | I don't know the extension cames from | 14:36 |
| johnsom | Our amphora driver requires AAP to manage the VIP address. Basically having a second IP on a port. | 14:36 |
| ileixe_ | In fact, we've been used the extension for other purpose | 14:36 |
| mlavalle | johnsom: so it is actually used, right? | 14:37 |
| johnsom | Yes, AAP is always used with the amphora driver. It is not optional. | 14:37 |
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| slaweq | johnsom: so if You would e.g. disable port security on such amphora port, octavia would fail to work? | 14:38 |
| amotoki | johnsom: what is AAP? | 14:38 |
| mlavalle | but if you were to configure the noop firewall, you get AAP and problem is fixed, right? | 14:38 |
| mlavalle | AAP == Allowed Address Pairs | 14:39 |
| johnsom | Allowed Address Pairs (AAP) (on mobile) | 14:39 |
| amotoki | ah... | 14:39 |
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| johnsom | mlavalle: I do not know on the firewall noop. | 14:40 |
| ileixe_ | mlavalle: Yes we've been used like that | 14:40 |
| mlavalle | so again, why fix it if it ain't broke? | 14:40 |
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| ileixe_ | hm.. I think it's right direction and it do break other our custom code.. | 14:41 |
| amotoki | ileixe_: from the historical background, allowed-address-pairs ext was introduced to allow a neutron port to have more IP addresses, so the AAP extension is an enhancement of security group API. | 14:41 |
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| amotoki | ileixe_: if you use allowed-address-pairs for different purposes, it is another topic. | 14:42 |
| ileixe_ | Yes, if it couples security group a lot, again I think the request is invald | 14:42 |
| mlavalle | and in principle, tailor the reference implementation to your custom code is not a very strong reason to change the reference implementation | 14:42 |
| ileixe_ | Ok i understand | 14:43 |
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| mlavalle | unless we can show we are going to benefit many other deployers, so we justify the effort and risk of changing the reference implemenatation code | 14:43 |
| yamamoto | i guess you should explain what your "custom code" does | 14:43 |
| slaweq | I agree with mlavalle | 14:44 |
| ileixe_ | What I think about AAP is | 14:44 |
| mlavalle | ileixe_: I am not saying no.... I am saying we need to understand a deep reason to do this | 14:44 |
| ileixe_ | to provide additional IP for the port | 14:44 |
| mlavalle | because this code belongs to a community | 14:44 |
| ileixe_ | to enabble ACL | 14:44 |
| ileixe_ | so what we have done for the port is to add some routing for the port when AAP is added | 14:45 |
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| johnsom | I cannot seem to open the bug on my phone, so I have no context here | 14:45 |
| ileixe_ | But.. I think it's not very common | 14:45 |
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| njohnston | ileixe_: Why is it that you want to shift from firewall_driver=noop to enable_security_groups=false? | 14:46 |
| ileixe_ | That's also because... | 14:46 |
| njohnston | ileixe_: Is there a driver for that use case that could be applied to other openstack clouds? | 14:46 |
| ileixe_ | we have to add some logics when seucirty group enabled | 14:46 |
| ileixe_ | I don't want to | 14:46 |
| mlavalle | ileixe_: I think we can explore this further, if you are willing to explain your use case further. So far, you have proposed a "what to do" (detach AAP from sec groups) but maybe the why (your use case) can be benefitial to the community | 14:46 |
| ileixe_ | hm.. | 14:47 |
| ileixe_ | I think it's better to explain our architecture first | 14:47 |
| ileixe_ | And its anothoer RFE | 14:47 |
| ileixe_ | can we deal with them first...? | 14:47 |
| yamamoto | ileixe_: by somehow watching the updates of aap values? | 14:47 |
| ileixe_ | Yes | 14:47 |
| slaweq | maybe we can ask community if such use case would be useful for others also? E.g. on openstack-discuss ML? | 14:49 |
| ileixe_ | We don't use security group, but when security group enabled, we have to add some logic for that (to bypass arp snooping rule). So I just want to use without security group. | 14:49 |
| amotoki | I think ileixe_'s interpretation of allowed-address-pairs is correct. allowed-address-pairs attribute defines what IPs and ranges are behind the port. | 14:49 |
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| amotoki | it was introduced to enhance the security group, but the understanding looks valid. | 14:50 |
| njohnston | ileixe_: so the real problem you're trying to overcome is the mac snooping protection? | 14:51 |
| ileixe_ | Yes that was root cause | 14:52 |
| amotoki | ileixe_: if so, port_security=False doesn't work for you? | 14:53 |
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| slaweq | IIUC there are already at least 2 valid use cases of using AAP without security groups: ileixe_'s one and Octavia's one, right? | 14:53 |
| mlavalle | it's the same, isn't it? | 14:53 |
| mlavalle | ileixe_ wants this to use Octavia, right? | 14:53 |
| ileixe_ | Yes | 14:53 |
| slaweq | ahh, ok | 14:54 |
| slaweq | so my understanding wasn't correct | 14:54 |
| slaweq | sorry | 14:54 |
| mlavalle | but he has a way to do it now, right? | 14:54 |
| mlavalle | namely, the noop firewall | 14:54 |
| ileixe_ | Yes it's not a problme for whom use reference implemtations | 14:54 |
| johnsom | Yeah, to my knowledge the Octavia team is not asking for this change. What we have today works for us in general. | 14:55 |
| ileixe_ | amotoki: I think it's not directly related to my issue but I will take a look at it. Thanks. | 14:55 |
| mlavalle | and I understand that conceptually, it might be cleaner if AAP wasn't coupled to security groups.... but at this point it only seems conceptual... we don't have a specifc use case to enable at this point | 14:56 |
| mlavalle | I mean a broken use case that we need to enable | 14:57 |
| liuyulong | Maybe you should separate an isolated AZ for Octavia amphora to run instance without security group (firewall). And run users' normal instances to those hosts which enable the security group? | 14:57 |
| slaweq | ok, so should we postpone this rfe until there will be more valid use cases for that? | 14:57 |
| amotoki | we have 5mins left. my suggestion on the next step is that ileixe_ clarify what is the real needs. | 14:57 |
| ileixe_ | Yes | 14:57 |
| ileixe_ | agreed | 14:57 |
| slaweq | amotoki: ok | 14:58 |
| slaweq | sounds good | 14:58 |
| yamamoto | +1 | 14:58 |
| ileixe_ | liuyulong: Thanks I gonna look at it also | 14:58 |
| njohnston | agreed. In particular ileixe_'s statement "when security group enabled, we have to add some logic for that (to bypass arp snooping rule)" is something that I don't see happening with the noop firewall driver, looking at the code. I don't see arp spoofing protection happening with noop. | 14:58 |
| mlavalle | thanks ileixe_. we really appreciate your submission. whatever pushback I gave here is in the interest of identifying use cases valid from a community perspective | 14:59 |
| slaweq | ok, thx for attending, we are on top of the hour now | 14:59 |
| ileixe_ | my presure | 14:59 |
| ileixe_ | :) | 14:59 |
| slaweq | have a great weekend everyone :) | 14:59 |
| slaweq | o/ | 14:59 |
| slaweq | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Oct 11 15:00:07 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2019/neutron_drivers.2019-10-11-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| amotoki | o/ | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2019/neutron_drivers.2019-10-11-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2019/neutron_drivers.2019-10-11-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
| yamamoto | good night | 15:00 |
| slaweq | so ileixe_: please update LP bug with clarifications and we will get back to this on next meetings | 15:00 |
| slaweq | thx for attending the meeting | 15:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 15:00 |
| njohnston | thanks ileixe_! | 15:00 |
| ileixe_ | slaweq: Ok | 15:00 |
| amotoki | ileixe_: thanks | 15:00 |
| ileixe_ | o/ good night | 15:00 |
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