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| ShillaSaebi | #startmeeting docteam | 13:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 13:01:25 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ShillaSaebi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 13:01 |
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| sc68cal | o/ | 13:01 |
| ShillaSaebi | hi everyone | 13:01 |
| Zucan | Hi | 13:01 |
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| ShillaSaebi | roll call | 13:02 |
| ShillaSaebi | hi Scott | 13:02 |
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| ShillaSaebi | hi Sean | 13:02 |
| sc68cal | hello | 13:02 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:02 | |
| ShillaSaebi | we haven't had a meeting for a bit because of the summit | 13:03 |
| ShillaSaebi | hope everyone had a good time in Vancouver | 13:03 |
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| Zucan | It was great :) | 13:03 |
| ShillaSaebi | RST conversions for the Install Guide, Cloud Admin Guide, HA Guide | 13:04 |
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| ShillaSaebi | i know the HA Guide is still in progress, there was a mini hackathon at the summit | 13:04 |
| ShillaSaebi | all the etherpads can be found here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Liberty/Etherpads#Documentation | 13:04 |
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| ShillaSaebi | there are also plans for helping out developers with documentation in their repos | 13:05 |
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| ShillaSaebi | i don't know if much progress has been made on that although i started working through some projects last week | 13:05 |
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| ShillaSaebi | anyone have any updates or anything to add? | 13:05 |
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| ShillaSaebi | for the install guide there is a spec waiting for review | 13:06 |
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| ShillaSaebi | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/183138/ | 13:07 |
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| ShillaSaebi | the Cloud admin guide conversion has also started, if anyone is interested you can get in touch with Brian or Joe | 13:07 |
| ShillaSaebi | you can sign up here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate#Cloud_Admin_Guide_Migration | 13:07 |
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| ShillaSaebi | If you want to jump on the boat for the HA guides you can get in touch with Matt or Meg | 13:08 |
| Zucan | Cool | 13:08 |
| ShillaSaebi | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/HA_Guide_Update | 13:08 |
| Zucan | Looking at the review | 13:08 |
| ShillaSaebi | cool | 13:08 |
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| ShillaSaebi | any questions/comments? | 13:08 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok moving along... | 13:09 |
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| ShillaSaebi | <topic> Install guides and Config Reference have now been branched for Kilo. To backport, commit to master with Backport: Kilo in your commit message. | 13:09 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic Install guides and Config Reference have now been branched for Kilo. To backport, commit to master with Backport: Kilo in your commit message. | 13:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Install guides and Config Reference have now been branched for Kilo. To backport, commit to master with Backport: Kilo in your commit message. (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:09 | |
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| ShillaSaebi | #topic Core updates | 13:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Core updates (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:10 | |
| ShillaSaebi | we have a new member for our core team | 13:10 |
| ShillaSaebi | everyone please welcome Darren Chan | 13:10 |
| Zucan | Welcome Darren :) | 13:10 |
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| ShillaSaebi | we also thank Summer Long and Bryan Payne for all their contributions, they have been removed from the core team and were great assets to the team | 13:12 |
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| ShillaSaebi | so those are the core changes | 13:12 |
| ShillaSaebi | any questions/comments? | 13:12 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok great | 13:13 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic bugs | 13:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:13 | |
| ShillaSaebi | please ask people to make sure that they are having bugs triaged/confirmed before working on them. We’ve had a couple recently where we had to squash a patch at the last minute because it was going to break something, and that’s not fun for anyone. | 13:13 |
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| Zucan | For documentation? | 13:14 |
| ShillaSaebi | This will also prevent unnecessary work | 13:14 |
| ShillaSaebi | yes | 13:14 |
| Zucan | What would have it broken? Just curious. | 13:14 |
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| ShillaSaebi | so people don't work on the same bug twice | 13:15 |
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| Zucan | oh, ok | 13:15 |
| ShillaSaebi | :) | 13:15 |
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| ShillaSaebi | #topic Liberty specs | 13:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty specs (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:16 | |
| ShillaSaebi | Liberty specs in review | 13:16 |
| ShillaSaebi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/docs-specs,n,z | 13:16 |
| ShillaSaebi | #link https://review.openstack.org/183138 Install Guide RST Conversion | 13:16 |
| ShillaSaebi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177934/ API Work | 13:16 |
| Zucan | What exactly is the purpose of the Liberty Install Guide Doc Spec? | 13:17 |
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| ShillaSaebi | converting the current guide to RST | 13:17 |
| Zucan | Ok. | 13:18 |
| ShillaSaebi | so halting all development on current install guide and converting to RST | 13:18 |
| ShillaSaebi | and as time and resources permit, updating the guide to be more current | 13:18 |
| Zucan | I know there is a -1 plus a bunch of comments, but I am not sure if the requirements of that doc has been met already or not. | 13:18 |
| ShillaSaebi | yeah it looks like theres some comments around splitting the change | 13:19 |
| ShillaSaebi | into a few | 13:19 |
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| ShillaSaebi | ok any other questions | 13:19 |
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| ShillaSaebi | alrighty moving along | 13:20 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic specialty teams | 13:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "specialty teams (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:20 | |
| ShillaSaebi | HA Guide - RST Underway: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+spec/improve-ha-guide | 13:20 |
| ShillaSaebi | Install Guides - Spec now up for review https://review.openstack.org/183138 | 13:20 |
| ShillaSaebi | User Guides - Cloud Admin Guide RST conversion now underway https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Migrate#Cloud_Admin_Guide_Migration | 13:21 |
| ShillaSaebi | Security Guide - No update, but needs love. Lana to touch base with Nathaniel. | 13:21 |
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| ShillaSaebi | API docs - Please look at the new spec posted above | 13:21 |
| ShillaSaebi | Networking Guide - Test & review. Blueprint/spec to be created for Liberty work | 13:21 |
| ShillaSaebi | Sean do you have any updates on the networking guide? | 13:21 |
| ShillaSaebi | I don't think we have anyone else here from the specialty teams | 13:21 |
| sc68cal | Only on the IPv6 side | 13:22 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok | 13:22 |
| Zucan | Is there a team for Ops Guides? | 13:22 |
| sc68cal | there's a meeting friday, nick chase will probably send an e-mail with a more detailed summary after | 13:22 |
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| ShillaSaebi | cool thank you Sean! | 13:22 |
| ShillaSaebi | so for the operations and architecture guide specialty teams, I will be leading that effort and need a team to help! | 13:22 |
| Zucan | Sign me up! | 13:23 |
| ShillaSaebi | we should look at maintaining the guides and making sure they are up to date | 13:23 |
| ShillaSaebi | thank you that would be gerat | 13:23 |
| ShillaSaebi | great* | 13:23 |
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| ShillaSaebi | I will send out more information, we need to set up a meeting time, form a team and get to work | 13:23 |
| Zucan | Okay, that sounds good. | 13:24 |
| ShillaSaebi | cool thanks Scott | 13:24 |
| ShillaSaebi | we had a couple other volunteers as well, I will reach out to them and send a doodle to see when the best time for our meetings will be | 13:24 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok moving along any questions? | 13:24 |
| Zucan | Nope. | 13:25 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic new core process | 13:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new core process (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:25 | |
| ShillaSaebi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/HowTo#Achieving_core_reviewer_status here is the new core reviewer selection process and the next round will be around 1 July. | 13:25 |
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| ShillaSaebi | #topic doc tools update | 13:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "doc tools update (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:26 | |
| ShillaSaebi | There is no update | 13:26 |
| ShillaSaebi | no news is good news right? | 13:27 |
| Zucan | I feel overwhelmed with that update... | 13:27 |
| ShillaSaebi | sorry to put too much on your plate | 13:27 |
| ShillaSaebi | without coffee first | 13:27 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic APAC Meetups | 13:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "APAC Meetups (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:27 | |
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| ShillaSaebi | Planning for an APAC OpenStack meet up in June, ping asettle & adahms | 13:28 |
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| ShillaSaebi | you can get more details from them on the meetup | 13:29 |
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| ShillaSaebi | also planning for an APAC Docs Swarm on 13-14 August, ping Suyog | 13:29 |
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| ShillaSaebi | ok thats all on the APAC meetups | 13:30 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic open | 13:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 13:31 | |
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| ShillaSaebi | we can allocate this time for some open discussion | 13:31 |
| ShillaSaebi | anything anyone wants to bring up? | 13:31 |
| Zucan | I don't have anything. | 13:31 |
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| ShillaSaebi | okie | 13:31 |
| ShillaSaebi | sounds good | 13:31 |
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| ShillaSaebi | next meeting will be June 17th same time | 13:32 |
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| ShillaSaebi | if nothing else then everyone have a great week | 13:32 |
| ShillaSaebi | see y'all soon! | 13:32 |
| ShillaSaebi | #endmeeting | 13:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 13:32:44 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-06-03-13.01.html | 13:32 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-06-03-13.01.txt | 13:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-06-03-13.01.log.html | 13:32 |
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| pshige | is there DocTeamMeeting here now? | 14:05 |
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| katomo | Hi, pshige! not started yet. | 14:07 |
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| katomo | Hi, loquacities. | 14:08 |
| pshige | katomo: hi! good evening! | 14:09 |
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| vincent_hou | hey cinder folks | 15:58 |
| opencompute | hi | 15:58 |
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| e0ne | hi | 15:59 |
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| tbarron | hi | 15:59 |
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| jungleboyj | Hello. | 15:59 |
| Swanson | Hello. | 15:59 |
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| jseiler | hi | 15:59 |
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| geguileor | Hi | 15:59 |
| DuncanT | thingee? | 15:59 |
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| thingee | one more minute | 15:59 |
| dulek | Hello! | 16:00 |
| thingee | oh now | 16:00 |
| thangp | o/ | 16:00 |
| thingee | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 16:00:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| ameade | \0/ | 16:00 |
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| tbarron | hi again | 16:00 |
| Swanson | Hello to the meeting minutes. | 16:00 |
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| vincent_hou | hi | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | Hello again. | 16:00 |
| hemna | hey | 16:00 |
| geguileor | Hi | 16:00 |
| eharney | hi | 16:00 |
| thingee | announcements... | 16:00 |
| dulek | hi | 16:00 |
| rajinir_r | hi | 16:00 |
| adurbin__ | hi | 16:00 |
| rhe00_ | hi | 16:00 |
| xyang1 | Hi | 16:00 |
| patrickeast | hi | 16:00 |
| scottda | hi | 16:00 |
| avishay | hello | 16:00 |
| thangp | hi | 16:00 |
| dannywilson | hi | 16:00 |
| thingee | #topic announcements | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| thingee | Liberty-1 is approaching | 16:01 |
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| thingee | I will start cutting blueprints on June 10 that do not have a patch up that is passing jenkins | 16:01 |
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| thingee | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/liberty-1 | 16:01 |
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| thingee | Better luck in L-2 | 16:01 |
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| asselin__ | hi | 16:01 |
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| thingee | #info Blueprints in L-1 will be cut if they do not have a passing patch posted by June 10th | 16:02 |
| dulek | By cutting you mean - moving to L-2? | 16:02 |
| ameade | not drivers right? | 16:02 |
| thingee | dulek: out of l-1. You can try for l-2 | 16:02 |
| ameade | thats still 12th? | 16:02 |
| thingee | #todo thingee to send to ML about blueprint cut | 16:03 |
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| asselin__ | #action thingee to send to ML about blueprint cut | 16:03 |
| thingee | asselin__: thanks | 16:03 |
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| thingee | heh | 16:03 |
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| thingee | also drivers, please read the ML post about deadlines for drivers. | 16:04 |
| deepakcs | Hi | 16:04 |
| thingee | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-May/064072.html | 16:04 |
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| thingee | June 15th | 16:04 |
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| thingee | I'm not going to repeat what's already in there, but that's a separate deadline from regular blueprints | 16:04 |
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| opencompute | http://www.openstack.org/blog/2015/05/deadline-for-new-cinder-volume-drivers-in-liberty/ | 16:05 |
| smcginnis | \o/ | 16:05 |
| ameade | kk ty | 16:05 |
| thingee | I will start an etherpad to track drivers | 16:05 |
| thingee | in review | 16:05 |
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| thingee | specs I will be approving by the end of this week.... | 16:05 |
| thingee | image caching https://review.openstack.org/182520 | 16:05 |
| thingee | and replication v2 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155644/ | 16:06 |
| thingee | speak up now | 16:06 |
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| thingee | and lastly don't forget about casual review friday, thanks to DuncanT | 16:06 |
| vincent_hou | I have one | 16:06 |
| vincent_hou | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186327/ | 16:06 |
| thingee | alright agenda for today | 16:06 |
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| thingee | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_meeting | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | vincent_hou: We are getting there. | 16:07 |
| vincent_hou | Thx | 16:07 |
| thingee | #topic 3rd Party CI - FC Passthrough - upstream now available | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "3rd Party CI - FC Passthrough - upstream now available (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:07 | |
| thingee | asselin__: hi | 16:07 |
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| asselin__ | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-June/065677.html | 16:07 |
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| asselin__ | just posted to the mailing list... | 16:07 |
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| asselin__ | just to let everyone know patrickeast and I have fc passthrough scripts avaialble | 16:07 |
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| smcginnis | asselin__: +1 | 16:08 |
| asselin__ | https://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/third-party-ci-tools/tree/provisioning_scripts/fibre_channel | 16:08 |
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| thingee | asselin__: is this communicated on the infra third party page or Cinder third party page? | 16:08 |
| asselin__ | nikeshm is probably the first 'new' person to use them on his driver | 16:08 |
| asselin__ | thingee, cinder FAQ | 16:08 |
| thingee | asselin__: perfect :) | 16:08 |
| asselin__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/tested-3rdParty-drivers#FAQ | 16:09 |
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| asselin__ | so just remember to go to the FAQ :) | 16:09 |
| asselin__ | that's it from me...just wanted to make it known | 16:09 |
| thingee | it's new and frequently asked already ;) | 16:09 |
| thingee | thanks asselin__ | 16:10 |
| asselin__ | big thanks to patrickeast for refactoring it to be consumable | 16:10 |
| thingee | and patrickeast ! | 16:10 |
| hemna | nice job guys | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | asselin__ and patrickeast Thanks guys! | 16:10 |
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| thingee | #topiic Volume status during migration | 16:10 |
| thingee | vincent_hou: jungleboyj hi | 16:10 |
| vincent_hou | Hi | 16:10 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: Howdy. | 16:10 |
| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186327/ | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | So, I think vincent_hou is making great progress proposing improvements to volume migration but avishay has raised a concern. | 16:11 |
| vincent_hou | I am proposing that we change the status of a volume to 'migrating' when it is migrating for the migration improvement. | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | ^^ want to get feedback from others on that. | 16:12 |
| thingee | why are comments in ps6 being ignored | 16:12 |
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| thingee | that's kind of annoying | 16:12 |
| vincent_hou | I like to avoid things like attempting to attach the volume while migrating. | 16:12 |
| thingee | two people have asked for there comments to be addressed. | 16:12 |
| thingee | their* | 16:12 |
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| DuncanT | So as a deployer, it would be really nice to be able to migrate transparently to the tenant | 16:12 |
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| vincent_hou | Avishay proposes not changing the volume status during migration and aborting a migration if a user attempts to attach/detach the volume. | 16:12 |
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| DuncanT | i.e. Avishay's approach | 16:13 |
| avishay | so migration is an admin operation and has to be because users don't know about backends | 16:13 |
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| avishay | if you expose the fact that a volume is being migrated, suddenly users become aware of backends and the abstraction breaks | 16:13 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: We have a 'retyping' status. How is this different? | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | Though it would also be nice to be able to stop a user getting in the way of a migration if I really need to move the volume like now | 16:13 |
| avishay | jungleboyj: the user initiates retype | 16:13 |
| hemna | avishay, +1 | 16:14 |
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| avishay | DuncanT: +1 | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | So setting the status to 'migrating' only during a --force would be ideal | 16:14 |
| avishay | DuncanT: agreed | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | For normal migrates, just abort | 16:14 |
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| avishay | DuncanT: or even better than migrating, "maintenance" | 16:14 |
| jungleboyj | Ahh... Ok. I am just concerned that allowing the user to cause an action initiated by the admin is dangerous. | 16:14 |
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| thingee | DuncanT: +1 this is nothing new of what we already said at the summit of just being ok with aborting | 16:15 |
| avishay | DuncanT: the user doesn't need to know why, just that it's temporarily unavailable for attach/detach | 16:15 |
| geguileor | If we don't use ING state then we would have to change the ING approach to locking | 16:15 |
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| jungleboyj | We are trying to make migration more robust and having something to abort seems to just be more fragile. Simple is better. | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | avishay: ++ | 16:15 |
| thingee | avishay: that seems simple to me | 16:15 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: I do like the idea of having a general 'unavailable' status. | 16:15 |
| jungleboyj | That could be useful else where. | 16:15 |
| hemna | geguileor, we should always be doing ING status checks in the API anyway | 16:16 |
| DuncanT | jungleboyj: Depends what you're trying to achieve... we often want to reballance or drain a server without users knowing | 16:16 |
| hemna | but we currently can't because of Nova now. | 16:16 |
| thingee | hemna: the problem is we don't have an ING for migrate | 16:16 |
| geguileor | hemna: maintenance is not ING state ;-) | 16:16 |
| thingee | hemna: that's the point of this proposal | 16:16 |
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| hemna | well, we kinda do...migration_status no ? | 16:16 |
| jungleboyj | geguileor: Maintaining. ;-) | 16:16 |
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| hemna | put the volume in 'something' status :) | 16:17 |
| geguileor | jungleboyj: Ok, just wanted to point that out before we agreed on the term :) | 16:17 |
| hemna | that's ING | 16:17 |
| vilobhmm | hemna : is this with regards to the idea that we were talking about the other day | 16:17 |
| jungleboyj | What about 'unavailable' ? | 16:17 |
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| jungleboyj | Though that brings up more questions, potentially then 'maintenance' | 16:17 |
| vilobhmm | hemna : just joined so wanted to know the context | 16:17 |
| avishay | the name of the state doesn't really matter | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | The point is, as an admin, I /really/ want to be able to do things like reballance without affecting the tenant | 16:18 |
| hemna | jungleboyj, well as long as the 'ing' state check also checks for unavailable | 16:18 |
| dulek | avishay: +1 | 16:18 |
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| avishay | DuncanT: +1, not only without affecting, without him knowing | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | maintainance mode means SLA affected | 16:18 |
| hemna | to prevent actions as well | 16:18 |
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| hemna | I'm ok with that | 16:18 |
| geguileor | DuncanT: +1 | 16:18 |
| mtanino | DuncanT: +1 | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | avishay: +1 | 16:18 |
| vilobhmm | avishay, DuncanT : +1 | 16:18 |
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| DuncanT | It really is a necessary function for a large cloud | 16:19 |
| thingee | I'm seeing a lot of agreement | 16:19 |
| smcginnis | hemna: unavailabling | 16:19 |
| hemna | yup | 16:19 |
| hemna | :P | 16:19 |
| avishay | thingee: scary right? | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: :-) | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | Which agreement are coming to? | 16:19 |
| geguileor | smcginnis: XD | 16:19 |
| vincent_hou | so something like "unavailable" for the volume status? | 16:19 |
| vincent_hou | during migration? | 16:19 |
| thingee | as jungleboyj raised, this can be used for others thing | 16:20 |
| avishay | vincent_hou: noooo | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | vincent_hou: No | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: Ok, I am glad that people like that idea but I don't feel like we are greeing on that for migration. | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah, that was what I as afraid of. | 16:20 |
| geguileor | Unavailable is frightening to users | 16:20 |
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| DuncanT | vincent_hou: Need to be able to do it without user knowing | 16:20 |
| avishay | vincent_hou: no state change normally, and abort if attach/detach. if the admin passes a special flag, then the volume goes to 'unavailable' or whatever state and then no attcah/detach is allowed. | 16:20 |
| rajinir_r | +1 for 'Maintaining' | 16:20 |
| vincent_hou | OK. | 16:21 |
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| DuncanT | vincent_hou: *maybe* a 'migrating' state for migrate --force, but that is less important than the silent migration | 16:21 |
| geguileor | avishay: +1 | 16:21 |
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| vincent_hou | DuncanT: It sounds OK to me. | 16:21 |
| geguileor | DuncanT: +1 | 16:21 |
| jungleboyj | avishay DuncanT So, we are going to allow a user to override what an admin has requested? | 16:21 |
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| DuncanT | jungleboyj: If the admin doesn't say --force, yes, absolutely | 16:22 |
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| geguileor | jungleboyj: If admin doesn't force it yes | 16:22 |
| rajinir_r | +2 for 'Migrating' | 16:22 |
| vincent_hou | I have the same concern as Jay has. | 16:22 |
| jungleboyj | Ok, that makes me queasy | 16:22 |
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| DuncanT | jungleboyj: It's nice to be able to kick off migrations without affecting SLAs or otherwise impacting the customer | 16:22 |
| avishay | think of it from the POV of the operator, not the developer :) | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | So, in the case a user requests and attachment we would stop the migration and delete the new volume that was being created. Throw some huge warning into the logs as to why the migration stopped/ | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: :-) | 16:23 |
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| avishay | jungleboyj: even info, not warning | 16:23 |
| DuncanT | jungleboyj: info | 16:23 |
| avishay | it's not a big deal, normal flow | 16:23 |
| thingee | sounds like an awful experience for ops if it's an emergency | 16:23 |
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| DuncanT | thingee: --force then | 16:24 |
| avishay | thingee: that's why you have the --force flag | 16:24 |
| geguileor | thingee: Then you would use --force | 16:24 |
| vincent_hou | One more issue is that when we do "retype", we already put "retyping" in the volume status. Shall we change that approach as well? | 16:24 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: DuncanT Ok, that seems odd to me, but you guys have more experience. | 16:24 |
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| avishay | vincent_hou: no, retype is a user-initiated action | 16:24 |
| thingee | piranhas in this room | 16:24 |
| jungleboyj | vincent_hou: No, sounds like that is different as it can be initiated by user. | 16:24 |
| avishay | thingee: :P | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | jungleboyj: It really is a common thing to want to move volumes off a 'hot' backend without affecting the user | 16:24 |
| geguileor | thingee: XD | 16:24 |
| hemna | I think unavailable makes sense | 16:24 |
| vincent_hou | OK. | 16:25 |
| thingee | unavailable .... in a cloud? | 16:25 |
| jungleboyj | DuncanT: Ok. | 16:25 |
| hemna | yup | 16:25 |
| thingee | not sure what I think about that | 16:25 |
| DuncanT | 'maintainence' might be better | 16:25 |
| thingee | yea | 16:25 |
| DuncanT | (give or take some spelling) | 16:25 |
| vincent_hou | OK. | 16:25 |
| thingee | ok, vincent_hou sounds like you got some feedback to go with | 16:25 |
| thingee | anything else? | 16:25 |
| vincent_hou | Thank you so much folks | 16:26 |
| thingee | #topic Status update on c-vol A/A efforts | 16:26 |
| vincent_hou | I will resolve the comments for this spec ASAP> | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status update on c-vol A/A efforts (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:26 | |
| jungleboyj | Thanks guys! | 16:26 |
| thingee | dulek: geguileor hi | 16:26 |
| vincent_hou | THank you folks. | 16:26 |
| dulek | hi! | 16:26 |
| geguileor | hi | 16:26 |
| dulek | (I'm on a mobile approaching some forest area, so may be disconnected any time) | 16:26 |
| thingee | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-active-active-vol-service-issues | 16:26 |
| thingee | ha | 16:26 |
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| * geguileor is the backup | 16:26 | |
| dulek | So we just wanted to gather updates from folks engaged in c-vol A/A efforts | 16:26 |
| vilobhmm | so i am working with a syzmon regarding https://review.openstack.org/#/c/183537/ | 16:27 |
| dulek | Let me start - me and an engineer from my team are developing Tooz locks implementation for Cinder. | 16:27 |
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| dulek | Right now we're in the process of testing it and looking for corner cases. | 16:28 |
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| vilobhmm | review is in progress for this effort | 16:28 |
| geguileor | So will it only change current locks or include new needed locks? | 16:29 |
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| geguileor | (new needed as in we see they are missing) | 16:30 |
| vilobhmm | its a proposal not a way to go for | 16:30 |
| vilobhmm | also do we need to open a bug and start working on fixing the nova-cinder interaction because i have been seeing it a lot lately that volume getting stuckin in "ing" state | 16:30 |
| DuncanT | I/we are looking at fixing up Nova to start catching some failures rather than trying to figure everything out in advance. Requires some substantial moving things round in Nova though | 16:30 |
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| vilobhmm | DuncanT : do we have a bug for it | 16:30 |
| hemna | DuncanT, https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1458958 | 16:30 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1458958 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Exceptions from Cinder detach volume API not handled" [Undecided,New] | 16:30 |
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| hemna | DuncanT, that's a start and needs to get handled | 16:31 |
| thingee | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1458958 | 16:31 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: I started on attach actually, but yeah | 16:31 |
| hemna | aaaaand no one has signed up to fixy that one yet :( | 16:31 |
| vilobhmm | i did assign myself now | 16:31 |
| vilobhmm | will work on it | 16:31 |
| hemna | but just in general, Cinder can't do 'ING' state checks now and return VolumeIsBusy exceptions now because of a bunch of those types of failures on the Nova side. | 16:32 |
| DuncanT | hemna: It is true of every nova call to cinder TBH | 16:32 |
| vilobhmm | hemna : agree | 16:32 |
| hemna | personally, I think we need to shore up the cinder API side and do 'ING' checks | 16:32 |
| vilobhmm | DuncanT : +1 | 16:32 |
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| vilobhmm | we need additional validation at the cinder API layer before procedding ahead and coming to know abt it at the manager layer …what does everyone think abt it | 16:33 |
| thingee | dulek, geguileor: so can we talk about what we would like to have for l-1? | 16:33 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: Just patch the client in nova to raise an exception at random one time in 4, then make nova handle it... can do the cinder API work afterwards | 16:33 |
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| geguileor | thingee: Progably a good idea :) | 16:33 |
| thingee | there's a lot rainbow and unicorn talk happening atm. | 16:33 |
| hemna | :) | 16:33 |
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| DuncanT | We can't change the cinder API until nova can handle the response, or things break even more than they do now | 16:34 |
| hemna | DuncanT, +1 | 16:34 |
| vilobhmm | ok | 16:34 |
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| thingee | DuncanT: ok lets start there. | 16:35 |
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| hemna | I had leeantho file that defect as an example of what happens when the Nova side doesn't compensate for VolumeIsBusy being sent back from Cinder. | 16:35 |
| thingee | who is looking into that? | 16:35 |
| thingee | who cares to help look at the nova side for catching failures? | 16:35 |
| hemna | I'd do it if I wasn't slammed at the moment | 16:35 |
| thingee | once we know who wants to take on that, we can track the patch posted and help review. | 16:35 |
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| DuncanT | We are just doing sprint planning, but hopefully us | 16:36 |
| hemna | *sigh* | 16:36 |
| thingee | ok no one so far | 16:36 |
| thingee | ... | 16:36 |
| hemna | everyone wants to work on the new shiny Cinder stuff and not fix these major issues :( | 16:36 |
| vilobhmm | I can also help hemna, DuncanT | 16:36 |
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| winston-d | thingee: i can take a look | 16:36 |
| dulek | Sorry, got disconnected... | 16:36 |
| thingee | hey look at that, winston-d to the rescue | 16:36 |
| hemna | winston-d, thank you. | 16:37 |
| hemna | I can help if possible. | 16:37 |
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| winston-d | hemna: cool | 16:37 |
| thingee | I would say at most point winston-d to the particular known failure areas. which is apparently every cinder call from nova | 16:37 |
| thingee | hemna, DuncanT ^ | 16:37 |
| hemna | we should ping jaypipes or jogo and get them up to speed with what we are trying to fix here from the Nova side. | 16:38 |
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| geguileor | winston-d: I'll be working on the tests to confirm all things that break | 16:38 |
| thingee | winston-d: if you come up with a patch next week or whenever, let us know so I can bring it up in the meeting and we can help review. | 16:38 |
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| hemna | getting some nova core's to buy off on this will help us push it through the nova side as well | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | Attach is the messiest piece to fix by the looks of it | 16:38 |
| winston-d | thingee: sure | 16:38 |
| dulek | Do we need any Cinder blueprints for that? | 16:38 |
| hemna | DuncanT, yup, for sure | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | Since it does some crazy inspection | 16:38 |
| dulek | And Nova's BP deadline is closing fast. | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | We'll need a nova BP for sure | 16:38 |
| jaypipes | hemna: I'm kinda swamped :( Perhaps ndipanov would be a good alternative? | 16:39 |
| DuncanT | Andrea in the nova team @HP is available I believe | 16:39 |
| hemna | jaypipes, thanks man. any help with just supporting with timely reviews would be great at this point. | 16:39 |
| ndipanov | big shoes to fill | 16:39 |
| thingee | jaypipes: we're talking about some try/catches in nova for cinder calls. pretty small stuff. | 16:39 |
| thingee | ndipanov: ^ | 16:39 |
| * ndipanov scrolls back | 16:39 | |
| thingee | if anyone cares about gate failures, seems like a good priority | 16:40 |
| winston-d | fwiw, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167815/ has been sitting there for 2 months | 16:40 |
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| hemna | ndipanov, for reference https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1458958 | 16:40 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1458958 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Exceptions from Cinder detach volume API not handled" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Vilobh Meshram (vilobhmm) | 16:40 |
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| xyang | we also have this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138664/, not sure how to proceed | 16:40 |
| dulek | So who will start with writing a BP for Nova? | 16:40 |
| jaypipes | vilobhmm: FYI, best not to assign yourself to a bug before pushing a patch for it. when you push a patch, it will auto-assign you to the bug if you reference the bug in your commit message. | 16:41 |
| hemna | do we need a Nova BP to fix a bug ? | 16:41 |
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| thingee | how descriptive does this bp need to be? We're catching potential exceptions. | 16:41 |
| dulek | I can volunteer if DuncanT will help me to understand relations there. | 16:41 |
| vilobhmm | jaypipes : sure | 16:41 |
| jaypipes | hemna: no, not unless the Nova API changes. | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | I'll start for attach, and get Andrea to input. | 16:41 |
| vilobhmm | thingee : I can help with the blueprint and the spec | 16:41 |
| ndipanov | hemna, thingee ok so what's the question | 16:41 |
| thingee | ndipanov: review the patch when it's posted. We're doing better try/catch of cinder calls from nova. | 16:42 |
| thingee | getting a sponsor | 16:42 |
| hemna | ndipanov, so we are just going to do some exception catching in the calls to Cinder. and need reviews when patches go up, so we can fix this. | 16:42 |
| ndipanov | thingee, sounds like a good idea - pls ping me | 16:42 |
| hemna | ndipanov, thank you!!! | 16:42 |
| thingee | ndipanov: thank you, I appreciate your time on helping with failures here. | 16:42 |
| dulek | Cool, this seem like we can fix that without a BP and spec? | 16:43 |
| jaypipes | I'll do my best to get to reviews. | 16:43 |
| thingee | ndipanov: I'll get cinder folks here to help verify things as well | 16:43 |
| thingee | jaypipes: thank you | 16:43 |
| ndipanov | it is somewhere on my todo list to move all of the detach stuff into nova/virt/block_device.py | 16:43 |
| ndipanov | but sadly hadn;t done that yet | 16:43 |
| thingee | vilobhmm: honestly I don't think this is a complicated bp, but DuncanT please help? | 16:43 |
| ndipanov | in that case we would have a single place where to catch those... | 16:43 |
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| thingee | ndipanov: yeah should be that one wrapper file nova has for cinder | 16:44 |
| thingee | nova.volumes.cinder or something | 16:44 |
| thingee | winston-d: ^ | 16:44 |
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| thingee | whew | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | thingee: It isn't just try/catch, since nova tries to figure out stuff for itself that needs to be re-arranged so it can be skipped once cinder returns more | 16:44 |
| hemna | ndipanov, +1 | 16:44 |
| xyang | ndipanov: what about failure during attach? | 16:44 |
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| hemna | the trick is to get Nova to bail gracefully when a volume is busy | 16:45 |
| thingee | DuncanT: lets start with the try/catch issues for l-1 | 16:45 |
| thingee | fast approaching | 16:45 |
| hemna | I think that's probably the part where we'll need help | 16:45 |
| geguileor | thingee: +1 | 16:45 |
| winston-d | thingee: agree | 16:45 |
| dulek | thingee: But Nova has BP deadline for L-1. | 16:45 |
| ndipanov | xyang, attach is done using the classes so it's wrapped inside a block_device.attach() | 16:45 |
| dulek | thingee: I mean L-1 is BP deadline. | 16:45 |
| thingee | dulek: I understand and I got people to handle that ;) | 16:45 |
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| thingee | dulek: vilobhmm and DuncanT will work together on the bp | 16:45 |
| thingee | how complicated is a bp on try/catch? honestly | 16:46 |
| dulek | thingee: Agreed! :) | 16:46 |
| thingee | ok thanks everyone | 16:46 |
| vilobhmm | thingee: cool..will do that | 16:46 |
| ndipanov | detach is sadly inlined in the compute manager callbacks | 16:46 |
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| thingee | #action DuncanT vilobhmm to work on bp for try/catch issue catching on calls to cinder from nova | 16:46 |
| ndipanov | but this doesn't affect you guys | 16:46 |
| winston-d | dulek: these are fundmentally bugs, bp isn't really necessary | 16:46 |
| thingee | #action winston-d to work on patch(es) to do try/catch handling on calls to cinder from nova | 16:46 |
| thingee | #agreed this is a good starting point for l-1 being around the corner | 16:46 |
| thingee | #topic Third party CI requirements for re-branded drivers | 16:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Third party CI requirements for re-branded drivers (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:47 | |
| thingee | DuncanT: hi | 16:47 |
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| thingee | DuncanT: and thanks for bringing this up | 16:47 |
| DuncanT | You can't just catch the eception, since you're too caught up in nova to be able to /do/ anything... so you're pretty much where you are today (broken) but with a log message | 16:47 |
| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187853/ | 16:47 |
| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187707/ | 16:47 |
| thingee | so these are rebranded drivers... basically inheriting off other driver classes. | 16:48 |
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| thingee | #idea should rebranded drivers also have CI's or do they just piggy-back off the real driver CI's? | 16:48 |
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| thingee | asselin__ anteaya ^ | 16:49 |
| opencompute | I think they should | 16:49 |
| * asselin__ is thinking | 16:49 | |
| patrickeast | where do we draw the line then? | 16:49 |
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| asselin__ | honestly...not sure why we need those drivers... | 16:49 |
| thingee | patrickeast: that's what I was thinking. What if they make some modifications. | 16:49 |
| smcginnis | These are trivial inheritence, so I see little value. But I could see the same situation where more functionality is introduced that would need it. | 16:49 |
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| thingee | they could override a method or two | 16:50 |
| smcginnis | asselin__: That is a very good point. | 16:50 |
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| DuncanT | asselin__: branding | 16:50 |
| thingee | asselin__: good point | 16:50 |
| asselin__ | yes...buy why do we need branding inside cinder? | 16:50 |
| DuncanT | asselin__: The internals are the same, but the marketing, pricing, etc is very different | 16:50 |
| thingee | not exactly the problem cinder is trying to solve IMO. | 16:50 |
| smcginnis | I can see branding as a strong marketing requirement. But completely new drivers seems excessive. | 16:50 |
| DuncanT | asselin__: they are effectively different products in the consumer's eyes | 16:50 |
| asselin__ | brand the hardware. use the common driver | 16:50 |
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| smcginnis | Especially since config options don't get "rebranded". | 16:51 |
| smcginnis | BUt I see the need. | 16:51 |
| winston-d | asselin__: so their customers won't notice what they have is actually sth else if not looking close enough? | 16:51 |
| smcginnis | Though I don't really like it. | 16:51 |
| opencompute | In this case, I see config options are rebranded | 16:51 |
| DuncanT | All these two patches do is rename some config options TBH | 16:51 |
| smcginnis | opencompute: Oh, right. | 16:51 |
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| thingee | IMO it's not solving anything. Sure, you use a different dot path with your products name, but that doesn't solve the problem over the product you're rebranding being in the config option name /description | 16:51 |
| thingee | and log messages | 16:51 |
| smcginnis | At least they are complete duplication of the same driver code. | 16:52 |
| tbarron | smcginnis: for now | 16:52 |
| smcginnis | I do appreciate that they tried to minimize the impact. | 16:52 |
| smcginnis | tbarron: Right. | 16:52 |
| Swanson | They need a CI. If you bring a driver you bring a CI. | 16:52 |
| dulek | So isn't valid point for us - if you want branding, then introduce brand new driver, without inheritance? | 16:52 |
| dulek | And the CI? | 16:52 |
| Swanson | If that is too much pain then don't bring the driver. | 16:52 |
| smcginnis | Swanson: Fair point. | 16:52 |
| dulek | Swanson: +1 | 16:52 |
| patrickeast | Swanson: +1 | 16:52 |
| DuncanT | Asking for CI is not totally unreasonable | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | The inheritence model is definitely better than cut n paste | 16:53 |
| asselin__ | I'm also leaning on needing ci. | 16:53 |
| tbarron | DuncanT: implement CI#2 via sed :-) | 16:53 |
| opencompute | True, because we cannot control how much changes went in to new driver | 16:53 |
| cFouts | o/ | 16:53 |
| winston-d | can they create a symbol link to a inherited ci? | 16:53 |
| patrickeast | if we require the ci, they are treated as regular drivers and future reviewers dont have to decide how much of a modification warrants adding CI testing | 16:53 |
| * DuncanT leans for not needing CI for what is there, but is entirely accepting of others voting differently | 16:54 | |
| DuncanT | patrickeast: Valid point | 16:54 |
| winston-d | opencompute: we can controll, we review the patches and approve them. | 16:54 |
| thingee | The point of us asking for a CI from some vendors besides verifying they're stuff works was for them to actually be committed in some way to OpenStack and actually understanding how things work. Some people had no idea how to deploy OpenStack before this requirement. IMO, this rebrand thing introduces another way for drive by driver patches and not be | 16:54 |
| thingee | involved with the community | 16:54 |
| winston-d | opencompute: if we are unhappy about driver change, -2 and ask for really ci | 16:54 |
| opencompute | I like the idea of inherited CI | 16:54 |
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| opencompute | so parent driver changes require both CI +1s | 16:55 |
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| thingee | I'm still a -1 on these rebranded drivers. It's not a solving anything. | 16:55 |
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| dulek | opencompute: I don't see how that should work. Child driver can change things. | 16:55 |
| asselin__ | I'm also -1 on rebranded drivers. | 16:56 |
| thingee | see my comments earlier about config options and log messages being confusing of the product you're attempting to rebrand | 16:56 |
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| opencompute | Child driver only needs it own CI to pass | 16:56 |
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| DuncanT | thingee: The log messages get rebranded correctly | 16:56 |
| thingee | DuncanT: how so? | 16:56 |
| opencompute | Parent driver needs parent and children CI to pass | 16:56 |
| DuncanT | thingee: The only 'brand' in there are the config option names and the class names, all of which are changed in the child | 16:57 |
| thingee | three minute warning | 16:57 |
| dulek | 3 minutes warning | 16:57 |
| thingee | DuncanT: what about config options that mention the parent product? | 16:57 |
| Swanson | It solves a problem for a vendor and a customer. I've dev X so I get dev X driver. Not dev Y driver. Log and options should properly reflect that it is dev X tho or there is no point. | 16:57 |
| thingee | name/description | 16:57 |
| Swanson | So a complete rebranding or nothing. | 16:57 |
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| opencompute | Log should include vendor name | 16:58 |
| thingee | as asselin__ mentioned earlier, what if they make one method override? we would need to draw the line somewhere. | 16:58 |
| opencompute | only 2 minutes | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | thingee: Those config options are redone in the child AFAICT. Maybe I need to read the patches again | 16:58 |
| thingee | it just seems complicated for little gain from the community | 16:58 |
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| winston-d | thingee: then we -2 to those changes and ask for ci | 16:58 |
| thingee | are any of these maintainers of the rebrand here? | 16:59 |
| thingee | in this meeting? | 16:59 |
| thingee | .... | 16:59 |
| smcginnis | I don't see nikesh around. | 16:59 |
| thingee | and there's my point | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | thingee: Assuming the rebranding works correctly, it is less complicated to see the name of the array in the config file, rather than some other competitor's array... | 16:59 |
| thingee | the smallest involvement as possible | 16:59 |
| thingee | to get your product in | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | He is time-zone challenged today I believe | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | He's been in the meeting before | 17:00 |
| asselin__ | he was in sanjose | 17:00 |
| thingee | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 17:00:12 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-06-03-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-06-03-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| DuncanT | I believe he's travelling | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-06-03-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
| thingee | thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| opencompute | I have a Tintri Cinder Volume driver review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185148/ | 17:00 |
| geguileor | Thanks!! | 17:00 |
| opencompute | that I added to agenda | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks all! | 17:00 |
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| asselin__ | opencompute, you can ask in -cinder | 17:01 |
| opencompute | it’s passed CI/Jenkins, all comments addressed | 17:01 |
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| opencompute | DuncanT, thingee, please approve if you have time to take a look | 17:04 |
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| stevebaker | #startmeeting heat | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jun 3 20:01:26 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | #topic rollcall | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| asalkeld | o/ | 20:01 |
| pas-ha | o/ | 20:01 |
| dgonzalez | hi | 20:01 |
| skraynev_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| rpothier | o/ | 20:01 |
| karolyn | o/ | 20:02 |
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| jruano | hi | 20:02 |
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| zaneb | \o | 20:02 |
| skraynev_ | tag is closed ... | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | #topic Adding items to agenda | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
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| stevebaker | The alt meeting time went really well, good turnout | 20:03 |
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| ryansb | great | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282015-06-03_2000_UTC.29 | 20:03 |
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| zaneb | that makes a nice change :) | 20:03 |
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| zaneb | and as a bonus, I didn't have to get up ;) | 20:04 |
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| asalkeld | lucky you 6am here | 20:04 |
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| stevebaker | anything for the agenda? | 20:05 |
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| skraynev_ | I have one question and one request for review :) | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | #topic heat reviews | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "heat reviews (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:05 | |
| stevebaker | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-reviews | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | skraynev_: chuck it in :) | 20:05 |
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| stevebaker | There is only one proposed fix for a High bug, and it may be a bit stale. I'll ask Jamie to refresh it when he is about | 20:07 |
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| pas-ha | oh, there is a new bug | 20:07 |
| pas-ha | looks like our kilo gate is wedged | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | and if there are some tripleO guys about to help with the use case in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134848/ | 20:08 |
| kairat_kushaev1 | yep | 20:08 |
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| skraynev_ | stevebaker: agenda is updated | 20:09 |
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| stevebaker | asalkeld: should an external resource even allow properties to be set? | 20:09 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker: well it's a pain to remove and add them - I thought | 20:09 |
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| stevebaker | asalkeld: ah, so they'll just be ignored | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | also messy to remove the validation that defines the required stuff | 20:10 |
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| asalkeld | (so yes, just ignore) | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | i won't call handle_update etc.. | 20:10 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: in a pre-convergence world I think it would have to | 20:10 |
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| zaneb | to establish the baseline for a future update if you make it a non-external resource again | 20:11 |
| zaneb | (disclaimer: I haven't read the spec) | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | speaking of, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180022 is the only convergence review I'm aware of, and we could possibly try switching it on once it lands | 20:11 |
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| zaneb | hahaha :) | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | we might want to actually run it :-O | 20:12 |
| stevebaker | i mean obviously nothing will work... | 20:12 |
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| * asalkeld still got to try that, maybe today | 20:12 | |
| stevebaker | switch on locally to fix all the things I mean | 20:12 |
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| asalkeld | yeah, I'll see what happens today | 20:12 |
| zaneb | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163132/ is also convergence | 20:13 |
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| stevebaker | zaneb: got it | 20:13 |
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| pas-ha | or we can have an do-not-merge-me patch that switches it on and see how func.gate reacts to new code being merged :) | 20:14 |
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| stevebaker | #topic High priority bugs | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | pas-ha: yeah, should be easy | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "High priority bugs (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:14 | |
| zaneb | +1 | 20:14 |
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| stevebaker | If you refresh the agenda the item is hyperlinked. Too long to paste here | 20:15 |
| stevebaker | I just wanted to do a quick scan of High,Critical bugs which haven't been started yet, just in case someone is inspired to work on one | 20:16 |
| zaneb | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.importance%3Alist=CRITICAL&field.importance%3Alist=HIGH&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.structural_subscriber=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.u | 20:16 |
| zaneb | sed=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search | 20:16 |
| zaneb | you're right, it *is* too long | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | ... or bump it down to Medium | 20:16 |
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| ryansb | zaneb: o.O | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: whhhhhhhy | 20:16 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: it sounded like a sort of challenge | 20:16 |
| skraynev_ | btw: https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1388047 looks like a part of existed spec. | 20:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1388047 in heat "Validation should catch unavailable resources" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Tetiana Lashchova (tlashchova) | 20:17 |
| skraynev_ | I mean conditionally registered resources... | 20:17 |
| pas-ha | yes it is | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | Does anyone want to tackle https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1459837 ? It is really affecting TripleO | 20:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1459837 in heat "Error messages from nested stacks are awful" [High,Triaged] | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | i can try fix the error messages I messed up | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | bug 1459837 | 20:17 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker: how long until L1? | 20:18 |
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| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule | 20:18 |
| zaneb | I wanna say like 4 weeks | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | June 23-25 | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | more like 3 | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | ok thanks | 20:19 |
| zaneb | 3 is like 4 | 20:19 |
| * asalkeld bookmarking that | 20:19 | |
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| stevebaker | ok, moving on | 20:20 |
| skraynev_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1433340 - what about this bug? | 20:20 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1433340 in heat "stack actions do not guarantee that the stack will be placed into IN_PROGRESS by the time they return" [High,Triaged] | 20:20 |
| stevebaker | #topic update about functional test for heatclient | 20:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "update about functional test for heatclient (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:20 | |
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| skraynev_ | I have not seen it on gates couple weeks :) | 20:21 |
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| skraynev_ | ok. this item from me. | 20:21 |
| zaneb | yeah, that one would be *really* nice to fix | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld, skraynev_: Is that a duplicate? It sounds like the one we closed yesterday | 20:21 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker: that's similar, but not the same | 20:22 |
| skraynev_ | according to the results for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180539/ - I suppose, that tests pass :) | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | that's getting into in-progress | 20:22 |
| skraynev_ | so if somebody review it, it will be good, I plan to move experimental job to gate (non voting ) | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | nice skraynev_ | 20:23 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: I have not re-check it. may be it works ? | 20:23 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: ^ it's about bug :) | 20:23 |
| skraynev_ | not about functional tests | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | skraynev_: yeah, lets make it non-voting. I wasn't even aware of the experimental job | 20:24 |
| skraynev_ | stevebaker: ok. so will upload a patch for it. | 20:24 |
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| skraynev_ | that is all for this item ;) | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | #topic question about destroy behavior of outputs | 20:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "question about destroy behavior of outputs (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:25 | |
| skraynev_ | again from me. | 20:25 |
| skraynev_ | so the idea, that sometimes using outputs may be crucial for stacks. | 20:26 |
| skraynev_ | if we have template with 100 vms and 100 outputs values | 20:27 |
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| skraynev_ | which asks ip or id of these vms | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | skraynev_: do you mean that outputs are not available during IN_PROGRESS? | 20:27 |
| skraynev_ | no | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | it's slow? | 20:28 |
| skraynev_ | that it can not be scale for big cloud | 20:28 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: right | 20:28 |
| pas-ha | for a big stack you mean | 20:28 |
| skraynev_ | we asked all these instances and it fails with timeout error | 20:28 |
| skraynev_ | pas-ha: big cloud with big stacks :) | 20:28 |
| pas-ha | heat stack show becomes a tiny ddos | 20:28 |
| skraynev_ | pas-ha: right | 20:28 |
| asalkeld | what timeout comes into play? | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | skraynev_: is each one resulting in a nova GET? | 20:29 |
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| pas-ha | stevebaker, yes | 20:29 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: 1 minute I suppose | 20:29 |
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| skraynev_ | stevebaker: correct | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | at least one heat has the value it is memoized for the duration of the operation | 20:29 |
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| asalkeld | well we do have the caching on the way | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | skraynev_: so ID shouldn't result in a nova call, since IP is so often requested maybe we should be storing it in the Server resource_data | 20:30 |
| zaneb | I have sometimes thought that convergence should have like a dummy resource (or something, it could be a separate db table) for caching outputs | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | hashtag fixedbyconvergence | 20:30 |
| zaneb | so they'd be part of the dependency graph | 20:31 |
| skraynev_ | stevebaker: it solves only this case, but if it will be something else (another resources with another attribute) | 20:31 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: no, it would require some extra development | 20:31 |
| pas-ha | it seems it would be better to implement sort-of yielding thing in stackresource (like we have for check_*_thing) when it asks for outputs of its child resources | 20:31 |
| skraynev_ | stevebaker: "hashtag fixedbyconvergence" lol ))) | 20:31 |
| zaneb | (not currently planned) | 20:31 |
| pas-ha | that would smear the ddosing | 20:31 |
| pas-ha | oer time | 20:31 |
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| pas-ha | but timeout problem will be left for sure | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | no easy solution here... | 20:32 |
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| skraynev_ | zaneb: I like idea with separate table and caching. but I don't think that it will be soon or I am wrong? | 20:33 |
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| asalkeld | skraynev_: we have dogpile caching on the way | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | not sure we need more mechanisms | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | (for caching) | 20:33 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: yeah. Also we discussed some batching way ... | 20:33 |
| zaneb | skraynev: no, you're correct | 20:33 |
| zaneb | it won't be soon | 20:34 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb: convergence Phase 3 ? :) | 20:34 |
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| pas-ha | skraynev_, batching would help in create/update, not outputs resolution | 20:34 |
| pas-ha | when no actual resource action is running | 20:35 |
| zaneb | skraynev_: lol. well it would be possible to implement once phase 1 is working. phase 2a? | 20:35 |
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| skraynev_ | asalkeld: may be. We may try to extend caching solution on this issue | 20:35 |
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| stevebaker | #topic open discussion | 20:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:36 | |
| asalkeld | i think that would be a good start skraynev_ | 20:36 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb: I thought, that get_reality and some related stuff if phase 2a, so I agree with 2b :) | 20:36 |
| zaneb | sold | 20:36 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: I just afraid about right approach, when we should update data in cache | 20:37 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: on each request or periodically... | 20:37 |
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| asalkeld | skraynev_: not sure | 20:37 |
| asalkeld | skraynev_: maybe on stack-check? | 20:37 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb: :) | 20:37 |
| stevebaker | #chair zaneb | 20:38 |
| openstack | Current chairs: stevebaker zaneb | 20:38 |
| zaneb | dammit | 20:38 |
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| stevebaker | I need to go soon, so zaneb can endmeeting | 20:38 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: but we speak about stack-show... | 20:38 |
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| zaneb | skraynev_: so I thing in convergence-world they should be refreshed when you trigger a converge | 20:38 |
| skraynev_ | stevebaker: ok. bye | 20:39 |
| zaneb | s/thing/think/ | 20:39 |
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| asalkeld | skraynev_: doesn't dogpile have an aging (you can set a timelimit on the caching)? | 20:39 |
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| kairat_kushaev1 | asalkeld: Yes, it has | 20:39 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: memcache does assuming you are using that as the backend | 20:39 |
| zaneb | other backends not so much iirc | 20:39 |
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| asalkeld | so the next thing that needs it will have to go get it | 20:40 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: but we want get actual info on async stack-show request | 20:40 |
| kairat_kushaev1 | asalkeld: you can also invalidate some values using the dogpile | 20:40 |
| kairat_kushaev1 | invalidate = make old | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | kairat_kushaev1: ok, thanks | 20:40 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb: so manually by command, and for other commands should be used values from DB ? | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | skraynev_: that's also a good idea, trying to parallel'ise the show output | 20:41 |
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| zaneb | skraynev_: in convergence world that makes sense to me | 20:42 |
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| skraynev_ | asalkeld, zaneb: but the one same issue - huge umbers of request in the same time (after converge or after stack-show) | 20:43 |
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| zaneb | well with convergence we'll not be doing anything that we wouldn't have to anyway to do the converge | 20:44 |
| skraynev_ | hm... may be update cache step by step ... | 20:44 |
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| asalkeld | skraynev_: we should cache the attributes after create/update when we get the status | 20:44 |
| zaneb | so I say we burn that bridge when we come to it | 20:44 |
| zaneb | it's probably less polling-intensive than the create | 20:45 |
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| skraynev_ | zaneb: sounds good | 20:45 |
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| skraynev_ | asalkeld: and then update it in separate task periodically .. | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | skraynev_: honestly not sure, i am not usually a fan of periodic tasks | 20:46 |
| pas-ha | asalkeld, +1 | 20:47 |
| asalkeld | they become messy to scale | 20:47 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: ok. I think we will try to use caching + upload a spec for deep discussion | 20:47 |
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| asalkeld | i'd suggest on demand | 20:47 |
| pas-ha | I would say cache every attr but "show" after create/update | 20:47 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: got it. I tend to agree :( | 20:47 |
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| pas-ha | they usually are not the thing which is changing in-band by itself | 20:48 |
| skraynev_ | pas-ha: not sure, what you mean by "show" after ... | 20:48 |
| pas-ha | and out-of band changes - we wash our hands | 20:48 |
| pas-ha | "show" attribute | 20:48 |
| zaneb | -2 on periodic tasks | 20:49 |
| pas-ha | which is everything an object has | 20:49 |
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| skraynev_ | pas-ha: what about updating cache ? | 20:49 |
| pas-ha | on demand if really needed. by check_reality for example | 20:50 |
| zaneb | pas-ha: +1, and I wish we had implemented it that way from the beginning. slightly nervous about changing it now though | 20:50 |
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| * asalkeld heading off .. sorting kids for school | 20:52 | |
| pas-ha | about "show" attr - it 1) might be too huge, 2) it *might* contain things that change in-band , you never now for every client | 20:52 |
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| skraynev_ | pas-ha: and it's again do not solve issue with several requests in the same time.... however may it works successively now... | 20:53 |
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| skraynev_ | pas-ha: unpredictable world!! | 20:53 |
| skraynev_ | :) | 20:53 |
| pas-ha | skraynev_, several requests? | 20:53 |
| skraynev_ | pas-ha: one request - one output (which references on property not stored in Heat db) | 20:54 |
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| zaneb | any other discussion? | 20:55 |
| pas-ha | if people put "show" attr to hard use - they should ask us to add a separate attr for what they are using it | 20:55 |
| skraynev_ | zaneb: none from me :) | 20:55 |
| pas-ha | IMO | 20:55 |
| zaneb | otherwise as your appointed overlord^W chair, I'm shutting this thing down :) | 20:56 |
| pas-ha | zaneb, i'm good :) | 20:56 |
| kairat_kushaev1 | Guys, anyone noticed that stable/kilo is broken | 20:56 |
| kairat_kushaev1 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1461592 | 20:56 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1461592 in heat "stable\kilo is broken due to version conflict error" [Undecided,New] | 20:56 |
| kairat_kushaev1 | That's all from my side | 20:56 |
| skraynev_ | I think that pas-ha mentioned it above, but not sure about solution | 20:57 |
| zaneb | Importance: Critical | 20:57 |
| pas-ha | sorting out global requirements for kilo I guess | 20:57 |
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| zaneb | ok, thanks everyone | 20:58 |
| zaneb | #endmeeting | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 20:58:51 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-06-03-20.01.html | 20:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-06-03-20.01.txt | 20:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-06-03-20.01.log.html | 20:58 |
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