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| yamamoto | hi | 07:00 |
|---|---|---|
| yamamoto | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 19 07:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamoto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:00 |
| yamamoto | #topic agenda | 07:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:00 | |
| yamamoto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet | 07:00 |
| yamamoto | #topic Announcements | 07:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:00 | |
| yamamoto | i moved networking-midonet-coverage from post to check | 07:01 |
| yamamoto | to increate visibility of the results | 07:01 |
| yamamoto | austin summit is next week | 07:01 |
| yamamoto | let's cancel next week's meeting | 07:02 |
| yamamoto | #topic Bugs | 07:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:02 | |
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| yamamoto | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/ | 07:02 |
| yamamoto | all of our tempest jobs are currently failing | 07:03 |
| yamamoto | with timeout | 07:03 |
| yamamoto | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/+bug/1571486 | 07:03 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1571486 in networking-midonet "tempest jobs timout" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to YAMAMOTO Takashi (yamamoto) | 07:03 |
| *** spzala has joined #openstack-meeting | 07:03 | |
| yamamoto | i'm looking at it but no success so far. | 07:03 |
| yamamoto | i'll continue bug deputy | 07:04 |
| yamamoto | #topic Open Discussion | 07:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:05 | |
| yamamoto | nothing from me | 07:05 |
| * yamamoto waiting for a while before closing the meeting | 07:05 | |
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| yamamoto | see you in austin, bye | 07:14 |
| yamamoto | #endmeeting | 07:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:14 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 19 07:14:09 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:14 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-04-19-07.00.html | 07:14 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-04-19-07.00.txt | 07:14 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-04-19-07.00.log.html | 07:14 |
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| ttx | anteaya: it's a piece from a local artist - http://www.ateliersergemeurisse.net/#!images/c1han | 07:47 |
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| anteaya | ttx: thank you | 08:01 |
| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 19 08:02:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:02 |
| anteaya | hello | 08:02 |
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| anteaya | lennyb: are you about? | 08:03 |
| lennyb | yeap | 08:03 |
| lennyb | hi | 08:03 |
| anteaya | #info this meeting is skipped next week due to summit, it will resume the following week | 08:03 |
| anteaya | lennyb: hi | 08:03 |
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| lennyb | anteaya: I have nothing to discuss and I know that it's late for you, so I wont keep you here | 08:04 |
| anteaya | lennyb: can you point mellanox ci to openstack-dev/ci-sandbox instead of openstack-dev/sandbox, please? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/290505/2 | 08:04 |
| anteaya | lennyb: thanks :) | 08:05 |
| anteaya | the sandbox repo is for developers | 08:05 |
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| lennyb | sorry. | 08:05 |
| anteaya | the ci-sandbox is for ci systems | 08:05 |
| anteaya | no worries | 08:05 |
| lennyb | sandbox will be changed. | 08:05 |
| anteaya | thanks I appreciate it | 08:05 |
| anteaya | the sandbox repo will be used during summit to help new devs and pleia2 was just preparing for next week | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | and thats all I had | 08:06 |
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| lennyb | enjoy the summit.... I am sure it will be interesting | 08:07 |
| anteaya | thanks I am looking forward to seeing you in Barcelona | 08:08 |
| anteaya | :) | 08:08 |
| lennyb | I will try | 08:09 |
| anteaya | it would be great if you could be there | 08:09 |
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| anteaya | but only if it works out for you | 08:09 |
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| lennyb | :) | 08:10 |
| anteaya | any objection to me closing the meeting today? | 08:10 |
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| lennyb | nop | 08:11 |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:11 |
| anteaya | thanks for being here | 08:11 |
| anteaya | see you week after next | 08:11 |
| anteaya | enjoy your day! | 08:11 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:11 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 19 08:11:36 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:11 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-19-08.02.html | 08:11 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-19-08.02.txt | 08:11 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-19-08.02.log.html | 08:11 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: We have recovered one of our cloud providers, but there is a huge backlog of jobs to process. Please have patience until your jobs are processed | 13:40 | |
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| Guest45645 | hi bosses | 13:59 |
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| Guest45645 | good evening | 13:59 |
| Guest45645 | greetings from a newbie | 13:59 |
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| saggi | #startmeeting smaug | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 19 14:00:25 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'smaug' | 14:00 |
| saggi | Hi everyone | 14:00 |
| xiangxinyong456 | hi | 14:00 |
| yinweimac | hi | 14:00 |
| Guest45645 | hi | 14:00 |
| yuval | hey | 14:00 |
| chenying_ | hi | 14:01 |
| zhonghua-lee | hi | 14:01 |
| saggi | gampel is away on holiday. He's collection energy for the summit | 14:01 |
| saggi | *collecting | 14:01 |
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| yinweimac | cool | 14:01 |
| xiangxinyong456 | :) | 14:01 |
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| Guest45645 | how much has he collected for now?:) | 14:02 |
| saggi | Is everyone here? | 14:02 |
| zengchen | yes | 14:03 |
| saggi | good | 14:03 |
| saggi | #topic OpenStack Summit | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Summit (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:03 | |
| saggi | Summit is next week | 14:03 |
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| saggi | I'm working on a presentation for the vbrownbag. We get 15 minutes. | 14:04 |
| saggi | I'll send everyone a copy of it later today so you can comment. | 14:04 |
| xiangxinyong456 | good | 14:04 |
| zengchen | have a good trip! great! | 14:04 |
| yinweimac | sure | 14:04 |
| chenying_ | Ok | 14:04 |
| saggi | It's supposed to just introduce Smaug and point out our main advantages | 14:04 |
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| saggi | Mainly our pluggable design. And the whole project attitude. | 14:05 |
| saggi | These are the things that set us apart | 14:05 |
| xiangxinyong456 | saggi: eran told us you need a video | 14:05 |
| saggi | We would also like to have some sort of a demo video. xiangxinyong456, did gampel speak with you about it? | 14:05 |
| yinweimac | yes, I used to be asked what's the difference with project freeze | 14:05 |
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| xiangxinyong456 | yeah | 14:06 |
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| saggi | yinweimac: I'm also trying to get a hold of the freezer guys to see how we can work together instead of compete. | 14:06 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong456: How is that going? | 14:06 |
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| xiangxinyong456 | firstly i will send the video to mailinglist | 14:06 |
| xiangxinyong456 | i plan to record the video tomorrow | 14:07 |
| xiangxinyong456 | but i have no idea about the operation logs | 14:08 |
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| saggi | xiangxinyong456: What do you mean? | 14:08 |
| xiangxinyong456 | because the operation logs have something undecided | 14:09 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong456: Well talk about it offline. In either case we might just skip showing it in the video. It's just a short demonstration anyway. | 14:10 |
| xiangxinyong456 | ok. | 14:10 |
| chenying_ | Now the operation log do not cover the scene portecting immediately without scheduler. | 14:10 |
| zhonghua-lee | is there another topic about that? | 14:10 |
| saggi | zhonghua-lee: About what? | 14:11 |
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| xiangxinyong456 | operation logs | 14:11 |
| xiangxinyong456 | i add it into wiki | 14:11 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: operation logs | 14:11 |
| saggi | no but I'll add one | 14:12 |
| saggi | :) | 14:12 |
| yuval | chenying_: and do you think they should? | 14:12 |
| saggi | Any other comments about summit? | 14:12 |
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| xiangxinyong | saggi, i will send a video to you tommorrow night | 14:13 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong, great! | 14:13 |
| xiangxinyong | by email? | 14:13 |
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| saggi | yes | 14:13 |
| saggi | if it fits | 14:13 |
| xiangxinyong | ok | 14:13 |
| xiangxinyong | or i can upload it to a website | 14:14 |
| zhonghua-lee | I wish I could attend the summit.:( | 14:14 |
| chenying_ | yuval: IMO, we should see the progress and status of all operation type from the operation log API . | 14:14 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong, I wouldn't like WIP versions of the video public. So if you upload it anywhere make it private. | 14:14 |
| xiangxinyong | chenying_: i agree with you. | 14:14 |
| saggi | #topic operation logs | 14:15 |
| yuval | chenying_: I totally agree. Problem is, there might not be an operation engine running, only a protection service | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "operation logs (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:15 | |
| xiangxinyong | saggi: ok | 14:15 |
| chenying_ | checkpoint | 14:15 |
| saggi | The problem with having operation logs without an operation is that the information will have to go in the bank if it's checkpoint related. | 14:16 |
| chenying_ | all protect action will call create_checkpoint | 14:16 |
| chenying_ | create_checkpoint rest API | 14:16 |
| saggi | This is problematic as it breaks the CRUD nature of REST | 14:16 |
| saggi | As it is now, information about checkpoint progress is inside the checkpoint. | 14:17 |
| saggi | We can add more information to the checkpoint, like logs. | 14:17 |
| saggi | But this will have different endpoints. | 14:17 |
| chenying_ | so we can get the progress and status of all operation from checkpoint information? | 14:18 |
| saggi | The point is we can't mix those up. | 14:18 |
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| saggi | We want to support the user case of a user never scheduling operations | 14:18 |
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| saggi | having it's own management logic somewhere and only using the simple operations. | 14:18 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi: but we can not distinguish the direct protect and schedule protect from the checkpoints | 14:19 |
| saggi | This means that the information needs to be part of the entity being created. | 14:19 |
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| saggi | It Shouldn't matter how the checkpoint was created for the restore side | 14:19 |
| saggi | The main issue is whether having logs for the checkpoint is really necessary. | 14:20 |
| saggi | We currently provide information about current progress. | 14:20 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi: we should see the checkpoint info from the checkpoint page | 14:20 |
| saggi | So there are no logs. | 14:20 |
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| saggi | Meaning there is no infiltration about *when* things changed. Just what the status is now. | 14:21 |
| saggi | I want to know if knowing when things changed really makes sense in the context of a checkpoint. | 14:21 |
| saggi | How does cinder\nova do per instance logs | 14:21 |
| saggi | do they even? | 14:21 |
| xiangxinyong | sagg: do you mean we only need the restore to show in the operation logs page? | 14:22 |
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| chenying_ | From xinyong's opinion, He want a or several API that can show the progress and status of a operation(protect delete restore) in smaug ui. | 14:22 |
| saggi | We have progress status from the checkpoint already | 14:22 |
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| chenying_ | How does cinder\nova do per instance logs They will not got to a new page, just show the status of the resoure like volume. | 14:23 |
| saggi | When you ask for information about a checkpoint you should get progress information (if it makes sense). | 14:23 |
| chenying_ | resource | 14:23 |
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| xiangxinyong | how could we show the delete workflow when we delete a checkpoint? | 14:24 |
| saggi | What do you want to show? | 14:24 |
| yinweimac | we just show the checkpoint is deleting | 14:25 |
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| xiangxinyong | so we could change the name "operation logs" to "Restores"? | 14:26 |
| xiangxinyong | ? | 14:26 |
| xiangxinyong | ? | 14:26 |
| chenying_ | Un cinder the the progress and status of volume is recorded in the resoure(volume) db table, will not create a new api or db table to record the data log. | 14:26 |
| chenying_ | In cinder | 14:26 |
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| saggi | Operation logs are for the operations. Operation could contain multiple atomic operations. | 14:27 |
| saggi | *atomic actions | 14:27 |
| saggi | So operation logs "link" to object | 14:27 |
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| xiangxinyong | saggi: i got some confused. | 14:28 |
| saggi | I'll try and do a writeup about how operations relate to other entities and than we'll try and think about how to integrate everything together once we all understand the requirements. | 14:28 |
| saggi | OK? | 14:28 |
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| chenying_ | sure | 14:29 |
| xiangxinyong | ok | 14:29 |
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| saggi | #topic operation workflow | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "operation workflow (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:30 | |
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| saggi | #topic operation workflow | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "operation workflow (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:30 | |
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| saggi | OK | 14:30 |
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| yuval | As you might have seen, I sent a mail to the openstack-dev (tagged smaug) with a suggestion for the restore/protect resource workflow | 14:30 |
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| yuval | It basically answer the need for protection plugins to perform work both independently of child resources and other work which depends on child resources | 14:31 |
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| saggi | Did everyone read it? | 14:33 |
| chenying_ | I have seen. I will take some time to read it. | 14:33 |
| saggi | yinweimac? | 14:33 |
| yinweimac | yes | 14:33 |
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| yinweimac | actually I have a talk with yuval already | 14:34 |
| yinweimac | I agree to divide sync/paralle tasks | 14:34 |
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| yinweimac | but at the same time, I have a bit concern that it looks complicating to protection plugin developers | 14:35 |
| saggi | Yuval and I were talking about it this morning and identified that the main issue is that TaskFlow doesn't have any support for async tasks. | 14:35 |
| yinweimac | and I also gave one fs consistency case to yuval, to see how to meet this case in his design | 14:35 |
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| yinweimac | not actually | 14:36 |
| yuval | yinweimac: what is that fs consistency case? | 14:36 |
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| yinweimac | server freeze io before volumes to take snapshot | 14:36 |
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| yuval | yinweimac: let me think about it, although that might be an issue with the current workflow patches as well, right? | 14:37 |
| yinweimac | yes | 14:37 |
| yinweimac | I think we may need take time to think more about the task flow | 14:38 |
| yuval | ok, so let's take it offline after the meeting | 14:38 |
| yinweimac | there's a trade off between the complexity and the clear semantics | 14:38 |
| yuval | I suggest that everyone should read the mail and the attached pdf, so we will have more eyes and opinions | 14:38 |
| saggi | #topic open issues | 14:39 |
| yuval | *eyes reading it | 14:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open issues (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:39 | |
| yinweimac | but I'm busy with the integration demo | 14:39 |
| yinweimac | right now | 14:39 |
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| yinweimac | one suggestion is, how about have smaug all services integrated and make them work first? | 14:39 |
| yinweimac | then we start an enhance iteration? | 14:40 |
| saggi | yinweimac: enhance iteration? | 14:40 |
| saggi | oh | 14:40 |
| saggi | sure | 14:40 |
| saggi | yinweimac: Yes, I understand that the demo is high priority | 14:41 |
| yuval | Open issue: I think that we should share on some tasks site (waffle? trello?) the open tasks that people are working on. I finished working on an issue, only to find out that someone already submitted a patch for the same issue. | 14:41 |
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| saggi | We could use trello, dragonflow uses it and they recommend it | 14:41 |
| zengchen | i have one patch need to be merged, otherwise the OperationEngine can not run. can everyone take you time to review it. it stays for a long time. thanks. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/282263 | 14:41 |
| yinweimac | hmm, eran used to have epad to assign tasks | 14:41 |
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| saggi | Yes,but we found it hard to maintain. | 14:42 |
| yinweimac | report bug or bp is an explicit way | 14:42 |
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| chenying_ | I agree with yinwei. | 14:42 |
| saggi | I don't mind using bugs. | 14:42 |
| saggi | But that means that everyone needs to open bugs for the tasks they are working on (if no bug exists) | 14:43 |
| chenying_ | Can record the task using bug or bp. | 14:43 |
| saggi | And tag them as enhancement if they are not actual bugs. | 14:43 |
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| yinweimac | enhancement could be bp? | 14:43 |
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| yinweimac | btw, will the bugs on launch pad be closed automatically if the patch associated with it has been merged? | 14:44 |
| saggi | bp is it's own kind of headache. | 14:44 |
| saggi | yinweimac: They should | 14:44 |
| yuval | yinweimac: I think so | 14:44 |
| yuval | the launchpad bugs/bp system is ok, but I actually think a proper task site is much more convinient | 14:44 |
| yinweimac | ok, let's have a try with trello | 14:45 |
| yuval | but I don't mind either, as long as we really use it | 14:45 |
| yinweimac | both will do for me | 14:45 |
| saggi | Do you guys have access to trello from china? | 14:46 |
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| xiangxinyong | it is ok | 14:46 |
| xiangxinyong | we used it in the last year | 14:46 |
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| saggi | OK | 14:47 |
| saggi | Any other topics? | 14:47 |
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| yuval | Umm | 14:48 |
| yuval | There are some old patches which require some reviews | 14:48 |
| yuval | and some other which are on -1 validation and require work | 14:49 |
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| chenying_ | I have one . When will we start to design and develop the backup and replication plug-in? | 14:49 |
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| saggi | We are working on backup now | 14:50 |
| yinweimac | backup plugin have been developed already | 14:50 |
| chenying_ | sorry It is snapshot | 14:50 |
| saggi | replication will have to wait after we have regular backup working end-to-end | 14:50 |
| saggi | snapshots as well | 14:50 |
| saggi | I'd very much like to get the simple things done first | 14:50 |
| chenying_ | Ok | 14:51 |
| saggi | #action (sagg) Prepare document describing logging issue | 14:51 |
| saggi | just so I don't forget | 14:51 |
| yuval | I will open the Trello board and send the link in #openstack-smaug | 14:51 |
| xiangxinyong | Thanks saggi. | 14:51 |
| saggi | #action (yuval) open trello board | 14:52 |
| saggi | Any other action items I might have forgot? | 14:52 |
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| saggi | Ok, than I think we're done | 14:53 |
| saggi | Thanks everybody | 14:53 |
| yinweimac | thans | 14:53 |
| yinweimac | thanks | 14:53 |
| xiangxinyong | Thanks | 14:53 |
| yinweimac | bye | 14:53 |
| chenying_ | thanks all | 14:53 |
| yuval | thanks, bye | 14:53 |
| xiangxinyong | Bye | 14:53 |
| saggi | #endmeeting | 14:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 19 14:54:04 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-04-19-14.00.html | 14:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-04-19-14.00.txt | 14:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-04-19-14.00.log.html | 14:54 |
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| mriedem | oh, btw, no stable meeting next week | 15:35 |
| mriedem | forgot to announce that | 15:35 |
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| mriedem | oops, wrong channel | 15:36 |
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| mmedvede | #startmeeting third-party | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 19 17:00:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:00 |
| asselin | hi | 17:01 |
| mmedvede | hey asselin | 17:01 |
| mmedvede | I have no announcements | 17:02 |
| asselin | me neither | 17:02 |
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| mmedvede | #topic CI Watch | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI Watch (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:03 | |
| mmedvede | that is me | 17:03 |
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| mmedvede | I did put a couple of days into it last week | 17:03 |
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| mmedvede | the testcase I want to add still requires more refactoring before it can happen | 17:04 |
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| mmedvede | the test is to consume simulated or fake gerrit events and check if they are parsed correctly | 17:05 |
| mmedvede | I hope to push something up this week | 17:06 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: I forgot, are you coming to Austin? | 17:07 |
| asselin | mmedvede, I know I promised reviews. I can do some today b/c despite never ending urgent issues, houston flooding is taking us down, so I have some time finally. | 17:07 |
| ja3 | howdy, sorry I'm late, Notes alarm didn't go off (grr) | 17:07 |
| mmedvede | hi ja3 | 17:07 |
| asselin | mmedvede, no, I won't be there unfortunately | 17:08 |
| asselin | only 1 person from our team is going | 17:08 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: if you could review, would help. I know we got greenlight to self-approve, but I'd rather not abuse it too much | 17:08 |
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| asselin | +1 | 17:10 |
| mmedvede | ok, moving on | 17:10 |
| mmedvede | #topic Common-CI Solution | 17:10 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Common-CI Solution (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:10 | |
| mmedvede | asselin: any updates here? | 17:10 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, no updates. Hearing folks are successful with it, which is good news. | 17:11 |
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| mmedvede | I've heard that too | 17:11 |
| mmedvede | #topic Open Discussion | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:12 | |
| mmedvede | anything to discuss? | 17:13 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: have the flooding took down your servers? | 17:13 |
| asselin | fyi: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/305499/ | 17:13 |
| asselin | mmedvede, yeah....at least they turned off power | 17:14 |
| asselin | mmedvede, not sure if the labs are flooded or not. | 17:14 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, you guys ok? | 17:15 |
| mmedvede | we had our CI down because of internal network problems | 17:16 |
| mmedvede | but I think it has nothing to do with floods | 17:16 |
| mmedvede | Austin had some rain | 17:16 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: I find it very hard to restart the CI after a site-wide outage | 17:17 |
| mmedvede | asselin: especially that nodepool requires zuul to be up if you want to delete any nodes | 17:17 |
| clarkb | mmedvede: I don't think that is true | 17:17 |
| asselin | mmedvede, really? i never noticed that | 17:17 |
| clarkb | mmedvede: we test that use case on every nodepool patch and it works fine | 17:18 |
| mmedvede | clarkb: maybe I have old nodepool? | 17:18 |
| clarkb | maybe? | 17:18 |
| mmedvede | not maybe, we do not use latest | 17:18 |
| clarkb | well it has worked for a while | 17:18 |
| clarkb | anyways nodepool works fine without zuul or jenkins, if you just point it at a cloud it will do its thing | 17:19 |
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| mmedvede | clarkb: ok, that is user error then. thanks for popping in here :) | 17:20 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, I've nothing else. Going to do some reviews and other actions I've been holding off for too long. | 17:21 |
| * mmedvede creates a task to update nodepool again | 17:21 | |
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| mmedvede | asselin: thanks for joining | 17:21 |
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| mmedvede | I have a cloud to restore too :) | 17:21 |
| mmedvede | anything else to discuss? | 17:22 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: you just listening? | 17:22 |
| mmedvede | :) | 17:22 |
| ja3 | yes | 17:22 |
| ja3 | as usual, doing 3 things in parallel | 17:22 |
| mmedvede | I hear you | 17:23 |
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| mmedvede | lets wrap it up then | 17:23 |
| mmedvede | thanks for attending | 17:23 |
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| ja3 | catch you in... 4 weeks I guess | 17:23 |
| ja3 | or are we meeting during the summit? | 17:23 |
| ja3 | not that I'll be there in person... | 17:24 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: I'll be at summit | 17:24 |
| mmedvede | ja3: there next meeting in 2 weeks, I think summit is over by then | 17:24 |
| ja3 | ah right there you go. off by 1 bug. | 17:25 |
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| mmedvede | #endmeeting | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:26 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 19 17:26:02 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:26 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-19-17.00.html | 17:26 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-19-17.00.txt | 17:26 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-19-17.00.log.html | 17:26 |
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| ayoung | KEYSTONERS...drag your carcasses in here | 18:00 |
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| shaleh | \o | 18:00 |
| htruta | o/ | 18:00 |
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| breton | o/ | 18:00 |
| ayoung | stevemar, we gonna do this? | 18:00 |
| henrynash | hi | 18:00 |
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| roxanaghe | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | ayoung: sure :) | 18:00 |
| bkero | o/ | 18:00 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| stevemar | ping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, MaxPC, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tjcocozz, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | hi | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 19 18:00:39 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| * stevemar pokes the bot | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| topol | o/ | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| amakarov | hi | 18:00 |
| stevemar | there it is | 18:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| ayoung | Oyez oyez | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | hey everyone! | 18:01 |
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| crinkle | o/ | 18:01 |
| rderose | o/ | 18:01 |
| raildo | o/ | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | heey | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Main_Agenda | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | agenda isn't too heavy today | 18:01 |
| morgan | \o/ | 18:01 |
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| * morgan waves at everyone... and goes back under a rock. | 18:01 | |
| henrynash | \\\\o//// | 18:01 |
| rodrigods | we have a keystone functional tests job! | 18:01 |
| morgan | henrynash: HEY no upstaging me ;) | 18:01 |
| henrynash | (henry playing the spider)) | 18:01 |
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| htruta | lol | 18:02 |
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| dstanek | early start it seems :-) | 18:02 |
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| gyee | my atomic clocks says 11:02 | 18:02 |
| stevemar | rodrigods: nice! | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | henrynash: i like your ascii style | 18:02 |
| henrynash | (my body clock says time for dinner) | 18:02 |
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| morgan | anyone who doesn't know... Rule 1 of the Summit for Keystone: don't give ayoung a microphone ;) | 18:02 |
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| morgan | ayoung: ^_^ | 18:03 |
| raildo | haha | 18:03 |
| bknudson | my phone sayx 11:05 | 18:03 |
| MaxPC | morgan: unless you want to go over schedule | 18:03 |
| htruta | morgan: but he takes it anyway | 18:03 |
| * ayoung don't need no stinken electronic amplification | 18:03 | |
| morgan | my computer says 11:03 | 18:03 |
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| knikolla | hi | 18:03 |
| dstanek | ayoung: right...we need duct tape | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, Duck tape. | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | It really is Duck...waterproofing | 18:03 |
| morgan | dstanek: gaffer tape | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | 100 mph tape | 18:04 |
| henrynash | (ayoung is indeed, the gaffer) | 18:04 |
| morgan | lol | 18:04 |
| dstanek | ayoung: i never say duck unless i mean that brand, but yes agree | 18:04 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ++ | 18:04 |
| morgan | ooooooookay. so. | 18:04 |
| stevemar | #topic summit prep | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit prep (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
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| stevemar | so, not sure if you all know, there's a summit next week | 18:04 |
| stevemar | in austin, no big deal | 18:04 |
| dolphm | wat | 18:04 |
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| henrynash | everest? | 18:04 |
| gyee | stevemar, I added Federation Enhancements in the new features etherpad | 18:04 |
| dolphm | i should get my plane tickets sorted | 18:04 |
| stevemar | dolphm: you haven't already!? | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | I like the "drinks on topol" subtopic | 18:05 |
| dolphm | stevemar: definitely not | 18:05 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: :) | 18:05 |
| morgan | stevemar: he's probably driving | 18:05 |
| morgan | stevemar: hence the no plane tickets. | 18:05 |
| topol | samueldmq. everybody does | 18:05 |
| stevemar | morgan: ... | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:05 |
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| samueldmq | topol: o/ | 18:05 |
| stevemar | morgan: do i really need sarcasm tags, with you! | 18:05 |
| amakarov | samueldmq, iirc it was "hp pays" :) | 18:05 |
| dstanek | dolphm: spending 2 hours in the airport to avoid the 1.5 hour drive seems reasonable! | 18:05 |
| dolphm | morgan: lbragstad and i are being chauffeured | 18:05 |
| topol | dstanek LOL | 18:05 |
| morgan | stevemar: best part is... #trollsuccess | 18:05 |
| morgan | ;) | 18:05 |
| stevemar | morgan: dammit! | 18:05 |
| gyee | driving with a boat? | 18:06 |
| morgan | gyee: not cause then they'd be "on a boat"... | 18:06 |
| stevemar | Schedule for Design sessions: https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Keystone%3A | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | amakarov: : x | 18:06 |
| stevemar | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Keystone%3A | 18:06 |
| stevemar | we have 5 fishbowls | 18:07 |
| gyee | I heard we may need a boat to get around | 18:07 |
| stevemar | meaning the ones with lots of chairs and a projector | 18:07 |
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| stevemar | I made the generic (thanks for the suggestion ayoung), so topics are stability, integration, testing, clients, new features | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | where does moving to Fernet fit in there> | 18:08 |
| ayoung | ? | 18:08 |
| stevemar | you can find etherpads on the actual schedule link, or here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Newton/Etherpads#Keystone | 18:08 |
| ayoung | stability? | 18:08 |
| stevemar | ayoung: yep: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-keystone-stabilization | 18:08 |
| ayoung | cool | 18:08 |
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| stevemar | i know some of you have separate etherpads going, if its not too hard, try to copy the content onto the one central (or at least link it) | 18:09 |
| raildo | ayoung: https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/summit-schedule/events/9145 | 18:09 |
| stevemar | rderose for instance ^ | 18:09 |
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| bknudson | what's the topic for the work sessions? | 18:09 |
| morgan | bknudson: work work </warcraft> | 18:09 |
| stevemar | bknudson: basically, yeah | 18:09 |
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| morgan | bknudson: or zug zug | 18:09 |
| stevemar | last time i tried to have topics for the work sessions that didn't seem to go over well, agree? | 18:10 |
| breton | yep | 18:10 |
| rderose | stevemar: okay | 18:10 |
| henrynash | stevemar: ++ | 18:10 |
| breton | everyone worked on different things | 18:10 |
| stevemar | i'd rather just give us time to work on some of the things we discuss in the fishbowl | 18:10 |
| shaleh | the discussions at the summit tend to push the work sessions in certain directions | 18:11 |
| shaleh | hard to know ahead of time what those are | 18:11 |
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| stevemar | agreed | 18:11 |
| stevemar | which is why i left them blank | 18:11 |
| dolphm | stevemar: what's the difference between work sessions and contributors meetup? in one of those, we had parallel work streams going on in small groups for sure | 18:11 |
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| rderose | where does rolling upgrades fit? stabilization? | 18:11 |
| dolphm | rderose: work session? | 18:11 |
| stevemar | rderose: i'd say so | 18:11 |
| amakarov | stevemar, it would be good to focus on owning features by the most number of participants possible | 18:11 |
| henrynash | rederose: I think that is database upgrades under stabalization? | 18:12 |
| stevemar | amakarov: agreed! | 18:12 |
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| stevemar | amakarov: owner + dedicated reviewer | 18:12 |
| stevemar | reviewer(s) | 18:12 |
| rderose | henrynash: cool, thx | 18:12 |
| stevemar | dolphm: the work sessions are the ones with parallel work streams in small groups/pairs | 18:13 |
| amakarov | stevemar, it's always simpleir to review things you understand what are they about :) | 18:13 |
| bknudson | the code should be written so that everybody understands it | 18:13 |
| breton | bknudson: ++ | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | amakarov, ++ | 18:13 |
| bknudson | otherwise we couldn't maintain it anyways | 18:13 |
| stevemar | any other summit-y type of questions? | 18:13 |
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| stevemar | i'm excited to see everyone again :D | 18:14 |
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| stevemar | also, it's on the agenda, so it's official "drinks on topol" | 18:14 |
| amakarov | stevemar, can we add some final part to worksessions were people brief others what they've done? | 18:14 |
| raildo | topol: yay \o/ | 18:14 |
| rodrigods | topol, again?! heh | 18:14 |
| stevemar | amakarov: hmm, is there something you had in mind? | 18:14 |
| * topol time to figure out some loop holes | 18:14 | |
| dstanek | topol: likes it, really he does | 18:14 |
| gyee | how do we find topol? | 18:15 |
| ayoung | gyee, that is never a problem | 18:15 |
| rodrigods | gyee, topol finds you | 18:15 |
| stevemar | amakarov: like - "what did i accomplish in this work session?" | 18:15 |
| gyee | hah | 18:15 |
| amakarov | stevemar, yep - do something like a stan-up at the end of every worksession | 18:15 |
| topol | gyee, easy Im gonna head to blacks BBQ sunday night | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | I like that plan | 18:15 |
| gyee | ++ | 18:15 |
| stevemar | amakarov: we could try that if you'd like | 18:15 |
| stevemar | amakarov: just remind me | 18:15 |
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| rodrigods | worth trying | 18:15 |
| stevemar | amakarov: you think it'll help keep us on track? | 18:16 |
| amakarov | stevemar, I'd be honored, but what others think about it? ;) | 18:16 |
| amakarov | stevemar, hope so | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | topol: I tried Rudy's BBQ last time, was great | 18:16 |
| dolphm | amakarov: +++ | 18:16 |
| stevemar | amakarov: should only take 5 minutes :P | 18:16 |
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| amakarov | stevemar, for seasoned scrummers - yes )) | 18:17 |
| topol | samueldmq... Rudys is mediocre at best. Way better in Austin. Ask the locals | 18:17 |
| dolphm | also, work sessions should share a single etherpad - so we don't have notes and stuff scattered everywhere | 18:17 |
| stevemar | amakarov: let's do it then | 18:17 |
| stevemar | dolphm: good call | 18:17 |
| amakarov | stevemar, 5 minutes per work item otherwise | 18:17 |
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| rderose | dolphm: ++ | 18:17 |
| topol | dolphm Great idea | 18:17 |
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| stevemar | dolphm: i'll create some etherpads | 18:17 |
| bknudson | Hopefully we'll have stronger chairs. | 18:17 |
| stevemar | amakarov: i'll cut people off after 30 seconds :) | 18:17 |
| henrynash | (my connection will drop for 10 mins…back in soon) | 18:17 |
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| lbragstad | bknudson bah - I forgot about that | 18:17 |
| ayoung | Almost tempted to work up something like a gant chart to track all the things we have in flight. | 18:18 |
| stevemar | ayoung: it's a lot! | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: i literally mean 1 etherpad for all topics in all work sessions :) with a section for each topic covered there. a lot of work session items will span multiple timeslots, so there's no point in having an etherpad per timeslot | 18:18 |
| * topol wondering if amakarov has new cool Russian tshirts | 18:18 | |
| ayoung | stevemar, its the dependencies that are starting to get hard to track. | 18:18 |
| stevemar | dolphm: thanks for the clarification :) | 18:18 |
| stevemar | dolphm: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-keystone-work-session | 18:19 |
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| * amakarov adds an action item: "Find cool Russian t-shirt" | 18:19 | |
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| stevemar | hehe | 18:19 |
| ayoung | amakarov, in Austin, Cool Russian T-Shirt finds YOU! | 18:19 |
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| stevemar | alright, thats it for summit, any other questions ask me in -keystone | 18:20 |
| amakarov | ayoung, I remember - Austin is weird | 18:20 |
| stevemar | #topic Functional testing setup | 18:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Functional testing setup (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:20 | |
| stevemar | breton: ^ | 18:20 |
| breton | there was a similar spec some time ago that was moved to superseded | 18:20 |
| breton | so i decided to suggest another one | 18:20 |
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| breton | tldr: a devstack plugin in a separate repository that would set up things. | 18:20 |
| breton | https://review.openstack.org/307371 | 18:20 |
| breton | first i proposed to implement a plugin for federation only. I've received some feedback to make it more general and set up all functional testing related things. I have done it. | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | breton, one doubt: you mean move keystone/keystone_tempest_plugin to there? | 18:21 |
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| rodrigods | that was one doubt i had | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | and forgot to ask in the review | 18:21 |
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| breton | rodrigods: no | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | so... what is that? | 18:21 |
| ayoung | so...can I suggest that we use Ipsilon for testing? K2K will only get us SAML, and we'd like to test OpenIDC as well | 18:21 |
| breton | rodrigods: the plugin will do only set up. Like installing shibboleth. | 18:22 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, ++ | 18:22 |
| rodrigods | breton, hmmm | 18:22 |
| rodrigods | now everything makes sense | 18:22 |
| ayoung | shib isnot going to do OPENIDC, is it? | 18:22 |
| rodrigods | stevemar, even the name ^ | 18:22 |
| dstanek | breton: if it doesn't live in keystone do we create another repo for it? | 18:22 |
| breton | dstanek: yes | 18:22 |
| dstanek | breton: any reason for that/ | 18:22 |
| bknudson | is it just the plugin that's in a repo or also the tests? | 18:23 |
| amakarov | dstanek, what do you think, may implementing SAML in keystone be easier solution? | 18:23 |
| stevemar | ayoung: it wouldn't no | 18:23 |
| breton | dstanek: the plugin expects that it has a /devstack directory in the root of the repo | 18:23 |
| dstanek | amakarov: easier than? | 18:23 |
| breton | there is an alternative to a plugin in a repo -- create directory /devstack in the Keystone tree. | 18:23 |
| amakarov | dstanek, than devstack plugin in separate repo | 18:23 |
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| henrynash | (back) | 18:23 |
| ayoung | its still WIP, but Patrick is still cranking on it. Is there a comparable tech to Shibboleth for OpenIDC? Something we'd have the repo set up? | 18:24 |
| breton | bknudson: just the code that does setup. Installing and configuring shibboleth etc | 18:24 |
| dstanek | amakarov: we'll still need devstack plugins even if you guys like the saml2 stuff i'm working on | 18:24 |
| stevemar | yep | 18:24 |
| bknudson | I'm fine with the devstack plugin being in keystone | 18:24 |
| morgan | bknudson: ++ | 18:24 |
| amakarov | breton, /devstack in keystone tree is cool | 18:24 |
| bknudson | it would provide useful documentation | 18:24 |
| dstanek | breton: i'd rather it be in keystone so it's easier to manage | 18:25 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, ++ | 18:25 |
| topol | dstanek ++ | 18:25 |
| dstanek | breton: did you see how i implemented my devstack plugins? | 18:25 |
| rodrigods | move the work in /tests/functional to /devstack than? | 18:25 |
| bknudson | I hope the tests are still in /tests. | 18:25 |
| breton | i've split it into 2 patches -- https://review.openstack.org/307371 Functional testing setup and https://review.openstack.org/307960 Federation testing setup (which uses the repo in the previous spec) | 18:25 |
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| breton | dstanek: yes, i have | 18:25 |
| breton | bknudson: the tests are in tempest_plugin_keystone | 18:26 |
| dstanek | breton: that was modeled after what the gate really does | 18:26 |
| breton | bknudson: in fact, there is no strong preference, i think we can still have them in /tests | 18:26 |
| ayoung | breton, nice | 18:26 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, breton, if we are going to use the tempest plugin | 18:27 |
| rodrigods | it should remain there | 18:27 |
| rodrigods | the setup is different from the tests | 18:27 |
| breton | yep. Usage of tempest plugin is optional for the spec. | 18:27 |
| bknudson | if you use the plugin, you can run more tests | 18:27 |
| * ayoung likes where this is going | 18:27 | |
| bknudson | is it automatic where more tests run, or is it a config option to enable it? | 18:28 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, btw, did you see the job has been merged? | 18:28 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, ++ | 18:28 |
| bknudson | rodrigods: I did. Waiting to see results. If it works, make it voting. | 18:28 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, ++ | 18:28 |
| breton | bknudson: what is automatic? | 18:28 |
| bknudson | breton: if the plugin is available, will federation tests run? | 18:28 |
| breton | bknudson: no. The devstack plugin does only set up. Nothing related to tests. | 18:29 |
| breton | (i should probably cut out tempest-related things from the spec) | 18:29 |
| bknudson | or do the tests have to be configured to run the federation tests? | 18:29 |
| dstanek | bknudson: i think we'd need another job to use the plugin and run the tests | 18:29 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: that would make sense | 18:30 |
| breton | dstanek: or modify existing one | 18:30 |
| stevemar | i always thought that each test suite would have a different job | 18:30 |
| dstanek | unfortunately the details are superseded http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone-specs/tree/superseded/functional-testing-setup.rst | 18:30 |
| breton | dstanek: (if we use tempest plugin; the modification would be minimal) | 18:30 |
| dstanek | you wouldn't want to use the same setup for all test runs | 18:31 |
| breton | why not? People have a lot of things running at the same time in production. | 18:31 |
| bknudson | might be a problem if there was a conflict where 2 things could run at the same time for some reason | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: i did that to clean up the repo, i can move it around | 18:31 |
| dstanek | bknudson: exactly | 18:32 |
| bknudson | but there's no conflict with the base tests and federation, right? | 18:32 |
| dstanek | i don't believe there is at this point | 18:32 |
| bknudson | there would be a conflict if you had a test for sql and for ldap | 18:32 |
| breton | bknudson: probably there should be multiple plugins then. A plugin to set up federation, a plugin to set up rabbit etc. | 18:33 |
| rodrigods | makes sense | 18:33 |
| breton | multiple plugins == multiple repos | 18:33 |
| rodrigods | why? | 18:33 |
| rodrigods | not subfolders? | 18:33 |
| bknudson | lets start with one repo and worry about multiple later. | 18:33 |
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| dstanek | breton: we already have too many repos :-) | 18:33 |
| breton | rodrigods: because devstack plugins are supposed to live in a git repo. | 18:33 |
| ayoung | do LDAP in DSBE only | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | can we deprecate LDAP as the identity backend an only support Domain Specific? | 18:34 |
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| rodrigods | we can use git submodules than | 18:34 |
| dstanek | rodrigods: no, please, no | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, lol ok | 18:35 |
| breton | OK, so for now i suggest to have a plugin in Keystone main tree that would do setup of all components. If they break or conflict in the future, decouple them into repositories. | 18:35 |
| amakarov | breton, ++ | 18:36 |
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| rodrigods | breton, ++ | 18:36 |
| stevemar | sounds okay for now | 18:36 |
| amakarov | one step at a time | 18:36 |
| knikolla | breton: ++ | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | the approach may change when it happens too | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | yeah, let's start simpler | 18:36 |
| breton | this won't break any architecture or whatever. | 18:36 |
| dstanek | breton: we're talking devstack plugin right? not tempest plugin | 18:36 |
| breton | dstanek: yes | 18:36 |
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| breton | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/devstack/plugins.html#plugins | 18:37 |
| dstanek | breton: ok, i modeled the /dsvm/* paths based on what the other projects where doing | 18:37 |
| breton | dstanek: maybe they didn't know about devstack plugins, because they are not so old | 18:37 |
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| bknudson | there's no dsvm paths that I can find? | 18:38 |
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| dstanek | that very well could be | 18:38 |
| roxanaghe | breton, would this plugin be able to setup ldap backend as well? | 18:38 |
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| bknudson | there's ./ironic/ironic_tempest_plugin | 18:38 |
| dstanek | bknudson: maybe they've move to plugins? | 18:38 |
| rodrigods | yeah, ironic uses /devstack | 18:38 |
| rodrigods | for example | 18:38 |
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| rodrigods | dstanek, there is a issue with the tempest plugin naming | 18:38 |
| breton | roxanaghe: afaik you don't need a plugin to set up LDAP backend, i thought that devstack can do that out of the box | 18:38 |
| rodrigods | we must have "keystone" in it | 18:38 |
| ayoung | lets have a "get LDAP testing a reality hackfest" at the summit | 18:38 |
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| rodrigods | ayoung, ++ | 18:39 |
| ayoung | devstack can do it, and then we need to do the DSBE stuff...not huge | 18:39 |
| roxanaghe | breton, that's what I know as well, we just need to enable that in devstack | 18:39 |
| breton | roxanaghe: i think you meant in the gates | 18:39 |
| ayoung | one big use case is to transition people that were using LDAP as the Identity backend to SQL with DSBE. THus, the LDAP backed domain has to be V2 | 18:40 |
| roxanaghe | breton, right :) | 18:40 |
| ayoung | "Default" domain | 18:40 |
| dstanek | rodrigods: easy fix | 18:40 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, ? | 18:40 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: ldap working hackfest, i like it | 18:40 |
| dstanek | rodrigods: fixing the naming | 18:40 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, ahh, sure | 18:40 |
| bknudson | if tempest is forcing us to use a name we don't want we should fix tempest | 18:40 |
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| rodrigods | bknudson, it is just how the tox plugin does the discovery | 18:41 |
| rodrigods | it looks for the folder name | 18:41 |
| rodrigods | inside the repo | 18:41 |
| breton | I am going to code some things by the summit so that you could discuss | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: I don't like having to name "keystone" inside keystone too | 18:41 |
| stevemar | breton: PoC would be great :) | 18:42 |
| breton | yep | 18:42 |
| stevemar | alright, time for next topic | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | So...can we open discussion now? | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, should be quick | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | my topic | 18:43 |
| stevemar | ayoung: quick topic first | 18:43 |
| stevemar | #topic Add protocol to identity provider using nonexistent mapping | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add protocol to identity provider using nonexistent mapping (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:43 | |
| stevemar | rodrigods: ^ | 18:43 |
| gyee | just do it! | 18:43 |
| stevemar | gyee: lol | 18:43 |
| ayoung | ? | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | ok... so for federation we have 3 entities | 18:43 |
| stevemar | bug 1571878 | 18:43 |
| openstack | bug 1571878 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Add protocol to identity provider using nonexistent mapping" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1571878 - Assigned to Ron De Rose (ronald-de-rose) | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | idp, protocol and mapping | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | we can create a protocol using a nonexistent mapping | 18:44 |
| ayoung | I thought that mapping was enforced | 18:44 |
| henrynash | rodigods: use case being? | 18:44 |
| bknudson | what happens when it tries to use the mapping and it doesn't exist? | 18:44 |
| rodrigods | but i'd suggest to have clear steps here | 18:44 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, blows up, i guess | 18:44 |
| rodrigods | didn't try it | 18:44 |
| rodrigods | 1 - create idp | 18:44 |
| rodrigods | 2 - create mapping | 18:44 |
| gyee | bknudson, you'll get a nice 500 return code | 18:44 |
| henrynash | rodigods: ah sorry, I thought this was a feature you wanted! | 18:44 |
| rodrigods | 3 - create protocol | 18:44 |
| bknudson | that doesn't seem very friendly | 18:44 |
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| rodrigods | so... we'd enforce the mapping_id while creating/updating the protocol | 18:45 |
| rodrigods | that's it... we even have someone willing to fix | 18:45 |
| rodrigods | rderose, ^ | 18:45 |
| gyee | we can't have more than one mapping per protocol anyway | 18:45 |
| gyee | I would even argue that they shouldn't even be separate resource | 18:45 |
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| bknudson | you can share mappings | 18:45 |
| rderose | rodrigods: ++ :) | 18:45 |
| rodrigods | i have some tests that exposes this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/307508/2/keystone_tempest_plugin/tests/api/identity/v3/test_identity_providers.py | 18:46 |
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| bknudson | your tests are going to break! | 18:46 |
| bknudson | what if someone is relying on this broken behavior? | 18:46 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, nope! they are not waiting for an error | 18:46 |
| gyee | bknudson, sharing mapping? | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: yes, someone maybe has built tools around this | 18:46 |
| ayoung | gyee, you are probably right | 18:46 |
| ayoung | could we merge mapping into protocol? | 18:46 |
| rodrigods | samueldmq, bknudson, V10 driver? | 18:46 |
| ayoung | gyee, hmmm, except for testing cycle...would be nice to be able to swap between mappings | 18:47 |
| gyee | we already allow multiple *rules* per mapping | 18:47 |
| samueldmq | rodrigods: it's not about the driver, but the API behavior being changed | 18:47 |
| gyee | so in essence, you have multiple maps | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | yeah, we torqued that one up big time | 18:47 |
| rodrigods | samueldmq, hmm right | 18:47 |
| samueldmq | rodrigods: I think bknudson is concerned about people already doing it in other order, that isn't the one you propose | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | so - we essentially need to require this attribute in the jsonschema https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/e380a3c005aa1c045bc15ef884edf3d0e20032f7/keystone/federation/schema.py#L110 | 18:47 |
| ayoung | so...yeah, lets fix that one. | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | so that tooling would be broken if we "fix" it | 18:48 |
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| bknudson | here's the stability guidelines: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/guidelines/evaluating_api_changes.html#guidance | 18:48 |
| ayoung | for now, yes, only allow a protocol create/update with a valid mapping id | 18:48 |
| bknudson | which I think argues for continuing to allow this | 18:48 |
| bknudson | we could deprecate the old behavior | 18:48 |
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| rderose | ayoung: ++ | 18:49 |
| ayoung | is there really a problem with it being missing? Does it 500 or something? | 18:49 |
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| rodrigods | A change such that a request which was successful before now results in an error response (unless the success reported previously was hiding an existing error condition). | 18:49 |
| stevemar | whats the harm is having this continue? no user actually reported it (sorry rodrigods) :) | 18:49 |
| dstanek | isn't there a way to make it not 500 and be backward compatible? | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: I think you're right: "A change such that a request which was successful before now results in an error response " is NOT acceptable | 18:49 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, think we fall in the "unless" | 18:49 |
| stevemar | i think we just have to live with this | 18:50 |
| rodrigods | stevemar, i'd vote for deprecate | 18:50 |
| ayoung | We need to put some thought into Federation mapping anyway...needs to be something managable by the Federaiton admins. We should be able to lock down an Idp to map only to a subset of domains | 18:50 |
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| rodrigods | this can just return an error of unauthorized just because the mapping was wrong | 18:50 |
| rderose | ayoung: totally agree | 18:51 |
| rodrigods | not sure, need to verify what happens in this case | 18:51 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung: maybe IdP's could be domain-specific configs, 1-1 relationship | 18:51 |
| gyee | I was asked to implement mapping in Horizon the other day during the meetup talk. :-) | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | Let's fix the 500, make it fail with a 420 or something and focus on the debug/develop side of Federation to mitigate. | 18:51 |
| gyee | changing mapping is like changing policy.json | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | Like the policy tool, someone should be able to say "what would I get IFF I passdin these attributes." | 18:51 |
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| gyee | has all sorts of security implications if we are not careful | 18:51 |
| ayoung | passed | 18:51 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, I argued for 1-1 ad lost , but we can't do that now. | 18:52 |
| gyee | at the minimal, need a mapping validation tool | 18:52 |
| ayoung | We need to say "IdP P can map domains X,y,z" | 18:52 |
| samueldmq | "Changing an error response code to be more accurate." is acceptable as per the API change guideline | 18:52 |
| stevemar | gyee: keystone-manage has one | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | there is the possibility of conflict, etc. | 18:52 |
| gyee | stevemar, it only validate syntax | 18:52 |
| ayoung | but with the shadow table, we should be able to work around that | 18:52 |
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| gyee | samueldmq, we got request to create a Keystone runbook as well | 18:53 |
| ayoung | OK...gonna snag the last 5 minutes if I might | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | gyee: relly ? | 18:54 |
| rodrigods | would be nice to "compile" the mapping upon creation too | 18:54 |
| stevemar | #topic open discussion | 18:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:54 | |
| ayoung | stevemar, ? | 18:54 |
| * stevemar hands ayoung the mic | 18:54 | |
| ayoung | Fernet cannot become default | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | gyee: really? it'd be nice to have it for deferation workflow | 18:54 |
| ayoung | ever | 18:54 |
| gyee | samueldmq, yeah, some need to be automated by monitoring and response system | 18:54 |
| stevemar | ayoung: i agree! | 18:54 |
| ayoung | Fernet is key based. We break multi site with Fernet | 18:54 |
| lbragstad | Me sigh | 18:54 |
| stevemar | it needs too much setup | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | gyee: that's very interesting | 18:54 |
| ayoung | However, we make Fernet the default in DEVstack | 18:55 |
| shaleh | I was wondering when people would realize this | 18:55 |
| samueldmq | gyee: any other workflow than federation? | 18:55 |
| samueldmq | gyee: would be interesting to adopt that idea? | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | we tell the world "Fernet is the expected deployment tool. UUID is for development" | 18:55 |
| shaleh | ayoung: does using a replicated DB for the keys help with the multi-site? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | and if people really bug us "is it ok for small deploys" we grudging sigh and say 'sure' | 18:55 |
| bknudson | this is what https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195780/ does, it changes devstack so if you don't set the KEYSTONE_TOKEN_FORMAT it uses fernet | 18:55 |
| gyee | samueldmq, yes, including federation | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | shaleh, bknudson ++ | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | shaleh, I think it is not our place to try and solve that | 18:56 |
| ayoung | keys are funny things. Lets let the deployers deal with deploying them | 18:56 |
| shaleh | ayoung: as long as our docs are clear I agree | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | gyee: maybe we could do that in the clients and start improving UX there | 18:56 |
| ayoung | syncing them, securing them | 18:56 |
| gyee | bknudson, would that work for multi-instance devstack? | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | gyee: like openstackclient | 18:56 |
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| lbragstad | gyee no | 18:57 |
| bknudson | gyee: it does fernet setup, so probably not. | 18:57 |
| ayoung | bknudson, why the -1 Workflow on that? | 18:57 |
| lbragstad | gyee there isn't anything to sync the key_repository to the other nodes in the deployment | 18:57 |
| bknudson | ayoung: I was asked to add more info to the commit message. | 18:57 |
| dstanek | so multi-instance devstack has no way to do something on one node (like gen certs) and sync to the other? | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | (2 minutes left) | 18:58 |
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| gyee | can we create a "default" key for devstack as its mean for testing only | 18:58 |
| lbragstad | dstanek i'm not sure - but I'd be interested in using that if it exists to sync the key_repository | 18:58 |
| stevemar | ayoung: cause if we have it on by default then it'll be hard to test if keystone's default behaviour :) | 18:58 |
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| samueldmq | gyee: may be an easy workaround | 18:58 |
| ayoung | bknudson, want me to do that? | 18:59 |
| ayoung | I can drop my patch in favor of this | 18:59 |
| bknudson | ayoung: yes. | 18:59 |
| stevemar | ending it..... | 18:59 |
| bknudson | ayoung: I'd do it now but I've got a meeting. | 18:59 |
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| lbragstad | o/ | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: ++ | 18:59 |
| ayoung | I'm on it | 18:59 |
| stevemar | bknudson: you're always in meetings | 18:59 |
| dolphm | if it helps, it'd be fine to do fernet_setup on both devstacks, then overwrite A with B | 18:59 |
| ayoung | bknudson, just drop the -1 | 18:59 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 19 18:59:45 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-04-19-18.00.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-04-19-18.00.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-04-19-18.00.log.html | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | thanks | 18:59 |
| stevemar | evacuate and go to -keystone! | 18:59 |
| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
| bkero | o/ | 19:00 |
| Zara | \o/ | 19:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
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| yolanda | o/ | 19:00 |
| * jeblair eats a just-in-time sandwich | 19:00 | |
| * stevemar steals one of jeblair's fries | 19:00 | |
| *** shaleh has left #openstack-meeting | 19:00 | |
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| * fungi prefers the precompiled variety | 19:00 | |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:00 |
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| * bkero imagines that infra-team form a Voltron where fungi is the head whenever that is said. | 19:00 | |
| clarkb | hello | 19:00 |
| fungi | ...and i'll form the head! | 19:00 |
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| nibalizer | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | ahh, good times | 19:01 |
| * fungi sighs at voltron | 19:01 | |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | we have a shortish agenda, but i'll get going and add a couple chairperson's choice topics at the end, time willing | 19:01 |
| docaedo | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | this week's topics brought to you by: crinkle, yolanda, rcarrillocruz, Zara, pleia2 | 19:02 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 19 19:02:50 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | #info Infra team meeting for April 26 (next week's) is hereby cancelled on account of there's a summit some of us might be attending. Join us again on May 3 at 19:00 UTC for our usual IRC meeting shenanigans. | 19:03 |
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| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-12-19.02.html | 19:03 |
| fungi | "1. (none)" | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | none new this week | 19:03 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud (crinkle, yolanda, rcarrillocruz) | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud (crinkle, yolanda, rcarrillocruz) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| crinkle | hi | 19:04 |
| yolanda | hi | 19:04 |
| fungi | i hear there's some water | 19:04 |
| eil397 | hi | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | hello infra cloud? | 19:04 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | did they relocate our cloud to a lake? | 19:04 |
| *** jeblair sets mode: -o jeblair | 19:04 | |
| crinkle | so we learned this morning that the houston data center was just shut off due to severe flooding in the area | 19:04 |
| yolanda | houston ecopod is shut down | 19:04 |
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| crinkle | we don't know the state of the machines | 19:04 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:05 |
| mordred | wow | 19:05 |
| pabelanger | eep | 19:05 |
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| docaedo | yikes | 19:05 |
| crinkle | but we can guess that this will likely delay our ability to start working on them | 19:05 |
| morgan | kindof scary | 19:05 |
| yolanda | hopefully they won't be swimming on a lake now | 19:05 |
| crinkle | for the summit | 19:05 |
| Zara | o.O | 19:05 |
| crinkle | also the hipchat server was in houston so we can't exactly ask | 19:05 |
| yolanda | so last news i had from the servers were from yesterday | 19:05 |
| fungi | unfortunate, though i guess we won't know more until lake houston recedes | 19:05 |
| yolanda | they had nearly completed the setup, pending on dhcp reconfiguration for ILOs | 19:05 |
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| yolanda | but yes, cannot get more info until this passes | 19:06 |
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| * mordred suggests that in the future, putting datacenters in flood prone areas is less than ideal .. | 19:06 | |
| anteaya | looks like continued rain for the rest of the week | 19:06 |
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| anteaya | I didn't know Houston was flood prone | 19:06 |
| jeblair | mordred: in the future, all areas will be flood prone :( | 19:06 |
| crinkle | so just wanted to let everyone know what was going on and that we might plan to work on non-infra-cloud things during the friday workday | 19:06 |
| fungi | thanks for the heads up! there's still plenty if infracloudish things we can kick around on summit friday even if we don't have machines to do it on | 19:06 |
| anteaya | any area would be flood prone if they got 45 cm rain in 24 hours | 19:06 |
| mordred | anteaya: it's a frequent target of hurricanes | 19:07 |
| bkero | New requirement: datacenters need to be constructed on large pontoons for additional 9s | 19:07 |
| anteaya | mordred: ah, thank you | 19:07 |
| mordred | anteaya: well, yeah. any place would. except for places with an elevation compared to their surroundings of greater than 45cm | 19:07 |
| fungi | anteaya: unfortunately much of our current landmass in north america was once occupied by an inland sea. perhaps it's returning | 19:07 |
| anteaya | mordred: fair enough | 19:07 |
| anteaya | fungi: seems to be a possiblity | 19:07 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:07 |
| fungi | anything else on this topic for now? | 19:08 |
| crinkle | not from me | 19:08 |
| anteaya | I lost my weechat server so won't be online while my compter is off | 19:08 |
| fungi | #topic Storyboard needs a dev server (Zara, pleia2) | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Storyboard needs a dev server (Zara, pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| fungi | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000028 Storyboard needs a dev server | 19:08 |
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| pleia2 | I don't really have much more to add to this, we should provide them one | 19:09 |
| anteaya | pleia2: ++ | 19:09 |
| Zara | hi! :) | 19:09 |
| pleia2 | thoughts? concerns, etc? | 19:09 |
| fungi | concise! | 19:09 |
| anteaya | agreement | 19:09 |
| nibalizer | i thought we had one? | 19:09 |
| Zara | yeah, kind of same from me, detail's in the story (thanks for adding context, fungi) | 19:09 |
| nibalizer | clearly i am mistaken | 19:09 |
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| Zara | I didn't understand the significance of the draft builds at all, so that's interesting | 19:09 |
| fungi | we were going to have one, krotscheck had started some puppeting for it, those changes may still be kicking around in gerrit somewhere | 19:09 |
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| nibalizer | is the idea to build it with puppet or ansible? | 19:10 |
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| nibalizer | "we want to update the user docs, so want to deploy a version with Ansible as non-Ansible-experts" | 19:10 |
| pleia2 | nibalizer: a lot of the notes in that story are old | 19:10 |
| Zara | nibalizer: actually, that one's new | 19:10 |
| pleia2 | we do want puppet, like everything else | 19:11 |
| Zara | we have developer docs for storyboard, and there was a section for operator docs | 19:11 |
| Zara | but the operator docs turned out to be completely wrong | 19:11 |
| clarkb | pleia2: especially since we already puppet ansible | 19:11 |
| nibalizer | haha | 19:11 |
| persia | https://galaxy.ansible.com/palvarez89/storyboard/ may or may not be useful if some ansible is desired | 19:11 |
| fungi | yeah, i think the solution here is to proceed in the direction we started originally... dev/prod puppet classes like we have for other stuff, spin up a second machine with the dev class, add a separate trove db with dummy/sample data or something | 19:11 |
| pleia2 | sounds good, I'm happy to work with the storyboard folks on this post summit | 19:12 |
| nibalizer | me too | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | will pull in help as needed | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | thanks nibalizer! | 19:12 |
| nibalizer | o7 | 19:12 |
| rcarrillocruz | heya | 19:12 |
| Zara | so yeah, at the time, we were thinking 'we should get round to deploying something with ansible, as people who don't know ansible, so we can write docs for setting up wiht that role', and a dev server seemed a way to kill two birds with one stone | 19:12 |
| rcarrillocruz | sorry, raining a bit causing traffic jam back home | 19:12 |
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| nibalizer | Zara: i think a dev server should look very close to our prod server | 19:12 |
| clarkb | rcarrillocruz: are you in houston? | 19:12 |
| rcarrillocruz | :-) | 19:13 |
| Zara | but it's not necessarily part of a dev server setup; it seemed the simplest option at the time (where we thought we might be on our own for it) | 19:13 |
| rcarrillocruz | i was driving a car, not rowing a boat | 19:13 |
| rcarrillocruz | :D | 19:13 |
| SotK | fungi: that approach sounds good to me | 19:13 |
| rcarrillocruz | so no, not in houston yet | 19:13 |
| Zara | so that's the context on that | 19:13 |
| fungi | there's nothing wrong with having multiple dev servers, i just continue to believe that one dev server for it should be hosted where we can point the storyboard-webclient draft jobs | 19:14 |
| * mordred is supportive of a dev server for Zara | 19:14 | |
| anteaya | agreed | 19:14 |
| mordred | if someone wants to get FANCY ... | 19:14 |
| anteaya | and SotK | 19:14 |
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| fungi | but also the goal of having the puppet module be reconsumable is to make it easy for others to set up dev or prod servers of their own | 19:14 |
| mordred | syncing data from prod sb would be neat | 19:14 |
| mordred | on a periodic basis | 19:14 |
| odyssey4me | o/ | 19:14 |
| nibalizer | an ansible role to deploy storyboard is something i think we'd be happy to host and test | 19:15 |
| mordred | but I do not think anyone should block doing the dev server on that | 19:15 |
| anteaya | odyssey4me: you made it! | 19:15 |
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| rcarrillocruz | i'm happy to help with that | 19:15 |
| odyssey4me | anteaya thanks goodness for appointment reminders, which are useful if you've got the dates set right :) | 19:15 |
| fungi | i'm not opposed to having an ansible role for deploying storyboard, but i think that whatever server we're maintaining still needs to be deployed with puppet similar to teh rest of our servers | 19:15 |
| rcarrillocruz | i'm idle-ish on my puppet/ansible tasks lately | 19:15 |
| anteaya | odyssey4me: yay correct dates | 19:15 |
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| anteaya | fungi: agreement | 19:16 |
| fungi | don't want to get into a one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other situation with our server management | 19:16 |
| rcarrillocruz | possibly a puppet module for dev sb, plus an ansible playbook to sync up data and all | 19:16 |
| rcarrillocruz | ? | 19:16 |
| pleia2 | fungi: yeah | 19:16 |
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| Zara | :) thanks, everyone, and yeah, if it's on the same infra, I agree to do it the same way | 19:16 |
| Zara | s/to/we should | 19:16 |
| fungi | okay, so seems like general agreement, and the task was already begun at one point, so should be reasonable to just pick it back up and continue running with it | 19:17 |
| Zara | \o/ | 19:17 |
| nibalizer | no | 19:17 |
| nibalizer | the puppet module for storyboard should deploy both serevrs | 19:17 |
| nibalizer | with slightly different inputs | 19:17 |
| fungi | right, that's what i meant about having two classes (implication was in system-config) | 19:18 |
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| fungi | both using a generalized storyboard puppet module | 19:18 |
| nibalizer | and generally i feel that our pattern of two classes isn't correct | 19:18 |
| nibalizer | we should really only need one with differen inputs | 19:19 |
| * fungi handwaves | 19:19 | |
| nibalizer | but i'm not exactly volunteering to do that refactor | 19:19 |
| fungi | you prefer we abstract our differing inputs out into the global site manifest? (or hiera something something?) | 19:19 |
| nibalizer | anyways i think we have consensus | 19:19 |
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| fungi | okay, cool | 19:19 |
| fungi | no need to beat this to death in-meeting. moving on | 19:19 |
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| rcarrillocruz | ++ | 19:20 |
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| nibalizer | yep | 19:20 |
| rcarrillocruz | the prod/dev classes is horrible | 19:20 |
| fungi | #topic Infra-cloud changes needed with new setup: east/west, network ranges (crinkle, yolanda, rcarrillocruz) | 19:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Infra-cloud changes needed with new setup: east/west, network ranges (crinkle, yolanda, rcarrillocruz) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:20 | |
| yolanda | hi | 19:20 |
| yolanda | so with the movement,we don't have east/west | 19:20 |
| yolanda | everything ended into the same network | 19:20 |
| yolanda | so I wanted to raise the topic about the two clouds separation now | 19:20 |
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| yolanda | do we still want to keep them separate? if so, what about the naming, network ranges, etc? | 19:21 |
| clarkb | I think having two clouds is a good idea, then we can do staggered upgrades and have no shared data or services | 19:21 |
| mordred | ya++ | 19:21 |
| clarkb | which fits into our original model of completely tearing it down an drebuilding it as the upgrade path | 19:21 |
| crinkle | yeah i think we still wanted that logical separation for that ^ | 19:21 |
| fungi | as in should we continue with the plan we discussed in ft. collins to assign hosts to one "cloud" or the other and then assign them separate public network allocations? | 19:21 |
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| nibalizer | separation++ | 19:21 |
| mordred | sounds right | 19:21 |
| jeblair | ++ | 19:22 |
| fungi | or really we can even stick with the same netblocks/upstream gateways/routes i think and just adjust the assignment ranges in neutron? | 19:22 |
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| yolanda | so in terms of network, with have a /19 public range now, so we split that in two, and have the same numbers of servers in both? | 19:22 |
| clarkb | as far as names we could continue to call them east and west just to be confusing :) | 19:22 |
| yolanda | and east/west, sounds confusing | 19:22 |
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| fungi | vanilla cloud, chocolate cloud | 19:22 |
| clarkb | or cloud1 cloud2 | 19:22 |
| * fungi engages in the bikeshed | 19:22 | |
| mordred | cloud1/cloud2++ | 19:22 |
| yolanda | also, the number of servers in east/west was so unequal, this can be a good opportunity to rebalance the servers, and have the same numbers on both | 19:23 |
| jeblair | i like vanilla/chocolate :) | 19:23 |
| clarkb | yolanda: ++ | 19:23 |
| fungi | RegionOne and RegionNone! | 19:23 |
| nibalizer | i like vanilla chocolate | 19:23 |
| morgan | mordred: ++ | 19:23 |
| yolanda | ++ for vanilla chocolate | 19:23 |
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| nibalizer | splitting the server baesd on hardware class makes sense to me | 19:23 |
| rcarrillocruz | yeah, although vanilla could tell people there's a special custom flavor on chocolate :D | 19:23 |
| clarkb | yolanda: for the networking I think we get the most flexibility if we do split it between the clouds | 19:23 |
| rcarrillocruz | as in | 19:23 |
| nibalizer | we had 3 different models | 19:23 |
| rcarrillocruz | vanilla kernel | 19:23 |
| rcarrillocruz | vanilla cloud | 19:23 |
| fungi | yeah, i was wondering if we should be grouping by model, roughly | 19:23 |
| rcarrillocruz | anyway, bikeshedding... | 19:23 |
| crinkle | there is different hardware in west and east so there might end up being differences, like in the mellanox cards | 19:23 |
| clarkb | yolanda: in theory because we use provider networks we don't need to do that but will let us move away from that in the future | 19:23 |
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| clarkb | crinkle: ya, I have a feeling that it will be best effort due to that | 19:24 |
| jeblair | would it make sense to do 3 clouds then? | 19:24 |
| nibalizer | ya so split clouds, vanilla/chocolate naming scheme, and split on hardware type | 19:24 |
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| fungi | strawberry, obviously | 19:24 |
| jeblair | ya | 19:24 |
| yolanda | shiny new hardware on one cloud, crap hardware on the other? | 19:24 |
| fungi | so we can be neopolitan | 19:24 |
| jeblair | is the 3rd model type different enough to warrant that? | 19:24 |
| crinkle | cookiedoughcloud | 19:24 |
| nibalizer | i highly doubt anything is 'shiny new' | 19:24 |
| yolanda | old vs oldest? | 19:25 |
| crinkle | haha | 19:25 |
| nibalizer | sure | 19:25 |
| fungi | really old, and really really old | 19:25 |
| nibalizer | point is if we have to firmware upgrade the mellanox cards or the whatever that would affect only one cloud | 19:25 |
| nibalizer | which i think is more our style than trying to run 2 clouds at half capacity | 19:26 |
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| fungi | yeah, i see the most benefit from roughly splitting by server models, where we can | 19:26 |
| jeblair | what are the 3 classes? | 19:26 |
| crinkle | i think grouping servers in a rack together makes sense, in case they decide they want to move one or a switch goes down on one | 19:26 |
| jeblair | i only see two in http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/infra-cloud.html | 19:26 |
| fungi | crinkle: any chance the racks are mostly one model or another? | 19:27 |
| nibalizer | unfortunately that lacks model numbers | 19:27 |
| yolanda | crinkle, do you have the rack diagrams handy? not on vpn now | 19:27 |
| rcarrillocruz | crinkle: that's a good suggestion | 19:27 |
| rcarrillocruz | like that | 19:27 |
| crinkle | fungi: i think west the west rack is moreorless one model, east may be a couple different models | 19:27 |
| nibalizer | crinkle: i think grouping servers by geolocation is good too | 19:27 |
| crinkle | yolanda: nope i do not | 19:27 |
| rcarrillocruz | cos it's pretty common to lose availability in racks | 19:27 |
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| nibalizer | probably better than grouping by hardware classification | 19:27 |
| yolanda | i can get those tomorrow, there are listed on a jira ticket | 19:27 |
| jeblair | can we update the documentation to reflect reality? | 19:28 |
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| yolanda | oh wait, i have a copy on email | 19:28 |
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| fungi | sure. it looked like they were doing 802.3ad lag cross-device for uplinks, but still if we're not aggregating at teh host level then a switch outage is still going to impact half a rack | 19:28 |
| jeblair | i feel a little in the dark here. i agree that in principle having a cloud for each of our major configurations sounds reasonable, but i don't know how many that is, or whether the differences are substantial. | 19:29 |
| yolanda | so we have rack 5, 8, 9, 12, and 13 | 19:29 |
| yolanda | nice | 19:29 |
| fungi | also, i'm with jeblair here, our docs should ideally grow at least a loose rack diagram with host names, and then we should have some table somewhere mapping up models to host names/ranges | 19:29 |
| yolanda | i can take care of that | 19:29 |
| crinkle | thanks yolanda | 19:30 |
| fungi | makes it easier to reason about stuff like this | 19:30 |
| fungi | thanks! | 19:30 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 19:30 |
| yolanda | yep, we better have all documentation on place, then decide | 19:30 |
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| fungi | okay, anything else on this front? | 19:31 |
| yolanda | not from my side | 19:31 |
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| fungi | #topic Contact address for donated test resources | 19:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Contact address for donated test resources (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:32 | |
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| fungi | this is something i'd like to get a little consensus, mostly from the root sysadmin team on | 19:32 |
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| fungi | we had a service provider donating resources to us try to reach out to let us know our service was expiring | 19:32 |
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| fungi | the address we gave to contact us is a dumping ground for backscatter from gerrit and other sources of e-mail | 19:33 |
| fungi | which nobody looks at afaik | 19:33 |
| fungi | it's on a webmail service | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | we look at it when we know we need to look there | 19:33 |
| fungi | yeah | 19:33 |
| fungi | i hopped on there today and it had almost 25k unread messages | 19:34 |
| fungi | wondering whether anyone objects to splitting that up and not pointing service provider accounts at that | 19:34 |
| mordred | we should probably have a root-spam@ and a root-important@ | 19:34 |
| nibalizer | ya | 19:34 |
| nibalizer | i would read mail forwarded to me from a root-important@ | 19:34 |
| mordred | I think having a place that does not get cron or gerrit emails that we can point account signup things to would be great | 19:34 |
| fungi | this is more or less what i was considering | 19:35 |
| nibalizer | yes | 19:35 |
| clarkb | mordred: +1 | 19:35 |
| yolanda | mordred ++ | 19:35 |
| pabelanger | agreed | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | and seems likely I'd have less of a bounce problem if I was just getting -important | 19:35 |
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| mordred | of course, we probalby need the main root-important@ alias, and then probably more than one alias pointing to it - because at some places we need more than one email to sign up for more than one account | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | (my gmail usage means we turned it off entirely for me) | 19:36 |
| fungi | we could i suppose have a "hidden" ml at lists.o.o and subscribe interested infra-root members (since they're the only ones who have access to the logins for those services) | 19:36 |
| jeblair | pleia2: this is not the same thing as that | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: oh | 19:36 |
| pabelanger | fungi: I would be okay with that too | 19:36 |
| nibalizer | mordred: +parts? | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: that is mail to root from systems | 19:36 |
| mordred | nibalizer: maybe so | 19:36 |
| jeblair | pleia2: this is mail from external services | 19:36 |
| fungi | yeah, this particular address currently does not go directly to any of us | 19:36 |
| nibalizer | i love getting email from humans | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: ah yes, we do have two email accounts | 19:36 |
| fungi | it goes into a webmail account in rackspace and rots until someone goes spelunking | 19:36 |
| nibalizer | i hate getting email from robots | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | er, config things | 19:36 |
| mordred | I don't REALLY like human email | 19:36 |
| mordred | but I'll deal with it | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | this would still pretty much all be from robots | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | just fewer of them | 19:37 |
| rocky_g | mordred, ++ | 19:37 |
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| fungi | some of my best friends are robots, after all | 19:37 |
| nibalizer | well lets try it | 19:37 |
| anteaya | hopefully saying important things | 19:37 |
| nibalizer | move a couple accounts to the new addr and see if it seems like its working, then move the rest | 19:37 |
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| fungi | so the main question was hidden list in mailman vs aliases forwarder somewhere? | 19:37 |
| jeblair | fungi: mlist sounds good; though as mordred mentions, we'll need at least 2. | 19:38 |
| pabelanger | mailman+ | 19:38 |
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| fungi | sure, that's really no harder than one ;) | 19:38 |
| jeblair | (but one can obviously just be tied to the other) | 19:38 |
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| fungi | and the only reason i say "hidden" is so that the general population doesn't think it's a way to reach us for support | 19:39 |
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| anteaya | well also I think the archives should be hidden too | 19:39 |
| jeblair | fungi: also, this will be a vector for compromising our cloud accounts | 19:39 |
| anteaya | as the posts may contain credentials or other sensitive information | 19:39 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: ah hrm | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: so, not archived at all :) | 19:40 |
| anteaya | even better | 19:40 |
| fungi | jeblair: anteaya: correct | 19:40 |
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| fungi | and a very good point | 19:40 |
| fungi | so now wondering if an ml alias somewhere more secure wouldn't be a better idea | 19:40 |
| fungi | er, e-mail alias, non-ml | 19:41 |
| jeblair | if we're worried about a mailman bug opening that up, better to stick with a redirect, though we don't have a great host for that. | 19:41 |
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| fungi | a very small vm? | 19:41 |
| jeblair | might be able to just set up forwarding addresses (without being real accounts) on the foundation mail server, but i'm not positive, and that has limited access for us | 19:41 |
| bkero | porque no procmail? | 19:42 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: i think that might be the way to do it | 19:42 |
| nibalizer | just configure it with a rule to forward | 19:42 |
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| fungi | the current keys to the kingdom are on a server which we probably don't want processing inbound e-mail from the internet | 19:42 |
| mordred | no. probably not | 19:42 |
| fungi | so i'm feeling more and more like a separate very tiny vm would be more suitable, as much as i hate to suggest that | 19:43 |
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| anteaya | the best bad idea going it sounds like | 19:43 |
| fungi | also stopping using @openstack.org for it means that we're reducing at least some of the risk exposure for compromising our accounts | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | mark my words -- we'll be running a cyrus server in no time. :) | 19:44 |
| fungi | somealias@somehost.openstack.org instead | 19:44 |
| clarkb | would a simple forward not work? | 19:44 |
| fungi | clarkb: simple forward where and how from what to what? | 19:44 |
| dougwig | jeblair: *shudder* | 19:44 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i think that is the idea under discussion. | 19:44 |
| clarkb | or require all infra root to imap the existing account | 19:44 |
| clarkb | fungi: from current account to each of our personal accounts | 19:44 |
| clarkb | or invert it and pull via map | 19:44 |
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| fungi | that's an option i hadn't considered, though the existing account is a wasteland of terrible. best to cut our losses there | 19:44 |
| jeblair | clarkb: oh, well the current account gets all of the backscatter from everything. | 19:45 |
| fungi | option being imap the current account | 19:45 |
| clarkb | ok filter on to infra-root or wheatever | 19:45 |
| clarkb | that isn't unsolvable aiui | 19:45 |
| jeblair | to be clear, the current account is exactly what we already want -- it's just too much of what we want :) | 19:45 |
| fungi | i don't know about setting up a forward from the current account. we *might* have that ability in the mailbox configuration | 19:45 |
| jeblair | fungi: we do | 19:45 |
| dougwig | i'd also suggest using plus addressing on the recipient, to make your personal filters trivial. | 19:45 |
| nibalizer | the problem with that is not everything takes it | 19:45 |
| jeblair | fungi: that's how my account was set up before it was deleted. | 19:46 |
| fungi | okay, so that doesn't need someone at the foundation to fix for us then? just adding another alias would need assistance? | 19:46 |
| nibalizer | which can be super frustrating | 19:46 |
| jeblair | fungi: i'm not clear what's actually being proposed though | 19:46 |
| fungi | jeblair: however, i still very much like the idea of an account on a server which someone who isn't us is less likely to delete | 19:46 |
| jeblair | tell me what i'm missing from "forward all 1k messages/day to all of us" | 19:46 |
| clarkb | jeblair: filter out the stuff that isn't to infra-root | 19:46 |
| clarkb | aiui infra-root is just an alias for another thing that has been in use for forever? | 19:47 |
| fungi | assuming we're not already using infra-root@o.o for other stuff | 19:47 |
| jeblair | infra-root is the account; there are several aliases that point *to* it | 19:47 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ah ok | 19:47 |
| clarkb | is there not one alias that is significantly less noise than the others? | 19:47 |
| jeblair | we generally have not signed up with infra-root | 19:47 |
| jeblair | most of the mail goes to the other aliases | 19:47 |
| nibalizer | so create root-important@o.o and fwd it to infra-root@o.o and configure the infra-root account to spray things that came in to root-important out to each of us | 19:47 |
| jeblair | like 'gerrit@' and 'jenkins@' and 'openstackinfrastructurebot@' or whatever | 19:47 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya | 19:48 |
| fungi | though that mail service does have some manipulation rules which could possibly be used to forward based on recipient address | 19:48 |
| clarkb | so as long as we have one that isn't the spam addr, it should mostly work? | 19:48 |
| fungi | i haven't looked closely at that feature | 19:48 |
| mordred | honestly, I think even if the mail service does not have selective forwarding | 19:48 |
| mordred | it' snot a problem | 19:48 |
| mordred | we all have the ability to filter email locally | 19:48 |
| jeblair | (the reason we have multiple aliases pointing to the account is that the foundation pays per-account, but not per-address, and they wanted to keep costs down, so we collapsed them that way) | 19:48 |
| mordred | and most of us pretty trivially | 19:48 |
| nibalizer | yah | 19:48 |
| fungi | that's still a lot of messages for all of us to bitbucket continually | 19:48 |
| mordred | totally | 19:49 |
| clarkb | fungi: mordred if we did it server side int oa folder then imap only that it wouldn't be | 19:49 |
| mordred | just saying - if we can't forward per recip - we can filter locally | 19:49 |
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| clarkb | put all mail addressed to important user foo in folder important, then everyone imap that | 19:49 |
| clarkb | or forward just that folder, eithe rway we should be able to make something work | 19:49 |
| mordred | sure. it's email, one of the most robust systems on the planet. there are at least 1-billion ways to solve this. I support all of them | 19:49 |
| fungi | i'm open to adding another imap box in my mutt config as long as someone is volunteering to fiddle with the filtering mechanism there | 19:50 |
| jeblair | i can do so, but not this week | 19:50 |
| fungi | ("there" meaning in the rackspace mail app stuff) | 19:50 |
| fungi | yeah, i don't think this is crazy-urgent, but it is something i need to make sure we don't forget we're not doing | 19:50 |
| jeblair | if you want to action me to investigate that, i can | 19:51 |
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| dougwig | if it's imap, then you should definitely plus address, as that lets you pick the subfolder on the host, and not use filters at all. | 19:51 |
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| jeblair | and since we're not meeting next week, that gives me some time :) | 19:51 |
| clarkb | dougwig: as nibalizer said yo ucannot rely on that | 19:51 |
| clarkb | dougwig: its great when it works, terrible when it doesn't | 19:51 |
| fungi | on a related note, we ought to get contact addresses for things like the providers' incident trackers coifigured to go into whatever solution we're coming up with | 19:51 |
| jeblair | we should not sign up for anything that does not accept a plus address :) | 19:51 |
| fungi | er, configured | 19:51 |
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| dougwig | eh, you control the destination MTA, so you absolutely can. | 19:51 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I suppose that is also a valid stance | 19:52 |
| clarkb | dougwig: its the side sending you email that often rejects valid email addresses | 19:52 |
| fungi | because right now i think one of them sends updates to monty, one sends them to someone in foundation executive management, et cetera. it's all over the place | 19:52 |
| anteaya | fungi: is this the last topic you wanted to get to today? | 19:52 |
| jeblair | where we went wrong was ever signing up something that *didn't* go to monty | 19:53 |
| dougwig | clarkb: *blinks* -- the sending mta has nothing to do with it; it's fully compliant. | 19:53 |
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| fungi | #action jeblair investigate mail filtering by recipient options for infra-root@o.o inbox | 19:53 |
| jeblair | mordred is an excellent email filter/responder thing | 19:53 |
| clarkb | dougwig: many services will reject email addresses with + in them | 19:53 |
| fungi | anteaya: had one more quick one | 19:53 |
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| anteaya | fungi: k | 19:53 |
| fungi | #topic Summit session planning | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit session planning (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:53 | |
| fungi | just some quick updates/links here for convenience | 19:53 |
| fungi | as teh summit draws ever closer | 19:53 |
| jeblair | dougwig: we also don't control the receiving mta if we continue to use the foundation's mta (but if we spin up a server, we will, and could use + addressing with any character) | 19:54 |
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| fungi | pleia2 has already started a list of "infra-relevant sessions not in our track" at the bottom of the planning etherpad, so that might be a good place for people to add others and try to coordinate and make sure we get good coverage when there are conflicts | 19:54 |
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| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-newton-summit-planning add infra-relevant sessions at the bottom for coordination purposes | 19:55 |
| fungi | in my e-mail announcement to the list with our finalized schedule, i also included a shorthand for some of the conflicts i spotted | 19:55 |
| mordred | thank you! | 19:55 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-April/004162.html finalized session schedule with conflicts noted | 19:56 |
| Zara | :) thank you | 19:56 |
| eil397 | thank you | 19:56 |
| fungi | #link also pleia2 started our etherpads for the various sessions and i've linked them from the usual wiki page | 19:56 |
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| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Newton/Etherpads#Infrastructure summit sessions wiki links | 19:56 |
| clarkb | they are also linked fro mthe session schedule | 19:56 |
| nibalizer | thanks pleia2 | 19:56 |
| anteaya | thank you pleia2 and fungi | 19:57 |
| SotK | thanks pleia2, fungi | 19:57 |
| pabelanger | looking forward to the collaboration | 19:57 |
| fungi | i included utc time translations there for the benefit of people trying to follow along remotely in etherpads during/after sessions (or who, like me, keep personal time in utc when travelling) | 19:57 |
| anteaya | thank you | 19:57 |
| eil397 | thanks pleia2 | 19:58 |
| fungi | clarkb: ahh, yep, i did also put the etherpads in the official schedule as you noted | 19:58 |
| * anteaya also uses utc time | 19:58 | |
| mordred | fungi: you should include a key that tells us what time drinking starts in UTC in the area | 19:58 |
| fungi | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Infrastructure%3A official summit schedule | 19:58 |
| jeblair | if/when we split the developer summit from the marketing summit, we should have the developer summit schedule be in utc | 19:58 |
| fungi | mordred: starts? | 19:58 |
| mordred | fungi: good point | 19:58 |
| anteaya | jeblair: agreed | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | ah, good idea re: utc | 19:58 |
| mordred | fungi: for this summit, maybe we should make it a goal to do one-drink-per-session | 19:58 |
| jeblair | as another shibboleth to let people know they're at the wrong event :) | 19:58 |
| fungi | i'll try to backlink other appropriate metadata in the etherpad headers before the end of the week too, in preparation | 19:58 |
| anteaya | jeblair: ha ha ha | 19:59 |
| fungi | any summit questions in these last few seconds? | 19:59 |
| fungi | we're at about 30 seconds remaining | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | 'hi, you showed up at 3am, you probably meant to attend this *other* event' | 19:59 |
| docaedo | can we postpone for a week or two you think? hold out for better weather? | 19:59 |
| fungi | better weather | 19:59 |
| fungi | yes, prepare for a lot of wet | 19:59 |
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| fungi | i'm told inner tubes are a good travel accessory | 20:00 |
| anteaya | woooo water | 20:00 |
| fungi | and we're at time. thanks all, hope to see lots of you in austin!!! | 20:00 |
| Zara | \o/ | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 19 20:00:26 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-19-19.02.html | 20:00 |
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| bkero | bye! | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-19-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-19-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 20:00 |
| fungi | take it away, ttx! | 20:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 20:00 |
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| mestery | o/ | 20:00 |
| docaedo | o/ | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
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| ttx | annegentle, dims, dhellmann, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, mtreinish, thingee, mordred, morgan, russellb: around ? | 20:01 |
| agentle | \o | 20:01 |
| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | ttx: I dunno | 20:01 |
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| * edleafe hides in the back | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 19 20:02:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | ttx: flaper87 asked me to say he might not make it today | 20:02 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| * morgan hides. | 20:02 | |
| * stevemar sneaks in and sits in the back | 20:02 | |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
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| * rocky_g snuffles and coughs quietly in in the back but away from edleafe or stevemar | 20:02 | |
| * edleafe can't see with stevemar sitting in front of him | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | #topic Retire release:has-stable-branches tag | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Retire release:has-stable-branches tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/305702 | 20:03 |
| ttx | This one completes the transition to stable:follows-policy by removing the old has-stable-branches tag | 20:03 |
| morgan | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | Now has enough votes to pass, will approve now unless there are questions | 20:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | no questions from me | 20:03 |
| ttx | #action ttx to follow up to project navigator folks so that they use the new tag | 20:04 |
| ttx | #topic Add release:cycle-trailing tag | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add release:cycle-trailing tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/306037 | 20:04 |
| ttx | This one fills a gap we currently have: some projects are not formally part of "the OpenStack release" (since they release after the date) but still are pretty attached to the cycle | 20:04 |
| sdague | this seems pretty straight forward | 20:04 |
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| ttx | Currently we force those to be "independent", but that's not the right answer | 20:04 |
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| ttx | Hence the proposal for a specific model for things that are linked to the release cycle while not formally part of the release | 20:05 |
| sdague | basically for packaging / config management stuff to follow official release right? | 20:05 |
| ttx | Yeah... The only thing I'd like us to be careful with is our usage of the word "release" | 20:05 |
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| ttx | I still think "the Mitaka release" should be done and complete on release day, otherwise it doesn't mean anything | 20:05 |
| ttx | So cycle-trailing things are not part of "the release", they are published after the release | 20:05 |
| ttx | And we'll have to present things on releases.o.o in a way that makes that clear | 20:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: ah, good point, they depend on the the mitaka release | 20:05 |
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| ttx | Still a better place to be than to consider them cycle-independent | 20:06 |
| sdague | yeh, I guess, I doesn't seem to me to be that confusing if puppet for mitaka lands the week after the release :) | 20:06 |
| ttx | which was just wrong | 20:06 |
| sdague | but so be it | 20:06 |
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| morgan | sdague: i don't see it that way, but this is a nice clarification | 20:07 |
| morgan | sdague: erm.. i see it the same as you | 20:07 |
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| ttx | sdague: I don't want people to go to the release page on release day and then back the next week and discover additions... We need to consider it shipped at some point | 20:07 |
| morgan | sdague: better to be clear | 20:07 |
| mordred | thing is- I imagine that the puppet to deploy mitaka might continue to be updated as people learn things | 20:07 |
| morgan | "this is following a dev cycle" | 20:07 |
| ttx | but we need a place for things trailing the release | 20:07 |
| agentle | mordred: yeah same here... hm | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | mordred : so will mitaka, as stable updates are made | 20:07 |
| odyssey4me | dhellmann ++ | 20:08 |
| mordred | dhellmann: right - but those are not feature things | 20:08 |
| agentle | dhellmann: ok, so it is a "point in time" | 20:08 |
| sdague | mordred: possibly like we update stable/mitaka in projects as we learn things | 20:08 |
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| dims | a few folks from fuel, puppet have looked at it and were ok with it. so +1 from me. only question i had was around the 2 week time frame. but that seemed ok to them | 20:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | so sdague you make a good point they will probably call it those the "their" release mitaka as well, anyways | 20:08 |
| sdague | mordred: sometimes they are | 20:08 |
| morgan | it just clearly says "this isn't expected to release at the same day 'mitaka' is GA" | 20:08 |
| ttx | morgan: yes | 20:08 |
| mordred | for instance, mitaka added the ability late in the cycle to bootstrap keystone not using an admin token | 20:08 |
| mordred | one could imagine the puppet people adding support to the mitaka puppet 3 months later as a new 'feature' for managing mitaka | 20:09 |
| mtreinish1 | o/ | 20:09 |
| * mtreinish1 curses verizon | 20:09 | |
| mordred | I think trying to shoehorn things like puppet into the same box as things like nova is going to hurt | 20:09 |
| ttx | has enough votes to pass, so will approve now unless someone objects | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | mordred : are you anticipating some sort of issue with what has been said? | 20:09 |
| odyssey4me | mordred each project has the ability to use the semver minor version to indicate 'feature' changes if they so choose | 20:09 |
| sdague | mordred: we just backported mtu logic to liberty today, stuff happens | 20:09 |
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| mordred | dhellmann: nope. just being verbose | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | mordred : ok | 20:10 |
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| morgan | mordred: as an alternative, what would the option be, stay "independant" release? | 20:10 |
| ttx | ok, so we seem to violently agree, just making a few verbose points | 20:10 |
| sdague | I think there will be puppet for mitaka | 20:10 |
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| sdague | it will be confusing to people if we tell the puppet team they can't say that | 20:10 |
| morgan | not because i think it *needs* to be independant or cycle-trailing | 20:10 |
| morgan | just curious | 20:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague, I think you are right, else its just too confusing | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | sdague : we're not saying that. "puppet for mitaka" is ok. "puppet in mitaka" is less clear. | 20:10 |
| ttx | puppet for mitaka sounds good to me | 20:10 |
| morgan | i support a clear line "these things follow the cycle, but are part of the cycle" | 20:10 |
| mordred | morgan: ya. I do not htink it's important for the puppet modules to have a mitaka release of the modules. although I thin kthey can choose to do so if they'dlike | 20:10 |
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| morgan | regardless of how it's communicated | 20:11 |
| morgan | via a tag... via... and meail | 20:11 |
| mordred | morgan: ++ | 20:11 |
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| morgan | a comment.. a branch, etc | 20:11 |
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| ttx | mordred: we don't force them to follow cycle, they choose to :) | 20:11 |
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| dims | ttx : ++ | 20:11 |
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| morgan | lets try the tag. | 20:12 |
| ttx | I agree that it might make sense for them to be independent, but they want to follow the cycle and have a styable branch per release | 20:12 |
| sdague | anyway, this seems extra meta :) | 20:12 |
| morgan | if it doesn't work, we remove it | 20:12 |
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| morgan | we have that superpower | 20:12 |
| ttx | so we just give them a way to express that | 20:12 |
| sdague | yeh, it was an ask, I don't think it confuses things | 20:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, the tag still seems like a sound idea, to better express what they do | 20:12 |
| morgan | the puppet, kolla, etc things want it. | 20:12 |
| morgan | or seem to like it | 20:12 |
| ttx | because currently none of the models fit that case. Doesn't mean we force all deployment stuff to follow that model | 20:12 |
| morgan | lets see how it works. | 20:12 |
| ttx | ok, approving then | 20:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, seems worth trying | 20:13 |
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| ttx | alright done | 20:13 |
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| ttx | #topic Grant Cross-Project Spec Team Voting in Specs | 20:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grant Cross-Project Spec Team Voting in Specs (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:13 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/306244 | 20:13 |
| ttx | thingee: want to introduce ? | 20:13 |
| thingee | sure | 20:13 |
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| thingee | in a previous TC meeting I was bringing up the fact that I would like to abandon openstack-specs that inative once communicated with the owner. | 20:14 |
| thingee | this is no longer a problem anymore :) | 20:14 |
| thingee | but | 20:14 |
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| thingee | regardless I wanted to have the openstack cross-project team recognized to do voting on these specs | 20:15 |
| thingee | that involve the project team they represent. | 20:15 |
| thingee | jeblair requested a formal resolution to be written to capture this | 20:15 |
| sdague | is there a list of those folks besides in gerrit? Just for reference | 20:15 |
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| morgan | thingee: so kindof like the rollcall vote for the TC goverance repo but for the x-project team? | 20:15 |
| thingee | this is giving the ability to the cross-project team to say whether a spec is good or not for their team, instead of the TC looking over that consensus by those teams and finalizing it in their own vote. | 20:16 |
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| thingee | sdague: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons#Cross-Project_Spec_Liaisons | 20:16 |
| thingee | morgan: yes | 20:16 |
| mtreinish1 | thingee: these liasions are like the others where it's the ptl or a ptl chosen delegate? | 20:16 |
| thingee | mtreinish1: yes see our project team guide http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/cross-project.html#cross-project-specification-liaisons | 20:17 |
| agentle | mtreinish1: yes, although is that table pre-populated with PTLs to start thingee ? | 20:17 |
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| bswartz | I don't understand what the purpose of the voting would be -- just to register feedback? | 20:18 |
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| thingee | agentle: originally yes. This team was formed late last year, email communications were originally made on list and directly to ptls to either serve themselves or delegate. | 20:18 |
| dims | thingee is there a gerrit group populated from that wiki? | 20:18 |
| thingee | bswartz: so previous TC meetings, discussions were that the project team members themselves should know better if a spec would work for their project. If there is consensus in the community and these teams, why would the TC need to rubber stamp. | 20:19 |
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| thingee | dims: not yet | 20:19 |
| morgan | i'd like to see it become a formal managed via code review group rather than "populate from the wiki" | 20:19 |
| morgan | if that makes sense | 20:19 |
| thingee | morgan: sounds fine to me | 20:19 |
| ttx | what I like about this is that it removed the TC from the approval process -- doesn't prevent us from commenting, but we don't stand in the critical path | 20:19 |
| * morgan doesn't trust wiki to be authoritative | 20:19 | |
| bswartz | so if a majority of liasons vote yes for a CP spec, it gets merged? | 20:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: +1 | 20:20 |
| thingee | this also introduces a chair to the group. so I guess ideally that person would be able to update the gerrit group | 20:20 |
| dims | morgan : +1 | 20:20 |
| agentle | bswartz: yes, though there's discussion of instead a percentage rather than an integer | 20:20 |
| thingee | ttx: +1 | 20:20 |
| morgan | bswartz: i think the TC still can comment/weigh in (as we should) | 20:20 |
| edleafe | morgan: +1 | 20:20 |
| thingee | morgan: +1 | 20:20 |
| morgan | and should be able to vote (it is our job to do so and look at the benefit/health of the community/projects) | 20:20 |
| ttx | the TC can still comment and participate. We can also be appealed to | 20:20 |
| agentle | since not all cross-project specs affect all projects, could we envision a percent? | 20:20 |
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| ttx | in case people think the cross-project group is not operating correctly | 20:21 |
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| morgan | but i don't see an issue with the cross-project team having more ownership | 20:21 |
| thingee | agentle: it's only the involved projects. last paragraph should talk about that | 20:21 |
| ttx | ok, another violent agreement ? | 20:21 |
| morgan | in fact.. i like it. | 20:21 |
| morgan | more ownership | 20:21 |
| mestery | ttx: Violent agreement is the best kind of agreement :) | 20:21 |
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| morgan | mestery: ++ | 20:21 |
| thingee | one question though ttx, unanimous decision or majority? | 20:21 |
| thingee | that was a question some people had in the comments | 20:22 |
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| ttx | thingee: current style is to rubberstamp consensus, so the chair determines if consensus is reached | 20:22 |
| anteaya | unanimous could really hamstring you | 20:22 |
| agentle | thingee: ok | 20:22 |
| ttx | so current process is unanimous | 20:22 |
| dims | thingee : i see a few comments there... | 20:22 |
| ttx | doesn't mean we can't change it | 20:22 |
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| ttx | but | 20:22 |
| sdague | I think we should error on the side of asking for concensus | 20:23 |
| * morgan commented on the review. | 20:23 | |
| morgan | sdague: ++ | 20:23 |
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| sdague | and if we feel stuck, well the TC can always decide a thing | 20:23 |
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| ttx | two ways of solving that -- you want agreement on all affected projects. If a project doesn't want that change, you could try to find common ground and worst case scenario apply the change to every other project and require consensus there | 20:23 |
| gordc | do you need consensus/unanimous? if project 1,2,3 like an idea, and project 4,5,6,7 don't, do you want to/can you block all the projects that said 'yay'? | 20:24 |
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| sdague | or just have it come forward saying "the follow 2 projects object" but we think it's really important. And TC can say, yes, it's important we all do this thing. | 20:24 |
| morgan | sdague: ++ | 20:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | seems like the cross project team basically owns deciding the best way to build consensus, and the appeal to the TC if no one can decide seems like a good safety valve | 20:24 |
| dansmith | that should really be a very unlikely case though right? | 20:25 |
| thingee | sdague: seems like as ttx suggested the chair can determine that. | 20:25 |
| fungi | also is is a tacit approval/lazy consensus unanimity? | 20:25 |
| morgan | dansmith: i hope it's unlikely | 20:25 |
| ttx | gordc: so imagine a spec that affects ABCD. D disagrees. You should try to fix the disagreement. If that can't get done, you should limit the spec to ABC and require consensus there | 20:25 |
| sdague | gordc: I think the point is at the CPL level we're staying you all have the authority to come to concensus | 20:25 |
| sdague | and that's cool | 20:25 |
| thingee | if the chair is unsure, could ask the tc to weigh in | 20:25 |
| dansmith | what sort of situation would need decree from the TC realistically? | 20:25 |
| morgan | if it is happening a lot, we have a difunctional team | 20:25 |
| dansmith | ttx: +1 | 20:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | thingee: +1 | 20:25 |
| sdague | dansmith: right, I'm just trying to say we lazy evaluate the conflict case | 20:25 |
| mestery | ttx: +1 | 20:25 |
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| gordc | ttx: ack. makes sense. | 20:25 |
| mordred | dansmith: so far we have not forced the issue on any of the times when a project has unilaterally just not done something | 20:25 |
| sdague | knowing we have a backstop if we need one | 20:25 |
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| ttx | morgan: right, if a team refuses to play ball all the time it's grounds for removal, not to force them to merge that code | 20:26 |
| mordred | I think the only thing the TC has ever _forced_ over objections was the move to gerrit | 20:26 |
| morgan | ttx: exactly. | 20:26 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:26 |
| dansmith | yeah | 20:26 |
| mordred | (and that as the ppb, not the TC) | 20:26 |
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| bswartz | this sounds like we're back to CP PTL determines if specs merge or not and the voting is irreleveant (or merely a feedback mechanism) | 20:26 |
| ttx | we can't force a project to accept code it doesn't want. That would not work | 20:26 |
| agentle | mordred: ah, memories | 20:26 |
| morgan | bswartz: i expect it to work like the TC tbh. if it isn't and the CP PTL is running wild, the TC can also step in. | 20:27 |
| thingee | so I guess I'd like to amend to the spec, if there is disagreement, the chair could merge it if he/she feels there are majority agreeing to it. | 20:27 |
| dims | morgan : lol | 20:27 |
| * ttx has a big board with columns for each project team. Marks an X every time someone is being naughty and in the end if they get 10 crosses they don't get a present at Christmas | 20:27 | |
| thingee | but if the chair can't make decision, could ask the tc to weigh in | 20:27 |
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| morgan | dims: ;) | 20:27 |
| fungi | but also cp specs often don't apply to many (or even a majority) of projects, so asking for consensus across projects which don't have a stake in a particular spec could be problematic. but as long as discretion lies with the chair i suppose the definition of consensus can be considered flexible | 20:27 |
| anteaya | ttx: ha ha ha | 20:27 |
| * johnthetubaguy thinks ttx might not be kidding | 20:28 | |
| morgan | fungi: ++ | 20:28 |
| dansmith | thingee: I guess my point is.. do we really need to say that? | 20:28 |
| dims | johnthetubaguy : haha | 20:28 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: some projects failed to push their session descriptions in time. I added 2 crosses. | 20:28 |
| mestery | fungi: Right, I assume the definition of consensus is flexible | 20:28 |
| morgan | consensus is "affected projects" | 20:28 |
| thingee | dansmith: probably not | 20:28 |
| * johnthetubaguy nods at ttx | 20:28 | |
| morgan | in this context | 20:28 |
| thingee | dansmith: right not it says unanimous decision. | 20:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | "Assuming there is consensus with those that are involved" seems good enough | 20:29 |
| dansmith | johnthetubaguy: ++ | 20:29 |
| ttx | We have majority votes on the proposal. Any opposition ? | 20:29 |
| morgan | johnthetubaguy: ++ | 20:29 |
| ttx | yep agree it's enough | 20:29 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: agreed | 20:29 |
| anteaya | I'd substitute unanimous with consensus, personally | 20:29 |
| morgan | anteaya: so you'd advocate for "unnanimous" vs "consensus" | 20:30 |
| thingee | ttx: alright so I'll follow another update with johnthetubaguy's suggestion | 20:30 |
| ttx | I think it captrues the intent | 20:30 |
| morgan | it says consensnus now. | 20:30 |
| ttx | thingee: that's the current wording no ? | 20:30 |
| * morgan types badly today | 20:30 | |
| dansmith | consensus is better, IMHO | 20:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I got the lines mixed up | 20:30 |
| morgan | dansmith: i agree | 20:30 |
| dansmith | unanimous sounds like a jury convicting someone | 20:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | line41 and 46 | 20:30 |
| morgan | dansmith: GUILTY! | 20:30 |
| anteaya | morgan: I advocate for consensous | 20:30 |
| morgan | dansmith: i mean... | 20:30 |
| ttx | current wording already says "Assuming there is consensus with those that are involved" | 20:30 |
| mtreinish1 | dansmith: only if there are 12 people | 20:30 |
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| morgan | anteaya: it already says consensus in one loine, but unanimous in another | 20:31 |
| thingee | ttx: "in the cases where unanimous decision cannot be ..." | 20:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I cut and paste that, I guess line 46 is the sticking point | 20:31 |
| morgan | so.. thingee please make the consensus/unanimous lines agree | 20:31 |
| anteaya | morgan: I'd remove unanimous | 20:31 |
| ttx | thingee yourcall, happy to pass it as is | 20:31 |
| ttx | thingee: if you cal edit that in-meeting, we can revote | 20:31 |
| * thingee clicks the edit button | 20:31 | |
| cdent | I think something we need to be conscious of is the power for some of the larger projects (cough cough nova) to wield an implicit veto in cross project changes. | 20:31 |
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| cdent | That's bad. | 20:32 |
| thingee | done | 20:32 |
| dansmith | no, because we'd just be not part of the concerned parties right? | 20:32 |
| ttx | dansmith: exactly | 20:32 |
| thingee | please vote again https://review.openstack.org/#/c/306244/ | 20:32 |
| mestery | Right, if nova opts out, they['re note part of the consensus | 20:32 |
| mestery | And ttx can mark them on his list | 20:32 |
| ttx | check | 20:32 |
| dansmith | yeah, let's not make this more combative :) | 20:32 |
| * cdent sighs | 20:32 | |
| cdent | We've already seen this happen. | 20:32 |
| * anteaya frames dansmith's comment | 20:33 | |
| dansmith | anteaya: that one is free | 20:33 |
| morgan | thingee: thanks for the fix. | 20:33 |
| ttx | one more | 20:33 |
| ttx | please reapply votes | 20:34 |
| sdague | ttx: should be good now | 20:34 |
| ttx | indeed | 20:34 |
| morgan | cdent: lets see if we have progressed and have less "veto" happening, if it starts being a problem, we should absolutely revisit | 20:34 |
| ttx | approved | 20:34 |
| anteaya | dansmith: thank you | 20:34 |
| morgan | cdent: i am well aware it has happened. | 20:34 |
| rocky_g | thanks, thingee | 20:34 |
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| cdent | Thanks morgan | 20:34 |
| ttx | #topic Joint BoD/TC meeting agenda | 20:35 |
| morgan | cdent: but i think what we have now is solid and the right starting place.- | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Joint BoD/TC meeting agenda (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:35 | |
| dims | morgan : cdent : agree | 20:35 |
| ttx | morgan: agree | 20:35 |
| ttx | I pushed our ideas to Alan and that resulted in the following agenda for our Sunday meeting: | 20:35 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/6PuSKyUOHk | 20:35 |
| ttx | There may still be time to sneak another topic if you feel something is urgently missing | 20:35 |
| ttx | Otherwise it's easy to add a subpoint to one of the catch-all topics like "Newton tension points" | 20:35 |
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| morgan | seems reasonable | 20:36 |
| ttx | the board members didn't exactly add much | 20:36 |
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| ttx | but then I can do with a simple agenda | 20:36 |
| morgan | hm.. | 20:36 |
| mestery | Plenty of sheds to paint in that agenda ttx :) | 20:36 |
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| ttx | mestery: good then | 20:36 |
| morgan | there was something i had someone ask me about... i don't remember what it was. | 20:36 |
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| mestery | ttx: exactly :) | 20:36 |
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| * morgan will try and remember and ping TTX | 20:37 | |
| anteaya | did I miss the discussion about why the product work group has 30 minutes in the board/tc slot? | 20:37 |
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| jroll | ttx: the container/vm thing, should bare metal be included in that? | 20:37 |
| rocky_g | anteaya, roadmap, etc | 20:37 |
| ttx | anteaya: that was an item added by Alan (the only one) | 20:37 |
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| anteaya | ttx: okay thank you | 20:38 |
| morgan | jroll: i think that was part of the original convo | 20:38 |
| ttx | jroll: the more the merrier | 20:38 |
| morgan | jroll: i'd like to see it there. | 20:38 |
| jroll | ttx: it's really "does the nova api fit for different types of compute resources", right? | 20:38 |
| jroll | heh | 20:38 |
| jroll | agree | 20:38 |
| dims | jroll : yep | 20:38 |
| ttx | jroll: added | 20:38 |
| jroll | thank you ttx | 20:38 |
| mordred | jroll: well, I think "does the nova api fit for different types of compute resources" is a possible outcome discussion for us | 20:39 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:39 | |
| rocky_g | anteaya, hmm. thanks for pointing out the prodwg thing. I would have missed it | 20:39 |
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| anteaya | ttx we often don't get fully through the whole board/tc agenda, can the product work group go last on this agenda? | 20:39 |
| jroll | mordred: fair enough | 20:39 |
| anteaya | rocky_g: sure | 20:39 |
| ttx | anteaya: I'll make that suggestion | 20:39 |
| anteaya | ttx: thank you | 20:39 |
| ttx | * Video with tips for design summit moderators | 20:39 |
| ttx | We shot & edited the video last week, then sent it to PTLs and session moderators | 20:40 |
| ttx | #link https://youtu.be/M4cDyM2s2bc | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | nice work! | 20:40 |
| ttx | yay 247 views we are YouTube stars | 20:40 |
| dims | LOL | 20:40 |
| * dhellmann goes to watch it again | 20:40 | |
| anteaya | ttx: them them about your painting, I thought it was a mythical beast | 20:40 |
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| ttx | half of those must be me and my sound checks | 20:40 |
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| ttx | * Update reference list for Neutron projects (https://review.openstack.org/303026) | 20:41 |
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| * docaedo loved that video - great work everyone involved :) | 20:41 | |
| ttx | I wanted to draw attention to this review, which will be approved soon under our lazy approval rule unless someone objects | 20:41 |
| ttx | looks like adding it to agenda gave it some attention | 20:41 |
| ttx | It's a significant policy chnage in Neutron, so making sure everyone is aware of it | 20:41 |
| ttx | yay merge conflict | 20:41 |
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| morgan | woot merge conflicts! | 20:42 |
| agentle | ttx: did he get an understanding of what it means for the release? (What does it mean?) | 20:42 |
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| dhellmann | mestery : is the intent for those teams to ask for official status on their own? | 20:42 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: they would likely not get it as non-testable using open source tools in ci | 20:42 |
| thingee | I've been moderating summit sessions wrong this whole time... | 20:43 |
| mestery | dhellmann: You'd have to ask armax, it's out of Neutron's hands once that merges | 20:43 |
| mtreinish1 | dhellmann: could they be, the list was all proprietary stuff | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | right, that's why I was asking | 20:43 |
| morgan | thingee: amazing! | 20:43 |
| mestery | But I imagine many of them may try (and likely fail) to apply | 20:43 |
| mtreinish1 | *for talking to proprietary stuff | 20:43 |
| ttx | agentle: what it means for the release ? | 20:43 |
| agentle | ttx: is this list for a particular release? | 20:43 |
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| ttx | agentle: they become unofficial, so they are not part of "the release" | 20:43 |
| agentle | ttx: were they part of mitaka? | 20:43 |
| mestery | Right, once that merges, they are not openstack projects | 20:43 |
| mestery | Just projects using the openstack infrastructure | 20:44 |
| ttx | agentle: they were | 20:44 |
| agentle | considered part of mitaka, ok | 20:44 |
| dims | which means release team is not on the hook to shepherd releases | 20:44 |
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| dhellmann | except the ones using release:independent | 20:44 |
| morgan | hmm. | 20:44 |
| ttx | (which was most of them) | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | (those weren't part of mitaka, even though they were official during the mitaka cycle) | 20:44 |
| ttx | agentle: most of them weren't in mitaka | 20:44 |
| ttx | most/all | 20:44 |
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| morgan | i think this is just reflecting the reality | 20:45 |
| mestery | I'd say all | 20:45 |
| ttx | so it actually won't change much | 20:45 |
| morgan | based upon what ttx and mestery just said | 20:45 |
| mestery | None of them had a mitaka release | 20:45 |
| morgan | so.. procedural mostly | 20:45 |
| mestery | They were all release:independent | 20:45 |
| ttx | well, welcome clarification | 20:45 |
| ttx | neutron core team couldn't vouch for them | 20:45 |
| agentle | ok yeah | 20:45 |
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| agentle | we can put info in a blog post | 20:45 |
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| ttx | I agree that if they were in mitaka the move would be more... significant | 20:46 |
| ttx | But we need to get ready for that | 20:46 |
| ttx | (cleanups of the tent) | 20:46 |
| mestery | Consider this a litmus test of sorts | 20:46 |
| morgan | if they had been in mitaka, i would have pushed this convo to the tent cleanup | 20:46 |
| mestery | Although much of the fury over this change has already happened | 20:46 |
| ttx | there will be things that were released in mitaka and will get thrown out in newton | 20:46 |
| morgan | but since they weren't i am not as concerned. | 20:46 |
| mestery | morgan: They were not released in mitaka, but their contributors got ATC, so halfway in mitaka? | 20:46 |
| mestery | ttx: ++ | 20:47 |
| morgan | mestery: leaving the ATC bit off the table. | 20:47 |
| mestery | yeah | 20:47 |
| ttx | morgan: thanks :) | 20:47 |
| amrith | ttx, is the BOD/TC meeting open to other attendees? I'd like to attend, especially the last line item on the agenda. | 20:47 |
| ttx | amrith: yes | 20:47 |
| amrith | thx ttx | 20:47 |
| ttx | amrith: got the location/date ? | 20:47 |
| amrith | no, am looking for it | 20:48 |
| amrith | it is sundday | 20:48 |
| amrith | i'll be there | 20:48 |
| rocky_g | amrith, the whole BOD meeting, not just the joint one with TC | 20:48 |
| ttx | except the private session | 20:48 |
| amrith | ttx, I don't have location/time | 20:48 |
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| rocky_g | ttx, oops. Yeah. Thanks. Lunch. | 20:48 |
| * armax scrolls back | 20:48 | |
| ttx | amrith: JW Marriott, Level 3, Salons G/H | 20:48 |
| anteaya | amrith: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/24Apr2016BoardMeeting#Joint_Board.2FTC.2FUser_Committee_Meeting | 20:48 |
| ttx | 2:30pm Joint TC / UC Meeting | 20:48 |
| ttx | on Sunday | 20:49 |
| amrith | thanks ttx, will be there. | 20:49 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:49 |
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| dims | there's remote access too - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/foundation/2016-April/002325.html | 20:49 |
| ttx | Happy to see you all next week | 20:50 |
| morgan | yay summit! | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | ++ we should get together more often than every 6 months | 20:51 |
| sdague | is there going to be a TC gathering? | 20:51 |
| amrith | safe travels everyone | 20:51 |
| morgan | dhellmann: of course! | 20:51 |
| sdague | even like the informalish bar thing last time, it was nice to happen | 20:51 |
| agentle | is there a second TC-only dinner this time 'round? | 20:51 |
| ttx | I'll be at the WOO event we can do something from there | 20:51 |
| ttx | agentle: no TC-dinner | 20:51 |
| agentle | ttx: that works | 20:51 |
| agentle | ttx: informal is good | 20:51 |
| agentle | we can all get the meat sweats together | 20:52 |
| dims | sdague : ++ that would be good | 20:52 |
| ttx | I'll be at the Saturday Board/staff/TC dinner too, but I think a few members will miss that | 20:52 |
| mtreinish1 | agentle: ++ | 20:52 |
| sdague | yeh, I won't be there | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm not coming in until sunday morning | 20:52 |
| * morgan will be around for Sat. | 20:52 | |
| mtreinish1 | ttx: yeah, I'll be on a plane when that's scheduled | 20:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I fly in late ish saturday sadly | 20:52 |
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| mestery | Sunday morning for me too | 20:53 |
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| ttx | I'll see some of you Saturday evening then, and the others at the Board/TC meeting and at the WOO event and whatever comes next | 20:53 |
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| dims | safe travels everyone | 20:54 |
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| ttx | alright, time to close this I guess | 20:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, +1 to that, safe travels everyone | 20:55 |
| ttx | see you in a few days | 20:55 |
| * edleafe is driving up Sat afternoon | 20:55 | |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 19 20:55:16 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-04-19-20.02.html | 20:55 |
| mestery | See you all next week and safe travels! | 20:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-04-19-20.02.txt | 20:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-04-19-20.02.log.html | 20:55 |
| * morgan finishes tuesday meetings. | 20:55 | |
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| agentle | morgan: lucky | 20:55 |
| morgan | agentle: hey, i'm unemployed atm :) | 20:56 |
| morgan | agentle: i have a lot less to do than those of you who are gainfully employed ^_^. very relaxing | 20:56 |
| agentle | morgan: oh yeah -- then finish with style! | 20:56 |
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