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| ctracey | sbalukoff: hey there | 13:01 |
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| sbalukoff | Morning, folks! | 14:00 |
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| rm_work | Morning. | 14:00 |
| vivek-ebay | Morning | 14:00 |
| enikanorov | hi | 14:00 |
| mestery | o/ | 14:00 |
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| ptoohill | hello | 14:01 |
| rm_work | Forgive me if I say things that don't make a lot of sense, I'm barely awake right now <_< | 14:01 |
| vjay | Hi | 14:01 |
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| sbalukoff | Same here. | 14:01 |
| german_ | morning | 14:01 |
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| sballe_ | morning | 14:01 |
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| * mestery passes rm_work an espresso. :) | 14:02 | |
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| aburaschi | hi! | 14:02 |
| s3wong | hello | 14:02 |
| aburaschi | o/ | 14:02 |
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| rm_work | mestery: if only T_T would kill for one right now | 14:02 |
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| rm_work | appreciate the sentiment :) | 14:02 |
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| enikanorov | let's start then! | 14:03 |
| enikanorov | #startmeeting neutron lbaas | 14:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 8 14:03:18 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is enikanorov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas' | 14:03 |
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| ctracey | morning | 14:03 |
| samuelbercovici | hi | 14:03 |
| enikanorov | I'd like to propose 2 topics for todays meeting | 14:04 |
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| enikanorov | 1. agenda for design tracks | 14:04 |
| enikanorov | 2. comparison of API proposals | 14:04 |
| enikanorov | in that order | 14:04 |
| TrevorV | morning! | 14:04 |
| mestery | +1 to that enikanorov | 14:04 |
| rm_work | sounds good to me | 14:04 |
| aburaschi | +1 | 14:04 |
| samuelbercovici | +1 | 14:04 |
| rm_work | err, +1 | 14:04 |
| sbalukoff | Ok! | 14:04 |
| enikanorov | i suggest that (2) is going to take more than 1 meeting, so lets start with what is more important right now | 14:04 |
| german_ | +1 | 14:04 |
| ctracey | +1 | 14:05 |
| edhall | +1 | 14:05 |
| rm_work | yes, (2) will probably extend into the summit | 14:05 |
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| enikanorov | so, as I said in email, design tracks are not a place for in-depth discussion, so we need to come up with a list of items that require core team attention | 14:05 |
| enikanorov | right now a have two questions in mind | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov | s/a/I | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov | the first one is a policy of integration with barbican | 14:06 |
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| mestery | enikanorov: That one is an important session for not only LBaaS, but also VPNaaS. | 14:07 |
| samuelbercovici | mestery:+1 | 14:07 |
| enikanorov | mestery: are you suggesting to move it to different design track? | 14:07 |
| enikanorov | *design session | 14:07 |
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| mestery | enikanorov: Nope, I'm just saying the VPN folks will be very interested to partake in that discussion | 14:07 |
| rm_work | I have friends on the barbican team, can make sure there is some representation from them at our track so they can answer questions we might have | 14:08 |
| enikanorov | ah, sure | 14:08 |
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| german_ | I finally found the barbican people inside HP... | 14:08 |
| enikanorov | that's good to know | 14:08 |
| sbalukoff | Heh! | 14:08 |
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| rm_work | german_: I found the barbican people inside RS too, they sit within nerf dart range of me :P | 14:08 |
| enikanorov | so, whole SSL support then splits into 2 questions IMO: | 14:08 |
| mestery | rm_work: That woudl be great! | 14:09 |
| rm_work | german_: I guess HP might be bigger :) | 14:09 |
| enikanorov | 1) will it be ok to write DB driver for cert storage (with proper documentation) | 14:09 |
| german_ | rm_work plane ride away :-) | 14:09 |
| enikanorov | 2) will it be ok to rely on barbican (considering it's not an integrated project yet) | 14:09 |
| mestery | IMHO, we as a larger team may need to commit resources to barbican to help with #2. | 14:09 |
| samuelbercovici | also where is the canonical API resides to store and consume SSL certificates? | 14:10 |
| sballe_ | enikanorov, Our security lead seems to think that for production Barbican is not ready yet | 14:10 |
| sbalukoff | Well, I know how I come down on those questions. :) | 14:10 |
| mestery | It's something we should figure out next week, as making it core will be important. | 14:10 |
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| enikanorov | mestery: i see | 14:10 |
| enikanorov | btw, i forgot to mention | 14:10 |
| enikanorov | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-neutron-lbaas | 14:10 |
| sballe_ | but longer term Barbican is the rigth approach | 14:10 |
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| german_ | yeah, we need to compare road maps | 14:11 |
| enikanorov | i suggest to write your proposed discussion items there | 14:11 |
| rm_work | sballe_: we brought up your exact concern with the barbican guys here and they seem to think there's work to be done but nothing that would be a showstopper for our timeline | 14:11 |
| sballe_ | rm_work, good to know. thanks | 14:11 |
| mestery | rm_work: That's good to know! | 14:12 |
| german_ | +1 | 14:12 |
| enikanorov | ok, the next big question which i think worth discussing with a core team is 'networking function vs virtualized appliance' | 14:12 |
| sballe_ | so let's assume barbican will be ready when we need it to be | 14:12 |
| enikanorov | as it a core question for our 'loadbalancer resource' discussion | 14:12 |
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| TrevorV | I have already spoken to one of the guys on the Barbican team here at Rackspace; he said they'll have someone at our discussions during the summit | 14:13 |
| rm_work | Hopefully John Wood and Paul Kehrer can make it | 14:13 |
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| sbalukoff | enikanorov: Can you expand on that idea a bit? I'm not sure what you mean by "networking function vs. virtualized appliance" | 14:13 |
| rm_work | I think they're the tech lead and cryptography guy | 14:13 |
| sballe_ | enikanorov, I agree if I am understanding your point right. Networking fucntions is core the Neutron, virtualized appliance is LBaaS or other advanced service? | 14:13 |
| enikanorov | sbalukoff: i'd like to, but so far that was a quite blurry explanation of why we don't want to provide 'logical loadbalancer appliance' functionality | 14:14 |
| enikanorov | limiting it with particular objects like vips/pools/etc | 14:14 |
| sbalukoff | Whose explanation? | 14:14 |
| TrevorV | rm_work: John is who I spoke with | 14:14 |
| enikanorov | sbalukoff: Mark McClain's, for instance | 14:14 |
| rm_work | TrevorV: excellent :) | 14:14 |
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| sbalukoff | Right. I guess it's important to know, does mestery feel the same way? | 14:15 |
| enikanorov | sbalukoff: i think it's some project-wise design consideration that needs to be clearly explained | 14:15 |
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| sbalukoff | enikanorov: I agree! | 14:15 |
| enikanorov | so far i could not fully understand the reason behind it | 14:15 |
| german_ | is this something we can do on the mailing list - or is that summit? | 14:15 |
| sballe_ | enikanorov, I feel we have been down this road before and most people in the group feel that we need a loadbalancer thing and not a bucnh of pieces that a user can bundle together | 14:15 |
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| sbalukoff | I would *love* for someone there to quantify why they think the virtual appliance model violates concerns around "implementation details". :) | 14:16 |
| rm_work | german_: I am thinking the high-bandwidth of the summit might help a lot with this | 14:16 |
| mestery | This will be ML and Summit discussion I suspect, which is why enikanorov brought it up here. | 14:16 |
| rm_work | I can't seem to get my point across well in text, I think | 14:16 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: the reason was that if the reason to use load balancer is for scheduling then there is different scemantics to use | 14:16 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: please explain? | 14:16 |
| salv-orlando | a LoadBalancer instance, being represented as an object which can contain a collection of VIPs and other resources, probably did not seem a great construct from the user perspective. It surely did not made their life easier. Even if the counter argument is that It probably recalled how 'real' load balancers are structured. | 14:17 |
| samuelbercovici | looking at the use cases they needed loadbalncer as a way to specify affinity and and anti-affinity | 14:17 |
| salv-orlando | real has been quoted because it might refer to both phisical and virtual appliances | 14:17 |
| jorgem | salv-orlando: our customers (users) beg to differ | 14:17 |
| enikanorov | salv-orlando: thanks | 14:17 |
| samuelbercovici | this is better represented IMO in the way nove does it with insatnce groups | 14:17 |
| rm_work | salv-orlando: I am curious if maybe we have different definitions of who a "user" is | 14:17 |
| enikanorov | so to me i goes down to a question, if a single logical loadbalancer needs more then one L2 port | 14:18 |
| ctracey | jorgem: as do the thousands of elb users | 14:18 |
| rm_work | which could explain some of the confusion | 14:18 |
| blogan | salv-orlando: why do you think it does not seem a great construct from the user perspective? | 14:18 |
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| sbalukoff | salv-orlando: Our customers also beg to differ. :) | 14:18 |
| salv-orlando | I have been pointing out what came out from a discussion of a proposed API change in the Juno life cycle. | 14:18 |
| salv-orlando | Sorry Icehouse | 14:18 |
| blogan | salv-orlando: ah so is it not your opinion? | 14:19 |
| salv-orlando | or was it probably Havana? It does not matter anyway. | 14:19 |
| sbalukoff | Got it. Time to revisit that discussion. :) | 14:19 |
| enikanorov | salv-orlando: yeah, it's a long story | 14:19 |
| salv-orlando | In my opinion the problem is not a "load balancer" instance. | 14:19 |
| german_ | let's table that for the (2) agenda iteam? | 14:19 |
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| sbalukoff | german_: +1 | 14:20 |
| blogan | german_: agreed | 14:20 |
| rm_work | I almost want to table this until Monday <_< | 14:20 |
| mestery | Yes | 14:20 |
| salv-orlando | My opinion is that I don't think a good API is an API that pretty much is a RESTification of the backend API many appliances offer | 14:20 |
| german_ | +1 | 14:20 |
| edhall | salv-orlando, agreed | 14:20 |
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| mestery | +1 salv-orlando | 14:20 |
| rm_work | +1 | 14:20 |
| sballe_ | +1 for Monday | 14:20 |
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| mestery | I think this discussion is something to talk about next week. We should add this to the etherpad. | 14:21 |
| sbalukoff | salv-orlando: I'd love to hear more of your opinion on this. But it can wait until Monday, eh. :) | 14:21 |
| samuelbercovici | +1 salv-orlando | 14:21 |
| enikanorov | and what is for multiple L2 ports per logical loadbalancer? | 14:21 |
| ctracey | +1 sbalukoff | 14:21 |
| enikanorov | do we need more than one neutron port per LB? | 14:22 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: please explain | 14:22 |
| salv-orlando | enikanorov: I've not been following enough load balancing to understand what you mean here | 14:22 |
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| german_ | I think so | 14:22 |
| enikanorov | sorry, i meant do we need multiple VIPs per sinlge logical balancer | 14:22 |
| german_ | yes, we do | 14:22 |
| enikanorov | i mean that each VIP has its own neutron port and IP | 14:22 |
| german_ | a load balancer might be present in multiple subnets | 14:22 |
| sballe_ | I agree with german_ We do | 14:22 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: what is the use case that requires this? | 14:22 |
| sbalukoff | enikanorov: Given some of the use cases, we might. Though it's probably worth a more in-depth discussion of the implications of more than 1 neutron port per logical LB | 14:23 |
| enikanorov | german_: no, that's not the case | 14:23 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: i didn't see any, that's why i'm asking | 14:23 |
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| enikanorov | german_: 1 neutron port can be on multiple subnets also | 14:23 |
| sballe_ | enikanorov, can you clarify "that is not the use case"? | 14:23 |
| enikanorov | german_: we don't need multiple VIPs to handle that | 14:23 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: the ones I have seen in the tenant facing use cases were for scheduling purposes | 14:23 |
| vivek-ebay | IP:80 for HTTP, SAME_IP:443 for HTTPS. does what use-case fit here ? | 14:24 |
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| sbalukoff | enikanorov: Introducing the restriction that a logical load balancer must exist on only one neutron port might make sense-- I'd love to hear / see discussion as to why it does or doesn't. | 14:24 |
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| enikanorov | vivek-ebay: that is handled by 1 VIP+multiple listeners model | 14:24 |
| enikanorov | vivek-ebay: not multiple VIPs | 14:24 |
| enikanorov | sbalukoff: I think it's fair limitation. If we go beyong it, we put user in much control of a backend | 14:25 |
| TrevorV | enikanorov: what about ipv4 and ipv6? | 14:25 |
| ctracey | +1 enikanorov | 14:25 |
| mestery | Folks, I'd like to point out we're wandering a bit here off the agenda proposed at the start of the meeting. | 14:25 |
| enikanorov | TrevorV: that's multiple subnets | 14:25 |
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| enikanorov | TrevorV: still single neutron port and hence 1 VIP | 14:25 |
| mestery | We're 25 minutes in and we need to focus on items to discuss F2F next week. | 14:25 |
| jorgem | mestery: indeed | 14:26 |
| enikanorov | mestery: true | 14:26 |
| german_ | +1 | 14:26 |
| sbalukoff | mestery: +1 | 14:26 |
| samuelbercovici | mestery: +1 | 14:26 |
| mestery | Can people update the etherpad here with those ideas? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-neutron-lbaas | 14:26 |
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| sbalukoff | enikanorov: Let's discuss via ML | 14:26 |
| mestery | enikanorov linked it earlier. :) | 14:26 |
| sballe_ | I am assuming the APIs should be a item on the summit agenda | 14:26 |
| samuelbercovici | sballe_:+1 | 14:26 |
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| german_ | +1 | 14:26 |
| enikanorov | sballe_: we hardly will be able to discuss it on design session | 14:27 |
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| enikanorov | i don't think it makes sense to cover it... | 14:27 |
| enikanorov | design session is even shorter than our weekly meeting | 14:27 |
| blogan | mestery: what is the current topic? | 14:27 |
| mestery | blogan: Summit ideas for next week to discuss F2F | 14:27 |
| enikanorov | blogan: agenda for design sessions | 14:27 |
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| sballe_ | enikanorov, The problem is we need to get agreement around the APIs otherwise we are going nowhere and we know from the past that it is hard to discuss it on IRC | 14:28 |
| samuelbercovici | When do we want to review the survey results? | 14:28 |
| enikanorov | sballe_: that is something we do offline, but not on the design session | 14:28 |
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| mestery | sballe_: The second part of this meeting was around the API comparison. | 14:28 |
| ctracey | Does it make sense to grab a spare meeting room for a breakout session? I have done this with other projects and it had been quite useful. | 14:28 |
| rm_work | enikanorov / sballe_: we should probably have open discussions about it prior to official sessions, and TRY to use the official sessions to agree officially on a direction? | 14:28 |
| mestery | sballe_: If we're done with summit ideas, we can move there. | 14:28 |
| jorgem | After API, how about HA and SSL Term since the requirements point towards that being top priority? | 14:29 |
| sballe_ | rm_work, +1 | 14:29 |
| german_ | jorgem +1 | 14:29 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: +1 | 14:29 |
| enikanorov | jorgem: please write it on the etherpad then | 14:29 |
| german_ | also I am still new and would like to learn more about the dev process / and how to divvy up work | 14:29 |
| samuelbercovici | I would like to present SSL and L7 in light of what was done and the proposals | 14:29 |
| samuelbercovici | 2nd session could be used for this | 14:30 |
| sballe_ | german_, +1 same here | 14:30 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: complete | 14:30 |
| mestery | For the dev process, we will need BPs approved for all the LBaaS work before any changes will be accepted into Juno. | 14:30 |
| enikanorov | ok, on slightly different matter | 14:30 |
| mestery | We should ideally ahve those in review the week after the summit. | 14:30 |
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| enikanorov | i'll be able to host a meeting at mirantis room some time on wednesday | 14:31 |
| blogan | mestery: is it first a neutron-spec BP, then a neutron BP, then do the work? | 14:31 |
| german_ | + | 14:31 |
| enikanorov | what time will be most appripriate for you foklks? | 14:31 |
| sballe_ | I am going to add API to the list with the caveat taht is is more around as rm_work said "agreeing on a direction" | 14:31 |
| mestery | blogan: A BP in neutron-specs, which is linked from the LP BP. The LP BP is only used to track progress against milestones. | 14:31 |
| blogan | mestery: thanks that clears it up for me | 14:31 |
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| jorgem | sballe: Corret, hopefully we can do that today since that is what was suggested last week. | 14:32 |
| mestery | jorgem: Yes! | 14:32 |
| mestery | Should we move to API comparison now? | 14:32 |
| rm_work | jorgem: agreeing on a direction? :P | 14:32 |
| TrevorV | +1 mestery | 14:32 |
| mestery | I think we have enough ideas for next week to discuss in person now as I look at the etherpad. | 14:33 |
| rm_work | I think that might be a longshot for the next 27 minutes T_T | 14:33 |
| jorgem | rm_work: for the API. There are only two proposals. So let's pick one | 14:33 |
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| sballe_ | jorgem, I can delete the item from the tehrpad if we close it today | 14:33 |
| rm_work | jorgem: as I said in my email, I really don't think that should be the goal | 14:33 |
| jorgem | sballe: Sounds good to me | 14:33 |
| mestery | jorgem: The idea was to find gaps as the proposals were close, correct? | 14:33 |
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| jorgem | mestery: Yes I believe so. | 14:33 |
| rm_work | "I'd like to assume that what we're really discussing is making a third revision of the proposal, rather than whether to use one or the other verbatim." | 14:33 |
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| blogan | mestery: i spoke to sbalukoff about making a change to his API that I think we, as Rackspace, can get behind | 14:34 |
| blogan | mestery: I believe stephen said he is on board with this | 14:34 |
| jorgem | rm_work: We are trying to find a foundation. It isn't set in stone verbatim. | 14:34 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan: Yep, I am! | 14:34 |
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| blogan | mestery: this will hopefully speed that process up of choosing an API | 14:34 |
| mestery | So, have we reached a consensus then between the two proposals due to the discussions blogan and sbalukoff have had? | 14:34 |
| sbalukoff | rm_work: I also agree that whatever we end up with will not be exactly (verbatim) like either of our existing proposals. | 14:35 |
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| jorgem | mestery: Perhaps, but I think they should explain the changes. | 14:35 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: Correct, even though a lot of time and thought have been put into the proposals I still think we will inadvertently miss some small things. | 14:36 |
| blogan | so really the only change is load balancer is the top level object, but it has an array of VIPs, and each VIP has an array of Listeners | 14:36 |
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| german_ | sounds good :-) | 14:36 |
| sbalukoff | So, this is somewhat a return to the "virtual appliance" model. | 14:36 |
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| enikanorov | sbalukoff: yes, that's something a core team is not accepting | 14:37 |
| sbalukoff | That I think a *lot* of people here like, and are waiting to hear why we can't do this. XD | 14:37 |
| jorgem | and stuff like colocation goes on the lb object correct? | 14:37 |
| sballe_ | sbalukoff, +1 | 14:37 |
| blogan | jorgem: yes | 14:37 |
| rm_work | I am curious if, upon reviewing the Rackspace CLB API, and the Amazon ELB API, the same people who disagree with using the term LB here would argue for those APIs to change their terminology too <_< | 14:37 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan +1 | 14:37 |
| enikanorov | rm_work: it's not about the term | 14:37 |
| rm_work | enikanorov: it seems to be | 14:38 |
| enikanorov | rm_work: it's about the API construct | 14:38 |
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| blogan | enikanorov: can you give more details about what is not liked about the construct? | 14:38 |
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| rm_work | the only real opposition I keep hearing is that it doesn't "correctly give an impression of what is contained" or something like that | 14:38 |
| rm_work | like "it only contains one L2 thing and not multiple, so it's not really a LB", etc | 14:39 |
| enikanorov | blogan: i can only refer to a salv-orlando opinion, and also i don't see a reason to have more than 1 l2 port per loadbalancer | 14:39 |
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| rm_work | (I am quoting badly but i don't have time to look up the exact text right now, since this moves so quickly, sorry) | 14:39 |
| sballe_ | we are now back in this circle that we haven't been able ot get out off since we started discussing this | 14:39 |
| blogan | enikanorov: the API doesn't define how many L2 ports are actually created | 14:39 |
| german_ | +1 | 14:39 |
| sballe_ | +1 | 14:40 |
| enikanorov | blogan: i mean l2 ports for the front end | 14:40 |
| sbalukoff | Regardless of the name of the thing (I'm not strongly either way on this-- and y'all have heard my opinion in detail on the mailing list), I think it's more about the logical construct of the virtual appliance in the model. | 14:40 |
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| mestery | sbalukoff: The API is defining the construction of the virtual appliance? Not following this. | 14:41 |
| ctracey | +1 sbalukoff | 14:41 |
| * rm_work starts looking up the ascii-art for flipping a table | 14:41 | |
| sbalukoff | enikanorov: I would like to see ML discussion from you as to why you think we should introduce the restriction that a load balancer construct should only have one L2 port on the front end. | 14:41 |
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| enikanorov | sbalukoff: i'd better ask why we want more then one | 14:42 |
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| sbalukoff | mestery: Yes. So essentially, when a user interacts with the "load balancer as a service" the thing they get is an abstracted logical load balancer (which can contain VIPs, Listeners, Pools, etc.) | 14:42 |
| aburaschi | Where would the right doc to look to better understand the NVF vs Virtual Appliance approaches we're discussing? | 14:42 |
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| sbalukoff | mestery: It makes the colocation / apolocation problem a lot easier. | 14:43 |
| samuelbercovici | sbalukoff: besides scheduling VIPs in the same place or on different places, what is the reason to have loadbalancer as an object that can contain multiple vips? | 14:43 |
| sbalukoff | And it gives us a thing we can use to answer operator concerns later on. | 14:43 |
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| sbalukoff | samuelbercovici: From the user's perspective, that is the reason! | 14:44 |
| blogan | enikanorov: if a user defines multiple VIPs in the API why can't that all go into one L2 Port? | 14:44 |
| enikanorov | sbalukoff: but that problem has other solutions rather than putting it on user's shoulders | 14:44 |
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| sbalukoff | But I think as we further discuss operator concerns, operators will have more reasons to have this construct. | 14:44 |
| enikanorov | blogan: multiple listeners you mean | 14:44 |
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| salv-orlando | I want to throw a bit more chaos… and that's about harmony across all areas of the APIs. I have a feeling that this moves in the opposite direction wrt activities such as policies-oriented APIs are moving. | 14:44 |
| samuelbercovici | sbalukoff: than we can use policies for placement similar to nova | 14:44 |
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| sbalukoff | enikanorov: They might be able to. | 14:44 |
| salv-orlando | or am I reading it wrong? | 14:44 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: +1 | 14:44 |
| samuelbercovici | you don's see a root object called hypervisor in nova | 14:45 |
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| enikanorov | salv-orlando: correct | 14:45 |
| TrevorV | enikanorov: You've stated many times multiple ips on a single neutron port, but looking into the Neutron Port documentation, it defines one subnet for these multiple ports. This apparently negates the concept of an IPv4 and an IPv6 on the same Neutron Port, does it not? | 14:45 |
| sbalukoff | samuelbercovici: But you do see a virtual server. | 14:45 |
| rm_work | samuelbercovici: you do see a "server", which is equivilent to what we're talking about here | 14:45 |
| TrevorV | sorry, one subnet for multiple IPs | 14:45 |
| enikanorov | TrevorV: nope, look at fixed ips that port may have | 14:45 |
| enikanorov | TrevorV: we can discuss that after the meeting | 14:45 |
| mestery | sbalukoff: So are you saying the Open Source implementation of these new APIs will be a virtual appliance? I'm fine if the API allows for appliances as implementations (see VPNaaS), but I'm concerned if the open source default verison is an appliance. | 14:46 |
| samuelbercovici | not sure I understand | 14:46 |
| sbalukoff | mestery: No! | 14:46 |
| sbalukoff | I'm not saying that! | 14:46 |
| sbalukoff | I'm staying there is a lot of flexibility in how you actually implement the "load balancer construct" for the user. | 14:46 |
| sbalukoff | Virtual appliance is one way. | 14:46 |
| enikanorov | sbalukoff: rm_work: virtual server is not an equivalent | 14:46 |
| samuelbercovici | a vip in the way sbalukoff defined is the biggest construct I will ever be interested as a user | 14:46 |
| sbalukoff | An array of virtual appliances is another. | 14:46 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici is right about hypervisor | 14:46 |
| sbalukoff | haproxy on the neutron controller is another. | 14:46 |
| mestery | sbalukoff: OK, just wanted to make sure. :) | 14:47 |
| rm_work | samuelbercovici: you are not an average user, apparently <_< | 14:47 |
| sbalukoff | samuelbercovici: Our users often care about colocation / apolocation (or affininty / anti-affinity) | 14:47 |
| samuelbercovici | I might wish to place some shceuling information such as affinity and falvor to assist in how it gets provisioned | 14:47 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: right, flavors are better in addressing that | 14:48 |
| sballe_ | sbalukoff, +1 | 14:48 |
| german_ | scheduling is another nig issue | 14:48 |
| sbalukoff | flavors still have a place here. | 14:48 |
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| german_ | absolutely | 14:48 |
| samuelbercovici | sbalukoff: why is this requirement different than https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/instance-group-api-extension | 14:48 |
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| rm_work | maybe all of the tens of thousands of users of CLB / ELB are the weird ones, expecting to actually deal with a "loadbalancer" when they use a load balancing service? <_< | 14:49 |
| sbalukoff | samuelbercovici: I will have to read through that blueprint before I can answer that. | 14:49 |
| rm_work | </sarcasm> | 14:49 |
| sbalukoff | rm_work: Haha! | 14:49 |
| sballe_ | rm_work, Our users deal with LB also in our LBaaS service. :-) | 14:49 |
| enikanorov | rm_work: that's about the term. elb API is very limited | 14:49 |
| samuelbercovici | also the ELB loadbalancer as far as iknow == sbalukoff:vip | 14:50 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: correct | 14:50 |
| rm_work | sballe_: erk, sorry to exclude you :P i don't know your acronum | 14:50 |
| blogan | i don't think the term LB is at issue here | 14:50 |
| rm_work | *acronym | 14:50 |
| blogan | its the multiple VIPs | 14:50 |
| blogan | am i wrong here? | 14:50 |
| samuelbercovici | which is different than the Rackspace definition of loadbalancer | 14:50 |
| enikanorov | blogan: it's multiple listeners | 14:50 |
| blogan | enikanorov: then i am confused | 14:50 |
| sbalukoff | I sort of started discussion of what "load balancer" should mean on the mailing list. | 14:51 |
| blogan | enikanorov: listener representing a TCP/UDP port? | 14:51 |
| sbalukoff | I doubt we're going to come to consensus in this IRC meeting. | 14:51 |
| sbalukoff | Maybe people use use ML discussion? | 14:51 |
| samuelbercovici | well, can we do this at the confference F2F, this will be real usefull to be able to also draw stuff | 14:51 |
| enikanorov | blogan: tcp/upd port/protocol/ssl | 14:51 |
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| enikanorov | blogan: no multiple IP per loadbalancer in ELB | 14:51 |
| blogan | enikanorov: what does ELB have to do with it? | 14:52 |
| german_ | +1 | 14:52 |
| sbalukoff | Just to revisit this, though: The idea of having a "logical construct load balanacer virtual appliance thingy" is central to the compromise blogan and I were talking about. | 14:52 |
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| sballe_ | samuelbercovici, +1. We have tried to this on the IRC and on the ML and never really got consensus. A face to face meetign will help to get this discussed and nailed down | 14:52 |
| samuelbercovici | blogan: weel ELB was used to reflect the use of the term loadbalncer | 14:52 |
| aburaschi | Is this something we could summarize in a pros/cons list? (the appliance/nfv thing)... | 14:52 |
| sbalukoff | Between our API proposals. | 14:52 |
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| rm_work | it appears that they return a call-named structure, containing just a DNS name, but the term LoadBalancer is stamped ALL over their docs | 14:53 |
| samuelbercovici | so when can everyone interested meet if not on LBaaS session? | 14:53 |
| rm_work | nothing about a VIP | 14:53 |
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| enikanorov | i'm proposing to have a meeting on wednesday | 14:53 |
| enikanorov | in mirantis private room | 14:53 |
| jorgem | mestery: Can we identify the issues with compromised API proposal? | 14:53 |
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| enikanorov | i need to coordinate with my team to find out the time | 14:53 |
| ptoohill | I know this is a bit off of which ever topic is being discussed at the moment. But how do these talks fit in if ejecting advanced services is still up for discussions. Should i not be worrying about that at this point? | 14:53 |
| mestery | jorgem: Yes, that was the idea. We have 7 minutes. :) | 14:54 |
| blogan | can we get a detailed description of the objections to this on the ML? I'd really like to understand it so I can make an informed decision, I'm definitely missing something | 14:54 |
| rm_work | I'm proposing we have a meeting Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday and continue until we actually decide something we agree on <_< | 14:54 |
| sballe_ | enikanorov, sounds good. The Neutron pod migth be available too | 14:54 |
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| mestery | rm_work: Should we start on Sunday perhaps? | 14:54 |
| sbalukoff | Heh! I haven't nailed down everything on my summit agenda yet. enikanorov: Can you send out info on this to the mailing list? | 14:54 |
| * mestery runs and hides. :) | 14:54 | |
| rm_work | mestery: if you all want to meet for a beer, I get in sunday night :P | 14:54 |
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| sballe_ | mestery, Unfortunately I will first be there Monday | 14:54 |
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| sbalukoff | mestery: I could do Sunday evening. | 14:54 |
| sbalukoff | Dang. | 14:54 |
| rm_work | mestery: point us to a good pub :) | 14:54 |
| enikanorov | sbalukoff: sure | 14:54 |
| * mestery takes note to find a place for Sunday evening. | 14:55 | |
| enikanorov | i think that will be personal invites | 14:55 |
| german_ | I get there Monday as well | 14:55 |
| german_ | not very interested in keynotes :-) | 14:55 |
| blogan | enikanorov: can you send an email on the ML with a detailed objection to multiple listeners? | 14:55 |
| mestery | german_: :P | 14:55 |
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| blogan | enikanorov: speak to me like im a child, i dont care, i just want to understand it | 14:55 |
| samuelbercovici | blogan: no one objects to multiple listeners | 14:55 |
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| sballe_ | I am just two hours away so I should be in Atlanta aaround 9am on Monday | 14:55 |
| enikanorov | blogan: i have no objection on multiple listeners, as they are descried in BBG API proposal | 14:55 |
| sbalukoff | Oh! Can we get everyone to please fill out samuel's survey before the summit? | 14:56 |
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| blogan | enikanorov: then what ever the object you have is | 14:56 |
| samuelbercovici | blogan: the objections is to multiple different IPs (for VIPs) under a loadbalancer object | 14:56 |
| sbalukoff | And samuel: Can you share the preliminary data from the survey? | 14:56 |
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| blogan | enikanorov: and i realize it is not just you, but you understand the general objection | 14:56 |
| sbalukoff | (at the summit) | 14:56 |
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| samuelbercovici | esurv.org/online-survey.php?surveyID=OBDJOJ_e56c2e0b&u=lbaas_project_user | 14:56 |
| enikanorov | blogan: yes, samuelbercovici is correct about what people (including me) object to | 14:56 |
| samuelbercovici | password lbaas | 14:56 |
| blogan | samuelbercovici: is the object just because not all load balancing implementations allow multipel VIPs? | 14:57 |
| sbalukoff | enikanorov: I would love to see mailing list discussion about multiple l2 ports on a load balancer object. | 14:57 |
| rm_work | samuelbercovici / sbalukoff: my survey answers would probably be verbatim what jorge put down, but I guess I can do it anyway if we'll be compiling metrics based on overall responses <_< | 14:57 |
| enikanorov | sbalukoff: ok sure | 14:57 |
| sbalukoff | rm_work: It's not anonymous, so it doesn't hurt to have many people from the same organization filling out the survey. | 14:58 |
| aburaschi | wow, quite a complete survey :) | 14:58 |
| samuelbercovici | blogan: noin my opinion it violates the freedome of the backend to properly and efficiently scheule | 14:58 |
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| * mestery notes there is only 2 minutes left in the meeting. | 14:58 | |
| sbalukoff | aburaschi: Yes! Please fill it out. :D | 14:58 |
| samuelbercovici | blogan:if the reason is for affinity, than it should have the right "hints" to say so and not using an hierarhical cunstruct | 14:58 |
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| mestery | Lets use the etherpad enikanorov posted for discussions next week during the LBaaS sessions. | 14:58 |
| sbalukoff | Ok, anything left unresolved about the meeting agenda for next week should happen on the mailing list. | 14:58 |
| mestery | Agreed sbalukoff. | 14:59 |
| sbalukoff | Or etherpad. | 14:59 |
| sbalukoff | :) | 14:59 |
| blogan | samuelbercovici: is it the scheduling of neutron ports? | 14:59 |
| vjay | samuelbercovici: +1 | 14:59 |
| ptoohill | one note, friends from China cant seem to use google docs. There was a complaint in the ML about it. so we should keep that in mind for future | 14:59 |
| sballe_ | we'll need meetings Mon, Tues, Wed, etc... Do we schedule these ad-hoc once we get there? | 14:59 |
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| samuelbercovici | blogan: lest meet after this on openstack-neutron to discuss further | 14:59 |
| rm_work | sbalukoff: who knows, maybe I will disagree with jorgem on something on the survey… but since it's not anonymous, he might demote me if I disagree :P | 14:59 |
| rm_work | (j/k) | 14:59 |
| sbalukoff | ptoohill Good to know! | 14:59 |
| jorgem | rm_work: yes! lol | 15:00 |
| blogan | samuelbercovici: sounds good to me | 15:00 |
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| jorgem | alright to the ML we come! | 15:00 |
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| enikanorov | ok folks, let's wrap up | 15:00 |
| mestery | Thanks everyone! | 15:00 |
| rm_work | toodles! | 15:00 |
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| sbalukoff | Haha! Thanks y'all! | 15:00 |
| german_ | thanks | 15:00 |
| ptoohill | bye | 15:00 |
| sballe_ | bye | 15:00 |
| enikanorov | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| mestery | Looking forward to seeing everyone F2F next week! | 15:00 |
| aburaschi | Have a good day, thanks. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 8 15:00:43 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| eglynn | #startmeeting ceilometer | 15:00 |
| samuelbercovici | bye | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-05-08-14.03.html | 15:00 |
| nealph | /msg NickServ identify FN49Ford | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-05-08-14.03.txt | 15:00 |
| german_ | bye | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-05-08-14.03.log.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 8 15:00:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:00 |
| edhall | bye | 15:01 |
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| eglynn | who's all around for the ceilo meeting? | 15:01 |
| ildikov | o/ | 15:01 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:01 |
| gordc | o/ | 15:01 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 15:01 |
| DinaBelova | o/ | 15:01 |
| _nadya_ | o/ | 15:01 |
| nsaje | o/ | 15:01 |
| nealph | o/ | 15:01 |
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| eglynn | cool, so not everyone already on the midnight train to Georgia ;) | 15:02 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: LOL :) | 15:02 |
| enikanorov | \o/ | 15:02 |
| eglynn | #topic summit finalization | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit finalization (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:02 | |
| eglynn | so we had a bit of horse-trading earlier this week around the design track scheduling | 15:02 |
| eglynn | (to avoid conflicts with other tracks etc.) | 15:03 |
| eglynn | so if you haven't checked the schedule recently, please give it another look ... | 15:03 |
| eglynn | #link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/ceilometer | 15:03 |
| llu-laptop | is https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#Ceilometer up-to-date? | 15:03 |
| eglynn | llu-laptop: yeah good point | 15:04 |
| eglynn | anyone who's leading a session, pls prepare an etherpad in advance | 15:04 |
| eglynn | and link it to the master list llu-laptop mentions above | 15:04 |
| gordc | llu-laptop: i've updated the wiki to reflect latest scheduleing change | 15:04 |
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| ildikov | sure, will do, thanks for reminding | 15:04 |
| eglynn | gordc: thanks much! | 15:04 |
| nsaje | Will do | 15:05 |
| gordc | eglynn: np | 15:05 |
| llu-laptop | gordc: thx | 15:05 |
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| eglynn | BTW the ceilometer pod will apparently be available from the Monday | 15:05 |
| DinaBelova | heh, cool) | 15:05 |
| jd__ | o/ | 15:05 |
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| eglynn | ... not sure of the exact location of the pod, but the signage should be adequate ;) | 15:06 |
| eglynn | we'll be gathering there at 2pm on the Monday to talk about TSDaaS etc. | 15:06 |
| ildikov | eglynn: you can never be sure ;) | 15:06 |
| eglynn | ildikov: ... yeah I'm bringing my Garmin eTrex just in case ;) | 15:07 |
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| eglynn | we should also aim to use the pod space for any ad-hoc discussions that come up during the week | 15:07 |
| eglynn | ... kinda like a focal point or whatever | 15:07 |
| ildikov | eglynn: cool, I will follow you then ;) | 15:08 |
| nealph | eglynn: I like that idea...a natural spot to continue discussions "offline" | 15:08 |
| eglynn | cool ... I think the pod idea is an experiment for this summit, seems like a good idea to me | 15:09 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: +1 | 15:09 |
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| eglynn | not sure if there's anything else to discuss about summit? | 15:09 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, possibly it'll be nice to prepare some list of topics? for the pod discussions... | 15:09 |
| dhellmann | yeah, the pods take the place of the unconference | 15:09 |
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| eglynn | DinaBelova: ... yeah I think the scheduling will be fast and loose, first come first served | 15:10 |
| DinaBelova | as there were lots of small topics this and last week | 15:10 |
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| eglynn | DinaBelova: ... maybe just use the fipchart/WB to manage a rough emergent schedule | 15:11 |
| DinaBelova | +1 | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: do you know if we're sharing our pod with another team? I know some are, but I don't know how they are grouped. | 15:11 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: good question, I heard nova+glance are sharing so likely we'll be too | 15:12 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: I'll check ... if I had to guess, my money would be on us sharing with heat | 15:12 |
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| dhellmann | that would make sense | 15:13 |
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| eglynn | cool enough, I guess we can move on | 15:14 |
| jd__ | I hope we share with tempest | 15:14 |
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| ildikov | jd__: and then with infra too | 15:14 |
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| eglynn | jd__: yeah that would be good, osmosis by proximity ;) | 15:15 |
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| * jd__ auto-high-five himself for this joke | 15:15 | |
| eglynn | LOL :) | 15:15 |
| ildikov | LOL :) | 15:15 |
| eglynn | #topic BP review process | 15:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BP review process (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:15 | |
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| eglynn | I took an action in our previous meeting to bring a proposal to the table on that | 15:15 |
| eglynn | so here goes ... | 15:16 |
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| eglynn | ... the idea is mainly to follow the nova lead on this, but with some tweaks | 15:16 |
| eglynn | first I don't think there's a need to have a separate team responsible for BP-review and code-review | 15:16 |
| eglynn | so the ceilo-drivers team should remain equivalent to the ceilo-core team IMO | 15:17 |
| eglynn | #link https://launchpad.net/~ceilometer-drivers/+members#active | 15:17 |
| eglynn | (whereas for nova AFAICS, only a subset of the cores ... | 15:17 |
| eglynn | https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/25,members | 15:17 |
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| eglynn | ... are also drivers: | 15:17 |
| eglynn | https://launchpad.net/~nova-drivers/+members#active ) | 15:17 |
| eglynn | that distinction doesn't seem necessary to me | 15:18 |
| ildikov | I think currently we can handle it and later we can decide to have a separate team for this, if needed | 15:18 |
| eglynn | yeap ... on a project of the size of ceilo, one team of reviewers is plenty | 15:18 |
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| eglynn | k, that's uncontroversial so | 15:19 |
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| eglynn | second, I hacked out a draft BP template | 15:19 |
| eglynn | based on nova but customized for ceilo-specifics | 15:19 |
| eglynn | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-juno-blueprint-template | 15:19 |
| eglynn | ... actually, easier to read as exported txt | 15:19 |
| eglynn | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-juno-blueprint-template/export/txt | 15:20 |
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| eglynn | as mentioned on the chanell earlier ... | 15:20 |
| eglynn | TL;DR: the explicit diffs WRT the nova original are ... http://fpaste.org/100125/54945513/ | 15:20 |
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| eglynn | ... dunno if there's anything contraversial in that | 15:22 |
| eglynn | ... it's mainly motherhood and applepie ;) | 15:22 |
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| eglynn | other than maybe: The ceilometer project is explicitly not interested in "code drops", ... | 15:23 |
| ildikov | eglynn: I'm not sure we should drop unit/scenario tests and focus only on tempest | 15:23 |
| ildikov | eglynn: but this topic can be further discussed on the testing session in ATL | 15:23 |
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| eglynn | ildikov: cool ... feel free to hack away on that etherpad with your thoughts | 15:23 |
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| _nadya_ | ildikov: absolutely. tempest is not for unit testing | 15:24 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: cool, I will do that before the session and include this etherpad in the session agenda too | 15:24 |
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| eglynn | _nadya_: so the point in the BP template is that unit/scenario test coverage is assumed, so don't bother telling us about it | 15:25 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: coverage is not enough | 15:25 |
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| eglynn | _nadya_: ... whereas we *really* want to know about your plan tempest coverage! :) | 15:25 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: we need more negative tests for instance, than we have now | 15:25 |
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| _nadya_ | eglynn: we will discuss it on topic about tempest :) | 15:26 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: but we can move on now and discuss it on the summit, we have several topics for today | 15:27 |
| eglynn | anyhoo the idea would be that any new BPs for Juno would be proposed to gerrit, along the lines of the nova-specs project ... | 15:27 |
| eglynn | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-specs,n,z | 15:27 |
| eglynn | anyone know what's required to set up a new repo under https://github.com/openstack ? | 15:28 |
| ildikov | eglynn: so this means that the currently proposed ones should be rewritten according to the template, right? | 15:28 |
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| llu-laptop | eglynn: just want to ask the same question about ceilometer-specs | 15:28 |
| eglynn | ildikov: ... yes anything targetted at Juno should go thru the same process | 15:28 |
| eglynn | (IMO) | 15:28 |
| ildikov | eglynn: do we have a deadline for this? | 15:28 |
| gordc | ildikov: good way to filter out which of the current bps are actually active. | 15:28 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: I can help with the repo setup | 15:29 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: excellent! ... I was hoping someone would step up :) | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: https://review.openstack.org/92614 | 15:29 |
| DinaBelova | I guess it | 15:29 |
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| DinaBelova | will be needed to make change to the infra-config | 15:29 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: if you give me a github repo that you want imported, I can shepherd the change through | 15:29 |
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| nealph | gordc: +1 | 15:29 |
| ildikov | gordc: sure, I agree, I just need to know that until when, I should rewrite my owns :) | 15:29 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: cool, will do, thank you sir! | 15:30 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, dhellmann- smth like this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91723/ | 15:30 |
| eglynn | ... so all this is just a proposal that I'm seeking buy-in on from the project team | 15:30 |
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| eglynn | ... does anyone have any reservations about the idea? | 15:30 |
| gordc | none from me. | 15:31 |
| llu-laptop | I think we also need to update the CM section around https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Nova | 15:31 |
| eglynn | gordc: cool :) | 15:31 |
| eglynn | llu-laptop: agreed | 15:31 |
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| ildikov | I like the idea now | 15:32 |
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| ildikov | I will less like it during the refactor process and after that I will like it again ;) | 15:32 |
| eglynn | ildikov: LOL :) ... think of it an "investment" | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | DinaBelova: yes | 15:32 |
| eglynn | (hard to think of word-smithing as productive work, I know ...) | 15:33 |
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| eglynn | so once we've the repo and gerrit project set up, I guess we could review the BP template on gerrit | 15:33 |
| eglynn | (using the content in the etherpad linked above as the initial version) | 15:33 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, cool) | 15:34 |
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| eglynn | k, sounds like no need to put all that new process overhead to a vote | 15:34 |
| ildikov | eglynn: cool, I guess we will have more BP after the summit, than before, so it is ok to use that as an initial | 15:34 |
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| eglynn | cool | 15:35 |
| ildikov | eglynn: and also prolly it will not change much | 15:35 |
| eglynn | yeap agreed | 15:35 |
| eglynn | k, best move on I guess? | 15:35 |
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| eglynn | #topic tempest status | 15:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tempest status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:35 | |
| _nadya_ | we've started working on scenario tests | 15:36 |
| eglynn | cool | 15:36 |
| _nadya_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92108/ | 15:37 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: BTW thanks for the tempest input in ildikov's test strategy etherpad for summit | 15:37 |
| _nadya_ | yep, it's just a draft and any other inputs are very welcome | 15:38 |
| _nadya_ | JFYI #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-test-strategy | 15:38 |
| eglynn | are we overloading the term "scenario test" a bit here? | 15:38 |
| eglynn | ... but I guess that's the usual Tempest terminology | 15:38 |
| _nadya_ | and that's all from me. btw, does anyone know the status of ubuntu14 on gating? | 15:39 |
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| ildikov | _nadya_: thanks, my notebook is half dead, so I got gibi's for the time of the meeting... :S | 15:39 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn: afaik "scenario" is tempest term for more compex tests | 15:39 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: haven't heard anything, but I intended to twist some infra arms in ATL next week | 15:39 |
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| eglynn | _nadya_: cool, makes sense ... just contrasting with our mongo/sqla/hbase/db2 scenario tests in the ceil code-tree | 15:40 |
| _nadya_ | eglynn: yep, it's great opportunity | 15:40 |
| eglynn | *ceilo | 15:40 |
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| eglynn | cool, I guess we can move on? | 15:41 |
| _nadya_ | yep | 15:41 |
| eglynn | #topic Monitoring-as-a-Service | 15:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Monitoring-as-a-Service (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:41 | |
| eglynn | raised by aviau on the ML | 15:41 |
| aviau | Hello everyone! | 15:41 |
| eglynn | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-May/034189.html | 15:41 |
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| aviau | I have recently submitted a blueprint to Ceilometer and I wanted to get in touch with you. We are looking for reactions from the Ceilometer team for a possible Monitoring service. | 15:41 |
| eglynn | aviau: hey! :) | 15:41 |
| eglynn | aviau pity you're not going to be in ATL next week to discuss face-to-face | 15:42 |
| aviau | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/monitoring-as-a-service | 15:42 |
| ildikov | aviau: hi | 15:42 |
| eglynn | aviau: ... but the floor is your's for now :) | 15:42 |
| aviau | eglynn, I will be available for the next summit. | 15:42 |
| eglynn | aviau: cool ... how do you want to move the discussoin forward in the meantime? | 15:42 |
| eglynn | aviau: ... a recurring topic in this meeting maybe? | 15:42 |
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| aviau | eglynn, This would be a great idea. | 15:43 |
| eglynn | aviau: cool, let's aim to that starting the week after summit | 15:43 |
| eglynn | (no meeting next week) | 15:43 |
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| aviau | eglynn, Good, I will hold discussions until that meeting. | 15:44 |
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| eglynn | aviau: cool | 15:44 |
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| eglynn | BTW we do need to be cognizant of the perception of "misson creep" | 15:44 |
| eglynn | ... as expressed say in the debate around the project mission statement | 15:44 |
| eglynn | #link https://review.openstack.org/87526 | 15:45 |
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| eglynn | but overall I think we shouldn't be too afraid to explore this direction | 15:45 |
| aviau | What is your take on this? | 15:45 |
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| eglynn | aviau: my gut feeling is "big tent" :) | 15:46 |
| aviau | Hopefully that will work. I think that Monitoring is closely related to Metering. | 15:46 |
| ildikov | eglynn: do you mean to explore the monitoring direction? | 15:46 |
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| gordc | aviau: i would think your bp falls under the mission statment we had since grizzly (whether any work was done on it or not) | 15:47 |
| ildikov | aviau: do you plan to implement a monitoring tool-like service or it is focusing more on events in OpenStack? | 15:47 |
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| eglynn | ildikov: yes, I think we should at least be open to that possibility | 15:47 |
| aviau | ildikov, For how, the focus is not on the events in OpenStack. | 15:47 |
| aviau | However, this is still a blueprint. Now work has been done yet and we hope to receive feedback. | 15:48 |
| aviau | no* | 15:48 |
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| ildikov | aviau: I meant that monitoring means to ping the hosts/guests to check availability or processing more kinds of events coming from the other services than we deal with currently? | 15:49 |
| gordc | aviau: seems like it's a meld of polling agents and events -- i'll make comments to your bp. | 15:49 |
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| eglynn | seem like this BP would be a good guinea pig for the BP review process? | 15:49 |
| ildikov | eglynn: this seems to be an excellent candidate :) | 15:50 |
| aviau | ildikov, ping the host/guests to check availability. It would be great if we supported Nagios standards. | 15:50 |
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| aviau | I will read up on the review process, thanks. | 15:51 |
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| eglynn | aviau: ... ^^^ discussed above (mechanics not yet in place) | 15:51 |
| _nadya_ | aviau: I'm not nagios expert but can use Nagios+Ceilo together? | 15:51 |
| ildikov | aviau: do we plan to do this, when there are n+1 monitoring tools that can do that? | 15:51 |
| _nadya_ | aviau: I mean not to create a Nagios-like-tool but use Nagios itself? | 15:52 |
| aviau | #link https://github.com/savoirfairelinux/check_ceilometer | 15:52 |
| aviau | #link http://blog.zhaw.ch/icclab/nagios-ceilometer-integration-new-plugin-available/ | 15:52 |
| aviau | You can use nagios to monitor OpenStack. | 15:52 |
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| _nadya_ | aviau: so why it may be useful to create one more Nagios inside Ceilo? | 15:53 |
| _nadya_ | aviau: I'm just asking, to understand better :) | 15:53 |
| ildikov | aviau: and what would MaaS do then? | 15:53 |
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| eglynn | ... sounds like there's some scoping needed here, to avoid the perception of wheel-reinvention | 15:54 |
| aviau | however, Ceilometer currently won't give you all the information you need about your guests. Ceilometer does not know if my web service is up, for example. | 15:54 |
| aviau | eglynn, Absolutely! Work has to be done on possible use cases. | 15:54 |
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| ildikov | aviau: I'm not sure Ceilometer should check web services | 15:55 |
| eglynn | aviau: ... so we need a justification for why ceilo should be concerned about that, as opposed to just using existing tooling | 15:55 |
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| eglynn | aviau: (not necessarily needed right now, but food for thought and future discussoin) | 15:55 |
| eglynn | ... k, let's continue the discussion on gerrit? | 15:56 |
| eglynn | (... once the git/gerrit incantations have been incanted) | 15:56 |
| _nadya_ | yep | 15:56 |
| aviau | Yep | 15:56 |
| eglynn | #topic Issues raised by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86408/, how to preserve per disk metrics, per net interface metrics? | 15:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Issues raised by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86408/, how to preserve per disk metrics, per net interface metrics? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:56 | |
| ildikov | yep, we are running out of time here | 15:56 |
| eglynn | prad__: defer that discussion ^^^ to ATL? | 15:57 |
| ildikov | will we have a chance to discuss this on the summit? | 15:57 |
| prad__ | eglynn: sure i’m cool with that | 15:57 |
| _nadya_ | mm :) | 15:57 |
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| eglynn | prad__: one for the pod methinks | 15:57 |
| prad__ | probably a good topic for pod | 15:58 |
| DinaBelova | prad__ +1 | 15:58 |
| _nadya_ | I will try to summarize all my thoughts too | 15:58 |
| ildikov | eglynn, prad__: +1 | 15:58 |
| llu-laptop | +1 for pod | 15:58 |
| _nadya_ | *somewhere, in cr maybe | 15:58 |
| prad__ | thx _nadya_ | 15:58 |
| prad__ | does it make sense to have an etherpad for pod with topics to discuss | 15:59 |
| eglynn | TBH the sample-datapoints-in-resource-metadata idea will be problematic in the context of TSDaaS | 15:59 |
| eglynn | ... but let's punt to the pod | 15:59 |
| ildikov | prad__: I just wanted to ask you to prepare one :) | 15:59 |
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| prad__ | sure i can do that | 15:59 |
| eglynn | 30 second warning ;) | 15:59 |
| ildikov | prad__: cool, thanks | 15:59 |
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| _nadya_ | as for me it's related to data-model topic too | 15:59 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: yeap | 15:59 |
| eglynn | #topic open discussion | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:59 | |
| eglynn | up against the shot-clock | 16:00 |
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| eglynn | anything else maybe we bring to the project channel? | 16:00 |
| DinaBelova | +1 | 16:00 |
| eglynn | thanks as always folks for a productive meeting! | 16:01 |
| eglynn | #endmeeting ceilometer | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 8 16:01:07 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-05-08-15.00.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-05-08-15.00.txt | 16:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-05-08-15.00.log.html | 16:01 |
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| _nadya_ | have a nice summit, folks! | 16:01 |
| ildikov | thanks everyone | 16:01 |
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| ildikov | _nadya_: thanks :( :) | 16:01 |
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| mikal | Nova meering in one minute! | 20:58 |
| devoid | !! | 20:58 |
| openstack | devoid: Error: "!" is not a valid command. | 20:58 |
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| devoid | oops :-( | 20:59 |
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| mriedem | mikal? | 21:00 |
| mikal | mriedem: Hi! | 21:00 |
| mikal | Ok, so let's do this thing | 21:00 |
| mriedem | o/ | 21:01 |
| devoid | :D | 21:01 |
| yjiang5 | o/ | 21:01 |
| mikal | #startmeeting nova | 21:01 |
| mikal | #topic Introduction | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 8 21:01:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mikal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| mikal | So, thanks everyone for coming to the first nova meeting for Juno. I think we have a lot of exciting work to do this cycle, so I’m pretty pumped about the opportunities before us. Please be gentle while I learn to drive meetbot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| jogo | o/ | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:01 |
| devoid | o/ | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduction (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
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| dansmith | o/ | 21:01 |
| alaski | hi | 21:01 |
| melwitt | o/ | 21:01 |
| leifz | o/ | 21:01 |
| mikal | Its weird to me having one of these not at 7am | 21:01 |
| tjones | hi | 21:01 |
| mikal | That said, onto more specific things… | 21:02 |
| mikal | #topic Upcoming summit | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upcoming summit (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| mikal | The obvious thing for us to be prepping for is the summit next week. The nova track is over three days, and has 20 something sessions. | 21:02 |
| mikal | danpb kindly pre-created all the session etherpads for us, which are at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#Nova. | 21:02 |
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| mikal | For people with accepted sessions: | 21:02 |
| mikal | - if you have associated blueprints, please make sure your on top of the feedback on your spec review before the session | 21:02 |
| mikal | - if your session doesn’t have any blueprints associated with it, should it? | 21:02 |
| mikal | - please have an outline of what you want to discuss in your ether pad before the session (preferably at least the _day_ before) | 21:02 |
| mikal | What other things do we need to do to prepare for the summit? | 21:02 |
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| devoid | Any nova-devs out there that are also operators, please contribute to the operators in design summit etherpad | 21:04 |
| devoid | … digging up link... | 21:04 |
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| mikal | Yep, there's also a nova operators session that needs fleshing out | 21:04 |
| mikal | I think the ether pad for that session would be the right place for people to contribute | 21:04 |
| devoid | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-summit-ops-volunteer | 21:04 |
| mriedem | can i put my question about dropping null instance uuid records on the nova operators session? :) | 21:04 |
| mikal | devoid: I think we're talking about the same session? | 21:04 |
| mikal | mriedem: that's a really good idea | 21:04 |
| devoid | mikal: there is alos an effort to have operators in every design session. | 21:05 |
| mikal | devoid: yep, the nova session is at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-nova-devops | 21:05 |
| mikal | devoid: so if people have things that are nova specific I'd prefer they go there | 21:05 |
| mriedem | cool, thanks | 21:05 |
| mikal | Instead of trying to dig the nova bits out of another etherpad on the fly | 21:05 |
| devoid | mriedem: yes | 21:05 |
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| mriedem | oh shazbot i'll be heading to the airport | 21:06 |
| mriedem | oops | 21:06 |
| mikal | I know that VW was also going to take a look at that session, but probabky not until later this week | 21:06 |
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| mriedem | maybe jaypipes can be my proxy :) | 21:06 |
| mikal | mriedem: we could ask for you? If you remind us in the etherpad? | 21:06 |
| mriedem | yeah | 21:06 |
| jogo | devoid: has anyone given these ops a crash course on how the design summit works, to maximize there usefulness? | 21:06 |
| devoid | mriedem: yea, dev/ops summit timing could have been better | 21:06 |
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| devoid | mriedem: just rescheduled my flights | 21:06 |
| mikal | jogo: not that I am aware of, this is an experiement | 21:06 |
| devoid | jogo: I can only speak for myself in this respect. | 21:06 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: sure thing. | 21:06 |
| jogo | because if this is there first design summit, a crash course would really help | 21:07 |
| devoid | jogo: Tom's email was clear though: " Though, please note that you should do some preparation, like reading the associated blueprint, in order to avoid asking "beginners" questions ... developers have very limited time to get a lot done!" | 21:07 |
| mikal | jogo: we can do a quick "what to expect" at the start of each day or somethign if that would help | 21:07 |
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| jaypipes | jogo: Tom and Tim have been discussing the summit format and expectations with the operators, yes. | 21:07 |
| mikal | I think that's also my job is to reign in tangents when they happen | 21:07 |
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| devoid | jogo, mikal, I will try to convey any dev concerns you have during the monday ops meetings. | 21:08 |
| jogo | ahh good, thanks | 21:08 |
| mikal | Thanks | 21:08 |
| mikal | Is there anything else for the summit? | 21:08 |
| mikal | I just want to reinforce that good prep this week means we're all a little less busy next week | 21:08 |
| devoid | I have a minor request for libvirt dev time, like 15 minutes to help me w/ my sheepdog blueprint | 21:08 |
| devoid | not sure if that belongs in errata | 21:08 |
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| mikal | devoid: can we table that until open discssion at the end? | 21:09 |
| devoid | mikal: yes, cool | 21:09 |
| mikal | Thanks | 21:09 |
| mikal | Although, I should point out there will be a nova "pod" in the dev lounge | 21:09 |
| mikal | So people can hang out as a group in breaks etc | 21:09 |
| mikal | Not sure if it has 200 seats though... | 21:09 |
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| mikal | So nothing else about the summit? | 21:10 |
| mikal | #action devoid to make sure that ops have been briefed on how the design summits work | 21:10 |
| mikal | #topic bugs | 21:10 |
| mikal | Another thing I’d like to be tracking in these meetings is what high priority bugs people think we need to be looking at, or which have fixes out there waiting for a code review. Is there anything like that at the moment? | 21:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:10 | |
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| jogo | mikal: I don't have a bug number but I have seen a bunch of quota issues being filed recently | 21:11 |
| mikal | jogo: oh, interesting | 21:11 |
| jaypipes | mikal: there's a bug triage day scheduled for th emonday after the summit... | 21:11 |
| mikal | jogo: new bugs, or just people with a new use case? | 21:11 |
| tjones | mikal: i'd like to chat with you at the summit to talk about bugs | 21:11 |
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| mikal | jaypipes: project wide you mean? | 21:11 |
| mikal | tjones: I'd love that | 21:11 |
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| mikal | #action tjones and mikal to chat about bug triage at summit | 21:12 |
| jaypipes | mikal: yes, I believe so. just lettin gyou know... SergeyLukjanov was organizing. | 21:12 |
| jogo | mikal: new bugs | 21:12 |
| mikal | jaypipes: its news to me, but I think it sounds like a good idea | 21:12 |
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| mikal | jogo: hmmm, when you get some numbers want to send them my way? | 21:12 |
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| jogo | https://bugs.launchpad.net/tripleo/+bug/1284424 | 21:12 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1284424 in nova "nova quota statistics can be incorrect" [High,Confirmed] | 21:12 |
| jogo | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1297590 | 21:13 |
| mikal | jogo: or alternatively, is anyone looking at them already? | 21:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1297590 in nova "Quota leakage issue " [Undecided,New] | 21:13 |
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| mriedem | there are a few in progress patches for some quotas bugs i think | 21:13 |
| mikal | #action Quota bugs: 1284424 1297590 | 21:13 |
| jogo | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1301532 | 21:13 |
| mriedem | i usually associate comstud with quotas :) | 21:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1301532 in ossa "Quotas can be exceeded by making highly parallel requests" [Undecided,Won't fix] | 21:13 |
| mikal | mriedem: heh, I think comstuf has escaped to ironic... | 21:13 |
| mikal | comstud even | 21:14 |
| mikal | #action Quota bugs: 1301532 | 21:14 |
| mriedem | there was also a db api race with getting quota values that i saw this weekend, but it's and old issue | 21:14 |
| mikal | There are also a _lot_ of live migration bugs open at the moment, but most of them have been around a while | 21:14 |
| mriedem | maybe we start tagging them? | 21:14 |
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| mikal | We just need someone to be systematic about fixing them all | 21:14 |
| jogo | mikal: a hard thing with live migration is no gating on it | 21:14 |
| mikal | jogo: agreed | 21:14 |
| jogo | mriedem: ++ to tagging em | 21:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | mikal: i did create a tag about that, I had planned to take a look | 21:15 |
| mikal | jogo: and the number of storage / hypervisor permutations | 21:15 |
| mikal | johnthetubaguy: for quota or live migration? | 21:15 |
| mriedem | i think mtreinish and the QA boyz were looking at multi-node testing in the gate for juno? | 21:15 |
| devoid | mikal: yes, tons of ways to do it | 21:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | mikal: live-migrate, maybe it was unofficial at the time | 21:15 |
| mikal | johnthetubaguy: oh, interesting. I wrote up a summary a month or so but haven't done anything else with it | 21:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | mikal: kinda working through some of those issues with live-migrate, kinda half way through the refactor | 21:16 |
| mikal | johnthetubaguy: but I'd be interested in sharing state with anyone wanting to take a look at them | 21:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | mikal: but I think johannes was going to take a look | 21:16 |
| mikal | johnthetubaguy: I'm scared of changing that stuff without fixing the gating issue | 21:16 |
| dansmith | I made a change recently, | 21:16 |
| mikal | I'd even settle for third party CI on it until we can get something in the gate | 21:16 |
| dansmith | and Hans Lindgren manually tested my change for me in a real environment :) | 21:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | mikal: yeah, its getting the two machine setup | 21:16 |
| dansmith | it sucked, but I was *really* happy to have someone validate it :) | 21:16 |
| mikal | Actually a multinode devstack isn't too bad | 21:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | dansmith: yeah, thats all I have been doing | 21:17 |
| dansmith | I think it's reserving pairs in nodepool | 21:17 |
| mikal | That's how I tested that config drive live migration problem | 21:17 |
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| johnthetubaguy | mikal: yeah I have that on my laptop, but its just getting in gate is messier | 21:17 |
| sdague | mikal: there is some basic hooks in nodepool now for multi node allocation | 21:17 |
| mikal | I am _sure_ I saw a design summit session on multi node gating | 21:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: awesome news | 21:17 |
| mikal | If there is one, we should send some people to beg | 21:17 |
| sdague | but it needs some real work to pull it all together | 21:17 |
| sdague | mikal: I don't think we landed a multi node session | 21:18 |
| mikal | sdague: is someone doing that work, or does it need a body? | 21:18 |
| clarkb | sdague: mikal: and in theory nothing prevents doing it now. You just might need to setup openvpn and so on | 21:18 |
| sdague | right now it needs a body | 21:18 |
| comstud | mikal: I haven't fully escaped | 21:18 |
| mikal | sdague: you could probably trick mattoliverau into taking a look | 21:18 |
| mikal | sdague: he's been playing with the nodepool code a lot already | 21:18 |
| sdague | mikal: will he be in atlanta? | 21:19 |
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| mikal | Definitely for juno I'd like to see some form of gating on live migration | 21:19 |
| mikal | sdague: yes | 21:19 |
| mikal | Even if it doesn't have 100% coverage | 21:19 |
| devoid | out of curiosity, what kind of live-migration config? | 21:19 |
| mikal | Anything is better than what we have now | 21:19 |
| sdague | mikal: ok, make sure we find each other. I'll walk him through current thinking if he can dive on it early | 21:19 |
| mikal | sdague: ok | 21:19 |
| mikal | #action mikal to introduce mattoliverau to sdague for multi node dev stack in gate | 21:20 |
| mikal | devoid: for gating you mean? | 21:20 |
| devoid | mikal: yea, lots of ways to do it. | 21:20 |
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| devoid | also not clear if certain ways functionally work (e.g. shared storage w/ ceph, gluster, etc.) | 21:21 |
| mikal | devoid: I think I'd like to see the tests refactored in a way where any new storage driver ends up requiring a test for it | 21:21 |
| devoid | mikal: sounds good to me. | 21:21 |
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| mikal | devoid: ie, you get a tempest fail if you add a storage driver which doesn't work | 21:21 |
| mikal | I don't 100% know what that looks like, but I think its a good goal | 21:21 |
| mikal | So, any other bugs we should be tracking at the moment? | 21:22 |
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| mikal | #topic Blueprints | 21:22 |
| mikal | Keystone V3 Support: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/support-keystone-v3-api | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:22 | |
| mikal | mriedem: this was you right? | 21:22 |
| mriedem | mikal: yeah | 21:23 |
| mriedem | so was wondering if anyone had heard of any progress there, | 21:23 |
| mriedem | or plans to | 21:23 |
| mriedem | there are several patches lined up behind keystone v3 support in nova | 21:23 |
| mriedem | but not really sure what that is - besides what i have linked in the agenda | 21:23 |
| mriedem | and we had this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/document-v2-to-v3-transition | 21:23 |
| jogo | mriedem: last I heard there is a keystone BP to document what is in v3 what is needed to upgrade nova etc | 21:23 |
| devoid | mikal: there's a summit meeting on the testing matrix discussion, sounds like a good place for that. | 21:23 |
| alaski | I have some work I'd like to line up behind it as well | 21:23 |
| mikal | I am sitting next to the keystone PTL this week, I could ask him for his thoughts if you'd like | 21:24 |
| jogo | mriedem: ahh yup | 21:24 |
| mriedem | someone that works more on keystone was telling me their team sounded willing to help move the code in nova for keystone v3 as long as there were nova cores they could pair up with? | 21:24 |
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| jogo | IMHO we want https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/document-v2-to-v3-transition to be done first | 21:24 |
| mriedem | jogo: yeah | 21:24 |
| mriedem | that | 21:24 |
| jogo | before anything else lands etc | 21:24 |
| mikal | That's kind of what happened with the cinder API bump, but we did a poor job of hand holding | 21:24 |
| mriedem | jogo: then probably this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/multi-keystone-api-version-tests | 21:25 |
| devoid | keystone needs a bunch of doc help, from the operator perspective | 21:25 |
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| mikal | devoid: probably true, but let's focus on nova here | 21:25 |
| jogo | mriedem: agreed | 21:25 |
| mriedem | anyway i guess we start the ball rolling with dolphm and https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/document-v2-to-v3-transition | 21:25 |
| morganfainberg | mriedem, i know dolphm said he was aiming to work on that this week | 21:26 |
| mikal | So... Is someone talking to keystone people about this alreayd? | 21:26 |
| mriedem | mikal: i'm sort of kind of trying...when i remember | 21:26 |
| mikal | Heh | 21:27 |
| mriedem | if bknudson can work on it then i can work with him | 21:27 |
| mriedem | he sits down the hall | 21:27 |
| mikal | Ok, I will ping dolphm about it over coffee tomorrow | 21:27 |
| melwitt | I was under the impression that only the clients were blocking adoption of keystone v3 api. sounds like there's more involved | 21:27 |
| mikal | But it bknudson and mriedem wanna drive it that sounds super good to me | 21:27 |
| mikal | melwitt: well, I think we're mostly asking for documentation, right | 21:27 |
| mikal | ? | 21:27 |
| morganfainberg | melwitt, it's a bit more involved making sure everything works as expected, but documentation is the first step that was agreed upon | 21:28 |
| bknudson | we discussed assigning a keystone core member to each proj to help with the transition | 21:28 |
| mikal | #action mikal to ping dolphm about keystone v2 to v3 transition (documentation, who will do the nova work) | 21:28 |
| morganfainberg | melwitt, and the clients are a bit part of it. | 21:28 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 21:28 |
| melwitt | mikal, morganfainberg: understood | 21:28 |
| mikal | Any other blueprints we should be talking about? I suspect most are blocked on the summit? | 21:28 |
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| johnthetubaguy | everyone OK with the new process? | 21:29 |
| jogo | I have some concerns actually | 21:29 |
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| mriedem | is nova-specs stagnating? | 21:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | jogo: do fire away | 21:29 |
| mikal | jogo: do tell | 21:29 |
| jogo | mainly I think this new process may result in a dramatic cut in the number of BPs we can approve | 21:30 |
| dansmith | that's good, IMHO | 21:30 |
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| jogo | icehouse had 67 BPs implimented https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/icehouse | 21:30 |
| mikal | I don't want to see process for process' sake | 21:30 |
| mikal | But I do think we're coming up with better thought through designs now | 21:30 |
| jogo | I think the new process is really good and not for processes' sake too though | 21:30 |
| leifz | 23 approved right now? | 21:31 |
| jogo | just think we need more eyes on the nova-specs patches | 21:31 |
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| melwitt | so far I've liked the process in that it makes it easy to find which bps need to be reviewed and more easily discuss | 21:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | jogo: we do need care, get too picky and we block the good stuff, I agree | 21:31 |
| mikal | True | 21:31 |
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| dansmith | I also think that we're reflecting code review likelihood through spec review reality, which is better than approving something and never reviewing the code out of lack of interest | 21:31 |
| jogo | hmm we did approve 24 so far | 21:31 |
| jogo | so I may be wrong about this | 21:31 |
| leifz | sorry, yesterday's fetch plus my submission. | 21:32 |
| mikal | It will be interesting to see if this means we have a higher hit rate with bp implementations actually merging | 21:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I been surprised, it feels slow, but we don't seem too bad so far. | 21:32 |
| jogo | mikal: yeah | 21:32 |
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| leifz | jogo: I share your concern. | 21:32 |
| mikal | So, a lot are under discussion next week as well | 21:32 |
| jogo | so I we have sped up the rate of approval a bit | 21:32 |
| jogo | since I last looked | 21:32 |
| mikal | So let's not panic yet, just be conscious it is a lot more work for proposers | 21:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | its not like I am doing too much other than spec reviews these days, or it feels that way, but we need to make sure it increases "good" productivity, which it looks like it could | 21:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I kinda think everyone is hitting the template learning curve at once | 21:33 |
| leifz | I'd also be curious to track the amount of devops feedback we get. | 21:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | which will hopefully get better too | 21:33 |
| mikal | I certainly think it will drive better test coverage and more thought on operational impact | 21:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | (reviews and writers) | 21:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | mikal: +1 | 21:33 |
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| jogo | so I guess my main concern is: we need more eyes on the BPs | 21:33 |
| mikal | leifz: HP and Rackspace both have people actively looking | 21:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | I like how open the review process is now | 21:33 |
| mikal | leifz: I'd like to see a more diverse set of ops though | 21:33 |
| jogo | to help keep the review queue moving | 21:33 |
| annegentle | from a docs team perspective it's hard to keep up :) But we need to be. | 21:33 |
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| yjiang5 | jogo: possible the spec should have higher review priority than code review? | 21:34 |
| leifz | mikal: people are looking, but how is that translating for coverage? | 21:34 |
| mikal | leifz: define coverage in this context? | 21:34 |
| leifz | mikal: if main purpose is to get feedback early on, it would be good to see that across the board. | 21:35 |
| leifz | mikal: if that is happening great, but hard to tell from my perspective. | 21:35 |
| mikal | So, people are definitely getting feedback, that's why it feels slow | 21:35 |
| mikal | If we were rubber stamping, everything would be approved | 21:35 |
| mikal | We're getting more ops feedback, but not as much a I'd like | 21:35 |
| * jaypipes agrees with dansmith that fewer approved blueprint specs is actually a good thing... | 21:35 | |
| devoid | There may also be a context issue here. I feel like a lot of the spec reviews are for nits, but few are for overall concept criticism. | 21:35 |
| dansmith | the nits are important since they're effectively docs, | 21:36 |
| jogo | anyway looks https://review.openstack.org/#/q/is:open+project:openstack/nova-specs++label:Code-Review%253D0,p,002ccc2900015196 | 21:36 |
| devoid | Which is ok because you are trying to be positive. But bad because then you get to patch set 10 before the real critics come out. | 21:36 |
| jogo | BPs without any reviews | 21:36 |
| dansmith | but I don't think I see people holding back on criticizing the actual content when appropriate | 21:36 |
| dansmith | devoid: if I get to a spec that is nearly unreadable because of formatting and spelling errors, I'm inclined to ask for it to be cleaned up before I try to grok it | 21:37 |
| sdague | devoid: any idea if that's across the board, or for things that people already were generally agreed on, and they are just coming to this process the first time? | 21:37 |
| * jaypipes has been trying to keep up with reviews on nova-specs... but they do take a significant chunks of time. | 21:37 | |
| dansmith | and I think that's reasonable | 21:37 |
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| jogo | better link: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/is:open+project:openstack/nova-specs++label:Code-Review%253D0++label:Workflow%253D0,n,z' | 21:37 |
| jogo | better link: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/is:open+project:openstack/nova-specs++label:Code-Review%253D0++label:Workflow%253D0,n,z | 21:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | jaypipes: +1 | 21:37 |
| devoid | sdauge: I'm not completely plugged into nova dev so I can't say. | 21:37 |
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| mikal | Ok, so this is new. I agree we're not keeping up with specs reviews perfectly, but its also not really terrible. | 21:38 |
| devoid | dansmith: I agree. | 21:38 |
| mikal | So, I think this is mostly a "don't forget to take a look at specs" | 21:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | just wanted to confirm... we are approving specs, but then not approving the blueprint till we actually see code go up, at least thats what I am telling people | 21:38 |
| jogo | mikal: yup | 21:38 |
| dansmith | johnthetubaguy: yeah | 21:38 |
| dansmith | johnthetubaguy: important distinction :) | 21:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | dansmith: yeah, it seems to be working well | 21:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | so far | 21:39 |
| mikal | I feel like we should move on unless there's anything else urgent here | 21:39 |
| jaypipes | mikal: just a suggestion, but perhaps we relax the defacto policy of discouraging folks from asking for reviews on the ML -- but only for nova-specs? | 21:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | mikal: +1 just wanted to make sure people could vent :) | 21:39 |
| sdague | jogo: even better link - https://review.openstack.org/#/q/is:open+project:openstack/nova-specs++label:Code-Review%253D0%252Cself+label:Workflow%253D0,n,z | 21:39 |
| dansmith | jaypipes: why? | 21:39 |
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| mikal | jaypipes: what about an etherpad people could highlight things to review in? | 21:39 |
| dansmith | jaypipes: no -1 votes means "please look at my spec" .. why do we need email spam? | 21:39 |
| mikal | jaypipes: less noise on list, but people feel like they're on people's radars | 21:39 |
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| devoid | jaypipes, but how are you supposed to get feedback on your spec? | 21:40 |
| jaypipes | dansmith: just thinking that if we want to encourage operators to weigh in, their natural instinct isn't to follow a Gerrit view. | 21:40 |
| mikal | Oh, I see | 21:40 |
| devoid | jaypipes, got it. | 21:40 |
| mikal | jaypipes: pointing out interesting specs on the _operators_ list is a good idea | 21:40 |
| mikal | jaypipes: although I think we need to be careful about the noise level | 21:41 |
| mriedem | jaypipes: mikal: that's why i sent an email to the operators list about some gridlock on my spec | 21:41 |
| dansmith | oh, sure, the rule is only for -dev afaik | 21:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that sounds like a cunning plan | 21:41 |
| mikal | mriedem has already done one | 21:41 |
| devoid | +1 to pointing out useful specs to operators. | 21:41 |
| mikal | Yeah, let's just not send five a day | 21:41 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: yeah, for a number of specs I've specifically sent emails to some operators to weigh in... | 21:41 |
| mikal | #action remember to send interesting specs to the operators list | 21:41 |
| devoid | operators could use more traffic frankly :-) | 21:41 |
| sdague | devoid: yeh, the operators list is kind of a quiet corner | 21:41 |
| mikal | Ok, let's move on unless you guys want to mutinty really badly | 21:42 |
| jaypipes | #action jaypipes make a weekly post to operators list with top 5 or 10 specs for operator input... | 21:42 |
| mikal | #topic Open Discussion | 21:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:42 | |
| mikal | devoid: you had something for here? | 21:42 |
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| mriedem | i think devoid had a blueprint item for his sheepdog image backend bp | 21:42 |
| devoid | mikal, yes wanted someone to look at my bp | 21:42 |
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| devoid | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82584/ | 21:43 |
| mikal | Ahhh, ok. As in it needs someone to read it? | 21:43 |
| devoid | yes plz | 21:43 |
| mikal | I'll take a look, but probably not until tomorrow | 21:43 |
| mikal | #action Someone needs to take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82584/ | 21:43 |
| devoid | also looking for a libvirt dev to help understand the image and disk management code during the summit. | 21:43 |
| mikal | I think the dev lounge pod is the way to go there | 21:43 |
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| devoid | cool | 21:44 |
| mriedem | corner padraig if he's there | 21:44 |
| mikal | But perhaps we can also find someone who can do some mentoring? | 21:44 |
| devoid | i will hold a sign that says "halp, libvirt questions" | 21:44 |
| mikal | LOL | 21:44 |
| mikal | OMG, yes | 21:44 |
| jaypipes | hehe | 21:44 |
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| mikal | Or a tshirt | 21:44 |
| yjiang5 | I remember if a patch get no review for a long time, it's ok to asking for review on IRC, but what's acceptable time? | 21:44 |
| mikal | I think bribes do work... Just sayin' | 21:45 |
| sdague | mikal: moar hoodies | 21:45 |
| devoid | mikal, I have openstack troll t-shirts coming. ;-) | 21:45 |
| mikal | yjiang5: it might be a good idea to git blame the files you're touching and then see what sort of times those people hang around on IRC? | 21:45 |
| mikal | I don't tend to answer pings at 3am for instance, it makes my wife angry | 21:45 |
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| jaypipes | yjiang5: no definite answer on that... maybe a couple days? also, sometimes it's easier to just approach folks with a specific question about a comment they had on a review to gently nudge someone to take another look at it :) | 21:46 |
| yjiang5 | mikal: I mean how long after the patch get no review, we can ask for review in the IRC? | 21:46 |
| yjiang5 | mikal: sorry not clearly expressed. | 21:46 |
| mikal | yjiang5: that's hard... if everyone did that for a patch which had been ignored for a few days, we'd flood IRC | 21:46 |
| mikal | yjiang5: I think it depends on the severity of the bug being fixed | 21:46 |
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| jaypipes | mikal: yes, agreed. | 21:47 |
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| yjiang5 | mikal: Just some clean up patch. Not sure it's ok for patch submitted in Jan, 2014. | 21:47 |
| mikal | yjiang5: well, there's lots of people around now, so why not drop it in openstack-nova now? | 21:47 |
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| mikal | yjiang5: i.e. this time of day might be a good time | 21:48 |
| yjiang5 | mikal: cool, thanks. | 21:48 |
| mikal | Anything else? Or do people want 12 minutes of their lives back? | 21:48 |
| mriedem | mid cycle meetup | 21:48 |
| mriedem | any news there? | 21:48 |
| mikal | Oh yes | 21:48 |
| mriedem | dates/locations | 21:48 |
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| mikal | So... I only got the release dates a day ago | 21:48 |
| jogo | Hawaii! | 21:48 |
| tjones | bora bora | 21:49 |
| mikal | I'm going to try and come up with a plan for that tomorrow, because I want to be able to discuss it at the summit | 21:49 |
| sdague | yjiang5: also, it's helpful if the bugs these are listed against actually have a priority. I find a lot of the wayward reviews link to a bug in Undefined priority state | 21:49 |
| mikal | #action mikal to come up with a mid cycle meetup plan | 21:49 |
| oomichi | Hawaii: +1 | 21:49 |
| yjiang5 | sdague: thanks. | 21:49 |
| mikal | I'd love Hawaii, but we have no offers to host there | 21:49 |
| leifz | I'm up for maui. | 21:49 |
| mikal | To set expectations, I think its likely to be mid to late July | 21:49 |
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| tjones | then how about alaska | 21:50 |
| mikal | Almost certainly in the continental US | 21:50 |
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| tjones | seattle :-) | 21:50 |
| mikal | We need to find a good openstack host company in either of those locations | 21:50 |
| yjiang5 | tjones: +1 | 21:50 |
| mikal | But yes, I haven't forgotten the mid cycle meetup | 21:50 |
| mikal | I've just lacked needed information | 21:50 |
| mikal | Anything else? | 21:50 |
| dansmith | I think redhat offered raleigh | 21:51 |
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| mikal | Yeah, there's been about five location offers IIRC | 21:51 |
| mriedem | and i'm trying to get an offer for MN | 21:51 |
| mikal | We'll need to come up with an equitable method to pick one | 21:51 |
| dansmith | I'd be up for MN | 21:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | a vote? | 21:51 |
| mriedem | new review process | 21:51 |
| mriedem | :) | 21:51 |
| dansmith | so, one thing, | 21:51 |
| jaypipes | tjones: I think alaski would like alaska. | 21:51 |
| mikal | Yeah, probably a vote and then a waitlist for people who miss out | 21:51 |
| dansmith | UT was annoying because of distance from the airport, | 21:51 |
| alaski | jaypipes: +1 :) | 21:52 |
| dansmith | so it'd be nice to only consider ones that are reasonably close I think | 21:52 |
| tjones | jaypipes: lol | 21:52 |
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| mriedem | MN would be rochester, but there is an airport | 21:52 |
| mikal | dansmith: yeah, with good bandwidth and reasonable hotel pricing | 21:52 |
| mriedem | connects from minneapolis | 21:52 |
| dansmith | yeah | 21:52 |
| mikal | dansmith: so probably not Manhattan | 21:52 |
| jaypipes | heh | 21:52 |
| dansmith | mriedem: so that means three hops for some people, right? | 21:52 |
| mriedem | we have hotels coming out of our ass here with the clinic | 21:52 |
| mriedem | dansmith: depends | 21:52 |
| mriedem | there are some direct flights | 21:52 |
| mikal | mriedem: direct from Canberra? | 21:52 |
| mikal | :P | 21:52 |
| dansmith | mriedem: if I have to go to SFO, then MSP, then rochester, I'm going to be annoyed | 21:53 |
| sdague | mikal: fwiw, montreal actually worked out really nicely for the neutron / qa meeting. | 21:53 |
| mriedem | sure.. | 21:53 |
| tjones | palo alot is right by SFO :-) | 21:53 |
| dansmith | montreal would be good | 21:53 |
| tjones | s/alot/alto | 21:53 |
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| mriedem | i'm not sure i'm legally allowed in canada... | 21:53 |
| sdague | which isn't continental US, but almost is. And made it simpler for some non US people due to visa issues with US | 21:53 |
| mikal | No one has offered a Canadian venue IIRC | 21:53 |
| leifz | mikal: give yourself an action to pick a location where dansmith has a nonstop flight. | 21:53 |
| dansmith | tjones: burgers in palo alto are what, $15 each? | 21:53 |
| beagles | I would suggest St. John's, but people may not want to leave | 21:53 |
| mikal | dansmith: hotels are expensive | 21:53 |
| beagles | (or be able to) | 21:53 |
| dansmith | leifz: nonstop not necessary, but three hops are not in favor :) | 21:53 |
| mikal | dansmith: but I do like that area... I used to live there | 21:54 |
| tjones | dansmith: depends - you can get even more expensive if you want | 21:54 |
| sdague | mikal: when we did it there, it was done on mcgill campus, anteaya has details if you like | 21:54 |
| leifz | dansmith: we can't have you grumpy. | 21:54 |
| mikal | Ok, so... All points noted. I will come up with a location that makes you all equally unhappy. | 21:54 |
| melwitt | haha | 21:54 |
| tjones | mikal: awesome! | 21:54 |
| dansmith | leifz: I thought you know, I'm never not grumpy | 21:54 |
| mikal | Somewhere in New Zealand perhaps | 21:54 |
| leifz | dansmith: I do. I'm talking about the worse grumpy. | 21:54 |
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| mikal | Stabby grumpy | 21:54 |
| dansmith | leifz: oh, fair | 21:54 |
| tjones | NZ - that would be great! | 21:54 |
| mikal | Ok... So nothing else important right? Just complaining about not having the meetup at Yosemite? | 21:55 |
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| oomichi | may I ask some feedback about v2.1/v3 API on http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-May/034117.html ? | 21:55 |
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| mikal | oomichi: I think people are waiting for the summit session on that? | 21:56 |
| dansmith | yep | 21:56 |
| oomichi | ok, I got it:) | 21:56 |
| mikal | oomichi: thanks for your patience | 21:56 |
| jaypipes | oomichi: actually, the API meeting is in a couple hours... | 21:56 |
| tjones | spawn refactor is always happy to have reviews :-) | 21:56 |
| jaypipes | oomichi: and it's on the agenda, IIRC | 21:56 |
| tjones | (had to sneak that in) | 21:57 |
| dansmith | okay, tjones is begging, time to end | 21:57 |
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| mikal | tjones: yeah, I was looking at the first one of those... 60 revisions! | 21:57 |
| tjones | mikal: :-( | 21:57 |
| mikal | Ok, meeting done I think | 21:57 |
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| mikal | #topic Conclusion | 21:57 |
| mikal | This is my first time running one of these, so please email me any feedback if you think I can improve… | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Conclusion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:57 | |
| mikal | #endmeeting | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 8 21:57:39 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-05-08-21.01.html | 21:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-05-08-21.01.txt | 21:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-05-08-21.01.log.html | 21:57 |
| mikal | Thanks everyone | 21:58 |
| leifz | off-record tjones: takes leifz spot for overkill. | 21:58 |
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| tjones | leifz: :-D | 21:58 |
| dpaterson | Hi all, is there audio for this meeting? first timer. | 21:59 |
| dansmith | dpaterson: no | 21:59 |
| dansmith | dpaterson: what you saw is all there is | 21:59 |
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| dpaterson | Okay. I have submitted a blueprint and spec that needs review. | 21:59 |
| dpaterson | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/post-run-cleanup | 22:00 |
| dpaterson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91777/ | 22:00 |
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| dansmith | dpaterson: the meeting is over, it was the nova meeting, and that's a tempest spec | 22:00 |
| dansmith | dpaterson: I recommend you try #openstack-qa :) | 22:00 |
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| dpaterson | Terribly sorry I was given this room for this time. | 22:00 |
| sdague | dpaterson: it's should be starting nowish | 22:01 |
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| sdague | though we seem to be missing dkranz who said he was going to run it | 22:01 |
| dpaterson | Yes that is who I am looking for | 22:01 |
| sdague | who else is around for qa meeting? | 22:01 |
| masayukig | hi | 22:02 |
| sdague | #startmeeting qa | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 8 22:02:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| oomichi | hi | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 22:02 |
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| sdague | there's dkranz | 22:02 |
| dkranz | Who is here today? | 22:02 |
| adam_g | o/ | 22:02 |
| masayukig | o/ | 22:02 |
| dpaterson | David Paterson | 22:02 |
| andreaf_ | o/ | 22:03 |
| sdague | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting#Proposed_Agenda_for_May_8_2014_.282200_UTC.29 | 22:03 |
| sdague | dkranz: I just kicked it, but feel free to run it now | 22:03 |
| mlavalle | dkranz: I am supporting a desployment to one of the data centes at work. Can I give the Neutron update at the start of the meeting, so I can concentrate at work after that? | 22:03 |
| dkranz | sdague: There was something wrong with my connection | 22:03 |
| dkranz | mlavalle: Yes, go ahead | 22:03 |
| sdague | #topic Neutron Testing | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron Testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:03 | |
| sdague | go mlavalle | 22:04 |
| mlavalle | Of 28 api tests that we are tracking, we h only have 5 more to merge | 22:04 |
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| mlavalle | the rest have merged, so very good progress on that front | 22:04 |
| sdague | nice | 22:05 |
| mlavalle | I would like the core team to help us reviewing the following 3, to see if we can merge them soon: | 22:05 |
| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83627/ | 22:05 |
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| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/67312 | 22:05 |
| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/63723 | 22:06 |
| sdague | sounds great | 22:06 |
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| mlavalle | we also have 20 minutes of tempest on the Neutron agenda next Thursday at 9 am in the design summit | 22:06 |
| sdague | #action core review eyes needed on 3 neutron reviews | 22:06 |
| mlavalle | this is the etherpad that I put togeteher | 22:07 |
| mlavalle | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TempestAndNeutronJuno | 22:07 |
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| mlavalle | In principle, during Juno we will be pursuing four lines of actions | 22:07 |
| mlavalle | 1) increase the number of scenario tests | 22:07 |
| mlavalle | 2) fill any gaps that might have been left in api tests | 22:08 |
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| mlavalle | 3) support the nova parity subproject | 22:08 |
| mlavalle | 4) support other suprojects | 22:08 |
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| mlavalle | please feel free to review the etherpad and add to it | 22:08 |
| sdague | sounds good | 22:08 |
| sdague | mlavalle: anything else? | 22:08 |
| mlavalle | that's all I have | 22:09 |
| mlavalle | thanks | 22:09 |
| sdague | great | 22:09 |
| mlavalle | I'll be watching the rest of the meeting, but I might have to drop off | 22:09 |
| sdague | ok, back to agenda as it's ordered | 22:09 |
| sdague | #topic Reminder about summit etherpads | 22:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder about summit etherpads (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:09 | |
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| sdague | The list of etherpads is here - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting | 22:09 |
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| sdague | not all have been created yet | 22:09 |
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| sdague | chmouel's UX one is missing | 22:10 |
| sdague | boris-42's rally one is missing | 22:10 |
| masayukig | maybe https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#QA ? | 22:10 |
| andreaf_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Juno-QA-design-summit-topics | 22:10 |
| boris-42 | sdague ? | 22:10 |
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| sdague | and maru_afk's functional test one is missing | 22:11 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: Please run the meeting. I keep flaking in and out. | 22:11 |
| sdague | boris-42: etherpad for rally / tempest summit session hasn't been stubbed yet | 22:11 |
| sdague | masayukig: yes | 22:11 |
| boris-42 | sdague when is deadline? | 22:11 |
| sdague | sooner the better | 22:12 |
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| boris-42 | sdague ok will do (just finished slides) | 22:12 |
| sdague | so people can look and provide feedback pre summit | 22:12 |
| sdague | boris-42: there shouldn't be slides for a design summit session | 22:12 |
| boris-42 | sdague just small intro | 22:12 |
| boris-42 | sdague i think it's simpler to start from intro no? | 22:13 |
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| sdague | if you want to link some slides in the etherpad for people to read in advance, that's cool, but there shouldn't be slides in the session | 22:13 |
| sdague | that's not what the session is there for | 22:13 |
| boris-42 | sdague okay I'll just left slides | 22:13 |
| boris-42 | sdague cause I think intro is required | 22:13 |
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| sdague | it's probably worth putting those out on the list in advance as well, just to further highlight them | 22:14 |
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| dkranz_ | boris-42: Yes, please send intro to the list | 22:14 |
| sdague | I'm going to spend lots of time tomorrow filling out my etherpad | 22:15 |
| boris-42 | hehe me too | 22:15 |
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| boris-42 | sdague i know it's not super related to the rally & tempest integration | 22:15 |
| sdague | ok. Reminder to everyone else to handle etherpads for the summit | 22:15 |
| boris-42 | sdague but I would like to speak about osprofiler & tempest integration | 22:15 |
| boris-42 | sdague is it ok? | 22:16 |
| sdague | boris-42: I'd say try to keep this narrow to begin with, and if there is more time get there | 22:16 |
| sdague | but 40 minutes goes fast | 22:16 |
| boris-42 | sdague okay it will be last topic | 22:16 |
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| boris-42 | latest* | 22:16 |
| sdague | and I think we've got some issues on time accounting that we need to make sure we sort out | 22:16 |
| sdague | ok, next topic | 22:17 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: We should move on | 22:17 |
| sdague | #topic Proposal to move success response checking to clients (dkranz) | 22:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposal to move success response checking to clients (dkranz) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:17 | |
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| sdague | dkranz_: you have the floor | 22:17 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: I just wanted to see if any one objected to this proposal that was discussed on the ml | 22:17 |
| dkranz_ | or if there were any other comments | 22:17 |
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| sdague | I think it was generally agreed. I think it's worth writing up as a qa-spec, and we can approve it through that mechanism | 22:18 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: I don't really see any downside | 22:18 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: ok, I will do that. | 22:18 |
| sdague | seems big enough to be a spec/blueprint | 22:18 |
| sdague | vs. just a bug | 22:18 |
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| dkranz_ | #action dkranz to create spec for moving response checking to clients | 22:18 |
| sdague | I think the only details are around multiple allowed success codes | 22:19 |
| sdague | so make sure to call that out | 22:19 |
| sdague | just so we get that right | 22:19 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: Right. I wonder how many there actually are. | 22:19 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: Not counting those that say any 2xx is ok | 22:19 |
| dkranz_ | That's it | 22:19 |
| sdague | cool | 22:20 |
| sdague | next topic | 22:20 |
| sdague | #topic Can we turn on voting of ironic jobs (recent creds change broke it)? (adam_g) | 22:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Can we turn on voting of ironic jobs (recent creds change broke it)? (adam_g) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:20 | |
| dkranz_ | adam_g: That's you | 22:20 |
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| adam_g | context: some refactoring merged recently that broke some of the non-voting jobs | 22:21 |
| adam_g | ironic, and i believe solum | 22:21 |
| adam_g | i dont think we can really make these voting until the projects have graduated | 22:21 |
| andreaf_ | adam_g: there's no solum job on tempest I think | 22:21 |
| adam_g | andreaf_, oh, maybe not a job in the gate but some of the solum tests (at least reported by devkulkarni earlier) | 22:22 |
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| sdague | solum is running a ton of out of tree stuff though, so I consider that a different issue | 22:22 |
| adam_g | we'll be making these ironic jobs voting in the ironic gate soon, not sure how to prevent this from happening other than urging people to pay attention to non-voting jobs | 22:23 |
| adam_g | and /me being more proactive about catching failures during review :) | 22:23 |
| sdague | adam_g: I think with the # of jobs on a tempest run now, seeing the non voting votes is going to get harder over time | 22:23 |
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| dkranz_ | adam_g: I suggest sending a ml message saying that ironic is not gating only because of incubation but is solid. | 22:24 |
| sdague | any idea if there is a gerrit query that would return those changes? | 22:24 |
| andreaf_ | adam_g, sdague: yes it's getting harder, and gate is not very stable (voting and not voting) so it's even harder | 22:24 |
| andreaf_ | dkranz_: +1 sounds good | 22:24 |
| adam_g | i just threw up http://no-carrier.net/~adam/openstack/ironic_gate_status.html to help me monitor failures | 22:24 |
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| adam_g | s/threw up/put up :) | 22:25 |
| sdague | heh | 22:25 |
| sdague | it's funnier the first way | 22:25 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: Because we have non-voting jobs that have been downgraded due to failures and others that are solid but waiting to get in for other reasons | 22:25 |
| dkranz_ | Reviewers just need to know which is which | 22:25 |
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| andreaf_ | dkranz_, sdague, adam_g: sortng the jobs and splitting them in sections would help already | 22:26 |
| andreaf_ | dkranz_, sdague, adam_g: but even nicer would be to get some stability stat next to the failing job | 22:26 |
| adam_g | i'd be cool if there were a way to categorize both using notes in jenkins comments, based on pass/failure ratio over the last N days/weeks | 22:27 |
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| sdague | andreaf_: sure, that's in my elastic recheck set of futurues to give us that | 22:27 |
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| andreaf_ | or some check that identified new test failures in an unstable job | 22:27 |
| sdague | ok, this is turning more into brainstorm though, so I think we should table to beers somewhere at summit | 22:27 |
| sdague | is there something actionable beyond sending a heads up to the list? | 22:28 |
| adam_g | +1, tho i wont be there so someone will need to drink mine | 22:28 |
| dkranz_ | Really we just need a third tag which says "non-voting but look at a failure before approving" | 22:28 |
| sdague | adam_g: bummer | 22:28 |
| sdague | dkranz_: so realistically that feels to me like a "jenkins 2nd vote" | 22:28 |
| sdague | which we'd need a bunch of infra buy in and refactor on | 22:28 |
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| sdague | but is kind of interesting | 22:28 |
| andreaf_ | sdague: is there a place where we can track such "additional topics to chat about at summit"? | 22:29 |
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| dkranz_ | sdague: I don't know how much real work should be done here vs just living with it | 22:29 |
| sdague | andreaf_: not atm, you have a suggestion? | 22:29 |
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| sdague | I just assume it will come up over coffee / food / beer all week, and my brain will end up full at the end of it | 22:29 |
| andreaf_ | sdague: perhaps another etherpad | 22:29 |
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| sdague | dkranz_: agreed, lets move on | 22:30 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: At past summits we have had "qa meetings" | 22:30 |
| sdague | dkranz_: well, usually a lunch somewhere | 22:30 |
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| dkranz_ | sdague: that too | 22:30 |
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| sdague | #topic Specs Review | 22:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs Review (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:30 | |
| sdague | ok, time for specs that people want to talk about, and get eyes on | 22:31 |
| andreaf_ | ok | 22:31 |
| sdague | dpaterson: I believe that includes you, right? | 22:31 |
| andreaf_ | dpaterson: go first | 22:31 |
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| andreaf_ | or I'll start | 22:31 |
| andreaf_ | https://review.openstack.org/81294 | 22:31 |
| andreaf_ | multiauth bp, I think it's ready all comments addressed | 22:32 |
| andreaf_ | and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81307/ keystone v3 jobs also all comments addressed | 22:32 |
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| sdague | andreaf_: this looks pretty good | 22:32 |
| andreaf_ | and I filed a new one today about client manager refactor https://review.openstack.org/92804 for which I'd love some feedback | 22:32 |
| sdague | I'm good on 81294 | 22:33 |
| sdague | I'll look at 81307 in the morning | 22:33 |
| sdague | andreaf_: any specific items you want to bring up about them? | 22:33 |
| sdague | or just getting people to look? | 22:34 |
| andreaf_ | the latter | 22:34 |
| sdague | #action qa-specs that are probably ready for final approval https://review.openstack.org/81294, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81307/ | 22:34 |
| dkranz_ | andreaf_: I already gave my +2 to 81294 and mtreinish just -1 for syntax issue | 22:35 |
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| sdague | #action qa-spec on client manager refactor needs review https://review.openstack.org/92804 | 22:35 |
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| dkranz_ | dpaterson: You there? | 22:35 |
| sdague | mtreinish should be working tomorrow | 22:35 |
| andreaf_ | dkranz_: yes I fixed the issue | 22:35 |
| dpaterson | yup | 22:35 |
| dpaterson | Sorry stepped away for a sec | 22:35 |
| dkranz_ | dpaterson: You can discuss your spec | 22:35 |
| sdague | so dkranz_ +2 if you think it still holds and we can nudge him tomorrow for landing | 22:35 |
| dpaterson | Sure | 22:36 |
| dpaterson | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/post-run-cleanup | 22:36 |
| dpaterson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91777/ | 22:36 |
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| sdague | dpaterson: so there is a clerical issue here where the patches need to be merged | 22:36 |
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| dkranz_ | dpaterson: You should abandon the old patch and resubmit the new one with no dependency | 22:36 |
| dpaterson | Basically I have been working with some QA folks on testing a HA configuration and running into issues with Temepst cleanup | 22:36 |
| dpaterson | dkranz: will look into the problem | 22:37 |
| sdague | dpaterson: one of the concerns I have about this approach is it papers over state corruption issues in the services by just having Tempest clean things up | 22:37 |
| sdague | I'd much rather get the base services fixed to not be in an inconsistent state | 22:38 |
| dpaterson | I agree | 22:38 |
| sdague | also, we really *can't* access the db directly from tempest | 22:38 |
| sdague | for both design reasons | 22:38 |
| sdague | and practical reasons | 22:38 |
| dpaterson | but before that happens I would like to have a tool to unblock my guys | 22:38 |
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| dkranz_ | sdague: I think he is proposing a script, not having tempest do it automatically | 22:39 |
| sdague | oh, ok, yeh I see that now | 22:39 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: There is already a script in the stress dir but it does not do what is needed. | 22:39 |
| dpaterson | My proposal is just python, not dep on tempest. | 22:39 |
| sdague | dpaterson: ok sure | 22:39 |
| dkranz_ | dpaterson: My concern is with the database cleanup part | 22:39 |
| dpaterson | Yes | 22:40 |
| sdague | on the db cleanup part, the issue we had before when we had whitebox testing was the schemas change a lot in a release | 22:40 |
| sdague | so it's basically always breaking | 22:40 |
| dkranz_ | dpaterson: Any such database cleanup will be very fragile | 22:40 |
| sdague | like *always* | 22:40 |
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| dpaterson | I am open to alternatives but currently they are getting into a state where API calls cannot remove objects. | 22:40 |
| dpaterson | So somekind of surgery is going to be required | 22:40 |
| dkranz_ | dpaterson: I don't doubt that but I'm not sure tempest is the right place for that | 22:41 |
| sdague | dpaterson: sure, so lets get the blueprint cleaned up so it's passing the docs job just to look at it. | 22:41 |
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| dkranz_ | dpaterson: Stuff in tempest has to be kept working | 22:41 |
| dkranz_ | dpaterson: And that is hard with code that only runs when things get seriously messed up | 22:41 |
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| sdague | I'd be worth trying it, if we also required that any cleanup function needed an upstream bug before it could come in so that we'd actually work towards addressing root issues | 22:42 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: works for me | 22:42 |
| dpaterson | It would only execute if cleanup is flagged to do so | 22:42 |
| sdague | but we should also be very aware this is probably going to be very fragile | 22:42 |
| dpaterson | agreed | 22:42 |
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| sdague | dpaterson: I also don't think it should be triggered by tempest. It would just be a helper tool that we keep around that people could run manually if they like | 22:43 |
| dpaterson | it is | 22:43 |
| dkranz_ | +1 | 22:43 |
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| sdague | dpaterson: ok, so if you can respin the spec, will take a look | 22:43 |
| sdague | are you going to be in atlanta? | 22:43 |
| dkranz_ | dpaterson: It is useful because not every one has to figure out the weird db calls | 22:43 |
| dpaterson | Sorry not this time, | 22:44 |
| sdague | I expect the review queues are going to go really quiet next week regardless | 22:44 |
| sdague | so it might not be till the week after that people get real eyes on this | 22:44 |
| oomichi | dpaterson: interesting. In the HA testing, tempest will stop openstack for checking right switching? | 22:44 |
| dkranz_ | oomichi: Not sure what you mean | 22:45 |
| dpaterson | I don't quite understand oomichi, | 22:45 |
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| oomichi | dpaterson: HA switchs active / standby controller-node as I understand. | 22:46 |
| dpaterson | Tempest doesn't do any switches. The idea is tempest is run and we get a report | 22:46 |
| dkranz_ | oomichi: I don't think tempest would know anything about ha, right? | 22:46 |
| dpaterson | Then clean the system up | 22:46 |
| dpaterson | Take down a controller or introduce some other failure | 22:47 |
| dpaterson | and rerun tempest | 22:47 |
| oomichi | dpaterson: oh, I see. thanks | 22:47 |
| dpaterson | Should get same test report | 22:47 |
| sdague | ok, great, dpaterson you need anything else on this? | 22:47 |
| dpaterson | nope, thanks | 22:47 |
| sdague | ok, great | 22:48 |
| sdague | #topic Blueprints | 22:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:48 | |
| dpaterson | tx | 22:48 |
| sdague | any in process blueprints people want to bring up? | 22:48 |
| sdague | I'm assuming most people are prepping for summit | 22:49 |
| andreaf_ | sdague: Just mentioning that we made some good progress on the multi-auth bp with lots of reviews | 22:49 |
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| sdague | given that we only have 10 minutes left, lets jump to critical reviews | 22:49 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: Just that https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91899/ is waiting for final approval | 22:49 |
| sdague | #topic Critical Reviews | 22:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:49 | |
| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92573/ - connection verification as part of RemoteClient init | 22:49 |
| sdague | that was put in the agenda | 22:49 |
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| sdague | dkranz_: +A | 22:50 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: I think yfried is trying to debug some ssh issues we have seen | 22:50 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: thanks | 22:50 |
| sdague | I'll plug the test and worker summary patch - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92362/ | 22:50 |
| sdague | as we lost test summary with the new subunit trace | 22:51 |
| sdague | that will also let us see worker balance in jobs | 22:51 |
| sdague | which is kind of useful | 22:51 |
| sdague | andreaf_: what's the next patch needed for review in the multi-auth stack? | 22:51 |
| sdague | any other critical reviews people need eyes on? | 22:52 |
| andreaf_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80246/ | 22:52 |
| sdague | #topic Open Discussion | 22:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:52 | |
| andreaf_ | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-summit-open-topics | 22:52 |
| sdague | ok, let's do open discussion | 22:52 |
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| sdague | andreaf_: I like that 80246 is negative LOC :) | 22:52 |
| andreaf_ | sdague: just an etherpad for people to put additional ideas we can discuss at lunch or beer | 22:52 |
| andreaf_ | sdague: :D | 22:53 |
| sdague | andreaf_: great, want to also send that to the mailing list | 22:53 |
| andreaf_ | sdague: ok will do | 22:53 |
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| sdague | anything else from folks? | 22:53 |
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| sdague | when are folks getting to atlanta? | 22:54 |
| andreaf_ | 7pm on Sunday | 22:54 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: Sorry I will miss the dinner. Don't arrive until 8pm | 22:54 |
| oomichi | 15:30 Sunday | 22:54 |
| sdague | I will also miss the dinner, as I've got the TC / board thing that night | 22:54 |
| sdague | but my evening schedule is always nuts | 22:54 |
| dkranz_ | sdague: Maybe we should have a lunch table on Monday | 22:54 |
| dkranz_ | Anyway, should be a busy week :) | 22:55 |
| sdague | yes, it should be. | 22:55 |
| sdague | I'm getting in Sat because of board things on Sun, so if anyone happens to be around Sat let me know. | 22:55 |
| sdague | ok, I think that's a wrap folks. See you in ATL | 22:56 |
| sdague | and there won't be a meeting next week, because of the summit, so see folks back here in 2 | 22:56 |
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| sdague | #endmeeting | 22:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 8 22:56:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-05-08-22.02.html | 22:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-05-08-22.02.txt | 22:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-05-08-22.02.log.html | 22:56 |
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| oomichi | see you in the summit :-) | 22:57 |
| andreaf_ | see you | 22:57 |
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| masayukig | yeah, see you | 22:57 |
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