Friday, 2018-03-16

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yamamotohi14:00
mlavalle#startmeeting neutron_drivers14:00
openstackMeeting started Fri Mar 16 14:00:14 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mlavalle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)"14:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers'14:00
ihrachyso/14:00
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mlavallehi yamamoto, ihrachys14:00
mlavalleNice to see you!14:00
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mlavalleLet's get going....14:01
mlavalleRFEs for today are here:14:01
mlavalle#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=rfe-triaged14:02
mlavalleFirst one for today is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/174813214:02
openstackLaunchpad bug 1748132 in neutron "[RFE] Can not create router gateway without external_fixed_ips" [Low,In progress] - Assigned to Guoshuai Li (liguoshuai1990)14:02
mlavalleWe had proposed to the submitter use of subnet service types to acomplish the same thing14:03
amotokihi14:03
mlavalleamotoki: o/14:04
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mlavalleNow he clarified that he is using networking-ovn14:04
mlavallehaleyb: you around?14:05
haleybyes, i'm here, i was reading the bug again14:05
haleybi don't exactly understand his Question #114:06
haleybin comment 1314:06
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haleybis it just a static route on the upstream router?14:07
mlavalleI think it is14:07
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mlavallebut he seems to have found a solution for 114:07
mlavalleProblem is 214:07
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amotokire #1, in normal linux router case, a next hop does not response and ns router will return icmp unreachable14:08
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haleybso with problem 2 it's using default snat if no floating14:09
mlavalleright14:09
mlavalleand if no fip, he doesn't want traffic to go out14:09
ihrachys2 could be approached as a bug, no? just block it. is there a use case where we would want to leak?14:10
amotokibut how can we detect we cannot do SNAT for a case of 2.14:11
amotoki?14:11
mlavalleIf we come up with a 'signalling' mechanism, we might as well revert to his original proposal14:13
amotokiyeah, I think so.14:14
mlavallein other words, Router Gateway Port without IP14:14
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amotokianother option is a combination of subnet with private IP and no snat attribute. it might save tables resource for SNAT, but it will fall into 1.14:16
amotokiperhaps gateway port without IP is easier to understand compared to no SNAT option in this case14:16
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mlavalleyou mean his original proposal?14:17
amotokimlavalle: yes14:18
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mlavalleYes, seems the cleaner alternative14:18
haleybmlavalle: there is the enable_snat flag in the external_gateway_info object, i haven't played with it in a while14:18
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mlavalleWe can play with it over the next few days14:19
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amotokii mean enable_snat flag by "SNAT" option14:20
mlavallepropose him to play with it14:20
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haleybhttps://specs.openstack.org/openstack/neutron-specs/specs/api/configurable_external_gateway_modes.html does say enable_snat is there to change the behavior, and floating ips will work regardless14:21
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yamamotohe want to make the router not to forward traffic from ip without fip, right?14:22
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yamamotowith or without snat14:22
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amotokiyamamoto: yes. he says "VM access to public network through floating IP only."14:22
mlavalleand he wants to save the a public ip address14:23
mlavallein the router gateway port14:23
amotokias operator perspective, service subnet will prevent from wasting public IP addresses. from user perspective, no gateway IP is easier to understand.14:24
yamamotowith subnet service types, we can save a public ip but can't stop forwarding14:24
amotokii think at least he need to use service type for subnet to save IP addresses.14:24
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mlavalleright, we can't stop forwarding14:25
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amotokihis proposal of no gateway IP is just an user option. it seems better to ask him whether he would like to save public IP addrs as system level.14:26
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mlavallehe already says that in the original rfe: "in order to save public IP network"14:27
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amotokiyes, perhaps we would like to save IPs as operators14:28
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mlavallehaleyb: do you propose a combination of subnet service type with enable_snat?14:29
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haleybmlavalle: i think that case could work.  but i'm also thinking about amotoki's comment that no gateway IP is easy to understand14:30
mlavalleyeah, his original proposal14:30
haleybi hadn't assumed someone would want to disable snat entirely14:30
mlavalleI was fine with it originally. seemed reasonable with me14:31
yamamotowith enable_snat=false the router would forward those packets without snat. i don't think it's what he wants.14:31
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mlavallego back to his original proposal?14:32
haleybyamamoto: they might actually be dropped based on scoping, or dropped in the upstream router, but maybe not in his config14:32
yamamotohaleyb: avoiding snat is somehow common for distributed implementations like midonet, where distributing snat state can be expensive.14:33
haleybmlavalle: so maybe the original proposal wins?14:34
mlavallethat's my opinion14:34
mlavallewhat do others think?14:35
amotokiI think one minus point of the original proposal is operators cannot enforce no IP for a gateway port.14:35
amotokithis is the point I am not clear.14:36
yamamotoi'm leaning to the original proposal.  or make enable_snat 3 mode (add "drop" mode)14:36
yamamotoamotoki: you mean cloud admin vs tenant admin?14:37
amotokiyamamoto: tenant vs admin14:37
yamamotoadmin wants to save public ips but tenant might not follow the policy?14:38
amotokiyamamoto: that's a possible case as having IP for a gateway port is our default14:38
yamamotomaybe it can be solved separately with policy.json or something like that?14:39
amotokigood point14:41
mlavalleThat would be beyond the scope of this RFE, right?14:42
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mlavallego back to original proposal?14:44
amotokiit is a difficult point. at now, the policy framework cannot enforce user to always specify some field, so it means it is not easy to enforce it to users..14:44
yamamotoor some kind of quota to motivate tenants to save public ips14:45
amotokihonestly this RFE focuses on no IP of a gateway port14:46
amotokiand more demand should be a separate topic14:47
mlavalleyeap14:47
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mlavalleMy opinion is still towards the original proposal14:48
yamamoto+114:48
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amotoki+1. how about posting questions/feedbacks based on today's discussion if any?14:48
mlavalleyes, I would do that14:49
mlavalleihrachys, haleyb: what do you think?14:49
amotokii will post a point i raised above (tenant vs admin)14:49
haleyb+114:49
mlavalleamotoki: agree14:49
mlavallecool14:50
ihrachysI don't have a useful thought :)14:50
mlavalleihrachys: that's fine :-)14:51
mlavallefwiw, I didn't expect this lengthy discussion last night when I was preparing for this meeting.... LOL14:52
amotokihehe14:52
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mlavalleGood discussion, though. Thanks!14:52
mlavalleMoving on, next one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/169042514:53
openstackLaunchpad bug 1690425 in neutron "[RFE] neutron cells aware" [Wishlist,Triaged]14:53
mlavalleFor this one we want someone to work on a PoC14:54
mlavalleWhat I think I will do is I will create a blueprint for it in Launchpad14:54
mlavalleso we can discuss / advertise it in the weekly meeting during the blueprints section14:55
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mlavallemakes sense?14:55
mlavalleIn the interest of time, I will take that as a yes ;-)14:56
mlavalleFollowing one is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/169042514:56
openstackLaunchpad bug 1690425 in neutron "[RFE] neutron cells aware" [Wishlist,Triaged]14:56
amotokipossible.14:56
amotokisame bug?14:57
mlavallesorry14:57
mlavallehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/171538614:57
openstackLaunchpad bug 1715386 in neutron "[RFE]Support routing traffic based on subnet" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to zhaobo (zhaobo6)14:57
mlavalleFor this one, I think we need to go back to the spec and give it a review14:58
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amotokisame understanding14:59
mlavalleand given that we are short of time, next week we can start with https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/172302614:59
openstackLaunchpad bug 1723026 in neutron "[RFE]Support get device_ids from floatingips" [Wishlist,Confirmed] - Assigned to Hongbin Lu (hongbin.lu)14:59
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amotokiRegarding bug 1743480, I still didn't get the point in the RFE. I commented in #19. hopefully you can check it.15:00
openstackbug 1743480 in neutron "[RFE] No way to differentiate beween floating IP networks and external provider networks" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174348015:00
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mlavallesounds good amotoki. thanks15:01
mlavalle#endmeeting15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/"15:01
openstackMeeting ended Fri Mar 16 15:01:24 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2018/neutron_drivers.2018-03-16-14.00.html15:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2018/neutron_drivers.2018-03-16-14.00.txt15:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2018/neutron_drivers.2018-03-16-14.00.log.html15:01
yamamotobye15:01
smcginnis#startmeeting releaseteam15:01
openstackMeeting started Fri Mar 16 15:01:33 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:01
mlavalleThanks for attending15:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam'15:01
smcginnisping  dhellmann, dims, fungi, tonyb, lbragstad, ttx, armstrong15:01
knikollao/15:01
ttxo/15:02
mlavallesorry for the delay smcginnis :-(15:02
lbragstado/15:02
annabelleBo/15:02
smcginnismlavalle: No problem!15:02
smcginnisAgenda can be found at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rocky-relmgt-tracking15:02
dhellmanno/15:02
lbragstadjust fyi - knikolla is taking over the release liaison role for keystone15:02
smcginnisCurrently line 3815:02
smcginnislbragstad: ack15:02
smcginnisWelcome knikolla15:02
lbragstadso - expect to see him more frequently in the release meetings :)15:02
smcginnisExcellent15:03
knikollasmcginnis: thanks o/ :)15:03
smcginnis#topic Cycle trailing status15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Cycle trailing status (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"15:03
smcginnisLong live queens I guess. :)15:03
ttxindeed15:04
smcginnis#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-March/128215.html15:04
smcginnisNormally we would be done, but now we have some time for those projects to wrap things up.15:04
smcginnisttx: Anything you want to say about this?15:04
ttxnot really15:04
smcginnisDid we get updates to PROCESS to reflect these changes?15:05
ttxjust wanted to review the tasks above to see what's still needed15:05
smcginnisThe tasks in the etherpad? Or the end of cycle ones in the process doc?15:05
fungiis there some idea as to when the stragglers might release?15:06
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fungiwondering if it makes sense for me to delay merging the signing key rotation a few days or something15:06
smcginnisThe ML post says up to 3 months after the coordinated release, so I don't think we should wait.15:07
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smcginnisWhich does mean some Queens targeted things will be signed with the rocky key, but I think we end up like that anyway with stable releases, right?15:07
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fungiyeah, it's not a big deal (as discussed at last week's meeting)15:08
fungiif we thought it was going to be sometime in the coming week then i would push off my monday plan15:09
fungibut i'll just stick to the schedule15:09
smcginnisIt's possible there may be some, but no one that I'm aware of at the moment.15:09
smcginnisSo probably better not to hold things up for it.15:09
fungino sweat15:09
smcginnisfungi: Thanks for checking.15:09
ttxyes tasks on the etherpad15:10
smcginnisWhich also reminds me, infra had planned on some gerrit downtime after cycle-trailing release was complete.15:10
smcginnisBut that can probably still happen. It was/is planned for tomorrow.15:10
smcginnisfungi: I forget the details. Do you know the nature of the dowtime?15:10
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fungii think we decided to push it out a week due to one of the interested parties just coming back from vacation today15:11
fungiit was just going to be a project rename15:11
fungiwell, a couple of project renames15:11
smcginnisAh, OK. I'll note that in our etherpad just to make sure we're all aware.15:11
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smcginnisShouldn't make a difference over the weekend, but just in case.15:11
smcginnisfungi: So current plan is one week from tomorrow?15:12
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fungiwe were originally also going to roll in the nova-specs repository repair but then ended up having to step up the timeline and perform that in an emergency maintenance last week instead15:12
fungier, lemme double-check the meeting details15:12
smcginnisNo worries, we can follow up on that later.15:12
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smcginnisAnyone have anything else to discuss about cycle-trailing projects?15:13
fungisure, i'll let you know at the end of the meeting15:13
smcginnis#topic Contribution ladder15:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Contribution ladder (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"15:13
smcginnisttx: Did you want to take this?15:13
ttxyes15:13
ttxso I want to make sure we caputure the newcomers that came to us in Dublin15:14
ttxcapture15:14
ttxannabelleB and armstrong15:14
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annabelleBnewcomer reporting for duty!15:14
ttxby giving them a way to get started15:14
smcginnis#link https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1B9u2VpLeuzj-1T1VJrpgaE7_uM9T7cRlEXLFf56ggKE/edit15:14
ttxI feel like we need to describe levels of engagement15:15
smcginnis#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/relmgmt-onboarding15:15
ttxFirst level being15:15
ttxa basic understanding of the process and infra machinery behind it15:15
ttxbeing able to review 90% of the release requests and take a review day15:15
ttx(including creating issues for job failures, not necessarily debug then)15:16
ttxthem)15:16
ttxare we on the same page on what that first level would look like ?15:16
smcginnisI like that description.15:16
ttxor more ? or less ?15:16
dhellmannthat seems like a lot15:17
fungialso, nice diagram15:17
ttxbasically it's about approving stuff that you feel comfortable approving15:17
dhellmannmaybe step 1 is just reviewing the release requests themselvs?15:17
ttxand having a peek behind the scenes15:17
dhellmannand step 2 is understanding more of what happens after approval15:17
ttxdhellmann: you mean, in case of failure, just call Doug?15:18
ttxI mean $Doug15:18
smcginnisttx: Is the idea that would be a spectrum where after all of step 1 is covered and understood, that would then be the point at which they would be added as core?15:18
* dhellmann remembers to change his phone number again for this cycle15:18
fungidoug-for-a-day15:18
smcginnis:)15:18
smcginnisWWDD - What would Doug do?15:18
dhellmannI like this diagram a lot, btw15:19
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ttxsmcginnis: I would add them as Core at stage 1, with understandig that they should only approve stuff they are comfortable approving15:19
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ttxI want then to be useful from day 015:19
dhellmannwhat is step 2?15:19
smcginnisBut not at the start of stage 1 right? Or we need a stage 0 for new folks to get to that point?15:19
dhellmannor stage 2, I guess15:19
ttxgood question, I described it earlier, let me fetch that15:20
* dhellmann opens the etherpad15:20
smcginnisI started jotting down details in that etherpad.15:21
smcginnisIt definitely needs more work.15:21
ttxstage 2 is knowing the cycle process by heart15:21
dhellmannit sounds like stage 1 includes things like understanding the various rules for the different release models?15:21
ttxstage 3 is knowing the whole infrastructure behind it15:21
smcginnisBut wanted to start capturing things to work towards some more official documentation.15:21
ttx(also known as the Doug level15:21
ttx)15:21
dhellmannheh15:22
ttxetherpad?15:22
dhellmannhttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/relmgmt-onboarding15:22
* ttx creates etherpads for breakfast15:22
ttxdhellmann: so regarding your stage 0.9 question above15:23
ttxlike not requiring basic understanding of the process / infra behind it15:23
ttxI would say we can have a stage before my stage 1 where people just do non-core reviews15:23
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ttxBut I feel like to be trusted to do release core reviews you need that basic understanding of what happens when you press W+115:24
smcginnisI do think someone needs to have some understanding and experience before we give them the stage 1 details and core rights.15:24
ttxSo stage 0.9 is actually a stage 015:24
dhellmannok, I can see that as fair15:24
ttxsince anyone can do it15:24
ttxSo Stage 0 - release +1 reviews15:25
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ttxStage 1 - minimal necessary to be trusted with W+115:25
ttxWe could/should document the review rules though, even for stage 015:26
dhellmannI guess the stage definitions are "you must be able to do..." descriptions, rather than "you will do..."15:26
smcginnisOK, I think we have the same thought, just conveying it a little differently.15:26
ttxsince I feel like people are not participating in release reviews ebcause they have no idea what we look for15:26
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smcginnis++15:26
smcginnisRegardless, we need better documentation of what is involved.15:26
dhellmannyeah, I've tried to put as many of the rules into the code as I could, but the ones that are left are pretty subtle so docs would help15:26
ttxheck, sometimes I wonder how to describe my process15:27
smcginnisIt might help us too, since we probably each approach the reviews slightly differently.15:27
ttxIt's almost supernatural sense of the yaml feeling right15:27
ttxa combination of trusting the submitter to actually know semver15:27
ttxand diving and check15:27
smcginnisI think the validation testing has gotten good enough that the semi-subjective part of doing reviews is a lot more nuanced.15:28
fungii appreciate the level of detail there. i'm confident i could do those things today if i had the bandwidth for them15:28
ttxwhich means that .Y bumps on current release series are mostly a no-brainer, just check PTL/liaison approval15:28
dhellmannat this point a lot of the time it comes down to "you can't do this at this point in the cycle"15:28
smcginnisTime in cycle, stable status, and semver adherance are probably the big gotchas.15:29
ttxright, so we should document this15:29
dhellmann++15:29
ttxMaybe make that part of stage 015:29
ttx"what to look for in a release review"15:29
smcginnisThere's probably a lot I put under stage 1 in the etherpad that can/should move to a stage 0.15:30
ttxyes15:30
ttxA lot of stage 1 is knowing when not to approve (like when there is some doubt) and leaving it to someone else15:30
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ttxfrankly if we have people in stage 1 taking care of 90% of the requests, we'd be in a good place15:31
dhellmanntrue15:31
smcginnisI've been looking at these as transitional stages where you start at stage 1 without it and as you absorb the details I currently have in stage 1, you "complete" that level and move on to stage 2. Just a different way of looking at it.15:31
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dhellmannsmcginnis : yeah, we should agree on whether we're using pre-versioning or post-versioning for stages ;-)15:32
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dhellmannafter that it should be clear where to put each part of the description15:32
smcginnisBut it may be better to have the stage 0 and have these details a declarative statement of what should be known to be at that stage.15:32
dhellmannthis feels like another thing (like the process) that it would be good for us to *publish* as documentation, but we don't really have a place to do that.15:33
smcginnisShould we have a doc section that gets published like other repos?15:33
dhellmannhow do you feel about extending some of the releases.o.o reference section with this stuff?15:33
smcginnisAlthough, "publishing" as rst files when viewing the repo works well too.15:33
dhellmannor yeah, maybe publish to docs.o.o/releases or something?15:33
smcginnisI was thinking the latter.15:34
dhellmannthat makes sense15:34
smcginnisJust conceptually I think of releases.o.o as a reference point for what has been released, not how to get it released. But that could be changed too.15:34
dhellmannwe've hesitated to add too much how-to material there for just that reason15:34
ttxshould we create a CONTRIBUTION_LADDER.rst file ?15:35
smcginnisI think that would be a good next step after we churn through this etherpad.15:35
dhellmannsure15:35
dhellmannand we can figure out publishing separately15:35
dhellmannmaybe docs.o.o/releases/contrib like the other teams15:35
smcginnisI figured it would take a lot of reworking and back and forth that would be easier done in an etherpad before publishing in a more static form.15:35
dhellmann++15:35
smcginnisdhellmann: I like that idea.15:35
ttxOK, I raised it as a topic for the meeting because I don't want our padawans to get bored to death waiting for us to get our act together15:35
smcginnis:)15:36
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dhellmannwould it be useful to set up a buddy system for training?15:36
smcginnisYeah, probably don't need to spend too much time in the meeting on this, but good start. We can keep working through this.15:36
dhellmannor are folks comfortable just asking questions in channel and getting an answer from whoever is around?15:36
smcginnisPair releasing, like pair programming?15:36
fungiprobably fine to stick it in the usual CONTRIBUTING.rst and then use a sphinx include directive to stitch that into the docs tree15:36
annabelleB:: would like a buddy ::15:37
dhellmannannabelleB : sign me up15:37
fungisince github (and presumably other systems) consider CONTRIBUTING.rst as a standard place to find that sort of info15:37
smcginnisI can always be a backup too.15:37
dhellmannfungi : good point15:37
smcginnisDepending on the length, not sure if we want to include it in, or link to it. But we can see where things end up and what looks best.15:37
* smcginnis looks at our CONTRIBUTING and realizes it's pretty bare15:38
smcginnisYeah, that may be a good place actually.15:38
ttxone of the trickiest things to determine when reviewing release requests is whether it's a good time to release wrt. infra status15:38
dhellmannwe can at least start there15:38
ttxso i still want to work on some grafana dashboard that would answer that question near-objectively15:39
ttxIf graphs look too wrong, probably not a great time15:39
smcginnisThat could be very useful.15:40
ttxOne of the things that is hard to extract from our metrics is time to merge15:40
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dhellmannthere's a way to ask zuul about recent job failures, but if no release jobs have been run in a while the data may not be good15:40
ttxLike look at top of gate and see how much time since it was enqueued amd how much time left to run15:40
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ttxadd those two15:40
dhellmann#link http://zuul.openstack.org/builds.html?pipeline=release15:40
ttxwhich is why I fear that Grafana.o.o won't cut it15:41
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ttxthe data is a bit hard to compile15:41
dhellmannthat report shows "duration" but I suspect that's only how long the job actually took to run, and doesn't account for any waiting period15:42
smcginnisThat duration shows how long it took the test to run, but not how long it had to wait before it started running.15:42
smcginnisjinx15:42
ttxIt's still good input. Rate of recent fails on release jobs is prety useful15:42
ttxIdeally we'd condense all those inputs into a single traffic light style indicator15:43
dhellmannI wonder if that zuul data is available via an api15:43
ttxand a number of dashboards to explain the area having problems15:43
dhellmannthis is drifting pretty far from an onboarding ladder, though15:43
fungithe data is stored in a relational database, but i don't think there's (yet) an api exposed to query that beyond what the dashboard presents15:44
ttxright... but I feel like it would be extremely useful for stage 1 people15:44
smcginnisYeah, we can probably move on for now and come back to this as we work through those details.15:44
fungithough basic success/failure for specific pipeline+job combinations should also be queryable from graphite15:44
smcginnisttx: Want to add an action to our planning etherpad so it's not lost?15:44
ttxon it15:45
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smcginnisOK, I'll move on then.15:45
smcginnis#topic Sending periodic "unreleased" reports15:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Sending periodic "unreleased" reports (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"15:45
smcginnisI do have some cinder related reports that I run periodically and publish to a web site.15:46
smcginnisI've actually been meaning to add this as one of the things that gets run.15:46
smcginnisIt would make it easier for us to easily check on that.15:46
smcginnisBut good question as to whether we should send that data out.15:46
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fungiwhat kind of reports?15:47
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dhellmannI was thinking a periodic job that sent the output of list_unreleased_changes.sh for each team15:47
dhellmannthough only sending if there was actually something to send15:47
dhellmannand a very long period, like a month15:47
dhellmannso we'd have an email with a subject like "[cinder](pike) unreleased changes" and it would include all of the pike deliverables for that team15:48
smcginnisI kind of like that idea.15:48
ttxwho would we send that to ?15:48
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dhellmannopenstack-dev15:48
dhellmannthis came up because someone asked for a neutron pike release this week and when I looked there were dozens of patches15:49
ttxthat would be... pretty noisy15:49
dhellmannwell, if the email is only 1 per month and only if there are unreleased patches, it shouldn't be that many for teams on top of their releases15:49
dhellmannand if they aren't doing backports it wouldn't generate anything15:50
dhellmannand we would leave out master, of course15:50
smcginnisYeah, I think once a month, and only if significant patches found, wouldn't be too noisy.15:50
ttxdhellmann: I fear the mailman day effect. So maybe that should send emails one month after last release15:50
dhellmannah, hmm15:50
dhellmannyeah, that's an interesting idea15:50
ttxi.e the job would run daily but consider the date of last release15:50
dhellmannwe could run the job daily, but if it hasn't been 30 days since the last release we don't announce anything either?15:51
ttxthat way you don't train people to ignore email every 1st of the month15:51
fungithat seems less likely to fall through the cracks at least15:51
ttxright15:51
dhellmannok, sure, that makes sense15:51
smcginnisSo if last_release > one_month and len(merged_patches) > signficant_amount: send email?15:51
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dhellmannI'll make some notes in the planning doc. I'm not sure I'm going to get to it this cycle myself, but I could advise someone else who wanted to work on it.15:51
ttxsmcginnis: well, you would not want to send one every day after the 30th day either15:51
fungior do you do it on a modulus of ~30 days since the last release?15:52
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smcginnisttx: True15:52
ttxfungi: what fungi said15:52
ttxyou send on every last release monthversary15:52
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dhellmannmaybe significant_amount == 5?15:52
dhellmannor higher?15:52
smcginnisBikeshed mode - engaged.15:52
dhellmannhah15:53
ttx5 sounds fine to me if no release for a month15:53
persiaMaybe only send the monthversary notices when the number of patches has changed since the last notice15:53
ttxand blue15:53
dhellmannok, I'll add a note15:53
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ttxstateful!15:53
persiattx: No, just check if a change landed in the last 30 days.15:53
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smcginnisIt hasn't been uncommon to see 5 commits all for zuul job changes.15:53
persiacommit_date of master HEAD should be enough.15:53
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ttxok, ok... if one no longer can troll15:54
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ttxok 5 minutes left15:54
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smcginnisProbably should add this to the planning etherpad too?15:55
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smcginnisBut one more topic, so I'll move on.15:55
dhellmannline 17715:55
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smcginnis#topic Stopping requirements sync15:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Stopping requirements sync (Meeting topic: releaseteam)"15:55
smcginnis#link15:56
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smcginnisOops15:56
smcginnis#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-March/128352.html15:56
dhellmannthis was a late addition, I just wanted to make sure folks saw the email and provided feedback15:56
smcginnisI need to reread it to understand the issue with how we do things now.15:56
smcginnisBut responses so far seem favorable.15:56
dhellmannI'm happy to talk through it if folks have detailed questions about the background15:56
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smcginnisIs there a one or two sentence summary of what problems we have now that this is avoiding?15:57
dhellmannwe end up releasing oslo libraries just because of requirements bumps15:57
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fungiprojects (i could name examples) would like to be able to more accurately reflect their individual backwards compatibility with their own dependencies15:58
ttxyes yjay is silly15:58
ttxsmcginnis: i think it removes unneeded complexity15:58
dhellmannalso some of the teams that want their tools to be usable on their own don't always want to use the latest version of a dependency that some other project needs15:58
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smcginnisBut still enforces compatiblity for coinstallability?15:58
fungiright15:58
dhellmannyes, the upper-constraints.txt list provides that15:58
smcginnisOK, sounds good to me then.15:59
dhellmannmy proposed change is a simplified version of what I remember the original plan being, where I don't ask teams to run integration tests using the lower bounds15:59
dhellmannit doesn't prevent that, but as I have no real interest in it I'm leaving that to others15:59
dhellmannit seems appropriate to try to have this done by the time we get to vancouver, since the plan was drawn up the last time we were there16:00
smcginnisAnyone have last minute comments?16:00
dhellmannthe original plan, that is, not my proposal16:00
fungiother benefits are 1. less back-and-forth between reqs repo changes and per-project changes when they want to adjust a minimum, and 2. no more reqs sync changes16:00
smcginnisOut of time.16:00
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fungireviewing the infra meeting log ( http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2018/infra.2018-03-13-19.01.log.html#l-60 ) and conferring with clarkb, the original plan was to do project rename maintenance later today but the revised plan is to reevaluate on tuesday and come up with a new scheduled date/time (so might be a week from today, might be longer)16:00
dhellmannack, use the ML thread for questions please16:00
smcginnisfungi: Ack, thanks.16:01
smcginnisThanks everyone.16:01
smcginnis#endmeeting16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/"16:01
openstackMeeting ended Fri Mar 16 16:01:18 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2018/releaseteam.2018-03-16-15.01.html16:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2018/releaseteam.2018-03-16-15.01.txt16:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2018/releaseteam.2018-03-16-15.01.log.html16:01
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rm_mobileWhelp I got netsplit22:08
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