Wednesday, 2015-08-19

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JRobinson__Hello all, the APAC docs meeting is set to start in a few minutes,00:28
darrencthanks JRobinson__00:29
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JRobinson__np darrenc00:29
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asettlethanks jr00:31
asettleJRobinson__, *00:31
Sam-I-Amyo00:31
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bmosshi everybody00:31
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loquacitieshello everyone!00:32
dnavalehello00:32
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loquacities#startmeeting docteam00:32
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 19 00:32:15 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.00:32
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:32
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)"00:32
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'00:32
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loquacitiesroll call!00:32
Sam-I-Amyo00:32
sicarieo/00:32
katomoo/00:32
bmosshowdy00:32
darrenchi!00:32
dnavalehi00:32
JRobinson__JRobinson__, morning o/00:32
loquacitieshi everyone, great to see you all :)00:32
loquacitiesthis should be a pretty speedy meeting, i think00:32
loquacities#topic Action items from the last meeting00:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)"00:33
loquacitiesthe only one i can see is one for andreas, who isn't here00:33
loquacitiesso let's move on00:33
loquacities#topic Liberty specs in review #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/docs-specs,n,z00:33
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loquacitiesthere's only one outstanding, which is the third party drivers one:00:34
loquacities#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191041/ (Third Party driver docs - still up for discussion)00:34
Sam-I-Amyeah, that one...00:34
loquacitiesin related news, the new API one got merged this morning:00:34
loquacities#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209669/ (API Docs, merged)00:34
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loquacitiesSam-I-Am: are you going to do another patchset on the driver docs one?00:34
Sam-I-Ami... maybe?00:35
loquacities:)00:35
Sam-I-Ami havent been keeping track given all the other 'issues'00:35
loquacitiesi think we have some kind of violent agreement now00:35
loquacitiesi can do a patchset if you want00:35
Sam-I-Amthat would be nice00:35
loquacitiesok00:35
* loquacities adds it to her list00:36
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loquacitiesok, that's it for specs?00:36
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loquacitieslet's move on to speciality teams00:36
loquacities#topic Speciality teams: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/SpecialityTeams00:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Speciality teams: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/SpecialityTeams (Meeting topic: docteam)"00:36
amandapo/00:36
loquacitieshiya amandap00:36
loquacities#info HA Guide - RST migration complete, need help with updating content.00:37
amandaploquacities: Hiya :)00:37
loquacitiesi've pinged the HA guide team to ask how they're going with publishing the RST guide, but haven't heard back yet00:37
loquacitiesany HA people lurking?00:37
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loquacitiesi'll take that as a no00:37
loquacities#info Install Guides - RST migration complete, testing for Liberty starting soon.00:37
loquacities#info Networking Guide - Test & review for Liberty updates.00:38
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: any update on networking?00:38
Sam-I-Amyeah00:38
loquacitieshit us00:38
Sam-I-Ammore or less updated all of the scenarios, except for that patch that was merged too early00:38
loquacities*sigh*00:39
Sam-I-Amgetting assaf muller to look at it, and then i'll update the linuxbridge version00:39
loquacitiescool00:39
Sam-I-Amthen we're done with those... i think00:39
loquacitiesyay!00:39
Sam-I-Amand00:39
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Sam-I-Amthere's also a push to get more involvement in the underlying cloud networking knowledge00:39
Sam-I-Amwe need more bodies00:39
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asettle"Bodies" because nobody comes out alive?!00:40
Sam-I-Amyes00:40
Sam-I-Amthere's a big gap in content now00:40
asettleGreat.00:40
Sam-I-Amthe scenarios are good, but not good if you have no clue whats going on with virtual networking00:40
Sam-I-Amwith everything else going on, it took me a couple months just for the scenario updates in kilo00:40
Sam-I-Amnow we're getting back to the install guide00:41
Sam-I-Amso...00:41
Sam-I-Ambodies00:41
loquacitiesyeah, it's a constant problem00:41
Sam-I-Amsame with the install guide, really00:41
Sam-I-Amor docs in general00:41
loquacitiesmaybe we should stake out upstream university to catch the fresh meat? ;)00:41
loquacitiesi can highly recommend having docs mentors at that, actually00:41
asettleWow. They're not salmon.00:41
loquacitieswe ended up with about three new docs ATCs from Vancouver00:42
asettleAhhhh actually, are they?00:42
loquacitiesat least two are still around and actively contributing00:42
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Sam-I-Ambetter work on scaring them away too :)00:42
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loquacitiesis anyone planning on attending that in tokyo?00:42
katomoy00:43
loquacitieskatomo: yay!00:43
loquacitiesas mentor?00:43
katomoyes, as mentor00:43
loquacitiesthat's great news :)00:43
loquacitiessadly, i can't make it this time00:43
katomonp00:44
loquacitiesanyway, let's move on00:44
loquacities#info Security Guide - RST conversion complete, and live.00:44
sicarieYay00:44
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loquacitiesgo check it out, it's all shiny now :)00:44
loquacities#info User Guides - Cloud Admin Guide RST migration complete, work starting on reorganisation.00:44
loquacitiesJRobinson__: any update on the user guides?00:44
JRobinson__Yes definitely -00:44
JRobinson__as mentioned in the most recent newsletter, all the content is now converted \o/00:45
loquacities\o/00:45
amandap\o/00:45
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loquacitiesclose to publication, too?00:45
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bmossJRobinson__, was there a resolution to those auto generated files?00:46
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JRobinson__common files attached to the guide are also now converted00:46
loquacitiesyay00:46
JRobinson__bmoss, there was a brief discussion on the mailing list00:46
bmossI think those two files are the final blocker to publication00:47
JRobinson__#info the decision regarding auto generated files in .rst conversions - specifically the nove-livemigrations and nova-zookeeper in the cloud admin guide - is to link to the content rather than include them.00:47
bmossperfect. Let's publish then!00:47
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JRobinson__that was the next step :) I believe there are instructions on the Migrations page of the wiki. I'll  check on those.00:48
loquacitiescool beans00:48
JRobinson__s/was/is00:48
loquacitieslet's move on then00:48
loquacities#info Ops/Arch Guides - Arch Guide swarm was a success. Plans for reorganisation in Mitaka.00:48
loquacitieswe'll come back to the swarm, but i know darrenc has spoken to shilla about the mitaka plans, and we can address that in more detail at sumit00:48
loquacitiessummit*00:49
darrencsounds good00:49
loquacitiesdarrenc: did you want to add to that?00:49
darrencI was planning to draft specs for rst conversion and the reorg00:49
loquacitiesgood plan00:49
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loquacitiesi'll need to do a cleanup of all the liberty blueprints and specs in the coming weeks, too00:50
loquacitiesok, moving on00:50
loquacities#info API docs - New API tool afoot. Python devs required! Contact Anne.00:50
loquacitiesif you are a python dev (or you know someone who might be interested), please contact anne00:50
loquacities#info Config Ref - Contact Guavain #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/ConfigRef00:50
loquacities#info Training Labs - Contact Pranav Salunke00:51
loquacitiesyou'll notice we now have training labs as a speciality team00:51
bmoss\o/00:51
loquacitieswe've split labs out away from the other training guides, trying to maintain the momentum there00:51
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loquacitiesok, that's all from me on speciality teams ... any other comments before we move on?00:52
asettleLGTM00:52
sicarieYes00:52
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sicarieThe security guide book is still on 1.000:52
loquacitiessicarie: sorry, i missed you earlier on the security guide!00:52
loquacitiesgo right ahead :)00:52
sicarieNo worries00:52
sicarieThe process to push a new physical book is through the pdf, correct?00:53
loquacitiesyeah, PDF then lulu00:53
sicarieWe just send it over when were happy with the content?00:53
loquacitieswe do also need to work out how to do with RST00:53
loquacitiesyep00:53
sicarieGreat, we will be doing that before Tokyo00:53
loquacitiesawesome00:53
sicarieAs the 1.0 is.... dated00:53
loquacitiesi looks forward to seeing this process in action! :)00:53
loquacitieslook*00:54
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loquacitieslulu is still very much a black box to me, so i'll learn as we go00:54
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loquacitiesok, let's move on then ...00:55
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loquacities#topic Countdown to Liberty00:55
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loquacities#info 56 Days! #link http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20151015T00&p0=1440&msg=OpenStack+Liberty+Launch+Date&font=hand00:55
loquacitiesregarding visas for tokyo: if you need one, you need to be organising that *now*00:56
Sam-I-Amaight, i'm out00:56
loquacitiescya Sam-I-Am00:56
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loquacitiesis there anyone with questions about visa requirements?00:56
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loquacitiesright, ok00:56
loquacitiesthe other topic i wanted to mention here was ATC passes00:57
loquacitiesif anyone thinks they should have an ATC pass and they haven't got one, please let me know on email00:57
katomook00:57
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loquacitiesany other questions on summit stuff?00:57
asettleUhh not at this moment.00:58
loquacitiesgreat, let's move on00:58
loquacities#topic APAC Meetups00:58
*** openstack changes topic to "APAC Meetups (Meeting topic: docteam)"00:58
loquacitiesfinal entry here, just to say a huge thanks to suyog, bmoss, asettle and everyone else who helped out on the swarm00:58
loquacitiesand a massive thanks to everyone who came along, created patches, and helped merge them00:59
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loquacitiesi had a blast, i hope you all did too :)00:59
bmossit was great, and we accomplished tonnes.00:59
loquacities:D00:59
bmossI'd love to see a swarm here every 6 months00:59
loquacitiesooh, stepping it up ;)00:59
loquacitieswe could do it as a mini mid-cycle ;)01:00
bmossthat would be cool01:00
loquacitiestoo true01:00
JRobinson__yes, sounds great :)01:00
loquacitiesok, finally we have some spotlight bugs:01:00
loquacities#topic Spotlight bugs:01:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Spotlight bugs: (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:00
loquacities#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1257018 VPNaaS isn't documented in cloud admin01:00
openstackLaunchpad bug 1257018 in openstack-manuals "VPNaaS isn't documented in cloud admin" [Medium,Confirmed]01:00
loquacities#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1257656 VMware: add support for VM diagnostics01:00
openstackLaunchpad bug 1257656 in openstack-manuals " VMware: add support for VM diagnostics" [Medium,Confirmed]01:00
loquacities#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1261969 Document nova server package01:00
openstackLaunchpad bug 1261969 in openstack-manuals "Document nova server package (WAS: Enable remote debugging for nova)" [Low,Confirmed]01:00
loquacitiesi'll issue some new spotlight bugs in the newsletter this week01:01
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asettleThanks :)01:01
loquacities#topic Open discussion01:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:01
loquacitiesok, anything i missed?01:01
katomomay be none01:02
loquacitiesapparently not01:02
loquacitiesright, i'll let you all have 28 minutes back01:02
loquacitiesthanks for coming everyone :)01:02
loquacities#endmeeting01:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"01:02
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 19 01:02:57 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)01:02
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-08-19-00.32.html01:03
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-08-19-00.32.txt01:03
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-08-19-00.32.log.html01:03
amandapThanks loquacities :)01:03
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katomothanks all :)01:03
darrencthanks!01:03
loquacitieso/01:03
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JRobinson__o/01:05
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Jeffrey4l_help06:57
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stevebaker#startmeeting heat07:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 19 07:00:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.07:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.07:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"07:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'07:00
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stevebakerhi all07:00
KanagarajM__hi07:00
asalkeldo/07:00
ramishrahi07:00
stevebaker#topic rollcall07:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"07:00
Dragohello!07:00
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stevebaker#chair asalkeld07:01
openstackCurrent chairs: asalkeld stevebaker07:01
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asalkeldwaaat07:01
stevebakerasalkeld: just in case my pub net connection dies :)07:01
asalkeld;)07:01
asalkeldok07:01
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stevebaker#topic adding items to the agenda07:01
*** openstack changes topic to "adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"07:01
skraynevhey07:01
stevebaker#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282015-08-20_0700_UTC.2907:02
stevebakeranyone for any thing?07:02
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pas-hao/07:02
stevebakerpas-ha: hi07:02
dgonzalezhi07:03
asalkeldyou got my topic in there already07:03
prazumovskyhi07:03
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shardyo/07:03
stevebakershardy: hey!07:03
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asalkeldstevebaker: we could add a topic for 202 return codes07:03
stevebaker#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282015-08-20_0700_UTC.2907:03
shardystevebaker: Hi!  Sorry, slightly late!07:03
stevebakerdone07:04
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Qimingo/07:04
stevebaker#topic heat reviews https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-reviews07:04
*** openstack changes topic to "heat reviews https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-reviews (Meeting topic: heat)"07:04
stevebakerQiming: hey07:04
stevebakerI've already purged merged things, so feel free to add anything *you* think is important07:05
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asalkeld"convergence scenario tests" needs rebasing07:05
_tiantianhi07:05
asalkeldthat would be good to get in07:05
stevebaker_tiantian: hi07:06
skraynevtiantian: hi07:06
stevebakerI saw a bunch of zaneb rg changes, but I have no idea how they relate to ramishra's07:06
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* asalkeld not sure either07:07
skraynevstevebaker:As I understand it's alternative approach07:07
stevebakeroh, great ;)07:07
skraynevlooks like Zane wait feedback from Rabi07:07
ramishrayeah. zaneb thinks it's a terrible idea to follow RG approach for ASG07:07
skraynevand after that they will choose one07:08
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ramishraand thinks RG resource itself is not good07:09
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pas-haramishra, make a "non-scaling" ASG?07:09
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ramishraI need some more opinions. I'm willing to stash my work, if more of us think it's a bad idea07:09
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stevebakeralright, I've put both series on the etherpad07:10
pas-hano need of immediate stashing, we have to compare both, have silly or not arguments and then decide :)07:10
stevebakerramishra: it could be a proper meeting topic if you were both awake at the same time07:11
skraynevpas-ha: do you mean review both without testing :) or review and tests both ?07:12
stevebaker#topic dogfooding convergence https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-convergence-tasks07:12
*** openstack changes topic to "dogfooding convergence https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-convergence-tasks (Meeting topic: heat)"07:12
stevebakerasalkeld: do you want to take this topic?07:12
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asalkeldok07:12
ramishrasure07:12
asalkeldso i want to make sure we are thinking of testing convergence07:12
asalkeldwe can do semi formal testing, but it would be great if all devs are now switching over to convergence07:13
asalkeldso we can find bugs sooner rather than later07:13
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shardyDo all the existing functional tests work OK?07:14
stevebakeryes, I think we're almost ready to encourage devs to run convergence locally for their regular work07:14
asalkeldjust set "convergence_eningine=True" in heat.conf07:14
stevebakerand file bugs as they find them07:14
asalkeldshardy: yes07:14
shardyasalkeld: nice! :)07:14
asalkeldthere is one bug07:14
asalkeldthat sometimes we get a timeout07:14
asalkeldhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/148628107:15
openstackLaunchpad bug 1486281 in heat "convergence functional tests sometimes timeout" [Undecided,New]07:15
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stevebakerlike this https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/148394607:15
openstackLaunchpad bug 1483946 in heat "Convergence: self.properties not populated in for handle_delete" [Medium,Confirmed] - Assigned to Rico Lin (rico-lin)07:15
therveIt's be interesting to ask tripleo to use it07:15
therveIt will certainly uncover some bugs07:15
asalkeldtherve: see https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-convergence-tasks07:15
asalkeldjust trying to think what we need to do re: testing07:15
shardytherve: yeah, I can try turning it on in devtest07:15
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stevebakertherve: we could always have a change which switches over by default and look at how the tripleo gate handles it07:16
asalkeldeveryone feel free to add to that etherpad07:16
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shardyAlthough atm TripleO has heat pinned as current master has broken, so we need to work that out first07:16
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asalkeldwe should also define a set of rally tests we want to run07:16
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skraynevasalkeld: IMo it's mostly depends on template07:17
asalkeld(not in the gate, but when deciding when to switch to default convergence)07:17
skraynevcurrently rally covers common commands like create, delete, etc..07:17
stevebakerskraynev: behaviour under load would be interesting to know too07:17
therveshardy, Wasn't the issue with ec2 auth?07:17
stevebakerfor different definitions of "load"07:17
asalkeldskraynev: yea - but also the scale (numbers of resources and number of heat-engines)07:17
shardytherve: no, unfortunately I think there's some other issue as well07:18
therveArg07:18
shardyderekh is investigating07:18
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asalkeldstevebaker: that's all from me, at this point getting devs to use it would be a good thing07:18
asalkeldwe can work on serious testing in parallel07:19
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stevebakerasalkeld: yep, +1. I will whenever the lack of bugs let me07:19
asalkeld:-O07:19
skraynevtherve: btw, looks like your patch for replacing v2 on v3 fixed rally issue, which I mentioned yesterday :)07:19
stevebakerasalkeld: meant in a nice way :)07:19
therveskraynev, OK cool07:19
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stevebaker#topic discuss https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/147568507:20
*** openstack changes topic to "discuss https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1475685 (Meeting topic: heat)"07:20
openstackLaunchpad bug 1475685 in heat "test_asg_notifications failed on gates" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Rabi Mishra (rabi)07:20
stevebakerdiscuss!07:20
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therveYeah this one is a bummer07:20
stevebakerthat hit me today, I thought it was my patch07:20
ramishraI'm not able to reproduce it locally at all07:20
asalkeldlovely07:20
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stevebakerdoes this test go through ceilometer?07:21
asalkeldmaybe add "log" notifications too07:21
asalkeldto see if we also get those07:21
asalkeldat least we can check the logs for that07:21
asalkeldnotification_driver=messaging,log07:21
ramishrayeah. we can do that07:22
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asalkeldstevebaker: that is a possible issue07:22
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asalkeldwhat if ceilometer pops the notification first07:22
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asalkeldwill that prevent our test reciever getting it?07:22
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asalkelddoes ceilometer re-transmit the notifcation?07:23
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asalkeld(if it does get it)07:23
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therveI don't think it does?07:23
therveYou can register several consumer for notifications though I believe07:23
asalkeldin which case that is the likely issue07:23
stevebakerit would be nice if ceilometer didn't get involved at all, since its a functional test07:24
ramishrathere is nothing to do with ceilometer, as I understand07:24
asalkeldwe could turn this into an alarm07:24
skraynevI thought, that our test use another queue for testing notification and ceilometer should not affect it07:24
* pas-ha was biumped.. and back again07:24
therveIt's worth investigating if something doesn't consume it anyway07:25
stevebakerhow often is it happening?07:25
asalkeldyip, maybe add to that bug07:25
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thervestevebaker, logstash seems down, but I'd say 5-10% at least07:26
stevebakerug07:26
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asalkeldhttps://github.com/openstack/heat/blob/master/heat_integrationtests/functional/test_notifications.py#L12907:26
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pas-hastevebaker, not too often, and quite without pattern, rechecks usually help07:26
asalkeldthat looks like "notifcations"07:26
* stevebaker rechecks07:27
stevebaker#topic 202 return codes07:27
*** openstack changes topic to "202 return codes (Meeting topic: heat)"07:27
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asalkeldok so there is a bug that we return the wrong stuff07:28
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asalkeld(200 instead of 220)07:28
asalkeld(200 instead of 202)07:28
shardyhttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/Blueprints/V2API07:28
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shardyIt's on the wishlist for v2, I don't see how we can fix it without a version bump07:28
shardyis it a new bug?07:28
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shardypretty sure there's an old one too07:28
asalkeldso i have patch for this, some of it *should* be ok, but the stack stuff should not change07:29
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asalkeldbug 147710907:29
openstackbug 1477109 in heat "Normal response codes of "Suspend stack" should be 200" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1477109 - Assigned to Angus Salkeld (asalkeld)07:29
stevebakermaybe we should leave the current behaviour just in case someone is checking the exact 20x code07:30
stevebakerand add it to the list of things to do for v207:30
asalkeldstevebaker: feel free to -2 those patches07:30
shardyI think we have to, unfortunately, as there are non heatclient users of the API07:30
asalkeldi can add something to that bug07:30
stevebakerI believe return code changing patches have landed in the past in nova07:30
asalkeldwe *could* change the actions07:31
asalkeld(maybe less checked)07:31
asalkeldbut i am not stressed if that series is -2'd)07:31
stevebakerasalkeld: I could maybe summon enthusiasm for a -107:31
asalkeldanyways, just highlighting the issue07:32
stevebakerlets discuss on the review07:32
asalkeldsure07:32
stevebaker#topic open discussion07:32
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"07:32
prazumovskyI have one suggestion07:32
prazumovskyRecently I used dics with resource page07:32
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* stevebaker blushes07:33
prazumovskyAnd it was a bit confusing to search from long list of priperties required props07:33
asalkeldlol07:33
shardyGot to run folks, ttyl07:33
asalkeldlater shardy07:33
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stevebakerprazumovsky: could you elaborate a bit?07:33
pas-hawe should have better inner-links for resources docs, down to the property level07:34
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prazumovskySo have an idea to separate all properties to two subparagraphs: required and optional. Your responce?07:34
pas-haprazumovsky, nice one07:35
asalkeldprazumovsky: seems ok07:35
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asalkeldbut is that the most important attribute?07:35
asalkeldwhat about replace/inplace07:36
stevebakerprazumovsky: I see, yes grouping properties would be good. I don't know if the deprecated ones are grouped last yet too07:36
pas-haI would also suggest to make it happen on a resource-type-show07:36
asalkeldand colour code them too;)07:36
pas-hayay!07:36
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stevebakersteady on07:37
prazumovskyMaybe deprecated should be as supported props and should not have separate subparagraph07:38
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stevebakerpas-ha: I am *constantly* linking people to a resource when I want to link them to a property07:38
pas-haexactly that07:38
asalkeldyeah07:38
pas-haa least ad those permalinks to properties07:39
stevebakerI assume it will explode the contents list, but whatever07:39
stevebakerpas-ha: could you raise a bug so we remember?07:39
pas-haI think we might be able to control the depth of the TOC07:39
pas-haok, action taken07:39
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stevebakershall we finish?07:40
asalkeldyes!07:40
prazumovskyyes07:40
pas-ha+107:40
stevebaker#endmeeting07:41
* asalkeld making kids supper07:41
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"07:41
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 19 07:41:00 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)07:41
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stevebakerdoneburgers07:41
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-08-19-07.00.html07:41
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-08-19-07.00.txt07:41
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-08-19-07.00.log.html07:41
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stevebakerlater all07:41
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Zaracome one, come all, for the absolutely incredible storyboard meeting!15:02
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Zarathere may be fire juggling!15:03
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SotKo/15:04
Zarasee I think that was fire juggling15:04
Zaraany other worthy companions on this fine August afternoon?15:04
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Zaraany *un*worthy companions for the storyboard meeting? we're not choosey.15:06
SotKhaha15:07
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ZaraI have a pair of sunglasses on my desk; I may have to count them as a third contributor.15:08
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SotKWould you like to chair this week, or shall I?15:09
ZaraI'd rather you did it but I can if you want (that's my default response, please say if you feel like you're doing it too much)15:10
SotKOK then,15:10
SotK#startmeeting storyboard15:10
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 19 15:10:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SotK. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:10
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:10
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:10
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'15:10
SotK#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StoryBoard Agenda15:10
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SotKOnce again there aren't any announcements15:11
SotK#topic Urgent Items15:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Urgent Items (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:11
SotKAre there any urgent items that aren't on the agenda?15:11
ZaraI don't think so.15:12
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SotKI don't know of any either, since pdar is planning to do some reviews for us I think!15:13
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ZaraI think we urgently need a party to celebrate pdar getting everything working.15:13
Zarabut not everyone will count that as 'urgent'15:13
SotK:D15:13
SotK#topic In-Progress Work15:13
*** openstack changes topic to "In-Progress Work (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:13
SotK#info SotK is looking at worklists and boards15:13
SotK#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/202989/ Spec15:13
SotKThe spec got some review comments, I've replied to them and will update the spec later.15:13
SotKI've sent a couple of patches related to this work now, since I was assuming there wouldn't be huge changes required to the spec.15:13
SotK#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/storyboard+branch:master+topic:worklists,n,z Worklists patches15:13
Zara:D15:14
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ZaraI'm continuing with subscriptions work for now15:14
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Zaraactually making progress this week, albeit at snail's pace15:14
SotK#info Zara is continuing with the subscriptions work15:14
SotKwoo :D15:14
Zaraam a bit embarrassed at how long it's taking but I guess it means I'm learning a lot :)15:14
SotKlearning is always good15:15
Zaraand pdar mentioned some patches to the docs re: setup with vagrant, so maybe that should also be on the list here15:16
SotKgood point15:16
SotK#info pdar is working on patches to the docs re: setup with vagrant15:16
Zara:) think that's all15:17
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SotKI think the goal of that is for `vagrant up` to give you a working StoryBoard instance right?15:17
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Zarathat sounds right to me, though you'd have to check with him for the details15:18
Zarahaven't used it so I skimmed the specifics a bit.15:18
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* SotK hopes that is the goal, so the next person doesn't get in a long battle with it like pdar has had to :)15:19
SotKI guess we can move on now15:20
SotK#topic Open Discussion15:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:20
SotKAnyone have anything they want to discuss about StoryBoard?15:20
Zara\o/ I'm glad we have a new contributor \o/15:21
ZaraI hope it's a trend15:21
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* SotK has fingers crossed for that too15:21
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SotKIf there is nothing else to discuss, I'll end the meeting shortly...15:22
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ZaraI can't think of anything off the top of my head. would probably just come up in the channel anyway15:22
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SotK515:22
SotK415:22
SotK315:22
SotK215:22
SotK115:22
SotK#endmeeting15:22
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:22
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 19 15:22:50 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:22
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-08-19-15.10.html15:22
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-08-19-15.10.txt15:22
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2015/storyboard.2015-08-19-15.10.log.html15:22
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Zarawhat a wonderful meeting!15:23
Zarathank you, SotK :D15:24
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DuncanTCinder meeting today?16:00
jungleboyjShort Agenda it looks like.16:00
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cebruns_Hello16:01
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smcginnisI'm not starting it. :)16:01
geguileoThat's a really short agenda16:01
diablo_rojoGo sean go!16:01
hemnamornin16:02
jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:02
smcginnisEl diablo!16:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 19 16:02:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:02
Swansonhi16:02
xyang2hi16:02
geguileoHi16:02
ericksonsantoshi16:02
smcginniso/16:02
jungleboyjHello all.16:02
dannywilsonhi16:02
jseiler__HI16:02
eharneyhi16:02
scottdahey16:02
thangpo/16:02
jgregor1Hello16:02
patrickeasthi16:02
jgriffithxyang2: around?16:02
schwickehi16:02
xyang2yes16:02
diablo_rojohello16:02
jungleboyjsmcginnis: Saved by the bell.16:02
jgriffith#topic Non-disruptive backups16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Non-disruptive backups (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:02
schwicke(I'm new here)16:02
xyang2https://review.openstack.org/#/c/204232/16:02
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xyang2this is the CLI patch for non-disruptive backup16:03
jgriffithwelcome schwicke16:03
xyang2There's a review comment regarding the force flag16:03
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jungleboyjWelcome schwicke !16:03
xyang2used for backup in-use volume16:03
geguileoschwicke: Welcome16:03
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xyang2So this flag was added when the first server side patch was reviewed.16:04
jgriffithxyang2: I'd agree WRT to the flag name16:04
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jgriffithxyang2: can we change it?16:04
xyang2Also I see that snapshot a in-use volume uses the same force flag16:04
DuncanT--force is already used in snapshot, with identical semantics16:04
xyang2should we be consistent16:04
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eharney--force for snapshots is a terrible wart IMO16:04
DuncanT+1 on consistency16:04
xyang2DuncanT +116:04
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jgriffithxyang2: DuncanT eharney can we just move forward with force then, deprecate it and fix *all* of them in M?16:05
tbarronhi16:05
DuncanTjgriffith: +116:05
xyang2jgriffith: fine with that16:05
eharneyi don't have a problem with force in the API (at least not a big problem)16:05
smcginnisjgriffith: +116:05
hemnaso, doesn't this require the volume to be multi-attached to be able to backup (mount) an in-use volume ?16:05
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eharneyi'm just pointing out that i don't think that this is the interface we really want at the client16:05
jgriffitheharney: LOL16:05
DuncanThemna: No, it uses a snapshot16:05
geguileoeharney: +116:05
xyang2hemna: no requirement on multiattach16:05
tbarroneharney: +1, we really over-use that word16:05
geguileoxyang2: What happens if the client always sends force=True?16:06
DuncanTeharney: I'm fine with a patch now that fixed both snap and backup, leaving --force as a depricated option in the client... I'm not ok with inconsistency16:06
geguileoxyang2: Will it work for available volumes?16:06
xyang2geguileo: no problem, it will back it up16:06
jgriffitheharney: geguileo I see your point except that it is true we use this terminology *everywhere* for similar things16:06
hemnaxyang2, so it snaps, then mounts a volume from the snap to do the backup? then nukes the volume from the snap and the snap?16:06
xyang2geguileo: yes16:06
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geguileoxyang2: eharney Then client just has to always send force=True16:06
DuncanThemna: Yes16:06
eharneyDuncanT: i'm not convinced an option is actually needed for backup16:06
hemnaDuncanT, ok, then yah, why do we even need a --force then?16:06
DuncanThemna: There's patches in progress that fast-path it where possible16:06
xyang2geguileo: if it is in-use only16:07
geguileoeharney: And that should resolve the issue, right?16:07
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jgriffitheharney: ahh... you're proposing just make it the default16:07
eharneygeguileo: that, or retry w/ force based on an error16:07
eharneyjgriffith: not necessarily, but maybe16:07
guitarzanhemna: because snapshotting in use data is "at your own risk"16:07
geguileojgriffith: I hve no problem with force on the API, it's the client part16:07
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DuncanTeharney: Consistency with snap is my argument16:07
geguileojgriffith: That the user needs to try to backup and the add --force16:07
geguileojgriffith: It should be automatic16:07
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eharneyDuncanT: i don't like that argument because requiring force for snapshots in the common case has stuck out to me as something that's really annoying for years now16:07
DuncanTgeguileo: Offline backup and online backup are different16:07
xyang2geguileo: how can you use it in api without adding to client?16:07
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eharneyDuncanT: but i understand what you're saying16:08
jgriffithgeguileo: well, the client is what I'm discussing here16:08
geguileoxyang2: I'm explaining it wrong16:08
DuncanTgeguileo: Change the default, and scripts that currently assume they will fail on an online volume will now behave differently16:08
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geguileoxyang2: If force=True works with an available volume as well as with an in-use volume16:08
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geguileoxyang2: Client just needs to send it always to True by default16:08
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DuncanTeharney: I don't at all object to a clean up, but it should be done consistently16:09
geguileoxyang2: That way client user don't need to worry about volume status16:09
jgriffithgeguileo: I think that's what I just said and you mentioned something about "I don't care about the Api"16:09
DuncanTgeguileo: See above - the may break existing code16:09
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eharneyDuncanT: i'm hoping to avoid making it more messy in the first place16:09
xyang2geguileo: I don't understand that.  snapshot needs the same thing in client16:09
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jgriffithDuncanT: I'm not sure I buy the "break" existing code16:10
DuncanTeharney: Fix up snap in the same patch for all I care, just don't release a library where the un-depricated option is --force for one and something else for another16:10
eharneythe usability for snapshot in the client is not a good example16:10
jgriffithDuncanT: if we make it work in more cases than it used to that seems like a win to me16:10
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DuncanTjgriffith: Loop over all volumes calling backup for all of them, expecting only the detached ones to backup. People absolutely write code like that16:10
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jgriffithDuncanT: I don't know that I envision people saying "Hey... you allow online backups now, before you didn't... I'm pissed"16:11
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jgriffithDuncanT: seems like poor code.. but ok16:11
DuncanTjgriffith: Far from the worst ccode out there, I promise16:11
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jgriffithDuncanT: I'm just saying that's what happens when you release new functionatlity16:11
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jgriffithDuncanT: so document it and say, "change your scripts to check status rather than relying on an exception"16:12
jgriffithif they can't figure that out on their own16:12
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geguileoDuncanT: It's a good point, it has to be backward compatible  :-(16:12
jgriffithBut anyway... is this really that big of a wart?16:12
DuncanTjgriffith: It's a support headache, and a library API break - with semantic verisoning you'd need a new major number16:13
jgriffithgeguileo: it IS backward compatible!!!16:13
jgriffiththis isn't a matter of compatibility of API change16:13
jgriffithBut regardless16:13
geguileojgriffith: If we do it with --force yes16:13
DuncanTjgriffith: No, it is NOT backwards compatiable16:13
jgriffithOMG16:13
geguileojgriffith: If we do how I wanted to do it NO  XD16:13
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jgriffithOk... back to the question; can we just live with the force flag then?16:13
guitarzanyou can't just autoforce snapshots/live backups16:13
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DuncanTjgriffith: Backwards compatability includes negative cases too16:13
guitarzanteh client has to specify it16:13
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guitarzanotherwise we'll just mess up everyone's data16:13
geguileojgriffith: Yes, I think we can/must/have to16:13
eharneyone relevant point about what we do with this for now is how people will feel about someone working on this as an enhancement later16:14
thingeeo/16:14
jgriffithguitarzan: no DuncanT and geguileo propose that is breaking backward compat16:14
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erlonhi16:14
* thingee is present at openstack operators sprint16:14
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guitarzanjgriffith: right, I'm not asking, I'm saying --force *has* to stay16:14
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jgriffithguitarzan: ahh16:14
guitarzanotherwise you're just going to blow up everyone's snapshots/backups16:14
eharneyguitarzan: why is that?16:14
guitarzan"Why are all my snapshots/backups corrupted?"16:14
guitarzanbecause they're live16:15
guitarzanthey're in use16:15
geguileoguitarzan: They wouldn't be corrupted16:15
guitarzanthey're being written to16:15
eharneyguitarzan: they will fail if the driver doesn't support doing this, not corrupt things16:15
DuncanTguitarzan: +116:15
guitarzaneharney: it has nothing to do with the driver16:15
jgriffithguitarzan: I think that's a question for the feature itself then16:15
guitarzanit's a raw block device16:15
eharneyguitarzan: i'm not following then...16:15
jgriffithguitarzan: DuncanT and if that's the case I think force is absolutely fine16:15
DuncanTeharney: Crash consistent snaps are totally different to clean snaps16:15
jgriffithand the correct term16:15
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eharneyhaaang on... what's the path that leads to corruption?16:16
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hemnaeharney, snapping an attached volume16:16
DuncanTeharney: Expecting an unmounted FS or an error, and getting crash consistent16:16
guitarzaneharney: partial write + snapshot + continued partial write16:16
eharneythat's a discussion for whether we should be doing this feature at all, not the client interface, it sounds like to me?16:17
guitarzanno, it's totally a useful feature16:17
guitarzanit just has to be coordinated by the guest16:17
DuncanTeharney: some filesystems and some apps are fine with it, others aren't16:17
guitarzan"Hey, I know what I'm doing, take a snapshot now"16:17
jgriffitheharney: agreed... which make the term "force" seem more appropriate to me16:17
eharneyso you want --force because you say it needs to be delimited as something that's dangerous16:17
guitarzanit is absolutely dangerous16:17
DuncanTeharney: +116:17
hemnaeharney, I think that's the idea yah16:17
eharneyi don't know what my opinion is on that, but i understand the point16:17
jungleboyjguitarzan: That seems appropriate to me.16:18
eharneyi don't remember the help text in the client saying anything about that...16:18
DuncanTeharney: File a bug, that's easy to fix/improve16:18
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jgriffithOk... so force it is?16:18
geguileojgriffith: I think so16:18
jgriffithcan we all agree on that and move on?16:18
hemnayah16:19
xyang2DuncanT: client side is not merged.  So I can improve the help message16:19
guitarzanyes please16:19
eharneyi guess --force and we need to extend what the help text says16:19
eharneyi don't know why i'd file a bug for this16:19
hemnaif we don't pass in force then this happens: https://github.com/openstack/cinder/blob/master/cinder/volume/api.py#L685-L69016:19
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DuncanTeharney: I meant the snap help text that has been there forever16:19
jgriffithxyang2: anything else?16:19
eharneyhemna: force at the API level is a lot different from making the user type --force16:19
eharneyDuncanT: ah gotcha16:19
jungleboyjjgriffith: Makes sense to me.  GO with the safest route.16:19
xyang2jgriffith: all set.  I'll update the patch with a better help msg16:19
jgriffithxyang2: great, thanks xyang216:20
jgriffithand eharney DuncanT geguileo guitarzan for the insights16:20
xyang2thanks16:20
jgriffith#topic open-discussion16:20
*** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:20
hemnaeharney, meh, the reasons we have force there at all are because we wanted the user to type it, for good reasons, so I don't see that as much of a distinction really.16:20
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thingeejust a reminder16:20
thingeehttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-liberty-3-reviews16:20
thingeethose are the priority reviews. please grab some stuff to test and review16:21
schwickethat's why I'm here :)16:21
thingeeI will be contacting folks on getting documentation updated for some of these.16:21
eharneyhemna: the problem was, we didn't write down the good reasons anywhere16:21
thingeeCinder got a shout out at the Cinder midcycle sprint as an example for other projects in how release notes should be16:21
hemnathingee, nice16:22
thingeepeople really appreciated documentation links to go with items on the list16:22
smcginnisWhich midcycle?16:22
jgriffithsmcginnis: :)16:22
thingeesmcginnis: ops midcycle sprint16:22
jgriffithyou caught that too16:22
smcginnis:)16:22
smcginnisCool!16:22
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* thingee noted earlier he's at ops midcycle16:22
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jgriffiththingee: said "Cinder got a shout out at the Cinder midcycle sprint"16:23
thingee09:14 — thingee is present at openstack operators sprint16:23
thingeejgriffith: ^16:23
jgriffiththingee: LOL16:23
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thingeeanyways16:23
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jgriffiththingee: I don't think you get it16:23
jgriffithnever mind16:23
thingeealso jgriffith will be my eyes and ears the next couple of weeks16:23
jgriffithsmcginnis: got it16:23
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thingeeI will be MIA for two weeks in some desert16:23
smcginnisThe puppet master. :P16:24
hemnathingee, we want picts of the bus.16:24
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thingeeI fully expect on August 24th for jgriffith and core to be giving -2's on patches that meet the criteria http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/071505.html16:24
thingeeand for us to be in a very limited bug fix mode when I come back in september16:24
jungleboyjhemna: ++16:24
thingeeI will be back September 7th16:25
* jgriffith wonders what we'll all do for 2 months :)16:25
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smcginnisLots of testing.16:25
smcginnis:)16:25
jgriffiththingee: what does "limited" mean Captain?16:25
hemnasmcginnis, testing?  what is that....16:25
thingeebug fixes, testing16:25
smcginnispep8 passes... ship it.16:26
thingeesmcginnis: +116:26
jgriffithsmcginnis: LOL16:26
DuncanTjgriffith: It's a bug that my array isn't supported, here's a patch to fix it16:26
hemnasmcginnis, winning!16:26
jgriffithDuncanT: ahh... you mean the usual16:26
smcginnisDuncanT: Hah!16:26
dannywilsonlol16:26
jungleboyjsmcginnis: It worked in devstack!16:26
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DuncanTjgriffith: Also, can I backport it to diablo tree?16:26
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thingeethat's all for me.16:26
jungleboyjDuncanT: Sure!16:27
bswartzthingee: when you say things need to be in passing before the 24th that means the actual freeze is 23:59 UTC on August 23rd, right?16:27
jgriffithOk... does anybody have anything we need to talk about as a team?  Or should we get an extra 35 minutes to do reviews :)16:27
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thingeebswartz: it means it had to have passed jenkins before then. merge conflicts can be resolved16:27
smcginnisI'll just state here I'm seeing CI weirdness. Hope it's not just me.16:27
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thingeeoh and welcome geguileo to cinder core folks16:27
smcginnisgeguileo: Congrats!16:28
bswartzokay -- just clarifying because some might have thought 23:59 UTC on the 24th was the deadline16:28
jgriffithindeed congrats geguileo on the fastest core promotion in16:28
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geguileoThanks!!16:28
jgriffithcinder history!16:28
hemna:)16:28
jgriffithOk,,, thingee you have anything else?16:28
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jungleboyjgeguileo: Congrats!16:29
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thingeejgriffith: nope, thanks16:29
jgriffithbswartz: I don't know that he answered your question?16:29
geguileojungleboyj: Thanks16:29
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jgriffith<bswartz> okay -- just clarifying because some might have thought 23:59 UTC on the 24th was the deadline16:29
bswartzjgriffith: he did16:29
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bswartzit was mostly clarification for other people16:30
jgriffith"before then" meaning 23:59 the 23?  or the 24th?16:30
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bswartzI think that thingee said is perfectly clear -- the deadline is the night of the 23rd16:30
hemna23:59:5916:30
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jgriffithhemna: :)16:30
thingeebswartz: +116:30
bswartzthe email isn't so crystal clear16:30
schwickeok, thnaks for the clarification!16:30
jgriffithalright, thanks everyone16:31
thingeebswartz: I ran it by people before I sent it out at the cinder midcycle :P16:31
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* thingee blames xyang116:31
thingee;D16:31
jgriffith#endmeeting16:31
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:31
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 19 16:31:14 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:31
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-08-19-16.02.html16:31
jungleboyjTHanks everyone!16:31
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-08-19-16.02.txt16:31
xyang1thingee: Why?16:31
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-08-19-16.02.log.html16:31
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jungleboyjthingee: Stay safe in the desert!16:31
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thingeexyang1: I'm just kidding. I was saying I blame you because I had you look over the email for it being clear :P16:31
kmartinbswartz, it's not crystal clear, it's "cinder clear"16:31
xyang1thingee: :)16:31
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bswartzlol oh no I've started an argument16:32
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xyang1thingee: You need to ask bswartz to proof read next time:)16:32
thingeexyang1: truth16:32
bswartzyeah someone will always claim "It was the 23rd in my timezone!"16:32
jungleboyjkmartin: Love it!16:32
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thingeesome ops love for Cinder (towards the bottom of the release note remarks) https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-upgrades16:34
jungleboyjSo, midnight on the 23rd, if people are fighting over timezones they have waited too long.16:34
thingeejungleboyj: I usually just woke on the 24th and started marking things accordingly16:34
jungleboyjthingee: ++16:34
jungleboyjWe shall implement accordingly.16:35
thingeejgriffith: this period of limited patch acceptance can be a time for us to do all the fixing we want to do in Cinder, but lack focus because of bps.16:35
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thingeejgriffith: of course huge changes for fixes can be scary16:36
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jgriffiththingee: yeah, I'm familiar with how release cycles work, I just wasn't sure if you had something unique in mind with your phrase "limited bug fixes" when you get back16:36
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schwickehope we'll pass the tests well before that for the hierarchical stuff16:38
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schwickewe're waiting for this for a while now at CERN :)16:38
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notmynameswift meeting time21:00
notmyname#startmeeting swift21:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 19 21:00:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'21:00
notmynamewho's here for the swift meeting?21:00
jrichlihello21:00
mattoliverauo/21:00
cschwedeo/21:00
minwoob_o/21:00
redbohi21:01
tdasilvahi21:01
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hurricanerixo/21:01
blmartinHere by phone21:01
mahatic^21:01
mattoliverauSo this is what it feels like to have a meeting at a normal hour :P21:01
hohi21:01
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torgomatic<--21:01
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notmynamemattoliverau: heh21:01
aerwino/o/21:01
nadeemhi21:01
notmynamemahatic: are you awake at some crazy hour?21:01
mahaticmattoliverau: so this is what it feels like at a very odd hour :P21:01
acoleshere21:01
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mattoliveraumahatic: lol21:01
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notmynamemahatic: 2:30am for you?21:02
cutforth_hello21:02
mahaticnotmyname: yes! weekly meeting cancelled for 6 am tomm! so I thought I'll pull off a couple of more hours :P21:02
notmynamewow21:02
notmynameok, then let's get started21:02
notmyname#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift21:02
notmyname#topic hackathon summary21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "hackathon summary (Meeting topic: swift)"21:02
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notmynamelast week we had a great week (IMO) in austin at the hackathon21:03
notmynameI'd like to again thank jrichli for hosting and coordinating everything on the ground21:03
mattoliverau+10021:03
mattoliverau+10021:03
notmynamealso for the cookies ;-)21:03
mattoliverau+10021:03
claygyup jrichli cookies were great21:03
acolesgreat job jrichli21:03
jrichliYou all are welcome!  it was fun21:03
minwoob_Thanks for the cookies.21:04
claygnom nom nom21:04
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notmynameI'm currently writing up a summary of the week in a blog post. should be published later this week (that's the plan)21:04
jrichli:-)21:04
notmynamebut for a summary of the summary...21:04
claygheh21:04
mahatic:D21:04
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notmynamelanding patches faster: need better tools and communication21:04
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notmynamefor tools, there's a couple of things to look in to21:05
redboit was great, jrichli!21:05
jrichliglad you liked it redbo!21:05
notmynameI've been told that gerrit doesn't have sticky comments21:05
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notmynameand I'm still working on a "group prioritization" thing to find who's starred what patches21:05
notmynamebut the basicn thing I took away there was to communicate more on patches21:05
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notmynameif there's already a +2, don't push a patch set over it unless necessary21:06
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notmynameif you rebase, make a note saying that's all you did21:06
notmynameif you push a patch set up, give a quick sentence explaining the difference21:06
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notmynamethat will help us all use the tool better (until such time as we have better tools)21:06
notmynamealso, lot's of stuff on EC issues and getting it to "done"21:07
notmynameseveral things identified and being worked through now21:07
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notmynameit means there are some good patches up to review now, and take a look at the bugs tagged "ec"21:07
notmynameI think that we'll be able to clear up these known issues and have something reasonable by tokyo21:08
zaitcevI have to admit I started skipping EC recently.21:08
notmynamethat's like the opposite of the right thing! ;-)21:08
clayglol21:08
zaitcevI know we have Clay, Kota, Sam et al on the job, so it's easy to get lazy.21:08
notmynamezaitcev: we missed you last week21:08
notmynamezaitcev: oh, I can sympathize with that :-)21:08
notmynamewe also talked about encryption and what's going on there21:09
notmynamejrichli has organized https://trello.com/b/63l5zQhq/swift-encryption so that it's clear for the big stuff outstanding21:10
notmynamein the "to do for reduced scope" column21:10
notmynameI think we'll be able to make some great progress on this before tokyo, but I'd be surprised if we get it full done by then21:10
notmyname(unless someone tells me "oh yeah it's simple and we're totally already done")21:11
jrichli:-)21:11
acoleswe'll get the PUT path done :)21:11
notmynamealso at the hackathon we talked about global cluster improvements. not a ton of stuff there except maybe some handoff affinity. most of the rest is deployment management21:11
* cschwede is curious about handoff affinity21:12
claygnotmyname: is there a bug on handoff affinity?  I still don't think I understand exactly how the sorting is going wrong for us?21:12
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mattoliverauare we talking write affinity or handoff affinity21:12
claygcschwede: right?!  like I think we're supposed to already do this in the proxy, I think something is wrong - but I don't really understand what's breaking down21:13
notmynamehandoff, I thought21:13
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notmynamechoose a handoff in the same region as the failed primary21:13
claygmattoliverau: it must be the affinity of a write when write affinity is turned on and some amount of primaries is down21:13
notmynamemaybe I misremembered21:13
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mattoliverauclayg: yup ok, I've also got a patch up there to add handoff affinity to the replicators21:14
notmynameyeah, we need to actually have a bug written down21:14
cschwedewell, even if primaries are not down but use write affinity - you might need handoffs_first? but maybe needs to be discussed outside the meeting. i’m really curious!21:14
mattoliverauso we're talking from the proxy side, got it21:14
cschwedesometimes proxy is not enough? ie prevent new data written to a node, but also move data asap somewhere elese?21:15
clayghandoff affinity in the replicators?  like when a primary gets a 507 for a partner in the same region? I don't think I have that starred21:15
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claygwe need to open a launchpad tag for global-cluster and makes some issues21:15
mattoliverauclayg: yeah, it was an request from an OP during the ops session in Vancouver21:16
notmynameok, so it seems like there's something to with handoffs. and they might (or might not) have affinity.21:16
notmynameclayg: good idea21:16
mattoliveraulol21:16
mattoliveraurigh moving on :P21:16
notmynameheh, ok21:16
notmynamethe full clusters discussion was good, I thought. got a list of stuff to write down in some "what to do when swift asplodes" doc. also some ideas as to new tools to write to help in cluster full scenarios21:16
claygmattoliverau: everyone keeps saying someone in vancouver said something about affinity - but I'm not sure that anyone knows who - or wrote down what they acctually wanted21:16
mattoliverauyeah, its on the priority reviews wiki21:16
notmynamemattoliverau: not in any detail, though21:17
mattoliverauthat's true21:17
notmynamemattoliverau led a good discussion on container sharding21:17
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claygmattoliverau: "handoff affinity (handoffs in the same region)" <= i don't know what that means or what's broken21:17
mattoliverauWell I have something up, and hopefully the op in question will review :P21:17
notmynameone thing I liked about it is that there are a lot more people looking/thinking about it21:17
claygyay container sharding!  redbo will know what to do!21:17
mattoliverauyeah, I'll write up a new version of the SPEC to include what was discussed (maybe on the plane ride home)21:17
notmynameand it looks like there might be a reasonable reduced-scope plan of what to do21:18
mattoliverau^ sharding21:18
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notmynameredbo and dfg and nadeem and allen told us about hummingbird. I like it a lot and they did a great job. I have a much better idea of what the goal actually is and the plans to solve the problem21:19
mattoliverau+121:19
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* clayg wonders if he'll ever get back to his hummingbird patch21:19
zaitcevI don't have a hard requirement for c sharding, but I'm very enthusiastic for Matt actually doing it. Swift needed it for years, but we got by with application-controlled split-up for containers.21:19
notmynamefor those not there, the problem being solved is summed up as "object replication is slow in big clusters" (somehwat simplified)21:19
notmynameso the golang object server + object replication processes help with speeding up replication21:20
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notmynameand that right there is a really good thing21:20
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notmynameso the initial numbers they presented were pretty encouraging, and they shared some tools on how we can all duplicate the tests in our own environment21:20
cschwedecan you give a raw estimation? like 10% faster, or more like 10x?21:21
* cschwede needs faster object replication21:21
claygnotmyname: oh yeah!  I want to try that with keep_cache_private = true21:21
notmynamebut also, there was the common understanding that the hummingbird branch is intentionally simplified (eg no policy support) for now, and it's a long-term thing21:21
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claygcschwede: I think it was more like "can rebalance as fast as we're adding capacity" vs. "can not rebalance as fast as we're adding capacity"21:22
clayg#10PB+problems21:22
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notmynamecschwede: the numbers for now are more about asyncs and .... yeah, what clayg said21:23
notmynameright. how many partitions can get rebalanced when adding significant capacity21:23
hocschwede: put 1.5X, get 4.6X, delete 1.4X in my memo.21:23
notmynameho: thanks!21:23
notmynameredbo: is that right? ^21:23
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claygcschwede: oh, I thought you were talking about replication not the object server21:24
acolescschwede : same as ho in my notes, ho looked it up faster!21:24
claygI thought reads form the page cache were like 6x faster21:24
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hoacoles: hehe21:24
claygand I thought the os threads for blocking syscalls got them like near 2x on writes & delete's21:24
cschwedeclayg: ho: notmyname: acoles thx! sounds great. yeah, i had replication in mind primarily, but put/get as well21:24
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* cschwede needs to have a closer look to hummingbird21:25
redboSorry, wasn't following too close.  Replication speed is one of the big goals.21:25
acolesclayg: yeah i noted 2x on write/delete for 1k objs, numbers above were 1M21:26
claygI really do wanna do server per port with ~4 workers per port and keep_cache_private = true21:26
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redboPolicies is one simplification.  I don't think it'll be too difficult to add replicated policies, we just don't use them.21:26
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notmynameredbo: right. wasn't saying that as a ding. just that the goals right now are more around replication times in your clusters than "full replacement"21:27
notmynamewhich is totally reasonable IMO21:27
notmynameso aside for the specific things going on, the larger thing is just that there is a *ton* of stuff going on in swift right now21:28
notmynamewe had 27 people at the hackathon. and over 40 things listed as topics to talk about21:28
claygredbo: and POST!  but feature parity may be a distraction; enumeration of differences is a) more useful and b) required to quantify parity21:28
notmynameso if you feel like it's hard to keep track of all the things and a lot is happening, you're right!21:28
claygnotmyname: did we get to everything when it was all said and done?21:28
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notmynameclayg: we did not do anythign about metadata searching21:28
notmynamebut yeah, we got almost everything21:29
claygsigh, or part power adjustment - sorry cschwede21:29
claygwell - that's pretty good i 'spose21:29
claygnotmyname: I feel like it's hard to keep track of all the things and a lot is happening21:29
notmynameclayg: you're right! ;-)21:29
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cschwedegood that we meet again in ~ 9 weeks :)21:29
claygomg - i can't believe it21:30
notmynameso with all the stuff going on, it's pretty important that we prioritize and realize what is reasonable to do before tokyo, what we can make progress on in the short-term, and what we defer to "conversations over beer"21:30
notmynameso unless there's other things to say about the hackathon, that's a good segue to talkign about releases21:31
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claygyay release!21:31
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torgomaticprobably good to release code sometimes :)21:32
notmyname#topic releases21:32
*** openstack changes topic to "releases (Meeting topic: swift)"21:32
notmynameyeah21:32
notmynameso I want to do a release next week21:32
zaitcevokay21:32
claygalthough at this point I want to get in peluse's etag_buckets fix for EC overwrite and probably other stuff too21:32
notmynameI'll be working on release notes, etc21:32
notmynameit will be 2.421:32
notmynameand that should give us time to have one more release before tokyo (albeit with a fast turnaround)21:33
notmynameso here's a "rule" I'd like to try to follow: if there is any open bug that is marked as critical, it blocks a release21:34
notmyname(rule in quotes because I don't know a better word of the top of my head)21:34
mahaticguideline ;)21:34
notmynameso if you're looking at a swift bug in launchpad.....rather, "when" you're looking at swift bugs in launchpad, if there's something that must be in the next release, it should be marked critical21:34
notmynamemahatic: thanks :-)21:35
notmynamedoes that sound ok with everyone?21:35
zaitcevhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/swift shows 5 critical ones.21:35
mattoliverauyup, great plan21:35
claygzaitcev: nice!  so... are they inprogress?21:35
notmynameya21:35
notmynamethe 2 open ones are the 2 we aren't supposed to talk about publicly yet ;-)21:36
mattoliverau3 are fix commited21:36
notmynameshhhh21:36
mattoliverauninja bugs21:36
claygphthththth - dorks21:36
notmynameanything else about releases?21:37
acolesnotmyname: sounds ok21:37
notmyname#topic keystone related patches21:37
*** openstack changes topic to "keystone related patches (Meeting topic: swift)"21:37
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notmyname#link http://paste.openstack.org/show/421542/21:37
notmynameho: this is your topic21:37
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claygho: drop some knowledge21:37
hoyeah, I would like to introduce keystone related patches in swift to get atention from you :-)21:37
torgomaticone of these years, I should figure out how to spin up a Keystone instance21:38
hoI summarized the current status in the paste url.21:38
hoIf you have a time, please read it and feel free to ask me.21:38
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hothat's i want to say here. :)21:38
mattoliverauho: thanks for the paste, that's useful :)21:38
claygtorgomatic: you can't - your business hours overlap with North American timezone - for some reason it's impossible to know anything about swift+keystone if you work in North America - no one knows why21:38
acolesclayg: i'm moving to north america then :P21:39
* clayg goes to read the paste21:39
mattoliveraulol21:39
hoacoles: great idea! lol@21:39
notmynameho: thanks for working on this21:39
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claygho: oh I think i misunderstood - you don't want more attention to swift+keystone *in general* - you just have some keystone patches that need more immediate attention21:40
notmynameI just had someone today mention something about swift+keystone v3 and wanting something better21:40
zaitcevtorgomatic: it's very easy. just edit and run this - http://www.zaitcev.us/things/keystone-setup.sh21:40
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notmynamezaitcev: that's great!21:40
acolesso ho has done a lot of work on a comprehensive test suite for checking all role based access scenarios. they were taking a looong time to execute but we got that done some in austin21:41
cschwedezaitcev: nice! saved21:41
acoless/done/down/21:41
hoclayg: yeah21:41
claygzaitcev: I dont' think `systemctl start openstack-keystone.service21:42
clayg^ will work on my ssytem21:42
hoi also try to make vagrant-swift-all-in-one with keystone21:42
claygzaitcev: that's like "given a pre-existing keystone deployment" here's 100 lines of bash that can "set it up"21:43
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hoI will push it to the repository but i have to learn more about chef :-)21:43
tdasilvai think mattoliverau ansible scripts sets up keystone, right?21:43
notmynameho: thanks for bringing these up21:43
zaitcevclayg: My point is, you don't need to bring up whole OpenStack, just do what the script does and it makes Keystone with stable IDs and SQLite backend. Fairly painless when compared with the OOO-based installer...21:44
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mattoliverautdasilva: yeah, I have something, I'll get that up one of these days21:44
clayghugokuo: has keystone setup scripts too!21:44
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notmynamesounds like there's a few things. ok, everyone go race to see who can write docs and scripts the fastest! go!21:45
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notmyname#topic open discussion21:45
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)"21:45
notmynamewhat else is on your mind?21:45
claygwe everyone has scripts!  I don't think that really solves "a group is just a role that assigns a user to project under the domain, what's the problem!"21:46
torgomaticeh, the scripts still help (me)21:46
torgomaticlast time I tried was by spinning up a full devstack, and it took two hours and didn't work21:46
claygyeah, i suppose you're right21:46
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cschwedesounds familar21:47
notmynameI'm at the openstack ops meetup right now. there's love for swift here. "it just works." "it's very stable" "I don't have to worry about it". etc21:47
claygtorgomatic: heh, i seem to be able to get my devstack turned on most of the time21:47
hurricanerixnotmyname: I have that testr patch currently marked as a WIP.  If anybody cares to look and give feedback on it.21:47
notmynamebe proud of what you've done with swif t:-)21:47
minwoob_I think if we had more time at the hackathon, we might have gotten to a discussion regarding small file optimizations for EC.21:47
notmynamehurricanerix: right! that's a good one21:47
notmynamehurricanerix: I'm planning on looking at that asap21:47
claygtorgomatic: but using keystone client is a real PITA - there's some descrepency between what the api says to do and what you can do with the keystone client?  I think the openstack client is better supported but less documented or something?21:47
notmyname(which might be a day or so)21:47
minwoob_Specifically, whether we'd want to go forward with a dual-policy for EC policy for small vs. large objects.21:48
hurricanerixnotmyname: cool, thanks.21:48
minwoob_(replication and EC).21:48
zaitcevOn the other hand, I met an IT guy from New York who said he attended some of our sessions in Vancouver, and found "Swift people" "disorganized".21:48
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notmynameminwoob_: yeah, that's a big deal. definitely needs to happen (small file optimization). post tokyo, though21:48
notmynamein the few times I opened my laptop, I saw a ton of pep8 patches (and zaitcev saying stuff on twitter). what's going on?21:49
acolestorgomatic: clayg keystoneclient CLI doesn't support v3 so openstack cli the way21:49
claygzaitcev: we *are* disorganized - there's too much going on :'(21:49
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claygacoles: I think zaitcev's script gets by with 'keystone'21:49
mattoliverauzaitcev: and we didn't have monitors in the meeting rooms so that made showing things harder21:49
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zaitcevnotmyname: The gentleman with strange nickname was trying to reduce the Hxxx/Fxxx exclusion list. One patch per exclusion.21:49
notmynamethe exclusion list is not a TODO list21:50
zaitcevoh21:50
claygnotmyname: heh21:50
minwoob_notmyname: Right. Do you think it's something good for a spec?21:50
torgomaticnotmyname: yes, and we allowed the ones that made sense and rejected the oens that didn't21:50
notmynametorgomatic: ok, great21:50
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claygminwoob_: it would help to have more words - what you're thinking and how you're thinking about doing it - a spec is a plce you can write words - so it might work21:51
notmynameI spoke with someone here, and it seems like it would be possible to adjust some dependencies so that we can get back to a whitelist of style changes. it's something I'll look in to at some point21:51
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notmynameclayg: minwoob_: we had some good dieas back at the boston hackathon21:51
acolesclayg: yeah but i don't see it adding all the test accounts we now have - there's one in a non-default domain21:51
notmynamenot sure what (if anything) was written, though21:51
minwoob_I'll try to coordinate with someone on that, then.21:52
claygthe *boston* hackathon?  about directing to ec/replicated "policy" based on size?21:52
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minwoob_It probably goes deeper than just "if an object in the EC policy is < certain size, store it via replication".21:52
notmynameclayg: something about just storing the whole data for smal objects, but in every fragment (ie 14x replication).21:52
notmynameminwoob_: yeah, probably21:53
minwoob_But a good start.21:53
claygminwoob_: redbo commented that basically the way the ec policies were exposed makes them very difficult to deploy for service providers because... well because users make unexpected choices :\21:53
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notmynameminwoob_: so, yes, it would be good to work on and it's definitely needed. one reason is because of what clayg jsut said21:53
notmynameminwoob_: so I'd love to see something there, but don't expect it to get much attention for a few months at least21:53
minwoob_Yeah, definitely something post-Liberty.21:54
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notmynamedepending on what we get done in the next few weeks, it might be a decent session in tokyo21:54
redboif we can do a small file optimization for EC policies, could we do a large file EC optimization for replicated policies?  :)21:54
claygho: anyway - if you *could* keep working on keystone support for vagrant-swift-all-in-one that'd be great21:54
notmynameredbo: one policy for everything!21:54
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notmynameanything else to bring up from anyone this week?21:55
hoclayg: thanks! i will brush up it more21:55
zaitcevJust one more step and it'll turn out that policies were unnecessary to begin with. Except for e.g. geographic policies.21:55
notmynamezaitcev: just one policy: do-the-right-thing21:55
mattoliveraulol21:56
notmynameok, I'm calling it21:56
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claygI'm really not sure if it's quite as simple as a single storage policy that can do both kinds of data :\  It feels more like per policy constraints or automagic re-routing of requests + symlinks21:56
notmynamethanks for coming today. and thanks for working on swift21:56
torgomaticwhat are you calling it?21:56
mattoliverauBob21:56
torgomaticGood choice21:56
notmynametorgomatic: done (the meeting)21:56
claygSteve21:56
jrichlilol21:56
redbothe other thing was if a customer sets EC policy, we could reject uploads < some size21:56
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notmynameit's always "steve" for me21:56
minwoob_lol21:56
notmynameredbo: ya. 409 conflict21:56
notmynameredbo: or 412. whatever21:57
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notmynameredbo: and no chunked encoding21:57
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notmynameor copies. or *LOs21:57
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cschwedesimplifies a lot21:57
notmyname:-)21:58
notmyname#endmeeting21:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:58
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 19 21:58:03 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-08-19-21.00.html21:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-08-19-21.00.txt21:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-08-19-21.00.log.html21:58
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