Wednesday, 2015-11-11

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loquacities	anyone here for the APAC docs meeting?	00:31
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katomo	o/	00:31
loquacities	hi katomo :)	00:31
suyog	hi, loquacities	00:31
* bmoss is present		00:31
loquacities	hi suyog	00:31
loquacities	ok, let's kick off then	00:32
loquacities	#startmeeting docteam	00:32
openstack	Meeting started Wed Nov 11 00:32:07 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	00:32
* Sam-I-Am somewhat here		00:32
openstack	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.	00:32
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)"		00:32
openstack	The meeting name has been set to 'docteam'	00:32
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loquacities	hi everyone :)	00:32
loquacities	welcome back from summit :)	00:32
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loquacities	obviously we have no action items from the last meeting, so we'll move straight to the next topic ...	00:33
katomo	:)	00:33
loquacities	#topic Specs in review	00:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs in review (Meeting topic: docteam)"		00:33
loquacities	#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/docs-specs,n,z	00:33
loquacities	https://review.openstack.org/#/c/240879/ (Upgrades)	00:33
loquacities	https://review.openstack.org/#/c/238770/ (User Guide reorg)	00:33
loquacities	https://review.openstack.org/#/c/227660/ (Ops Guide reorg)	00:33
loquacities	https://review.openstack.org/#/c/224420/ (DocImpact)	00:33
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loquacities	re the docimpact one, i'll be working on that today	00:33
loquacities	any questions or comments on specs?	00:34
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Sam-I-Am	looking for comments/takers on upgrades	00:34
bmoss	actually, I have a question re: blueprints	00:34
bmoss	can we drop blueprints and just do specs?	00:35
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Sam-I-Am	blueprints contain the tracking mechanism	00:35
loquacities	bmoss: i like having blueprints too, because it's easier to manage in liberty	00:35
loquacities	it also allows us to pin patches to them	00:35
Sam-I-Am	specs are all the content that blueprints make difficult	00:35
bmoss	sigh. ok.	00:35
loquacities	sorry	00:35
Sam-I-Am	like... tracking modifications to the content and approving them	00:36
loquacities	i hate launchpad too, if it makes you feel better :P	00:36
bmoss	I just don't like using two tools for one job	00:36
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loquacities	i agree	00:36
katomo	agree :)	00:36
bmoss	oh well. I'll find some way to move on.	00:37
suyog	:)	00:37
loquacities	heh, sorry	00:37
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loquacities	Sam-I-Am: re upgrades, have you spoken to the ops guide speciality team?	00:37
darrenc	I've mentioned the spec in the ops guide meeting	00:37
Sam-I-Am	not yet, although some of them are here	00:37
Sam-I-Am	not exactly sure where upgrade content should go, hence why its sort of by itself	00:38
Sam-I-Am	thats part of the discussion	00:38
loquacities	ok, i'll add that to my list to look at today, then	00:38
darrenc	there's a few ops ppl who are willing to help out	00:38
loquacities	ops seems sane to me, though, ftr	00:38
Sam-I-Am	it does	00:39
loquacities	ok, shall we move on?	00:39
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Sam-I-Am	da	00:39
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loquacities	i'm conscious of the fact that there's an install guide meeting in 20 minutes	00:39
loquacities	#topic Speciality teams	00:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Speciality teams (Meeting topic: docteam)"		00:39
loquacities	#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/SpecialityTeams	00:39
loquacities	#info HA Guide - New speciality team formed under Bogdan Dobrelya.	00:39
loquacities	#info Install Guides - RDO published. Debian still on hold. New speciality team formed under Christian Berendt.	00:40
Sam-I-Am	networking guide - crickets	00:40
loquacities	#info Networking Guide - New speciality team formed under Edgar Magana for Mitaka.	00:40
loquacities	#info Security Guide - no update.	00:40
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loquacities	#info User Guides - Please review spec	00:40
loquacities	#info Ops/Arch Guides - Please review specs.	00:40
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loquacities	#info API docs - Fairy Slipper conversion underway: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/docs-specs/specs/liberty/api-site.html	00:41
loquacities	#info Config Ref - Waiting on RST conversion spec.	00:41
loquacities	#info OpenStack Training Labs - Contact Pranav Salunke #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/openstack-labs	00:41
loquacities	#info OpenStack Training Guides - Contact Matjaz Pancur #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Training-guides	00:41
loquacities	#info Hyperviser Tuning Guide - Contact Joe Topjian	00:41
loquacities	not a lot of updates there at this point	00:42
Sam-I-Am	moar guides?	00:42
Sam-I-Am	wouldnt hypervisor bits go into an ops guide?	00:42
loquacities	things will pick up over the next week or so, i guess	00:42
loquacities	sigh, yes, we thought of that	00:42
loquacities	it took about half an hour, but in the end they convinced me to take on a new book	00:42
loquacities	i may be insane, i'm ok with that	00:42
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Sam-I-Am	you are insane	00:43
loquacities	thank you	00:43
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loquacities	any other questions or comments on speciality teams?	00:43
Sam-I-Am	i thought we were trying to consolidate books to make content easier to find... with fewer barriers based on user type	00:43
loquacities	yeah, i know	00:43
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bmoss	I think it is worth giving the Tuning Guide a cycle to see how it pans out.	00:44
loquacities	i agree	00:44
bmoss	The content can be merged with another guide later if that makes sense.	00:44
loquacities	once we have some content, we can think about if there's a better place for it	00:44
loquacities	they have a lot of stuff they want to write, though, and no one wanted a giant hyperviser section in their book	00:44
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Sam-I-Am	we shall see	00:45
bmoss	and they have a team that want to do the work, so that's good.	00:45
loquacities	i think we have to, in this case	00:45
loquacities	yes, they're also not asking for docs resources at this point	00:45
loquacities	just a place to publish	00:45
loquacities	ok, if there's no other comments on speciality teams, let's push ahead ...	00:46
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loquacities	#topic Countdown to Mitaka	00:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Countdown to Mitaka (Meeting topic: docteam)"		00:46
Sam-I-Am	already?	00:46
loquacities	147 days http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20160407T00&p0=1440&msg=OpenStack+Mitaka+Launch+Date&font=cursive	00:46
loquacities	#info Need volunteers to help document the openstack-doc-tools	00:46
loquacities	#info Need volunteers to help reorganise the index page and write one-sentence summaries. The API docs have already been moved off.	00:46
loquacities	couple of relatively small jobs that need a volunteer or two	00:47
darrenc	Christian! :)	00:47
bmoss	LOL	00:47
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loquacities	i'd like to get these done while we still have energy from summit :)	00:47
loquacities	haha!	00:47
bmoss	I'm happy to look into those items	00:47
Sam-I-Am	u funny	00:47
loquacities	we could just assign christian in his absence? ;)	00:47
loquacities	thanks bmoss	00:47
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bmoss	we need a bot that just assigns all action items to Christian	00:48
loquacities	#action bmoss to look into documenting openstack-doc-tools and the index page reorg	00:48
loquacities	we should get christian to write us a bot ...	00:48
suyog	Happy to look into index page one-sentence summaries.	00:48
loquacities	#action suyog to look into the index page summaries	00:49
loquacities	thanks suyog :)	00:49
suyog	no problem	00:49
loquacities	ok, moving on	00:49
loquacities	#topic Spotlight bugs	00:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Spotlight bugs (Meeting topic: docteam)"		00:49
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loquacities	#info Our new rewards scheme for killing old bugs will be announced shortly.	00:49
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loquacities	sorry that's taking me a little while to get to	00:49
loquacities	we're trying to sort through shipping issues	00:49
Sam-I-Am	ha	00:50
fifieldt	yeah, sorry about that	00:50
loquacities	in simple terms, though, close more than 5 bugs that are older than a year and we'll send you swag	00:50
loquacities	oh hi fifieldt	00:50
fifieldt	hi :)	00:50
loquacities	been meaning to drop you an email about that ;)	00:50
fifieldt	basically we have a swag store, but shipping anywhere other than the US costs billions of dollars	00:50
* Sam-I-Am does a search, closes 6 bugs that are older than a year		00:50
Sam-I-Am	ok, done.	00:50
fifieldt	so I am thinking about making some swag and taking on the shipping task myself to work around this	00:51
fifieldt	but ideas on what swag is good are needed :)	00:51
loquacities	what swag do people want?	00:51
fifieldt	tshirts, stickers, pens, coasters, onesies for babies	00:51
fifieldt	?	00:51
fifieldt	examples on store.openstack.org for inspiration	00:52
Sam-I-Am	wait, nerds have babies?	00:52
loquacities	seems surprisingly common	00:52
fifieldt	http://store.openstack.org/promotional-items/onesie-light-blue-2013-designer-t-shirt.html	00:52
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* Sam-I-Am needs a swag collection		00:52
loquacities	anyway, feel free to let us know what you want on email	00:53
loquacities	any other burning topics?	00:53
loquacities	#topic Open discussion	00:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)"		00:54
bmoss	I'm good. There seems to be plenty to do already this cycle. :)	00:54
Sam-I-Am	i have a fever. i think that counts as a burning topic. :)	00:54
loquacities	yeah, tell me about it!	00:54
loquacities	Sam-I-Am: ooh ouch :(	00:54
loquacities	go to bed!	00:54
Sam-I-Am	one more meeting!	00:54
Sam-I-Am	then its tabasco and whiskey	00:54
fifieldt	firstapp update - found someone (Martin Paulo) here who has some nice heat templates that are actually using faafo, so that patch(es) will go in soon	00:54
loquacities	oh yeah, install guide meeting in 6 mins ...	00:54
loquacities	oh cool!	00:54
loquacities	i should add first app as a speciality team, shouldn't i?	00:55
Sam-I-Am	any word on when we're branching?	00:55
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Sam-I-Am	the install guide bug report list was quiet for a couple of weeks, now things are popping up	00:55
loquacities	Sam-I-Am: any day now	00:55
Sam-I-Am	nothing super critical though	00:55
fifieldt	loquacities, the firstapp discussion tends to happen in the application ecoysostem WG, so the formal home for meetings etc is thereish at the moment	00:55
loquacities	i merged the patch that andreas was waiting on earlier today	00:55
loquacities	fifieldt: ok, up to you :)	00:55
fifieldt	let's keep an eye on it	00:56
loquacities	ok, cool	00:56
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fifieldt	also - is there communications happening between fairy slipper and the nova swagger stuff?	00:56
fifieldt	saw that on the ML but wasn't sure	00:56
loquacities	fifieldt: i believe so	00:56
loquacities	anne is driving that	00:56
fifieldt	great, thanks :)	00:56
loquacities	ok, i'm calling it!	00:57
loquacities	#endmeeting	00:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings \|\| https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"		00:57
openstack	Meeting ended Wed Nov 11 00:57:31 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)	00:57
openstack	Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-11-11-00.32.html	00:57
openstack	Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-11-11-00.32.txt	00:57
openstack	Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-11-11-00.32.log.html	00:57
loquacities	thanks everyone :)	00:57
Sam-I-Am	seeya	00:57
katomo	thanks, all	00:57
bmoss	cheers	00:57
suyog	thanks loquacities	00:57
darrenc	thanks	00:57
fifieldt	謝謝	00:58
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Sam-I-Am	off to the next meeting	00:58
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katomo	Chinese!	00:58
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ricolin	:)	00:58
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skraynev__	#startmeeting heat	07:00
openstack	Meeting started Wed Nov 11 07:00:32 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is skraynev__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	07:00
openstack	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.	07:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"		07:00
openstack	The meeting name has been set to 'heat'	07:00
skraynev__	#topic rollcall	07:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"		07:00
pshchelo	O/	07:00
elynn_	o/	07:00
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ramishra	hi	07:01
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shprotby	hi	07:01
skraynev__	I am from phone, so may print very slow :)	07:01
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stevebaker	\o	07:01
skraynev__	#chair pshchelo	07:01
openstack	Current chairs: pshchelo skraynev__	07:02
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skraynev__	#topic Adding items to agenda	07:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"		07:02
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skraynev__	#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda	07:03
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skraynev__	We have not any specific items for todays meeting	07:03
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pas-ha	o/ - now from Keyboard	07:04
pshchelo	#chair pas-ha	07:04
openstack	Current chairs: pas-ha pshchelo skraynev__	07:04
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shardy	o/	07:04
pas-ha	#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282015-11-11_0700_UTC.29	07:05
stevebaker	heat kilo gate is broken, but I haven't had a chance to investigate yet	07:05
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stevebaker	something to do with aodh http://logs.openstack.org/06/242906/2/check/gate-heat-dsvm-functional-orig-mysql/968bd6d/logs/devstack-early.txt.gz#_2015-11-10_03_50_27_695	07:06
skraynev__	stevebaker: me too, I still try to read all mails after vacation :)	07:06
pas-ha	ceilo again..	07:06
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pas-ha	any other matters tput them in to discuss?	07:07
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skraynev__	stevebaker: is it traceback for kilo? I thought, that aodh was added recently	07:07
elynn_	http://logs.openstack.org/06/242906/2/check/gate-heat-dsvm-functional-orig-mysql/968bd6d/logs/devstack-early.txt.gz#_2015-11-10_03_50_27_694 Is that the reason?	07:07
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elynn_	'oslo.service' is not in global-requirements.txt	07:08
stevebaker	skraynev__: I know, I didn't even realise aodh was a thing in kilo. That is probably the problem	07:08
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stevebaker	shardy: Is it worth discussing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/238194/ here, or do you think you have a way forward?	07:09
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shardy	stevebaker: I think I have a way forward after discussion with zaneb, I've just had too many interruptions the last couple of days	07:10
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stevebaker	ok, cool	07:10
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shardy	stevebaker: the plan is not to create subclasses via generate_class for user-provided TemplateResources	07:10
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shardy	only for those via the global registry which need to be visible via resource-type-show	07:11
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asalkeld	o/	07:11
shardy	then the comparison becomes easier	07:11
tiantian	o/	07:11
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pas-ha	#topic priority reviews https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-reviews	07:12
*** openstack changes topic to "priority reviews https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-reviews (Meeting topic: heat)"		07:12
stevebaker	shardy: ah, because user-provided template resources will literally be a TemplateResource type?	07:12
pas-ha	not much there right now, feel free to put yours, but sparingly ;)	07:12
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shardy	stevebaker: yeah, if we do that, most of the problems go away I think	07:12
stevebaker	ok, sounds good.	07:13
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stevebaker	I've add a Priority Bug review	07:14
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pas-ha	just saw that	07:14
shardy	stevebaker: Thanks, I should have another revision today	07:14
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pas-ha	while people started putting priority reviews, I think we can move to..	07:16
pas-ha	#topic Open discussion	07:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"		07:16
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pas-ha	is there something to discuss?	07:17
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asalkeld	not from me	07:18
pas-ha	finishing early?	07:18
skraynev__	pas-ha: Nothing from me	07:18
stevebaker	That is always an option :)	07:18
asalkeld	sure short meeting :-)	07:18
pas-ha	short meetings are also good :)	07:18
pas-ha	ok, moving back to heat channel	07:18
pas-ha	#endmeeting	07:18
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings \|\| https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"		07:18
openstack	Meeting ended Wed Nov 11 07:18:58 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)	07:19
openstack	Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-11-11-07.00.html	07:19
openstack	Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-11-11-07.00.txt	07:19
openstack	Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-11-11-07.00.log.html	07:19
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skraynev__	pas-ha: thx :)	07:19
pas-ha	skraynev__, np :)	07:19
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BobBall	#startmeeting XenAPI	09:31
openstack	Meeting started Wed Nov 11 09:31:55 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is BobBall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	09:31
openstack	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.	09:31
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"		09:31
openstack	The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'	09:31
BobBall	johnthetubaguy: pingity ping :)	09:32
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huanxie	hello	09:32
BobBall	morning huanxie	09:32
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BobBall	Anyone else around?	09:32
jianghuawang	hello, everyone.	09:32
* johnthetubaguy waves		09:32
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BobBall	Howdy	09:33
BobBall	Also huazhihao I hope!	09:33
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huazhihao	Hi Bob	09:34
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huazhihao	Hi all	09:34
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BobBall	#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/XenAPI is the agenda	09:34
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BobBall	#topic blueprints	09:34
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BobBall	So - I think we have one blueprint to focus on	09:35
BobBall	jianghuawang - what's the status of the VGPU blueprint?	09:35
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jianghuawang	yes, i'm reworking vgpu spec basing on the review comment.	09:35
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BobBall	OK - as we've discussed, johnthetubaguy has recently highlighted the dates for spec freeze	09:36
BobBall	we really want VGPU in Mitaka so we can start making progress again :)	09:37
jianghuawang	two changes by comparing to the last review version: add enable flag in flavor and image; specify vgpu model in the image metadata.	09:37
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johnthetubaguy	not sure what you would not just do both in the flavor, but I guess I should read the spec	09:37
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jianghuawang	another change is to consider the resource object model which will be done in Mitaka.	09:38
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johnthetubaguy	usually flavor says what you are allowed, image specifies what it needs, after that its a bit sketchy	09:38
BobBall	johnthetubaguy: danp wanted the split so an operator didn't have to duplicate all flavors to add vGPU	09:38
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johnthetubaguy	right, but some admins will need to do that	09:38
BobBall	johnthetubaguy: that was a comment on the spec at the moment	09:38
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johnthetubaguy	yeah, we don't really agree on that stuff right now, its very very messy	09:39
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johnthetubaguy	key thing is to try not get distracted by everything thats moving around in that area right now	09:39
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johnthetubaguy	currently trying to re-define the concept of flavor and image properties (in a backwards compatible way)	09:39
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BobBall	OK - so what do we do for thsi spec	09:40
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BobBall	do we stick with the "old" way?	09:40
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johnthetubaguy	BobBall: we should have raised this at the summit, in the unconference style stuff, to argue it out I guess	09:41
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BobBall	in which case we'd need your comments on the spec saying we should stick to the old way	09:41
johnthetubaguy	unsure, I have to go read the spec	09:41
johnthetubaguy	currently working my way through the older ones	09:41
BobBall	Hindsight is an exact science :)	09:41
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BobBall	OK - is the VGPU spec on your todo list? And do you know when you might get to it? Just concerned about meeting the timescales	09:41
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johnthetubaguy	every spec is on my todo list, effectively	09:42
jianghuawang	the link is: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229351/2/specs/mitaka/approved/xenapi-add-support-for-vgpu.rst	09:42
jianghuawang	john, thanks.	09:42
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BobBall	Any idea how long it might take to get to this spec? Is it something you're ploughing through this week, or expecting to take a couple of weeks to get through?	09:43
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johnthetubaguy	BobBall: for next time, I recommend any spec with an unresolved -1 to try and raise the issue at the summit, its good for clearing the air	09:43
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BobBall	I didn't think it was an unresolved -1 at the time of the summit, but maybe I'm mis-remembering the timescales	09:43
johnthetubaguy	BobBall: we have 110 specs, ish, takes me 30 mins per spec, on average	09:43
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johnthetubaguy	I have chosen not to work that out, because its depressing	09:44
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BobBall	OK; but clearly if it takes 2 weeks to review the spec there is a very high risk that it's going to miss the deadline you published	09:44
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johnthetubaguy	yes, thinkings not merged by the summit are at risk, roughly	09:45
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johnthetubaguy	anyways, lets go through this spec in real time	09:45
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johnthetubaguy	I think we should cover why vGPU and GPU passthrough are different	09:45
BobBall	OK, that'd be fantastic, thanks	09:45
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BobBall	There is no support for GPU passthrough; just generic passthrough	09:45
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BobBall	which happens to work for GPU	09:45
johnthetubaguy	correct, and thats a difference	09:46
BobBall	We can add a comment at the top explaining that there are no PCI devices for VGPU	09:46
johnthetubaguy	yeah	09:46
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johnthetubaguy	in the problem description	09:46
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johnthetubaguy	Nova supports passthrough of GPU PCI devices, but vGPU is different because...	09:46
johnthetubaguy	etc	09:46
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jianghuawang	that's in the spec already: there are no PCI devices for VGPU	09:46
BobBall	nod jianghuawang - taking notes, yes? :)	09:47
johnthetubaguy	oh yeah, I missed that bit	09:47
johnthetubaguy	oops, sorry	09:47
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johnthetubaguy	that project priority section can be removed	09:47
BobBall	perhaps we could make it more obvious	09:47
johnthetubaguy	its been dropped from the template	09:47
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BobBall	Yup - that's a comment in the spec already	09:47
johnthetubaguy	BobBall: I would probably put that first in the problem spec, yeah	09:48
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johnthetubaguy	do vGPUs have a size?	09:48
jianghuawang	Ok. I will make it to be more obvious.	09:48
johnthetubaguy	or is it more like vCPUs?	09:48
BobBall	They have a 'model' which sort of defines the size	09:49
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BobBall	the model could include definitions of the size (e.g. the K160Q model has a defined size)	09:49
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johnthetubaguy	do most cards offer a single model?	09:49
BobBall	so it's more like vCPUs	09:49
BobBall	no; K1+K2 offer a range	09:49
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BobBall	#link http://support.citrix.com/servlet/KbServlet/download/38329-102-714577/XenServer-6.5.0-graphics.pdf	09:50
johnthetubaguy	right, we should capture those details in the use case section, here is a typical setup and what it might offer	09:50
johnthetubaguy	PS, its super useful for destop as a service, etc	09:50
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BobBall	OK - so we can add an overview of how a "model" works	09:51
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BobBall	and an example of the DaaS use case	09:51
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johnthetubaguy	well just an exmaple setup, and the available resources would do the trick I think	09:51
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BobBall	GRID K180Q	09:52
BobBall	Designer/Power User	09:52
BobBall	2560x1600	09:52
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BobBall	That's one of the "models" (but I thought it would paste on one line)	09:52
johnthetubaguy	so when you use a larger size, I guess it reduces the other models too?	09:52
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BobBall	no; you define the models in advance	09:52
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BobBall	So that's why its much more like vCPUs than memory	09:53
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johnthetubaguy	oh... you define the split you want on setup	09:53
BobBall	yes	09:53
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BobBall	But it's ok - even if we change that in XAPI, the approach that we're proposing will capture the latest number of 'free' vGPUs of each type	09:54
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BobBall	We have 5 minutes left in this meeting in theory	09:54
johnthetubaguy	oh, thats a XAPI modeling thing	09:54
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johnthetubaguy	so I can't see why people would configure two models, FWIW, its just too complicated, but we should cover that case	09:55
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BobBall	Agreed; the OpenStack code will be completely independent of the number of models and we can make that clear in the spec.	09:55
johnthetubaguy	so I guess pick a card, and describe two example setups in that use cases section	09:55
BobBall	OK	09:55
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johnthetubaguy	the bit I was curious about what do you report 2xsmall 1xlarge and you use the large and the 2xsmall go away	09:55
johnthetubaguy	bit seems like you have avoided that case with the current system	09:56
johnthetubaguy	s/bit/but/	09:56
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BobBall	It would just work	09:56
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BobBall	because the proposal is for the resources to be updated by the resource checker	09:56
BobBall	so the 2xsmall would disappear when the 1xlarge was used	09:57
johnthetubaguy	so, do you plan to create a versioned object to describe the vGPU capabilities	09:57
BobBall	but currently I don't think we can configure that	09:57
johnthetubaguy	BobBall: that still horrible breaks the scheduler	09:57
BobBall	No - we were suggesting adding it to capabilities	09:57
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BobBall	It shouldn't as the scheduler always checks the latest resources	09:57
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johnthetubaguy	says add new field into the table right?	09:58
BobBall	yes	09:58
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johnthetubaguy	BobBall: its races, you send 2xsmall and 1xlarge to the same box, and they race each other to claim the resources	09:58
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johnthetubaguy	so the new field should be modeled by a new object right?	09:58
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BobBall	Fair enough; well that's a future question since XAPI only uses a single model	09:59
BobBall	I think the suggestion is it's a json string? is that right jianghuawang?	09:59
BobBall	If we need a new object, then we can add that to the spec	09:59
jianghuawang	yes.	09:59
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BobBall	but if we have a new object I think it'd mean a new custom filter	10:00
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BobBall	rather than re-using the existing capabilities / instance filter ?	10:00
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johnthetubaguy	BobBall: not sure if thats true, it could serialize into a string for the capabilities	10:00
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BobBall	hmmmz - are there any examples of that currently?	10:01
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BobBall	I know of the numa example for the full-object new-filter approach	10:01
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jianghuawang	sorry, I don't understand why new filter is needed at here.	10:03
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johnthetubaguy	jianghuawang: me too, seems like we can keep the same filter, but not 100% sure I get the conversation now	10:03
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BobBall	maybe I'm confused :)	10:03
johnthetubaguy	BobBall: unsure, its all heading that way though	10:03
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johnthetubaguy	objects I mean	10:03
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BobBall	I thought if we converted the string to an object that we couldn't use instancefilter - but if we can use it then even better	10:04
BobBall	OK - so you want the vGPU to be defined as a very light weight object	10:04
BobBall	or can it just be a dict?	10:04
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BobBall	basically it's a list of model -> free pairs	10:04
BobBall	but you want it as an object so it can be versioned?	10:05
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johnthetubaguy	BobBall: I was thinking a o.vo object that defines the fields, so its clear what should be in it	10:05
johnthetubaguy	the reason we do it, is to make maintaining upgrade easier	10:05
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BobBall	OK	10:05
jianghuawang	John, are u mean the resource-object model which will be implemented in Mitaka?	10:05
johnthetubaguy	its clear when the format changes and how to convert	10:05
jianghuawang	https://review.openstack.org/#/c/239772/1/specs/mitaka/approved/resource-objects.rst	10:05
BobBall	ok	10:06
jianghuawang	which will be implemented by this spec?	10:06
johnthetubaguy	jianghuawang: I think we can do your own thing before that merges, just using the same framework	10:06
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johnthetubaguy	oslo.versionedobjects is just a lib that gives us the modelling to version the data format, basically	10:06
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johnthetubaguy	so I could be seeing this all wrong, I need to go dig a little	10:07
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BobBall	We can dig too	10:07
johnthetubaguy	ah, here we go	10:07
johnthetubaguy	https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/objects/compute_node.py#L81	10:07
BobBall	I think that just leaves the question of how to specify that we want a vGPU - flavor vs instance	10:07
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johnthetubaguy	pci_device_pools is a PciDevicePoolList object	10:07
johnthetubaguy	BobBall: I think hard code the whole thing in flavor, as a first attempt	10:08
johnthetubaguy	the flaovr decomposition work should fix the issues that creates	10:08
johnthetubaguy	matches what we do with PCI passthrough right now, as I understand it	10:08
BobBall	OK - I'll comment on the spec linking to this IRC chat and explaining why we're doing it in flavor for now	10:08
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BobBall	Does flavor decomposition have a spec for mitaka? or is it post-mitaka?	10:09
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johnthetubaguy	I think its for mitaka	10:10
johnthetubaguy	but honestly, it feels more like an N thing, if we are realistic	10:10
BobBall	OK, so we'll need to link to that spec in our VGPU spec	10:10
BobBall	Understood	10:10
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johnthetubaguy	not sure you need a link	10:10
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johnthetubaguy	I think just saying in the alternatives section that you note there is a problem with too many flavors, but that it can be sorted by flavor decomposition work at a later date	10:11
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BobBall	ok	10:11
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jianghuawang	ok	10:11
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BobBall	So - in summary...	10:12
BobBall	1) a few more details in the justification, explaining models and why VGPU has no PCI devices	10:12
BobBall	2) Convert to use an object	10:12
BobBall	3) Keep flavor definition as defined in the current spec but talk about why in the alternatives section	10:12
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johnthetubaguy	yeah, I think thats it	10:13
BobBall	Is that right, or did I miss something?	10:13
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BobBall	Perfect - many thanks for the live review johnthetubaguy :)	10:13
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jianghuawang	add my thanks.	10:14
BobBall	We were also going to cover Neutron + MOS but we're 15 minutes over and I'm over-running for a meeting with huazhihao	10:14
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huazhihao	many thanks	10:14
johnthetubaguy	so the capabilities filter thing is an open question I think	10:14
johnthetubaguy	but lets get the other bits sorted first	10:14
BobBall	Quick potted summary... we've got a very interesting bugfix for the Neutron two-port issue, in the Nova VIF device	10:14
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BobBall	We've also got a bugfix for the Neutron/Nova races	10:14
johnthetubaguy	using the event system?	10:15
BobBall	both are quite recent and not quite ready for core review	10:15
BobBall	yes	10:15
johnthetubaguy	cool	10:15
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johnthetubaguy	do you have the XenAPI group in the etherpad yet?	10:15
johnthetubaguy	#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-priorities-tracking	10:15
BobBall	we did in Liberty not sure if it's there in the Mitaka etherpad	10:15
johnthetubaguy	if you haven't added it, its not there, I suspect	10:15
BobBall	It's not	10:15
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huanxie	johnthetubaguy: yes nova/neutron race condition use event notifictaion	10:16
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BobBall	We will populate those	10:17
BobBall	thanks johnthetubaguy	10:17
BobBall	We'll let you go now.	10:17
BobBall	#endmeeting	10:17
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings \|\| https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"		10:17
openstack	Meeting ended Wed Nov 11 10:17:37 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)	10:17
openstack	Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-11-11-09.31.html	10:17
openstack	Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-11-11-09.31.txt	10:17
openstack	Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-11-11-09.31.log.html	10:17
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SotK	Anyone here for the StoryBoard meeting?	15:00
Zara	storyboard meeting! come one, come all! we have dancing bears, ethically-treated dancing bears!	15:00
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SotK	#startmeeting storyboard	15:00
SotK	#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StoryBoard Agenda	15:01
openstack	Meeting started Wed Nov 11 15:00:59 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SotK. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:01
openstack	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.	15:01
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)"		15:01
openstack	The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'	15:01
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SotK	#topic Announcements	15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: storyboard)"		15:01
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SotK	We merged a bunch of things, one of which fixes the 'unknown parameter "offset"' bug in searches!	15:02
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Zara	yes, it's been a good day for reviews! (also I should announce that I was lying about the dancing bears.)	15:02
SotK	also the lists on the project groups page can now be paged through properly	15:02
Zara	yeah, lots of little irritating things are getting fixed	15:02
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Zara	it has been the day of UX cleanups	15:03
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* SotK is doing as much as he can before disappearing for a couple of weeks :D		15:04
SotK	#topic Urgent Items	15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Urgent Items (Meeting topic: storyboard)"		15:04
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Zara	yeah, actually that was probably worth an announcement: SotK is holidaying for a couple of weeks	15:04
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Zara	as for urgent items... email notifications patches are still in review!	15:04
SotK	#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:email,n,z email patches	15:05
Zara	these are important for projects using storyboard currently.	15:05
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Zara	otherwise they don't know when bugs are fixed, etc	15:05
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Zara	I think one patch has a -1 that SotK has responded to, and he's waiting to hear back	15:05
SotK	indeed	15:06
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* SotK assumes jeblair has been busy		15:06
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Zara	probably :( just tricky right before your holiday	15:06
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SotK	yup, I might check review.o.o a couple of times whilst I'm away though	15:07
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Zara	That would be extremely kind of you. I want things to keep moving.	15:07
Zara	but also I really hope you don't have to	15:07
Zara	because it is a holiday!	15:07
SotK	:)	15:08
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Zara	I'll do my bit over here, anyway	15:09
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SotK	thank you :)	15:09
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SotK	I don't know of anything else urgent...	15:09
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SotK	#topic In Progress Work	15:09
*** openstack changes topic to "In Progress Work (Meeting topic: storyboard)"		15:09
SotK	#info Worklists and boards are still ongoing.	15:09
SotK	#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+branch:master+topic:worklists,n,z Outstanding patches	15:10
Zara	:) I should get some reviews for those done over the next couple of weeks	15:10
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SotK	I looked a bit more at automatic worklists earlier this week, but didn't get round to finishing anything before I went on a UX-improving spree	15:10
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Zara	heh, don't worry about it. :) my work atm is mainly reviewing, so I'm not looking at any new features myself.	15:11
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Zara	I do need to chase up a task-tracker spec.	15:11
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* SotK looks forward to seeing progress on that front		15:12
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Zara	and yeah, lots of misc planning, gardening storyboard.openstack.org (since it's our biggest record of bugs), etc	15:13
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Zara	#info Zara doing various planning work for storyboard	15:13
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SotK	We talked about the status of the email stuff already	15:14
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SotK	#info SotK trying to fix as many of the problems in https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000397 as possible before he goes away	15:14
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SotK	I don't see any discussion topics, so onto open discussion I guess	15:15
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SotK	#topic Open Discussion	15:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)"		15:16
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Zara	should probably mention the summit; I feel like I've summarised it and discussed it as I've gone along so there's not lots to add	15:16
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Zara	people urgently wanted email notifications. a development branch was also mentioned.	15:17
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SotK	yeah, its definitely going to be useful to set up storyboard-dev.openstack.org	15:18
SotK	I'll look into doing that when I get back if you like?	15:18
Zara	yeah, as long as you won't be totally swamped...	15:18
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Zara	re: migration: currently, infra want a tool that will be ready fast, and maniphest seemed like the faster option. that said, there isn't a spec for a task tracker yet, so it's not clear what the right option is meant to do	15:19
SotK	I shouldn't be, unless you're planning to create a giant backlog for me in revenge :)	15:19
Zara	so 'ready' is a bit unclear atm.	15:20
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Zara	for now I want to keep up with what's going on; there seemed to be some launchpad/maniphest tensions and there might be more down the road	15:20
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Zara	so we're wise to keep fixing things and to keep an eye on what's needed.	15:22
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Zara	otherwise I think this all may repeat forever! :)	15:23
SotK	keeping up fixing things and trying to define ready seems like the best we can do at the moment	15:23
Zara	yup	15:23
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Zara	I want to keep it constructive, really.	15:24
Zara	hmmm... other discussion points...	15:24
* SotK doesn't have any		15:24
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Zara	I think that's all I have, too; if I remember anything I'll mention it in #storyboard	15:25
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SotK	excellent :)	15:25
SotK	#endmeeting	15:25
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings \|\| https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"		15:25
openstack	Meeting ended Wed Nov 11 15:25:31 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)	15:25
openstack	Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-11-11-15.00.html	15:25
openstack	Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-11-11-15.00.txt	15:25
openstack	Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-11-11-15.00.log.html	15:25
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smcginnis	#startmeeting Cinder	16:00
openstack	Meeting started Wed Nov 11 16:00:19 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	16:00
openstack	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.	16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)"		16:00
openstack	The meeting name has been set to 'cinder'	16:00
mriedem	o/	16:00
jseiler	hi	16:00
* DuncanT waves		16:00
scottda	hi	16:00
diablo_rojo	Hello :)	16:00
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jgregor	Hello!	16:00
tbarron	hi	16:00
xyang1	hi	16:00
ntpttr1	Hi	16:00
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abhi	hi	16:00
e0ne	hi	16:01
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rhedlind-m	hi	16:01
smcginnis	Hey everyone.	16:01
baumann	Hello!	16:01
flip214	hi	16:01
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e0ne	#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_meeting	16:01
smcginnis	No announcements. Let's get right to it.	16:01
jgriffith	0/	16:01
smcginnis	#topic cinder-api-microversions	16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "cinder-api-microversions (Meeting topic: Cinder)"		16:01
smcginnis	scottda: Hey	16:01
scottda	hi	16:01
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scottda	Xing pointed out some things about API microversions spec	16:02
scottda	https://review.openstack.org/#/c/223803/9	16:02
scottda	That were encountered by Manila	16:02
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scottda	1) API extensions cannot be versioned	16:02
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scottda	Manila moved API extensions into core so they can be versioned	16:02
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scottda	I'd like to but something in the spec for this, but do the work separately.	16:03
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smcginnis	If I remember right, there was some discussion at the kilo midcycle about pulling API extensions in to core.	16:03
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scottda	smcginnis: Yes	16:03
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e0ne	IMO, I'm OK with moving excentions to core, but we need to take care about backward compatibility	16:03
scottda	I don't know if anyone wants to drive that? or if it is controversial?	16:03
smcginnis	scottda: And that's fine to do it as a follow up IMO. We only need them moved once we want to microversion them, right?	16:03
DuncanT	e0ne: +1	16:03
scottda	smcginnis: Yes.	16:04
* bswartz creeps in late		16:04
e0ne	we must follow deprecation policy for APIs	16:04
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DuncanT	smcginnis: Ideally, the otehr way round	16:04
smcginnis	bswartz: We see you! :)	16:04
smcginnis	DuncanT: How so?	16:04
DuncanT	e0ne: Or just redirect the URLs so that they keep working	16:04
smcginnis	DuncanT: I think that's what manila did.?	16:04
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e0ne	DuncanT: agree, it's a simple and usable solution	16:05
DuncanT	smcginnis: Ideally you want extensions (which in our case include very core stuff) in your initial API version	16:05
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bswartz	yeah in manila we moved our extensions to make them core APIs -- we used redirects to avoid breaking anything existing	16:05
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scottda	So should this be done before/at_the_same_time/after api-microversions?	16:05
DuncanT	smcginnis: Otherwise, your first API contract isn't enough to actually use the service	16:05
smcginnis	bswartz: Did that need to be done before microversions were introduced?	16:05
smcginnis	bswartz: I thought I saw Valeriy just do that.	16:05
bswartz	no, definitely after	16:05
jgriffith	scottda: before IMO	16:06
bswartz	get microversions merged and working first, then tackle the extensions	16:06
jgriffith	haha	16:06
* jgriffith is apparantly wrong		16:06
bswartz	that way you can microversion the extension rename	16:06
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smcginnis	Isn't 2.0 our first API contract? So as it is now should be fine, then we need to redirect once we want to have a 2.1.	16:06
* DuncanT is with jgriffith		16:06
xyang1	bswartz: i think we are moving all extentions to core first, after they are merged, rename and change microversion	16:06
jgriffith	bswartz: smcginnis I guess my thought was more of the "same time"	16:06
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bswartz	we force people who use newer microversions to call the new URLs paths -- if they use the old paths with a new microversion they get 404	16:07
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smcginnis	bswartz: That makes sense to me.	16:07
bswartz	it's our way of encouraging application writers to stay current with the API	16:07
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smcginnis	+1	16:07
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scottda	And if they use old paths with no microversion, everything works	16:07
bswartz	of course anyone sticking with an older microversion (or no microversion at all) will not break	16:08
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smcginnis	scottda: I thought that is why it would need to be after introducing microversions.	16:08
scottda	So, I think the move of API extensions can occur after microversions lands.	16:08
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DuncanT	What do we do with API changes to extensions in the mean time (e.g. backing up snapshots)?	16:08
jungleboyj	o/ Sorry I am late.	16:08
scottda	DuncanT: you wait for microversions to land	16:08
* smcginnis marks jungleboyj tardy		16:08
scottda	and then move the extensions	16:08
scottda	and then land backing up snapshots	16:08
jgriffith	scottda: that seems kinda risky... but I guess it forces the issue	16:09
jgriffith	scottda: no pressure	16:09
scottda	hehe	16:09
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scottda	I'm seeing lots of reviews on API changes that say "this should come after microversions" anyway	16:09
scottda	which makes sense	16:09
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scottda	So, let's land the spec and move to the code reviews....	16:09
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scottda	and thus this conversation.	16:10
xyang1	actually I am not sure if it makes a difference, the extension does not have version now anyway	16:10
scottda	So, I'll update the spec to do extension move later, but probably soon....	16:10
xyang1	scottda: I am saying it doesn't have to wait	16:10
smcginnis	xyang1: That was what I thought.	16:10
scottda	OK, I think we are on the same page	16:10
scottda	issue #2:	16:10
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scottda	Use of the microversion "latest" can cause problems, and did in Manila	16:11
smcginnis	#info Need to land microversions, then move extensions	16:11
scottda	But, I think we (and Nova) need "latest" to properly run Tempest tests...	16:11
bswartz	scottda: that's not accurate	16:11
scottda	This was discussed at the Tokyo Summit	16:11
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scottda	bswartz: OK, but you (Manila) do not have Tempest tests in-tree	16:12
jgriffith	scottda: bswartz isn't "no version" == latest ?	16:12
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bswartz	in my mail thread I stated that using microversion "latest" results in inherently undefined behaviour, and a user should never do it	16:12
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bswartz	however for nova, they needed it because their tests were out of tree	16:12
scottda	jgriffith: no	16:12
bswartz	cinder may need it for a similar reason	16:12
DuncanT	jgriffith: no version = 2.0	16:12
scottda	jgriffith: "no version" is lowest supported version, i.e. 2.0	16:12
smcginnis	jgriffith: no version == oldest (aka 2.0)	16:12
bswartz	"latest" makes sense as a hack to make tests work	16:12
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scottda	latest is highest version	16:12
jgriffith	:)	16:12
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smcginnis	bswartz: So the issue is "latest" is kind of a moving target?	16:13
DuncanT	But how can you write tests against an unknown version?	16:13
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scottda	bswartz: Yes, so we need latest, and cannot do what Manila did because of Tempest, just like NOva	16:13
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DuncanT	scottda: I'm not sure why the tests need 'lastest'	16:13
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DuncanT	scottda: It is fundamentally an undefined target	16:13
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bswartz	"latest" means what it sounds like -- you don't know what you're going to get -- but when testing it can get you out of jail	16:14
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bswartz	the issue with keeping your tests in a separate git repo is that it's hard to add a new microversion and add tests for it at the same time	16:14
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scottda	I'm not positive on why the Tempest team wants or needs "latest", it is either a "must have" or a "very hard not to have"	16:15
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e0ne	scottda: +1. why does tempes require "latest"?	16:15
smcginnis	Not to add more work and confusion - but wasn't there some talk of moving our tempest tests in-tree?	16:15
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bswartz	+1 for moving some tests in tree	16:16
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jgriffith	smcginnis: that would only be "some", but not all	16:16
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scottda	e0ne: I'll have to get the details...I don't recall right now.	16:16
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jgriffith	smcginnis: perhaps the ones that are affected by "new/latest" makes sense	16:16
bswartz	tests that only test cinder should absolutely be in tree -- tests that test integration between cinder and other things should probably remain in tempest	16:16
scottda	mriedem: Do you know why Nova/cinder Tempest for microversions needs lates?	16:16
smcginnis	jgriffith: Ah, OK. So base level cinder functionality remains in tempest, then enhanced coverage in cinder?	16:16
DuncanT	You can as cinder what its latest supported version is, and surely tests need to target a known version?	16:16
smcginnis	jgriffith: +1	16:16
jgriffith	smcginnis: just an idea	16:16
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smcginnis	jgriffith: One that makes sense.	16:16
mriedem	lates?	16:16
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scottda	microversion= "latest"	16:17
mriedem	oh, latest	16:17
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mriedem	did tempest land the microversion testing yet?	16:17
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mriedem	i think tempest was going to test lower bound and latest	16:17
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mriedem	just so there is bounds testing	16:17
bswartz	my thread on "latest" microversion:	16:17
bswartz	#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/073070.html	16:17
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mriedem	yeah i know about that	16:17
mriedem	and we hit latest issues with novaclient	16:17
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mriedem	as in defaulting to latest for novaclient was a bad idea when the client didn't support latest	16:18
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scottda	mriedem: Yes	16:18
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scottda	to bounds checking	16:18
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mriedem	but it still seems like that's not going to work	16:19
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mriedem	in novaclient we cap the upper limit on what we know the client to support at that time	16:19
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mriedem	as the client adds new support, we raise that limit	16:19
mriedem	i'd think tempest would have to do the same	16:19
scottda	And that works for Tempest testing?	16:19
mriedem	b/c if nova renames an API in v2.20 and tempest isn't ready, it will explode	16:19
scottda	ok, I'll investigate further and update the spec when I'm certain of Tempest needs	16:19
mriedem	i don't think tempest has nova microversion testing yet	16:19
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mriedem	k'inichi was working on it i tink	16:19
mriedem	*think	16:19
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mriedem	mtreinish: ^	16:20
scottda	mriedem: I don't think so either	16:20
jgriffith	scottda: not sure how else you would do it? I mean... why wouldn't your tests consume the API the same as your users?	16:20
scottda	But it is being worked on	16:20
mriedem	jgriffith: useres aren't supposed to ask for 2.latest	16:20
scottda	I'll get some details and put them in the spec....	16:20
mriedem	they are support to opt-in to what they can handle	16:20
jgriffith	mriedem: no, that's my point	16:20
scottda	don't want to rathole on this further, agenda for today is long	16:20
mriedem	ok, yeah	16:20
jgriffith	mriedem: IMO the tempest tests should just "work" as they do now, default to lowest version	16:20
mriedem	nova specifically put in it's rest api docs that 2.latest is a thing but don't use it	16:20
jgriffith	mriedem: if tempest wants to test a new version (micro-version or whatever) that's explicit	16:21
mriedem	yeah, i think that's the idea	16:21
jgriffith	mriedem: we don't do the "latest" strategy at all	16:21
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mriedem	test lower bound and 'interesting points' in between as sdague says	16:21
scottda	OK. Thanks, I'll verify the latest issue and update the spec	16:21
jgriffith	mriedem: yes.. that sounds right	16:21
scottda	Thanks. Ok to move on.	16:21
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smcginnis	jgriffith: That makes sense to me.	16:22
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smcginnis	scottda: OK, thanks!	16:22
e0ne	jgriffith: +1. tempest should work in same way as other API clients	16:22
smcginnis	My parts should be quick, so the agenda isn't really as bad as it looks.	16:22
smcginnis	#topic Spec status	16:22
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smcginnis	After being prodded several times by scottda, I've put up an etherpad to start tracking specs. :)	16:23
scottda	:)	16:23
smcginnis	This is something nova does regularly in their meetings.	16:23
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smcginnis	So not much to it right now, but the idea is if we stick to it, it will help in the long run.	16:23
smcginnis	#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-cinder-spec-review-tracking	16:23
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smcginnis	#info Start tracking specs in etherpad.	16:23
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smcginnis	There's also a link to all our open specs in the meeting agenda.	16:24
jgriffith	smcginnis: cool	16:24
smcginnis	It would be good to get those reviewed earlier in the cycle so we don't have a crunch at the end.	16:24
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e0ne	smcginnis: good idea, +2	16:24
smcginnis	So please do if you have the cycles. :)	16:24
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smcginnis	#topic Bug Status	16:25
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smcginnis	Another nova suggestion. And probably a good one to get visibility.	16:25
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smcginnis	I'm working on some scripts to make this easier to get using some existing infra scripts.	16:25
smcginnis	But for now I've put a few numbers as of last night into the agenda.	16:25
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smcginnis	Bottom line - we have a ton of bugs out there and they could probably use some attention.	16:26
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e0ne	smcginnis: what about to announce bug triage day on regular basis?	16:26
smcginnis	We have several that have been out there for quite some time.	16:26
smcginnis	e0ne: We can try. I do like the idea.	16:26
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smcginnis	I think the last few times we've tried that it kind of fizzled.	16:26
smcginnis	But I would be up for it.	16:27
e0ne	smcginnis: I can send e-mail like I did in the past	16:27
smcginnis	e0ne: +1 Awesome, that would be great.	16:27
e0ne	sending e-mail costs almost nothing	16:27
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smcginnis	I have a feeling a lot of them (especially from 2013) can probably just be closed at this point.	16:27
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kmartin	smcginnis, did you run the query to auto close bugs > then N years?	16:28
smcginnis	But it would be good to validate that.	16:28
smcginnis	kmartin: I did.	16:28
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smcginnis	Anything that didn't have any activity older than 1-1-2015 I think I closed.	16:28
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smcginnis	If there was activity (in-progress, etc) I left it alone.	16:28
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smcginnis	I'm sure there was probably something in that set of bugs that is still legitimate, so a bit of a risk.	16:29
e0ne	in-progress have to be cleaned too	16:29
smcginnis	But it seemed a little too unmanagable at 700+ open bugs, and if it was out there that long there's a good chance it either didn't matter or was fixed by other changes.	16:29
e0ne	>2-3 month in-progress means it is not really in progress	16:29
smcginnis	e0ne: Yeah, probably.	16:29
jgriffith	hehe	16:29
smcginnis	I was being conservative to start.	16:29
sdague	(sorry, it's late, from the ping, but https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169126/ explains the testing strategy for microversions from tempest)	16:30
smcginnis	sdague: Thanks!	16:30
scottda	sdague: thanks	16:30
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smcginnis	While we're on the topic, I'll also take this opportunity to state that changing comment text or refactoring code most likely is not a "bug".	16:31
smcginnis	So please don't file bugs just to close them with trivial patches.	16:31
e0ne	smcginnis: +1	16:31
smcginnis	I think bugs are only valuable if they actually document an issue in the code that could affect someone.	16:31
tbarron	++	16:32
e0ne	and don't -1 to ask to file a such bug	16:32
xyang1	smcginnis: refactoring a driver could be thousands of lines of code	16:32
smcginnis	+111	16:32
xyang1	smcginnis: you sure you don't want to track that	16:32
smcginnis	xyang1: Then that sounds more like a bp to me.	16:32
xyang1	smcginnis: yes	16:32
DuncanT	xyang1: A good refactor is a bunch of patches that move a bit each	16:32
smcginnis	xyang1: If the driver works before and the driver works after then there wasn't really a bug there.	16:32
smcginnis	But a bp would be good for tracking if it's significant.	16:33
DuncanT	xyang1: Multi-thousand line patches are not reviewable, so not acceptable IMO	16:33
smcginnis	DuncanT: No several thousand line code changes? :)	16:33
e0ne	DuncanT: +1	16:33
xyang1	:)	16:33
smcginnis	Only with donuts. :)	16:33
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e0ne	only removig several thousand LoC is good:)	16:33
smcginnis	e0ne: Yes!	16:34
tbarron	:)	16:34
DuncanT	e0ne: rm -rf cinder; git commit -am "All bug removed"	16:34
flip214	DuncanT: only very few features left, too.	16:34
smcginnis	DuncanT: Some may upvote that. ;)	16:34
xyang1	refactoring means thousands are removed and thousand are added	16:34
e0ne	DuncanT: -1, please add Closes-Bug	16:34
* bswartz points out that simply renaming a file with 500 lines counts as a 1000 line patch		16:34
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flip214	bswartz: depends on your git config.	16:34
jungleboyj	Coffee and donuts. Right xyang1 ?	16:34
xyang1	bs+1	16:34
smcginnis	Anyway...	16:35
xyang1	jungleboyj: yes, if it works:)	16:35
smcginnis	#topic Go forward with use-cinder-without-nova blueprint	16:35
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smcginnis	e0ne: Hi	16:35
e0ne	hi	16:35
xyang1	bswartz: sorry, I mean your comment	16:35
smcginnis	#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/224124/	16:35
e0ne	I want to contibue our session at Summit and deside that we are on the same page	16:35
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e0ne	and, of course get more and more feedback on it	16:36
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e0ne	the main question is	16:37
e0ne	what should we as community do to make it a part of cinder?	16:37
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e0ne	it==python-brickclient	16:38
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smcginnis	Sorry, I have it in my list to get back to.	16:38
DuncanT	IMO yes, it needs to make it into gate eventually, or it /will/ break	16:38
smcginnis	It looked like it was on the right track last time I looked.	16:38
smcginnis	DuncanT: Agree	16:39
DuncanT	Even none-voting is better than nothing	16:39
e0ne	DuncanT: that's why we need to move it from my github to openstack	16:39
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DuncanT	e0ne: +1	16:39
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e0ne	DuncanT: because even if it will have tests, w/o it's nothing	16:40
smcginnis	Anyone against having this added as an offical project?	16:40
e0ne	not me:)	16:40
smcginnis	e0ne: ;)	16:40
e0ne	https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243080/ - Add python-brickclient to OpenStack	16:40
smcginnis	#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243080/	16:41
smcginnis	Any concerns, vote there. ^^	16:41
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e0ne	jgriffith has a consern about it	16:41
xyang1	a sub-project under cinder?	16:41
e0ne	xyang1: yes	16:42
smcginnis	Like python-cinderclient.	16:42
jungleboyj	e0ne: ++	16:42
jgriffith	e0ne: yeah, maybe I'm missing something	16:42
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jgriffith	e0ne: not following exactly why we'd do that... instead of having say cinderclient consume brick as a lib (like libs usually work)	16:42
e0ne	we can do it inside cinderclient, but I don's want to confuse anyone more with one more 'attach' api.	16:42
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e0ne	even if it will have other binary name	16:43
jgriffith	e0ne: ahh... yeah, that makes sense	16:43
jgriffith	e0ne: but	16:43
DuncanT	e0ne: +1	16:43
smcginnis	I think the discussion was to have a separate client to avoid confusion.	16:43
jgriffith	e0ne: why couldn't we just have a config option and do that?	16:43
jgriffith	e0ne: so use the same method we have today to talk with Cinder and get things like policy etc?	16:43
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e0ne	jgriffith: I'm not fun of config for clients	16:43
jgriffith	e0ne: that way that command never even shows up if it's not enabled via policy	16:43
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jgriffith	e0ne: well it doesn't have to be config	16:44
smcginnis	jgriffith: Could you explain a little how that works?	16:44
e0ne	jgriffith: how can we handle optional requirements for cinderclient?	16:44
jgriffith	e0ne: but honestly that seems WAYYY better to me than building all the framework for a brick client when brick was supposedly just a lib	16:44
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jgriffith	e0ne: smcginnis if you have it disabled in policy file it won't be exposed IIRC	16:45
jgriffith	e0ne: smcginnis I can look into that	16:45
DuncanT	jgriffith: But it uses the same calls as nova....	16:45
jgriffith	DuncanT: those are compute-extensions, we don't expose them currently	16:45
smcginnis	I do like the idea of not duplicating code to have a separate client.	16:45
jgriffith	DuncanT: if you do a "cinder help" you don't see them currently	16:46
e0ne	DuncanT, jgriffith: keystone trusts could help us for this	16:46
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jungleboyj	smcginnis: You do like duplicating code?	16:47
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smcginnis	jungleboyj: NOT duplicating code! :P	16:47
mtanino	+1	16:47
e0ne	"cinder attach" via CLI and python API will be different	16:48
e0ne	it's a not user friendly at all	16:48
jungleboyj	smcginnis: :-) Just making sure.	16:48
e0ne	openstack-baseclient? :)	16:48
jungleboyj	smcginnis: Oh, you did have a 'not' in there. My bad.	16:48
* jungleboyj can't read today		16:48
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e0ne	IMO, code duplication is the other issue wich should be fixed separatly	16:49
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smcginnis	jungleboyj: http://www.zennioptical.com/	16:49
smcginnis	jungleboyj: :)	16:49
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e0ne	info: we've got only 5 minutes more for this topic	16:49
e0ne	or less	16:49
smcginnis	My 2 cents - I think we need this functionality. We just shouldn't impose confusion or difficulty for our "main" cinder consumers.	16:50
jgriffith	smcginnis: agreed	16:50
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jungleboyj	smcginnis: +1	16:50
jgriffith	smcginnis: and IMO having multiple clients would do just that :)	16:50
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smcginnis	If that means a separate client, great. If we have a clean way of doing it without a separate client - awesome.	16:50
e0ne	smcginnis: +1	16:50
xyang1	smcginnis: +1	16:51
jgriffith	smcginnis: so I have to use cinderclient to create etc	16:51
jgriffith	smcginnis: then jump over to this 'brick' thing to attach	16:51
jgriffith	blah	16:51
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smcginnis	jgriffith: I think the idea was both pieces of functionality would be in the new client.	16:51
smcginnis	So there would be some overlap.	16:51
smcginnis	But I could be wrong.	16:51
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jgriffith	smcginnis: so that's cool... but like I said in the review; that's probably the right answer but it should be in the cinderclient	16:52
jgriffith	smcginnis: not the other way around	16:52
jgriffith	at least I think so	16:52
jgriffith	anyway	16:52
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jgriffith	I'll look again	16:52
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smcginnis	jgriffith: Very fair point.	16:52
jgriffith	no need to take up time here	16:52
smcginnis	e0ne: Good enough for now?	16:52
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e0ne	yes	16:52
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smcginnis	e0ne: Thanks!	16:52
smcginnis	#topic Mid-cycle survey results	16:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Mid-cycle survey results (Meeting topic: Cinder)"		16:53
smcginnis	Drumroll...	16:53
e0ne	smcginnis: I'll wait your and jgriffith's comments in the review	16:53
smcginnis	DuncanT: How did things turn out?	16:53
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DuncanT	Ok	16:53
kmartin	paging DuncanT	16:53
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Swanson	Survey results were "Ok"? Not a detailed survey?	16:54
e0ne	:)	16:54
DuncanT	25th - 29th won by a fair bit.	16:54
DuncanT	25th - 29th won by a fair bit.	16:54
smcginnis	:D	16:54
scottda	c'mon Drama King, out with it!	16:54
kmartin	lol	16:54
DuncanT	Sorry, connection issues	16:54
smcginnis	DuncanT: OK, overlap with nova, but that's not a huge deal.	16:54
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smcginnis	No air raids during Cinder meetings please.	16:55
jgriffith	LOL	16:55
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smcginnis	DuncanT: Did we lose you again?	16:56
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diablo_rojo	the silence is killing me	16:56
scottda	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xv2c1tKP/	16:56
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smcginnis	He;s just building suspense.	16:56
scottda	From DuncanT ^^^	16:56
jungleboyj	I CAN'T TAKE IT!	16:56
scottda	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/3LpS8zyW/	16:56
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smcginnis	Dublin and Raleigh near neck -and -neck, but 15 couldn't make Dublin .v. 1 who	16:56
smcginnis	can't make the US.	16:56
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smcginnis	Internet pastebin chat - IPC	16:57
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hemna	sorry I missed the meeting. I forgot it was at 8am, not 9am. :(	16:57
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smcginnis	tbarron: Does hosting still work for you?	16:57
scottda	That's all I've got from DuncanT ^^	16:57
DuncanT	Thanks, Scott	16:57
smcginnis	DuncanT: Yay, he's back!	16:58
DuncanT	I think that covers it	16:58
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smcginnis	DuncanT: So week of the 25th, Raleigh or Dublin, but Dublin would be a few less attendees?	16:58
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DuncanT	Yup	16:58
flip214	then lets take Dublin ;)	16:58
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DuncanT	15 less according to the servey	16:58
tbarron	smcginnis: sure,	16:59
hemna	oh survey results ?	16:59
bswartz	Dublin would be better in the summer than the winter IMO	16:59
DuncanT	bswartz: +1	16:59
* eharney forgot about the time change, hi everyone		16:59
smcginnis	bswartz: Yeah	16:59
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hemna	eharney, you aren't the only one.	16:59
tbarron	smcginnis: sorry, am doing two meetings at once	16:59
smcginnis	hemna: At least you beat eharney. ;)	16:59
scottda	out of time	17:00
hemna	smcginnis, yeah!!!!	17:00
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DuncanT	My big take-out from this is that a non-US midcycle is probably coming, but best do that for summer, not now	17:00
smcginnis	Follow up later.	17:00
smcginnis	Thanks everyone.	17:00
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jungleboyj	DuncanT: ++	17:00
smcginnis	#endmeeting	17:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings \|\| https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"		17:00
openstack	Meeting ended Wed Nov 11 17:00:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)	17:00
openstack	Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-11-11-16.00.html	17:00
openstack	Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-11-11-16.00.txt	17:00
openstack	Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-11-11-16.00.log.html	17:00
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krtaylor	#startmeeting ironic-qa	17:00
openstack	Meeting started Wed Nov 11 17:00:49 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	17:00
openstack	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.	17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic-qa)"		17:00
openstack	The meeting name has been set to 'ironic_qa'	17:00
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krtaylor	who is here for ironic-qa meeting?	17:01
liliars	o/	17:01
Watanabe_isao	o/	17:01
cdearborn	o/	17:01
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maurosr	o/	17:01
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krtaylor	jlvillal is out today and asked me to chair for him	17:01
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krtaylor	hi everyone	17:02
krtaylor	here is the agenda:	17:02
krtaylor	#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic-QA	17:02
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krtaylor	any quick announcements?	17:02
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liliars	I think the etherpad Sam created and was an action item of the last meeting	17:03
liliars	but it is already in the wiki page	17:03
krtaylor	yes, we have an etherpad now	17:03
krtaylor	#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicCI	17:03
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krtaylor	ok, let's get started then	17:04
krtaylor	#topic Grenade testing of Ironic	17:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Grenade testing of Ironic (Meeting topic: ironic-qa)"		17:04
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* krtaylor checks the contact		17:05
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krtaylor	we need to put discussion owners in the agenda so we can get status	17:05
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krtaylor	anyone have anything to discuss on Grenade?	17:06
liliars	true, I think this was something jlvillal was taking over	17:06
krtaylor	I know jlvillal has been making progress there, hit a couple of snags	17:06
liliars	yeah same	17:06
krtaylor	yeah, we may need to defer to next week	17:06
liliars	didn't have time to take a loot at it though, but will do	17:07
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* krtaylor is slow in irc meetings, tooo many distractions :)		17:07
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liliars	hah I know the feeling	17:07
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krtaylor	lets move on then	17:07
krtaylor	#topic Functional testing of Ironic	17:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Functional testing of Ironic (Meeting topic: ironic-qa)"		17:08
krtaylor	I have not been focused on this effort the past week at all	17:08
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krtaylor	anyone have status/discussion points?	17:08
liliars	I kinda have a question involving that	17:09
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liliars	we talked about driver specific functional tests not being in the ironic umbrella	17:09
liliars	the ones that apply for drivers in general too?	17:09
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liliars	because we could contribute with some of our functional tests if it was the case	17:10
liliars	the ones not oneview-specific	17:10
krtaylor	I agree with that, but wonder is a base case should be tested	17:10
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liliars	hmm, I think yes	17:11
maurosr	I think that at very least sharing your base tests helps the other of us trying to do the same, +1 for it	17:11
krtaylor	since we can't deploy hardware in infra, do we start with pxe_ssh and do a deploy?	17:12
krtaylor	maurosr ++	17:12
liliars	yeah, would be happy to do it (:	17:12
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krtaylor	liliars, do you have a repo to drop them?	17:13
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liliars	right now is just internal	17:13
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krtaylor	we have a third party ci repo I created for just such things	17:13
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liliars	oh ok cool, I think there is a link in the spec right?	17:13
liliars	now that you mentiones	17:13
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krtaylor	I know cinder has used if for CI tools, I don't see why we couldn't use it to share ironic things as well	17:13
liliars	mentioned*	17:13
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krtaylor	liliars, yes, it is there under the third party working group	17:14
liliars	cool will take a look	17:14
liliars	we could probably put it there yeah, will talk to folks over here	17:14
krtaylor	liliars, the tests would be very interesting, I'll work with you to share there if you wish	17:14
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liliars	krtaylor, cool! will let you know asap	17:15
krtaylor	ok, anything else on functional testing?	17:15
Watanabe_isao	krtaylor, could you give me a link of it, please? The third party working group you mentioned.	17:16
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sambetts	Sorry I'm late	17:16
krtaylor	Watanabe_isao, sure	17:16
krtaylor	#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartyCIWorkingGroup	17:17
liliars	Watanabe_isao: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/241294/3 you can also find it in the spec (and take a look at it meanwhile :))	17:17
krtaylor	I no longer chair that group, but it is in even better hands with asselin now :)	17:17
asselin_	Watanabe_isao, hi	17:17
krtaylor	speakin gof :)	17:17
krtaylor	and of	17:18
Watanabe_isao	krtaylor, thank you very much. Looking..:)	17:18
krtaylor	since we are discussing already...	17:18
Watanabe_isao	asselin_, hi.	17:18
krtaylor	#topic third party CI	17:18
*** openstack changes topic to "third party CI (Meeting topic: ironic-qa)"		17:18
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krtaylor	so, the spec is making good progress	17:18
* krtaylor fumbles for a link		17:18
Watanabe_isao	https://review.openstack.org/#/c/241294	17:19
krtaylor	#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/241294/	17:19
krtaylor	hehheh	17:19
krtaylor	thanks Watanabe_isao	17:19
liliars	hahh	17:19
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krtaylor	and liliars	17:19
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Watanabe_isao	:)	17:19
krtaylor	I see you also posed it	17:19
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krtaylor	anyway, reviews are welcome	17:19
liliars	(:	17:20
krtaylor	it is somewhat unusual spec in that it doesn't push code exactly	17:20
krtaylor	but will drive doc changes, patches to move drivers, etc	17:20
cdearborn	thx	17:20
sambetts	lucas left a comment to that effect I think,	17:20
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liliars	yeah just saw lucas's comment	17:21
krtaylor	sambetts, yes, I wanted to discuss with him	17:21
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krtaylor	I personally think it is a useful place to document what is agreed upon	17:21
cdearborn	+1	17:22
krtaylor	but agree it is somewhat unusual	17:22
krtaylor	any questions or comments?	17:22
krtaylor	I'll crank out another version today incorporating the review comments, so reviews today would be great	17:23
sambetts	I think we need to talk to lucas and see what he's thinking	17:23
krtaylor	sambetts, agreed	17:23
liliars	I also don't have an issue with it being a spec, but we should def talk to lucas	17:23
krtaylor	absolutely, I'll take that action	17:24
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Watanabe_isao	liliars, what is the etherpad of IronicCI related with CI works, please?	17:24
krtaylor	#action krtaylor to discuss CI spec with lucas	17:24
Watanabe_isao	https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicCI	17:24
liliars	thanks	17:24
liliars	thats the etherpad yeah	17:25
Watanabe_isao	liliars, do you know if vendor need to update their progress there or something?	17:25
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liliars	mostly third-party CI driven	17:26
liliars	if I'm not mistaken we did agree on that	17:26
liliars	sambetts might know better	17:26
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liliars	though I also think krtaylor was about to start on that (:	17:27
krtaylor	Watanabe_isao, I'd expect vendors to come here and to the infra third party CI, and document their progress in the etherpad	17:27
krtaylor	I can document that in the spec :)	17:27
sambetts	I personally think thats something we should do, it gives us somewhere to track the progress of all the different drivers so that we don't have to waste any time in each of these meetings going over everyones progress	17:27
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krtaylor	exactly, and it fits with this mission for sure	17:27
liliars	sambetts +1	17:27
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Watanabe_isao	krtaylor, sambetts liliars ,thanks for the answer.	17:28
liliars	yeah then we can discuss mostly issues and such	17:28
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Watanabe_isao	+1	17:28
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sambetts	:) ironic does the same thing for all the subteams	17:28
liliars	true	17:28
krtaylor	#agreed vendor third party CI status will be tracked in the Ironic CI etherpad	17:28
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krtaylor	we can summarize and report in the subteam status	17:29
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sambetts	I've included sections for the community drivers too, because I believe we're treating them the same way	17:29
krtaylor	yes, and its a good list to make sure it's all covered (or not)	17:29
krtaylor	like ipmi	17:30
liliars	do we already have someone to link to these drivers? I reckon we talked about it but no conclusion	17:30
cdearborn	qq - at the summit, I believe it was agreed that the goal was to have the CI plumbing working for the drivers by the end of Mitaka, actual testing was not necessary at that milestone. Is this still the case?	17:30
krtaylor	jroll mentioned that there was a list of driver contacts, but I have not found it yet	17:30
krtaylor	cdearborn, I think we said M2, it is in the spec :)	17:31
liliars	I think we have some sort of list in the ironic white board etherpad, 1 sec	17:31
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cdearborn	krtaylor, thx! will review today or tomorrow	17:31
sambetts	I think we want to make sure there is someone linked to each driver for accountablity	17:31
liliars	yeah under drivers https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicWhiteBoard	17:31
krtaylor	cdearborn, that would be great	17:31
liliars	but I don't see community drivers	17:32
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krtaylor	liliars, well, community drivers would have either infra testing or be out of tree unless someone picked up testing for them	17:32
cdearborn	https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ironic/Drivers	17:32
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krtaylor	excellent, I'll put a link in the spec	17:33
liliars	yeah yeah I remember that discussion, just wanting to know if we have a name (if any) yet for such drivers	17:33
krtaylor	I know ipmi is still being worked	17:34
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liliars	ohh didn't remember that link cdearborn thanks (:	17:34
cdearborn	liliars, np!	17:34
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liliars	quick question	17:35
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krtaylor	we can document these links in the wiki as well, we have several, I want to work through that with jlvillal	17:35
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liliars	our ci is voting as code-review now and we talked about it only being able to vote as verify with a deploy job, any other requirements to be discussed?	17:36
liliars	so we can prepare (:	17:36
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krtaylor	liliars, good question, I am suggesting that voting not be allowed initially for the new driver testing, until proved reliable	17:37
krtaylor	it woul dbe comment only initially	17:37
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krtaylor	but in this case, I don't know	17:37
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liliars	yeah I agree with the reliable thing, just don't know what are we gonna consider reliable	17:38
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krtaylor	we don't want a situation where driver testing is unreliable and untrusted, that will lead to the results being ignored	17:38
liliars	like up and running for a specific time frame or something	17:38
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krtaylor	we have seen that in other projects	17:38
liliars	yeah I totally agree	17:39
krtaylor	well, that is an ongoing discussion, but first we needed a dashboard to track	17:39
krtaylor	but that needs enhancements to make sure they are good results	17:39
krtaylor	but that is a discussion we can have in the third party ci working group meeting	17:39
liliars	yeah, also logs	17:40
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liliars	sure! (:	17:40
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krtaylor	it is a global problem across all projects	17:40
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sambetts	Yeah, i believe other projects do it based on time frame	17:40
krtaylor	sambetts, each project determines reliability and their requirements for voting a bit differently	17:40
krtaylor	that can be a follow on discussion as well for ironic requirements	17:41
sambetts	yup :)	17:41
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krtaylor	ok, so any more discussion on ironic CI?	17:41
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krtaylor	let's move on then	17:41
krtaylor	#topic General QA topics	17:42
*** openstack changes topic to "General QA topics (Meeting topic: ironic-qa)"		17:42
krtaylor	not sure the content to be discussed here	17:42
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krtaylor	if no one has anything specific to this topic, I'll just shift to open discussion	17:43
sambetts	I've got nothing	17:43
liliars	fine by me	17:43
krtaylor	#topic Open Discussion	17:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: ironic-qa)"		17:43
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krtaylor	liliars, once the spec work settles down, I'd like to organize around the documentation for QA	17:44
krtaylor	I know jlvillal has some ideas	17:44
krtaylor	we should figure out what sections, where they'll live, etc	17:45
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liliars	cool, we can help	17:45
liliars	havent had the time to look into our docs recently but will do	17:45
liliars	things like how we set up the env and such	17:45
krtaylor	no worries, I'm still digging out from summit :)	17:46
liliars	and I also think we have some docs on planning the functional tests	17:46
liliars	90% sure	17:46
liliars	hah	17:46
krtaylor	perfect	17:46
krtaylor	anything else? anyone?	17:46
maurosr	krtaylor: a quick question, in that ironicCI etherpad our team status will be under ipmitool as well?	17:46
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maurosr	disclaimer: I work with Kurt =)	17:47
krtaylor	maurosr, excellent question, we are somewhat different	17:47
sambetts	I think there are docs needed for how to configure devstack ironic to work with physical hardware, I know this might be a vendor specific in somecases but it'll give us all a standard to work from	17:47
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sambetts	?	17:47
sambetts	WDYT?	17:47
krtaylor	maurosr, we'll have to talk about how we show platform testing, since we will be using community drivers	17:47
liliars	also the link to the third-party-ci etherpad could be in the specs krtaylor (:	17:48
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liliars	yeah sambetts I agree	17:48
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liliars	we have some	17:48
maurosr	right, I think it will probably br similar to libvirt's driver in nova for kvm in power and kvm in x86	17:48
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krtaylor	sambetts, agreed, we had to change things up a bit from standard infra in order to work with baremetal	17:48
liliars	some drafts* lets put it this way hah	17:49
krtaylor	maurosr, thats what I'm thinking as well, that opens it up for other platforms too, like ARM	17:49
sambetts	same, maybe we need to add some code to our devstack plugin to be able to disable the vms and all that setup they do for testing too, and ready it for physical	17:49
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sambetts	the ironic devstack plugin I mean	17:50
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liliars	also a troubleshooting section with things folks may face when setting up their envs as I personally think this is the worst part	17:50
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sambetts	+1	17:51
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krtaylor	liliars, but we also don't want to duplicate the excellent help given by the infra team CI meetings	17:51
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krtaylor	liliars, but we can keep it ironic specific	17:51
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liliars	yeah of course	17:52
liliars	just to sum up (:	17:52
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sambetts	yeah I'm think debugging of ironic devstack, not the jenkins wizardry side of things	17:52
liliars	hah +1	17:52
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krtaylor	yes, and network configuration	17:53
krtaylor	maurosr, ^^^	17:53
liliars	+1000	17:53
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krtaylor	that has been...fun	17:53
sambetts	and thats all going to change when the ml2 stuff goes in too	17:53
liliars	yay	17:54
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liliars	lets focus on the positives hah	17:54
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sambetts	:-P	17:54
maurosr	hehe	17:54
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krtaylor	ok, it feels like we are winding down	17:54
krtaylor	well, I didn't think we'd fill our time slot, but we are nearing the top of the hour	17:54
krtaylor	any last points?	17:55
sambetts	Nothing from me :)	17:55
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cdearborn	thx everyone, this was definitely helpful	17:55
liliars	me neither	17:55
krtaylor	ok, I'll call it then, good meeting everyone, thanks for participating !	17:55
sambetts	o/ bye	17:55
Watanabe_isao	:)	17:55
maurosr	great, bye!	17:55
cdearborn	c-ya	17:55
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liliars	thx guys, cya next weds, byee	17:56
Watanabe_isao	bye-bye!	17:56
krtaylor	#endmeeting	17:56
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings \|\| https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"		17:56
openstack	Meeting ended Wed Nov 11 17:56:17 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)	17:56
openstack	Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_qa/2015/ironic_qa.2015-11-11-17.00.html	17:56
openstack	Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_qa/2015/ironic_qa.2015-11-11-17.00.txt	17:56
openstack	Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_qa/2015/ironic_qa.2015-11-11-17.00.log.html	17:56
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notmyname	(gotta wait for the seconds hand to actually roll over)	20:59
notmyname	ok	21:00
notmyname	swift meeting time	21:00
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notmyname	#startmeeting swift	21:00
openstack	Meeting started Wed Nov 11 21:00:15 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	21:00
openstack	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.	21:00
notmyname	hello, everyone	21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"		21:00
openstack	The meeting name has been set to 'swift'	21:00
notmyname	who's here for the swift meeting?	21:00
wbhuber	o/	21:00
hurricanerix	\|o\|	21:00
minwoob_	o/	21:00
ho	hi	21:00
joeljwright	evening	21:00
kota_	hello	21:00
jrichli	o/	21:00
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clayg	heyoh!	21:00
torgomatic_	䷣	21:00
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notmyname	did I see acoles join?	21:00
* briancline collapses		21:00
peluse	yo	21:01
tdasilva	i am	21:01
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notmyname	all right	21:01
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notmyname	#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift	21:01
acoles	here	21:01
jrichli	acoles!	21:01
notmyname	several smaller things to go over this week, and maybe a couple of bit things	21:01
peluse	acoles: thought you were hanging someone?	21:01
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acoles	peluse: ran out of rope	21:02
tdasilva	lol	21:02
clayg	heh	21:02
notmyname	#topic PyECLib update	21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "PyECLib update (Meeting topic: swift)"		21:02
notmyname	going from the top...	21:02
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notmyname	tsg and clayg and I have been going over the pyeclib changes, with help from lifeless in -infra for global-requirements changes	21:03
notmyname	so here's the status	21:03
notmyname	(and why you care)	21:03
notmyname	there are a few goals	21:03
clayg	hint: you don't	21:03
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notmyname	aww	21:04
notmyname	first is to use later version of pyeclib	21:04
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notmyname	second is to drop any hard bundling with jerasure	21:04
clayg	new bugs better than old bugs - always	21:04
blmartin	awkward late hello	21:04
clayg	jerasure sux INAL	21:04
notmyname	third is to set it up to move into the openstack namespace so we have more of a community around landing patches	21:04
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clayg	openstack all the things!	21:05
peluse	openstack this!	21:05
notmyname	meh, in or out of the openstack namespace, it's good to have more people commit access and able to cut a release	21:05
notmyname	and openstack is a convenient place with the logistics already set up	21:05
peluse	agreed for sure	21:05
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notmyname	currently we're pinned to 1.0.7	21:06
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notmyname	and we've got a patch (landed yesterday) on master that lets us support >=1.0.7	21:06
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kota_	that's nice.	21:06
clayg	oh that landed!?	21:06
notmyname	so global-requirements has been bumped to >=1.0.7. next up is for us to land that to mirror g-r	21:07
notmyname	clayg: yeah, I think this morning	21:07
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notmyname	tsg: mentioned it an hour ago or so	21:07
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notmyname	so once we have the >=1.0.7 patch landed, we'll bump g-r to be >=1.1.1. then we'll bump swift to be >=1.1.1 and also drop the jerasure references	21:07
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clayg	notmyname: I don't think anything else goes in the >=1.0.7 change - we could start doc fixes in saio and example confs to remove jerasure references (asuming you're more on the > side of the >=1.0.7)	21:08
notmyname	the reason for the dance is because of how dependencies are tested in the gate and that we have to have our requirements file be an exact string match for global requirements	21:08
torgomatic_	basically https://lh3.ggpht.com/QL094vQpTcJHIxF5qVeURS-0-KpLq_ciDUzHnlYlOQ9GSO_Q98AO7b731jFG=w300	21:08
notmyname	clayg: yes	21:08
clayg	^ this the part you don't care about	21:08
notmyname	tsg: basically	21:08
notmyname	torgomatic_: basically	21:08
clayg	if you try to care you'll end up punching walls	21:08
notmyname	it's true. clayg did that yesterday when he started to care about it ;-)	21:09
peluse	who won?	21:09
notmyname	the boss man who said go get in a quieter room ;-)	21:09
notmyname	good times.	21:09
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clayg	torgomatic_: it's more like this -> http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Rude_05b797_2726116.gif	21:10
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clayg	and that's how dependencies get updated	21:10
notmyname	so I thinkw e should be able to get this done today or tomorrow	21:10
clayg	yay!	21:10
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clayg	notmyname: well someone needs to do the saio doc updates and scour the rest of the code for jerasure	21:10
notmyname	for everyone working on it, thanks for your patience	21:10
clayg	at a minimum we should get it claned out in the >=1.1.1 patch	21:11
peluse	rock on... saio docs need to include how to instal isa-l also....	21:11
notmyname	right. I think that's in tsg's 1.1.1 patch	21:11
clayg	*cleaned	21:11
peluse	is tsg doing that?	21:11
clayg	oh!	21:11
clayg	tsg: is a boss	21:11
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tsg	LOL	21:11
tsg	hopefully no one breaks neutron again!	21:11
tsg	(today or tomorrow that is :))	21:11
notmyname	clayg: go check this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/244287/	21:11
notmyname	tsg: where's your >=1.1.1 patch with the doc updates?	21:12
notmyname	and test updates?	21:12
tsg	notmyname: let me get it up there later today - hadn't posted it yet (with the slight change of plans yesterday)	21:12
notmyname	ok	21:13
notmyname	any more questions on pyeclib before we move on?	21:13
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tsg	notmyname: the test updates won't be needed anymore after clayg's recent patch	21:13
notmyname	right	21:13
tsg	notmyname: and we are keeping jerasure in the supported list, correct?	21:13
notmyname	jsut dropping jerasure from docs and unit/__init__.py	21:13
tsg	notmyname: ok	21:13
tsg	will do	21:13
tsg	I will ;)	21:14
notmyname	tsg: drop down to just liberasure. later we can readd jerasure and add isa-l	21:14
notmyname	if we want	21:14
clayg	tsg: I think when we say requires pyeclib>=1.1.1 we remove jerasure from the prefer list - a list of one is a good list	21:14
notmyname	ya	21:14
tsg	clayg: ok :)	21:14
notmyname	ok, moving on (lots to cover)	21:15
notmyname	#topic ring change	21:15
*** openstack changes topic to "ring change (Meeting topic: swift)"		21:15
clayg	whoa - notmyname is on a mission	21:15
notmyname	clayg has a good patch up	21:15
notmyname	patch 241571	21:15
patchbot	notmyname: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/241571/ - Put part-replicas where they go	21:15
notmyname	go review it and run your prod rings through ti!	21:15
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clayg	yeah! multiple part-replica placement on same device is bullshit!	21:15
notmyname	clayg: what do we need to do on it?	21:15
notmyname	what do we look for?	21:15
* clayg shrugs		21:15
* clayg shrugs		21:15
notmyname	clayg: you've still got a -2 on it	21:16
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clayg	notmyname: oh yeah i need to write words in the ring_overview	21:16
briancline	oh yeah. it's on my list for tonight to run our latest ring through it	21:16
clayg	I mean I don't need to - those words won't close the bug any faster - but I will cause folks thought that would be good	21:17
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notmyname	the first reason the ring stuff was updated was because sometimes you'd get more than one part placed in the exact same drive. that means that replicas lie about your durability and EC just flat-out breaks	21:17
notmyname	so clayg dived in to fix it and came up with this patch	21:17
clayg	notmyname: i fixed everything [1] else while i was in there!	21:17
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notmyname	which is a big change, but AFAIK much more tested and deterministic	21:17
clayg	1. not everything	21:17
notmyname	so the first concern is that it doesn't make all your existing clusters shuffle data everywhere. that would be bad	21:18
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notmyname	secondly, it needs to have a good plan going forward. ie is it supportable/tested code that makes sense	21:19
clayg	notmyname: yeah - it's acctually pretty agressive about fixing things - so if you give it an old ring from before overload that's all imbalanced it'll just move 50% of your parts around and be like "what?"	21:19
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notmyname	by "fixing" things you mean fixing the duplicate assignments	21:19
notmyname	?	21:19
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clayg	well either duplicates or like "bad" placements - with the replica_plan stuff you can dial into imbaance and dispersion if you can't have both	21:20
clayg	so I call "fixed" meaning how successfully it filled the replica_plan	21:20
notmyname	ok	21:20
clayg	the default replica_plan is "as dispersable as balanced"	21:20
clayg	then you add a bit of overload when things look stupid	21:20
clayg	or a bunch of overload if you're like super into 507's	21:20
clayg	the algo doesn't really care anymore	21:21
clayg	it says there's two poles you can fit anywhere in the middle	21:21
notmyname	dfg: nadeem: it would be great if you could look at the ring patch and put your rings through it	21:21
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dfg	notmyname: ya we're planning on it	21:21
nadeem	notmyname: sure	21:21
clayg	dfg: nadeem: I think all you'll get out of it is that it'll be like 10-15% slower - you're welcome	21:21
notmyname	clayg: you did a great job explaining all that in tokyo. do you have those slides linked somewhere?	21:21
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dfg	clayg: hey- i'm not the one who does that	21:22
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clayg	https://docs.google.com/a/swiftstack.com/presentation/d/1HdTyMAjpauoCNpwBMyNmv_11bimZScvpRTxI-e0Gmw4/edit?usp=sharing	21:22
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clayg	but like... I'm not sure it's as good with out my commentary	21:22
clayg	i'm like pretty funny	21:22
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notmyname	can other people see that link?	21:23
tdasilva	clayg: you are probably going to get a bunch of requests	21:23
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clayg	notmyname: i don't know how to computer?	21:23
ho	i sent it now :-)	21:23
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notmyname	I can work with clayg to get it publicly sharable	21:24
dfg	between all of us. we'll figure that out :p	21:24
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nadeem	:)	21:24
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tdasilva	please make sure to add clayg's commentaries ;)	21:24
notmyname	for everyone, please take a look at the patch. it's pretty important and promises a better way to do data placement in the cluster. and will take a while to review	21:24
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notmyname	ok, moving on	21:25
notmyname	#topic py3 patches	21:25
*** openstack changes topic to "py3 patches (Meeting topic: swift)"		21:25
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notmyname	there is now a Plan for the py3 port	21:25
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notmyname	it's nothing more complicated than (1) get a voting gate job and (2) add modules to it until we have everything tested on it	21:26
notmyname	so It hink that means we'll have a steady stream of "port XXX to py3" patches for a long time	21:26
notmyname	which is why someone suggested "hey, can we just agree that we can approve a py3 change with only one core +2?"	21:26
notmyname	so what do you think?	21:27
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notmyname	is anyone uncomfortable with that? acoles clayg peluse dfg torgomatic_ tdasilva?	21:28
torgomatic_	eh, I won't do it	21:28
briancline	seems reasonable.. the gates are more helpful than usual for this sort of thing	21:28
notmyname	won't do what? py3 reviews?	21:28
torgomatic_	I've never really ported anything to py3 before, so I won't solo-approve a py3 patch because I lack sufficient confidence to do so	21:28
peluse	wait, py what? ok, yeah sure	21:28
tdasilva	yeah, i'm not a big fan either (of one +2 +A)	21:28
peluse	seriously though, I don't understand. why propose just one +2?	21:29
acoles	notmyname: idk i'm not sure what these patches are going to look like	21:29
acoles	notmyname: maybe after the first N I/we might feel differently	21:29
notmyname	the thought was only to speed up the process	21:29
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notmyname	and it sounds like current thinking is that we should keep with 2 +2s	21:29
notmyname	I'm completely fine with that :-)	21:30
kota_	+1	21:30
peluse	oh geeze, I think there's probably a better way to speed it up. maybe assign some volunteers to review them. i dont think cutting to one +2 sounds right	21:30
notmyname	#agreed py3 patches aren't special. still needs 2 cores to approve	21:30
acoles	i'm with torgomatic_	21:30
peluse	kota, double meaning? heh	21:30
notmyname	ok, moving on	21:30
kota_	peluse: exactly, I'm with keep two +2	21:31
notmyname	#topic searchlight integration / oslo.messaging	21:31
*** openstack changes topic to "searchlight integration / oslo.messaging (Meeting topic: swift)"		21:31
notmyname	sjmc7: this is a topic you added to the agenda	21:31
sjmc7	hey. this one’s under my name ( i work on searchlight) but after a conversation with briancline yesterday	21:31
sjmc7	and as a followup to the presentation the IBM guys did at the summit	21:31
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sjmc7	the short version - to integrate swift with SL we need notifications and oslo messaging is how we’ve been doing it for other services	21:32
sjmc7	there’s a patch up on swift for zaqar based notifications - would there be any objection to an optional oslo.messaging notification middleware?	21:32
sjmc7	our alternative is something out of tree deployers could install	21:32
tdasilva	searchlight == metadata search ??	21:32
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sjmc7	ah, yes, sorry	21:33
sjmc7	yes, to back up a little - we’d love to index swift metadata for search	21:33
notmyname	sjmc7: with any dependency addition there's the question of what it also brings in transitively. and many oslo projects also tend to bring in others like config, logging, etc. and since we don't currently use those, it's been a barrier to "just drop it in"	21:33
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notmyname	but that being said, I'm find with evaluating it like any other dependency addition	21:34
briancline	yeah, this solves a few concerns i think we had from ibm/softlayer's perspective as well. my two biggest concerns are the auth issues (some mentioned in the review i think) and some scale concerns	21:34
torgomatic_	yeah, zaqar is nice because it's just like "POST here; you're done"	21:34
sjmc7	yes, i can certainly understand dependency concerns	21:34
torgomatic_	if I understand, oslo.messaging drags in AMQP, so now you need a messaging broker and you need to maintain the broker and blah blah blah	21:35
sjmc7	although keystonemiddleware already brings in most of oslo	21:35
torgomatic_	it's like "surprise! more infrastructure!"	21:35
briancline	it's pluggable -- amqp, zeromq, and i believe whatever backends kombu supports	21:35
sjmc7	yes - we’re not suggesting this would be enabled by default	21:35
hurricanerix	Is there any advantage to adding the middleware into Swift rather than just having it be it's own thing in Github somewhere?	21:36
notmyname	sjmc7: sure. and like keystone, it would be an optional dependency to bring in. ie not something every deployer must suddenly install to upgrade	21:36
sjmc7	right	21:36
briancline	torgomatic_: to be fair, zaqar is also a bit of infrastructure as well	21:36
torgomatic_	briancline: true	21:36
sjmc7	hurricanerix - that’s an option, certainly	21:36
dims	fyi, there's work ongoing to use oslo.messaging to send notifications to zaqar	21:36
briancline	orly?	21:36
sjmc7	the advantage of in-tree is that if the middleware structure changes it doesn’t get ignored	21:36
dims	briancline right. no rpc, no rabbitmq	21:36
notmyname	hurricanerix: not sure. but there's a lot of people doing metadata search, so having a common way upstream to feed that isn't a terrible idea	21:36
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dims	just notifications	21:37
briancline	yeah, seems a lot of folks have been interested in the search use case for a few years	21:37
briancline	there's also the use case of user-facing consumable notifications, which is what zaqar primarily serves	21:38
notmyname	briancline: yeah, and there's some pretty interesting use cases there too	21:38
sjmc7	there are other conversations about translating oslo.messaigng notifications into zaqar queues	21:38
sjmc7	horizon and heat are both interested in that	21:38
hurricanerix	notmyname: true, but it seems easier to let it be its own thing first, let it mature some and then if tons of people are using it, then look to add it in. (just my opinion though)	21:38
torgomatic_	there's a thing I wrote that might indirectly help with search; let me go find it	21:38
notmyname	many of us have wanted some sort of notification/message thing in swift for a while	21:38
torgomatic_	here we go https://review.openstack.org/212824	21:39
briancline	what was the other feature discussed in vancouver that could benefit from this? was it tiering? or something else?	21:39
torgomatic_	that would let you find unindexed objects in your cluster and go index them	21:39
torgomatic_	or, you know, whatever. that's kind of the point.	21:40
notmyname	briancline: tiering. container sync. utilization processing. probably others	21:40
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notmyname	torgomatic_: yeah, probably both would be needed, right?	21:40
dims	torgomatic_ briancline : if there's any interest in oslo.messaging for just notications and not using amqp/rabbit, you can ping us on #openstack-oslo	21:40
torgomatic_	notmyname: definitely. but just using a notifier on new PUTs misses a couple things	21:41
notmyname	right	21:41
torgomatic_	(a) if the other end is down, you miss objects	21:41
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torgomatic_	(b) you don't get notifications for existing objects (like if you add indexing to a cluster with data already in it)	21:41
sjmc7	a) is why using oslo is desirable	21:42
torgomatic_	hence the watcher thingy	21:42
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notmyname	so the original question is "are we ok with using oslo.messaging or not"	21:42
briancline	dims: excellent. i'll pop in soon	21:42
hurricanerix	personally oslo anything makes me nervous =)	21:42
dims	hurricanerix you should get to know us :) we don't bite	21:43
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sjmc7	we’re ok with this living out of tree, if that’s preferable	21:43
briancline	to be fair, using swift with keystone pulls in a lot of oslo deps anyway	21:43
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notmyname	sjmc7: it's a little hard for me to say at this point just because I'm not familiar with oslo.messaging	21:44
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sjmc7	ok. well, perhaps we’ll do something out of tree for now, and revisit this in the future	21:44
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notmyname	in general, I'm supportive of having basic hooks/functionality for people to build metadata searching for the stuff in swift	21:45
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sjmc7	i think the middleware would be very simple, so in that sense the hooks exist	21:45
notmyname	do you have an example we could look at?	21:46
sjmc7	for middleware?	21:46
hurricanerix	notmyname i'm not that familiar with how all the dependency stuff works. does having the middleware included mean that the middleware's deps get pulled in, even if you don't use it? or is there a way to have deps on a per middleware basis?	21:46
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hurricanerix	it would be nice if it were done on a per middleware basis, so if all you had was the most basic Swift install, you wouldn	21:46
notmyname	hurricanerix: dependencies are set for the whole project. there isn't currently a way to do dependencies for just one piece of middleware or optional stuff	21:47
hurricanerix	't need to install a bunch of extra stuff.	21:47
notmyname	sjmc7: yeah	21:47
hurricanerix	notmyname: yeah, that what I thought	21:47
notmyname	hurricanerix: right. so eg with keystone today, we have keystone middleware, but we don't have keystone in our requiremnts	21:47
sjmc7	every project emits notifications through different mechanisms	21:47
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briancline	i'd imagine it could work the same way that the optional keystoneauth middleware works now -- swift has that in-tree, but doesn't have hard dependencies on the keystonemiddleware package	21:47
briancline	what john said	21:47
sjmc7	but all through oslo.messaging, so i don’t have an example that’d be useful, but looking at existing swift MW it looks like it’d be quite simple	21:47
clayg	and depending on the dependency I think there's a good point to be made that it doesn't need to be in the upstream tree	21:47
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clayg	minimize dependencies is a thing	21:48
notmyname	clayg: right	21:48
clayg	and middleware packaged outside of swift is a thing too	21:48
sjmc7	ok, we can live with that. thanks for the discussion	21:48
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notmyname	sjmc7: thanks for bringing it up. I've very interested, personally, in searchlight, so please let us know what's going on there	21:48
clayg	if it was so needed and trivial to do right in middleware there'd already be dozens of these things implemented outside of swift and we could just pick the one we like the best to bring onto stackfordge or w/e	21:48
notmyname	gotta move on. 2 more things to bring up	21:49
notmyname	#topic -infra is dropping py26 testing	21:49
*** openstack changes topic to "-infra is dropping py26 testing (Meeting topic: swift)"		21:49
joeljwright	:(	21:49
notmyname	I just discovered this today on the ML in another thread	21:49
lifeless	its only been EOL for 2 years ;)	21:50
joeljwright	yeah, but centos 6 users are very stubborn	21:50
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notmyname	Re: [openstack-dev] [oslo][all] Oslo libraries dropping python 2.6	21:50
notmyname	compatability"	21:50
notmyname	topic is "	21:50
* dims waves again :)		21:50
notmyname	so yeah, we still support py26 in swiftclient	21:50
notmyname	that will get harder to do if we arent' running py26 tests	21:51
notmyname	oh, the -infra date in nov 19. so really soon	21:51
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clayg	dropping py26 from the gate is the same as not supporting py26 in practice	21:51
notmyname	so that raises the question of continuing py26 support and if so how to test it	21:51
notmyname	clayg: right	21:51
clayg	no one will bother to checkout changes and tox -e py26 them	21:51
notmyname	we could do some 3rd party CI	21:51
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clayg	notmyname: oh - that'd be fine	21:52
notmyname	but 3rd party CI doesnt' vote	21:52
clayg	notmyname: we could probably socialize it and work around bugs pretty quick if it slipped?	21:52
notmyname	unfortunately, I have zero idea how much py26 swiftclient is used	21:52
clayg	notmyname: anywa - i've been pretty happy with no py2.6 in swift	21:52
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clayg	notmyname: some folks have said that "well it matters more in the client" - but... no it doesn't	21:52
joeljwright	yeah, but no pu26 in swift is very different to no py26 for clients	21:53
notmyname	heh	21:53
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clayg	heh	21:53
clayg	joeljwright: HOW SO!? ;)	21:53
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joeljwright	there are loads of people using rhel6/centos6/scientific6	21:53
clayg	joeljwright: do you have some client machines that don't have a good way to get py2.6	21:53
joeljwright	all on my26	21:53
joeljwright	py26	21:53
clayg	rhel5 is probably py2.6 - but rhel6 - really?	21:53
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tdasilva	yep	21:53
joeljwright	I don't know about 'good'	21:54
joeljwright	the issue is all these systems are supported for years more	21:54
tdasilva	we are also still shipping RHGS in rhel6.5	21:54
tdasilva	yep	21:54
notmyname	tdasilva: RHGS?	21:54
clayg	and this is why we can't have nice things	21:54
tdasilva	Red Hat Gluster Storage	21:54
notmyname	ah	21:54
tdasilva	which ships with swift packages	21:54
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clayg	Python 2.7 was released on July 3rd, 2010	21:54
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notmyname	clayg: RHEL6 is supported until something like 2035	21:55
clayg	i say that like it was a long time ago but I don't really remember what year it is - 2016? do i have to vote next month?	21:55
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joeljwright	clayg: python 3.0 was released in 2008, but it's still not default...	21:55
timburke	notmyname: 2020 -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CentOS#End-of-support_schedule	21:55
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notmyname	so the reality is that someone that needs py26 needs to think very hard about some 3rd party py26 tests	21:55
notmyname	clayg: "you didn't blow away your entire deployment and install everything fresh from the very latest version?! wow."	21:56
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clayg	why is rhel6 py2.6	21:56
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notmyname	this week, especially joeljwright and tdasilva, please let's think on what we can do there. and raise it again next week	21:57
joeljwright	clayg: I honestly don't know :(	21:57
notmyname	(look at the time)	21:57
joeljwright	kk	21:57
tdasilva	k	21:57
notmyname	last thing, briefly	21:57
notmyname	#topic functional tests with testrepository	21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "functional tests with testrepository (Meeting topic: swift)"		21:57
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notmyname	patch 214206	21:57
patchbot	notmyname: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214206/ - Modify functional tests to use testr	21:57
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clayg	well I don't think we can support py2.6 for another 5 years?	21:57
notmyname	moves just functional tests to use testr. this is important for defcore, but it might also get us other cool stuff too	21:58
clayg	I already package py2.7 for rhel - so does epel and ius I'm sure	21:58
joeljwright	clayg: honestly, I'm not sure I want us to try :(	21:58
notmyname	please look over the patch and understand the small changes you'll see when you run functional tests	21:58
clayg	notmyname: skeptical of the other cool stuff	21:58
torgomatic_	if it might get us other cool stuff, I might +2 it ;)	21:58
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notmyname	clayg: recheck just failing tests, run a test until failure (eg for timing bugs), run tests concurrently	21:59
clayg	yawn - if it passes the gate and still runs my tests I'll adust - w/e	21:59
notmyname	heh, ok	21:59
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hurricanerix	clayg: I think the "cool stuff" is not having test duplication between Swift repo and Tempest. =)	21:59
briancline	+1	21:59
clayg	notmyname: idk, fancy stuff like that scares me - back in my day we used to run our tests by rubbing two asserts together with a stick	21:59
notmyname	hurricanerix: you'll be shocked to learn clayg doesn't really care about tempest ;-)	21:59
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acoles	clayg: lol	21:59
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clayg	hurricanerix: sorry not sorry	22:00
hurricanerix	notmyname: lol	22:00
notmyname	clayg: sorry, not trying to put words in your mouth	22:00
notmyname	unfortunately, we're out of time	22:00
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notmyname	thanks for helping move everything along quickly this week	22:00
hurricanerix	clayg: well I don't either, I see this as allowing me to continue to not care about it :)	22:00
clayg	hurricanerix: nice!	22:00
notmyname	looks like we have follow-ups about py26, maybe oslo.messaging at a later time	22:00
notmyname	thanks for working on swift!	22:01
notmyname	#endmeeting	22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings \|\| https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"		22:01
openstack	Meeting ended Wed Nov 11 22:01:09 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)	22:01
openstack	Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-11-11-21.00.html	22:01
openstack	Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-11-11-21.00.txt	22:01
openstack	Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-11-11-21.00.log.html	22:01
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ekcs	hello masahito	23:59
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