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| JRobinson__ | Hello everyone, Just an announcement on the APAC docs meeting: This weeks meeting is cancelled, and meeting items will be addressed next week in the US Docs Meeting. | 00:02 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker: ... | 07:01 |
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| asalkeld | #startmeeting heat | 07:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 8 07:01:51 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 07:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 07:01 |
| asalkeld | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda | 07:01 |
| asalkeld | not filled in ^ | 07:02 |
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| asalkeld | #topic rollcall | 07:02 |
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| sirushti | o/ | 07:02 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker: feel free to take over | 07:02 |
| kairat_kushaev | o/ | 07:02 |
| huangtianhua | ：） | 07:02 |
| skraynev | o/ | 07:02 |
| Qiming | hi | 07:02 |
| KanagarajM | hi | 07:02 |
| tspatzier | hi | 07:03 |
| asalkeld | #topic Adding items to agenda | 07:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 07:03 | |
| shardy | o/ | 07:03 |
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| asalkeld | we have seriously no agenda :-O | 07:03 |
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| asalkeld | so come on folks | 07:03 |
| shardy | I wanted to add the nested validation BP as it's not had much feedback other than from jdob | 07:03 |
| asalkeld | k | 07:04 |
| asalkeld | maybe any important bugs | 07:04 |
| asalkeld | well let's get started and add more as needed | 07:04 |
| asalkeld | #topic the nested validation BP that is not getting reviewed ... grrr | 07:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "the nested validation BP that is not getting reviewed ... grrr (Meeting topic: heat)" | 07:04 | |
| asalkeld | ;) | 07:04 |
| shardy | haha | 07:05 |
| asalkeld | shardy: link | 07:05 |
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| shardy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197199/ | 07:05 |
| shardy | So, this one is supposed to compliment the constraints/capabilities one which has gotten pretty good feedback | 07:05 |
| asalkeld | shardy: were you not the cause for that issue? i seem to remember you didn't want nest stack validation at some point | 07:05 |
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| xek | o/ | 07:06 |
| shardy | The idea is to enable discovery of the parameters required/possible for the entire tree, e.g accessible via parameter_defaults | 07:06 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: No, I disabled *value* validation, because most values are None at the time of validation and all the new custom constraints broke everthing | 07:06 |
| ramishra | hi | 07:06 |
| shardy | This is about generating a schema for the tree, which was irrelevant before parameter_defaults existed | 07:07 |
| asalkeld | shardy: my patch might help? | 07:07 |
| shardy | but now that they do, it opens the possibility of "pluggable" templates, which may take additional parameters (other than the subset provided from the parent template) | 07:07 |
| asalkeld | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197402/ | 07:07 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Yeah that's maybe part of it | 07:08 |
| asalkeld | mmm, i need to read the spec | 07:08 |
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| shardy | my main question is do we need a new "template-inspect" API, or can we piggy-back this recursive validation on template-validate | 07:08 |
| pas-ha | hi all | 07:08 |
| asalkeld | not a fan of too much plugg'n | 07:08 |
| shardy | I prefer the latter, because it extends the existing parameters schema template-validate exposes | 07:09 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: easy to say until you're dealing with a tree of 90 nested stacks :\ | 07:09 |
| shardy | then you realize the limitations of our current composition model :) | 07:09 |
| skraynev | shardy: I will add your spec to this list https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-reviews | 07:09 |
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| shardy | skraynev: Ok, thanks | 07:09 |
| asalkeld | shardy: you write way too much text - phew | 07:09 |
| * shardy sighs | 07:10 | |
| asalkeld | that's a book | 07:10 |
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| shardy | In the other review folks wanted *more* detail because they couldn't understand the use-case | 07:10 |
| asalkeld | shardy: i'll have a look a bit later | 07:10 |
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| shardy | Add a comment and I'll strip it back to minimal | 07:10 |
| asalkeld | shardy: mostly joking - just takes time to read:-O | 07:11 |
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| Qiming | a book on Heat is actually not a bad idea, ;) | 07:11 |
| * shardy offers to help given his apparent excessive wordiness ;D | 07:12 | |
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| shardy | anyway, that's all, please add comments if you can manage to read it all | 07:12 |
| shardy | I'd like to start coding both specs fairly soon, if possible | 07:12 |
| asalkeld | #topic importing bugs ... | 07:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "importing bugs ... (Meeting topic: heat)" | 07:12 | |
| asalkeld | grr | 07:12 |
| asalkeld | #topic important bugs ... | 07:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "important bugs ... (Meeting topic: heat)" | 07:13 | |
| asalkeld | any? | 07:13 |
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| pas-ha | is triple-o stable lately? last week AFAIR one could not trust its job result too much | 07:13 |
| asalkeld | i don't see any new high priority bugs... | 07:14 |
| shardy | pas-ha: there was an outage last week, stable again now AFAIK | 07:14 |
| pas-ha | shardy, cool, thanks | 07:14 |
| sirushti | btw, does this count as important? -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1470709? | 07:14 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1470709 in heat "Using wrong auth encryption key can lead to data loss" [Undecided,New] | 07:14 |
| asalkeld | #topic open discussion | 07:14 |
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| ritesh | hi all I wanted to dicussu about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187524/13 | 07:14 |
| ritesh | heat stack pause and unpause | 07:14 |
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| asalkeld | sirushti: wouuld require major config messup | 07:15 |
| asalkeld | ritesh: shoot | 07:15 |
| shardy | asalkeld: I'm not sure how we could fix that, without storing the key in the DB, which is obviously impossible | 07:15 |
| ritesh | I got comment from steve baker, I am not able to go up with the specs | 07:15 |
| ritesh | can we have conclusion here | 07:15 |
| pas-ha | ritesh, I'm actually in favor of stevebaker's suggestion | 07:16 |
| sirushti | asalkeld, cool | 07:16 |
| skraynev | asalkled: about high priority bugs, we can take a look link from previous meeting http://bit.ly/1FnhaIK | 07:16 |
| skraynev | #link http://bit.ly/1FnhaIK | 07:16 |
| pas-ha | we should not replicate Nova's states | 07:16 |
| therve | sirushti, The new fernet algo fixes that | 07:16 |
| ritesh | ok <<pas-ha>> If we use the suspend or pause porlicy then we have to write to each resoucre of Nova:OS:Sever. When we are talking about Suspend / Pause to a stack , the main intention is to have on whole stack . Flaver or Image update policy are applicable to servers which demands. | 07:16 |
| shardy | ritesh: does pause/unpause affect any other resource except Servers? | 07:17 |
| sirushti | therve, oh cool, I'll take a look at that then, thanks | 07:17 |
| pas-ha | shardy, yep | 07:17 |
| ritesh | no it will not effect apart of servers @shardy | 07:17 |
| shardy | ritesh: for example, suspend resume does stuff like disabling users when the stack is suspended IIRC | 07:17 |
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| asalkeld | ritesh: having lots of actions is a large maintenance burden, it should be widely useful and applicable to most resource types | 07:18 |
| asalkeld | imho | 07:18 |
| pas-ha | that's why I also do not like adding an extra stack action just for server | 07:18 |
| asalkeld | yeah | 07:18 |
| ritesh | so how do we handle now for pausing a stack in heat ? | 07:19 |
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| asalkeld | ritesh: you mean the servers within the stack? | 07:19 |
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| ritesh | yes | 07:19 |
| pas-ha | server pause is simply not supported as of now AFAIU | 07:19 |
| asalkeld | pas-ha: he is suggesting adding it | 07:19 |
| asalkeld | as a new stack action | 07:19 |
| ritesh | yes I am suggesting adding it | 07:19 |
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| shardy | So, stevebaker is proposing a suspend_policy property which only affects OS::Nova::Server | 07:20 |
| pas-ha | yes, and I prefer approach stevebaker pointed in his comment | 07:20 |
| shardy | which other resources would need it? | 07:20 |
| asalkeld | it would be nice to beable to discover what actions each resource type supported and have them as links for each resource | 07:20 |
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| shardy | it seems a bit wrong to declare state in the template, but I can see why he proposes it, it's much less code to write and maintain | 07:20 |
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| pas-ha | well, that's what ideal REST world would be :) | 07:20 |
| ritesh | I have alredy wirteen the code for puase and unpause , it is not to complicated to maintain the code | 07:21 |
| shardy | pas-ha: well FWIW the idea of the "actions" API was for stuff which only affects stack state, and not it's definition | 07:21 |
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| shardy | we had this same debate back when I added suspend/resume | 07:22 |
| ritesh | actually we are supporing snapshot and resume also | 07:22 |
| asalkeld | ritesh: i suspect your spec is not progressing because people are reluctant to +2, but there is not really a nice solution | 07:22 |
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| asalkeld | ritesh: yeah, tho' i am not sure that was the best idea | 07:22 |
| asalkeld | (just cos' there is something there doen't mean we should extend it) | 07:22 |
| inc0 | while I dislike idea of adding stack pause just for server...maybe stack call-method resume would be nice? | 07:22 |
| ritesh | to pause / suspend a stack thorugh template, it means we have to udpate the stack | 07:23 |
| ritesh | we are not updating the stack here | 07:23 |
| shardy | maybe we need an improved resource level interface, so you have an "action schema" or something, avoiding all the boilerplate handle_foo when a new action is needed | 07:23 |
| inc0 | while call_method $method will call handle_$method for add applicable resources? | 07:23 |
| pas-ha | ritesh, yes, I agree update+suspend instead of than just "pause" is ugly | 07:23 |
| shardy | then you can have a generic passthrough inside the engine with the actions supported only defined inside the resource | 07:24 |
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| asalkeld | ok, well if anyone has ideas, please add to ritesh 's spec review | 07:25 |
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| shardy | ritesh: I agree, it's the same argument I had with suspend/resume, it's not really a stack update | 07:25 |
| ritesh | yes please | 07:25 |
| shardy | ritesh: I'll try to refine my ideas re resource interfaces and comment later today | 07:25 |
| ritesh | Thank you shardy | 07:25 |
| Qiming | there are many resource level actions that are useful, but it may not be a good solution to expose them as stack actions | 07:25 |
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| asalkeld | +1 | 07:26 |
| Qiming | e.g. for a nova server, you can do resize, image generation, change password, reboot, rebuild | 07:26 |
| shardy | Qiming: You mean we need a resource level actions API? | 07:26 |
| kairat_kushaev | So we need to think about common solution for such cases? | 07:26 |
| therve | shardy, I don't think suspend_policy means to declare state? It means suspend will do pause on servers, I think? | 07:26 |
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| pas-ha | Qiming, the idea is to have "any" stack action (REST endpoint) can propagate to resource actions (REST-endpoints) | 07:26 |
| shardy | therve: ah! Ok that might be OK | 07:26 |
| ritesh | as sugested by by <inc0> we can have generic call_method <suuspend/resume/pauxe/unpuasu/resize> | 07:26 |
| Qiming | shardy, I doubt it, but I'm reluctant to make these things stack actions | 07:27 |
| inc0 | maybe do this as resource call? | 07:27 |
| shardy | Qiming: The argument for making them stack actions is if ordering is important | 07:27 |
| shardy | e.g if you must pause/unpause the servers in dependency order, then it has to be a stack action | 07:28 |
| shardy | Probably, in many cases, that ordering *is* important | 07:28 |
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| Qiming | shardy, okay, dependency ... | 07:28 |
| shardy | e.g you won't want to unpause your webapp before the DB | 07:28 |
| inc0 | if we make it generic tho, how do we specify direction of dependency? | 07:29 |
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| shardy | inc0: the DAG is walked in dependency order on pause and reverse dependency order on unpause | 07:29 |
| inc0 | you'd like to pause webapp before DB | 07:29 |
| shardy | same as for suspend/resume | 07:29 |
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| shardy | inc0: the dependency order is already known by heat, either implicitly due to get_resource/get_attr or explicitly via depends_on | 07:30 |
| inc0 | yeah, true | 07:30 |
| inc0 | and in handle_call we could specify which direction is applicable to this method | 07:30 |
| asalkeld | any review requests? | 07:31 |
| xek | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190183/ - looking for reviews | 07:31 |
| sirushti | would it be possible to get mistral to do these arbitrary actions? expose the things mistral needs via the api to find out the dependencies and then let it execute these arbitrary actions | 07:32 |
| shardy | asalkeld: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196656/ (I know you've already commented on this a lot but want wider feedback) | 07:32 |
| asalkeld | sirushti: i was think that, but it's going to take some time integrating | 07:32 |
| asalkeld | and providing examples etc.. | 07:32 |
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| sirushti | probably, but it's a cleaner solution else we'd have arbitrary resource actions and api | 07:33 |
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| sirushti | maybe | 07:33 |
| sirushti | re: review request - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190641/ | 07:33 |
| shardy | sirushti: that's an interesting idea, although it sounds a bit like mistral is just proxying some API calls | 07:33 |
| shardy | e.g the workflow is inside heat derived from the dependency graph. | 07:34 |
| asalkeld | shardy: maybe we could have a way of registing a workflow per resoruce_type/action | 07:34 |
| shardy | I suppose we could create the workflow and push it to mistral | 07:34 |
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| asalkeld | then heat runs the applicable workflow in order | 07:34 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Hmm, yeah, I'd be interested to see what that would look like | 07:34 |
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| asalkeld | yeah, anyones todo list looking super low? ;) | 07:35 |
| asalkeld | ooo tour de france highlights on telly | 07:36 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: it's a good stage :) | 07:36 |
| asalkeld | cobbles | 07:36 |
| asalkeld | should we end this stage/meeting | 07:37 |
| ritesh | Hi, all, could you pleas comment | 07:37 |
| ritesh | https://ask.openstack.org/en/question/69487/unable-to-launch-stack-in-kilo-heat/ | 07:37 |
| ritesh | on this | 07:37 |
| asalkeld | looking | 07:37 |
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| asalkeld | ritesh: that looks like a bug | 07:38 |
| skraynev | asalkeld: I suppose, that we can | 07:38 |
| sirushti | since everyone's here. I have a question on functional testing actually that's been lingering for some time in my mind - How do we scale the gate with all these new resources? | 07:38 |
| ritesh | <asalkeld> so I will file a bug on this | 07:38 |
| asalkeld | ritesh: need more info - template etc... | 07:39 |
| asalkeld | sirushti: not sure, potentially multiple jobs? | 07:39 |
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| asalkeld | some projects have 3rd party jobs | 07:39 |
| pas-ha | ritesh, and actual procedure how it was installed "converted _my_ heat to debian" is vague | 07:40 |
| sirushti | I'm wondering if conditional testing would be a possible idea now that we have devstack plugins | 07:40 |
| ritesh | description: stack template generated from OVF file heat_template_version: '2013-05-23' resources: PL4: properties: config_drive: 'True' flavor: m1.tiny image: test_final name: PL4 networks: - network: 4020952c-9405-4a64-9615-8bea4bdb5009 type: OS::Nova::Server | 07:40 |
| pas-ha | ritesh - add that to the bug when you file it | 07:40 |
| sirushti | so if someone proposes a patch for a particular resource, we register the endpoint for that resource in keystone, run tests for those resources, else just skip it | 07:40 |
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| asalkeld | sirushti: need a functional test config option | 07:41 |
| ritesh | using pydist tool converted the heatclient and heat source code into depabains and installed that into ubuntu using apt-get install heat debains | 07:41 |
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| shardy | sirushti: FWIW I think we should avoid adding individual coverage for every single resource, and instead focus on getting good scenario tests which give us good "real world" coverage | 07:41 |
| pas-ha | shardy, +1 | 07:41 |
| shardy | e.g resist turning functional tests into expensive unit tests checking stuff like interfaces | 07:41 |
| sirushti | shardy, pas-ha, sure, but we might regress on all the non-important use cases | 07:42 |
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| shardy | sirushti: I'm saying get coverage for more trivial tests via unit tests | 07:42 |
| shardy | which are far cheaper to run | 07:42 |
| asalkeld | sirushti: we have our limits | 07:42 |
| shardy | then have more complex multi-resource tests run as functiona/scenario tests | 07:42 |
| asalkeld | the gate is limited we need to make the best use of it | 07:42 |
| shardy | asalkeld: +1 | 07:42 |
| asalkeld | ok, lets move over to #heat | 07:43 |
| asalkeld | #endmeeting | 07:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 8 07:43:19 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-07-08-07.01.html | 07:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-07-08-07.01.txt | 07:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-07-08-07.01.log.html | 07:43 |
| sirushti | thanks all for the feedback | 07:43 |
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| BobBall | #startmeeting XenAPI | 09:29 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 8 09:29:10 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is BobBall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:29 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:29 |
| BobBall | johnthetubaguy - ping | 09:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 09:29 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 09:29 |
| BobBall | Agenda from https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/XenAPI | 09:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | hey, so I should update my calendar | 09:29 |
| BobBall | Would be good! :) | 09:29 |
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| BobBall | Morning huazhihao | 09:30 |
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| * johnthetubaguy has updated his calendar :) | 09:30 | |
| johnthetubaguy | huazhihao: welcome! | 09:30 |
| BobBall | So - huazhihao - can I introduce John Garbutt | 09:30 |
| BobBall | John used to be on the Citrix XenServer team, now works for Rackspace and is currently the Nova PTL (Project Technical Lead) | 09:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, working in the public cloud team | 09:31 |
| huazhihao | Hi Everybody | 09:31 |
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| BobBall | John, this is Zhihao, but would like to be known by his western name, John | 09:31 |
| BobBall | So on gerrit etc his name is John Hua | 09:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | huazhihao: good choice of western name :) | 09:32 |
| huazhihao | Haha | 09:32 |
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| huazhihao | Sorry for the confusion | 09:32 |
| BobBall | It's fine | 09:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I was once on a team at Citrix with three people called John | 09:32 |
| BobBall | We used to have a Ewan leading the team then I employed a Euan | 09:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | it was quite fun | 09:32 |
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| BobBall | That was also a fun bit of confusion | 09:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol | 09:32 |
| BobBall | But I think we'll make it understandable | 09:33 |
| huazhihao | I don't mind if you call me hua | 09:33 |
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| BobBall | OK - I'm going to try and follow the agenda that we've got up in future | 09:33 |
| huazhihao | It is my family name | 09:33 |
| BobBall | So: Actions from last meeting - None! | 09:33 |
| huazhihao | And makes it easier | 09:33 |
| BobBall | #topic Blueprints / reviews | 09:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints / reviews (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 09:34 | |
| BobBall | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking | 09:34 |
| BobBall | Specifically scroll down to the Xen/XenAPI sub team | 09:34 |
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| BobBall | There are two bugfixes there which we need comments on etc | 09:34 |
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| BobBall | johnthetubaguy - how do these work? | 09:34 |
| BobBall | Now they are in there when will we get comments etc? | 09:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | so... | 09:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | each subteam logically has two lists | 09:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | stuff the subteam wants to review | 09:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | and stuff it things is now ready to merge | 09:35 |
| sudipto | bauzas, Hi, thoughts on this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198972/ ? | 09:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | the idea is the later might eventually count as a +2 | 09:35 |
| BobBall | That's great for long term | 09:36 |
| sudipto | sorry johnthetubaguy | 09:36 |
| sudipto | wrong channel :( | 09:36 |
| BobBall | but short term I'm the only one on this subteam with existing knowledge of the code | 09:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | sudipto: no worries | 09:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, understood | 09:37 |
| BobBall | So short term we just need others (i.e. nova cores) to review whatever the status of the change | 09:37 |
| BobBall | When John Hua starts commiting code changes to nova I will of course review before putting in this list | 09:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | so you can say when its "ready to merge" yourself | 09:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | that could become a +2 | 09:37 |
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| BobBall | The changes that are in that list are ready for cores to review - hence them being in the list :) | 09:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 09:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | this is the bit thats not working well right now | 09:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | I need to keep pushing that | 09:38 |
| BobBall | OK | 09:38 |
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| BobBall | So - back to the question - how do we get reviews? :) What happens and when do we expect someone to comment on the changes? | 09:39 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193647/ hasn't had changes since 26th Jun but it seems that adding it to the priorities tracking hasn't encouraged core reviews | 09:40 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its the only method we have right now | 09:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, also ensuring the bug has the correct priority, etc | 09:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | its a general problem right now | 09:41 |
| BobBall | Well - do we need to be reminding cores regularly like we needed to before the priorities tracking was added? | 09:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | it happens every nova meeting | 09:42 |
| BobBall | Because if the priorities are being ignored then I guess that's the only option? | 09:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am going to send out another ML thread, but not sure folks always read those either | 09:43 |
| BobBall | OK | 09:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | out of interest, where is your patch on this list: | 09:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | http://5885fef486164bb8596d-41634d3e64ee11f37e8658ed1b4d12ec.r44.cf3.rackcdn.com/nova-openreviews.html | 09:43 |
| BobBall | The only reference to the priorities list seems to be "Make sure you review based on the priorities" - is that what you meant? | 09:43 |
| BobBall | So is it down to individual cores to look at the priorities list and decide what to review? | 09:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am asking all cores to prefer things on that etherpad | 09:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | we can't track that right now | 09:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | which makes me sad | 09:44 |
| BobBall | Yes; it is on that list | 09:44 |
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| johnthetubaguy | where is the question though, I am just checking | 09:44 |
| BobBall | Not high - number 113 | 09:45 |
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| BobBall | But is that list relevant, or is the priorities list relevant? | 09:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am just saying, other folks have been waiting longer | 09:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | its a problem, there is a long tail that is getting negelected | 09:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | I hope to work on that soon | 09:46 |
| BobBall | Of course - I'm not worried about waiting; I'm just trying to make sure that we're following the process that will mean we don't wait for longer than necessary by not following process | 09:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, so you are following the process | 09:46 |
| BobBall | I had understood or assumed that adding it to the priorities list it would be deemed a priority *grin* | 09:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am just worried its not working | 09:46 |
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| BobBall | But perhaps the priorities list is just another list that gets ignored? ;) | 09:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy | there is only one list | 09:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | at least, thats the idea | 09:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | its not really working | 09:49 |
| BobBall | The second list I was referring to was the one you pointed to with the length of time we've been waiting | 09:49 |
| BobBall | Anyway - let's move on | 09:49 |
| BobBall | #topic Bugs & QA | 09:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs & QA (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 09:49 | |
| BobBall | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=xenserver | 09:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats some stats I am generating for my own use to track things, but yeah, lets move on | 09:49 |
| BobBall | So - huazhihao has been working on a couple of bugs | 09:50 |
| BobBall | just to break him into OpenStack | 09:50 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/199372/ is just removing some unused files from devstack | 09:50 |
| BobBall | We'll also need other simple things to fix to give more introductions to the new starters | 09:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | huazhihao: by the way, have you seen this page with Nova specific getting started material: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/Mentoring | 09:51 |
| BobBall | so johnthetubaguy - if you have any thoughts on simple things that you'd like to see fixed in Nova please let me know and I can raise bugs and get one of the team working on it as a new starter task. | 09:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | it has links to things to start working on | 09:51 |
| BobBall | I mean in XenAPI | 09:51 |
| BobBall | no low hanging fruit in xenapi ATM | 09:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | I don't know of any, off hand | 09:52 |
| BobBall | If you hear or think of any please let me know | 09:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | there are some structural things that could do with work | 09:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | mostly around fixing volumes and BDM support | 09:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think thats a key weakpoint right now | 09:52 |
| BobBall | yup - but they aren't low hanging fruit really | 09:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | agreed | 09:52 |
| BobBall | I'll think of some work items that we want to get done | 09:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | I would recommend starting with non XenAPI stuff to get the hang of things | 09:53 |
| BobBall | 10:51 < BobBall> I mean in XenAPI | 09:53 |
| BobBall | Ooops - wrong paste | 09:53 |
| huazhihao | johnthetubaguy Yes I seen this page. | 09:53 |
| BobBall | #topic Open Discussion | 09:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 09:53 | |
| johnthetubaguy | huazhihao: cool, let me know if things are confusing in there, feel free to update it as you go :) | 09:53 |
| BobBall | Any opens peopel want to discuss? | 09:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | nothing from me right now | 09:54 |
| huazhihao | johnthetubaguy Thank you very much. I will. | 09:54 |
| BobBall | Anything from you huazhihao? Any questions for now? | 09:54 |
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| huazhihao | Bobball Nope. Thank you. | 09:55 |
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| BobBall | Ok - in which case we'll close ther | 09:55 |
| BobBall | Next meeting in 2 weeks time - 22nd July | 09:56 |
| BobBall | #endmeeting | 09:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 8 09:56:14 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-07-08-09.29.html | 09:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-07-08-09.29.txt | 09:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-07-08-09.29.log.html | 09:56 |
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| joehuang | hello, tricircle | 13:02 |
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| joehuang | hi zhipeng | 13:02 |
| zhipeng | hi joe | 13:02 |
| zhipeng | u r so early :P | 13:02 |
| gampel | hi | 13:02 |
| irenab | hi | 13:02 |
| zhiyuan | hi | 13:03 |
| joehuang | hi gampel, irena | 13:03 |
| zhipeng | shall we start the meeting earlier than scheduled ? | 13:03 |
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| saggi | hi | 13:03 |
| zhipeng | or should we just chat a little bit :P | 13:03 |
| zhipeng | to get to know each other | 13:03 |
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| saggi | :) | 13:03 |
| joehuang | hi saggi and zhiyuan | 13:03 |
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| saggi | hi joehuang | 13:04 |
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| joehuang | zhipeng, we can start meeting now | 13:05 |
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| zhipeng | okey | 13:05 |
| zhipeng | #startmeeting Tricircle | 13:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 8 13:05:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is zhipeng. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Tricircle)" | 13:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tricircle' | 13:05 |
| zhipeng | #topic Roll Call | 13:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Tricircle)" | 13:05 | |
| zhipeng | #info zhipeng | 13:05 |
| saggi | #info saggi | 13:05 |
| zhiyuan | #info zhiyuan | 13:05 |
| joehuang | #info joehuang | 13:06 |
| gampel | #info gampel | 13:06 |
| zhipeng | #info irenab | 13:06 |
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| zhipeng | anybody else ? | 13:06 |
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| joehuang | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/19BXf0RhkH8wEEymE2eHHqoDZ67gnzgvpr3atk4qwdGs/edit# | 13:06 |
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| zhipeng | #topic design doc discussion | 13:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "design doc discussion (Meeting topic: Tricircle)" | 13:07 | |
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| zhipeng | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/19BXf0RhkH8wEEymE2eHHqoDZ67gnzgvpr3atk4qwdGs/edit#heading=h.5r6zgqbiehsh | 13:07 |
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| zhipeng | please use the #info command when making a point :) | 13:08 |
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| joehuang | #info I found saggi has comment on my comment. The first one is the VM status. API interception and status cache is a good idea. How long for the cache time. | 13:09 |
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| saggi | joehuang: Depends on what is happening. gampel suggested we should also invalidate cache on certain commands. | 13:10 |
| saggi | like when VM creation ends invalidate the cache | 13:10 |
| joehuang | #info And one question for the cache is , if multiple VM be queried at the same time, can we fresh the status cache one by one or with one query api to cascaded Nova | 13:10 |
| saggi | IMHO cache refresh should always be done in the background. | 13:11 |
| saggi | Even if we invoked a refresh we should return stale data until we have an update or time out | 13:11 |
| saggi | in the case of timeout we should update status to something the makes it clear to the use that the status is unknown | 13:11 |
| joehuang | so there is one periodic polling task at the background to sync status | 13:11 |
| gampel | we will pass runtime queries to the cascading service as saggi said and maybe we could have few refresh options on trigger periodic etc | 13:11 |
| saggi | joehuang: yes | 13:11 |
| saggi | joehuang: Should be configurable through the cascade API | 13:12 |
| saggi | Since it's site related | 13:12 |
| joehuang | Could be | 13:12 |
| irenab | saggi: what is the data model managed by CascadingService? | 13:13 |
| saggi | I don't understand the question :) | 13:13 |
| saggi | what entities does it manage? | 13:13 |
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| gampel | we are in th process of defining the DB for the cascaded layer | 13:14 |
| irenab | Do you mean cascading? | 13:14 |
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| gampel | it should have the entities mapping | 13:14 |
| saggi | in general it should contain mapping data (global UUID to site UUIDs) and site related information. | 13:14 |
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| gampel | yes cascaded sorry the TOP layer | 13:14 |
| irenab | ok. When ready, please add it tho the doc | 13:15 |
| joehuang | the VM status polling should be carefully if some long lasting task is executing, for example, volume migration | 13:15 |
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| saggi | that is handled by the Task Exec | 13:15 |
| irenab | and what enitites will get UUID mappings | 13:15 |
| saggi | it will poll in appropriate interval while a specific task is running. | 13:15 |
| saggi | It's also true for starting a VM or creating a network. | 13:16 |
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| gampel | entities that we can not set their GUID on the bottom (cascaded) layer | 13:16 |
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| zhipeng | shall we just rephrase to top and bottom layer ? | 13:16 |
| saggi | +1 | 13:17 |
| irenab | yes :-) | 13:17 |
| zhipeng | it would be more easier to remember | 13:17 |
| joehuang | If we keep state machine in the cascading layer, be sure the polling task will not harm the state machine in the task | 13:17 |
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| gampel | +1 | 13:17 |
| joehuang | +1 | 13:17 |
| zhipeng | #info rephrase cascading/cascaded to Top/Bottom | 13:17 |
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| irenab | gampel: I guess it will be most of the entities, since majority generate uuid during resource creation | 13:18 |
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| gampel | yes unfortunately | 13:18 |
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| joehuang | vm, volume, backup, snapshot, even flavor, network,subnet,port, router... | 13:19 |
| saggi | yep | 13:19 |
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| gampel | Joe: you raised a requirement that is not supported in this design to be able to control the bottom from horizon on local site | 13:20 |
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| irenab | gampel: why to restrict it? | 13:21 |
| saggi | joehuang: Could you elaborate on the use cases. | 13:21 |
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| joehuang | yes. In OPNFV multisite project, the local APP manager need to be able to provision app even other sites failed | 13:21 |
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| gampel | But will he need to create resources ? | 13:21 |
| joehuang | yes, create new VM.volume at least | 13:22 |
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| gampel | Not network ? | 13:22 |
| saggi | joehuang: But what if he is missing the networks. Current configuration is reactive. | 13:22 |
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| joehuang | These two scenario can work independently, but not together | 13:22 |
| saggi | What two scenarios? | 13:23 |
| joehuang | Network too if needed | 13:23 |
| gampel | network is a shared resource and this make it more difficult to sync to all sites | 13:23 |
| joehuang | In the past, we often provide one scenario: multisite with one global API service which is provided by the top layer | 13:24 |
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| joehuang | This is what has been reflected in the design doc, all resource provision request comes from the top layer | 13:25 |
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| saggi | joehuang: Sow what comes from the bottom layer | 13:25 |
| saggi | sow=so | 13:25 |
| joehuang | On the other hand, another scenario, don't want the single top API layer | 13:25 |
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| joehuang | but still need the centralized service to provide cross neutron networking, image replication, security group replication, from one site to another site | 13:26 |
| saggi | joehuang: Without the top layer all the algorithms need to be built as distributed. | 13:27 |
| saggi | hmmm | 13:27 |
| gampel | the problem will be to sync the change made in one site horizontally to all other sites | 13:27 |
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| gampel | the current design was built with one TOP API in mind | 13:28 |
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| joehuang | to gampel: correct, the Nova/cinder/neutron API can still be called in each site seperatly | 13:28 |
| saggi | joehuang: What about just making the Top layer as distributed. You could just install it on every site. | 13:28 |
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| joehuang | only if some cross OpenStack function, will issue api calling to the centralized service | 13:28 |
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| gampel | It's only possib | 13:29 |
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| joehuang | so I suggest to make the newly introduced service to work in these two scenario | 13:29 |
| gampel | it is only reasonable if we introduce some constraints on which resource creation is allowed | 13:29 |
| saggi | joehuang: If we make the Top layer able to work on multiple sites. Using distributed database. | 13:30 |
| gampel | As far as we understand, getting it accepted by the openstack community is topmost priority | 13:30 |
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| gampel | is this correct? | 13:30 |
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| joehuang | yes | 13:30 |
| gampel | in that case, we will not be able to comply with what you're saying at the moment | 13:30 |
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| gampel | you need to understand that NFV and Openstack use cases are very different | 13:31 |
| gampel | and in many cases collide | 13:31 |
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| gampel | the OPNFV community does not understand this and that is why they face a lot of problems when coming to openstack | 13:31 |
| gampel | introducing changes into the underlying openstack will be rejected | 13:31 |
| gampel | we need to take a step back here | 13:32 |
| gampel | c | 13:32 |
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| gampel | clearly define the requirements and then think clearly what can be done | 13:32 |
| gampel | we do not design on irc | 13:32 |
| joehuang | for sure. no change to the underlyingOpenStck | 13:32 |
| gampel | you cannot keep the underlying openstack unchanged and yet sync changes back to the top | 13:32 |
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| irenab | maybe more advanced case, can be get bottom resources and allow to match them top one | 13:33 |
| saggi | We don't want bottom being aware of TOP | 13:33 |
| gampel | I suggest we just focus on the different use cases now, list the requirements and then see how to resolve the conflicts between openstack cloud and NFV | 13:33 |
| joehuang | the second scenario does not introduce change to the bottom openstack | 13:34 |
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| irenab | saggi: agree, thas why top will retrive the bottom, and user will match | 13:34 |
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| joehuang | absolutely "We don't want bottom being aware of TOP" | 13:34 |
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| irenab | I think it makes sense to add functional requirements section in the doc. It starts directly with design principles. | 13:35 |
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| irenab | So maybe few user stories will clarify the scope | 13:35 |
| gampel | that will be very hard to sync by pool mode , i think that we should limit the resource creation | 13:35 |
| gampel | irenab: i agree | 13:35 |
| joehuang | make sense to describe the requirement in the doc | 13:36 |
| zhipeng | I agree that certain constraints should be placed | 13:36 |
| joehuang | what is "limit the resource creation" | 13:36 |
| gampel | OK i can add you both as author | 13:36 |
| saggi | I also wouldn't like the user to directly access the bottom if it's being managed. | 13:36 |
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| zhipeng | not all scenarios of creation should necessarily be needed in Tricircle | 13:37 |
| zhipeng | joehuang | 13:37 |
| joehuang | Ok, I will also describe the second scenario in more detail | 13:37 |
| gampel | if we do not allow net create on the bottom layer just start stop create vm | 13:37 |
| saggi | if it's managed we want to have full control or it will be hard to make sense of a host's state on error flows | 13:38 |
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| gampel | maybe we could split the work | 13:39 |
| gampel | on the design | 13:39 |
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| joehuang | we can limit the content in the first stage, and make it work ASAP | 13:39 |
| gampel | we need use cases , requirements , and architect design | 13:39 |
| saggi | I would like to have the use cases written up | 13:40 |
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| saggi | gampel: +1 | 13:40 |
| zhipeng | +1 good idea | 13:40 |
| joehuang | +1 | 13:40 |
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| gampel | saggi and myself can go deeper on the POC and design building blocks | 13:41 |
| zhipeng | I would participate in the use case and requirements | 13:41 |
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| zhiyuan | me, too. use case and requirements | 13:42 |
| gampel | joehuang: i think that you are the most knowledge on the use cases | 13:43 |
| zhipeng | we could use your observations as well irenab | 13:43 |
| joehuang | ok, I'll also working on use case/ requirements/design part. The doc is already a good base for design | 13:43 |
| gampel | I will add you so you could edit the document | 13:43 |
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| joehuang | Can we co-work on the google doc just like etherpad? | 13:44 |
| gampel | yes | 13:44 |
| zhipeng | google doc is etherpad on steroid | 13:44 |
| gampel | another topic is the l2-gw | 13:44 |
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| gampel | we started looking at the API for the networking-l2gw and it need to be modified a bit | 13:45 |
| joehuang | Good. I think the major challenge is that we need to support the second scenario or not , or step by step | 13:45 |
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| joehuang | L2GW currently is for Neutron inside to outside | 13:46 |
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| joehuang | but not for cross -neutron | 13:46 |
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| gampel | it currently focused on another use case connect to HW | 13:46 |
| zhipeng | #agreed work split on design doc drafting, gampel and saggi on designing blocks, zhiyuan and zhipeng on use case/req, and joe on overall enhancement | 13:46 |
| joehuang | Agree | 13:46 |
| saggi | +1 | 13:47 |
| gampel | agree we need to split the req to openstack and Opnfv | 13:47 |
| zhiyuan | +1 | 13:47 |
| gampel | +1 | 13:47 |
| zhipeng | #agreed seperate req in opnfv from openstack | 13:48 |
| joehuang | We need enhancement on the L2GW api, but L2GW api itself is not merged into the trunk yet | 13:48 |
| zhipeng | that was supposed to be networking-tricircle right? | 13:48 |
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| joehuang | +1 | 13:49 |
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| zhipeng | gampel joehuang, Kyle just post new admin rules for networking-* repos, dun know if we would be affected | 13:49 |
| zhipeng | should be nothing but tagging | 13:50 |
| zhipeng | we should check it out to make sure tho | 13:50 |
| gampel | we want to use networking-l2gw but i am not sure if they will agree to support site to site tunnel creation we will try to start talking with them | 13:50 |
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| joehuang | that's important to have site 2 site suport on L2GW | 13:51 |
| joehuang | To zhipeng, what's the new rule | 13:52 |
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| zhipeng | joehuang not rule per se, check it out in the mailing list | 13:52 |
| joehuang | ok' | 13:53 |
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| joehuang | so let's continue work on the doc and have discussion in M-L? | 13:55 |
| saggi | sure | 13:56 |
| gampel | OK i it will be great to discuss offline your idea for local site control | 13:56 |
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| zhipeng | we should always use ml as frequent as possible | 13:57 |
| joehuang | yes. maybe I did not describe it very clear. in fact, the centralized service should have no function overlapping with each site. | 13:57 |
| joehuang | agree | 13:57 |
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| gampel | Ok lets discuss it in the ml | 13:57 |
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| joehuang | thanks, see you | 13:58 |
| gampel | thank you all bye | 13:58 |
| saggi | bye | 13:58 |
| joehuang | bye | 13:58 |
| zhipeng | thanks bye | 13:58 |
| zhipeng | #endmeeting | 13:58 |
| zhiyuan | bye | 13:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 8 13:58:53 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2015/tricircle.2015-07-08-13.05.html | 13:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2015/tricircle.2015-07-08-13.05.txt | 13:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2015/tricircle.2015-07-08-13.05.log.html | 13:59 |
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| kzaitsev_mb | shouldn't there be a doc teem meeting here now? Or have I mixed timezones again? | 14:06 |
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| kzaitsev_mb | =/ | 14:10 |
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| thingee | Not sure if we need a Cinder meeting today. there is no agenda items for today | 15:59 |
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| smcginnis | thingee: Any reminders or updates? | 16:00 |
| geguileo | And no announcements... | 16:00 |
| dulek | thingee: May we get ad-hoc 5 minutes talk/remainder about Versioned Objects? | 16:00 |
| tbarron | hi | 16:00 |
| thingee | I don't have any announcements. cross project is a bit quiet right now in terms of what people need to know about | 16:00 |
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| geguileo | dulek: Anything specific you want to remind us? | 16:01 |
| geguileo | dulek: I'm more than happy to listen | 16:01 |
| dulek | geguileo: Actually you're one who's reviewing the patches. | 16:01 |
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| rajinir_r | hi | 16:01 |
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| geguileo | dulek: XD | 16:01 |
| Swanson | hello | 16:01 |
| dulek | I've just wanted to encourage cores to do reviews in these. | 16:01 |
| rhe00_ | hi | 16:02 |
| dulek | Backup Object patch story tells us that we want to merge object patches early. | 16:02 |
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| geguileo | Yes, it would be great if we could merge the TZ bug fix patch | 16:02 |
| dulek | Because some bugs are hard to find in reviews. | 16:02 |
| dulek | And we need time to get them right. | 16:02 |
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| dulek | geguileo: Oh, yeah, that definitely should be merged soon. | 16:02 |
| thingee | rhe00_: where have you been? been trying to get a hold of you or whoever receives your CI emails from the contact listed in the wiki | 16:02 |
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| rhe00_ | I have been on vacation | 16:02 |
| geguileo | Because we are wasting gate time everytime someone rebases their patch that depends on that one | 16:02 |
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| dulek | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196071/ <- that's the important one for Objects work! | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: I should have the replication V2 first patch up today | 16:03 |
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| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:04 |
| thingee | jgriffith: were you going to do some additional illustration work with the capabilities bit? | 16:04 |
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| dulek | ConsistencyGroup, Service, CGSnapshot and Volume objects patches are ready for reviews. These are needed to achieve rolling upgrades. | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | thingee: yes, I plan on putting up a new patch for that as well | 16:04 |
| thingee | jgriffith: thank you! | 16:04 |
| akerr_ | did the meeting get officially started? The room topic doesn't seem to indicate we're recording | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | thingee: that probably won't be today though :( | 16:04 |
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| winston-d | akerr_: seeing the same | 16:05 |
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| thingee | akerr_, winston-d: nah no agenda for today | 16:05 |
| smcginnis | We were debating if meeting needed today. | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | negative, we never started an "official" meeting, no agenda, no announcements | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | yeah... what thingee said :) | 16:05 |
| winston-d | so no need for logs | 16:05 |
| thingee | alright, seeya all back in #openstack-cinder! | 16:06 |
| kaisers_ | Bye | 16:06 |
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| jungleboyj | Wooo hooo, time back. | 16:06 |
| winston-d | k | 16:06 |
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| geguileo | Bye | 16:06 |
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