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| crinkle | #startmeeting puppet-openstack | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | crinkle: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. Use #endmeeting first. | 14:00 |
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| mfisch | can we end someone else's meeting? | 14:01 |
| crinkle | #endmeeting | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 2 14:01:33 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-02-27-00.01.html | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-02-27-00.01.txt | 14:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-02-27-00.01.log.html | 14:01 |
| crinkle | apparently | 14:01 |
| crinkle | #startmeeting puppet-openstack | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 2 14:01:47 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is crinkle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'puppet_openstack' | 14:01 |
| crinkle | o/ | 14:01 |
| mdorman | Morning | 14:02 |
| sbadia | o/ | 14:02 |
| mfisch | bon matin mes amis | 14:02 |
| sbadia | mfisch: :-D | 14:02 |
| crinkle | #topic philadelphia midcycle | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "philadelphia midcycle (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 14:02 | |
| mfisch | crinkle: so it seems to me that we may only have 3-4 of the folks who typically contribute at the meeting | 14:03 |
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| mfisch | crinkle: I have 2 thoughts, either we meet at lunch and just talk puppet cards/issues or maybe we meet and offer a working session to help & encourage new contributors | 14:04 |
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| mfisch | the latter could even be helping someone push a patch | 14:04 |
| crinkle | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/philadelphia-puppet-ops-session | 14:05 |
| crinkle | that sounds good to me | 14:05 |
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| crinkle | the second item on that list should wait for the summit, and the other two aren't really very actionable | 14:05 |
| mdorman | The second idea would probably draw more people | 14:06 |
| mfisch | Im fine just talking shop with you guys for a bit | 14:06 |
| mdorman | Mfisch's second idea that is | 14:06 |
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| crinkle | when would we offer that? | 14:06 |
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| mfisch | if we want to do my 2nd idea we can announce on the ops list or discuss with tom | 14:06 |
| mdorman | Oh I thought you meant do that at lunch | 14:06 |
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| mfisch | we could do it there | 14:08 |
| mdorman | Tbh I'm not sure there will be much time outside the meet up itself. There should be some dinner event on Monday | 14:08 |
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| mdorman | I imagine a lot of people are flying out Tuesday evening | 14:09 |
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| mfisch | yeah | 14:10 |
| mfisch | we dont have enough critical mass for a room I guess | 14:10 |
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| mfisch | crinkle: lets just plan on having lunch together on monday? | 14:12 |
| crinkle | works for me | 14:13 |
| mfisch | I can also stand-up and give a short blurb about the community and that we have people who can help if you want to contrib | 14:13 |
| crinkle | that would be awesome | 14:13 |
| mdorman | Sounds good to me too | 14:14 |
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| crinkle | anything else on that topic? | 14:16 |
| mfisch | nope | 14:16 |
| crinkle | #topic open discussion | 14:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: puppet-openstack)" | 14:16 | |
| mfisch | I have a topic | 14:16 |
| mfisch | has anyone been able to get puppet to work with the keystone service token disabled? | 14:16 |
| mfisch | I'd like to be able to bootstrap and then stop using it | 14:16 |
| crinkle | you should be able to now with the rewritten keystone providers | 14:17 |
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| mfisch | crinkle: any hints? | 14:17 |
| crinkle | if you run `puppet describe keystone_tenant` it should talk about the auth param | 14:17 |
| mfisch | okay I'll dig a bit | 14:18 |
| crinkle | you can pass credentials in | 14:18 |
| crinkle | cool | 14:18 |
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| mfisch | it did seem to be that it was trying to use the token for most queries | 14:19 |
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| crinkle | yeah that shouldn't be necessary any more | 14:20 |
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| crinkle | anything else? | 14:21 |
| crinkle | #endmeeting | 14:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:22 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 2 14:22:38 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:22 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-03-02-14.01.html | 14:22 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-03-02-14.01.txt | 14:22 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/puppet_openstack/2015/puppet_openstack.2015-03-02-14.01.log.html | 14:22 |
| mfisch | I had something but I have a prod issue now... thx crinkle | 14:22 |
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| mdorman | Thanks crinkle | 14:23 |
| crinkle | o/ | 14:23 |
| sbadia | thx everyone | 14:23 |
| mdorman | See you all next week | 14:23 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 2 15:00:49 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 15:00 |
| patrickeast | hello | 15:01 |
| rhe00 | hi | 15:01 |
| wznoinsk | hi | 15:01 |
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| anteaya | hi folks | 15:01 |
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| anteaya | how is everyone today | 15:01 |
| patrickeast | good, yourself? | 15:01 |
| rhe00 | it's Monday | 15:02 |
| wznoinsk | all good, thanks | 15:02 |
| anteaya | good glad to hear it | 15:02 |
| anteaya | any thoughts on what folks would like to discuss today? | 15:02 |
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| anteaya | perhaps it being monday things haven't had a chance to break yet? | 15:03 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: you had some questions at the end of last week, did you get the answers you were looking for? | 15:04 |
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| wznoinsk | yes, I did, will talk to Nova guys once I'm ready to comment back, got added to Third Party Gerrit Group to avoid spam as well | 15:04 |
| anteaya | good work | 15:05 |
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| anteaya | asking for permission to comment on patches is best done at the nova meeting | 15:05 |
| anteaya | add an agenda item when you are ready | 15:05 |
| anteaya | then the discussion can be logged | 15:05 |
| anteaya | make sense | 15:05 |
| anteaya | ? | 15:06 |
| wznoinsk | yes, will do | 15:06 |
| rhe00 | so we have to ask the Nova group for permission to comment even though we comment on Cinder patches? | 15:06 |
| anteaya | okay great | 15:06 |
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| anteaya | yes | 15:06 |
| anteaya | every project is different | 15:06 |
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| anteaya | is taht news to you? | 15:06 |
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| anteaya | I'm interested in how you see things | 15:07 |
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| rhe00 | that is news, but if that is the process then I'm fine with that | 15:07 |
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| anteaya | okay well let me take a minute and share some information | 15:07 |
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| patrickeast | i had assumed voting for sure was per project, but commenting was fair game as long as it was actually relelveent, makes ense though to ask first | 15:07 |
| anteaya | are you aware that openstack is comprised of separate projects? | 15:08 |
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| patrickeast | relevent* even | 15:08 |
| wznoinsk | I think the lack of that req in the 3rd party ci setup guide makes a bit of confusion - I know the rework of the docs is undergoing so we have to live with a few discrepancies for that short time | 15:08 |
| anteaya | it won't be a requirement | 15:08 |
| anteaya | since there are some situations like grandfathering where folks didn't ask | 15:08 |
| rhe00 | yes, but I thought we were only commenting and voting on Cinder if we are in the Cinder group | 15:09 |
| anteaya | in the infra third party ci document, requriements are the things you have to do to avoid having your account disabled by infra | 15:09 |
| anteaya | important things like providing logs | 15:09 |
| anteaya | and having timestamps in the logs | 15:09 |
| anteaya | I think part of the problem is taht many third party ci folks only see the world through their eyes, we have to do this thing | 15:10 |
| rhe00 | is there a max time limit for how long the test is allowed to take before producing a result on a patch? | 15:10 |
| anteaya | and never see the world from the other side | 15:10 |
| anteaya | the side of the developer | 15:10 |
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| anteaya | have any of you ever submitted patches to a project? | 15:10 |
| wznoinsk | possibly if I'd see 'it's worth mentoning or asking for permission* on commenting' I'd go to the meeting and talk, not having it htere equals is not required so given the guide is a finished list people are surprised it's actually a good practice still | 15:10 |
| anteaya | politeness and ettiquette | 15:11 |
| anteaya | they matter | 15:11 |
| wznoinsk | true, as much as documentation | 15:11 |
| anteaya | and people are suprised because they think that once the tick off all the things that they are done | 15:11 |
| anteaya | you will see in the requirements that folks are supposded to be available for conversation | 15:11 |
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| anteaya | including participating on irc | 15:11 |
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| wznoinsk | I am, I wouldn't realize I have to ask for permission if I wouldn't catch Mellanox emails on ML | 15:12 |
| anteaya | Maintainers are encouraged to be in IRC regularly to make it faster to contact them. | 15:12 |
| anteaya | well you asked on irc | 15:12 |
| anteaya | right? | 15:12 |
| anteaya | to clarify | 15:12 |
| anteaya | so that fits the requirement | 15:12 |
| anteaya | things change all the time | 15:13 |
| anteaya | and part of the problem with having a list is that people check off the items and think they are done | 15:13 |
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| wznoinsk | Mellanox ci was suspended cause they didn't ask for permission to comment, that was a thread on mailing list | 15:13 |
| anteaya | and then they get defensive if things change | 15:13 |
| anteaya | since they figure that they shouldn't be expected to do that | 15:13 |
| anteaya | Mellanox ci isn't suspended | 15:13 |
| anteaya | never was as a result of that email | 15:14 |
| wznoinsk | with someting as complex we have to follow a list, if asking for permission is only a curtosy suspending CIs shouldn't be depend on that | 15:14 |
| anteaya | nowhere in that email did it say that account is disabled | 15:14 |
| anteaya | right | 15:14 |
| anteaya | which is why it isn't a requirment | 15:14 |
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| anteaya | since I only will disable accounts under special circumstances for that | 15:14 |
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| anteaya | comment on infra patches without jim's permisison and you will be suspended | 15:15 |
| anteaya | or disabled is the word I use | 15:15 |
| anteaya | all others have a conversation | 15:15 |
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| anteaya | which is what we are having | 15:15 |
| anteaya | and you are paying attention and present on irc and asking | 15:15 |
| anteaya | which are all the things I look for in Maintainers are encouraged to be in IRC regularly to make it faster to contact them. | 15:16 |
| rhe00 | so are we supposed to comment on glance, horizon, etc as well? just asking to make sure I am not missing one component | 15:16 |
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| anteaya | supposed to comment | 15:16 |
| wznoinsk | so in general, makes some noise and confusion if it's not in the docs to represent it on irc/ask for permission, work for you guys especially | 15:16 |
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| anteaya | the optimum for OpenStack is if you don't comment on anything ever | 15:16 |
| anteaya | since having accounts commenting is really a drain on resources for all of openstack developers | 15:16 |
| anteaya | it is only because vendors insist on having drivers that I was forced to set up this line of communicaiton in the first place | 15:17 |
| rhe00 | by commenting I mean SUCCESS / FAILURE | 15:17 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: can you rephrase? | 15:17 |
| anteaya | rhe00: right, yes I know | 15:17 |
| anteaya | keep in mind I am a woman, not a guy | 15:18 |
| anteaya | infra had the tools but noone knew how to set them up | 15:18 |
| anteaya | we had thought folks in this space could serve themselves | 15:18 |
| wznoinsk | the confusion makes work for you, rhe00 seems to be new to the 'ask for permission' thing, so a lot of people by the looks of things | 15:18 |
| anteaya | and would understand the developer's perspective | 15:19 |
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| anteaya | wznoinsk: third party ci makes work for me | 15:19 |
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| anteaya | the optimum is if everyone was like dan prince | 15:19 |
| anteaya | and was a developer as well | 15:19 |
| anteaya | most third party ci operators have no idea what the developer experience is | 15:20 |
| wznoinsk | so maybe that should be in 3rd party meetings agenda to have 'best practice' for newcomers | 15:20 |
| anteaya | I'm fine with that | 15:20 |
| anteaya | given your experience thus far | 15:20 |
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| anteaya | what would you suggest as best practices? | 15:20 |
| anteaya | top of my list is submit a patch to a project and understand what the developer experience is | 15:21 |
| anteaya | that never seems to happen | 15:21 |
| wznoinsk | drop in for a 3rd party meeting and present your new ci at least once | 15:21 |
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| anteaya | what is the definiton of present your new ci? | 15:21 |
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| patrickeast | ^ that happens at the thirdparty working group meetings | 15:22 |
| patrickeast | there has been a few “show and tell”s | 15:22 |
| anteaya | that can happen at all meetings | 15:22 |
| wznoinsk | patrickeast: yes, but that's for already working/stable ones I guess rather for newbies | 15:22 |
| anteaya | all I need is people doing it | 15:22 |
| asselin_ | hi | 15:22 |
| anteaya | which is why I started off by asking what folks wanted to talk about | 15:22 |
| anteaya | hey asselin_ | 15:22 |
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| anteaya | wznoinsk: do you want to present your ci? | 15:23 |
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| patrickeast | wznoinsk: gotcha, so you mean more like a ci review or something for new ones? | 15:23 |
| anteaya | or what would you tell someone who did so? | 15:23 |
| wznoinsk | anteaya: I do agree, it's all about people, but I take their side why they're confused if there's only a suggestion to be on irc and not even something 'if your project is nova, cinder please ask for permission or attend a metting to introduce yourself/your ci' | 15:23 |
| anteaya | that is fine | 15:23 |
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| anteaya | and I can appreciate that perspective | 15:23 |
| anteaya | what you don't have is any idea of how your work affects the developer | 15:24 |
| anteaya | as they are the one that has to consume your output | 15:24 |
| anteaya | which isnt' your fault | 15:24 |
| anteaya | it is common | 15:24 |
| anteaya | because most manger's don't see that as a necessity | 15:24 |
| anteaya | to take the time to do that | 15:24 |
| anteaya | and it isn't on the check list | 15:24 |
| anteaya | and won't be | 15:25 |
| anteaya | but the difference between a functioning ci and a great one | 15:25 |
| anteaya | is the extent to which the operator understands the dev perspective | 15:25 |
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| wznoinsk | well I'm a software engineer aka developer (new to this world but still), I have the CI task to ramp and troubleshoot the neutron/nova/devstack in containers stuff by the way | 15:25 |
| wznoinsk | anteaya: I do understand that, hence we have you between Ci ops and devs right? ;-) | 15:25 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: yeah I know | 15:26 |
| rhe00 | I'm a developer and CI operator | 15:26 |
| anteaya | which is why you get the responses you do | 15:26 |
| anteaya | rhe00: you have patches submitted to openstack projects? | 15:26 |
| anteaya | rhe00: you have experience consuming other third party ci log output? | 15:26 |
| rhe00 | well, only a driver so far. | 15:27 |
| anteaya | well try to expand yourself a bit | 15:27 |
| anteaya | fix a bug | 15:27 |
| anteaya | consume other third party ci output | 15:27 |
| anteaya | then you will be able to increase your value in the communtiy | 15:27 |
| rhe00 | yes, I have asked a couple of vendors to help me look at their failure outputs | 15:27 |
| anteaya | since you will be able to experience what life is like for other devs | 15:27 |
| anteaya | rhe00: awesome | 15:27 |
| patrickeast | i think maybe just consuming the thirdparty output and knowing the rules about adding a new ci are not quite the same… | 15:28 |
| anteaya | care to discribe that experience? | 15:28 |
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| anteaya | patrickeast: go on | 15:28 |
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| wznoinsk | anteaya: I really appreciate the time and the work you have to go thru while dealing with newbies, like me for example, I'm a bit worried that given the expansion of openstack community any leaks/soft rules in documentation may have a knock-on effect and slow things a bit | 15:28 |
| patrickeast | from asking about getting voting permissions in cinder meetings it seems like most folks there at least know about the same as us | 15:28 |
| patrickeast | even cores don’t know the rules infra has | 15:28 |
| patrickeast | vs nova | 15:28 |
| patrickeast | vs neutron | 15:28 |
| patrickeast | etc | 15:28 |
| wznoinsk | anteaya: you've touched a very good point, some guidelines (aka devs wishlist) regarding shape and form of artifacts would be good to have (although not sure whether that's possible to achieve) | 15:29 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: me too | 15:29 |
| anteaya | patrickeast: yes | 15:29 |
| anteaya | which is a big part of the problem | 15:29 |
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| anteaya | since this space expanded far faster than we have been able to keep up | 15:29 |
| anteaya | and I burnt out in novemeber | 15:29 |
| patrickeast | so for setting up and debugging a ci, knowing it is working correctly, it makes sense that having some experience with what it is supposed to look like helps, i don’t think that being a developer would have fixed the primary debate this moring of “should we ask for permission, and how are we supposed to know that we should” | 15:30 |
| anteaya | so now I am doing the best I can do | 15:30 |
| anteaya | and there are gaps, and I know about them | 15:30 |
| patrickeast | dont get me wrong, im not pointing fingers or anything | 15:30 |
| anteaya | patrickeast: of course | 15:30 |
| patrickeast | just saying that being an openstack dev and ci maintainer do have some non intersecting parts | 15:30 |
| anteaya | yes | 15:31 |
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| anteaya | but knowing what things are like from devs would at least have given the understanding of two things | 15:31 |
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| anteaya | why is is important to communicate with projects (that is the point of ask permission to comment) | 15:31 |
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| anteaya | and two that projects are highly different in how they self organize | 15:32 |
| anteaya | so that commenting on one project doesn't mean you have permission to comment on another | 15:32 |
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| anteaya | make sense? | 15:32 |
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| patrickeast | yea i can agree with the communication parts | 15:33 |
| patrickeast | the commenting i’m still not sure thats a given | 15:33 |
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| anteaya | it isnt' a given | 15:33 |
| anteaya | not saying it is | 15:33 |
| anteaya | I'm saying it isnt' a requirement | 15:33 |
| anteaya | now if someone wants to offer a patch to that document | 15:34 |
| anteaya | with a heading ettiquette or something | 15:34 |
| anteaya | then that might be a good point to list | 15:34 |
| patrickeast | yea | 15:34 |
| anteaya | the only project taht commenting without permisison _will_ get you disabled without a doubt is infra | 15:35 |
| asselin_ | +1 | 15:35 |
| anteaya | the other projects are project discrimination | 15:35 |
| patrickeast | maybe we should list project specific rules then? would that be helpful? | 15:35 |
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| anteaya | if thingee comes to me and says I want to diable systemx for not asking permisison to comment, I will disable because that is ptl's choice | 15:35 |
| patrickeast | or suggestions* | 15:35 |
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| asselin_ | if we do project specific rules, they should be on a wiki. | 15:36 |
| anteaya | project specific things are in the projects wikipages | 15:36 |
| anteaya | what asselin_ said | 15:36 |
| asselin_ | anteaya, +1 | 15:36 |
| anteaya | this is where communication is the requirement | 15:36 |
| wznoinsk | or instead of rules create gerrit groups having CIs depending on permission for commenting/voting/gateign (which I guess you already have) | 15:36 |
| anteaya | if you don't understand something, come and talk to us | 15:36 |
| wznoinsk | and apply for membership | 15:36 |
| patrickeast | ok cool, so then maybe just a comment that says “hey there might be project specific requirements that differ for each one, go check the wiki *before* commenting on patches” would probably fix the issue | 15:36 |
| anteaya | well communicaiotn is more important | 15:37 |
| anteaya | for instance | 15:37 |
| anteaya | you folks show up to meetings | 15:37 |
| asselin_ | patrickeast, +1 | 15:37 |
| anteaya | I know how to get a hold of you | 15:37 |
| anteaya | if anyone came to me with a complaint and I know it was your system I would ask you on irc | 15:37 |
| anteaya | and give you a chance to reply (If I could) | 15:37 |
| anteaya | but I tried to find someone from mellanox on irc | 15:37 |
| anteaya | you can read that in the logs of the infra channel for that date and time | 15:38 |
| anteaya | noone was there | 15:38 |
| anteaya | so to the mailing list | 15:38 |
| anteaya | disabling a system has become our only mechinsism of getting people to talk to us | 15:38 |
| anteaya | since we can't find them otherwise | 15:38 |
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| anteaya | we never had to do it in the aerly days | 15:38 |
| anteaya | folks were just available | 15:38 |
| anteaya | now we have operators that we don't know who they are | 15:39 |
| anteaya | they never talk to us | 15:39 |
| anteaya | communication trumps all | 15:39 |
| anteaya | so rather than getting hung up on rules and making more | 15:39 |
| anteaya | they rarely solve the issue anyway | 15:39 |
| anteaya | ask | 15:39 |
| anteaya | and encourage others to do the same | 15:40 |
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| anteaya | but if you want to offer a patch please do | 15:40 |
| anteaya | at the very least you get to experience the dev workflow by doing so | 15:41 |
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| patrickeast | sounds good | 15:41 |
| anteaya | thanks | 15:42 |
| anteaya | talking to you is by far my preference | 15:42 |
| wznoinsk | regarding the prefered way devs would prefer the artifacts to be shown in, would the new in tree 3rd party ci be done this way? asselin_ anteaya ? | 15:42 |
| anteaya | since once I can find you, I know you are trying to do what you understand, sometimes it is just a matter of expanding the perspective | 15:42 |
| asselin_ | wznoinsk, new in tree will use the same format as infra's jenkins | 15:43 |
| anteaya | any plugin testing run by the infra team would have logging set up consistent with current logging | 15:43 |
| anteaya | we wouldn't change logging format | 15:43 |
| asselin_ | (and if there's a change, it will be applied consistently to 'everything') | 15:44 |
| anteaya | and yes, having a consistent logging experience for devs decreases the amount of energy devs need to expend to grok your logs | 15:44 |
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| wznoinsk | again I guess that's different from project to project but if I'd follow way/tools to present artifacts that in tree solutions uses would I make devs life easier? | 15:44 |
| anteaya | for instance, http://64.119.130.115/156126/4/ | 15:44 |
| anteaya | even having a different font tells me diving in will be work | 15:44 |
| asselin_ | wznoinsk, yes | 15:44 |
| anteaya | so I put it off until after the meeting | 15:44 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: and you are asking good questions | 15:45 |
| anteaya | thank you | 15:45 |
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| anteaya | so spending time talking to other operators has value as well | 15:47 |
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| anteaya | did folks have anything else they would like to say on this topic? | 15:47 |
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| patrickeast | thats all ive got for it | 15:48 |
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| anteaya | would anyone like to discuss anything else? | 15:48 |
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| patrickeast | i have something you guys might be interested in | 15:48 |
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| patrickeast | i was bored over the weekend and made a thing https://github.com/patrick-east/scoreboard | 15:48 |
| patrickeast | so for my ci right now i can only see when jenkins fails | 15:49 |
| patrickeast | and not if zuul decides to post not_registered or error | 15:49 |
| patrickeast | so with that it keeps watch for gerrit events and can build a dash thing like http://ec2-54-67-102-119.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com:5000/?project=openstack%2Fcinder&user=&timeframe= | 15:49 |
| anteaya | patrickeast: nicely done | 15:49 |
| patrickeast | it has some serious perf problems right now | 15:50 |
| patrickeast | but after a few more hours of tinkering it might be somewhat usable | 15:50 |
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| patrickeast | i dont recommend pointing it at all data right now | 15:50 |
| patrickeast | your browser tab might crash | 15:50 |
| patrickeast | lol | 15:50 |
| patrickeast | just per project or user | 15:50 |
| anteaya | nice | 15:50 |
| anteaya | so having this would be useful to a project | 15:51 |
| wznoinsk | looks good patrickeast | 15:51 |
| asselin_ | patrickeast, very nice | 15:51 |
| patrickeast | and thats a top notch free tier ec2 instance so be gentle | 15:51 |
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| anteaya | and then hopefully someone on the project would take some time and look at the results | 15:51 |
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| anteaya | for instance the accounts taht are failing everything | 15:51 |
| patrickeast | at the very least it very clearly shows who the bad apples are | 15:51 |
| patrickeast | yea | 15:51 |
| anteaya | right | 15:52 |
| anteaya | which would _really_ help in the quality conversation | 15:52 |
| anteaya | so first step would be trying to comminicate to them | 15:52 |
| anteaya | if no response in a reasonable amount of time | 15:52 |
| anteaya | request their systems be offlined | 15:52 |
| anteaya | if they don't come back to learn how to improve their systems | 15:52 |
| anteaya | you have just done us all a favour | 15:53 |
| anteaya | so internal to the project first | 15:53 |
| anteaya | and if you have a list of systems you want disabled, then come and talk to me | 15:53 |
| rhe00 | don't you have to offline the system right away? otherwise it would hold up check ins? | 15:53 |
| anteaya | it cleans up teh space for the folks doing good work | 15:53 |
| anteaya | rhe00: can you rephrase please? | 15:54 |
| wznoinsk | having a bit of automation to notify the operators would be nice on top of it maybe? ;-) | 15:54 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: what do you picture? | 15:54 |
| rhe00 | let's say vendor X's CI is failing and voting -1 on every patch | 15:54 |
| patrickeast | wznoinsk: yea thats something more like what sweston was working on with that other dashboard | 15:54 |
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| patrickeast | this one is only for displaying data | 15:54 |
| anteaya | if an op is not paying attention if their system is failing every tested patch, that is a concern for me | 15:54 |
| rhe00 | it would prevent patches to merge | 15:54 |
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| wznoinsk | if failures of a CI are >98% in certain amount of time (a day, a week) send a notification there's something bad going on | 15:55 |
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| anteaya | rhe00: yes, so in that case someone, anyone could report that and the system is disabled | 15:55 |
| patrickeast | imo a ci operator should be watching that | 15:55 |
| anteaya | patrickeast: + | 15:55 |
| rhe00 | but that would have to happen immediately or it would hold up numerous patches in the queue. | 15:55 |
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| wznoinsk | anteaya: that's very thru, I'm trying to cover the edge cases when someone couldn't check for some reasons (but yet it's normally taking care of the ci properly) | 15:55 |
| anteaya | rhe00: right so if you ever see that, report that in the infra channel and we would disable that account right away | 15:56 |
| asselin_ | rhe00, there are 2 levels of ci. One is 'voting' the other is 'non-voting/just commenting' | 15:56 |
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| anteaya | wznoinsk: I'm not interested in edge cases | 15:56 |
| anteaya | if folks can't be bothered to check their own results they risk getting disabled | 15:56 |
| asselin_ | rhe00, only the 'voting' ones would cause an immediate disruption | 15:56 |
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| anteaya | wznoinsk: I'm not here for third party ci folks | 15:57 |
| anteaya | I'm here to protect the devs | 15:57 |
| rhe00 | asselin: I assume all CIs has to be voting or it makes less sense to have CIs, if there is a failure comment but the patch is merged anyway then what good did the CI do? once the patch is merged then the developer submitting the patch might go on to other work | 15:57 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: if third party operators want to figure out how to play nice, I'll help | 15:58 |
| anteaya | wznoinsk: that is as far as I can go | 15:58 |
| asselin_ | rhe00, currently in cinder, no cis are allowed to vote | 15:58 |
| rhe00 | I know, but by march 19th all of them will | 15:58 |
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| asselin_ | rhe00, and you're correct, last week we had a patch land that failed non-voting ci, which caused all future patches to fail. | 15:58 |
| patrickeast | rhe00: even if the ci votes -1 the patches can (afaik) be pushed through | 15:58 |
| anteaya | rhe00: look at the dev mailing list, walter boring had a good post, to which jgriffith had a good reply | 15:58 |
| patrickeast | rhe00: cinder probably wont have voting ci’s until later this year, iirc they wanted to wait until they were more stable | 15:59 |
| rhe00 | anteaya: you mean the one about lefthand ci failing | 15:59 |
| asselin_ | rhe00, yes | 15:59 |
| anteaya | rhe00: failing ci's only deter human reviewers | 15:59 |
| rhe00 | a patch and the patch got merged | 15:59 |
| anteaya | rhe00: yes | 15:59 |
| anteaya | third party ci's won't ever prevent merging | 15:59 |
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| rhe00 | hmm | 15:59 |
| anteaya | which is why operators need to pay attention to their own systems | 15:59 |
| rhe00 | ok | 15:59 |
| anteaya | and we are at time | 15:59 |
| anteaya | thanks everyone | 16:00 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 16:00 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| wznoinsk | thanks folks | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 2 16:00:12 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-02-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-02-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-02-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| rakhmerov | #startmeeting Mistral | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 2 16:00:57 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rakhmerov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'mistral' | 16:01 |
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| rakhmerov | hi | 16:01 |
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| NikolayM | hi ! | 16:02 |
| rakhmerov | let's wait for a couple of mins | 16:02 |
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| dzimine | Hi all, bit late, apps. | 16:05 |
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| rakhmerov | hi | 16:06 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, let's skip action items review | 16:06 |
| rakhmerov | because we haven't had meetings for a while | 16:06 |
| rakhmerov | #topic Current status (by team members) | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Current status (by team members) (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:06 | |
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| rakhmerov | my status: keep working on engine refactoring, a few patches are waiting to be reviewed and we need to wait for Dmitri when he says "ok" to merge them in | 16:07 |
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| rakhmerov | also worked with Nikolay on finding a solution for the bug with 'join' | 16:08 |
| NikolayM | status: worked on new YAQL related changes, added YAQL in policies and tried to fix 'join' bug. Also almost fixed bug with incorrectly finishing workflow when we have delayed task | 16:09 |
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| rakhmerov | yep, pls see a minor comment from me in 30 sec | 16:11 |
| dzimine | my status: along with w4dcode and lakshmi, worked on deploying mistral on munti-node environment and doing stress tests. | 16:11 |
| rakhmerov | :) | 16:11 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:12 |
| dzimine | NikolayM, rakhmerov thank you very much for quick turnaround on those irritating bugs we found. | 16:12 |
| rakhmerov | no problem | 16:12 |
| rakhmerov | we need to do it even faster | 16:12 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, I wanted to bring up a couple of things up to discussion | 16:13 |
| dzimine | as for loadtests: we deployed Mistral on ngnix and apache and run it at the load of 100 complex parallel workflows. | 16:13 |
| rakhmerov | yes | 16:13 |
| NikolayM | cool | 16:13 |
| dzimine | At ~500 parallel workflows, it begins to break down both on a single vm and on distr env. | 16:13 |
| rakhmerov | btw, dzimine, we started seeing that issue with oslo.messaging again after Winson's patch | 16:14 |
| dzimine | More details on breaking points to come. | 16:14 |
| rakhmerov | ok, good | 16:14 |
| dzimine | hm... often or intermittent? in tests? | 16:14 |
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| rakhmerov | intermittent | 16:15 |
| rakhmerov | yes, in test | 16:16 |
| rakhmerov | so looks like placing monkey patching into tests/__init__.py doesn't help | 16:16 |
| dzimine | ok let's find a place for it so that it doesn't mess apache deployment. a bug? | 16:17 |
| dzimine | to track? | 16:17 |
| rakhmerov | it's not a critical urgent issue though but anyway we need to get more details from Winson about what was wrong before | 16:17 |
| rakhmerov | I guess we don't have a bug yet | 16:17 |
| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov, create a bug for oslo.messaging & monkey patching issue | 16:17 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | let's move on | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | #topic A bug with 'join' | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "A bug with 'join' (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:18 | |
| rakhmerov | so now we agreed to merge in a temporarily solution | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | I already +2ed it | 16:19 |
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| rakhmerov | so, dzimine, you can take a look and approve it if you and Winson find it ok | 16:19 |
| rakhmerov | Nikolay also added a test that's skipped for now | 16:19 |
| dzimine | it's already in. | 16:19 |
| rakhmerov | ooh, ok | 16:19 |
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| rakhmerov | so, my question is: do we need to think about it more or we agreed on the solution suggested today? | 16:20 |
| rakhmerov | with versioning | 16:20 |
| rakhmerov | if yes, then I think we could knock it down this week | 16:20 |
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| rakhmerov | dzimine, maybe we you could just discuss it with Winson | 16:21 |
| rakhmerov | that's what comes to my mind | 16:21 |
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| rakhmerov | because he may have some other ideas | 16:21 |
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| dzimine | rakhmerov: can you just repost your comment to mailing list so it's easier do dig out... | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | ok, I will | 16:22 |
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| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov: repost our discussion about how to fix 'join' bug into ML | 16:22 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:23 |
| rakhmerov | #topic Changing team meeting time | 16:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Changing team meeting time (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:23 | |
| dzimine | thanks! it was convincing to me last night but I was a bit brain-tired. | 16:23 |
| rakhmerov | yes! | 16:23 |
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| rakhmerov | that's why I think it makes sense to think about it a little bit longer | 16:23 |
| rakhmerov | :) | 16:24 |
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| rakhmerov | not because I don't trust you but because it seems like too important decision to make it in a rush | 16:24 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:24 |
| rakhmerov | another thing that I wanted to bring up is changing our team meeting time | 16:25 |
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| rakhmerov | from now on it'll be difficult for me to attend meetings on Mondays at 16 UTC | 16:25 |
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| rakhmerov | so I just want you guys maybe to propose time frames convenient for you | 16:26 |
| dzimine | 1 hour later will be fantastic. | 16:26 |
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| rakhmerov | for me as well | 16:26 |
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| dzimine | ah, but it WILL become 1 hour later with daylight saving time. | 16:27 |
| rakhmerov | but as far as I understand for Nikolay it's not so good, is it? | 16:27 |
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| dzimine | so for me 1 hour earlier will work, too (although not so convinient :)) | 16:27 |
| dzimine | but I am ok. | 16:27 |
| NikolayM | yes, for me a hour later is not very good | 16:27 |
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| rakhmerov | regardless of day of week, right? | 16:28 |
| akuznetsova | let's move meeting for other day | 16:28 |
| NikolayM | Tuesday? | 16:28 |
| rakhmerov | yes, the best day for me is Tuesday | 16:28 |
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| rakhmerov | yes | 16:28 |
| rakhmerov | same time would be good for me but the problem is we'll have to find another channel | 16:29 |
| rakhmerov | because looks like this channel is occupied on Tuesdays | 16:29 |
| rakhmerov | or, the other alternative is just to have shorter meetings on Mondays | 16:29 |
| rakhmerov | say, from 16.20 till 17.00 UTC | 16:30 |
| rakhmerov | 40 mins | 16:30 |
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| rakhmerov | if we don't find more convenient time | 16:30 |
| rakhmerov | ok, let me search for available slots and suggest some options | 16:30 |
| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov: suggest some time slots for a new time of team meetings | 16:31 |
| rakhmerov | #topic Open Discussion | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:31 | |
| rakhmerov | any more topics/questions? | 16:31 |
| akuznetsova | just fyi, for me and Nikolay time after16 UTC is not good | 16:31 |
| rakhmerov | yes, I got it | 16:32 |
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| akuznetsova | thanks | 16:32 |
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| rakhmerov | it's a challenge because we are all in different time zones | 16:32 |
| rakhmerov | :) | 16:32 |
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| rakhmerov | ok | 16:32 |
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| rakhmerov | so, I don't have any more topics for today | 16:33 |
| rakhmerov | I'm too deep in coding ) | 16:33 |
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| rakhmerov | from your side? | 16:34 |
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| NikolayM | none from my | 16:35 |
| rakhmerov | dzimine? | 16:35 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, let's finish then | 16:36 |
| rakhmerov | thanks for coming | 16:37 |
| rakhmerov | bye | 16:37 |
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| rakhmerov | #endmeeting | 16:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:37 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 2 16:37:36 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:37 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2015/mistral.2015-03-02-16.00.html | 16:37 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2015/mistral.2015-03-02-16.00.txt | 16:37 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2015/mistral.2015-03-02-16.00.log.html | 16:37 |
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| rluethi | #startmeeting training-guides | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 2 17:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rluethi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'training_guides' | 17:00 |
| rluethi | Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, as the case may be. | 17:00 |
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| sayali | Hello, good evening | 17:00 |
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| rluethi | hi | 17:01 |
| matjazp | hey hey | 17:01 |
| dguitarbite | hello | 17:01 |
| matjazp | we're without sean, right? | 17:01 |
| rluethi | correct. | 17:01 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp: yes, do I smell something? | 17:01 |
| rluethi | well, sean left us with an agenda. | 17:02 |
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| * matjazp has showered, honestly ;) | 17:02 | |
| rluethi | #topic state of juno slides | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "state of juno slides (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:02 | |
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| rluethi | So I gather matjazp is going to merge the slides as-is, to be cleaned up soonish!? | 17:03 |
| matjazp | rluethi: I was going to merge fist 2 patches | 17:03 |
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| matjazp | rluethi: right. they are not slides as is, but patches should be smaller | 17:03 |
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| rluethi | I am somewhat concerned that merged large files to be cleaned up later means delaying clean-up indefinitely. | 17:04 |
| dguitarbite | I agree | 17:04 |
| rluethi | But since I don't work on slides, I value highly the opinions of those who do. | 17:04 |
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| matjazp | rluethi: I'm more worried that if we want to push "perfect" solution, it is still WAY off | 17:05 |
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| rluethi | So, matjazp, dguitarbite, can we merge one or two and have these cleaned up before we merge more. | 17:05 |
| matjazp | and I want to enable community to work on PARTS of slides with smaller patches | 17:05 |
| dguitarbite | Is there some kind of emergancy? | 17:05 |
| rluethi | matjazp: yeah, that's certainly a valid concern, too. | 17:05 |
| rluethi | dguitarbite: if we have no content other than the scripts and upstream U, it will become an emergency eventually. | 17:06 |
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| dguitarbite | rluethi: I agree with you | 17:06 |
| rluethi | so I guess the question is: what is the best path to get the necessary clean-up done ASAP? | 17:07 |
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| dguitarbite | but it can also be If it cannot be cleaned up as of now, it may not be cleaned up even when its merged. | 17:07 |
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| rluethi | so who can do the clean-up, realistically speaking? | 17:07 |
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| matjazp | well... now the content is "locked up" in a review and maybe some who would like to help "stays out" of such a large patch | 17:08 |
| rluethi | I don't see myself working on anything other than the scripts, at least for the the time being. | 17:08 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: sounds plausible. | 17:08 |
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| dguitarbite | I am busy with hosting events in India on top of labs scripts, python port, openstack koans | 17:08 |
| dguitarbite | but I agree with matjazp, lets merge them there are no other concerns | 17:09 |
| matjazp | noone likes to fiddle with other ppls patches | 17:09 |
| rluethi | so, it would have to be sean or matjazp, is that it? | 17:09 |
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| matjazp | I can help, but I would rather see it as a smaller patches anyway | 17:09 |
| sayali | I have too many un finished patches of my own atm :/ | 17:09 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: my point is that if you can help with small patches, then it might be a good idea to merge. | 17:10 |
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| rluethi | if it's only sean, _he_ should have no problem fiddling with his own patches. | 17:10 |
| matjazp | rluethi: I'm still hoping that community will help if they see it | 17:11 |
| rluethi | matjazp: I am afraid they will take what they see as an example of how to do it. | 17:11 |
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| sayali | I agree with rluethi | 17:12 |
| rluethi | matjazp: I will make no attempt at blocking your merging the patches, I am just stating my concerns. | 17:12 |
| matjazp | I believe it is better to have something in the repo that someone can adapt and make better than to have blank slate | 17:12 |
| rluethi | matjazp: you have a point. but how many people dare to take the axe to existing content and trim it down? | 17:13 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: a few brief slides that can be extended would seem to be a better starting point. | 17:13 |
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| matjazp | rluethi: that means to axe a mayority of seans patch | 17:14 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: that's my point. you did say that they are still way too long for slides. | 17:15 |
| rluethi | matjazp: if we can't cut them down, do you think the community will? | 17:15 |
| rluethi | matjazp: I could see the community extending them, but reworking them in a different, more terse style? | 17:16 |
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| matjazp | community == we (at first :) | 17:16 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: can we at least have a leading or trailing slide that says "please rework these slides to look more like upstream training (link here)" ? | 17:16 |
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| matjazp | rluethi: ok, I will try with an example and we'll see how it goes, OK? | 17:17 |
| rluethi | matjazp: or is there a simple way to separate slide text from notes? | 17:17 |
| rluethi | matjazp: that would be awesome. | 17:17 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: (I meant your suggestion) | 17:18 |
| matjazp | sure | 17:18 |
| rluethi | matjazp: if we can separate text from slides, I might be tempted to have a go myself. | 17:18 |
| rluethi | basically, throw everything in notes and a few key terms back into the slide. | 17:19 |
| matjazp | rluethi: yes, that was my intention | 17:19 |
| rluethi | perfect. | 17:19 |
| matjazp | rluethi: I just wanted to do that in a different patch... hence... merge as is | 17:19 |
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| matjazp | not all chapters, just one or two | 17:20 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: like i said, I have no intention of blocking you. if you do it this way, I will be a very happy camper. | 17:20 |
| rluethi | #action matjazp will merge some slide decks and rework them so they can serve as examples | 17:21 |
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| rluethi | #topic landing page | 17:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "landing page (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:21 | |
| rluethi | updates? | 17:21 |
| rluethi | anyone? | 17:22 |
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| matjazp | didn't sean work on it? | 17:23 |
| rluethi | from last weeks, meeting, I take it it was mostly sean's thing. | 17:23 |
| sayali | no idea | 17:23 |
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| rluethi | so there. | 17:23 |
| matjazp | you know.. a separate button or smth like that | 17:23 |
| rluethi | #action sarob will report next week | 17:23 |
| rluethi | #topic Merge sphinx or landslide, and if so, only for upstream or for all slides? | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Merge sphinx or landslide, and if so, only for upstream or for all slides? (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:23 | |
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| rluethi | did we make any progress since matjazp fixed the blocker last week? | 17:24 |
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| rluethi | I think we sort of agreed that we don't want to have two different programs for building slides in the long run, at least. | 17:25 |
| rluethi | but there may be a transition period or something!? | 17:25 |
| rluethi | sorry, memory is blurry. | 17:25 |
| rluethi | does anyone remember? | 17:25 |
| matjazp | rluethi: yes, sean wants to go with landslide, reed doesn't care about format | 17:25 |
| rluethi | oh, it was another sarob item. | 17:25 |
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| rluethi | hi vigneshvar | 17:26 |
| matjazp | format shouldn't matter | 17:26 |
| vigneshvar | hi | 17:26 |
| rluethi | matjazp: I understand there are slight differences, and everyone else seems to be using sphinx, so in the long run we should probably have sphinx!? | 17:26 |
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| reed | I think sarob and I overlapped and did both work to move in the other's direction | 17:27 |
| dguitarbite | vigneshvar: hi | 17:27 |
| rluethi | reed: what do you suggest we do? | 17:27 |
| reed | what's the easiest for you? I really don't care | 17:27 |
| matjazp | we have infra already set up for landslide? | 17:28 |
| rluethi | I don't have a stake in it, either, but like I said it _seems_ that we should do sphinx at some point because that's what OpenStack projects use. | 17:28 |
| matjazp | whats the status on that? we have landslide.sh that builds slides | 17:29 |
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| rluethi | maybe we should not have a vote on this while sarob is not here. | 17:30 |
| matjazp | I guess that's why sean wanted to use landslide for now and change to whatever later | 17:30 |
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| rluethi | reed: would that be okay with you? use landslide for everything for now and transition to sphinx in the next cycle? | 17:31 |
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| rluethi | reed? | 17:33 |
| rluethi | #info no resolution on landslide/sphinx, needs to be revisited next week | 17:34 |
| reed | ok with the vote | 17:34 |
| dguitarbite | reed: Another question is how much transition work has been done on upstream content? | 17:34 |
| rluethi | #undo | 17:34 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x85cc990> | 17:34 |
| dguitarbite | reed: in terms of porting the slides format | 17:34 |
| reed | dguitarbite, not a lot, and they suck anyway | 17:34 |
| dguitarbite | reed: so landslide sounds good to you? | 17:35 |
| reed | I'll have to sync up with the teachers next week to see what they like to use | 17:35 |
| rluethi | reed: I gathered from your comments last week that both formats suck equally. correct? | 17:35 |
| reed | dguitarbite, I can't stand neither, frankly :) | 17:35 |
| matjazp | reed, i7m just curious, do you see any other format/solution that could be better? | 17:35 |
| dguitarbite | reed: :) | 17:35 |
| dguitarbite | matjazp: I have been through this, its near to impossible | 17:36 |
| dguitarbite | to get anything closer to the current systems | 17:36 |
| reed | matjazp, the best option is google docs, quite frankly | 17:36 |
| reed | i'll have to talk to the teachers and see what they are confortable doing | 17:36 |
| reed | if they have time they may help fix the slides and go in a repo, whatever format will do | 17:37 |
| rluethi | reed: when would you be able to report back what the teachers think? | 17:37 |
| reed | otherwise I expect they'll just fix things 'one off' | 17:37 |
| reed | rluethi, give me two weeks | 17:37 |
| dguitarbite | we should have this conversation over the docs ML IMO | 17:37 |
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| rluethi | #action reed will ask teachers re: landslide/sphinx and report back on March 16 | 17:38 |
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| rluethi | cool, thanks, reed. | 17:38 |
| reed | np | 17:38 |
| rluethi | #topic any other business | 17:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:38 | |
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| sayali | AV videos need some attention now | 17:39 |
| rluethi | can you elaborate? | 17:40 |
| matjazp | rluethi: maybe wee need to clean up bugs list | 17:40 |
| sayali | We need the osbash on windows and linux videos soonish | 17:40 |
| matjazp | ppl are taking old bugs and wonder where to put them | 17:40 |
| sayali | dguitarbite: is your issue with windows solved yet? | 17:40 |
| rluethi | matjazp: didn't sean and dguitarbite clean up bugs? | 17:40 |
| dguitarbite | sayali: I did not look into it further | 17:40 |
| dguitarbite | sayali: My machine is old and fragile, I will try this at the end of this month if I get time | 17:41 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi: some bugs were ported back from openstack-manuals | 17:41 |
| sayali | Also, I will make a image for training-guides videos which can be used in all the vidoes | 17:41 |
| sayali | videos* | 17:41 |
| matjazp | rluethi: not enough.. see ML | 17:41 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi: matjazp: these bugs are out of our domain | 17:41 |
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| sayali | dguitarbite: ok, I will try it on my end too then. | 17:42 |
| dguitarbite | I have a strong belief that it was a rare situation, we need to take action if that repeats | 17:42 |
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| dguitarbite | sayali: thanks :) | 17:42 |
| sayali | is vigneshvar around? | 17:42 |
| rluethi | sayali: he was. | 17:42 |
| dguitarbite | he as poor internet connectivity at his place | 17:42 |
| sayali | ah ok. | 17:42 |
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| rluethi | matjazp: I have to admit I haven't looked much at the bug db, because every time I look it seems to be all ancient docs bugs. | 17:44 |
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| matjazp | rluethi: yes, and thats the problem. | 17:44 |
| rluethi | matjazp: can't we just mark all icehouse docs bugs "won't fix"? | 17:45 |
| matjazp | if someone want's to help, they should see new bugs for current content | 17:45 |
| rluethi | matjazp: yes. unless sayali wants to use them as low-hanging fruit bugs for training :-). | 17:45 |
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| sayali | rluethi: we decided to send dummy patches to training-guides instead for the workshops | 17:46 |
| matjazp | sayali: I use openstack-dev/sandbox | 17:47 |
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| sayali | also we can abandon bugs right? | 17:47 |
| rluethi | okay, so matjazp (and everyone else), close all Icehouse bugs "won't fix"? | 17:47 |
| dguitarbite | rluethi: audience skill set is not upto the mark for actual bug fixes for our time constraints | 17:47 |
| matjazp | sayali: everyone there is a core, so the can test beeing core too :) | 17:47 |
| sayali | matjazp: oh that's cool. I will check it out! | 17:48 |
| matjazp | sayali: just try not to merge or just clean up afterwards after them | 17:48 |
| sayali | matjazp: okay | 17:49 |
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| vigneshvar | once after this topic, i would like to update on the AV work | 17:50 |
| sayali | vigneshvar: sure, go ahead | 17:50 |
| rluethi | shoot. | 17:50 |
| vigneshvar | sorry for the delay i have not completed yet | 17:50 |
| vigneshvar | but i have found some useful tools used for video editting | 17:50 |
| vigneshvar | in linux | 17:51 |
| vigneshvar | with that we can make multiple videos as "scenes" | 17:51 |
| vigneshvar | and merge them to single video | 17:51 |
| sayali | vigneshvar: ok, you can put the link for those on the AV etherpad. | 17:51 |
| vigneshvar | sayali: sure | 17:51 |
| sayali | ok, so you can stop the video as you like? | 17:51 |
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| vigneshvar | the advantage of taking as "scenes" is, it is easy to update parts of video | 17:52 |
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| sayali | Also, I think we should have both the videos for osbash in this month | 17:52 |
| vigneshvar | i will be completing one soon, i have almost done with video | 17:53 |
| sayali | vigneshvar: right, that sounds good. Ill take a look. | 17:53 |
| vigneshvar | i need to add audio now | 17:53 |
| vigneshvar | with that tool i can add audio separate | 17:53 |
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| sayali | ok great. We need to add a training-guides logo kind of thing on each video | 17:54 |
| sayali | So that they all look uniform, as we had discussed earlier | 17:54 |
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| sayali | I will add that and send it to everyone | 17:54 |
| rluethi | somebody draw a stack train. | 17:54 |
| vigneshvar | sayali: sure | 17:54 |
| sayali | then you could use it in the video too | 17:54 |
| sayali | rluethi: for? | 17:55 |
| rluethi | "a logo kind of thing" | 17:55 |
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| vigneshvar | the tool is called openshot | 17:55 |
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| dguitarbite | rluethi: ahh, you got me excited there for a second ;) | 17:55 |
| sayali | rluethi: haha I was thinking more on the lines of using the OpenStack logo with training guides written under it | 17:55 |
| rluethi | sayali: how ordinary. | 17:56 |
| * sayali will try to make it more interesting :D | 17:56 | |
| * rluethi is looking forward to seeing new AV material | 17:57 | |
| rluethi | I think this might be a good time to call it a day. | 17:57 |
| sayali | yep | 17:58 |
| rluethi | gents, ladies, it's been a pleasure. | 17:58 |
| rluethi | #endmeeting | 17:58 |
| vigneshvar | sure | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 2 17:58:18 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2015/training_guides.2015-03-02-17.00.html | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2015/training_guides.2015-03-02-17.00.txt | 17:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2015/training_guides.2015-03-02-17.00.log.html | 17:58 |
| sayali | bye bye | 17:58 |
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| dguitarbite | bye | 17:58 |
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| mestery | Hello neutron meeting attendees, and welcome! | 20:58 |
| * mestery feels like a game show host. | 20:58 | |
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| roaet | o/ | 20:58 |
| yamamoto | hi | 20:58 |
| * sweston hands mestery a microphone and a top hat | 20:59 | |
| roaet | is mestery going to dance? | 20:59 |
| mestery | sweston: lol | 20:59 |
| mestery | roaet: I'll leave that to the contestants | 20:59 |
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| gongysh | hello | 20:59 |
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| salv-orlando | aloha | 20:59 |
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| gongysh | nimenhao | 21:00 |
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| HenryG | \o | 21:00 |
| salv-orlando | roaet: no dance. This is a cage fighting show. | 21:00 |
| Sukhdev | Hello | 21:00 |
| roaet | salv-orlando: +1 | 21:00 |
| yamahata | hello | 21:00 |
| mestery | I know we're down 3 cores today, and a fourth for the first 30 minutes. May be slim pickings for that cage fighting salv-orlando. | 21:00 |
| mestery | Lets get this party started | 21:01 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 2 21:01:11 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 21:01 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 21:01 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: you should see it as a chance to pick new blood | 21:01 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 21:01 |
| mestery | #topic Announcements | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:01 | |
| mestery | salv-orlando: lol :) | 21:01 |
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| mestery | We continue our march towards Kilo-3! | 21:01 |
| mestery | #info Feature Proposal Freeze: March 5 | 21:01 |
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| mestery | #info Feature, String, and Dependency Freeze: March 19 | 21:01 |
| mestery | #info RCs: April 9-23 | 21:01 |
| mestery | #info Kilo release: April 30 | 21:02 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 21:02 |
| mestery | I know I paste these each week, but does anyone have any questions on these dates? | 21:02 |
| mestery | I should highlight that approved specs with no code by this Thursday will be out of Kilo unless they can get a FFE | 21:02 |
| mestery | I know there are a fair number in this state having just looked at the LP page | 21:02 |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/kilo-3 | 21:03 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on then. | 21:03 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:03 | |
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| mestery | enikanorov enikanorov__: Here? | 21:04 |
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| * dougwig dons his cage suit. | 21:04 | |
| mestery | I have a bug to discuss anyways | 21:04 |
| mestery | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1426543 | 21:04 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1426543 in neutron "Spike in DBDeadlock errors in update_floatingip_statuses since 2/27" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Kevin Benton (kevinbenton) | 21:04 |
| enikanorov__ | hi | 21:04 |
| mestery | I know kevinbenton and armax have been working that, with plenty of reviews. | 21:04 |
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| mestery | enikanorov__: See ^^^ for what was a critical gate bug last week | 21:05 |
| enikanorov__ | yeah, seen that | 21:05 |
| mestery | Also, this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1426397 | 21:05 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1426397 in neutron "tempest.scenario.test_network_v6.TestGettingAddress.test_slaac_from_os intermittently fails with MismatchError" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Henry Gessau (gessau) | 21:05 |
| mestery | HenryG is working a fix on the tempest side for that one | 21:05 |
| kevinbenton | What was the question about it? | 21:05 |
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| mestery | kevinbenton: No question, just raising awareness :) | 21:05 |
| kevinbenton | Oh okay :) | 21:06 |
| enikanorov__ | mestery: thanks for doing it for me ;) | 21:06 |
| mestery | enikanorov__: lol ;) | 21:06 |
| mestery | enikanorov__: Did I miss anything else? | 21:06 |
| enikanorov__ | nope. other critical gate issue is already fixed | 21:06 |
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| enikanorov__ | (I mean the bug with func test) | 21:07 |
| mestery | enikanorov__: Cool! | 21:07 |
| mestery | Anyone else have a bug to discuss this week? | 21:07 |
| enikanorov__ | yes | 21:07 |
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| enikanorov__ | there is that bug with db reties and corresponding patch | 21:07 |
| enikanorov__ | let me find a link | 21:08 |
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| enikanorov__ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149261/ | 21:08 |
| enikanorov__ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1382064 | 21:08 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1382064 in neutron "Failure to allocate tunnel id when creating networks concurrently" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Eugene Nikanorov (enikanorov) | 21:08 |
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| enikanorov__ | so is there a consensus that we want to go with retries? | 21:08 |
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| enikanorov__ | i'm a bit tired of that neverlasting discussion | 21:08 |
| enikanorov__ | salv-orlando: ? | 21:08 |
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| salv-orlando | enikanorov__: data tell me we should do as afazekas says, in general | 21:09 |
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| kevinbenton | Maybe we should dedicate a summit session to it? | 21:09 |
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| salv-orlando | but since what I found out in data contrast with a general mandate against use of lock for updatre | 21:09 |
| salv-orlando | I would say that for fixing that bug we should just make sure we retry with a different vni id | 21:10 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: ++ | 21:10 |
| enikanorov__ | salv-orlando: ok, cool | 21:10 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 21:10 |
| femtox | sorry to interupt you guys | 21:10 |
| enikanorov__ | (i'll take everything going after 'but') | 21:10 |
| enikanorov__ | :-) | 21:10 |
| femtox | but would really welcome your advice on how to setup devstack with neutron networking as a VM on virtualbox or VM Workstation | 21:10 |
| enikanorov__ | so right now the plan is to use the decorator from oslo.db 1.5.0 | 21:11 |
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| mestery | femtox: CAn you jump over to #openstack-neutron? | 21:11 |
| enikanorov__ | femtox: #openstack-neutron | 21:11 |
| mestery | femtox: This is the weekly neutron team meeting | 21:11 |
| femtox | yes, will do thanks. sorry to break in mestery. | 21:12 |
| mestery | femtox: No worries | 21:12 |
| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: what do you mean it contrasts with the mandate against "lock for update" | 21:12 |
| dougwig | i think he means 'select for update' and galleria. | 21:12 |
| dougwig | galera. | 21:12 |
| salv-orlando | kevinbenton: I mean that there is a general trend against replacing its usage with alternatives, such as queries which do update with a where | 21:12 |
| salv-orlando | dougwig: galleria might be a name for a vpn software | 21:13 |
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| mestery | salv-orlando: Or a mall in Minnesota | 21:13 |
| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: i thought we had to replace them because they were broken on galera clusters anyway? | 21:13 |
| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: also evil deadlocks | 21:13 |
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| dougwig | salv-orlando, mestery: yeah, that was auto-correct, being it's usual self. | 21:13 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I think there are malls called Galleria every where in the world. There's one in Hatfield near my place too. | 21:13 |
| mestery | lol | 21:14 |
| banix | and one in NY | 21:14 |
| enikanorov__ | 'lock for update' gives false promise of serialization in case of gallera. that's one of the reasons | 21:14 |
| enikanorov__ | (after deadlocks) | 21:14 |
| salv-orlando | kevinbenton: broken in the sense that they do not work as expected there | 21:14 |
| dougwig | normally i try to throw things into the weeds. this time was not my fault, i swear. :) | 21:14 |
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| salv-orlando | write-intent locks are always enforced on the local node | 21:14 |
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| salv-orlando | they're not propagate on write-sets. Simply because that would not make any sense at all. | 21:14 |
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| enikanorov__ | ok, thanks for your feedback | 21:15 |
| salv-orlando | so the way galera reacts to a situation where you acquired a lock but you shouldn;t | 21:15 |
| salv-orlando | is by triggering a deadlock error. | 21:15 |
| salv-orlando | Therefore the argument is whether one should retry the transaction on deadlock or design algorithms which avoid the deadlock | 21:15 |
| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: i see | 21:16 |
| rossella_s | another problem is that the select for update lock doesn't work with postgres in HA | 21:16 |
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| rossella_s | I am seeing problems in production because of that | 21:16 |
| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: shouldn't we try algorithms anyway since we have an abusive relationship with our currentl sql driver which we refuse to leave? | 21:16 |
| enikanorov__ | rossella_s: do you have such environment to test? | 21:16 |
| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: we can't avoid the awful 60 seconds to timeout on a held lock | 21:17 |
| enikanorov__ | kevinbenton: that's what we're trying to do | 21:17 |
| enikanorov__ | hence retries | 21:17 |
| salv-orlando | kevinbenton: that is another good point. But I am afraid that it is a point that here adds only white noise. May I suggest to have a discussion on the already open ML thread | 21:17 |
| markmcclain | kevinbenton: well the abusive relationship is our creation :) | 21:17 |
| rossella_s | enikanorov__ I don't have one available right now but I can create one. Anyway customers are reporting that kind of problem, I mean the lock simply is not locking anything and we get duplicate entry errors | 21:17 |
| salv-orlando | kevinbenton: btw, the write set replication deadlock does not have the 50 second timeout | 21:17 |
| salv-orlando | it's different | 21:17 |
| salv-orlando | rossella_s: what's the failure mode? | 21:18 |
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| kevinbenton | salv-orlando: i know, but it's also a side effect of "lock for update". i'll take discussion offline | 21:18 |
| enikanorov__ | rossella_s: i'm curious because we usually test against galera single writer/multireader | 21:18 |
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| rossella_s | salv-orlando if you have 2 neutron servers they both try to write on the same table even if there's the select for update lock. So one gets the duplicate entry error | 21:19 |
| salv-orlando | kevinbenton: you're right. The whole point of doing write intent locks is that we were too lazy and too afraid to impleent a minimal level of coordination in software | 21:19 |
| salv-orlando | rossella_s: so that would be HA in active/active mode on pg_sql? | 21:19 |
| rossella_s | salv-orlando drbd | 21:20 |
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| gongysh | sorry, what is the right way to replace 'select for update' in HA environment of both mysql and pg_sql? | 21:21 |
| salv-orlando | rossella_s: thanks. I think the last time I used drbd my age still started with a '2'. I need to document a bit | 21:21 |
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| mestery | lol | 21:21 |
| mestery | OK, shoudl we move this discussion to the ML now? | 21:21 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: I think we're diverging a bit | 21:22 |
| mestery | per salv-orlando's advice? | 21:22 |
| kevinbenton | gongysh: by not using it :) | 21:22 |
| gongysh | ok | 21:22 |
| kevinbenton | gongysh: generally "UPDATE WHERE" statements have been popular | 21:22 |
| enikanorov__ | gongysh: there is no alternative. there is no serialization available for distributed dbs with multiwriter mode | 21:22 |
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| mestery | OK, I think we've exhausted the bugs discussion, lets move on in the agenda now. | 21:22 |
| mestery | emagana isn't here so we'll skip our docs update for the week. | 21:23 |
| mestery | #topic Plugin Decomposition Update | 21:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Plugin Decomposition Update (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:23 | |
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| mestery | armax isn't here, but I wanted to give folks a chance to ask questions in this slots, etc. | 21:23 |
| mestery | Also, armax has a series of patches moving the documentation of the stauts of the effort into the neutron git repo | 21:24 |
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| mestery | I encourage folks to add to that (as Plumgrid and midokura have done) when decomposing | 21:24 |
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| dougwig | https://review.openstack.org/160109 | 21:24 |
| dougwig | ^^ doc for vendor decomp status | 21:24 |
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| mestery | dougwig: Nice! Thanks for the link | 21:25 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/160109 | 21:25 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on. | 21:25 |
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| mestery | #topic nova-network to neutron migration | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nova-network to neutron migration (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:25 | |
| mestery | anteaya markmcclain: Anything this week? | 21:25 |
| mestery | I'll take that as a likely no. | 21:26 |
| markmcclain | nothing new to share | 21:26 |
| mestery | Cool | 21:26 |
| mestery | #topic LBaaS in Kilo: Update from the other side | 21:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LBaaS in Kilo: Update from the other side (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:26 | |
| mestery | dougwig: You're on | 21:26 |
| dougwig | let's see if i can bust the rate limiter... | 21:26 |
| dougwig | so, we're shipping this lbaasv2 thing in kilo. | 21:26 |
| dougwig | it has a new object model and TLS termination/offload support. | 21:26 |
| dougwig | models, migrations, extension, plugin, basic ref driver, client/CLI, devstack (in-tree), and api docs have merged. | 21:26 |
| dougwig | tempest tests (in-tree), TLS support, scalable-ish agent driver, and vendor drivers are in gerrit. | 21:26 |
| dougwig | horizon support won't happen until Liberty, though we're also thinking of seeing if we can do it in-tree instead of in horizon. | 21:26 |
| dougwig | we are beginning to assemble thoughts on next steps here: | 21:26 |
| dougwig | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/lbaas-vancouver-planning | 21:26 |
| dougwig | we still need to bring the operators into that discussion as well. | 21:26 |
| dougwig | any questions/additions/comments? | 21:26 |
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| dougwig | that's all i've got. | 21:28 |
| * mestery digests LBaaS | 21:28 | |
| markmcclain | awesome | 21:28 |
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| mestery | Nice work dougwig and team | 21:28 |
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| mestery | #topic VPNaaS | 21:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "VPNaaS (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:29 | |
| mestery | pc_m: You're up! | 21:29 |
| pc_m | Just four items to update folks on... | 21:29 |
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| pc_m | Plan is to have VPN discussions as part of Neutron on-demand topics | 21:29 |
| pc_m | Strong Swan driver is out for review. Need reviewers: https://review.openstack.org/144391 | 21:30 |
| pc_m | Working on functional job for StrongSwan as well. | 21:30 |
| mestery | pc_m: Is the plan to make StrongSwan the default in Kilo? | 21:30 |
| pc_m | Started refactoring for VPN to remove dependency on L3 agent. First commit is out for review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/160179/ | 21:30 |
| dougwig | pc_m: so the vpnaas meeting is moving into the on-demand agenda as needed? | 21:31 |
| pc_m | mestery: No, but we should in L and then start to deprecate OpenSwan. | 21:31 |
| pc_m | OpenSwan is no longer packaged with Ubuntu (14.10+) | 21:31 |
| pc_m | dougwig: yes | 21:31 |
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| pc_m | dougwig: Not much interest/participation in meetings for the past month or so. | 21:32 |
| dougwig | we've been discussing something similar for lbaas after v2 ships. | 21:32 |
| pc_m | Will work with Carl on the refactoring... I have a few questions. | 21:32 |
| mestery | dougwig: ++ | 21:32 |
| pc_m | That's all I have, unless there are more Qs | 21:33 |
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| mestery | Thanks pc_m. | 21:33 |
| pc_m | Sure. Please help on reviews... | 21:33 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 21:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 21:33 | |
| blogan | at least trim down lbaas meetings (octavia, neutron-lbaas) | 21:33 |
| mestery | blogan: You don't like all those meetings? :) | 21:34 |
| blogan | thats a trick question, as i am currently in a meeting | 21:34 |
| mestery | OK, thanks for attending this week folks! | 21:35 |
| dougwig | bye | 21:35 |
| Sukhdev | thanks and bye | 21:35 |
| mestery | Remember FPF is this Thursday. | 21:35 |
| blogan | bye | 21:35 |
| mestery | So get those patches out there! | 21:35 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 21:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:35 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 2 21:35:41 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:35 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-03-02-21.01.html | 21:35 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-03-02-21.01.txt | 21:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-03-02-21.01.log.html | 21:35 |
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| salv-orlando | adieuuuu | 21:35 |
| marun | caio | 21:35 |
| yamamoto | bye | 21:36 |
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| prometheanfire | need more reviews :( | 21:40 |
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