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| dhellmann | #startmeeting releaseteam | 14:01 |
| dhellmann | courtesy ping: ttx, dims, lifeless, tonyb, stevemar | 14:01 |
| dhellmann | If you would like for me to add you to the courtesy ping please say so | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri May 13 14:01:41 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam' | 14:01 |
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| IgorYozhikov | o/ | 14:01 |
| toabctl | hi | 14:02 |
| dirk | Hi | 14:02 |
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| number80 | o/ | 14:02 |
| dhellmann | hi, everyone | 14:02 |
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| dhellmann | our agenda is under week R-21 on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-relmgt-tracking | 14:03 |
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| dims | o/ | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | #topic Prioritizing tasks for the cycle | 14:04 |
| dhellmann | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-relmgt-plan | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Prioritizing tasks for the cycle (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:04 | |
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| dhellmann | I've started adding N[123] notes before TODO items there. I'd like to review them to make sure I haven't missed anything or placed anything too late in the cycle, and then attach names to the N1 items at least. | 14:04 |
| dhellmann | let's start by looking at the "communication/governance changes" section | 14:05 |
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| ttx | o/ | 14:05 |
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| dhellmann | I went ahead and put my name next to the releases.o.o site changes since I've already started those | 14:05 |
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| dhellmann | we have 2 tasks for reviewing existing release tags | 14:06 |
| dhellmann | we didn't spend much time discussing horizon plugins at the summit, did we? should we start ensuring those have type:library? | 14:07 |
| ttx | I shall do the ACL dance spec for N1 | 14:07 |
| ttx | dhellmann: alternatively we could create a specific type for them | 14:07 |
| ttx | or for them + other plugins | 14:08 |
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| dirk | What's the flag for neutron plugins? | 14:08 |
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| dirk | Same concept than horizon right? | 14:08 |
| zigo | o/ | 14:08 |
| dhellmann | do you think we need a separate plugin type? how would we treat those differently from non-plugin libraries? | 14:08 |
| ttx | I think we actively recommended *not* to use library for horizon plugin modules | 14:08 |
| dhellmann | hmm, I didn't remember that | 14:08 |
| ttx | so that they all appear in the same section | 14:09 |
| * ttx checks | 14:09 | |
| dims | dhellmann : i can tackle - "TODO review projects with cycle-based models to ensure they are all set up for relmgt to manage their releases" if we can come up with things i have to check for each project | 14:09 |
| ttx | dhellmann: most are in "others" right now | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | dims : ok. I think that's just a review of their acls in project-config to make sure we have tagging rights | 14:09 |
| ttx | dhellmann: only senlin-dashboard is still type:library | 14:10 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that generally means they have no type tag at all | 14:10 |
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| ttx | right, but in mitaka so that they would appear in the same section I actively recommended that they did not pick typoe:library in reviews | 14:10 |
| ttx | That's definitely a stop-gap until we figure out how to classify them | 14:10 |
| dhellmann | so maybe it makes sense to have a type:plugin or type:extension or something to handle those cases? would we want ui-plugin and networking-plugin or is one type enough? | 14:11 |
| ttx | personally I think it would be great to list them under a specific category | 14:11 |
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| dims | dhellmann : added my name next to it | 14:11 |
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| ttx | rather than lose them in the middle of libraries as if any code could import them | 14:11 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, I'm starting to see the value of that. I was worried about the extra logic in the tools to handle things that are like libraries | 14:11 |
| dhellmann | ttx: makes sense | 14:11 |
| dhellmann | dims: thanks | 14:11 |
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| ttx | So we could either have a type:other (and enforce picking of type) or have type:plugin (or other name) and keep the "others" to represent oddities that do not pick type | 14:12 |
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| ttx | Question is more, should we have a specific type for horizon plugins, or a specific type for all sorts of plugins (like devstack, horizon...) | 14:12 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 14:13 |
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| dhellmann | having all of the UI plugins and network plugins lumped together may seem odd, but at the same time do we want a zillion different types that people have to understand? | 14:13 |
| ttx | part of a larger discussion I guess | 14:13 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, ok, let's table that for now and keep going | 14:13 |
| ttx | My main goal being to keep "libraries" for things that could be imported by any code, at least in theory | 14:13 |
| dhellmann | sorry, the american version of "table" - set aside :-) | 14:13 |
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| dhellmann | yep, that's a good definition | 14:14 |
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| ttx | rather than code extensions that happen to leave in separate repos | 14:14 |
| ttx | agreed for N1 on that | 14:15 |
| ttx | and we should both work on that | 14:15 |
| dhellmann | I'll give that more thought and maybe we can have a separate conversation later | 14:15 |
| ttx | ack | 14:15 |
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| dhellmann | ok, "final release process improvements" | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | the only N1 item I found there was to identify freeze periods like before major holidays | 14:16 |
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| ttx | I took the wiki cleanup action since I'm wiki admin I probably have rights there | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | there are fewer extended holidays in this part of the year | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | oh good, thanks | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | I came up with 4th of july, there may be others, but all of them seem to just be 1 day so I'm not sure we need to pre-declare a freeze like we would around new year's and winter holidays | 14:17 |
| dhellmann | thoughts? | 14:17 |
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| dhellmann | it might be enough to just mention anticipated delays in the countdown emails | 14:18 |
| dims | dhellmann : am ok with not pre-declaring a freeze | 14:18 |
| dims | right | 14:18 |
| ttx | yeah, feels like a bit too much | 14:18 |
| ttx | if only because holidays are different everywhere and all | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | right | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | although I think the point is really to say when we know most of the folks with permission to release aren't going to be around to do it | 14:19 |
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| dhellmann | the rest of this section can wait until later in the cycle. we won't want to wait to start, but we don't have N1 as a deadline, I think | 14:19 |
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| dhellmann | shall we move on to "reno feature development"? | 14:20 |
| dhellmann | the main thing there for N1 is to figure out how badly merging tags from stable branches into master confuses reno and where it puts the release notes | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | fungi showed us how that works at the summit | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | we just need to experiment and possibly fix the problem | 14:21 |
| ttx | ack | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | I think the releases site work is more important, so this is likely to slip past N1 if it stays on my plate | 14:21 |
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| dhellmann | ok, let's leave that unassigned for now and we can pick it up when we have time | 14:22 |
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| ttx | yeah, might pick it up but unlikely | 14:23 |
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| ttx | adding as tentative to my todo | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I expect this is something I'll have to do. We need to get some other folks familiar with the reno code, though, so it would be good to have someone else try looking at it. | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | moving on to "Automation for releases when changes merge in openstack/releases" | 14:23 |
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| ttx | yeah, that's why I'm /considering/ doing it... I just know that that's the sort of thing that will continually fall off my list | 14:24 |
| fungi | i'm happy to collaborate with whoever looks into the tag merging implications on reno | 14:24 |
| fungi | just give me a heads up | 14:24 |
| ttx | ok | 14:24 |
| dhellmann | fungi : thanks! | 14:24 |
| * ttx needs some code exercise | 14:24 | |
| ttx | too many frustrating social issues | 14:24 |
| dhellmann | indeed | 14:25 |
| fungi | all social issues are frustrating | 14:25 |
| fungi | or maybe i'm just antisocial | 14:25 |
| dhellmann | maybe I can twist stevemar's arm to looking at it, he expressed some interest in helping with release tools | 14:25 |
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| dhellmann | fungi , while you're here, we were about to talk priorities for automation tooling | 14:25 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: so on the automation front, how did those script updates to incorporate git notes into the tag message work out? | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | I'm not expecting any infra changes to support that work to be done by N1. Maybe N2? | 14:26 |
| fungi | i haven't looked for an example yet | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | fungi : I have that review up, and it's working great when I use it locally. All of the releases in the past week or so have the metadata in the tag message | 14:26 |
| fungi | dhellmann: i'm wanting to pick it up in the next week or so, but yeah shooting for n2 makes sense | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | thank you for the tip, that worked out really well | 14:26 |
| * fungi thought that change got approved last week | 14:27 | |
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| * fungi has terrible memory | 14:27 | |
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| dhellmann | oh, maybe it did, I have a bunch of other patches up for review | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | yeah, you're right, that's merged now | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | it was approved last week, but depended on another patch that didn't so I rebased and let it merge | 14:28 |
| fungi | cool, i'll go look at a recent oslo release | 14:28 |
| dhellmann | the data's just in the tag message for now, I didn't add anything to the contents of the release (I hadn't thought of that until just now) | 14:29 |
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| fungi | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/oslo.context/tag/?h=2.3.0 | 14:29 |
| fungi | that is marvellous fancy | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | ttx: did you spot anything in this section that we need for N1 that I tagged otherwise, or didn't tag at all? | 14:29 |
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| ttx | WOuld be good to work on requirements spinoff, but without PTL to initial-lead it's hard | 14:30 |
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| dhellmann | dims is starting to put some stuff together for that, I was going to ask for an update after we're done with priorities | 14:30 |
| ttx | Maybe we could convince dims to initial-PTL it | 14:30 |
| dhellmann | sssh, I was going to be more subtle! | 14:31 |
| fungi | or just treat dims as de facto ptl ;) | 14:31 |
| * ttx whistles innocently | 14:31 | |
| dhellmann | right | 14:31 |
| * dhellmann looks the other way | 14:31 | |
| dims | ttx : yes, that's an option :) but i am trying hard to bring up someone else | 14:31 |
| ttx | he is not here right | 14:31 |
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| ttx | oops | 14:31 |
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| dhellmann | foiled again by irc mention notifications | 14:31 |
| ttx | those should be outlawed | 14:31 |
| dims | :) | 14:32 |
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| dhellmann | for the release manager's manual, I expect that to be a larger ongoing project and won't really have time to even start it before n1 | 14:32 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I think we can revisit extra N1 goals if we end the list before then | 14:32 |
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| dhellmann | we might make a decision about where we want to publish it by n1 | 14:33 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, I think this list is long enough and I don't think we have anything else that qualifies as must have for n1 | 14:33 |
| ttx | Oh, another thing we might want to do in N1 | 14:33 |
| ttx | actually more "asap" | 14:33 |
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| ttx | is how screwed or not screwed we would be by the addition of Go | 14:33 |
| dhellmann | yeah, good point | 14:33 |
| ttx | we might want to dedicate a brainstorm discussion early next week to that | 14:34 |
| dhellmann | we'll have to look at our tools and see how many of them do things like run "python setup.py --name" | 14:34 |
| dhellmann | right | 14:34 |
| ttx | I'm off Monday though | 14:34 |
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| dhellmann | maybe we can do that early tuesday, before the tc meeting | 14:34 |
| dhellmann | or later today, if folks are around | 14:34 |
| fungi | however, wouldn't be the first time we've put setup.py/setup.cfg and pbr into non-python projects if we hacked around it the ugly wa | 14:35 |
| fungi | y | 14:35 |
| ttx | Early early Tuesday then, I enter a meeting tunnel starting 14:30utc | 14:35 |
| dhellmann | ok | 14:35 |
| dims | ttx : that sounds good | 14:35 |
| ttx | so... 1300utc maybe | 14:35 |
| dhellmann | fungi : good point. it might be "nicer" for us to create a tool "get_name_for_project" that we can use in lots of our scripts instead | 14:35 |
| ttx | dhellmann: can you make that time ? | 14:35 |
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| dhellmann | looking | 14:36 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: 1300 on Tuesday? | 14:36 |
| ttx | yes | 14:36 |
| dhellmann | yes, I can do that | 14:36 |
| dhellmann | dims, fungi : can either of you make it then? | 14:36 |
| ttx | gives us some time Monday to update knowledge to state of the art of Golang releasing | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | we don't want a huge crowd, but a few more minds would help | 14:37 |
| ttx | I guess that still would quality as "holiday" | 14:37 |
| dims | 1300UTC dhellmann ? what time in our TZ? | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | dims : I make that 9:00 AM | 14:37 |
| ttx | that would be 9am | 14:37 |
| fungi | i can do 1300 utc tuesday, sure | 14:37 |
| dims | yep. i can | 14:37 |
| dhellmann | cool, let's plan on that in #openstack-release | 14:38 |
| ttx | ok, cool, so that at least we can mention an estimate at that TC meeting if needed | 14:38 |
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| fungi | that's specifically for go-ification brainstorming, correct? | 14:38 |
| ttx | although that TC meeting is supposedly about technical bnefits rather than cost | 14:38 |
| ttx | fungi: yep | 14:38 |
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| fungi | perfect | 14:38 |
| ttx | if cost is crazy (should not be) better raise it early | 14:38 |
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| dhellmann | good, thanks for raising that ttx | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | #topic bootstrapping the requirements team | 14:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bootstrapping the requirements team (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:39 | |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/094218.html | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | dims, you've started some work on this, is there anything to report or do you need us to take any action? | 14:39 |
| dhellmann | joking from earlier aside, I appreciate you picking this up | 14:40 |
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| dims | dhellmann : no worries at all. so a few people are actively reviewing. me and Dirk are doing a joint review session every day. | 14:41 |
| dhellmann | very nice | 14:41 |
| ttx | I more than appreciate. One of those things I historically run but did a bad job giving a second life lately | 14:41 |
| dims | we have cleared a bunch of backlog, we want to simplify the add/delete from projects.txt as a trivial thing and not wait for +2 from 2 cores | 14:42 |
| fungi | yeah, dirk has been very active, i've noticed | 14:42 |
| dhellmann | I have noticed a few people giving some good comments when I reviewed this week | 14:42 |
| dirk | my main concern right now is that I can provide input from the packaging side but I don't know all about the complex interactions with the gate and the release schedule yet | 14:42 |
| dhellmann | dims : when that validation patch I posted yesterday lands I'd support that policy change | 14:42 |
| dims | harder problem is "when to approve bot proposed updates" which needs better test matrix | 14:42 |
| dhellmann | dirk : ok, we can work on education about the schedule | 14:42 |
| fungi | on a related note, we removed having gerritbot echo requirements changes in #openstack-infra (i think that's merged now) | 14:42 |
| dirk | my feel is that we need to staff up somehow on both sides (distro input + still need a good liason from release team) | 14:42 |
| dims | dhellmann : ack | 14:42 |
| dhellmann | dirk : basically we don't want to change a bunch of requirements during peak deadline periods | 14:42 |
| dirk | fungi: did it change to openstack-requirements? it should | 14:43 |
| dhellmann | fungi : did my script for submitting constraints trigger that change? :-) | 14:43 |
| dims | fungi : dhellmann : the canaries we are using now are here - https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+branch:master+topic:dims/test/constraints | 14:43 |
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| dirk | dims: yeah, but that when-is-it-safe-to-approve just needs a much better automation | 14:43 |
| dims | fungi : dhellmann : i have a cron job that freshes that | 14:43 |
| fungi | dirk: gerritbot can echo in multiple channels, but if it's not echoing in #openstack-requirements (that's a very new channel, right?) then it's an easy change to add that | 14:43 |
| dirk | fungi: let me see if I can post a review for that | 14:44 |
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| dhellmann | dims : nice. I hope we can make that more official this cycle. | 14:44 |
| dims | fungi : i have a review for the bots | 14:44 |
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| dims | fungi : dirk : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/315543/ | 14:44 |
| dirk | dims: oh, cool | 14:44 |
| dims | dhellmann : so i'd give it another month or so. to reconsitute the team | 14:44 |
| fungi | approved | 14:44 |
| number80 | great | 14:45 |
| fungi | dims: do you also have a system-config change to add channel logging? | 14:45 |
| dhellmann | dims : yep | 14:45 |
| fungi | or is that already in place? | 14:45 |
| dims | the etherpad is brimming with information https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/requirements-tasks | 14:45 |
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| dims | fungi : y, i have one | 14:45 |
| dirk | dims: indeed, the etherpad is a great read. it needs a more permanent place though | 14:46 |
| dims | fungi : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/315528/ | 14:46 |
| fungi | k, we'll get it merged the next time there's a lull in meetings. maybe this afternoon americas time | 14:46 |
| dims | dirk : yep the idea is for the new team to figure that out | 14:46 |
| dims | fungi : thanks! | 14:46 |
| dims | dhellmann : ttx : good enough update? | 14:46 |
| dims | dirk : did i miss anything? | 14:46 |
| dhellmann | dims : sorry, local distraction, thank you, yes, that's all good info | 14:47 |
| dirk | dims: in the etherpad you mean? probably, but since I don't know it, I can't point it out :) | 14:47 |
| dhellmann | and thanks again for driving that work, it's going to be a big improvement | 14:47 |
| dirk | we'll eventually learn about it | 14:47 |
| dims | dirk : https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/requirements-tasks | 14:47 |
| dhellmann | let's quickly look at the list of priority reviews | 14:47 |
| ttx | a lot of the requirements hate is because it was only reviewed in bast-effort mode with no team owning it | 14:47 |
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| ttx | so the delays were painful | 14:48 |
| dims | ttx : yep | 14:48 |
| dhellmann | yeah, cutting down the delay and loosening the rules a bit will make it much easier for folks to live with | 14:48 |
| dhellmann | #topic priority reviews | 14:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "priority reviews (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:48 | |
| dhellmann | a lot of these happen to be mine this week, but please mention anything else you think is important | 14:49 |
| dhellmann | #link support multiple release notes links: https://review.openstack.org/308546 | 14:49 |
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| ttx | merged | 14:49 |
| dhellmann | #link add team pages: https://review.openstack.org/313164 | 14:49 |
| dhellmann | #link fix previous version detection when there are no tags: https://review.openstack.org/314234 | 14:49 |
| dhellmann | #link submit constraint when releasing something that is published to pypi: https://review.openstack.org/314111 | 14:49 |
| dhellmann | #link remove instructions for submitting constraints update: https://review.openstack.org/314113 | 14:49 |
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| dhellmann | #link change email topic tag: https://review.openstack.org/312762 | 14:49 |
| ttx | add team pages is marked cannt merge | 14:49 |
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| dhellmann | ugh, ok, I'll fix that | 14:49 |
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| dhellmann | I don't see that on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/313164/ ttx | 14:50 |
| ttx | hm | 14:50 |
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| ttx | "Strategy Merge if Necessary | 14:50 |
| ttx | Cannot Merge " | 14:50 |
| ttx | under Topic ? | 14:50 |
| dhellmann | weird, I just see merge if necessary. | 14:50 |
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| dhellmann | are you looking at PS3? | 14:51 |
| * ttx clicks rebase for fun | 14:51 | |
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| ttx | yes | 14:51 |
| ttx | conflict during merge | 14:51 |
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| ttx | wth | 14:51 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'll look at that | 14:51 |
| ttx | doesn't prevent W+1 | 14:51 |
| ttx | "cannot be merged due to a path conflict" | 14:52 |
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| ttx | "rebase the change" | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | let me try locally | 14:52 |
| ttx | weird that I would be the only one to se that :) | 14:52 |
| ttx | see* | 14:52 |
| fungi | no, i see it too | 14:52 |
| ttx | I AM NOT CRAZY | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I see a conflict when I rebase locally | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'll fix it | 14:52 |
| fungi | "cannot merge" is in red to the right of "strategy: merge if necessary" | 14:53 |
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| dhellmann | ew, ugly conflict, I'll have to work on that after the meeting | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | #topic open discussion | 14:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: releaseteam)" | 14:54 | |
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| IgorYozhikov | I have topic raised in http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/094827.html | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | is there anything else to bring up? | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | hi, IgorYozhikov | 14:54 |
| IgorYozhikov | dhellmann, yes ^^ | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | did my reply on that thread help? | 14:54 |
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| dims | IgorYozhikov : we can't really dictate what packagers do | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | I just echoed some of what odyssey4me said | 14:54 |
| dims | IgorYozhikov : we can just publish what we test | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | yes, we're trying to help without forcing you to package anything in particular | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | does that make sense? | 14:55 |
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| odyssey4me | heh, dhellmann it was actually prometheanfire - not me :) | 14:57 |
| IgorYozhikov | more || less, just want to get clear 4 newton cycle and how to package dependencies in case of broader requirements usage | 14:57 |
| odyssey4me | unless I've totally missed something | 14:57 |
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| dhellmann | odyssey4me : oops, sorry | 14:58 |
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| fungi | one of the challenges with trying to test older versions of deps is that many projects conditionally enable features when newer versions of their deps are present, so hard to test those features on older versions | 14:58 |
| dhellmann | IgorYozhikov : ok. Our recommendation is that you package what is listed in the constraints file, if you can. If you cannot, then use the global-requirements.txt list to determine a lower-bound, but understand that we do not test with those actively and so there may be issues that are fixed by packaging a newer version of something. | 14:59 |
| IgorYozhikov | dhellmann, sorry, just saw your answer. | 14:59 |
| IgorYozhikov | dhellmann, thanx. | 14:59 |
| dhellmann | fungi : very good point. that's going to make adding a lower-constraints test job interesting. | 14:59 |
| dhellmann | IgorYozhikov : good, let us know if we can help clarify further | 14:59 |
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| IgorYozhikov | sure | 14:59 |
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| dhellmann | we're about out of time here, so I'm going to call the meeting and free up this channel. We can move to #openstack-release for more discussion. | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri May 13 15:00:04 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-05-13-14.01.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-05-13-14.01.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/releaseteam/2016/releaseteam.2016-05-13-14.01.log.html | 15:00 |
| dhellmann | thanks everyone! | 15:00 |
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| ttx | thx dhellmann ! | 15:00 |
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