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| mestery | Hi folks | 13:59 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking_ml2 | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 30 14:00:10 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_ml2' | 14:00 |
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| rkukura | hi everyone | 14:00 |
| mestery | Who's here for the last pre-Icehouse Summit ML2 meeting? | 14:00 |
| mestery | hi rkukura! | 14:00 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ML2 Agenda | 14:00 |
| mestery | Short meeting today focused on the ML2 Icehouse Design Summit Sessions | 14:01 |
| mestery | So, just a note: If you had an ML2 session accepted, please create an etherpad this week for the summit next week. | 14:01 |
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| mestery | I've created some for "ML2 Extensibility" and "Deprecated Plugin Migration" already. | 14:02 |
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| mestery | Sean Collins created one for "ML2 QoS" as well. | 14:02 |
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| mestery | I'd appreciate the ML2 team adding notes to the "Deprecated Plugin Migration" etherpad. | 14:03 |
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| mestery | That one will require community input to be succesful I think. | 14:03 |
| mestery | So .... that's all I had for this meeting. | 14:03 |
| mestery | Any comments? | 14:03 |
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| rkukura | haven't had a chance to go through the schedule yet and see how the ml2 sessions got paired up, but seems there are 4 or 5 sessions | 14:05 |
| mestery | rkukura: I think so, yes. | 14:05 |
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| rkukura | other than me and mestery, do we know who else from these meetings will be in HK? | 14:06 |
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| mestery | rkukura: I think we're alone today. :) | 14:07 |
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| rkukura | did Sukhdev just join? | 14:07 |
| Sukhdev | good morning | 14:07 |
| Sukhdev | yes | 14:07 |
| mestery | Morning Sukhdev! | 14:07 |
| mestery | Will we see you in Hong Kong next week? | 14:07 |
| Sukhdev | yes - will be there | 14:08 |
| dkehn | I will be there | 14:08 |
| Sukhdev | coming a day late :-) | 14:08 |
| mestery | Great! Looking forward to meeting folks in person next week! | 14:08 |
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| rkukura | likewise | 14:09 |
| mestery | OK, anyone have anything else? | 14:09 |
| mestery | If not, please setup an etherpad for your session this week so it's ready to go for the Summit next week! | 14:09 |
| Sukhdev | wanted to ask a favor - | 14:09 |
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| mestery | And feel free to add notes to the existing etherpads as well. | 14:09 |
| dkehn | yes I'm trying to get the config setup for using ml2 in baremetal and have a few question | 14:09 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Sure. | 14:09 |
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| mestery | dkehn: Cool! How can we help? | 14:09 |
| Sukhdev | I resubmitted my patch for havana/stable - | 14:09 |
| Sukhdev | can you help get this merged? | 14:10 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Yes, will review this today. | 14:10 |
| Sukhdev | have some DB migration issue will take care of this moning | 14:10 |
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| Sukhdev | yes - it will ready today | 14:10 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: great | 14:10 |
| rkukura | Sukhdev: Saw that and was thinking the stable maintainers usually do the back-ports, but I could be mistaken | 14:10 |
| Sukhdev | cool thanks | 14:10 |
| Sukhdev | do I have to follow some different process for that? | 14:11 |
| mestery | rkukura: I think getting some +1s from us helps their job. | 14:11 |
| dkehn | other than the neutron.conf, core_plugin is there other parms I need to address | 14:11 |
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| Sukhdev | OK cool | 14:11 |
| Sukhdev | thanks | 14:11 |
| mestery | dkehn: Does bare metal use OVS with agents? If so, that config should remain the same from your OVS configuration. | 14:11 |
| dkehn | yes, or at least I would like to remain suing the ovs | 14:12 |
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| mestery | OK, then you should be good to go, as ML2 works with the OVS agent. | 14:12 |
| dkehn | then were do we direct the ml2 usage | 14:12 |
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| dkehn | if the core_plugin is to remain the same? | 14:12 |
| mestery | dkehn: In neutron.conf by setting hte core plugin | 14:12 |
| rkukura | dkehn: Do you main install on bare metal, or doing a bare metal cloud? | 14:12 |
| mestery | No, core_plugin becomes ML2 | 14:13 |
| mestery | But the agent config remains the same | 14:13 |
| dkehn | ok, thats what I was assuming just wanted to verify | 14:13 |
| rkukura | Don't forget to add L3 to the service plugin list. | 14:13 |
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| mestery | dkehn: Cool! Let us know how it goes when you give it a try. | 14:14 |
| dkehn | ok, thx | 14:14 |
| mestery | rkukura: Good point, I forgot about that. | 14:14 |
| dkehn | see you all inb HK | 14:14 |
| mestery | dkehn: Same here! | 14:14 |
| mestery | OK, if there is nothing else, lets call this meeting early. | 14:14 |
| rkukura | I think thats it! | 14:14 |
| mestery | OK, thanks everyone! | 14:15 |
| mestery | Looking forward to some productive ML2 discussions in Hong Kong next week! | 14:15 |
| mestery | See you all there! | 14:15 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:15 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 30 14:15:25 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:15 |
| dkehn | is the service plugin in neutron? | 14:15 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-10-30-14.00.html | 14:15 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-10-30-14.00.txt | 14:15 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-10-30-14.00.log.html | 14:15 |
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| rkukura | dkehn: Yes | 14:16 |
| dkehn | rkukura: can you provide the actual tag, thx | 14:16 |
| mestery | dkehn: service_plugins = neutron.services.l3_router.l3_router_plugin.L3RouterPlugin | 14:18 |
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| dkehn | thx | 14:18 |
| rkukura | looks right to mew | 14:18 |
| rkukura | s/mew/me/ | 14:18 |
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| dkehn | mestery: assuming that goes into the default section? | 14:19 |
| mestery | dkehn: Yes, correct. | 14:20 |
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| dkehn | mestery: what is the default, just curious | 14:21 |
| mestery | dkehn: I don't think there is a default, but ML2 requires this as we decoupled the L3 mixin from ML2 in Havana. | 14:22 |
| dkehn | mestery: good to know | 14:22 |
| rkukura | mestery, dkehn: There is a puppet module for ml2 in review. Haven't had a chance to review it myself yet, but wouldn't hurt for any of us to take a look | 14:22 |
| dkehn | mestery: so bascially the following are the only core_plugin = neutron.plugins.ml2.plugin.Ml2Plugin | 14:23 |
| dkehn | service_plugins = neutron.services.l3_router.l3_router_plugin.L3RouterPlugin | 14:23 |
| dkehn | mestery: to bring the ml2 into play | 14:23 |
| mestery | dkehn: Yes, that should be what's required. | 14:24 |
| mestery | rkukura: Can you point me at the Puppet module review? I'll signup and have a look. | 14:24 |
| dkehn | mestery: great, now for the rebuild | 14:24 |
| mestery | dkehn: Les us know how it goes. :) | 14:24 |
| dkehn | mestery: will do, thx again | 14:25 |
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| dkehn | mestery: one more so in the nova.conf I've set the linuxnet_interface_driver=nova.network.linux_net.LinuxOVSInterfaceDriver, I'm assuing this should stay | 14:26 |
| dkehn | mestery: this is the Driver used to create ethernet devices | 14:27 |
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| mestery | dkehn: That should work, though I had thought in Icehouse that one was going away in favor of the generic driver. | 14:29 |
| mestery | Is this Havana or Icehouse? | 14:29 |
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| dkehn | should be pulling from truck each time | 14:30 |
| dkehn | so latests | 14:30 |
| rkukura | mestery: See https://review.openstack.org/#/c/48289/ | 14:31 |
| mestery | kukura: Thanks | 14:32 |
| mestery | rkukura: Thanks | 14:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 30 15:01:40 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think BobBall is on holiday, is anyone here today? | 15:01 |
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| pvo | o/ | 15:02 |
| pvo | but probably not as useful as bob | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | nice to see you though | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | anyone got anything to raise | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | we just changed the clocks in the UK, so that may cause some confusion | 15:02 |
| pvo | heh. that always happens. | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #help please review the summit session plan https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IcehouseXenAPIRoadmap | 15:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I haven't really got anything else to chat about, but will hang on to see if mate or anyone else joins and has something to say | 15:04 |
| pvo | sounds good. Thanks john. | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | no problem | 15:05 |
| pvo | Consider breaking 1:1 hypervisor / nova-compute mapping | 15:05 |
| pvo | I'm very interested in this. | 15:05 |
| pvo | we would reduce our footprint by a pretty large factor | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yes, it would really help | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | my thinking is several nova-computes on a single VM, a separate process and config file for each nova-compute | 15:06 |
| pvo | johnthetubaguy: not sure if you know, but is Citrix moving away from vhd? | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | then we only have a few things | 15:07 |
| pvo | or did I misread that somewhere? | 15:07 |
| pvo | or was it msft moving away from it? | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | I know Citrix want LVHD support, but I don't see the project dropping VHD, but it might add qcow2 rather than VHDX but its not clear yet | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, that might be VHDX, it removes the 2TB limit in VHD | 15:08 |
| pvo | ah, thats it. | 15:08 |
| pvo | googling turned it up. | 15:08 |
| pvo | Is that something we would want to add on a wishlist? | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | the only thing keeping the 1:1 mapping is stuff like adding the disk partition | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | VHDX? | 15:08 |
| pvo | maybe. I'm doing more research before I open my mouth. : ) | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I think qcow2 is probably better bet | 15:09 |
| pvo | I was going to advocate qcow2 but I need to look at all the specs for vhdx | 15:10 |
| pvo | since I just vaguely heard of it. | 15:10 |
| pvo | maybe its the cat's meow. | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, VHDX got some optimizations that Citrix VHD already added, but yeah | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | the way Xen is going qcow2 might be more likely | 15:10 |
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| pvo | it would make more sense here for the interop. | 15:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, so we should wrap up | 15:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | see some of you in HK | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:21 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 30 15:21:23 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:21 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-10-30-15.01.html | 15:21 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-10-30-15.01.txt | 15:21 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-10-30-15.01.log.html | 15:21 |
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| jgriffith | folks here for cinder meeting? | 16:00 |
| KurtMartin | yep | 16:00 |
| caitlin56 | yes | 16:00 |
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| bswartz | hi | 16:00 |
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| eharney | hi | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: eharney duncanT KurtMartin winston-d avishay | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | ok | 16:00 |
| winston-d | hi, o/ | 16:00 |
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| jgriffith | let's go for it | 16:00 |
| zhiyan | hi | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 30 16:00:42 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| rushiagr | yeah!! | 16:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
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| rushiagr | o/ | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: | 16:00 |
| duncanT | Hey | 16:00 |
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| rushiagr | jusst on time :) | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: with us? | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: :) | 16:01 |
| dosaboy | oh hey yes | 16:01 |
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| duncanT | Glad you shouted, totally forgotten the clocks change altered the meeting time | 16:01 |
| avishay | hi | 16:01 |
| dosaboy | goddam DST ;) | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | #topic backup support for metadata | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "backup support for metadata (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: LOL | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | Howdy all! | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: yo | 16:01 |
| dosaboy | ok so | 16:01 |
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| avishay | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:01 |
| guitarzan | duncanT: it's ok, the rest of us will show up at the wrong time next week | 16:02 |
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| guitarzan | hmm, or the week after I suppose | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | guitarzan: +2 | 16:02 |
| dosaboy | so i had a few discussions now about backlup metadata | 16:02 |
| dosaboy | few opionions flying around | 16:02 |
| dosaboy | but | 16:02 |
| dosaboy | i think the best way forward is as follows | 16:02 |
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| dosaboy | each backup driver will backup a set of volume metadata | 16:03 |
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| dosaboy | that 'set' of metadata will come from a common api | 16:03 |
| dosaboy | presented to all drivers | 16:03 |
| dosaboy | which will be versioned | 16:03 |
| dosaboy | this will allow for the volume to recreated from scratch | 16:03 |
| dosaboy | should the db/cinder cluster get lost | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: why back up the metadata at all? | 16:04 |
| dosaboy | (some caveats tbd) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: ahh... db recovery | 16:04 |
| avishay | dosaboy: i noted on the BP that you need an import_backup too | 16:04 |
| dosaboy | well (queue DuncanT) | 16:04 |
| dosaboy | avishay | 16:04 |
| dosaboy | yes | 16:04 |
| dosaboy | I have created a sperate BP for that | 16:04 |
| dosaboy | basiucally all this back stuff is mushromming a bit ;) | 16:04 |
| avishay | Oh OK, cool - please link the BPs | 16:04 |
| dosaboy | back/backup | 16:04 |
| dosaboy | yeah sorry i am all over the shop this week | 16:05 |
| duncanT | The vision I've always tryed to keep for backup is that it *is* for disaster recovery | 16:05 |
| dosaboy | trying to keep up | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: DR of what though? | 16:05 |
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| caitlin56 | dosaboy: how would this work if we allowed the Volume Drivers to do backups? | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: it's not an HA implementation of Cinder | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: at least I don't think it should be | 16:05 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: Cidner volumes. Even if your cinder cluster caught frie orr got stolen, you can still get you volume(s) back | 16:05 |
| duncanT | Gah, typing fail | 16:06 |
| caitlin56 | dosaboy: having the Volume Driver do the backup would be more efficient when the drives are external, but we need a definitive format. | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: if it's cinder volumes I ask again, why even back up metadata | 16:06 |
| avishay | jgriffith: if you backup to a remote site and you lose your entire cinder, your backups should remain usable | 16:06 |
| dosaboy | caitlin56: not sure what you mean | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: besides the point right now | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | duncanT: So, the data about what volumes there were? | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | avishay: that's Cinder DR not volume backup | 16:06 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: because certain volumes are useless without at least some metadata (e.g. the bootable flags and glace metadata for licensing) | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | what I'm saying is that they're two very different things | 16:06 |
| avishay | jgriffith: everything's connected :) | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: ok.. I'm going ot try this one more time | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | avishay: duncanT | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | first: | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: Oh, ok, backup of the volumes is separate and then this backs up the data for accessing them. Right? | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | My thought regarding the purpose of volume backup service is to backup volumes | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | what you're proposing now is bleeding over into the db contents | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | however... | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | if you're going to do that, then I would argue that you have to go all the way | 16:07 |
| dosaboy | jgriffith: since we need to backup the metadata, we could just shove it in the backend and effectively get DR for free | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | in other words just backing up the meta is only part of the story | 16:08 |
| dosaboy | it is not much effort to get that done | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | dosaboy: ummm... I don't think it's that simple honestly | 16:08 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: quotas, limits etc etc | 16:08 |
| dosaboy | well, | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | all of those things exist in the DB | 16:08 |
| avishay | dosaboy: it's DR with high RPO and RTO | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | snapshots | 16:08 |
| duncanT | quotas, limits etc I don't think are part of the volume | 16:08 |
| dosaboy | that is where my versioned api comes in | 16:08 |
| dosaboy | so | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: neither is metadata | 16:09 |
| dosaboy | the idea is that we define a sufficient set of metadata | 16:09 |
| bswartz | if you want to recover from your whole cinder going up in smoke you need to mirror the whole cinder DB | 16:09 |
| duncanT | But the stuff needed to use the volume *is* part of the volume | 16:09 |
| caitlin56 | Backing up the metadata with the data is relatively easy, it's standardizing it and being compatible with existing backups that takes work. | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | I honestly think this makes things WAY more complicated than we should | 16:09 |
| dosaboy | caitlin56: hence the versioning | 16:09 |
| avishay | caitlin56: yes | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | if you want cinder DR then implement an HA cinder setup | 16:09 |
| duncanT | bswartz: The backup API allows you to choose (and pay for in certain cases) a safe, cold storage copy of you volume | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | if you want to back up databases, back them up using a backup service | 16:09 |
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| duncanT | I *don't* want to back up the database | 16:10 |
| winston-d | caitlin56: but can we 'backup' the metadata in db? | 16:10 |
| caitlin56 | Backing up the CinderDB means that you would be restoring *all* volumes. | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: but that's your argument here | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | the only reason to backup metadata is if the db is lost | 16:10 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: No it isn't | 16:10 |
| duncanT | (my arguement) | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | ok... then why backup the metadata at all? | 16:10 |
| caitlin56 | If you want to restore selective volumes then you need selective metadata (or no metadata, which is what jgriffith is arguing). | 16:10 |
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| duncanT | Right, I want a backup to be a disaster resistant copy of a volume. | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: what's the logic to backing up the metadata? | 16:11 |
| bswartz | if you're not worried about the database going away, then there's no point to making more copies of the metadata | 16:11 |
| duncanT | Including everything you need to use *that volume* | 16:11 |
| duncanT | Not *all volumes* | 16:11 |
| duncanT | Not *cinder config* | 16:11 |
| duncanT | Just the volume I've said is important | 16:11 |
| duncanT | Otehrwise use a snapshot | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | You're still not realy answering my question | 16:12 |
| winston-d | bswartz: yes, there is. we 'snapshot' the metadata, in DB | 16:12 |
| caitlin56 | duncanT: can you site some specific metadata fields that you would not know how to set when restoring just the volume payload? | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: +1 | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: which is my whole point | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: and what I'm trying to get duncanT to explain | 16:12 |
| duncanT | caitlin56: The bootable flag. The licensing info held in the glance metadata | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | introducing things like "disaster resistant" isn't very helpful to me :) | 16:13 |
| avishay | winston-d: needs to be consistent | 16:13 |
| bswartz | winston-d: you're imagining that the metadata might change and you want to restore it from an old copy? | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | that's a bit subjective | 16:13 |
| duncanT | I'd like to be able to import a backup into a clean cinder install | 16:13 |
| winston-d | bswartz: correct | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: ahh... that's VERY different! | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: that's volume import or migration | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | that's NOT volume backup | 16:13 |
| bswartz | winston-d: seems reasonble | 16:13 |
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| duncanT | jgriffith: No, it's backup and restore | 16:13 |
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| avishay | no, it's not migration | 16:13 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: Even if cinder dies, catchs fire etc | 16:13 |
| * dosaboy is sitting on the fence whistling | 16:14 | |
| caitlin56 | Does anyone have examples of metadagta that SHOULD NOT be restored when you migrate a volume from one site to another? | 16:14 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: The backup should be enough to get my working volume back | 16:14 |
| avishay | migration is within one openstack install | 16:14 |
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| duncanT | I put that on my first ever backup slide, and I propose to keep it there | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yeah... | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | avishay: duncanT alright we're obviously not going to agree here | 16:14 |
| * jungleboyj is enjoying the show. | 16:15 | |
| jgriffith | avishay: well maybe you and I will | 16:15 |
| avishay | haha | 16:15 |
| winston-d | avishay: backup is within one cinder install as well, no? | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: fine, so you want a "cinder-volume service" backup | 16:15 |
| avishay | i'm with duncanT on this one | 16:15 |
| avishay | winston-d: i can backup to wherever i want - think geo-distributed swift even | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | haha | 16:15 |
| dosaboy | avishay: +1 | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | WTF? | 16:15 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: I just want the volume I backup to come back, even if cinder caught fire in the mean time | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | right | 16:16 |
| * bswartz is nervou about conflating backup/restore use cases with DR use cases | 16:16 | |
| bswartz | nervous* | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | the key is "cinder caugh fire" | 16:16 |
| avishay | if i backup to geo-distributed swift, and a meteor hits my datacenter, i can rebuild and point my new metadata to existing swift objects | 16:16 |
| caitlin56 | What is a backup? If it is not enough to restore a volume to a new context then why not just replicate snapshots? | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | sorry.. buy you're saying "backup as a service" in openstack as a whole IMO | 16:16 |
| duncanT | backup has been DR since day one on the design spec | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | You're not talking about restoring a volume anymore | 16:16 |
| winston-d | avishay, duncanT don't forget to backup volume types, and qos alone with volume and metadata | 16:17 |
| guitarzan | where is that leap coming from? | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | you're talking about all the little nooks and crannies that your specific install/implementation may require | 16:17 |
| bswartz | duncanT: I don't agree that taking backups is the best way to implement DR -- it's *a* way, but a relatively poor one | 16:17 |
| avishay | backup and replication are on the same scale, with different RPO/RTO and fail-over methods | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | and what's worse is you're saying "I only care about metadata" | 16:17 |
| winston-d | avishay: duncanT 'cos those two are considered to be 'metadata' to the voluem as well | 16:17 |
| duncanT | The problem is, when I first wrote backup, we didn't have bootable flags, or volume encryption... you got the bits back onto an iscsi target and you were back in business | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | but somebody else says "but I care about quotas" | 16:17 |
| guitarzan | winston-d has an interesting point | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | and somebody else cares about something else | 16:17 |
| duncanT | Glance metadata was the first bug | 16:17 |
| bswartz | the real value of backups is when you don't have a disaster, but you've corrupted your data somehow | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | It doesn't end until you backup all of cinder and the db | 16:17 |
| avishay | winston-d: but i can put the data into a volume with different qos and it still works | 16:17 |
| duncanT | Types or rate limits don't stop me using a volume | 16:18 |
| guitarzan | bswartz: isn't that a disaster? :) | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: they on't stop YOU | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | that's the key | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | they may stop others though depending on IMPL | 16:18 |
| bswartz | guitarzan: no -- that's a snafu | 16:18 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: They don't stop a customer... | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: they don't stop your customers | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: they stop mine | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: I have specific heat jobs that require volumes of certain types | 16:19 |
| bswartz | there's a difference between users screwing up their own data, and a service provider having an outage | 16:19 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: The point is, right now, even if you've got your backup of a bootable volume, it is useless if cinder looses stuff out the DB | 16:19 |
| winston-d | avishay but that's not the original volume (not data) any more. | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: perhaps | 16:19 |
| winston-d | avishay: i mean data is, volume is not | 16:19 |
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| caitlin56 | Would it always make sense when restoring a single volume to a new datacenter to preserve the prior QoS/quotas/etc.? | 16:19 |
| avishay | winston-d: that's philosophical :P | 16:19 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: You can't restore it in such a way that you can boot from it. At all. | 16:19 |
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| dosaboy | all this could be accounted for by simply defining a required matadata set | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: but the purpose of the backup IMO is if your backend takes a dump a user can get his data back, or as bswartz pointed out a user does "rm -rf /*" | 16:19 |
| dosaboy | i don't see why that would be so complex | 16:20 |
| winston-d | dosaboy: +1 | 16:20 |
| avishay | it's all of these use cases | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: I don't disagree with that | 16:20 |
| dosaboy | deliberating whther this or that metadata is required is ot reall for this conversation | 16:20 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: Right now, I CAN'T GET MY BOOTABLE VOLUME TO BOOT | 16:20 |
| avishay | it's rm -rf, it's a fire, it's a meteor | 16:20 |
| duncanT | It jsut can't be done | 16:20 |
| caitlin56 | dosaboy: agreed, if we are going to backup metadata, we need to define filters on the metadata so only things that should be kept are. | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: keep yelling | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: I'll keep ignoring :) | 16:21 |
| guitarzan | that's the bug, you can't boot a restored backup | 16:21 |
| avishay | jgriffith: accidental caps lock ;) | 16:21 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: Sorry, I was out of line a touch there | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | avishay: haha... I don't think that's the case | 16:21 |
| avishay | jgriffith: be optimistic :) | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: so like I said in IRC the other day.... | 16:21 |
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| dosaboy | yarp | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: I'm fine with it being implemented, I could care less | 16:22 |
| winston-d | i'd like to consider the volume as a virtual hard drive. | 16:22 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: But a snapshot covers the rm -rf case | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: I have the info in my DB so I really don't care | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: If you're an idiot and you don't back up you db then hey.. this at least will help you | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: but something else is going to bight you in the ass later | 16:22 |
| winston-d | whatever it takes to backup a virtual hard drive, that's what we should do in cinder backup. | 16:22 |
| caitlin56 | Allowing snapshot replication would deal with disaster recovery issues, but not with porting a volume to a new vendor. | 16:22 |
| dosaboy | damn it, i'm back on the fence again | 16:23 |
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| dosaboy | i kinda think the only way to resolve this is to have a vote | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: I also think that things like metadata would be good in an "export/import" api | 16:23 |
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| avishay | dosaboy: democracy doesn't work in these situations i think :) | 16:23 |
| thingee | I missed the beginning of this convo. Why are people opposed to it restoring metadata? | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: duncanT but like I said, it doesn't *hurt* me if you put metadata there | 16:23 |
| dosaboy | lol | 16:23 |
| duncanT | I totally agree that theya re part of export too | 16:23 |
| duncanT | And transfer for that matter | 16:24 |
| dosaboy | ok so, i have implement a chunk of this, | 16:24 |
| avishay | what is "volume export"? | 16:24 |
| duncanT | Certain volumes are literally useless if you loose certain bits of their metadata | 16:24 |
| dosaboy | why don't i see if i can knock uo the rest | 16:24 |
| dosaboy | and then if you like... | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | dosaboy: I do think someone should better define the purpose of cinder-backup though | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: that's fine by me | 16:24 |
| winston-d | thingee: i think we are discussing about where to save the copy of metadata for a volume backup, in DB or in Swift/Ceph/Sth else | 16:24 |
| dosaboy | jgriffith: totally agree | 16:24 |
| zhiyan | winston-d: if we thinking volume as a virtual hard driver, so can we export it as a package, like ovf? it contains metadata | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: like I said, I won't object to backing it up at all | 16:25 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: +1 | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: but I don't want to have misleading expectations | 16:25 |
| dosaboy | i would have asked for a session if i had not confrmed HK so late | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: this is nowhere near a Cinder DR recovery backup | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | and I don't want to make it one | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | errr... | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | s/recover// | 16:25 |
| dosaboy | there are many a stong opinion on this one ;) | 16:25 |
| thingee | winston-d: I think we've discussed before to leave it to the object store. | 16:25 |
| caitlin56 | jrgriffith: we're debating what a backup is good for. | 16:25 |
| thingee | as object store metadata | 16:25 |
| avishay | jgriffith: what is "volume export"? | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | avishay: non-existent :) | 16:26 |
| avishay | jgriffith: it looks like i'm leading the "volume import" session, so thought I should know :) | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | avishay: the idea/proposal was to be able to kick out volumes from Cinder without deleting them off the backend | 16:26 |
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| dosaboy | put it this way, as long as the necessary metadat is backed up (either way) | 16:27 |
| avishay | jgriffith: ah OK | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | and then obviously an import to pull in existing volumes | 16:27 |
| dosaboy | noone gets hurt | 16:27 |
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| winston-d | thingee: yeah, but as i said to dosaboy the other day, i missed that discussion | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: agreed | 16:27 |
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| dosaboy | soi'll keep going in the track i'm on | 16:27 |
| dosaboy | and we can take a look at what i get done | 16:27 |
| avishay | jgriffith: quotas are tricky on export | 16:27 |
| dosaboy | if we don't like it then fine | 16:27 |
| thingee | dosaboy: are you still storing it in object store metadata? | 16:28 |
| dosaboy | thingee: yes | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | avishay: indeed | 16:28 |
| dosaboy | but each driver will have it's own way | 16:28 |
| duncanT | avishay: I'd suggest that once something is kicked out of cinder, then it can't take up a cinder quota? | 16:28 |
| winston-d | avishay: and types, extra specs, qos? | 16:28 |
| caitlin56 | dosaboy: be sure to escape the metadata then. | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: +1 | 16:28 |
| avishay | duncanT: but it still takes up space on disk | 16:28 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: yeah so that's the counter, however you kicked it out | 16:28 |
| duncanT | avishay: Not cinder's problem once you've explicitly decided it isn't cinder's problem | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | avishay: that tenant can't 'access' via cinder anymore | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | avishay: it's troubling.... | 16:29 |
| avishay | jgriffith: yes. is export needed? | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'm having the same dilema with adding a purge call to the API | 16:29 |
| caitlin56 | Quotas are tricky, because they are implicitly part of the cinder context where the backup was made. | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | avishay: well that's another good question :) | 16:29 |
| dosaboy | ooh i had not thought of that | 16:29 |
| dosaboy | so how do backups count towards quota atm? | 16:30 |
| avishay | wait...i'm sorry i forked the conversation | 16:30 |
| avishay | people are getting confused | 16:30 |
| duncanT | dosaboy: Currently they don't | 16:30 |
| * rushiagr definitely is | 16:30 | |
| avishay | we moved to talk about "volume export" without finishing backup metadata | 16:30 |
| dosaboy | and i presume that is bad? | 16:30 |
| * jgriffith went down the fork nobody else is on | 16:30 | |
| avishay | haha | 16:30 |
| caitlin56 | dosaboy: backups should count in your *object* storage quoata, not cinder. | 16:30 |
| avishay | i think we can hash out export at the session. i think we should also find time to talk about backup metadata. | 16:31 |
| dosaboy | caitlin56: but they don't necessarily go to an object store | 16:31 |
| dosaboy | like if you offload to TSM | 16:31 |
| caitlin56 | dosaboy: when the backup is to an object store, we should let that object store track/report the data consumption. | 16:31 |
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| thingee | caitlin56: +1 | 16:32 |
| jungleboyj | caitlin56: That makes sense. | 16:32 |
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| jungleboyj | Cinder can't run the whole world. | 16:32 |
| thingee | I don't want this problem where multiple projects are tracking the same resource quota again. | 16:32 |
| jungleboyj | ...yet. | 16:32 |
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| dosaboy | anyway i don't wanna hijack this meeting anymore | 16:32 |
| dosaboy | i think quotas in backup are discussion to be had though | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: too bad :) | 16:33 |
| avishay | dosaboy: duncanT: can you come up with a set of metadata to back up and we'll discuss in person next week? we can do an ad-hoc session? jgriffith sound good? | 16:33 |
| dosaboy | sure | 16:33 |
| duncanT | Sure | 16:33 |
| * jungleboyj is sorry he is going to miss that discussion. The IRC version was fun! | 16:34 | |
| jgriffith | avishay: sure... but like I said, if dosaboy just wants to implement backup of metadata with a volume I have no objection | 16:34 |
| dosaboy | we can all sit around a nice campfire | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | so it would be a short conversation on my part :) | 16:34 |
| avishay | ok :) | 16:34 |
| dosaboy | DuncanT can make the cocoa | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | no way!!!! | 16:34 |
| jungleboyj | dosaboy: +1 | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | I know duncanT would push me into the fire | 16:34 |
| dosaboy | haha | 16:34 |
| avishay | that way we know if duncanT is yelling or just hit the caps lock ;) | 16:34 |
| avishay | hahah | 16:34 |
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| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:34 |
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| dosaboy | don't worry, i'll bring the whiskey | 16:35 |
| jungleboyj | dosaboy: +2 | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | alright... | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | well that was fun | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | Is Ehud around? | 16:35 |
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| EhudTrainin | yes | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | EhudTrainin: welcome | 16:35 |
| EhudTrainin | hi | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | #topic fencing | 16:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "fencing (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:35 | |
| jgriffith | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/fencing-and-unfencing | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | for those that haven't seen it ^^ | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | EhudTrainin: I'll let you kick it off | 16:36 |
| EhudTrainin | It is about adding fencing functionality to Cinder | 16:37 |
| EhudTrainin | in order to support HA for instances | 16:37 |
| avishay | blueprint explains it pretty well | 16:38 |
| EhudTrainin | by ensuring the instances on a failed host would not try to access the storage after they rebuilt on another host | 16:38 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: +1 | 16:38 |
| duncanT | My concerns here are the failure cases... partitioned storage etc... | 16:38 |
| winston-d | avishay: +1, nice write up in the bp. haven't seen any one like that for quite a while. | 16:38 |
| rushiagr | +1 for beutifully explaining in BP | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | yeah, the bp is well written (nice job on that by the way) | 16:38 |
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| avishay | duncanT: please elaborate | 16:39 |
| duncanT | It's easy to say it's hard for nova so cinder should do it, but exactly the same problems exist in cinder failure cases... like cinder looses communitication with a storage backend | 16:39 |
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| zhiyan | EhudTrainin: i'm thinking how to cinder identify those attachment session for a volume. seems need prevent such race condition issue.. IMO | 16:40 |
| avishay | it's not hard for nova - it's impossible for nova. the server is in a bad state and we can't trust it to do the right thing. | 16:40 |
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| jgriffith | I guess my only real question was: | 16:40 |
| hemna | fencing ? | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | 1. why would the compute host try and access the storage? | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | 2. why do we necessarily care? | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | I should clarify before somebody flips out... | 16:41 |
| EhudTrainin | I think that if the storage does not response then fence will fail, but it is lower probability to both host and storage fail at the same time | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | If a compute host *fails* and instances are migrated | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | it should IMO be up to nova to disable the atachments on the *failed* compute host | 16:41 |
| avishay | jgriffith: it might not fail completely - it might just lose connectivity or go into some other bad state | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | avishay: sure | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: but it migrated instances right? | 16:42 |
| hemna | shouldn't nova deal with detaching and reattaching elsewhere ? | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | hemna: that's kinda what I was saying | 16:42 |
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| thingee | I agree with jgriffith. it should be up to whatever is doing the migration. | 16:42 |
| avishay | wait | 16:42 |
| hemna | since Nova should know that it had to migrate the instance to another host, it has the knowledge of the state | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | we could really screw some things up if we make incorrect decisions | 16:42 |
| duncanT | But currently there is no way of telling cinder 'make sure this is teally detached', I don't think | 16:42 |
| avishay | EhudTrainin: if nova brings up the instance on another VM, does it have the same instance ID? | 16:42 |
| duncanT | *totally detached | 16:43 |
| EhudTrainin | This is not exactly migation, but a rebuild, since the host from Nova point of view has failed | 16:43 |
| caitlin56 | jgriffith: I agree, nova knows the client state accurately. It should deal with the results of that changing. | 16:43 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: migrate the instance may or maynot stop the old one from connecting cinder | 16:43 |
| hemna | avishay, I'd asume since it's a rebuild,it would be a new instance id | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: yeah... but I'm saying it *should* | 16:43 |
| dosaboy | sounds like we expect the same piece of code that may fail to migrat and instance to be sane enough to ensure a fence | 16:43 |
| hemna | could be a poor assumption though | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: that could be double un-good | 16:44 |
| dosaboy | yeah, i may be missing how this would be done though | 16:44 |
| avishay | the use case is that the nova server is not responsive but the VM continues to run and access the storage | 16:44 |
| EhudTrainin | It may rebuild with the same IP and attach it to the same volume | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ahhh | 16:44 |
| caitlin56 | dosaboy: could you propose something where we are protecting the volume rather than doing nova's work for it? | 16:44 |
| duncanT | So if a compute node goes wonkey, when is it safe to reattach a volume that was attached to that host to another instance? | 16:45 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: so rogue vm's that nova can't get to anymore | 16:45 |
| avishay | jgriffith: yes | 16:45 |
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| jgriffith | duncanT: never probably | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | avishay: so who does the fencing? | 16:45 |
| avishay | but now i'm think that maybe this is only a problem if we have multi-attach? | 16:45 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: Indeed. I think the idea of fence is 'make it safe to do that' | 16:45 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i assume the admin | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | avishay:ie who makes the call | 16:45 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: and why not just send a detach/disconnect | 16:45 |
| caitlin56 | rogueVMs aren't something we shoudl solve - at most we should protect the volume from rogue VMs. | 16:45 |
| dosaboy | caitlin56: not sure what you mean there | 16:46 |
| hemna | jgriffith, +1 | 16:46 |
| duncanT | caitlin56: The idea here *is* to protect the volume for a rogue VM | 16:46 |
| dosaboy | caitlin56: how does cinder know what a rogue vm is though?> | 16:46 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: detach failed | 16:46 |
| duncanT | I guess it is a disconnect on steroids | 16:46 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: 'cos nova compute is not reachable | 16:46 |
| caitlin56 | dosaboy: exactly, we don't want cinder falsely deciding a VM is rogue. | 16:46 |
| hemna | dosaboy, cinder doesn't know. only nova does | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: yeah, I'm assumign that's what the implementation would basicly be here | 16:47 |
| dosaboy | catlin56: ah gotcha | 16:47 |
| hemna | I think nova should drive this and I'm not sure what cinder needs to do during the fencing process. nova should detach from the rogue vm | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | Ok... so interesting scenarios | 16:47 |
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| avishay | EhudTrainin: want to comment? | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | here's my take... | 16:47 |
| thingee | hemna: +1 nova should be driving this | 16:47 |
| thingee | cinder does not have enough information | 16:48 |
| duncanT | hemna: If the compute node stops talking, nova can't to the detach from the VM | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | if you want to implement a service/admin API call to force disconnect from a node and ban a node I *think* that's ok | 16:48 |
| winston-d | hemna: what if nova failed to detach volume, the only hope is to beg cinder to help | 16:48 |
| EhudTrainin | An instance may be rougue when there is no connection to nova-compute of its host, but in future further indication may used to decide a host is failed | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | quite honestly I'm worried about the bugs that will be logged due to operator/admin error though | 16:48 |
| winston-d | hemna: cinder is on the end of the connection | 16:48 |
| hemna | winston-d, cinder failed in that case as well no ? | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: EhudTrainin hemna avishay duncanT caitlin56 thoughts on my comment ^^ | 16:48 |
| avishay | jgriffith: +1 | 16:49 |
| hemna | jgriffith, +1 | 16:49 |
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| duncanT | jgriffith: I totally agree this is basically a force call | 16:49 |
| thingee | I think we all understand the use case now. nova node is not responsive, rouge vms. Still we keep coming back to cinder not having enough information. I think really though nova should be driving this still in handling this situation happening. | 16:49 |
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| winston-d | jgriffith: +1 | 16:49 |
| avishay | thingee: what's missing? | 16:49 |
| dosaboy | +1 | 16:49 |
| hemna | if nova can't talk to the n-cpu process on the host, nova can't really detach the volume. | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | thingee: yeah, but if we step back.... | 16:49 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: My single concern is how to signal to the caller that the call failed | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | thingee: allowing an admin to force disconnect and ban a node from connecting I'm ok | 16:50 |
| EhudTrainin | The problem Nova can't take care of this, since a failure indication does not ensure the the instance is not talking to the storage or won't do it after some time | 16:50 |
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| jgriffith | duncanT: can you explain? | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | sorry | 16:50 |
| winston-d | duncanT: signal for what? force detach failed? | 16:50 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: If cinder can't talk to the storage backend, it can't force the detach... | 16:50 |
| thingee | EhudTrainin: I apologize, but this is the first time I'm hearing about the bp. I'll check it out to understand more, but as jgriffith mentioned I fear the bugs in automating this. | 16:50 |
| thingee | I like the idea of admin call to force detach though | 16:51 |
| duncanT | winston-d: Yes, forced detach failed | 16:51 |
| duncanT | winston-d: It is far from a show-stopper, just want to ensure it is thought of | 16:51 |
| hemna | thingee, but if n-cpu isn't reachable on the host....nova can't detach the volume. | 16:51 |
| avishay | duncanT: if nobody can talk to the VM and nobody can talk to the storage, i guess you need to pull the plug :) | 16:51 |
| winston-d | duncanT: a-synch call, no call back. please come back query the result. | 16:51 |
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| jgriffith | ok | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | so EhudTrainin I think the take-away (and I can add this to bp if you like) | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | is: | 16:52 |
| duncanT | winston-d: That's fine, yup, just need to remember to add the queryable status :-) | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | 1. Add an admin API call to attempt force disconnect of an attachment/s to a specified node/IP | 16:52 |
| hemna | the best you can do in that case is ask cinder to disconnect from the backend, that'll eventually leave a broken LUN on the host, which will give i/o errors for the host and the vm. | 16:52 |
| thingee | hemna: cinder still doesn't have the information needed though to act. Maybe this bp explains that..I haven't read it yet. | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | Ummm... hmm | 16:52 |
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| xyang__ | avishay: if this is done by cinder, what happened to the entries in nova db | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | so then what :) | 16:53 |
| hemna | thingee, cinder has the volume and attachment info in it's db. it can call the right backend to disconnect | 16:53 |
| avishay | xyang__: good question - EhudTrainin ? | 16:53 |
| thingee | this is a nova node HA problem. I'm not sure why we're trying to solve it with cinder. | 16:53 |
| winston-d | xyang__: nova is the caller, it should know what to do about the block-device-mapping | 16:53 |
| hemna | this is just icky | 16:53 |
| thingee | hemna: that's not the problem | 16:54 |
| xyang__ | winston-d: nova is not working here, right | 16:54 |
| thingee | hemna: the problem is cinder doesn't know to act | 16:54 |
| xyang__ | winston: this will be a cinder operation completely | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | xyang__: a particular compute node is trashed | 16:54 |
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| avishay | so this should start at n-api and then to cinder? | 16:54 |
| hemna | thingee, well not yet. :) we were talking about forcing a disconnect from cinder. | 16:54 |
| duncanT | thingee: Nova knows it has lost track of a vm and can make the call, yes? | 16:54 |
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| hemna | duncanT, yah | 16:54 |
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| EhudTrainin | when the instance is rebuilt, the volume is detached and then attached. the rebuild would be done only after fencing to avoid possible conflict | 16:54 |
| thingee | duncanT, hemna: as jgriffith mentioned, I think making a call to force deatach is good. But nova should make that call | 16:55 |
| hemna | thingee, +1 | 16:55 |
| thingee | or an admin | 16:55 |
| winston-d | xyang__: nova compute is not working, not the entire nova, e.g. nova-api is still working | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | EhudTrainin: ok, now you kinda lost me | 16:55 |
| duncanT | thingee +1 | 16:55 |
| xyang__ | winston-d: ok. | 16:55 |
| hemna | winston-d, but the host needs n-cpu to be working in order to detach the volume from the VM and the host | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | hemna: no | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | hemna: it just needs n-api | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | hemna: n-api can call cinder | 16:56 |
| avishay | EhudTrainin: i think the question is - why can't this be implemented in nova, where nova-api calls detach/terminate_connection for all volumes attached to the host? | 16:56 |
| thingee | jgriffith: but what tells n-api? | 16:56 |
| hemna | n-cpu does the work to detach the volume from the hypervisor and the host kernel | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | thingee: LOL | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | thingee: excellent question :) | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | thingee: and now we're back to admin, in which case who cares if it's direct to cinder api from admin etc | 16:56 |
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| winston-d | hemna: in the case when n-cpu is on fire, n-api has to call for help from cinder | 16:57 |
| thingee | again, I really think this is a nova node HA case. I don't see anything right now that cinder can know to act on. | 16:57 |
| hemna | winston-d, yah I think that's the only option. | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I agree | 16:57 |
| EhudTrainin | The detach command does not ensure that the instace on the mal host would not try to access the storage | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | so you all keep saying things like "nova node on fire" "nova node is unreachable" etc etc | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | if the nova node is so hosed it's probably not going to be making iscsi connections anyway | 16:58 |
| hemna | EhudTrainin, correct, but if the cinder backend driver disconnects from the storage, the host will get i/o errors when the vm/host tries to access the volume. | 16:58 |
| avishay | what about file system mounts, where terminate_connection doesn't do anything? | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | I have an easy solution... | 16:58 |
| thingee | so we all agree...force deatach exposed. Leave it to the people handling the instances. If a nova node catches fire, there better be another nova node available to catch rouge vms and communicate with cinder | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | ssh root@nova-node; shutdown -h now | 16:58 |
| hemna | EhudTrainin, effectively detaching the volume....but with a dangling LUN | 16:58 |
| winston-d | thingee: cinder doesn't and doesn't have to know. cinder just provides help, in the case when n-cpu is broke and no one can reach n-cpu. | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | if that doesn't work login to pdu and shut off power | 16:58 |
| thingee | winston-d: so when does cinder to the deatch to help? | 16:58 |
| hemna | thingee, +1 | 16:58 |
| avishay | jgriffith: what if the server's management network is down, but it's still accessing a storage network? | 16:59 |
| duncanT | jgriffith: It says in the blueprint you don't always have a PDU | 16:59 |
| hemna | avishay, re: Fibre Channel ? :P | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | avishay: that's where the unplug came from LOL | 16:59 |
| avishay | hemna: or a separate ethernet network | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | duncanT: sighh | 16:59 |
| caitlin56 | henma: if nova is hosed then it shouldn't be surprising that gettig evertything working again will not be trivial. | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | call the DC monkey | 16:59 |
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| avishay | hah | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | alright, we're spiraling | 16:59 |
| thingee | times up. | 16:59 |
| winston-d | thingee: n-api finds out n-cpu is on fire, it'd like to re-create another vm on another n-cpu. but n-api failed to disconnect vol, it has to call for cinder's help | 17:00 |
| hemna | throw a grenade and run. next! | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | EhudTrainin: it's an interesting idea but there are some very valid concerns here IMO | 17:00 |
| avishay | how about this case: we have an NFS mount on the host. disconnect today does nothing. how do we stop the VM from accessing it? | 17:00 |
| duncanT | The way I'm reading the blueprint here, all it is asking for is a force_disconnect_and_rogue_reconnections | 17:00 |
| duncanT | avishay: Kill the export? | 17:00 |
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| hemna | avishay, heh, that's why jgriffith and I complained about the NFS unmount code :) | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | I think we're all fine with an admin extension to force disconnect | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | let's start with that and go from there | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | everybody ok with that? | 17:00 |
| hemna | +1 | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | of course with NFS you're just screwed | 17:01 |
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| winston-d | +1 | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | Ok... we can theorize more in #openstack-cinder if you like | 17:01 |
| thingee | +1 | 17:01 |
| * hartsocks waes | 17:01 | |
| EhudTrainin | I think beyond force disconnect we would also want to prevent the nova-compute on that host from creating new connections | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | thanks everybody | 17:01 |
| hemna | yah good luck deploying a cloud w/ NFS :P | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 30 17:01:41 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-10-30-16.00.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-10-30-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-10-30-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: i think bswartz has some magic to disconect one NFS session on the fly | 17:01 |
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| jgriffith | hemna: lots of people do it | 17:01 |
| hemna | gives me shivers | 17:01 |
| hartsocks | #startmeeting vmwareapi | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 30 17:02:04 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| avishay | i think we can start with this, and EhudTrainin can expand on the BP to see if other options work and why not | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:02 | |
| jgriffith | winston-d: that would be cool, especially since we don't even disconnect int eh current code | 17:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:02 |
| twoputt | hi | 17:02 |
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| * hartsocks waves | 17:02 | |
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| hartsocks | Who's about. | 17:02 |
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| rgerganov | hi | 17:02 |
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| garyk | hi | 17:02 |
| tjones1 | hi | 17:02 |
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| hartsocks | I know HK is looming. So, my plan was to cover blueprints, then bugs, then yield for any HK discussion. | 17:03 |
| hartsocks | #topic blueprints | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:03 | |
| hartsocks | I've been looking through this: | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova?searchtext=vmware | 17:04 |
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| hartsocks | Seeing what folks already proposed. There's been some changes minor in the blueprint process… | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | for something to get higher than "low" priority you are supposed to get 2 core developers on board for reviews. | 17:05 |
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| hartsocks | I think the theory there is to get better review cycles. | 17:06 |
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| smurugesan | Hi, this is Sabari here. | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | hey. | 17:07 |
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| garyk | hopefully after hk we will have a list of bp's | 17:07 |
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| hartsocks | well, | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | yes. | 17:08 |
| garyk | ideally the vmware session will give us an opportunity to share with the community changes we'ed like to make and get their inputs | 17:08 |
| garyk | i would hope that this will enable to core reviewers to get an idea what each one is about | 17:08 |
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| hartsocks | Would you like to discuss anything in this forum or are you saving it all for HK? | 17:08 |
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| hartsocks | I wanted to bring a few BP that are not nova/vmware specific that I think we should be aware of. | 17:09 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/pw-keyrings | 17:09 |
| garyk | there is the etherpad for the session - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/T4tQMQf5uS | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | … I think this blueprint will solve one of our stated goals of getting plain text passwords out of our configurations. | 17:10 |
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| dims | o/ | 17:10 |
| garyk | cool | 17:10 |
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| rgerganov | I guess our SSO blueprint is also related to this goal | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | yep. | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-sso-support | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | My thought there was to use our SSO in vCenter with nova some how. | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | My current thinking is this might be best broken into two halves... | 17:12 |
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| garyk | can you please elaborate on the sso? | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | … a Keystone plugin and a nova plugin. | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | vCenter has a built in SSO facility. | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | It implements various security token schemes. | 17:12 |
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| hartsocks | In particular Holder of Key (HoK) tokens. | 17:13 |
| garyk | ok, sounds interesting | 17:13 |
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| hartsocks | The idea behind a full featured SSO is that you can do "identity proxy" actions... | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | that is a person could log in on the CLI or from Horizon and if SSO works properly... | 17:13 |
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| hartsocks | that identity could be broadcast all the way through to Nova driver communications. | 17:14 |
| twoputt_ | hartsocks: let's say with have the vmware sso implemented, do you think this is something that can go easily to Oslo? | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | I'm trying to get time with the VMware security group to make sure w can do that. | 17:14 |
| twoputt_ | from my perpective the keyring approach is something that all the projects will get for free | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | twoputt_ not sure how to do it yet. | 17:14 |
| rgerganov | I have some hands-on experience with our sso because of my other project at vmw | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | twoputt_: but yes, that oslo BP I linked to is a better more general solution. | 17:15 |
| twoputt_ | yes I think so too | 17:15 |
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| hartsocks | twoputt_ but I'll be running down a few more details to see if there isn't something better to use. The Oslo crypto solution uses a symmetric cipher embedded in the conf. | 17:16 |
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| twoputt_ | ok | 17:16 |
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| hartsocks | So… there's an added benefit if there can be a transient key security context used… but we can only do that if there's an advanced way to integrate Keystone and vCenter SSO… not sure if it can happen yet. | 17:17 |
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| hartsocks | But… the Oslo thing. If some of you have a cycle & interest, that's something to watch. | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-datastore-selection-by-scheduler-filter | 17:17 |
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| hartsocks | I posted this a while ago… not sure if it fits with Gary's current direction. I would like to kill it if it doesn't. | 17:18 |
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| garyk | this is one of the topics we'll discuss at the session | 17:19 |
| smurugesan | My opinion, I think this is bettter handled at the driver level. | 17:19 |
| smurugesan | but it will be interesting to see the other approach as well | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | I would actually like to see more distributed logic in OpenStack… but the current design … style? … ethic? … is to locate *everything* in the scheduler. | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | Centralized knowledge in the scheduler requires one big thing to know *everything* and decide everything. That can't possibly scale well. | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | well, Gary, let me know if I can help or if I need to clarify something for your session. | 17:21 |
| smurugesan | I proposed a change to decouple datastore retrieval and selection in the driver. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52557/1 | 17:21 |
| smurugesan | the selection can be expanded to add more filters. | 17:21 |
| smurugesan | probably we can do it once and better. Need everyones thoughts | 17:22 |
| smurugesan | That is one of the ways to collect aggregate stats. | 17:22 |
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| garyk | help with the scheduling will be great. feel free to jump into the scheduling meetings on tuesdays. there are lots of ideas for improving things | 17:23 |
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| hartsocks | Hmm… I think something similar to how the Scheduler does filters (these are rules systems rules similar to a Prolog program) is probably a better way to specify some of the policy we have lying around in methods like datastore_ref_and_name … | 17:24 |
| garyk | smurugesan: it would be nice if that change also has the regex per clister | 17:24 |
| smurugesan | I will incorporate the same as a dependent patch. | 17:24 |
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| garyk | cluster. not clister | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | nice. | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | I like small patches. | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:25 |
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| hartsocks | My concern is the config for our driver will get too big, too complex, and too brittle... | 17:25 |
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| hartsocks | Which brings me to this BP... | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-driver-configuration-validator-module | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | Dan W. had asked for something like this… which alleviates some problems from a big-heavy config. | 17:26 |
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| hartsocks | But I think this treats a symptom of a bigger problem. | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-auto-inventory | 17:26 |
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| hartsocks | Which was to find some way to "tag" and read vCenter inventory and report it up to the scheduler better. | 17:27 |
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| tjones1 | that would be very cool | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | yeah… but *how* to do it is what I'm stuck on. | 17:27 |
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| hartsocks | I think I've heard other people with the same/similar ideas so… it's something to talk about. | 17:28 |
| garyk | thats just an implementation detail :) | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | In theory, theory and practice are the same… in practice... | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:28 |
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| hartsocks | So the decision is how to create the inventory filter to do the job. Ideally you would implement this in such a way you could easily change your mind about that implementation detail later. | 17:29 |
| garyk | if it compiles on paper then it will work. or in our case, if it interprets on paper | 17:29 |
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| hartsocks | ;-) | 17:29 |
| hartsocks | All my best work is imaginary. | 17:30 |
| hartsocks | I really wish I was going to Hong Kong … *sigh* | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | Anyway. | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | Just wanted it on y'alls list if it made sense. | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | There's one more BP I was browsing and found ... | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/auto-vm-discovery-on-hypervisor | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | This isn't VMware API specific… but it runs counter to some of the assumptions we made in our driver construction. | 17:32 |
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| hartsocks | It's a VM discovery BP. | 17:32 |
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| hartsocks | So that when you turn on OpenStack … VMs currently on the … say vCenter … show up in your nova list. | 17:33 |
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| hartsocks | Just something to watch for. | 17:33 |
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| dansmith | hartsocks: I don't think that will ever fly, fwiw | 17:34 |
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| dansmith | hartsocks: so if you're concerned about it, you're "doing it right" IMHO :) | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | I'm actually relieved to hear you say that. | 17:34 |
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| hartsocks | groovy :-) | 17:35 |
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| hartsocks | I'll try to do my best "ghost in the machine" impression for you during the conference if anyone needs it. | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | Any other BP people want to chat about here before HK? | 17:36 |
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| garyk | at the moment i have two in review | 17:36 |
| garyk | 1. start of the implementaion for the image caching | 17:36 |
| garyk | 2. vm diagnostics (parity with other drivers) | 17:37 |
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| hartsocks | nice. I've seen a lot of email flying around on image caching… is there anything in BP, etherpads, or public ML? | 17:37 |
| garyk | i hope that by the end of the week there will be a first draft of the actual cache aging (i am debugging and writing unit tests) | 17:37 |
| hartsocks | *very* nice. | 17:38 |
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| garyk | i'll hopefully get a wiki out soon | 17:38 |
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| garyk | it will just fit into the generic driver model | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | okay, it would be good to have public discussion of these things. | 17:38 |
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| hartsocks | The vm diagnostics work is in a BP? or is it a bug? | 17:39 |
| garyk | vm diagnostics is a bp. it was missing functionality in the driver | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | link? | 17:40 |
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| rgerganov | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-vm-diagnostics | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | okay, I've seen that. | 17:41 |
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| hartsocks | Any bugs we need to talk about? | 17:41 |
| hartsocks | #topic bugs | 17:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:41 | |
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| hartsocks | BTW: I didn't cut off anyone who had a BP that they wanted to bring up did I? | 17:42 |
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| hartsocks | Any bugs burning a hole in someone's cloud? | 17:42 |
| garyk | from the tags there are 46 vmware bugs. | 17:43 |
| garyk | it would be nice if we could make a dent in that and help bring down the amount of nova bugs | 17:43 |
| garyk | some are in progress https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=vmware (which we need to get reviews) | 17:44 |
| garyk | i do not know why the query shows commited one too ;) | 17:44 |
| rgerganov | If I want to take a bug I should be looking for status CONFIRMED which is not assigned, right? | 17:45 |
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| hartsocks | I've been holding off on the weekly review email because I figure everyone is probably focused on the summit. I'll start that up again the week of November 11th | 17:45 |
| garyk | part of our triage responsibilities are to confirm the bugs | 17:45 |
| rgerganov | ok, I see | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | yep. So I have a query... | 17:45 |
| hartsocks | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=vmware+&field.status%3Alist=NEW | 17:46 |
| vuil | feel free to talk to person assigned to the bug if you are interested in taking over too. | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | To find new bugs that haven't been confirmed. | 17:46 |
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| hartsocks | Sometimes confirming a bug is a lot of work. | 17:46 |
| tjones | i've not been able to repo https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1240355 | 17:47 |
| tjones | (which is why it is not confirmed) | 17:47 |
| hartsocks | Yeah. I have a feeling that this break happens in special conditions. | 17:47 |
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| hartsocks | I can try and look at it, but so far only Gary's said he's seen it before. | 17:48 |
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| hartsocks | #action shawn follow up on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1240355 | 17:49 |
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| hartsocks | Any other bugs or is it time for open discussion? | 17:50 |
| hartsocks | #topic open discussion | 17:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:51 | |
| hartsocks | I have a proposal for Hong Kong... | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | OpenSnack | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | You would have these informal snack times … | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | that's all I got. | 17:51 |
| hartsocks | Sound good? | 17:51 |
| tjones | ha ha | 17:52 |
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| hartsocks | Well, with that… we'll plan on resuming on November 13th. | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | Unless someone really wants to hold the meeting during the summit. | 17:53 |
| tjones | what time is it in HK now? | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | Also, a reminder that there's this pesky day-light-savings-time in parts of the world… | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | This slot is UTC which has no DLS. | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | um.. | 17:54 |
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| hartsocks | 2am | 17:54 |
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| hartsocks | You don't want to meet at 2am? | 17:55 |
| rgerganov | :) | 17:55 |
| hartsocks | What?!? | 17:55 |
| tjones | not even a little | 17:55 |
| tjones | :-D | 17:55 |
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| hartsocks | okay folks, have fun at your summit. Us internet ghosts will scare up our own fun while you're out. | 17:56 |
| vuil | I know you will be up at 2am, shawn. Probably not by choice | 17:56 |
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| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:56 |
| hartsocks | yep. | 17:56 |
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| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 17:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 30 17:56:53 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-10-30-17.02.html | 17:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-10-30-17.02.txt | 17:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-10-30-17.02.log.html | 17:57 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Neutron FWaaS folks here? | 17:59 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: Hi | 18:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | hi SridarK | 18:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | lets give a couple of mins, and then we can get started | 18:00 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok lets get started | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #startmeeting Networking FWaaS | 18:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 30 18:03:32 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas' | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | today's meeting is also in preparation for the Icehouse summit discussions/sessions | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #info etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-neutron-fwaas | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Icehouse Summit session | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse Summit session (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:04 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #info link: http://icehousedesignsummit.sched.org/event/c8bf224a93d4e689ee91ffd958ae56a8 | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #info date/time: Tuesday, Nov 5th, 2:50 PM | 18:04 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | btw, no FWaaS meeting in the next week or the week after (since we won't be having Neutron team meetings either), but we will start again in the following week | 18:05 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | currently we are the first services' session in the Neutron agenda | 18:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | hope we can set a good stage ;-) | 18:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | any issues for anyone with the session time? | 18:06 |
| SridarK | except for jet lag should be good :-) | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: :-) | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: get a pillow :-P | 18:07 |
| SridarK | :-) | 18:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok so on to the next topic | 18:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic zones | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "zones (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:07 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-zones-api | 18:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we had more discussions on this and more input from folks | 18:07 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | zones will be initially used in the source and/or destination arguments for a rule (this will | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | be later extended to firewall-rule-sets when they are defined) | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | most people seem to be in agreement with the current proposal | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | note that we do not aim to perform validation on the composition of ports in the zone (if | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | there are suggestions, please let us know) since different vendors seem to want to interpret differently | 18:08 |
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| SridarK | I think we are getting to some convergence may not be perfect for all but is a good start | 18:09 |
| SridarK | and folks seem to be in general agreement which is good | 18:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: right, i was just going to say you are looking at this feature closely, right? | 18:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | in terms of driving it | 18:09 |
| SridarK | yes will do Sumit | 18:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | there is a pending item here to converge on the trunk port to constituent sub-interface ports mapping | 18:10 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the discussion beyounn started | 18:10 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i don't believe we are set on this yet, right? | 18:10 |
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| SridarK | yes i think we can discuss more in HK with some of the proposals on trunk ports | 18:11 |
| SridarK | with all folks being there | 18:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #action SridarK beyounn SumitNaiksatam to followup with existing blueprint owners and if required, file a new blueprint, if new blueprint, bring it up for discussion during FWaaS slot in the summit | 18:11 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | more thoughts on zones? | 18:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | is Kaiwei here? | 18:11 |
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| Kaiwei | SumitNaiksatam: I'm here | 18:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | hi Kaiwei | 18:12 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: did the email exchange on the mailing list regarding zones satisfy your concerns? | 18:13 |
| Kaiwei | yes, it does | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: ok good | 18:13 |
| Kaiwei | I'm fine using port, though I prefer network/subnet uuid :) | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: i see your point | 18:13 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: we can brainstorming on this a little more until the summit | 18:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i don't think we plan any implementation on it at least until then | 18:14 |
| Kaiwei | sure | 18:14 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK RajeshMohan beyounn: anything else on zones? | 18:14 |
| SridarK | I am fine | 18:15 |
| beyounn | sorry, I was late | 18:15 |
| beyounn | catching up now | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | seems like others are in silent agreement :-) | 18:15 |
| SridarK | we can refine with more discussion at HK | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: np | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok next topic then | 18:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Service Insertion for Firewall | 18:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Service Insertion for Firewall (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:17 | |
| beyounn | ok, so far so good | 18:17 |
| beyounn | :-) | 18:17 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: ok | 18:17 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-service-insertion | 18:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i just created this bp | 18:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pretty much depends on the other services' insertion and chaining dicussion | 18:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | with this bp we can do router level insertion | 18:18 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: hi, we are discussing service insertion for firewall | 18:19 |
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| garyduan | Sorry, I am late | 18:20 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: np | 18:20 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: so the insertion will be at the level of a router and the zone members will be on top of that still as part of the rule | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yes, thats the current thinking | 18:20 |
| SridarK | ok | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: insertion should be able to setup the datapath correctly | 18:20 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: zones will be used to interpret the rules | 18:21 |
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| SridarK | yes makes sense | 18:21 |
| beyounn | Sumit, how about BIW case? | 18:21 |
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| beyounn | For that we don't need router right? | 18:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: you mean insertion for BITW? | 18:22 |
| beyounn | yes | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: no router for that | 18:22 |
| beyounn | ok | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: the insertion context will be different for that (it will be a subnet) | 18:22 |
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| garyduan | If router does specified, the fwaas driver should understand the insertion context and only load the specified routers | 18:22 |
| beyounn | ok | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: i was talking about the reference implementation | 18:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: that is correct | 18:22 |
| garyduan | ok. thinking of service framework integration | 18:23 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: we have different agenda item for service type integration | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: unless you have something to discuss in the insertion context | 18:24 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: per the latest proposal we don't modify the existing service type framework at all | 18:24 |
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| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: "don't modify", can you elaborate? | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: we will use the existing service type/provider framework mostly as is | 18:25 |
| garyduan | yes. | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: the proposed insertion context will be a separate entity | 18:26 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: Yes. I was just thinking the behavior of fwaas driver. | 18:26 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: shouldn't have any impact on insertion | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: the plugin will have to interpret the insertion context, and convey the router id to the agent/driver | 18:27 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: yes. | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: so we will have to make changes to the agent and driver as well (reference implementation) to account for this | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: yes, driver will change | 18:28 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: agent need some change | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: yes | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: hopefully changes will not be too much | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: perhaps changes are more for interpreting zone | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we will see | 18:28 |
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| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: I will think about it | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | anything more on insertion? | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok moving on | 18:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Address Objects | 18:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Address Objects (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:29 | |
| pcm_ | SumitNaiksatam: Should I be able to access the spec for BP link for FWaaS service insertion? (I can't) | 18:29 |
| * pcm_ VPNaaS team member lurking | 18:29 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #undo | 18:29 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x39cca10> | 18:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pcm_: hi, of course everyone is welcome :-) | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pcm_: no formal spec document yet | 18:30 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | pcm_: however the dependent blueprint captures a lot of details | 18:30 |
| SumitNaiksatam | pcm_: the one regarding insertion and chaining | 18:30 |
| pcm_ | SumitNaiksatam: Ah. Accounts for access denied :) | 18:30 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | pcm_: yes, because there is no spec :-) | 18:31 |
| pcm_ | SumitNaiksatam: np. Will look at the BP. | 18:31 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | pcm_: ok, we can discuss offline if you have followup questions | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Address Objects | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Address Objects (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:31 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-address-objects | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we will first target static IP objects | 18:32 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Brian does not seem to be here | 18:32 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Service Objects | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Service Objects (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:33 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-customized-service | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | proposal is to capture protocol, port, icml type and code, and timeout | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn has the blueprint | 18:33 |
| beyounn | Sumit, should I mark the approver to you? | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn yes | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: anything more to discuss beyond what we have already? | 18:34 |
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| beyounn | If no one has question , then let;s move on | 18:34 |
| Kaiwei | I think in last week's meeting we were only talking about what is required | 18:34 |
| Kaiwei | and what is optional | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: ok | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: can you elaborate? | 18:34 |
| beyounn | yes, | 18:34 |
| beyounn | I think we have agreed that timeout is optional | 18:35 |
| beyounn | I also think to make protocol/ports to be must to have field | 18:35 |
| beyounn | but to provide notion "ANY" | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: ok | 18:35 |
| beyounn | I think this can cover most of cases | 18:35 |
| Kaiwei | I think protocol/port should be optional, and we should obsolete "protocol" attribute in current rule model | 18:35 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: that could be one approach | 18:36 |
| Kaiwei | it doesn't make sense to have protocol in service object and in rule level.... | 18:36 |
| beyounn | Kaiwei, | 18:36 |
| beyounn | we should not force people to only go one way | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: thats right, that was the thinking | 18:37 |
| beyounn | User should be able to decide whether to use service object | 18:37 |
| beyounn | or not | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: we want to let the users be able to define iptables type of rules | 18:37 |
| RajeshMohan | Sumit, just joined. Sorry for joining late. | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: that will be the basic rule (sort of core definition) | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: hi, np | 18:37 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: the service object will be an extension to the basic rule definition | 18:38 |
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| beyounn | Sumit:+1 | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: sorry did not mean to cut you | 18:38 |
| beyounn | no, not at all | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: thoughts? | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | or for that matter, others as well? | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we don't have to decide it here | 18:39 |
| beyounn | Kaiwei,if you want you can post the idea to BP directly | 18:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: thats a good suggestion | 18:40 |
| RajeshMohan | If we have contradicitng values in service object and rule, then we have to report error? | 18:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: good point | 18:40 |
| Kaiwei | I believe we can provide all flexibility to users if we want, but having two ways (or multiple ways) of configuring one field doesn't seems to be a good approach | 18:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | perhaps that is Kaiwei's concern as well | 18:40 |
| RajeshMohan | yes - I was trying to undersand where Kaiwei is coming from as well | 18:41 |
| Kaiwei | yeah, especially they can conflict with each other | 18:41 |
| beyounn | My thoughts is, you can not have both service or rule level proto/port defined at the same time | 18:41 |
| beyounn | I only thought if you defined a service, you need to have proto/port define | 18:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei RajeshMohan we will need to set some priority order | 18:41 |
| beyounn | otherwise, the serivce object is worng | 18:42 |
| RajeshMohan | ok | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | also keep in mind that the service definition we are talking about is a service "object" | 18:42 |
| beyounn | I will try to squze group concept | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | as a user it seems to be a little cumbersome to me to have to create an object if i just want to create a simple rule | 18:42 |
| beyounn | but not sure if I will have time | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok discussion on to the blueprint | 18:43 |
| garyduan | typically service definition should contain protocol, tcp:80 defines HTTP, (not considering AppID for now) | 18:43 |
| beyounn | I will update the BP | 18:43 |
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| Kaiwei | one way to simplify this is to provide "inline" service-object that can be specified in the rule directly, without explicitly creating a service-object.... | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: agreed | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: cli, for example, can hide the object creation | 18:44 |
| garyduan | Kaiwei: I think it's the current way | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Kaiwei: however from an api perspective we are still creating a new object | 18:44 |
| beyounn | but I also hope we can reuse service object | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: good point | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: yes | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | beyounn: that would be the goal | 18:45 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | lets first tackle as to what goes into the service (mandatory and optional) and then think about if want to change the existing rule | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rule defintion | 18:45 |
| beyounn | ok | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | discussion on to the blueprint/mail list | 18:45 |
| Kaiwei | ok | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic service_type framework | 18:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "service_type framework (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:46 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/fwaas-service-types-integration | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i believe garyduan is on this | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: anything to discuss? | 18:46 |
| RajeshMohan | SumitNaiksatam: Will this allow to write a plugin-driver? | 18:47 |
| garyduan | Not much, we talked about it in insertion context | 18:47 |
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| garyduan | RajeshMohan: plugin-driver is what I am thinking | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: you can write that today as well, but this will allow you to create firewalls using different drviers | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: as of today, you can configure exactly one driver and all firewalls are created using that | 18:48 |
| garyduan | provider is set that firewall level | 18:48 |
| garyduan | 'at' firewall level | 18:48 |
| RajeshMohan | Thanks Sumit, Gary. | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: with this change, you can decide via the API as to which "provider" you want for a particular firewall | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | provider maps to a driver | 18:49 |
| RajeshMohan | Good. Thanks. | 18:49 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: okay, i guess nothing new to discuss, we are going to do something similar to LBaaS and VPNaaS | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic revisit firewall to firewall_policy association | 18:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "revisit firewall to firewall_policy association (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:49 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-fwaas-explicit-commit | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | most vendors seem to think that the current implementation in the patch is good and works for them | 18:50 |
| RajeshMohan | SumitNaiksatam: +1 | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | by works i mean, the like the semantics | 18:50 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: okay | 18:50 |
| SridarK | SumitNaiksatam: same here +1 | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: okay | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | however some members in the neutron core team have concerns | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so i guess we will bring this up in the summit session | 18:51 |
| garyduan | one question | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: please | 18:51 |
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| garyduan | if admin creates a firewall first | 18:51 |
| garyduan | then create rules and policy | 18:52 |
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| garyduan | at this moment, policy is not associated with firewall yet | 18:52 |
| garyduan | now, to apply the policy to firewall | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yeah | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | two step | 18:53 |
| garyduan | 1.assoicate firewall to the policy, 2. commit | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: yeah | 18:53 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | should it be different? | 18:53 |
| garyduan | what I should see is, firewall is created with another policy, | 18:53 |
| garyduan | to associated with the new policy | 18:53 |
| garyduan | admin has to, 1. update firewall, 2. commit | 18:54 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: when you create firewall without policy, there is default policy to deny all traffic | 18:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: are you suggesting it should be one step? | 18:55 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: just try to confirm, always two steps | 18:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: yeah, thats the current proposal | 18:55 |
| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: create policy, create firewall with policy, commit | 18:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay, i want to have time for open discussion for anything that we may have missed, and that we should bring up at the summit | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | garyduan: lets take offline | 18:56 |
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| garyduan | SumitNaiksatam: ok | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Open Discussion | 18:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)" | 18:56 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | so have we missed anything in the past three weeks of discussion that is critical to someone? | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | at this point we will mostly bring up the items discussed today at the summit | 18:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | since they have owers | 18:57 |
| RajeshMohan | Zones and Commit are critical to us. Is Zones assigned to someone? | 18:58 |
| RajeshMohan | I would think it will have more than one BP | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: yes | 18:58 |
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| RajeshMohan | SumitNaiksatam: Thanks | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | well by owners i meant, at least some initial interest | 18:59 |
| SridarK | RajeshMohan: i will pick up work on zones | 18:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we can decide how we can split work based on the interest and needs | 18:59 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | please note that, as a team we will also need to do tempest work | 18:59 |
| RajeshMohan | SridarK: Thanks Sridar. | 18:59 |
| SridarK | of course we all work together | 19:00 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | SridarK: yeah, like last time | 19:00 |
| SridarK | yes :-) | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | I think we are more hands now | 19:00 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | so hopefully it will be better | 19:00 |
| SridarK | +1 | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | alright folks, thanks much for attending this | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | follow up discussions over emails | 19:00 |
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| SridarK | thanks and see u all at HK | 19:01 |
| RajeshMohan | SumitNaiksatam: Service insertion is obviously important but I did not bring it up as I assumed that is different discussion | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we can huddle together after the summit session | 19:01 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | RajeshMohan: thanks, yes absolutely | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i will let you know date/time about huddle in HK | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Huddle in HK, i like that :-P | 19:01 |
| RajeshMohan | SumitNaiksatam: Thanks. See you all in HK. | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | alright, thanks all | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | bfn! | 19:02 |
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| SridarK | bye | 19:02 |
| beyounn | Bye | 19:02 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | #endmeeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 30 19:02:25 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-10-30-18.03.html | 19:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-10-30-18.03.txt | 19:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_fwaas/2013/networking_fwaas.2013-10-30-18.03.log.html | 19:02 |
| notreallymyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 30 19:02:39 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notreallymyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:02 |
| notreallymyname | welcome to the swift team meeting today | 19:03 |
| notreallymyname | who's here? | 19:03 |
| torgomatic | yo | 19:03 |
| peluse | howdy | 19:03 |
| portante | o/ | 19:03 |
| zaitcev | o/ | 19:03 |
| * clayg isn't really here | 19:03 | |
| * notreallymyname isn't either | 19:03 | |
| notreallymyname | agenda items https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 19:03 |
| notreallymyname | not much for me to bring up this week | 19:03 |
| acoles | here | 19:03 |
| notreallymyname | next week is the HK summit | 19:04 |
| notreallymyname | should be fun | 19:04 |
| lincolnt | Hi, Lincoln Thomas, HP, 1st time here, leading design session on Metadata Search in HK | 19:04 |
| notreallymyname | lincolnt: great. looking forward to hearing from you next week | 19:04 |
| lincolnt | thx | 19:04 |
| notreallymyname | as for day-to-day stuff, I wanted to bring up the swift-bench separation | 19:04 |
| portante | notreallymyname is usually known as notmyname, which is not his name | 19:04 |
| swifterdarrell | o/ | 19:05 |
| notreallymyname | ah yes | 19:05 |
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| notreallymyname | I'm notmyname, but my bouncer is not working (or the guest wifi I'm on...) | 19:05 |
| keving1 | here | 19:05 |
| notreallymyname | #topic swift-bench separation | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "swift-bench separation (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:05 | |
| notreallymyname | it's pretty much ready to go | 19:05 |
| notreallymyname | the goals here are (among other things) to remore the dependency of swift on python-swiftclient | 19:05 |
| clayg | remore is a thing | 19:06 |
| notreallymyname | so we need to make sure the rest of swift-bench is good to go and then extract it from swift itself | 19:06 |
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| portante | so the copy has been done, no other changes made to the swift-bench code on the swift repo | 19:06 |
| portante | so the next thing to do is git rm the tree and change the requirements.txt file/ | 19:07 |
| portante | ? | 19:07 |
| swifterdarrell | notreallymyname: last I checked (@ hackathon), the swift-bench repo needed a bit of work: setup.py, (pbr ANYONE?!), Changelog, etc, etc | 19:07 |
| notreallymyname | right (sorry, had someone ask aquestion) | 19:07 |
| notreallymyname | ya, swift-bench needs basic stuff like the testrunner, a readme, etc | 19:07 |
| notreallymyname | setup.py | 19:07 |
| notreallymyname | homefully not pbr ;-) | 19:07 |
| notreallymyname | so we need someone to do it | 19:08 |
| * zaitcev hides | 19:08 | |
| notreallymyname | should take a day or two, mostly boilerplate stuff | 19:08 |
| peluse | sounds so exciting | 19:08 |
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| notreallymyname | I won't be able to do it until after hong kong at the earliest | 19:08 |
| notreallymyname | I guess we don't need a volunteer right now, but it's a thing that needs doing | 19:09 |
| notreallymyname | moving on | 19:09 |
| notreallymyname | #topic EC/policy status | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "EC/policy status (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:09 | |
| notreallymyname | torgomatic: peluse: keving1: any updates? | 19:09 |
| peluse | so I've got one slide at the "Intel and OpenStack" session in HK covering EC - just FYI for everyone | 19:09 |
| notreallymyname | cool | 19:10 |
| peluse | ..and on the code front just waiting on you torgotmatic to review a few things :) | 19:10 |
| torgomatic | sorry, I've been busy :| | 19:10 |
| peluse | notmyname - do we want to do an impromptu polciies demo of any kind? | 19:10 |
| torgomatic | too many things going on at once, and I don't multitask particularly well | 19:10 |
| notreallymyname | I've got a tech session on it, and I'd like to do a high-level demo (ie two policies in one cluster, http only, no replication etc) | 19:10 |
| notreallymyname | peluse: yes | 19:10 |
| peluse | nice cross typing | 19:10 |
| keving1 | @togomatic nothing major… pyeclib is up on pypi | 19:10 |
| peluse | shall we jsut coordinate there? | 19:10 |
| notreallymyname | peluse: or online before then :-) | 19:10 |
| peluse | OK, lets sync up today or tomorrow then on the demo | 19:11 |
| notreallymyname | peluse: tomorrow for me. I'm at a workshop all day | 19:11 |
| peluse | torgomatic - back to your comment. no huge hurry but I am holding off an onay more work expanding on the poolcieis until you take a quick look at the two patches I ahve up there | 19:11 |
| notreallymyname | ok | 19:11 |
| peluse | policies that is | 19:11 |
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| notreallymyname | #topic 410 response | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "410 response (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:12 | |
| notreallymyname | torgomatic: tag | 19:12 |
| torgomatic | so the question here is regarding a patch that would make some account GET/HEAD requests respond w/410 | 19:12 |
| torgomatic | right now, there's a bug where a deleted-but-not-reclaimed account yields 204 responses on GET/HEAD requests | 19:12 |
| torgomatic | but you can't PUT/POST to it | 19:13 |
| notreallymyname | torgomatic: can you see what the old behavior was and leave that as a comment in gerrit? | 19:13 |
| portante | meaning, the account is marked as being created | 19:13 |
| portante | but that created account can't be used | 19:13 |
| torgomatic | notreallymyname: yes, I can do a little code archaeology | 19:13 |
| portante | does it get reclaimed too? | 19:13 |
| notreallymyname | portante: 204 -- no content | 19:13 |
| notreallymyname | torgomatic: thanks | 19:13 |
| torgomatic | oh, also this only happens when account autocreate is on | 19:13 |
| peluse | is this a reported bug? | 19:14 |
| portante | but does it change the account so that it is actually created again? | 19:14 |
| torgomatic | portante: I don't think so | 19:14 |
| portante | it seems that autocreate on should create the account and not return a 410 | 19:14 |
| portante | seems counter to the notion of auto-create, no? | 19:14 |
| notreallymyname | why did we add the autocreate magic responses? ;-) | 19:14 |
| portante | or am I missing something else about the nature of the API? | 19:15 |
| torgomatic | there's an interval after an account is deleted in which it cannot be recreated | 19:15 |
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| torgomatic | that's to let the reaper do its job | 19:15 |
| portante | and you are saying that is true today before this change | 19:15 |
| torgomatic | accounts are weird in that you can delete them when nonempty | 19:15 |
| portante | oh | 19:15 |
| torgomatic | portante: that's always been true AFAIK | 19:15 |
| notreallymyname | "you" being a cluster operator (ie reseller admin) | 19:15 |
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| torgomatic | anyway, I can investigate and see what the behavior was before the fake-account-listing stuff happened | 19:16 |
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| portante | so by adding the 410 response behavior, we are acknowledging what is actually happening on the backend | 19:16 |
| notreallymyname | portante: ya | 19:17 |
| torgomatic | I just want to give people a heads-up that this might be happening, so if you have any insight or opinions, go add yourself as a watcher on that review | 19:17 |
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| torgomatic | because we don't currently emit 410 responses, but we might be about to start | 19:17 |
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| notreallymyname | but clients will properly respond to classes of responses like they should, right? ;-) | 19:17 |
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| torgomatic | and that's worth bringing up at a meeting so interested parties can go look, and uninterested parties can ignore it :) | 19:18 |
| notreallymyname | indeed. thanks for doing so | 19:18 |
| portante | can you post the review id here? | 19:18 |
| notreallymyname | anything else on that for today (ie until we know the history) | 19:18 |
| torgomatic | notreallymyname: well, existing behavior is 204 on HEAD plus 401 (403?) on PUT/POST, so that's clearly wrong and has to be fixed | 19:18 |
| portante | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54449/ | 19:18 |
| * torgomatic has nothing else | 19:18 | |
| notreallymyname | yes | 19:18 |
| portante | done | 19:18 |
| notreallymyname | portante: and the author is otherjon in #openstack-swift | 19:19 |
| notreallymyname | #topic open discussion | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:19 | |
| * notreallymyname wants to get to lunch | 19:19 | |
| notreallymyname | what else is going on? | 19:19 |
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| notreallymyname | anything needing discussion or about HK next week? | 19:19 |
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| portante | when is the next target for a swift release? | 19:20 |
| portante | dec or jan? | 19:20 |
| notreallymyname | FWIW, there were about 60 new swift "clusters" deployed this morning at the workshop | 19:20 |
| portante | nice | 19:20 |
| portante | and what are we targetting for that release? | 19:20 |
| notreallymyname | portante: we don't do time-based releases. it would make sense to me to release after swift-bench is separated and to check with the other features under dev | 19:21 |
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| notreallymyname | portante: since 1.10 I haven't had a chance to look, but I'd like to see the diskfile stuff cleaned up before a release (in an ideal world) | 19:21 |
| portante | redhat would like to see the account and container server API refactoring land so that we can complete the gluster layering on supported APIs | 19:21 |
| notreallymyname | portante: that would be grounds for a release IMO | 19:21 |
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| notreallymyname | kk | 19:22 |
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| portante | zaitcev is working through those changes, so we'd like to get eyes on them | 19:22 |
| portante | notreallymyname: okay, thanks | 19:22 |
| notreallymyname | anything else? | 19:22 |
| peluse | not from my end | 19:22 |
| portante | nothing here | 19:22 |
| torgomatic | nope | 19:23 |
| notreallymyname | ok, have a good rest of the day. thanks for coming | 19:23 |
| notreallymyname | #endmeeting | 19:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:23 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 30 19:23:22 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:23 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-10-30-19.02.html | 19:23 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-10-30-19.02.txt | 19:23 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-10-30-19.02.log.html | 19:23 |
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| notreallymyname | and don't read the news if you want to stay happy about the state of the internet | 19:23 |
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| stevebaker | #startmeeting heat | 19:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 30 19:59:39 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 19:59 |
| stevebaker | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| asalkeld | o/ | 20:00 |
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| shardy | o/ | 20:00 |
| spzala | Hi | 20:00 |
| jpeeler | hi | 20:00 |
| jasond | o/ | 20:00 |
| lifeless | :q | 20:00 |
| MikeSpreitzer | lurking briefly | 20:00 |
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| tspatzier | hi all | 20:00 |
| vijendar | hi | 20:00 |
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| stevebaker | no actions from last week, only one agenda item, this might be a short one | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda | 20:01 |
| zaneb | o/ | 20:01 |
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| kebray | hello | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | #topic Summit preperation | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit preperation (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| randallburt | o/ | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | speling? | 20:01 |
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| topol | o/ | 20:02 |
| zaneb | preparation | 20:02 |
| m4dcoder | o/ | 20:02 |
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| stevebaker | so this IBM preso which was on 5:20 thurs is now 3:10 friday http://openstacksummitnovember2013.sched.org/event/d021c726f6fbe4d1fc7ade0a72a6ae2a#.UnFlvnUW3qU | 20:02 |
| lakshminarayanan | yes | 20:02 |
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| stevebaker | so now we can all go and heckle ;) | 20:02 |
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| tspatzier | looking forward to see you all there :-) | 20:03 |
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| lakshminarayanan | We would love to have you all and your questions | 20:03 |
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| stevebaker | design schedule has been published http://icehousedesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/heat | 20:03 |
| sdake_ | o/ | 20:03 |
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| zaneb | ugh, now it's up against the OpenShift presentation | 20:03 |
| timductive | o/ | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | From now on we can be considering what to talk about in our placeholder session http://icehousedesignsummit.sched.org/event/4ef1f2f4238851d490f0e14c58423189#.UnFmGXUW3qU | 20:04 |
| topol | can I be the guy in the back of the room saying just finalize this stuff so we can go grow the heat/HOT ecosystem? :-) | 20:04 |
| zaneb | that's unfortunate because stuff we learn at the IBM one is going to be directly useful for the OpenShift one | 20:04 |
| randallburt | walkie talkies? | 20:04 |
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| stevebaker | zaneb: that is unfortunate, but not as bad as a clashing design session | 20:05 |
| zaneb | true | 20:05 |
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| stevebaker | anything else summit related that anybody wants to raise? | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | if we have time user-loging | 20:06 |
| zaneb | but there's like two talks about Heat in the whole (non-Design) Summit... and they're on at the same time | 20:06 |
| spzala | since heat design sessions are not before Thursday, what's the best way to find heat team - find them? twitter? | 20:07 |
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| zaneb | spzala: yeah, I was going to bring that up | 20:07 |
| zaneb | how about we all meet on Tuesday at some point? | 20:07 |
| spzala | zaneb: cool | 20:07 |
| lakshminarayanan | +1 to meet on tues | 20:08 |
| zaneb | a lot of the important discussions happen on the sidelines | 20:08 |
| zaneb | no point waiting until thursday | 20:08 |
| kebray | anyone up for a sideline conversation with Solum folks? I may be able to set that up. | 20:08 |
| tspatzier | and at the parties in the evening ;-) | 20:08 |
| tspatzier | +1 kebray | 20:08 |
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| stevebaker | lakshminarayanan, zaneb, if you want to negotiate another schedule change then you can email pete@FNTECH.COM, cc lauren@openstack.org | 20:08 |
| zaneb | kebray: +1 | 20:08 |
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| spzala | kebray: yes, I am up | 20:09 |
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| lakshminarayanan | stevebaker: thanks for suggestion. I think we are open for another change. | 20:09 |
| kebray | k. I'll try to set something up. | 20:09 |
| lakshminarayanan | zaneb: do you have another time slot in mind? | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | lakshminarayanan: OK, I'll leave it to you | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | yeah, kebray I am interested too | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | lakshminarayanan: it looks like there are other slots on friday with only 3 presentations | 20:10 |
| lakshminarayanan | kebray: I am also interested in meeting with Solum folks. | 20:10 |
| lakshminarayanan | kebray +1 | 20:10 |
| zaneb | lakshminarayanan: no particular one, so long as it doesn't clash with the design summit sessions | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | lakshminarayanan: 11:50, 17:00 | 20:10 |
| shardy | Doh, I've just noticed Healing and Convergence clashes with a Tempest session prompted by a patch I submitted and was planning to attend :( | 20:10 |
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| tspatzier | so if possible, I would like the earlier slot and not let it slip towards the end of the summit | 20:11 |
| sdake | need better scheduling system imo :) | 20:11 |
| asalkeld | need time machine | 20:11 |
| lakshminarayanan | stevebaker tsaptzier: I agree 11:50 would be better | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | shardy: I could swap convergence with something else | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | tspatzier, friday == everyone sleeping | 20:12 |
| zaneb | lakshminarayanan: I'll leave it to up you, but 11:50 sounds good to me | 20:12 |
| stevebaker | shardy: maybe swap convergence with abandon/adopt at 2:40 | 20:12 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: Ideally I'd rather not miss any Heat sessions, I'll speak to the Tempest PTL and see if there's any chance of them swapping their sessions around | 20:13 |
| tspatzier | asalkeld, then we have to be as entertaining as possible to keep people awake. Maybe we threaten to ask the audience questions. | 20:13 |
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| * radix is here finally | 20:14 | |
| lakshminarayanan | zaneb: I will check with others and will email | 20:14 |
| zaneb | lakshminarayanan: thanks, much appreciated :) | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | shardy: tempest has lots of slots on wed and fri, chances are they can swap | 20:14 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: yeah was thinking it may be possible as there's plenty of slots which don't overlap with Heat | 20:15 |
| stevebaker | when should we meet on tuesday? lunch? | 20:15 |
| tspatzier | lakshminarayanan, 11:50 would be ok with me. So will you email pete and lauren? | 20:15 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: either at lunch or right after the IBM keynote imo | 20:16 |
| lakshminarayanan | tsaptzier: yes I can email pete and lauren. | 20:16 |
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| randallburt | lunch sounds good | 20:16 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: but a working lunch sounds | 20:16 |
| zaneb | good | 20:16 |
| randallburt | agreed | 20:17 |
| kebray | should I invite the solum folks to lunch too, or should that be a separate meet-and-greet? | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | ok, lets announce on the ML and #heat on the day | 20:17 |
| randallburt | kebray: separate, IMO | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | #topic open discussion | 20:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:18 | |
| shardy | So the 63 character thing.. | 20:18 |
| zaneb | maybe we can come up with a plan at lunch on Tuesday for more sideline meetings throughout the week | 20:18 |
| stevebaker | I don't have anything that can't continue on the ML or IRL | 20:18 |
| shardy | Several folks have complained about the hard-limit, do folks have any strong opinions about me proposing an alternative, one of: | 20:18 |
| sdake | while your at it beat zookeeper into submission for me pls :) | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, very little on tuesday | 20:19 |
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| shardy | squash the names into something semi-readable, or just name all the instances heat-<resource short random id> | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | shardy: we just need to do the rest of the fix, which shortens any arbitrary physical name to be under the limit of that resource type | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | so +1 to, just make tuesday an unoffical heat day | 20:19 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Yeah, thats what I was planning, but an even easier approach is just to use the existing resource unique/random ID and a fixed prefix | 20:20 |
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| zaneb | shardy: how about if we just shorten the names of nested stacks | 20:21 |
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| zaneb | shardy: by removing the parent stack name, for example | 20:21 |
| shardy | zaneb: humm, yup that's not a bad idea | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | shardy: fixed prefix looses a lot of useful context, we could do better than that - it would still be easy-ish | 20:21 |
| zaneb | it's multiple levels of nested stack that really drive things out of control | 20:22 |
| shardy | I'll raise a bug and take a look tomorrow, unless anyone beats me to it overnight ;) | 20:22 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: I was thinking of a shortening algorithm which does something like | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | mystack-theresource-anestedstack-fooserver-kjho978as | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | shortens to: | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | my-th-an-fo-kjho978as | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | shardy: I'm fairly certain a bug already exists | 20:23 |
| zaneb | sounds like a recipe for accidental profanity :D | 20:23 |
| shardy | Just dropping everything except the immediately owning stack will be much more readable | 20:24 |
| shardy | stevebaker: didn't we close that as part of the Havana release? | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: challenge accepted! | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | shardy: I think another was raised for this issue | 20:24 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Ah, k, must've missed that | 20:24 |
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| shardy | been distracted beating keystone stuff into shape | 20:25 |
| kebray | I have one topic for open discussion: template catalog functionality, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/heat-template-repo ... | 20:25 |
| kebray | I'd like to offer to staff resources to implement this for Icehouse.. if, the community will have it in the Heat source tree. | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | shardy: even with dropping parent stacks, it is not hard to exceed 63 with stackname + resourcename + random. A shortening strategy could work with any physical name | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | kebray, hasn't marono claimed that now;) | 20:26 |
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| kebray | asalkeld: They claimed the world, IMO, in that statement. PaaS and SaaS and market place. | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | murano | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | someone is getting excited | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | kebray: lets talk about this in person. It might best be done with a horizon UI over solum | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | kebray, +1 | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | kebray, I know melbourne university what that too | 20:28 |
| randallburt | lol, glad solum is the new dumping ground | 20:28 |
| kebray | stevebaker happy to talk in person, or by whatever means. I've thought a lot about this, and have reasons I believe Horizon should consume the catalog service via an API instead of implement it. | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | takes the heat off us ;) | 20:28 |
| kebray | I want to reuse that service across non Horizon UIs. | 20:28 |
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| kebray | ... would certainly build it so Horizon can consume it though :-) | 20:29 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: indeed | 20:29 |
| tspatzier | kebray, I think that would also be a good place for provider templates to live | 20:29 |
| zaneb | kebray: why not just bung them in swift? what else is there for the service to do? | 20:29 |
| asalkeld | I think we need an independent catalog/sharing system | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | kebray: the thing is, a template shouldn't go into a catalog unless it is first managed with full revision control (git) and validated that it actually works (jenkins) | 20:29 |
| shardy | kebray: can you summarise, what will this template store actually give folks, which they can't already get with git (plus some UI integration on top) | 20:29 |
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| zaneb | shardy: ++ | 20:30 |
| kebray | zaneb: the service provides a service provider sanitized list of deployable template options. | 20:30 |
| randallburt | shardy: a thin layer over that strategy that is consistent for everyone | 20:30 |
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| randallburt | well, thin-ish ;) | 20:30 |
| zaneb | kebray: wait, the *service provider* supplies the templates? | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | kebray: not to mention that we would often want custom golden images associated with a template in the catalog | 20:30 |
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| kebray | yeah, pretty thin... the backends could be plug able (swift, git, whatever). But, it's a consistent way for folks to get a list of stored templates, and then tell Heat go deploy this one from the list. | 20:31 |
| kebray | stevebaker that's another use case I hadn't thought of, but yes, something like golden image associations could be implemented in a catalog. | 20:31 |
| asalkeld | it would be good to have a global instance global too | 20:31 |
| asalkeld | (a replacement to heat-templates) | 20:32 |
| kebray | I view the catalog as sort of a "Glance for HOT" as randallburt described it. | 20:32 |
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| shardy | well AWS just stick them on a web-site, I don't see why static service provider sanitised examples can't be provided that way, then users get to manipulate stuff through git | 20:32 |
| randallburt | asalkeld: +1 | 20:32 |
| shardy | can't we just enable python-heatclient to list stuff from the heat-templates repo? | 20:32 |
| tspatzier | I like the idea. And if this is a service that comes with openstack, it avoids having to setup up a repo on your own. Just using a git on the internet can be a problem behind firewalls ... | 20:32 |
| shardy | heat template-examples-list | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | shardy, it lets people share | 20:33 |
| randallburt | shardy: assuming we do the work to make sure those templates are up-to-date and working | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | so it can grow in a community | 20:33 |
| kebray | shardy, we could go that route, and build our "website catalog service" independent of Heat. But, I think a standard way for Horizon, private OpenStack cloud distributions (with custom UIs), and public cloud UIs to consume catalog would be nice. | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | and all those warm fuzzy terms | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | unless the catalog is integrated with CI, in many cases what is being shared will be of low quality | 20:34 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: what you're talking about is not an OpenStack service though, it's a website | 20:34 |
| shardy | randallburt: well fragmenting it so every service provider maintains their own template catalog is not going to help | 20:34 |
| tspatzier | shardy, I know of many private cloud deployments where there is no internet access, so heat-templates would not work | 20:34 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, horizon? | 20:34 |
| shardy | tspatzier: having a tarball release, or local mirror/clone is trivial | 20:34 |
| tspatzier | shardy, yes, that would be an option | 20:34 |
| randallburt | shardy: I don't disagree, but having the service available as both a public repo as well as something anyone else can set up and manage their own repo aren't mutually exclusive | 20:35 |
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| shardy | randallburt: git+github already enable all of that | 20:35 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: the number of people you can share with in Horizon is limited, at best | 20:35 |
| shardy | the only thing missing is the ui integration | 20:35 |
| kebray | I'm not so worried about the list of sanitized templates at the moment as I am the interface (service) to store and list them.. Each service provider or OpenStack operator may want to create their own sanitized list. Not everyone who uses Heat in an OpenStack installation should have to set up a git repo and point their catalog at that. | 20:35 |
| zaneb | kebray: so this is about having a list to pick from in Horizon? | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, ok well I think kebray is after something different | 20:36 |
| shardy | kebray: so everyone just has to point at some other service instead? | 20:37 |
| kebray | zaneb any UI, not just Horizon. | 20:37 |
| stevebaker | shall we continue this discussion in 5 days? | 20:38 |
| kebray | If Heat, as a service, provided a way for the Heat administrator to configure where (the backend) that sanitized templates come from, Horizon (or any other non Horizon UI they are using on top of OpenStack) could just consume the standard service API call to get the sanitized template list. | 20:38 |
| kebray | stevebaker sure. | 20:38 |
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| kebray | Just wanted to get people thinking more about it :-) | 20:38 |
| randallburt | preferably over drinks | 20:38 |
| zaneb | kebray: so, I would be very -2 on having this in the Heat *project*. But I'm open-minded about having it in the Orchestration *program*, though I currently remain unconvinced | 20:38 |
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| kebray | zaneb agreed it should not be a required operational API of Heat... but, I do think it belongs within the Heat source tree, kind of like AutoScale, as an optional API endpoint that can be enabled. | 20:39 |
| stevebaker | anything else before the endmeeting? | 20:39 |
| shardy | kebray: When we meet, I'd very much like to hear specific on what this gives us that having e.g a configurable git repo won't | 20:39 |
| shardy | specifics | 20:39 |
| kebray | shardy sure. | 20:39 |
| zaneb | kebray: I would vote for separate repo, it's a completely different service with no shared code | 20:39 |
| randallburt | zaneb: def agree there. | 20:39 |
| shardy | zaneb: +1 | 20:40 |
| kebray | zaneb k, your vote is recorded. | 20:40 |
| zaneb | lol :) | 20:40 |
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| asalkeld | so we all meeting up on tuesday? | 20:40 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: yes, at lunch | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | provisionally at lunch | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | o | 20:40 |
| kebray | Tuesday sounds great. | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | I'll order some bouncers to keep a big table clear | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | there is nothing much in the moring | 20:41 |
| stevebaker | ending meeting in 3... | 20:41 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: keynotes, TOSCA session | 20:41 |
| stevebaker | 2.. | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | ok, was only looking at dev sessions | 20:42 |
| stevebaker | 1. | 20:42 |
| stevebaker | #endmeeting | 20:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 30 20:42:15 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-10-30-19.59.html | 20:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-10-30-19.59.txt | 20:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-10-30-19.59.log.html | 20:42 |
| stevebaker | thanks all, see you soon! | 20:42 |
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