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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 5 08:00:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
| anteaya | say hello if you are here for the third party meeting | 08:00 |
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| lennyb | Hi anteaya | 08:06 |
| anteaya | hello lennyb | 08:07 |
| anteaya | how are things? | 08:07 |
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| lennyb | pretty good. making some code reviewing and cleaning in our CI repo. | 08:08 |
| anteaya | great | 08:08 |
| anteaya | reviewing code for which project? | 08:08 |
| lennyb | Jenkins Job files of CIs | 08:09 |
| anteaya | nice | 08:09 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:09 |
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| anteaya | well it seems to be a quiet meeting | 08:45 |
| anteaya | so I will wrap it up | 08:46 |
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| anteaya | note the May 19th meeting is cancelled | 08:46 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 08:46 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 5 08:46:41 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-05-05-08.00.html | 08:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-05-05-08.00.txt | 08:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-05-05-08.00.log.html | 08:46 |
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| mestery | hi | 13:59 |
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| blogan_ | hi | 13:59 |
| johnbelamaric | hi | 14:00 |
| Sukhdev | Hello - Good Morning | 14:00 |
| fawadkhaliq | hello! | 14:00 |
| rkukura | hi | 14:00 |
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| yamahata | hello | 14:00 |
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| jlibosva | hi | 14:00 |
| carl_baldwin | hi | 14:00 |
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| mlavalle | hi | 14:00 |
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| HenryG | hi | 14:01 |
| jckasper | hi | 14:01 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 14:01 |
| pc_m | hi | 14:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 5 14:01:28 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:01 |
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| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:01 |
| xgerman | hi | 14:01 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| mestery | Kilo was released last week! | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/kilo/2015.1.0 | 14:02 |
| anteaya | o/ | 14:02 |
| anteaya | congratulations | 14:02 |
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| mestery | Thank you to everyone who contributed patches and worked hard to make the Kilo release of Neutron a success! | 14:02 |
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| fawadkhaliq | Congratulations! | 14:02 |
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| mestery | I encourage folks to look at the Release Notes and update with anything we've missed. | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Kilo#OpenStack_Network_Service_.28Neutron.29 | 14:02 |
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| dougwig | O/ | 14:03 |
| johnsom | o/ | 14:03 |
| mestery | Even though we needed an RC3, I applaud the testing everyone did at the end. That helped us catch a handful of nasty issues before we released. Well done! | 14:03 |
| mestery | #info Neutron meeting will be cancelled for the next 3 weeks due to the Summit. Everyone take a break and enjoy the extra hour. | 14:03 |
| mestery | #info We'll resume on 6/2/2015. | 14:04 |
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| mestery | i don't know about everyone else, but I could use a break. | 14:04 |
| sballe | o/ | 14:04 |
| mestery | #info Reminder about our mid-cycles this summer | 14:04 |
| mestery | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/060713.html | 14:04 |
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| * blogan_ gives mestery a kit kat | 14:04 | |
| mestery | Any other announcements anyone would like to share? | 14:04 |
| mestery | blogan_: lol | 14:04 |
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| mestery | One other thing I should mention: | 14:06 |
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| mestery | The Neutron Stadium is about to grow a bit as we welcome some stackforge projects onto our field | 14:06 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/governance+status:open,n,z | 14:06 |
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| mestery | Thanks to russellb for starting that conversation and proposing stackforge/ovn as the initial project to make hte leap :) | 14:06 |
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| russellb | o/ | 14:06 |
| * mestery looks around for enikanorov_ | 14:07 | |
| russellb | i've got some more ideas around that and tags | 14:07 |
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| russellb | but proposal is still in my head, and not gerrit yet | 14:07 |
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| mestery | russellb: Cool! I'll be happy to review any new tags you propose to the governance repo :) | 14:08 |
| mestery | OK, I don't see enikanorov_, so lets skip Bugs for now and move on. | 14:08 |
| mestery | #topic Docs | 14:08 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:08 | |
| mestery | #undo | 14:08 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x8cc6e10> | 14:08 |
| mestery | And I don't see emagana either ... because he said he wouldn't be here. :) | 14:08 |
| mestery | #topic Liberty Design Summit | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty Design Summit (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:09 | |
| mestery | I pushed out design summit schedule out yesterday | 14:09 |
| mestery | #link https://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/type/design+summit/neutron#.VUfOLReozVR | 14:09 |
| mestery | If you are leading a session, you should ahve received an email from me. | 14:09 |
| mestery | Same for the lightning talks | 14:09 |
| mestery | I even created etherpads for all our sessions | 14:09 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Liberty/Etherpads#Neutron | 14:09 |
| mestery | #link http://sched.co/3BNR Neutron Lightning Talks | 14:09 |
| mestery | One other note: For the contributor meetup on Friday, we have the morning session in a fishbowl room | 14:10 |
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| mestery | So if your design summit proposal was not accepted, I encourage you to collaborate with people Friday morning in our fishbowl room | 14:10 |
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| mestery | Since it holds 200-300 people, there will be plenty of room for eveyrone | 14:10 |
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| * mestery notes the coffee is ready for those slouching with their heads down who where waiting for it | 14:11 | |
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| * mestery is also shocked no one has any questions or feedback on the Design Summit | 14:11 | |
| mestery | Did I do that good of a job? | 14:11 |
| mestery | I'm suspicious | 14:11 |
| blogan_ | yes! | 14:11 |
| xgerman | yes - good job! | 14:11 |
| mestery | blogan_: Whew! | 14:12 |
| sc68cal | lgtm | 14:12 |
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| Sukhdev | great job, mestery | 14:12 |
| mestery | I think you'll notice I'm opening up the Neutron stadium roof in Vancouver, as I've given some time for new projects joining us (Octavia, OpenDaylight, and OVN in particular) | 14:12 |
| markmcclain | mestery: looks good | 14:12 |
| HenryG | Can the "Work Session" titles be augmented with the topic? | 14:12 |
| mestery | HenryG: Nope, and that's on purpose from ttx :) | 14:13 |
| mestery | HenryG: Those rooms only hold 25 people or so | 14:13 |
| HenryG | cool | 14:13 |
| mestery | So we want to discourage casual people from dropping in | 14:13 |
| HenryG | +1 | 14:13 |
| mestery | In fact, I'm going to be interested to see how htis works out | 14:13 |
| blogan_ | are all fish bowl rooms 200-300 people capacity? | 14:13 |
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| mestery | blogan_: Yup, that's my understanding | 14:13 |
| ajo | sorry, I joined late, and I'm almost finished reading, mestery , good work! ;) +1 | 14:14 |
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| mestery | Please note there is a session on Tuesday in the cross-project track about nova-network/neutron, and a nova session Thursday from 5:20-6:00 on the same. | 14:14 |
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| mestery | We'll use the former to collect input from ops, and the latter to firmly nail down the plan for Liberty | 14:15 |
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| neiljerram | Sounds good | 14:15 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Per your and devananda's request, we have an Ironic session as well for bare metal integration with neutron. | 14:15 |
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| mestery | Sukhdev: I mean, a Neutron slot for discussing that | 14:15 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: Thanks - I am working with Ironic team on this - will prepare etherpad and share the link later this week | 14:16 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Please use the etherpad I created to save yourself time :) | 14:16 |
| mestery | And thanks Sukhdev! | 14:16 |
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| Sukhdev | mestery: Ironic team is interested in hosting a session in Ironic side for this as well | 14:16 |
| mestery | Does anyone have any questions about the Design Summit or other items related to our shared time together in Vancouver? | 14:17 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Cool! | 14:17 |
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| ajo | no, but it's nice to see we've plenty of time for working sessions this time :) | 14:17 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: Yes, I will use your etherpad - thanks | 14:17 |
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| mestery | I'm looking forward to seeing everyone in 2 weeks! | 14:18 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move to Open Discussion | 14:18 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 14:18 |
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| mestery | I didn't see much more on the agenda, so please, if you ahve something to bring up, the floor is all yours :) | 14:18 |
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| watanabe_isao | mestery: about the etherpad you mentioned above, is it for the summit? | 14:19 |
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| mestery | watanabe_isao: YEs, this link (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Liberty/Etherpads#Neutron) has etherpads for all of our sessions pre-created | 14:20 |
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| mestery | watanabe_isao: Please use those to adds not to the sessions. I encourage everyone to add things there pre-Summit | 14:20 |
| mestery | And we'll of course take notes during the sessions there as well. | 14:20 |
| Sukhdev | mestery: I want to share something - it is really an announcement | 14:20 |
| watanabe_isao | mestery: Thank you for the link. | 14:20 |
| mestery | watanabe_isao: yw :) | 14:20 |
| ajo | mestery, silly question, what's the length of lightning talks? :) | 14:20 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Please do! | 14:20 |
| mestery | ajo: 5 minutes, and it's a good question! | 14:20 |
| ajo | cool :) | 14:20 |
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| pcm_ | mestery: In advance of the summit, what areas do you see as top priorities for Neutron in Liberty (or is this listed somewhere)? | 14:21 |
| Sukhdev | L2 Gateway API is ready for prime time - I tested it on Arista HW to integrate SW and HW Vteps | 14:21 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Wow, very cool! | 14:21 |
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| ajo | Sukhdev, nice | 14:21 |
| Sukhdev | Folks should give it a spin - it is really cool - L2 GW team did wonderful job | 14:22 |
| rossella_s | mestery Just wanted to say that I am working at the restructure l2 agent blueprint. It didn't make it for kilo but I hope to get it early in liberty. Thanks everybody who reviewed the patches and new reviews are very welcome! | 14:22 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: awesome :) | 14:22 |
| rossella_s | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/neutron+branch:master+topic:bp/restructure-l2-agent,n,z | 14:22 |
| mestery | rossella_s: Yes, I've seen those! Thanks for your awesome work there! | 14:22 |
| rossella_s | mestery my pleasure | 14:22 |
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| mestery | pcm_: I'd like to see us land IPAM early in Liberty, and I'd like to see us figure out QoS and maybe even some other NFV related items. We laid the foundation for a lot of this in Kilo. | 14:23 |
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| mestery | pcm_: I'd also like to see us come up with a validation suite for third-party CIs and really focus on cleaning that up a bit. | 14:23 |
| ajo | +1 :-) | 14:23 |
| mestery | pcm_: If kevinbenton and blogan (with guidance from markmcclain) are still up for it, moving from our custom WSGI to pecan may be nice too. | 14:24 |
| mestery | pcm_: And kevinbenton's RBAC work will be nice as well. | 14:24 |
| mestery | pcm_: Those are just off the top of my head :) | 14:24 |
| pcm_ | mestery: not much at all... easy peasy! :) | 14:24 |
| mestery | lol | 14:24 |
| pcm_ | mestery: thanks | 14:24 |
| HenryG | IPv6 Prefix Delegation is targetted for Liberty-1 | 14:24 |
| mestery | pcm_: Sure! | 14:25 |
| mestery | HenryG: Yup | 14:25 |
| ajo | looking at the specs: also flavor framework | 14:25 |
| blogan_ | mestery: im still up for it, probably won't have much time to put much focus on it until the summit and after though | 14:25 |
| mestery | blogan_: Excellent! Once kevinbenton wakes up he'll read the backscroll and hopefully catch up with you too :) | 14:26 |
| ajo | and python bindings to use ofctl in python (yamamoto) | 14:26 |
| mestery | ajo: Yup | 14:26 |
| mestery | I'm hoping someone maybe decides to add support for pyroute2 into ip_lib as well :) | 14:26 |
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| mestery | That would be cool and would speed things up quite a bit | 14:26 |
| HenryG | API microversioning and killing off extensions (where is salv-orlando?) | 14:26 |
| ajo | mestery, the issue with that is privilege elevation, I guess | 14:26 |
| mestery | ajo: Right, we'd still have issues there, but not having to shell out would save us a ton of time on each call | 14:27 |
| ajo | HenryG, true | 14:27 |
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| ajo | mestery I totally agree on that | 14:27 |
| haleyb | mestery: yes, pyroute2 would be good, i'd be happy to help | 14:27 |
| haleyb | and having the maintainer reach out is goodness | 14:27 |
| pcm_ | HenryG: Is salv-orlando the person to ask general questions about extensions? | 14:28 |
| mestery | haleyb: Excellent! Since it's dual licensed under Apache2 now, we can likely use it. We'll have to sort out any dependencies, but it's looking positive. | 14:28 |
| mestery | haleyb: Exactly :) Thanks! | 14:28 |
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| HenryG | pcm_: yes, salv-orlando is the API dictator | 14:29 |
| pcm_ | :) | 14:29 |
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| mestery | OK, lets call this one early and give folks 30 minutes back. | 14:29 |
| ajo | haleyb, I thought of it once, may be it's possible to dynamically extend the rootwrap daemon, to expose APIs we plug in (like an interface to pyroute2) | 14:29 |
| * anteaya is amazed | 14:29 | |
| mestery | Thanks again for everyone's awesome work! Neutron is made all the better by everyone's teamwork! | 14:29 |
| pcm_ | mestery: Thanks for the priority info. | 14:29 |
| mestery | We'll see you all in 2 weeks in Vancouver! | 14:29 |
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| blogan__ | adios | 14:29 |
| Sukhdev | OK - I can go back to sleep :-) | 14:29 |
| mestery | And remember: No meetings until 6/2/2015 on IRC. | 14:30 |
| mestery | Thanks folks! | 14:30 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:30 |
| ajo | mestery, looking forward to see you all in Vancouver | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 5 14:30:02 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:30 |
| xgerman | bye | 14:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-05-05-14.01.html | 14:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-05-05-14.01.txt | 14:30 |
| pcm_ | bye | 14:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-05-05-14.01.log.html | 14:30 |
| rkukura | bye | 14:30 |
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| ajo | bye!! ;) | 14:30 |
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| jlibosva | bye | 14:30 |
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| markmcclain | ajo: possibly or just have the agent start with root privs fork small and drop to normal user.. python has built in RPC mechs that we could use to make it easier to pass data between parent and child | 14:31 |
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| markmcclain | bye | 14:31 |
| ajo | markmcclain that sounds good too | 14:31 |
| ajo | probably simpler | 14:32 |
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| bauzas | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 15:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 5 15:05:19 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 15:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 15:05 |
| edleafe | o/ | 15:05 |
| bauzas | \o | 15:05 |
| bauzas | aloha, sorry for having missed out the start | 15:05 |
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| edleafe | no worries - on a call for another meeting now anyway | 15:06 |
| bauzas | let's wait for a few other peers - unless I just bored them | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | tic tac | 15:08 |
| * alaski lurking | 15:08 | |
| edleafe | tic tock | 15:08 |
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| * edleafe thinks of mints when I see 'tic tac' | 15:08 | |
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| bauzas | :) | 15:09 |
| bauzas | lots of peers there | 15:09 |
| bauzas | ok, starting but it should be quick | 15:09 |
| bauzas | since I expect no real debate :) | 15:09 |
| bauzas | #topic Liberty specs | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty specs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 15:09 | |
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| bauzas | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Gantt/liberty | 15:10 |
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| bauzas | so this page ^ is a little out-to-date, I'll discuss with n0ano to see how we can update it | 15:10 |
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| bauzas | most of the BPs we target for Lib are in | 15:11 |
| bauzas | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-summit-ideas | 15:11 |
| bauzas | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/allocation-ratio-to-resource-tracker => https://review.openstack.org/173252 (sbauza)https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/request-spec-object => https://review.openstack.org/173316 (sbauza)https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/resource-objectshttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/make-resource-tracker-use-objectshttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/shared-s | 15:11 |
| bauzas | oh man, sorry for the wrong paste | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | #info if people have BPs they want to include in the scheduler effort, please add them in the etherpad (L98) so we can review that before the Summit | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | nothing really in progress from my POV, I'm tighly following https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76234/ as the first step for RequestSpec object | 15:14 |
| bauzas | will discuss with danpb to see when he plans to upload a new update | 15:14 |
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| bauzas | okay, anything else to mention about specs ? | 15:15 |
| bauzas | (silence) | 15:16 |
| edleafe | nope | 15:16 |
| bauzas | ok, moving on | 15:16 |
| bauzas | #topic Vancouver design summit | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver design summit (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 15:16 | |
| bauzas | nothing really important from my POV again, just has to work on a spec before the summit | 15:17 |
| bauzas | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/shared-state-scheduler is not having a spec yet | 15:17 |
| bauzas | I remember n0ano was interested in discussing on cross-project sessions | 15:17 |
| edleafe | bauzas: I feel a lot will come after the discussions | 15:18 |
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| edleafe | Still too much up in the air now | 15:18 |
| bauzas | agreed | 15:18 |
| bauzas | just looking at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCTZBJKCMZ2xBhglnuK3ciKo3E8UMFo5S5lmIAYMCSE/edit to see if anything related to us | 15:19 |
| edleafe | Line 28 | 15:19 |
| bauzas | oh | 15:19 |
| bauzas | rightr | 15:19 |
| bauzas | let's see the outcome then | 15:20 |
| bauzas | I honestly doubt it would be accepted, but that's good anyway for discussing | 15:20 |
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| edleafe | I see that as a refinement of the whose request spec object/ claim object pattern | 15:20 |
| edleafe | s/whose/whole | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: not sure I follow you | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: oh | 15:21 |
| bauzas | edleafe: well, yeah, it's related to if a resource needs to be claimed | 15:22 |
| edleafe | bauzas: how to design the objects to represent any type of resource | 15:22 |
| bauzas | edleafe: but IMHO all of that is related to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/resource-objects at some point | 15:22 |
| bauzas | without having that BP implemented, that sounds a little premature IMHO | 15:22 |
| bauzas | anyway | 15:23 |
| edleafe | bauzas: I think it will make it more robust so that it requires less refactoring later | 15:23 |
| bauzas | edleafe: that's just chicken-and-egg | 15:23 |
| edleafe | bauzas: not really | 15:23 |
| bauzas | edleafe: let's work on implementing bp/resource-objects, we could refine later | 15:23 |
| bauzas | anyway | 15:24 |
| edleafe | understanding other types of resources means less refinement needed later | 15:24 |
| bauzas | let's move on unless someone has a thought ? | 15:24 |
| bauzas | edleafe: the spec is approved, so there are little options to change the direction | 15:24 |
| bauzas | but I don't want to debate much about that spec, it was enough done during Kilo :D | 15:25 |
| edleafe | specs can be amended and re-approved | 15:25 |
| edleafe | :) | 15:25 |
| bauzas | edleafe: well, the situation is clear : we need to implement that spec - and possibly amend it | 15:25 |
| edleafe | yep | 15:26 |
| bauzas | edleafe: but at least, we need to implement it | 15:26 |
| bauzas | anyway for anyway | 15:26 |
| bauzas | let's move on | 15:26 |
| bauzas | #topic open discussion | 15:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 15:26 | |
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| bauzas | let them speak or forever hold, should I say ? | 15:27 |
| * edleafe hears crickets | 15:27 | |
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| * bauzas hears that too | 15:28 | |
| bauzas | #endmeeting | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:28 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 5 15:28:41 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:28 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-05-05-15.05.html | 15:28 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-05-05-15.05.txt | 15:28 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-05-05-15.05.log.html | 15:28 |
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| * ayoung sneaks in | 17:57 | |
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| * marekd amakarov was just behind ayoung, couldn' miss him. | 17:58 | |
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| dstanek | it's about that time ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, bknudson, breton, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, topol, wanghong | 17:59 |
| gyee | gyee watches ayoung's back | 17:59 |
| ayoung | dstanek, you running things today? | 17:59 |
| dstanek | our fearless leader is on a spotty connection so i'll be running this meeting! | 17:59 |
| raildo | \o | 17:59 |
| dstanek | this should be a quick one | 17:59 |
| gyee | \o | 17:59 |
| marekd | \o/ | 17:59 |
| amakarov | o/ | 17:59 |
| henrynash | howdy! | 18:00 |
| ayoung | famous last words | 18:00 |
| dolphm | \o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | dstanek: o/ | 18:00 |
| marekd | dstanek: hope so | 18:00 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:00 |
| david8hu | \o | 18:00 |
| ericksonsantos | \o | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: nice album that by Al Stewart | 18:00 |
| dstanek | ayoung: going to attempt it :-) first time cat herding | 18:00 |
| * geoffarnold \o | 18:00 | |
| ayoung | dstanek, I already have soemthing to add to the agenda | 18:00 |
| * ayoung editing now | 18:00 | |
| * geoffarnold big Al Stewart fan | 18:00 | |
| marekd | dstanek: ok, it's not gonna be short meeting :P | 18:00 |
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| dstanek | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 5 18:01:20 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dstanek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| dstanek | #topic Reminder: No Meeting 5/19 or 5/26 (Summit and Tuesday post summit) | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: No Meeting 5/19 or 5/26 (Summit and Tuesday post summit) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| dstanek | the topic says it all. unless there are complaints i'll move on | 18:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
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| marekd | dstanek: should be 'and' in between the dates! | 18:02 |
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| dstanek | i'll take that as a nobody cares! | 18:02 |
| david8hu | I hope everyone had a nice Star Wars day yesterday | 18:02 |
| dstanek | #topic Midcyle Meetup Wiki Page | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcyle Meetup Wiki Page (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| dstanek | yay mid-cycle! | 18:02 |
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| dstanek | has everyone had a chance to look it over? | 18:03 |
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| dstanek | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/KeystoneLibertySprint | 18:03 |
| ayoung | Don't all edit at once | 18:03 |
| dstanek | ayoung, morganfainberg: anything new to report? | 18:04 |
| gyee | need a section on Boston hotspots :) | 18:04 |
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| bknudson | better register before the attendance cap is hit | 18:04 |
| dolphm | #racetoregister | 18:04 |
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| gyee | we need to register?! | 18:05 |
| ayoung | gyee, we'll have that taken care of | 18:05 |
| dstanek | already a wiki markup fail! | 18:05 |
| ayoung | there is some interest in having us at the OpenStack Boston Meetup, which is that weekn, ednesday I think | 18:05 |
| topol | o/ | 18:05 |
| dolphm | registration in FIFO, so if the attendance cap is hit, just start taking people off the top of the list to make room | 18:05 |
| ayoung | http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-Boston/ | 18:05 |
| ayoung | Def not a hot spot | 18:05 |
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| raildo | there is some travel support program to midcycle? :P | 18:06 |
| gyee | dolphm, ++ | 18:06 |
| ayoung | Heh...It looks like he added us to the schedule already | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | "Keystone project team members in the house! We are working to secure a special open mic session with members of the OpenStack Keystone project. Details coming soon." | 18:06 |
| dstanek | looks like date/time and location are still solid and we are just waiting for hotel info | 18:06 |
| gyee | ayoung, bars, nightclubs | 18:06 |
| ayoung | I'll push on that | 18:06 |
| david8hu | raildo, feel free to start biking north :) lol | 18:07 |
| ayoung | #action ayoung to get hotel info for midcycle | 18:07 |
| dstanek | gyee: i can't wait to see you dancing at a nightclub | 18:07 |
| raildo | david8hu, so, I'll start today \o/ | 18:07 |
| gyee | dstanek, guanum style | 18:07 |
| topol | no one else scared what type of club gyee would goto? | 18:07 |
| lhcheng | raildo: we'll provide you support in spirit :) | 18:07 |
| dstanek | topol: ! i haven't see you around these parts in a long time | 18:08 |
| amakarov | topol, chess club? 0_o | 18:08 |
| topol | dstanek. been on the road show. Finally back | 18:08 |
| dstanek | is there anything else we need to do or document to make it easier for people to get approval? | 18:08 |
| raildo | lhcheng, thank you! ^^ | 18:08 |
| dstanek | hotel is the obvious one, but ayoung just actioned himself for that | 18:08 |
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| lbragstad | ayoung: will you send that information out on the mailing list once you get it? | 18:09 |
| ayoung | yep | 18:09 |
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| dstanek | ok, i'm excited about Boston, but moving on | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | lbragstad, actually, probably will limit it to adding a link to that page and pinging the people registered | 18:10 |
| topol | dstanek, my family doesnt recognize me either :-) | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | ayoung: that works | 18:10 |
| dstanek | topol: road show usually == hair loss and frowns | 18:10 |
| ayoung | moving on.... | 18:11 |
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| dstanek | lbragstad: i'm sure we'll be talking about it in meetings and such shortly after the update | 18:11 |
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| dstanek | #topic First Pass on Summit Sessions | 18:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "First Pass on Summit Sessions (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:11 | |
| dstanek | #link https://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/type/design+summit/Keystone | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | I/ | 18:11 |
| dstanek | has everyone had a change to look over the proposed schedule for Keystone events? | 18:11 |
| ayoung | sortof | 18:12 |
| bknudson | lots of work sessions. that doesn't sound super fun | 18:12 |
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| dstanek | i know it's a pain since you have to go into each one | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | I'm here sortof | 18:12 |
| marekd | dstanek: it's mostly Work session | 18:12 |
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| ayoung | I thought we had an etherpad with the session proposals. Have we overloaded that? | 18:12 |
| marekd | dstanek: how work sessions are going to be structured? | 18:12 |
| dstanek | marekd: yes it is | 18:12 |
| bknudson | hopefully we'll actually get stuff done during the work sessions | 18:13 |
| bknudson | git pull before the session | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: the ether pad was some of what I based things on. Most of the work sessions will be open. | 18:13 |
| dstanek | marekd: i'm assuming similar to how we do mid-cycles so that we can get real things done while in person, but morganfainberg may have more specific plans | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | So we can use the ether pad for those. | 18:13 |
| marekd | dstanek: cool! | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | We also have one more fishbowl and work sessio. Still tbd | 18:13 |
| ayoung | lets get the proposed topics at least in the Work Session titles | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | We cannot change work sessio. Titles | 18:14 |
| ayoung | bleh | 18:14 |
| dstanek | ayoung: yes, getting a list of possible sessions would be great | 18:14 |
| topol | I hope those *other* projects dont steal our tablkes and signs this time | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | topol: work sessions are a dedicated room. | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | No tables. | 18:14 |
| topol | yay! | 18:14 |
| ayoung | We need a Keystone banner | 18:14 |
| dstanek | i think the etherpad is a good start at that | 18:14 |
| gyee | topol, me and you are going to move bodies this time | 18:15 |
| bknudson | are we expecting developers from other projects to show up at our work sessions? | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | Work sessions are in lieu of the tables. | 18:15 |
| bknudson | as needed | 18:15 |
| gyee | if our table is occupied | 18:15 |
| dstanek | ayoung: we need a logo | 18:15 |
| david8hu | Feel free to use my hotel room :) | 18:15 |
| topol | gyee, I can be the muscle. yes | 18:15 |
| bknudson | they all look like they're pretty specific to keystone | 18:15 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson: yes. If we want a specific group to cross over we can add another track. | 18:15 |
| ayoung | can you now, topol? | 18:15 |
| bknudson | except for office hours... are other projects doing office hours? | 18:15 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson: I just put office hours as a "generic" session. | 18:16 |
| dolphm | bknudson: to work with us, or against us? | 18:16 |
| bknudson | by the end of the week we'll have nothing left for the mid-cycle? | 18:16 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yay! | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | I wanted a way to know I hadn't scheduled a specific thing. | 18:16 |
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| dstanek | morganfainberg: can we add a bit to the 'Keyston: Work session' titles? | 18:16 |
| dstanek | like 'Keystone: Work session: Documenation' for https://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/event/644a88dfa5feefaa99913440c7871e53#.VUkJAdN3lTY | 18:17 |
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| dstanek | of course correcting for my terrible spelling | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek: nope. We cannot change the work session titles. | 18:17 |
| bknudson | we need to get the docs people to attend that one. | 18:18 |
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| morganfainberg | I added the docs track to the work sessio. For documentation. | 18:18 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: ok, bummer; i'm going to scrape our session and make it a little easier to read at a glance | 18:18 |
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| gyee | dstanek, they are *mandatory* sessions | 18:19 |
| marekd | mandatory for who - cres? | 18:19 |
| marekd | cores? | 18:19 |
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| dstanek | #action dstanek to make a summary of work sessions | 18:20 |
| dstanek | gyee: mandatory? | 18:20 |
| gyee | you can't skip out of them regardless of title | 18:20 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek: we also need to figure out the other tbd fishbowl. | 18:20 |
| bknudson | we'll all get ankle bracelets for the duration of the meetup to track us and ensure attendance | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | So recommendations. | 18:20 |
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| dstanek | gyee: i "probably" won't skip, but it would be nice to see topics at a glance | 18:21 |
| bknudson | glance is boring | 18:21 |
| gyee | hah | 18:21 |
| henrynash | i, for one, would like to see dstanek skipping | 18:21 |
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| dstanek | henrynash: so it shall be done | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | gyee: nothing is mandatory. I asked for few sessions so we can be in other project sessions more often this summit. | 18:22 |
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| dstanek | i may cartwheel too | 18:22 |
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| dolphm | dstanek: we also require a slow beard release | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:22 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm: ++++++++++++++++++ | 18:22 |
| dolphm | on high speed film | 18:22 |
| dstanek | dolphm: sorry, it's not long enough anymore for the tucking | 18:22 |
| dolphm | dstanek: we require a fresh beard | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | hehe | 18:23 |
| dstanek | ok, anyway.... | 18:23 |
| dstanek | back to summit sessions | 18:23 |
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| dstanek | thoughts, recommendations or "i haven't look yet"? | 18:23 |
| bknudson | the sessions look fine to me. | 18:23 |
| marekd | for me too. | 18:24 |
| bknudson | we might be able to get something done this time. | 18:24 |
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| dstanek | yes, hopefully less crowded table situation | 18:24 |
| bknudson | do we have a work room? | 18:25 |
| bknudson | or does it move around? | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | or a pod? | 18:25 |
| gyee | dynamic room | 18:25 |
| bknudson | y, like a pod | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | the ones in GA were awesome | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: is moves around some but it's mostly the same room(s) | 18:25 |
| gyee | dynamic pod | 18:25 |
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| ayoung | next item? | 18:26 |
| dstanek | alright, so if you haven't taken a look at morganfainberg's first pass at summit session, please do so soonish | 18:26 |
| gyee | but I like morganfainberg's advice, attend other services meetings too | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | The last fishbowl ayoung recommended an authz focused session (oauth-ish workflow for interacting with non Keystone Services) | 18:26 |
| dolphm | why is "keystone stable driver interfaces" acronymed like it's a thing? | 18:26 |
| gyee | things like policy migrate have implications | 18:26 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, ++ | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm: ksdi = keystone driver interface | 18:26 |
| gyee | we need to clearly communicate that to them | 18:26 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: why | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm: to mirror the spec. | 18:26 |
| raildo | gyee, ++ | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | As that is what the spec has. | 18:27 |
| dstanek | #topic Blueprint review | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm: I can easily change it. | 18:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint review (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:27 | |
| dstanek | nothing explicitly called out in the agenda | 18:27 |
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| dstanek | does anyone have any blueprints that need a review for not requiring a spec? | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm: doesn't matter to | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | Me. | 18:27 |
| geoffarnold | So forgive me if I've missed this, but.... do we know exactly what the implications of the new governance model will be for Keystone? | 18:27 |
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| gyee | yes, endpoint constraint enforcement | 18:27 |
| gyee | using oslo policy | 18:27 |
| ayoung | geoffarnold, no clue | 18:27 |
| geoffarnold | Do we have our tags lined up? ;-) | 18:28 |
| ayoung | geoffarnold, my guess is minimal | 18:28 |
| bknudson | are we getting kicked out of openstack? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I sure hope so | 18:28 |
| marekd | geoffarnold: there is already decided *there will be* new governance model? | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | geoffarnold: uhh. Not a real change afaik | 18:28 |
| dstanek | geoffarnold: do you have a link that shows the actual changes? | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | geoffarnold: at least nothing planned yet. | 18:28 |
| gyee | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/174799/5/specs/keystonemiddleware/endpoint-enforcement-middleware.rst | 18:28 |
| bknudson | gyee: there are competing reviews for endpoint enforcement | 18:28 |
| ayoung | dstanek, BTW, I did add something to the agenda...when you get to it | 18:29 |
| geoffarnold | I think that the most likely implication will be that other projects wind up expressing dependencies on keystone which will be captured as tags | 18:29 |
| gyee | bknudson, link? | 18:29 |
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| morganfainberg | geoffarnold: it's still a WIP so I think we will know more at the summit. | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | geoffarnold: but for the most part, not a lot will change for us. | 18:30 |
| bknudson | gyee: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153296/ is the other one | 18:30 |
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| geoffarnold | Agreed. I'd expect that it will be a topic for the midcycle, as we see how it ripples out across projects | 18:30 |
| gyee | geoffarnold, I heard some noise about nova cascading, cells, containers, etc which may be related to what you are doing | 18:30 |
| geoffarnold | http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141202-project-structure-reform-spec.html | 18:30 |
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| gyee | you may want to coordinate | 18:30 |
| jamielennox | gyee: doing endpoint enforcement via policy seems weird to me, i'm not sure about putting policy lines into oslo.config - and i'm not sure i see where you will ever want to match on more than endpoint/service _Id | 18:30 |
| geoffarnold | I'm planning to raise it in cross-project with Thierry | 18:31 |
| marekd | ah, this govern. | 18:31 |
| ayoung | bknudson, those look like spec and impl to me | 18:31 |
| bknudson | "API services should support at least Keystone" -- looks like we're in! | 18:31 |
| gyee | bknudson, Bob's no longer working on OpenStack | 18:31 |
| bknudson | ayoung: this is gyee's impl: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/177661/ | 18:31 |
| gyee | jamielennox, using oslo policy is much more flexible | 18:32 |
| ayoung | gyee, would you have any problem using a policy.json style file as the way to specify what to enforce? | 18:32 |
| bknudson | gyee: you are ruthless! | 18:32 |
| gyee | you can specify region, service_type, matches | 18:32 |
| ayoung | you are doing policy type stuff already, just we want that enforcement on every call | 18:32 |
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| jamielennox | gyee: region doesn't exist, and i don't see the point in service_type | 18:33 |
| gyee | ayoung, no need for file, just load the rule dynamically | 18:33 |
| ayoung | gyee, load the rule dynamically from where | 18:33 |
| gyee | ayoung, from the specified rule | 18:33 |
| ayoung | I see this as "enforce this policy on every call" | 18:33 |
| bknudson | middleware needs to know what its endpoint is? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: yes. | 18:33 |
| bknudson | how does it know? | 18:33 |
| bknudson | config option? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | bknudson, chicken and egg problem | 18:33 |
| gyee | bknudson, a rule | 18:34 |
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| gyee | ayoung, I believe the chicken come first | 18:34 |
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| bknudson | so the rule has it hardcoded | 18:34 |
| bknudson | or it could have the name? | 18:34 |
| gyee | jamielennox, region is in the endpoint | 18:34 |
| ayoung | gyee, lets not hard code the logic here. | 18:34 |
| gyee | v3 catalog | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | load ap olicy file, but it does not need to be the same one as we ship globally | 18:35 |
| gyee | ayoung, no hardcoding | 18:35 |
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| jamielennox | enforcing on region and service_type feels like your pulling the teeth out of the spec, it was all about knowing an actual id now we match on just anything | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | but lets enforce by oslo policy | 18:35 |
| bknudson | so you need to define what's in the context and then just apply the rule | 18:35 |
| gyee | ayoung, it a rule,whether that's coming from policy.json or service conf, it makes no difference | 18:35 |
| dstanek | sounds like this spec should be discussed as part of the dynamic policy discussions | 18:35 |
| bknudson | seems easy enough | 18:35 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, I see it more like "here is a policy rule enforced on every endpoint" | 18:35 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek: agreed | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, ++ | 18:36 |
| bknudson | does the spec say what's in the context? | 18:36 |
| ayoung | if region is in the token, we can enforce on it...or on other things e ahve not yet dreamed of | 18:36 |
| gyee | bknudson, yes, we basically flatten the endpoint and match it against the rule | 18:36 |
| ayoung | this is getting into the dynamic policy world...I'm thrilled | 18:36 |
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| gyee | if one endpoint match, we're good | 18:36 |
| bknudson | what do you get from the token? | 18:36 |
| gyee | ayoung, fugyeah! | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, service catalog | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | middleware needs to know the endpoint he is serving, since it will need to retrieve the policy for that specific service | 18:37 |
| bknudson | oh, so the rule is just endpoint==as23sfsadf9223 | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, I got a change into oslo policy that allow "if anything in this list matches, treat it as True" | 18:37 |
| gyee | ayoung, you can reuse the code for your policy enforcement middleware later on | 18:37 |
| gyee | an added bonus :) | 18:37 |
| ayoung | so if endpoing in service.endpoints.ids blah blah | 18:37 |
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| bknudson | that's all you need? seems like this is way more general than it needs to be. | 18:38 |
| bknudson | more complex than it needs to be | 18:38 |
| gyee | bknudson, we need to match what we support for endpoint groups on the service side | 18:38 |
| dstanek | ayoung: is your new agenda item the one labeled test script? | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | nor does it let you reuse that endpoint id for policy fetching because you'd have to try and parse it out from the policy line | 18:38 |
| gyee | but yes, I am give you a Toyota with a Ferri engine :) | 18:38 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, yes | 18:39 |
| gyee | ferrari engine | 18:39 |
| dstanek | gyee: i need to read some of the other policy specs before i can formulate an intelligent opinion | 18:39 |
| dstanek | right now i just see the want to churn on parts of the security model and i am hiding under my desk | 18:40 |
| david8hu | The challenging part is going to be having that admin (not us developers) editing policy.json and verified that it worked. | 18:40 |
| bknudson | there's a security model? | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: lol. | 18:41 |
| gyee | security is a process, software is a tool | 18:41 |
| dstanek | any more parting thought on the spec gyee brought up? i'd like to keep moving along since we can't solve this one today | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, ++ agree let's move | 18:41 |
| ayoung | dstanek, I'm bleeding on the specs now...we can move on | 18:41 |
| raildo | david8hu, have you ever seen the policy simulator in AWS? | 18:42 |
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| raildo | david8hu, I really like that idea. | 18:42 |
| dstanek | doesn't sound like we have any blueprints that we want to cover as far as needing a spec...moving on | 18:42 |
| dstanek | #topic Test scripts | 18:42 |
| david8hu | raildo, no. Love to see it. | 18:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Test scripts (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:42 | |
| dstanek | ayoung: ... you have to floor | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | OK...so | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek: after ayoung I have a quick question for the group. | 18:43 |
| ayoung | I've been trying to get my QA working up stream | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | and I think we all want this | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | the frist attempt was using the specs..but I think that is too static | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | what we need, I think, it a semi-forma doc that explains how to test a feature | 18:44 |
| ayoung | the first hack should come from the dev | 18:44 |
| ayoung | and the nthe QA folks can start from that, ask questions, and update | 18:44 |
| ayoung | I think etherpad is the right tool | 18:44 |
| gyee | ayoung, by QA you mean tempest folks or your internal QA? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | I wrote a handful for current folks | 18:44 |
| ayoung | gyee, ionternal or external, but not necessarily tempest | 18:45 |
| ayoung | maybe more like, before we get a functional test written | 18:45 |
| dstanek | ayoung: what kinds of tests are you thinking? | 18:45 |
| ayoung | this way, we can communicate what to test, and then a QA engineer can code from that | 18:45 |
| ayoung | dstanek, examples: | 18:45 |
| ayoung | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-token-scoping | 18:45 |
| ayoung | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/hierarchical-projects | 18:45 |
| bknudson | if the tests aren't automated then they're useless. | 18:45 |
| jamielennox | i know that QA needs some help - doesn't this have a likely impact that 5 companies QA teams are all running the same set of scripts and calling it done | 18:46 |
| ayoung | the other ones I am looking at are for | 18:46 |
| ayoung | bknudson, this is before that | 18:46 |
| ayoung | bknudson, someone has to write the automated tests | 18:46 |
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| bknudson | whoever develops the feature writes the tests | 18:46 |
| ayoung | before they can write it, they need to know what to test | 18:46 |
| bknudson | and the documentation | 18:46 |
| ayoung | bknudson, no | 18:46 |
| ayoung | that is too risky | 18:46 |
| jamielennox | i mean if we can write an automated test script then it should be in tempest | 18:46 |
| ayoung | whoever writes the feature explains how to test tit | 18:46 |
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| samueldmq | I think this work should go together with functional tests | 18:47 |
| ayoung | the QA engineers know how to write and break things | 18:47 |
| dstanek | these are basically tempest tests or should be right? | 18:47 |
| bknudson | QA engineers can come in later and fix the tests | 18:47 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, actually not in tempest, but rather in our function test repo, | 18:47 |
| bknudson | or comment on the review | 18:47 |
| gyee | we only test in production | 18:47 |
| dstanek | ayoung: it can't be in our functional tests because you tests scripts use other services | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson: I agree that at least first pass on tests needs to come from the developer | 18:47 |
| samueldmq | ayoung, so I think you should sync with dstanek to figure out how the functional tests environemnt will look like, | 18:48 |
| ayoung | dstanek, some might, some might be keystone only | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | and then we'll have minimal effort to adopt them | 18:48 |
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| ayoung | depends...but we should still descirobe how to test, at least positive sting first | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: functional tests are keystone only. Integration is tempest. | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung: if it uses another service it's likely the latter. | 18:48 |
| bknudson | if you're looking to break things then positive tests aren't going to tell you much | 18:48 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, and tempest is its own project and workflow and we'll get thing in there eventually, too | 18:48 |
| dstanek | ayoung: the functional tests should really be keystone only and x-project stuff belongs in tempest | 18:49 |
| ayoung | I think deciding where to run the tests needs to be part of the test design | 18:49 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek: agreed. Functional is not x-project. | 18:49 |
| bknudson | we've had a harder time in keystone since we've got so many backends / configs | 18:49 |
| ayoung | but I think the "here is how you test it" conversation needs to come first | 18:49 |
| dstanek | we can and should talk more about this at the summit | 18:49 |
| ayoung | and that is what I am tryuing to start | 18:49 |
| bknudson | I guess other projects have a similar issue. | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, it should be integration tests (considering the whole openstack), right | 18:49 |
| bknudson | but then they push the CI off to other groups. | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek: ++. Maybe this is the last work session? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | then, we can try and get our companies internal QA folks to start working upstream...for those that are not trying to special-sauce their qa | 18:50 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: that would work for me | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | Ok. I'll setup the last work session as testing. He last fishbowl I'm still mulling over. | 18:50 |
| ayoung | so...do you agree that before we automate, we need to design tests | 18:50 |
| bknudson | this is what's stopping internal qa folks from working upstream? | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | S/he/the | 18:50 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I'd say so | 18:51 |
| dstanek | we should also get some of our QA people in there if any are attending the summit | 18:51 |
| ayoung | so...here is what I propose | 18:51 |
| ayoung | we set up an etherpad area for functional tests | 18:51 |
| ayoung | and we neame the appropriately | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek: I'll cross track the session with qa as well. | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | as we get stuff done, some of which is cross project (WebSSO) we start documenting there how to test | 18:52 |
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| gyee | WebSSO would be tempest | 18:52 |
| ayoung | we can link to it from the blueprint | 18:52 |
| topol | Is an etherpad permanent enough/ Or is this temporary docs? | 18:52 |
| dstanek | #action morganfainberg will add the session for function/integration testing and add qa | 18:52 |
| ayoung | gyee, eventually, but don't get too ambitious | 18:52 |
| bknudson | does tempest have a way to drive a browser? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | don't try to boil the ocean with this. | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | topol: ether pad is permanent enough for a start. Longer term wiki. | 18:53 |
| samueldmq | bknudson, selenium ? | 18:53 |
| topol | morganfainberg +++ Good answer!! | 18:53 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, so...can we have, something like https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone/testscripts/hierarchical-projects | 18:53 |
| dstanek | ayoung: so you just want a place to put tests scripts so that someone from a qa team can implement? | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | topol: so post summit we can move to wiki. | 18:54 |
| ayoung | dstanek, more than just implement | 18:54 |
| dstanek | sounds like a bug use of a bug | 18:54 |
| gyee | bknudson, mechanize | 18:54 |
| dstanek | s/a bug/a good/ | 18:54 |
| ayoung | I want them to be able to update as they learng things, and also record issues they had "how do I create a project with a parent" | 18:54 |
| ayoung | it might be multiple test scripts eventually, but to start, just document the process | 18:54 |
| ayoung | it might feed into a howto guide as well | 18:55 |
| dstanek | ayoung: wouldn't that be part of the test script itself? | 18:55 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung: longer term wiki is more correct but we can start with an ether pad. | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, can't for complex features | 18:55 |
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| dstanek | i just want my gherkin back | 18:55 |
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| dstanek | ok, so i think that ayoung should start the page and we can discuss more at the summit or offline | 18:56 |
| dstanek | sound good? | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | ++ | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, it needs to be a conversation, especially early one, when we are just sussing out a feature. Once we have it static...it should be in code. Wiki...I wouldn;'t say no | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | 3 minutes left | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | <morganfainberg> dstanek: after ayoung I have a quick question for the group. | 18:56 |
| henrynash | So one item from me: as many of you know I can't attend the summit this year (I'm moving house the weekend before the summit)..so I'll miss the fun...but will try and keep track where I can remotely. | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | Yep. | 18:56 |
| dstanek | #topic morganfainberg's question | 18:56 |
| anteaya | henrynash: I'll miss you | 18:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "morganfainberg's question (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:56 | |
| morganfainberg | henrynash: gonna miss you there! | 18:56 |
| ayoung | henrynash, will we see you at the midcycle? | 18:56 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: ABSO…BLOODY…LUTELY | 18:57 |
| bknudson | henrynash: we'll record the cartwheel | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | So. Do we want a meeting next week or just open time for people to prep for summit? | 18:57 |
| henrynash | bknudson: relying on it | 18:57 |
| topol | did henrynash mention where the new homestead is? | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | We are already skipping week of the summit and the one post | 18:57 |
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| samueldmq | morganfainberg, maybe we can have a quick one | 18:57 |
| ayoung | Let's have the meeting planned | 18:57 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, and end it earlier if we havent enough items | 18:57 |
| henrynash | topol: by the sea near Bristol…midcyle meetup one day there? | 18:57 |
| * topol He's not suffering :-) | 18:57 | |
| ayoung | If nothing else, there will be summit stuff to hammer out | 18:57 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: a quick touch point meeting wouldn't hurt | 18:57 |
| bknudson | there seems to be a lot of not much going on in the run-up to the summit | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek: ok I'll keep the meeting. We will just say "hi" summit | 18:58 |
| bknudson | what are we going to do when there's no summit to put stuff off until? | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | And then move on unless something comes up. | 18:58 |
| dstanek | we should make an effort not to bring up things that we can/should discuss at the summit other than to let other know there's something to discuss | 18:58 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek: ++ | 18:58 |
| dstanek | parting thoughts? | 18:59 |
| bknudson | henrynash: bristol connecticut? | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | Have a good week! | 18:59 |
| * morganfainberg goes to get food. | 18:59 | |
| henrynash | bknudson: didn’t know there was one! | 18:59 |
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| marekd | henrynash: they have whole europe there.... | 19:00 |
| dstanek | #action ayoung to blaze a path for test documentation | 19:00 |
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| dstanek | ok, that's all she wrote | 19:00 |
| dstanek | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 5 19:00:27 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-05-05-18.01.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-05-05-18.01.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-05-05-18.01.log.html | 19:00 |
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| henrynash | marekd: amazing..I wonder why… | 19:00 |
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| dstanek | back to #openstack-keystone for beer and campfire stories | 19:01 |
| anteaya | campfire | 19:01 |
| * fungi wonders where all the infra people at | 19:01 | |
| AJaeger_ | \o/ | 19:01 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:01 |
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| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:01 |
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| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:01 |
| Clint | o/ | 19:01 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:01 |
| asselin__ | o/ | 19:01 |
| AJaeger_ | fungi, joining dstanek for beer and campfire ;) | 19:01 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:01 |
| dougwig | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | keystone gets a campfire, infra gets a wildfire | 19:02 |
| ociuhandu | o/ | 19:02 |
| anteaya | we can scale | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | I promised a pinata | 19:02 |
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| GheRivero | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | piñata | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | (optional cervezas) | 19:02 |
| pabelanger | well hello there | 19:02 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:02 |
| dstanek | AJaeger_: welcome! | 19:02 |
| GheRivero | piñata y cerveza! I'm en casa! | 19:02 |
| dstanek | fungi: better you than me :-P | 19:02 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:02 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 19:03 |
| AJaeger_ | thanks, dstanek ! | 19:03 |
| cinerama | ¡viva infra! | 19:03 |
| tchaypo | having meetings at 5am th emorning after the local OSUG meeting should be banned | 19:03 |
| tchaypo | also it’s may 6</obligatory_antipodean_grumpiness> | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 5 19:03:32 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| greghaynes | O/ | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-04-28-19.04.html | 19:03 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| jeblair | fungi check our cinder quota in rax-dfw | 19:04 |
| fungi | uh, yeah, not done | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #action fungi check our cinder quota in rax-dfw | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | #topic Summit planning | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit planning (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| jeblair | thanks to folks who put things on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-liberty-summit-planning | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | mordred, SpamapS: do you think we ought to talk about infra-cloud at the summit? | 19:05 |
| mordred | yes | 19:05 |
| * anteaya reminds folks to enter their name in the top right corner of the etherpad | 19:06 | |
| jeblair | mordred: okay, should probably put something in there real quick like | 19:06 |
| mordred | SpamapS: I'm slammed this week - can you make an entry for that? | 19:06 |
| greghaynes | Is there new stuff to talk about since we last talked? Or just convey info? | 19:06 |
| mordred | me tries | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | greghaynes: i would like us to make a go/no-go decision. in my mind that means determining the scope of work and whether we have enough people lined up and ready for it | 19:07 |
| mordred | jeblair: I have put in a placeholder entry | 19:07 |
| greghaynes | Awesome | 19:07 |
| jeblair | mordred: thx | 19:07 |
| jeblair | i expect to translate that into an actual schedule this week | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
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| jeblair | this part of the meeting has started to get a little status-reporty, which i think generally we want to avoid, and instead focus on things we need to work through widely together | 19:09 |
| jeblair | but giving these items priority | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | so i'm thinking we should ask people involved in the priority efforts to update the meeting agenda to flag that they have something to discuss; or else, i can ask at the start of the meeting... | 19:10 |
| jeblair | how does that sound? | 19:10 |
| fungi | i think that's a great idea | 19:10 |
| jhesketh | Sounds good to me | 19:11 |
| GheRivero | like it | 19:11 |
| anteaya | me too | 19:11 |
| jeblair | also, shout now if you have a priority effort thing to discuss :) | 19:11 |
| pleia2 | wfm | 19:11 |
| fungi | makes the meeting less of a scramble to get through those and still have time for other incidental topics | 19:11 |
| anteaya | can we talk about gerrit for saturday? | 19:11 |
| anteaya | just to ensure we are ready? | 19:11 |
| nibalizer | wfm | 19:11 |
| jeblair | anteaya: yep | 19:11 |
| anteaya | also I can't be here on saturday, sorry | 19:11 |
| jhesketh | I have nothing to discuss sorry (ie no progress) | 19:11 |
| fungi | yeah, with the gerrit upgrade coming up this weekend, talking about that is probably a great idea ;) | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | only have progress-report stuff for zanata, we're doing fine and have nothing to discuss more broadly | 19:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: sounds good to me (updating agends if specific items need discussion) | 19:12 |
| jeblair | oh, also i have a todo item to make the priority effort gerrit topics more visible to reduce the need to should for reviews in this meeting | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: ++ | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair make the priority effort gerrit topics more visible to reduce the need to shout for reviews in this meeting | 19:12 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Effort: Upgrading Gerrit Saturday May 9 | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Effort: Upgrading Gerrit Saturday May 9 (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
| jeblair | that's a few days away! | 19:13 |
| fungi | we probably need to talk about 2.10.2 vs 2.10.3+ | 19:13 |
| fungi | the main concern for latest 2.10.x was... | 19:14 |
| fungi | #link https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/repo-discuss/Kv4bWLESbQ4/-oSNbuTQwkUJ | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | so 2.10.2 has the sshd version we are using now | 19:14 |
| jeblair | right? | 19:14 |
| fungi | someone running gerrit saw a lockup on 2.10.3 (which is also the one with the ssh lib that's supposed to solve our stream-events problem) | 19:14 |
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| fungi | but their lockup seems afterward to have been likely unrelated | 19:15 |
| jeblair | fungi: wait, there's a known fix for our stream-events problem? | 19:15 |
| fungi | #link https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SSHD-348 | 19:15 |
| clarkb | fungi: jeblair I think there was a supposed fix via MINA SSHD update to fix one bug | 19:15 |
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| fungi | supposedly | 19:15 |
| jeblair | isn't that the one that was introduced _after_ our version? | 19:16 |
| jeblair | my recollection is that was introduced in 2.9.x, reverted in 2.9.y, fixed upstream, then reintroduced later... so all of that happens _after_ our gerrit version | 19:17 |
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| fungi | perhaps. except that the stack traces i have show stream workers stuck in that same method | 19:17 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya there are three MINA SSHD versions at play. the one we use, the one that broke older 2.9, and the one 2.10.3 is using | 19:17 |
| jeblair | which is why we are baffled by seeing the problem on our server (which ran something like 1.5 years with it only showing up once) | 19:17 |
| clarkb | jeblair: correct, and I think this thread shows that all three have exhiited the problem | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: yes, but possibly with varying degrees? and maybe it's more than one problem with a single manifestation? | 19:19 |
| jeblair | i'm getting the sense from that thread that people think 2.10.2 is less error-prone in this regard than 2.10.3. does that seem right? | 19:19 |
| clarkb | ya I think we see a common symptom across all of them that may be >= 1 bug with varying degrees of expression based on gerrit version | 19:19 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: I agree ith that | 19:19 |
| jeblair | zaro: what do you have staged for us on our 2.10 branch? | 19:20 |
| fungi | so, anyway, i guess point being 2.10.2 has the same mina-sshd we're running, 2.10.3 has a much newer mina-sshd which might alleviate the problem we have. though the only thing i saw in that discussion was one person reporting a problem which might have been unrelated to the gerrit version | 19:20 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: sorry for the interruption and late response, I got pulled away by meatspace things. Yes I do think we should talk about infra cloud at the summit and I'm working on a patch to infra manual with the first rev of the docs that we can use to seed the discussion. | 19:21 |
| jeblair | SpamapS, mordred: great, thanks! | 19:21 |
| jeblair | okay, does anyone at this meeting know what version of gerrit we are poised to deploy on saturday? | 19:22 |
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| fungi | 2.10.2-23-g039a170 is what's running on review-dev | 19:23 |
| fungi | if i had to guess, i'd say that | 19:23 |
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| anteaya | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155463/3/modules/openstack_project/manifests/review.pp | 19:24 |
| anteaya | 10.2.22 | 19:24 |
| jeblair | fungi: so that's 23 commits past .2, one of which may be the sshd upgrade | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: or 22 commits | 19:24 |
| anteaya | the patch is not in syncy with the -dev server :( | 19:24 |
| fungi | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/gerrit/log/?h=openstack%2F2.10.2 | 19:25 |
| * clarkb is looking at git now | 19:25 | |
| anteaya | jeblair: ah thanks | 19:25 |
| jeblair | i'm starting to get worried about this. i'm not at all sure we have our act together for saturday. | 19:25 |
| jeblair | does anyone want to drive this effort? | 19:25 |
| clarkb | it does not include mina sshd change or 2.10.3 | 19:25 |
| anteaya | I can't since I cant' be here on saturday, sorry | 19:26 |
| anteaya | otherwise I would | 19:26 |
| clarkb | zaro: ^ are you around? | 19:26 |
| anteaya | anything other than a funeral and I'd change my plans | 19:27 |
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| clarkb | I can jump in as soon as I get this gearman plugin fix going | 19:28 |
| fungi | i can pick it up and run with it since zaro seems not to be around | 19:28 |
| zaro | clarkb: yes | 19:28 |
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| clarkb | zaro: see questions above, what version do we intend on upgrading Gerrit to on saturday? and does that include the 2.10.3 sshd changes? | 19:28 |
| jeblair | zaro: welcome back | 19:29 |
| zaro | jeblair: i believe it's tip of stable-2.10 | 19:29 |
| zaro | branch | 19:29 |
| clarkb | ok so that would include the 2.10.3 changes | 19:29 |
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| zaro | i think there was an update to jgit that we should get | 19:29 |
| jeblair | zaro: why is review-dev running .23 and the proposal for review to run .22? | 19:29 |
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| fungi | 4 days to go, so not much time left to lock this down and retest on review-dev to be certain we're good for the window | 19:30 |
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| zaro | jeblair: probably an error, i need to update | 19:31 |
| jeblair | zaro: you mean you intend to upgrade review.o.o to .23? | 19:31 |
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| zaro | let me review this. trying to map version number to change | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | zaro: i need your input on whether you think we should use the older or newer mina sshd, and also whether your proposed gerrit build includes the older or newer sshd | 19:33 |
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| zaro | I think the version on review-dev is the one we want to go with. IIRC the SSHD problem that was reported wasn't a real proble but let me confirm | 19:35 |
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| fungi | zaro: well, turned out to probably not be an sshd-related issue, but the reporter never updated to say when they retried to upgrade | 19:35 |
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| fungi | i linked it earlier in the meeting | 19:35 |
| zaro | ahh cool. | 19:36 |
| zaro | what is your opinion on this change? https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/#/c/67653/ | 19:36 |
| fungi | so it's an unknown. we might upgrade to 2.10.3 and see gerrit freezing up on us, or we might not. we might upgrade to 2.3.10 and see the new mina-sshd solve our stream-events hang, or might not | 19:36 |
| mordred | that's awesome | 19:37 |
| jeblair | clarkb, fungi: are you comfortable trying the newer mina sshd then? | 19:37 |
| clarkb | I think so, it will likely be no worse than the current situation | 19:37 |
| jeblair | zaro: so one last thing -- can you confirm that the .23 build has the newer mina sshd? | 19:37 |
| fungi | it's early in the cycle, we can so an emergency downgrade if needed | 19:38 |
| fungi | new versions usually come with unknown new bugs | 19:38 |
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| jeblair | fungi: schema changes might force us to stick with 2.10, so likely just a downgrade to 2.10.2 equivalent by the time we notice the problem | 19:38 |
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| fungi | yeah, that's what i was expecting | 19:38 |
| zaro | jeblair: yes. | 19:39 |
| fungi | we try 2.10.3 and if we have problems switch to 2.10.2 | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | zaro: yes it is in that build? | 19:39 |
| clarkb | fungi: sounds good | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | who's around on saturday? | 19:39 |
| jeblair | o/ | 19:39 |
| fungi | i plan to be here for the duration | 19:40 |
| zaro | jeblair: ohh crap. i don't see .23 in tarballs. let me check that on the sever | 19:40 |
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| fungi | zaro: yeah, there's no 23rd change merged to the branch since 2.10.2 | 19:41 |
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| fungi | tip of that branch is 22 | 19:41 |
| clarkb | I am | 19:41 |
| pleia2 | I can be here for the first hour, but I need to leave at 1700 | 19:41 |
| zaro | alright. that's a custom build of mine. probably testing something | 19:41 |
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| pabelanger | I can be, if help is needed | 19:42 |
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| anteaya | pabelanger: having someone in channel to answer questions is helpful | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | zaro: okay, so what do you propose we install on saturday? | 19:42 |
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| zaro | for sure .22 is it. | 19:43 |
| jeblair | zaro: want to downgrade review-dev then? | 19:43 |
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| zaro | yes, i can do that | 19:43 |
| jeblair | k, thx | 19:43 |
| jeblair | should we send out a reminder announcement? | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | yes | 19:43 |
| anteaya | I think so | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | I can do that if you'd like | 19:43 |
| zaro | have puppet turned off on review-dev due to the required change for gerrit libs. | 19:44 |
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| AJaeger_ | will you do project renames also during the downtime or is that better for another separate slot? | 19:45 |
| zaro | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172534/ | 19:45 |
| fungi | separate | 19:45 |
| jeblair | AJaeger_: i think we should leave it for another slot | 19:45 |
| fungi | i don't think we want to do anything during the saturday window except upgrade gerrit | 19:45 |
| zaro | sorry to come late, did we post the etherpad for gerrit upgrade yet? | 19:45 |
| jeblair | pleia2: that sounds great; when should we send the announcement? | 19:45 |
| jeblair | #agreed downgrade review-dev.o.o to gerrit 2.10.2.22 | 19:45 |
| jeblair | #agreed upgrade review.o.o to gerrit 2.10.2.22 | 19:46 |
| jeblair | #info 2.10.2.22 is stable-2.10 branch tip, approximately equivalent to 2.10.3 and contains a newer mina sshd | 19:46 |
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| anteaya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gerrit-2.10-upgrade | 19:46 |
| zaro | well here it is anyways #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gerrit-2.10-upgrade | 19:46 |
| anteaya | zaro: I put it in the agenda | 19:46 |
| zaro | anteaya: thanks | 19:46 |
| anteaya | welcome | 19:46 |
| jeblair | maybe send reminder announcements tomorrow and also friday? | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: wfm | 19:46 |
| clarkb | jeblair: +1 | 19:47 |
| fungi | zaro: you're sure the mina-sshd upgrade from 2.10.3 is in our openstack/2.10.2 branch? | 19:47 |
| jeblair | #action pleia2 send reminder announcements about gerrit upgrade wed may 6 and friday may 8 | 19:47 |
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| zaro | fungi: it's a downgrade, but yes the downgrade is there. | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | if that is true, it has invalidated all of my knowledge on the subject | 19:49 |
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| fungi | yeah, i was asking about the mina-sshd _upgrade_ to 0.14.0 in gerrit 2.10.3 | 19:50 |
| zaro | no, sorry i meant it's got the 0.14 version in there. | 19:50 |
| clarkb | zaro: do you know which commit pulls it in? | 19:50 |
| fungi | which is newer than the 0.9.whatever we're running | 19:51 |
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| zaro | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/gerrit/commit/?h=openstack/2.10.2&id=e43b1b10b13e86f9c957175aca33d9c2ff592fff | 19:51 |
| clarkb | https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/gerrit/commit/?h=openstack/2.10.2&id=e43b1b10b13e86f9c957175aca33d9c2ff592fff ? | 19:51 |
| clarkb | ya ok | 19:51 |
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| jeblair | okay, i think we're all set then. anything else on this topic? | 19:52 |
| anteaya | I'm looking forward to close connectin | 19:52 |
| fungi | nope, let's do it | 19:53 |
| zaro | no | 19:53 |
| jeblair | great, thanks everyone! | 19:53 |
| fungi | it'll be good to have behind us | 19:53 |
| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:53 | |
| clarkb | I think I have a mostly working version of the gearman plugin update change to push up | 19:53 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:54 |
| clarkb | will get that up for review as soon as meeting is over | 19:54 |
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| anteaya | do we think that this will solve the problem? | 19:54 |
| anteaya | the problem being lots of ready nodes and few in use | 19:54 |
| clarkb | it should solve the node leaking problem, unsure how it will affect the other issues | 19:54 |
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| anteaya | okay thanks | 19:54 |
| jeblair | i met with some enovance folks recently, and they want to help out with upstream infra -- they're going to start by pitching into the puppet-openstackci / downstream puppet effort | 19:55 |
| fungi | anteaya: i think the bulk of the ready nodes aren't actually ready | 19:55 |
| anteaya | wonderful | 19:55 |
| asselin__ | great! | 19:55 |
| clarkb | I think fbo has already been pushing changes for that | 19:55 |
| anteaya | fungi: ah | 19:55 |
| * clarkb has been trying to review when able | 19:55 | |
| pabelanger | started work on grafyaml (yaml for grafana). Have some yaml validating and working on posting a dashboard right now. I'm sure there'll be some discussion about it, but figure we can talk about it next meeting / summit? | 19:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yep! | 19:55 |
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| anteaya | pabelanger: have you put it on the etherpad? | 19:56 |
| fungi | anteaya: just after we started the meeting i spotted that there were nodes running jobs which nodepool thought were ready, so we may have been simultaneously struggling with the gearman race in jenkins and a zeromq publisher disconnect between nodepoold and the jenkins masters | 19:56 |
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| anteaya | even if you don't get a slot put it there as a marker | 19:56 |
| pabelanger | anteaya, nothing yet. Will have to do that shortly | 19:56 |
| fungi | both have the effect of causing nodes to seem to stick around in a ready state in nodepool, but for very different reasons | 19:56 |
| anteaya | fungi: oh wonderful | 19:56 |
| mrmartin | I was a bit late today,and missed to askbot topic. I'm on a good track on askbot-staging, but it seems to be that the latest app is broken and need to solve that issue before we can move further. | 19:56 |
| fungi | and with very different outcomes when you delete them :/ | 19:56 |
| anteaya | fungi: oh great | 19:56 |
| anteaya | fungi: are you able to filter them based on state? | 19:57 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: exciting -- i expect it's probably not an issue that needs a lot of discussion (i think we probably agree it's a good idea), so might be a good sprint or workroom thing at the summit (to just knock out some dashboards or something) | 19:57 |
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| jeblair | mrmartin: good to know, thanks | 19:57 |
| fungi | anteaya: i'm able to filter based on long enough to not be running jobs any more but still showing ready. also i restarted nodepoold to get around the other issue | 19:57 |
| AJaeger_ | fungi, is there anything you can tell SergeyLukjanov in case we run into this again during non-US hours? | 19:58 |
| anteaya | fungi: seems to help a bit based on teh graph | 19:58 |
| fungi | AJaeger_: yes, get familiar with this stuff and troubleshoot it | 19:58 |
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| pabelanger | jeblair, sounds good to me | 19:58 |
| zaro | jeblair: i completely forgot, we probably want this in before he upgrade https://review.openstack.org/#/c/176523/ | 19:58 |
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| anteaya | zaro: add that to the etherpad please, it isn't there right now | 19:59 |
| jeblair | zaro: is that based on the second version of my patch? (the first was wrong) | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | time's up, thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| mrmartin | o/ | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 5 20:00:25 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-05-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-05-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| fungi | there's also a full-on breaks-everything-in-devstack issue going on now which is causing a lot of job failures, which could also be confusing a lot of people. pretty much nothing which gates on devstack can merge since several hours ago now | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-05-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| anteaya | fungi: wonderful | 20:00 |
| ttx | Alright! Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, annegentle, mordred, jaypipes, sdague, dhellmann : around ? | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 5 20:01:36 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| krotscheck | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Welcome to Liberty TC members | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Welcome to Liberty TC members (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | lifeless is excused | 20:02 |
| ttx | dtroyer, flaper87: welcome! | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:02 |
| dtroyer | thanks | 20:02 |
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| sdague | ttx: o/ | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | welcome aboard | 20:03 |
| ttx | dtroyer, flaper87: any pressing question ? | 20:03 |
| jgriffith | 0/ | 20:03 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:03 |
| dtroyer | ttx: not atm | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | none from me | 20:03 |
| ttx | alright, let's dive in it | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Election of the TC Chair | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Election of the TC Chair (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | Our first step is to (s)elect the TC chair | 20:03 |
| ttx | The TC chair is responsible for making sure meetings are held (and decisions taken) according to the rules of our charter | 20:03 |
| ttx | Practically, the TC chair organizes the meetings and pushes the Workflow+1 button on governance changes | 20:03 |
| jgriffith | The glue that binds us together :) | 20:04 |
| ttx | I'm happy to continue doing that, but if we have other candidates we can set up a quick CIVS poll to decide | 20:04 |
| ttx | Anyone else interested ? | 20:04 |
| jaypipes | nope. | 20:04 |
| * dhellmann takes one step back | 20:04 | |
| egon | heh | 20:04 |
| * flaper87 silently helps ttx sitting in the TC chair | 20:04 | |
| sdague | run away ... | 20:04 |
| markmcclain | ttx: +1 to you continuing | 20:04 |
| * ttx innocently hides a gun in his back | 20:04 | |
| * jgriffith hides under his desk | 20:04 | |
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| jeblair | everyone should do it once so they know why they should pretend not to be here now | 20:05 |
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| jgriffith | maybe next time ttx... maybe next time.... | 20:05 |
| ttx | ok, don't worry, there will be plenty of new opportunities to step up | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'm happy to fill in when you can't be here :-) | 20:05 |
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| jgriffith | jeblair: lighten up, it's a hard job and I don't have to "do it" to know it's difficult | 20:06 |
| markmcclain | ttx: do you need someone for formally nominate you? | 20:06 |
| markmcclain | s/for/to/ | 20:06 |
| sdague | lifeless: already did in email | 20:06 |
| ttx | markmcclain: not really | 20:06 |
| sdague | I think that counts | 20:06 |
| ttx | ok, let's register at least one person approving | 20:06 |
| markmcclain | sdague: +1 | 20:07 |
| * flaper87 formally nominates ttx | 20:07 | |
| ttx | #startvote Approve Thierry Carrez as TC chair for Liberty cycle? yes, no, abstain | 20:07 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Approve Thierry Carrez as TC chair for Liberty cycle? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. | 20:07 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:07 |
| sdague | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| annegentle | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| dtroyer | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| jeblair | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| ttx | #vote abstain | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | #vote yes | 20:07 |
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| markmcclain | #vote yes | 20:07 |
| ttx | 30 more seconds | 20:07 |
| dansmith | #wouldvoteifIcould yes | 20:07 |
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| egon | dansmith: ditto | 20:08 |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:08 |
| openstack | Voted on "Approve Thierry Carrez as TC chair for Liberty cycle?" Results are | 20:08 |
| openstack | yes (8): annegentle, jeblair, sdague, jgriffith, dhellmann, dtroyer, flaper87, markmcclain | 20:08 |
| openstack | abstain (1): ttx | 20:08 |
| ttx | OK, I guess that's official enough now | 20:08 |
| ttx | thanks for your trust | 20:08 |
| jaypipes | #vote yes | 20:08 |
| jaypipes | well damn. too late. | 20:08 |
| ttx | jaypipes: maybe next time :) | 20:08 |
| ttx | #topic Summit week | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit week (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:08 | |
| markmcclain | ttx: do you have a patch for reference/members queued up? or should I hack on up? | 20:08 |
| ttx | Just as a reminder, there is a joint Board/TC meeting Sunday afternoon just before summit | 20:09 |
| ttx | markmcclain: no patch queued up, wanted to wait until chair was selected | 20:09 |
| ttx | markmcclain: fgeel free to propose one | 20:09 |
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| ttx | Board/TC joint meeting in theory from 2:30 pm to 5:30pm | 20:09 |
| ttx | But then they may have run lkate | 20:09 |
| ttx | or late | 20:09 |
| ttx | It is followed by a dinner at 6pm, for which you should have received an RSVP | 20:09 |
| annegentle | ha I read that as 5:30 am at first | 20:10 |
| ttx | Thursday evening we have the TC dinner at 7pm, you should have received an email from mordred about that | 20:10 |
| * flaper87 won't make it for the meeting, landing at 15:00 ish | 20:10 | |
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| ttx | flaper87: you can join us when you arrive | 20:10 |
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| ttx | I heard jet lag doesn't affect you | 20:10 |
| annegentle | lucky | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | ttx: that is true :) | 20:10 |
| ttx | Questions on that topic ? | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | ttx: details of the meeting location will be coming later? | 20:11 |
| ttx | Hmm, let me check if I have anything | 20:11 |
| ttx | Maybe our board members know more | 20:11 |
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| eglute | Emerald Ballroom in the Fairmont Pacific Rim Hotel | 20:12 |
| annegentle | thanks eglute! | 20:12 |
| ttx | Meeting Location: Emerald Ballroom in the Fairmont Pacific Rim | 20:12 |
| ttx | hotel | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | thnx | 20:12 |
| ttx | eglute wins | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | thanks, eglute | 20:13 |
| annegentle | Vancouver is Pacific time? | 20:13 |
| ttx | (directly across the street from the Vancouver Convention Centre). It’s located on the 3rd floor of the hotel. | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: yes | 20:13 |
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| ttx | For that joint meeting, if you have pressing topics, please send them my way and I'll communicate them to Alan | 20:14 |
| annegentle | hm thinking | 20:14 |
| ttx | Hopefully we'll have an agenda to present at next week meeting | 20:14 |
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| * ttx needs to contact alan on that | 20:14 | |
| ttx | #topic Report from the Design Summit Cross-project track working group | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Report from the Design Summit Cross-project track working group (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:15 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: floor is yours | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | thanks! | 20:15 |
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| dhellmann | We plan 2 tracks of 7 cross-project sessions each (14), all fishbowl-style rooms | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | There are 28 proposals in https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCTZBJKCMZ2xBhglnuK3ciKo3E8UMFo5S5lmIAYMCSE/edit#gid=827503418 | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | lifeless, annegentle, sdague, flaper87, markmcclain, and devananda met last friday and yesterday to discuss the proposals to narrow the list | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | The meeting logs are http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc_summit_planning/2015/tc_summit_planning.2015-05-01-20.02.log.html | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | Most of the meeting notes are actually in the etherpad we created https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-cross-project-session-planning | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | the discussions yesterday were mostly in email, with me capturing notes to the etherpad | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | (stand by for paste-bomb) | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | The sessions we came up with are listed at the top, and here (the numbers are row numbers in the spreadsheet): | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 2 In-team scaling | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 3 OpenStack release model(s) | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 4 Moving our applications to Python 3 | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 27 Improving user experience across all OpenStack projects | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 9 Modern JavaScript in OpenStack | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 10&25 Asynchronous status updates to users | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 14 OpenStack SDK: where it's at, where it's going | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 17 Functional Testing Show & Tell | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 18 Service Catalog Standardization | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 22 API Working Group: State of the Group | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 26 Unified Policy File | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 11 OpenStack Documentation | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 7 Nova & Neutron network migration | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | 29 Managing concurrency | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | I confirmed with the organizers of 10 & 25 that merging was acceptable. | 20:16 |
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| ttx | Looks like a nice list of topics. Great work there ! | 20:17 |
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| dhellmann | we did identify one topic that hadn't been proposed that we felt we needed, but if there are other pressing items we should discuss those | 20:17 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: now we have the fun part.. scheduling them to reduce conflict | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | ttx: thanks, there were a few tough calls but I think we had a good broad set of inputs | 20:18 |
| * dhellmann takes one step back | 20:18 | |
| dhellmann | there's one note about the nova/neutron session needing an exact time slot | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | I haven't looked into conflicts for the others, yet | 20:18 |
| * Rockyg dhellmann made right call lon logging | 20:19 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: for scheduling, in the past I generally had the generalist stuff on one room and the more technical/detail stuff in another | 20:19 |
| jeblair | the title change on #7 is fun :) | 20:19 |
| sdague | I guess the only think that I thought about late is we keep hinting that mordred and jeblair are going to do a "what infra hates about openstack" session at some point, which never seems to happen | 20:19 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: what was the one topic not proposed that you felt needed discussed?\ | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: we added the "managing concurrency" session to cover that topic (sorry, I realize that was phrased poorly) | 20:19 |
| sdague | jeblair: the title will change again on #7 to specify which part of the conversation this is, which is basically gap analysis | 20:19 |
| jaypipes | ah, gotcha | 20:19 |
| mordred | sdague: yeah - we never get aroudn to proposing that - sorry | 20:20 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: who should I be talking as a driver for that session? | 20:20 |
| annegentle | sdague: mordred: jeblair: blog post! | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | FWIW, I'm quite happy we managed to have a slot for the concurrency topic | 20:20 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle: ++ | 20:20 |
| sdague | dhellmann: for the nova/neutron one - that's going to end up being me | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | sdague: noted | 20:20 |
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| dhellmann | flaper87: ++ | 20:21 |
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| sdague | flaper87: I'll be happier if something comes out of it that we think is doable :) There seem to be a lot of different corners at the moment | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | do we want to go through questions on the proposed list? | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | sdague: yeah, my goal for that one has a very narrow scope: figure out what options might actually be realistic | 20:22 |
| sdague | dhellmann: ++ | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:22 |
| sdague | dhellmann: you chairing that one? | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | sdague: yes, I think so | 20:22 |
| sdague | then I have faith :) | 20:23 |
| ttx | dhellmann: should we try to resolve TC members conflicts now by trying to pair those sessions now ? | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that sounds like a good plan - do we know the speaking schedule, yet? | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | sdague: ty :-) | 20:23 |
| sdague | the speaking schedule is public | 20:23 |
| ttx | dhellmann: hmm, maybe do it off-meeting and post it to -tc list for last-minute checks ? | 20:23 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: ok | 20:23 |
| ttx | dhellmann: from experience I know it's difficult to improvise in 5 min | 20:23 |
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| sdague | honestly, I'd say people should annotate the list with name and "not at X:Y" if they know of conflicts | 20:24 |
| ttx | dhellmann: we have session moderators for all of those, right ? | 20:24 |
| sdague | and the just guess the rest | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | sdague: ++ | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes | 20:24 |
| egon | One of the other teams is using http://doodle.com/ to coordinate meetings. | 20:24 |
| sdague | basically, annotate today if you really want to be in a thing, and you have a time restriction | 20:24 |
| sdague | egon: yeh, the problem is this is way too many dimensions | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | good idea, please update the top of the etherpad where the list of approved sessions is | 20:25 |
| egon | sdague: fair | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | I will then use my famous note-cards-on-the-floor schedule resolution algorithm | 20:25 |
| anteaya | I love that app | 20:25 |
| sdague | heh | 20:25 |
| * flaper87 wonders if there's a youtube video tutorial for that algorithm | 20:25 | |
| dhellmann | flaper87: they banned it because of the swearing | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: lol | 20:26 |
| markmcclain | haha | 20:26 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I annotated the list on the etherpad with my conflicts | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | ttx: could you include your nick in the comments so I can tell who's who when you aren't connected to the pad? | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | ty | 20:26 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: ok, let's propose a schedule tomorrow, once everyone has posted their conflicts | 20:27 |
| sdague | dhellmann: thanks for all the work putting this together | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: thanks indeed | 20:27 |
| ttx | and see how it goes | 20:28 |
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| jeblair | ttx: do you have the design summit slot allocation chart handy? | 20:28 |
| ttx | moving on | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | sdague: I had a bunch of help from the other folks | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VsFdRYGbX5eCde81XDV7TrPBfEC7cgtOFikruYmqbPY/edit#gid=569963128 | 20:28 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: thx | 20:28 |
| ttx | I suspect I'll have ops conflicts too, let's add those | 20:28 |
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| ttx | but let's do that off-meeting | 20:29 |
| ttx | anything else on this topic before we move on ? | 20:29 |
| ttx | #topic TC members list | 20:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TC members list (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:29 | |
| ttx | markmcclain just proposed the TC members update | 20:29 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180301/ | 20:30 |
| ttx | I think it makes sense to approve it in this inaugural meeting, unless there is an objection | 20:30 |
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| dhellmann | LGTM, should we have our election official sign off? | 20:30 |
| ttx | I won't nit pick about alpha-ordering of Flavio | 20:30 |
| ttx | ah. hm | 20:31 |
| annegentle | oh | 20:31 |
| ttx | let's see if we can have one of them | 20:31 |
| * markmcclain goes back to school to learn to alphabetize | 20:31 | |
| ttx | tristanC, pleia2: could one of you record a comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180301/ saying that corresponds to the election results ? | 20:31 |
| * flaper87 feels safe between sdague and annegentle | 20:31 | |
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| dhellmann | markmcclain: Flavio comes between Dague and Gentle, just where you have it ;-) | 20:32 |
| annegentle | if not randomized :) | 20:32 |
| ttx | I'll wait for that election official blessing to approve | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 20:32 |
| ttx | #topic Project list housekeeping | 20:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project list housekeeping (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:32 | |
| jeblair | (looks like the gerrit tc group is already updated) | 20:32 |
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| ttx | In the mean time, three repositories added to Ironic, already +1ed by their PTL: | 20:32 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes, lifeless asked me for +1 powerz | 20:32 |
| ttx | * Add ironic-discoverd to Ironic project (https://review.openstack.org/178067) | 20:34 |
| ttx | * Clean up Ironic project listing (https://review.openstack.org/178066) | 20:34 |
| ttx | * Add "bifrost" to Ironic project (https://review.openstack.org/178068) | 20:34 |
| ttx | I'll approve them all tomorrow morning unless someone posts a -1 by then | 20:34 |
| ttx | so last hours to object | 20:34 |
| ttx | #topic Communicating on the TC activity | 20:34 |
| ttx | So... There was a thread this week about how much the Kilo membership sucked at communicating what happens at the TC | 20:34 |
| ttx | The trick being, with the move to Gerrit-based approvals we are approving stuff asynchronously, and no longer necessarily in meeting | 20:34 |
| ttx | Which makes posting meeting minutes a bit weird | 20:34 |
| ttx | Last cycle(s) we opted for authored blogposts when we felt like there was enough material to communicate, with a rotation of authors | 20:34 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: I could wire up yasfb to the governance repo like we did with the specs repos | 20:34 |
| jeblair | git changelog? :) | 20:34 |
| ttx | But only a handful of authors participated, and we didn't push enough of those | 20:34 |
| ttx | My question is... how should we improve on that for this cycle ? | 20:34 |
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| dhellmann | (yasfb would give us an rss feed, which we could feed into planet.openstack.org) | 20:34 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: neat | 20:34 |
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| maishsk | ttx: The fact that this is on the agenda is already a great step forward :) | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/rss.xml | 20:34 |
| ttx | dhellmann: wouldn't that flood it with repo changes ? | 20:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Communicating on the TC activity (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:34 | |
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| dhellmann | ttx: no, it produces a feed of pages, not patches, so you only get updates when we add or change pages | 20:35 |
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| dhellmann | I would have to experiment a bit to make sure that wouldn't be "too much" | 20:35 |
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| jeblair | yeah, the feed of changes looks a bit busy: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/atom | 20:36 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I fear that would result in only reporting TC activity that results in governance repo changes though | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | ttx: well, yeah | 20:36 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ttx: that was one component, but this needs to be more highly curated and regular | 20:36 |
| ttx | I kind of wanted us to work on things that may not translate into governance changes | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | mmh, I kinda feel we should actually collect this manually and write some kind of "this week on the TC" | 20:37 |
| ttx | like solving community problems | 20:37 |
| ttx | flaper87: +1, only for that we need volunteer(s) | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that will result in different, probably more useful, content | 20:37 |
| sdague | flaper87: right, there was the blogging effort, it kind of ran out of steam | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | I can help with that | 20:37 |
| david-lyle | The blog posts that happened in Kilo were spot on, I think | 20:37 |
| zaneb | yeah, the best info for the community is not just what did we decide | 20:37 |
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| flaper87 | but I think there should be more than 1 person behind this | 20:37 |
| zaneb | it's what were the issues and the different points of view | 20:38 |
| sdague | the problem mostly is the TC ends up super busy and it falls off people's plates | 20:38 |
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| ttx | ok, so we could continue the blogpost rotation idea | 20:38 |
| ttx | only more regular ?* | 20:38 |
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| maishsk | flaper87: +1 | 20:38 |
| zaneb | (btw I tried to blog this myself for a cycle back in I think Havana. it's super hard to keep up with) | 20:38 |
| ttx | like at every meeting, asking if it's time for a blog post and a volunteer ? | 20:38 |
| annegentle | what did people think of the "secretary" idea? | 20:38 |
| sdague | I also think every meeting is too much | 20:38 |
| ttx | annegentle: the "secretary" idea is fine if we have a volunteer | 20:39 |
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| dhellmann | it's too much, and not enough -- as ttx pointed out we don't discuss everything in the meetings | 20:39 |
| ttx | otherwise a rotation of volunteers sounds more likely | 20:39 |
| sdague | dhellmann: sorry, every week | 20:39 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: yeah, weekly seems excessive | 20:39 |
| sdague | I found the bunching up of 3 - 4 weeks ended up creating a more reasonable chunk of content in those pots | 20:39 |
| sdague | posts | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | yep | 20:39 |
| jgriffith | +1 for weekly | 20:39 |
| maishsk | ttx: I would be happy to start out as the volunteer. Just let me know what the process would be and the technical details | 20:39 |
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| annegentle | I think it's okay to have "this week in baseball" for the tc | 20:39 |
| ttx | sdague: how about at the end of every meeting, we ask ourselves if it's time for a blog post and a volunteer ? | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | the other question we didn't answer in that thread was what medium - blogs, emails to -dev, newsletter drop-ins? | 20:40 |
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| flaper87 | I don't think it's an actual problem if there's not enough content | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that seems like a good idea | 20:40 |
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| zaneb | I'd suggest 1 major topic per post. I'd guess that would end up being less often than weekly | 20:40 |
| annegentle | I think it's better to have one person be accountable. I can take this on. | 20:40 |
| jgriffith | ttx: seems reasonable | 20:40 |
| sdague | annegentle: you are awesome | 20:40 |
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| ttx | I think we failed to bring it back on the table often enough last cycle, but the concept was sound | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: I'm happy to help | 20:40 |
| annegentle | flaper87: awesome, thanks | 20:40 |
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| ttx | if we make it a regular meeting thing, that won't fall off the table* | 20:41 |
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| ttx | oh, we have a volunteer | 20:41 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: 2 :P | 20:41 |
| annegentle | I'll work on a comm plan that slices in with the weekly community newsletter from reed. Channel is tough here, I haven't dug into that completely. | 20:41 |
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| annegentle | ok | 20:41 |
| ttx | So.. annegentle as secretary and Flavio as co-secretary | 20:41 |
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| annegentle | TC Communication Chairs? | 20:42 |
| ttx | with resposibility to communicate TC activity out | 20:42 |
| sdague | annegentle: ++ | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:42 |
| sdague | I like that as a better title | 20:42 |
| sdague | T triple C | 20:42 |
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| flaper87 | annegentle: ++ | 20:42 |
| annegentle | heh | 20:42 |
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| ttx | Note that if I have my ways we'll have a number of subgroups in the TC taking on specific tasks. So the Communication subgroup would just be one of those | 20:43 |
| annegentle | that makes a lot of sense | 20:43 |
| ttx | #info annegentle and flaper87 to chair the TC communication | 20:44 |
| ttx | OK, moving on, lots to cover | 20:44 |
| ttx | annegentle: I'll let you come up with a plan ;) | 20:44 |
| ttx | #topic Changing the TC decision delays | 20:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Changing the TC decision delays (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:44 | |
| annegentle | got it | 20:44 |
| ttx | This is another TC process thing we might want to revisit | 20:44 |
| ttx | Currently the charter says that to be considered for TC meeting agenda, a given change / proposal needs to have been proposed "at least 4 business days before meeting" | 20:44 |
| ttx | The idea was to make sure that the community had plenty of time to comment on a proposal before we took a final decision on it | 20:45 |
| ttx | But: | 20:45 |
| ttx | - we no longer make decisions in meeting | 20:45 |
| ttx | - we have plenty of changes that could be discussed faster (like repo additions) | 20:45 |
| ttx | - most changes fly below radar anyway since they are not discussed in a ML thread (only on the Gerrit review) | 20:45 |
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| ttx | So I feel the old rule is no longer serving its purpose. Should we change it ? | 20:45 |
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| ttx | Like having different delays depending on the nature of the change ? | 20:45 |
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| anteaya | how would you categorize? | 20:46 |
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| ttx | and when should we force a discussion on the -dev ML ? | 20:46 |
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| dhellmann | I'm comfortable with giving the chair more leeway, but I do like the idea of a minimum amount of time for significant topics because of the nature of time zones | 20:46 |
| ttx | anteaya: well, we already do special case repository additions as "project list housekeeping" and fasttrack them | 20:46 |
| annegentle | which end goal are you trying for, buying more time for discussion or more strategic agendas? | 20:46 |
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| anteaya | ttx: okay that is a fairly clear category | 20:46 |
| jeblair | ttx: well, i think we addressed the repo thing recently with: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/commit/?id=321a020cbcaada01976478ea9f677ebb4df7bd6d | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | I also think we could probably skip discussing those housekeeping things at all in meeting, unless they are stalled | 20:47 |
| ttx | annegentle: I just had a bunch of repo additions posted Friday and those couldn't make the meeting agenda and felt sad | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:47 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yes please | 20:47 |
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| jeblair | ttx: oh, i see the distinction now | 20:47 |
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| annegentle | end goal: not make ttx sad | 20:47 |
| ttx | OK, so how about we skip repo additions and don't consider them TC stuff. I can let them bake at least one week to check for any -1 and approve them if they have PTL +1 and no TC -1 by then | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | so, concrete proposal: housekeeping and repository adds aren't discussed unless they are stalled for a week; other topics need 48 hours | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | heh | 20:48 |
| sdague | ttx: ++ | 20:48 |
| annegentle | I think that keeping a strategic agenda is important... timeliness matters | 20:48 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:49 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:49 |
| ttx | FOr other topics let's keep the "4 business days" but translate it as "posted before Thursday evening" | 20:49 |
| annegentle | so use the time for lots of discussions as needed | 20:49 |
| jeblair | ttx: both suggestions sound good to me | 20:49 |
| anteaya | ttx can we say it in utc? | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | ttx: repository additions affect voter roles, so I think we need to be taking explicit action to approve them | 20:49 |
| ttx | anteaya: before 0800 UTC Friday ? | 20:49 |
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| anteaya | ttx thank you | 20:50 |
| ttx | that's the time where I ususally cllect the agenda | 20:50 |
| ttx | collect* | 20:50 |
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| ttx | #agreed skip repo additions in TC meeting, let them bake at least one week to check for any -1 and approve them if they have PTL +1 and no TC -1 by then | 20:50 |
| jeblair | ttx: want to propose that as a governance change? | 20:50 |
| ttx | #agreed consider a change TC meeting material if posted before 0800 UTC Friday | 20:51 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes, I will propose that | 20:51 |
| ttx | just checking what would make sense | 20:51 |
| jeblair | ++ | 20:51 |
| ttx | #action ttx to propose governance change to match, if any | 20:51 |
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| ttx | Anything else on that topic ? | 20:52 |
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| ttx | Or on making our meeting generally more efficient ? | 20:52 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion: itches to scratch | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion: itches to scratch (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:52 | |
| ttx | As you know, I'd like the TC to be involved beyond setting governance and housekeeping projects list | 20:53 |
| ttx | I'd like TC members to dive into specific community problems. We can't expect every TC member to know all the issues | 20:53 |
| ttx | but we should be able to expect every TC member to be able to dive into a specific issue and report back to the group | 20:53 |
| ttx | So we should identify issues and create small groups of interested people to address them. | 20:53 |
| ttx | Doesn't have to be "all TC members" involved in every initiative, the subgroups would just report on their findings and the steps they followed | 20:53 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 20:53 |
| annegentle | subgroups ++ | 20:53 |
| ttx | As an example... Personally I think we need to better document the culture, what is expected of an OpenStack project team | 20:53 |
| jaypipes | that's what the working groups ideas are all about. | 20:53 |
| * jgriffith likes the idea alot | 20:53 | |
| ttx | Currently we rely on old wiki articles to explain how meetings should be held, what a PTL duties are, how to release stuff, what is acceptable in a stable branch, etc | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | ttx: that first example is something that I definitely want to tackle | 20:54 |
| ttx | For a newcomer project there is no practical way to discover all that stuff. And yet we expect them to "behave like an OpenStack project" | 20:54 |
| ttx | So I think we need to produce a "OpenStack project team guide", and I'd like to lead that | 20:54 |
| ttx | Join my subgroup! | 20:54 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: cound me in | 20:54 |
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| ttx | Any pet project / issue YOU would like to help solving ? | 20:54 |
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| flaper87 | count | 20:54 |
| * dhellmann takes one step forward | 20:54 | |
| annegentle | Comms! | 20:54 |
| * annegentle recruits dhellmann | 20:55 | |
| ttx | flaper87: you will soon learn not to volunteer for everything :) | 20:55 |
| anteaya | ttx: dhellmann wrote most of this as a starting point: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/creators.html | 20:55 |
| ttx | Other idea, I'd love people looking into specific projects and report dysfunction / culture divergence there | 20:55 |
| sdague | I wanted to socialize the compute kernel tag I posted, which came after the deadline this, week, but I expect to create some vibrant discussions | 20:55 |
| annegentle | ttx: hm | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | ttx: hahaha, everyone tells me that :D | 20:55 |
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| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180112/ | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | how do people feel about the cross-project specs repo? we have quite a few specs up for review in a repo we nominally manage: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack%2Fopenstack-specs+is:open,n,z | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: count me | 20:56 |
| ttx | #info jeblair, flaper87, dhellmann and ttx to start workign on a project team guide to replace wiki and oral tradition | 20:56 |
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| jeblair | sdague: thank you for doing that | 20:56 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: did that come out of the ops meetup? | 20:56 |
| sdague | dhellmann: the demand for it did | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | I think another good subgroup would be helping with OPs issues. Syncing more often and bringing back feedback/issues/etc | 20:57 |
| ttx | dhellmann: so that is a good topic. What to do with cross-project specs and meeting | 20:57 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: good | 20:57 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I wouldn't describe the ones we had in Kilo as a full success | 20:57 |
| ttx | and I'd gladly defer that to a subgroup | 20:57 |
| ttx | (if only becaus ethat meetign is at 11pm) | 20:57 |
| markmcclain | ttx: I do like the idea of working with projects to identify areas for improvement and encourage best practices… wondering how the PTLs will accept us parachuting in and telling what's wrong or should we use tagging to identify the projects that self-selection for evaluation? | 20:57 |
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| ttx | markmcclain: I think we are in our role when we point out where they no longer behave like "one of us" | 20:58 |
| sdague | markmcclain: I think with all such things, it's going to need to be some bottom up heavy lifting as well | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, I'm not sure that meeting is the best way to handle them, but I don't have a better idea, yet | 20:58 |
| ttx | since that is what we now judge for inclusion in the bigtent | 20:58 |
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| ttx | markmcclain: part of it is also to expose issues that everyone knows and discuss them in the open | 20:59 |
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| annegentle | markmcclain: yeah that summarizes my hm... feels a little like a policing thing? | 20:59 |
| ttx | rather than only after hours ranting drown in beers | 20:59 |
| annegentle | ttx: but yeah, get issues in the open safely | 20:59 |
| ttx | annegentle, markmcclain: agree it's a touchy subject | 20:59 |
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| ttx | Also maybe premature if we don't have the "here is how to do it" doc | 21:00 |
| ttx | anyway, time is up | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 21:00 |
| NobodyCam | thank you | 21:00 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:00 |
| markmcclain | I think cleaning up our docs and maybe find a few friendly projects to test what the process would look like | 21:00 |
| jeblair | ttx: thanks! | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | markmcclain: you'd need diverse projects though | 21:00 |
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| annegentle | thanks ttx | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 5 21:01:02 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-05-05-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | flaper87: agreed | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-05-05-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-05-05-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone, was good start I think | 21:01 |
| jeblair | ++ | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 21:01 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the cross-project meeting? | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | courtesy PTL ping: devananda, dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, gordc, nikhil_k, thingee, stevebaker, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, johnthetubaguy | 21:01 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| ttx | oh dims ^ | 21:01 |
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| * jgriffith is here for thingee | 21:01 | |
| dims | :) | 21:01 |
| ttx | missed one edit there | 21:01 |
| dims | o/ | 21:01 |
| edleafe | o/ | 21:01 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:01 |
| geoffarnold | 0/ | 21:02 |
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| geoffarnold | o/ | 21:02 |
| morganfainberg | O/ | 21:02 |
| * jogo lurks | 21:02 | |
| jokke_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 21:02 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:02 |
| sarob | o/ | 21:02 |
| * dims may have to drop off | 21:02 | |
| morganfainberg | But semi-lurking. Doing some summit prep things in-person. | 21:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 5 21:02:38 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 21:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #topic Kilo release postmortem (ttx) | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo release postmortem (ttx) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| ttx | I'd like to start with a quick Kilo release postmortem | 21:03 |
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| ttx | Overall I think we really needed the 6 weeks between feature freeze and final | 21:03 |
| jokke_ | ++ | 21:03 |
| ttx | We were slightly early on getting FFEs in, which was good | 21:03 |
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| ttx | Then RC1s were generally on time | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | how many rcs did we end up spinning? | 21:03 |
| ttx | But we lost out safety-valve week with the stable/kilo requirements mess, which delayed the RC2s | 21:03 |
| ttx | And then we were a bit in a hurry on release week with late RC3s | 21:04 |
| egon | \o | 21:04 |
| ttx | dhellmann: we had 3 RC3s | 21:04 |
| ttx | Nova, Neutron and Barbican | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | ok, that's what I remembered | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | we have a session for the summit to figure out the requirements management dance better for next time | 21:04 |
| ttx | (which raises another question onto how far coordination should reach in a bigtent world | 21:04 |
| ttx | We also have a cross-project session about release models | 21:05 |
| sdague | we also did some stuff earlier, like the upgrade testing before the release was out, which exposed at least one critical bug that forced some of the RC | 21:05 |
| ttx | sdague: on the good side, cutting stable/kilo pre-release sure made post-release calm | 21:05 |
| sdague | so, it was both pain, as well as catching a regression that we'd never have caught before | 21:05 |
| ttx | I hope we'll fix the process around requirements and the cutting of release branches before Liberty release and that we'll get it right this time | 21:05 |
| ttx | But in the mean time the Liberty release cycle maintains 6 weeks between FF and final | 21:05 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | yes, I think tightening up the acls on those branches during the pre-release period, and recruiting a few folks to help with the work, will make that go more smoothly next time | 21:06 |
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| jokke_ | Personally I think that the stable branches on the libs/clients will most probably make the life much easier in the future | 21:06 |
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| ttx | We need to find ways to distribute release management a bit more, the centralized thing doesn't work so well now | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | ttx: did we decide the library freeze a week before L3 was "official" enough to add to that schedule? | 21:06 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I'd be fine with that. I kind of wanted to wait until that design summit session about library releases | 21:07 |
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| dhellmann | ah, right, I'll wait | 21:07 |
| ttx | Any other remark on the release process ? | 21:07 |
| * nikhil_k_ sneaks in | 21:08 | |
| ttx | sarob: you around? | 21:08 |
| sarob | hello | 21:08 |
| ttx | oh I see you | 21:08 |
| ttx | #topic Project Work Group - Charter, Deliverables and Work Flow discussion | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project Work Group - Charter, Deliverables and Work Flow discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:08 | |
| sarob | o/ | 21:08 |
| ttx | sarob: floor is yours | 21:08 |
| Shamail | Hi all! Nice to meet most of you. | 21:08 |
| sarob | thanks | 21:08 |
| barrett | Greetings! | 21:08 |
| geoffarnold | hi | 21:08 |
| sarob | anyone else from project wg? | 21:09 |
| geoffarnold | Product WG,I think | 21:09 |
| sarob | okay lets start | 21:09 |
| sarob | oops | 21:09 |
| sarob | product, yes | 21:09 |
| sarob | so we started working on the idea that there are "hidden influencers" | 21:10 |
| Rockyg | Hey! | 21:10 |
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| sarob | about a year plus ago | 21:10 |
| sarob | started as a side board meeting discussion | 21:10 |
| sarob | and it turned into the product team working group | 21:10 |
| sarob | we had a F2F about 5 months ago | 21:11 |
| sarob | and worked out what we were attempting to accomplish | 21:11 |
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| sarob | its to create a multi-release roadmap | 21:11 |
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| sarob | i spoke to the board some about the concept | 21:12 |
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| sarob | so we became a "working group" like win the enterprise, application, and others | 21:12 |
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| sarob | barrett: you want to give a bit too here? | 21:13 |
| barrett | sarob: Sure | 21:13 |
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| barrett | The work group has drafted a mission and objectives | 21:13 |
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| barrett | In Vancouver we're planning a couple of conference sessions and 2 working sessions. | 21:14 |
| barrett | We wanted to come to this group and share what we've developed and get your feedback to improve it | 21:14 |
| barrett | You can find this info at this link: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1pSvfn9IOMLw1KTawzlxSlu1R_bTXWmAjh0IRIifN4Jo/edit?usp=sharing | 21:14 |
| sarob | so these slide go into great detail | 21:16 |
| barrett | We'd also like to gain support for folks from this group to join our cross work group/project working session at the Summit, to help us refine our work flow and deliverables, and how we work together | 21:16 |
| sarob | slides that is | 21:16 |
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| barrett | Slide 4 might be a good one to look at | 21:16 |
| sarob | we have a summarized proposed workflow https://docs.google.com/document/d/13JPDDiBGGXf5dtP0u8C-1So2Mjb3yEmGhv_ijVqyEf0/edit?usp=sharing | 21:16 |
| ttx | barrett: did you retain the idea of acting like a funnel to coalesce all the downstream stakeholders input and present it upstream ? | 21:17 |
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| barrett | ttx: yes | 21:17 |
| lifeless | o/ here now | 21:17 |
| ttx | because I know part of the difficulty of the PTL prioritization job is to have clear input to work from, and there are many special interest WG out there now :) | 21:17 |
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| ttx | barrett: great | 21:18 |
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| barrett | We are looking to connect with community groups at the summit and figure out how we work together. | 21:18 |
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| sarob | product wg is meant to help with communication between different groups | 21:18 |
| barrett | Potentially, we could also play a role in the cross-project communication process... | 21:19 |
| ttx | Quick background info for PTLs listening: the product WG could reach out to various stakeholders (large deployment WG, Win the Enterprise WG, ops, Telco WG etc...) and try to extract key priorities so that we don't have to wade through a pile of disconnected data | 21:19 |
| ttx | and produce a unified report for us to include in our prioritization work | 21:20 |
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| sarob | yup | 21:20 |
| sarob | said it better than i could have | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | is work already ongoing to do that for the ops meetup etherpads? | 21:21 |
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| sarob | gathering information for PTLs? | 21:21 |
| ttx | PTLS: would such a unified report be useful input ? | 21:22 |
| barrett | We started data mining the previous Ops Meetup etherpads to identify use cases | 21:22 |
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| dhellmann | sarob: yes - there are a bunch of etherpads with notes that sort of only make sense if you were in the room. It would be useful to have someone turn those into prose, in focused chunks. | 21:22 |
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| barrett | In vancouver, we're working on a schedule to cover different sessions in the Ops Summit to gather more use cases and enlist Operators help in documenting them and checking them. | 21:23 |
| sarob | dhellmann: yup, that def part of it | 21:23 |
| Rockyg | so, dhellmann, yes. | 21:23 |
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| dhellmann | ok, good! | 21:23 |
| sarob | the workflow is very similar to defcore | 21:23 |
| notmyname | ttx: I think a report might be useful. I don't know. is there any feedback the other way? how do the PTLs figure out if implementing the stuff the product WG says has made any measurable impact on anything? | 21:23 |
| sarob | to get this to be part of the schedule | 21:23 |
| notmyname | I get the feeling (so far) that this will be another voice asking for "stuff". there's no shortage of that now | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | sarob: I hope the turn-around time is quicker? :-) | 21:24 |
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| dhellmann | notmyname: yeah, I think the idea here is to collect all of those voices so there's a bit more coherence | 21:24 |
| Shamail | :x | 21:24 |
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| ttx | notmyname: I hope that the product WG could reduce the noise rather than increase it | 21:25 |
| Rockyg | ttx: ++ | 21:25 |
| sarob | the workflow allows for the community to vote on use cases | 21:25 |
| sarob | with a deadline | 21:25 |
| jogo | who does the work in the end though? | 21:26 |
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| sarob | then the PTLs get a crack at them | 21:26 |
| Rockyg | by distilling the asks to a readable format, it allows for better prioritzation for implementation | 21:26 |
| sarob | the PTLs would need to decide if the use cases make sense | 21:26 |
| jogo | PTLs != the boss of a project they cannot mandate things being done | 21:26 |
| jogo | they are the chief cat herder | 21:27 |
| barrett | jogo: developers in the community. Some members of the Product WG have the ability to influence and align the development priorities in our companies with the priorities of the community | 21:27 |
| Shamail | barrett: +1 | 21:27 |
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| sarob | jogo: CCH | 21:27 |
| gordc | barrett: is there a breakdown on what companes are represented? | 21:27 |
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| sarob | gordc: right now we are only reflecting back what | 21:28 |
| barrett | Yes - Though I don't think I can produce a complete one right now. But it includes: Intel, Huawei, EMC, Red Hat, Dell, | 21:28 |
| sarob | gordc: the PTLs have told us | 21:28 |
| geoffarnold | Cisco | 21:28 |
| sarob | and Akanda! | 21:29 |
| barrett | geoffarnold: Thanks | 21:29 |
| barrett | ditto sarob | 21:29 |
| sarob | but the companies involved have not created use cases | 21:29 |
| sarob | yet, and thats the red mat | 21:29 |
| sarob | meat | 21:29 |
| Rockyg | sarob: ++ | 21:29 |
| ttx | Red Mat. I like it | 21:30 |
| sarob | we have only created the process | 21:30 |
| gordc | sarob: barrett: cool cool. i guess if all the politics is shielded from us, that'd be nice. :) | 21:30 |
| barrett | Our goal is to increase the number of companies participating and get a direct connection with Operators too - This is how the use cases will get developed | 21:30 |
| * sarob thinks in redmat | 21:30 | |
| dhellmann | sarob: the red mat goes with the Red Hat, right? | 21:30 |
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| sarob | i think its WWF sneaking in | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | sarob, barrett : it might be useful to have your input on this ML thread: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-May/thread.html#63065 | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | jogo: I agree ptl is Cheif cat herder. | 21:32 |
| sarob | on the red mat | 21:32 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann: we've already been discussing this on our ml | 21:32 |
| ttx | and TC members are global cat herders | 21:32 |
| barrett | dhellmann - Who votes for TC members? | 21:33 |
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| dhellmann | barrett: yes | 21:33 |
| ttx | barrett: the cats | 21:33 |
| * jogo wonders who cleans out the litter box | 21:33 | |
| dhellmann | Rockyg: why not on the thread itself? | 21:33 |
| ttx | jogo: I assumed you did | 21:33 |
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| morganfainberg | ttx: yeah jogo and sdague | 21:33 |
| sarob | yeah, reading thread | 21:33 |
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| ttx | barrett: that's what lets us be cat herders. The fact that cats elect us. | 21:33 |
| sarob | strong user committee, is part of this for sure | 21:34 |
| Rockyg | Well, I'm trying to get them to respond. I don't want to be the only one posting on the dev ml in the group ;-) | 21:34 |
| ttx | otherwise cats would just bite us. | 21:34 |
| barrett | ttx: gotcha | 21:34 |
| Shamail | We're with you Rockyg. :-) | 21:34 |
| sarob | plus getting product minded people that are making openstack stuff to sell | 21:34 |
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| sarob | we need to get them involved as well | 21:34 |
| sarob | so they are asking for features to be landed at the right time | 21:35 |
| barrett | I think the Product WG can support this by enlisting the hidden influencers in each company that provides development resources to the community | 21:35 |
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| sarob | and not when they are freaking out | 21:35 |
| geoffarnold | So the alternative is that every downstream group (win the enterprise, operators, nfv, etc.) winds up lobbying/negotiating with every PTL individually. Does this idea help the process? | 21:35 |
| reed | dhellmann, re: why not on the thread itself : because some times groups need to discuss separately and form opinions as a group | 21:35 |
| sarob | barrett: +1 | 21:35 |
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| dhellmann | reed: I guess? It's not like my participation there is on behalf of the TC. | 21:36 |
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| notmyname | when is this WG planning on producing the first of these documents? | 21:36 |
| ttx | sarob: Any specific action you need out of this discussion ? We shall move on to next topics in ~5min | 21:36 |
| sarob | oh, yeah | 21:36 |
| sarob | so aside from general feedback on our direction | 21:37 |
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| Rockyg | notmyname: we're planning to get a lot of work done at the summit, so shortly after? | 21:37 |
| sarob | the workflow is very actionable | 21:37 |
| Rockyg | reed: thanks ;-) | 21:37 |
| barrett | ttx: We'd like feedback on the model and agreement from some of the PTLs/TC to join our working session on 5/18 at 3:40 in room 212 | 21:37 |
| ttx | sarob: I think we are all at the very least curious to see what you come up with :) | 21:37 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann: If I don't see a post by this afternoon, I'll do one on that thread. | 21:37 |
| sarob | ttx: i'd like to get feedback on the workflow time and actions | 21:38 |
| ttx | barrett: Woo, PTLs and TC members for 40min in summit week. Do you feel lucky ? | 21:38 |
| Rockyg | We don't need them *all*. Just the friendly ones. | 21:38 |
| barrett | ttx: Always! | 21:38 |
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| sarob | barrett: yeah, that too! | 21:38 |
| Shamail | ttx: I'm in Vegas so I do feel lucky. | 21:38 |
| ttx | Also I'm giving my talk at that time, so without me | 21:38 |
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| ttx | and without sdague since he is giving the talk with me | 21:38 |
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| sarob | thanks for hearing us out | 21:39 |
| barrett | If a couple of folks can join, we'll get a lot more done in that 40 mins then we'll get done in the next 4 weeks! | 21:39 |
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| sarob | looking forward to what y'all come up with | 21:39 |
| barrett | Appreciate the time and discussion | 21:39 |
| Shamail | Thanks for your time. | 21:39 |
| geoffarnold | thanks | 21:40 |
| barrett | Thanks | 21:40 |
| ttx | sarob, barrett, Shamail: thx for taking the time to present here | 21:40 |
| * sarob steps off the redmat | 21:40 | |
| ttx | #topic Design Summit scheduling | 21:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit scheduling (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:40 | |
| ttx | The Design Summit schedule is starting to be more detailed at: | 21:40 |
| ttx | #link https://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/ | 21:40 |
| ttx | About half of the tracks have pushed detailed descriptions at this point | 21:40 |
| ttx | Ideally we would have near-final content before the end of this week | 21:41 |
| ttx | So we can discuss last-minute conflicts at this same meeting next week | 21:41 |
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| ttx | That said if you already see obvious scheduling conflicts, we can try to use this meeting to resolve them | 21:41 |
| ttx | Any you can see ? | 21:42 |
| morganfainberg | It looks ok to me ATM. | 21:42 |
| notmyname | I'm still seeing a discrepency between that schedule and the one on the main site | 21:42 |
| ttx | In other news, only a couple tracks made active use of the "Also appears in..." feature | 21:43 |
| ttx | if you see any session that could also appear in another track, let me know | 21:43 |
| stevebaker | ttx: what is the process for pushing the schedule up? | 21:43 |
| notmyname | very cool feature. i love it | 21:43 |
| ttx | notmyname: where ? | 21:43 |
| * notmyname has used ops and zaqar | 21:43 | |
| notmyname | ttx: getting a link from the other one | 21:43 |
| ttx | stevebaker: you should have received an email from me on that | 21:43 |
| ttx | couple weeks ago | 21:43 |
| * ttx checks | 21:43 | |
| stevebaker | ttx: found it | 21:44 |
| ttx | Subject: "Design Summit Scheduling -- Introducing Cheddar" | 21:44 |
| notmyname | ttx: found it. aparantly it had changed titles. all is ok | 21:44 |
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| ttx | notmyname: cool! | 21:45 |
| ttx | OK, so if you haven't pushed your schedule yet, please do so ASAP. We'll use the meeting next week to solve last-minute conflicts and to do that we need all posted | 21:46 |
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| ttx | Questions on design summit ? | 21:46 |
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| ttx | annegentle: I have a Design Summit 101 session at the start again. Would you be available ? Anyone else interested in moderating that ? | 21:47 |
| ttx | Not sure we'll have Loic around this time | 21:47 |
| reed | ttx, I'm avaible, Loic told me he won't be in YVR | 21:47 |
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| ttx | ok, if we have no questions or conflicts to solve, then... | 21:49 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion & announcements | 21:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:49 | |
| reed | I'd like to ask people to sort and tag bugs as low-hanging-fruit | 21:49 |
| ttx | for use in mentoring ? upstream university ? | 21:50 |
| reed | I'll be asking participants to Upstream Training to select bugs for them, simple ones | 21:50 |
| ttx | ack | 21:50 |
| reed | so they can be trained on real life scenarios | 21:50 |
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| reed | there are very few lhf bugs at the moment | 21:50 |
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| reed | tag them and don't get tempted to solve them too :) they're quick fix but they're great to teach people about our processes | 21:51 |
| ttx | #info Please sort and tag bugs as low-hanging-fruit so that reed can use them in Upstream Training | 21:51 |
| reed | I think some projects don't have low-hanging-fruit tag either | 21:51 |
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| ttx | reed: anyone can set it, doesn't have to be an "official" tag | 21:52 |
| reed | ok | 21:52 |
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| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:53 |
| reed | If anyone wants to mentor in UPstream Training, I would use more help :) | 21:53 |
| reed | free drinks in YVR for those that sign up on wiki/Mentors :) | 21:53 |
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| ttx | all week? | 21:54 |
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| notmyname | ttx: all the water you can drink | 21:55 |
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| sarob | reed: i will be available on sunday | 21:55 |
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| reed | sarob, cool, get to play with legos | 21:55 |
| sarob | reed: first summit sunday in forever | 21:56 |
| sarob | reed: actually ever | 21:56 |
| reed | indeed, Whoever comes on Sunday plays with Legos! | 21:56 |
| sarob | redmat? | 21:57 |
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| reed | :) | 21:57 |
| ttx | ok, time is up | 21:57 |
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| ttx | Thanks for coming | 21:57 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 5 21:58:00 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-05-05-21.02.html | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-05-05-21.02.txt | 21:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-05-05-21.02.log.html | 21:58 |
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| annegent_ | ttx: sorry just saw your question, yes I can help with 101 (cc reed) | 21:59 |
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| reed | cool | 22:00 |
| annegent_ | I'll also look for lhf | 22:00 |
| ttx | annegent_: thx! | 22:01 |
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