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| garyk | boris-42: ping | 11:21 |
|---|---|---|
| boris-42 | why in meeting?) | 11:21 |
| boris-42 | probably it will be better in Nova to | 11:21 |
| garyk | boris-42: did you read what you wrote on the review? | 11:21 |
| garyk | oops my bad | 11:21 |
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| boris-42 | go in Nova? | 11:22 |
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| mestery | Hey, ML2 meeting time! | 13:59 |
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| mestery | #startmeeting networking_ml2 | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 24 14:00:03 2013 UTC. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_ml2' | 14:00 |
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| rkukura | hi | 14:00 |
| mestery | Hi, apech, matrohon, rkukura here? | 14:00 |
| apech | hi, yup | 14:00 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ML2 Agenda | 14:00 |
| pcm_ | hi | 14:00 |
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| mestery | OK, lets get started | 14:01 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/ML2 ML2 Wiki Page | 14:01 |
| mestery | Thanks to rkukura for starting to add information to the ML2 Wiki | 14:01 |
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| mestery | I'm going to add some devstack information once we settle on the devstack direction for the patch I have in review | 14:02 |
| Sukhdev | good morning | 14:02 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Hi! | 14:02 |
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| mestery | So, any additional information people can add to the wiki would be great! | 14:02 |
| mestery | I've noticed an uptick in the number of people asking for instructions on how to run ML2, for example. | 14:03 |
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| mestery | So, any other questions or concerns on the wiki? | 14:03 |
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| mestery | #topic Blueprint Updates | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint Updates (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:04 | |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/ml2-portbinding ML2 portbinding | 14:04 |
| mestery | rkukura: Any updates on portbinding? | 14:04 |
| rkukura | I've been bogged down with other work this past week, so have made no progress coding | 14:04 |
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| mestery | rkukura: OK, no worries, thanks for the update! | 14:05 |
| rkukura | After today, I hope to free up some time. If I can't get started by next weeks meeting, someone else may want to pick it up | 14:05 |
| mestery | That's what I was going to suggest as well. | 14:05 |
| mestery | I'll make a note of that here. | 14:05 |
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| mestery | #action rkukura If no progress on portbinding BP by next week, find a new owner. | 14:06 |
| matrohon | hi | 14:06 |
| mestery | rkukura: Along these lines, are we all in sync with arosen on the host_id thread on the ML? | 14:06 |
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| rkukura | mestery: Can you summarize the conclusion? | 14:07 |
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| mestery | rkukura: I think the summary was everyone wants to move port create to nova-api, but compute will still call update with the host_id afterwards. | 14:07 |
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| rkukura | thats what I thought | 14:07 |
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| mestery | We're ok with that I believe from an ML2 perspective, right? | 14:08 |
| rkukura | seems there is also talk of replacing the update with a more explicit bind operation later, which I think is a good idea | 14:08 |
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| mestery | Yes, that makes sense to me as well. | 14:08 |
| mestery | So the direction there looks good in general and for ML2 specifically. | 14:08 |
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| rkukura | I see no issue from ml2-portbinding perspective | 14:08 |
| mestery | OK, anything else on portbinding from anyone? | 14:09 |
| Sukhdev | can I ask a question for clarification - | 14:09 |
| mestery | Sukhdev: Yes, please go ahead. | 14:10 |
| Sukhdev | by the time ML2 driver's port_create_precommint() is invoked, we will have the host-id info, right? | 14:10 |
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| apech | my understanding is that we'll still be able to get it, though it might be part of the update_port call. Is that right? | 14:11 |
| rkukura | Sukhdev: I don't think you can count on that - the host_id will likely be supplied in a later update() | 14:11 |
| Sukhdev | Oh I see - that changes the model a bit then | 14:11 |
| apech | slightly | 14:12 |
| apech | are arosen's changes going to land for H3? | 14:12 |
| Sukhdev | thanks for clarification - | 14:12 |
| mestery | apech: Don't know, seems like he'll start working on them soon though. | 14:12 |
| apech | mestery: thanks | 14:13 |
| rkukura | I think ml2's port binding can occur in three places: 1) port_create if host-id supplied, 2) port_update, 3) RCP processing for the port | 14:13 |
| rkukura | s/RCP/RPC/ | 14:13 |
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| mestery | rkukura: That makes sense, and the BP you're working on will handle when that happens, right? | 14:14 |
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| rkukura | yes | 14:14 |
| mestery | OK, thanks! | 14:14 |
| mestery | Lets move on to the next BP. | 14:14 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-multi-segment-api ML2 multi-segment-api | 14:15 |
| mestery | I don't think anyone is assigned to this BP yet. | 14:15 |
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| mestery | So unless someone really wants it, I can take this one. | 14:15 |
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| mestery | rkukura: This would be nice to have for Havana I think, do you agree? | 14:15 |
| rkukura | I agree, especially if the extension goes in for nvp | 14:16 |
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| mestery | #action mestery to assign ML2 multi-segment BP to himself and begin working on it | 14:16 |
| rkukura | Only question I have is how the new extension interacts with the current provider extension | 14:16 |
| mestery | Good question, I'll explore that and see what I can come up with. | 14:17 |
| rkukura | I've got some thoughts on it too, so lets discuss | 14:17 |
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| mestery | Absolutely! | 14:17 |
| mestery | OK, moving along to the last BP to discuss today. | 14:18 |
| rkukura | we should do this via email on openstack-dev, CCing arosen | 14:18 |
| mestery | rkukura: Agreed, lets start a thread there. Can you start the thread since you already have some thoughts on this? | 14:18 |
| rkukura | OK | 14:18 |
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| mestery | #action rkukura to start thread on ML around multi-segment API extension and how it interacts with existing providernet extension | 14:19 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-typedriver-extra-port-info ML2 TypeDriver extra port info | 14:19 |
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| mestery | So, this was registered last week by Zang MingJie. | 14:19 |
| ZangMingJie | this is simple one | 14:19 |
| mestery | And code was posted, but I thought we as a team should discuss this one here. | 14:19 |
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| ZangMingJie | I'm already on it | 14:19 |
| mestery | ZangMingJie: Welcome! | 14:19 |
| mestery | Not sure people have had a chance to eyeball this BP yet, but wanted to make sure the ML2 team saw this. | 14:20 |
| rkukura | Would this also apply to QoS? | 14:20 |
| ZangMingJie | I don't think there is any relation to QoS | 14:21 |
| mestery | My only concern with the patch as pushed so far is it relies on an agent_id for the query. Not all ML2 MechanismDrivers will have agents. | 14:22 |
| rkukura | There wouldn't be RPCs unless there are agents, right | 14:23 |
| rkukura | ?? | 14:23 |
| mestery | rkukura: Ah, right, good call. | 14:23 |
| rkukura | The ml2-portbinding will be adding mechanism drivers for the agent-based mechansims | 14:24 |
| mestery | rkukura: You mean OVS and LB? | 14:24 |
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| rkukura | yes - they will inspect the agent-db data to decide if/what segment can be bound | 14:24 |
| apech | i could see this being useful for non agent-based mechanisms (if what we're talking about is getting the ip multicast address associated with a VXLAN) | 14:25 |
| apech | so (maybe specific to this piece of info) it'd be great if this could be exposed to mechansim drivers | 14:26 |
| apech | though i guess this wouldn't be a direct call to the type driver anyway | 14:26 |
| rkukura | I'd been thinking we'd eventually make the segment dictionary a bit more extensible - maybe this extra info belongs there? | 14:26 |
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| apech | rkukura, yeah that would work | 14:27 |
| mestery | Does Vxlan mutlicast IP belong as part of hte port or the segment? To me, I think the segment. | 14:27 |
| rkukura | Do all porting bound to the segment need to use the same multicast IP? | 14:28 |
| rkukura | s/porting/ports/ | 14:28 |
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| mestery | Yes | 14:28 |
| mestery | Each segment can have it's own muilticast IP though | 14:28 |
| rkukura | Is there good use case for different segments having different IPs? | 14:28 |
| rkukura | Maybe existing provider VXLANs? | 14:29 |
| apech | yeah - it limits broadcast domains | 14:29 |
| ZangMingJie | multiple group can reduce multicast domains | 14:29 |
| mestery | Yes, that is the use case I was thinking of. | 14:29 |
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| mestery | OK, lets continue this discussion on the ML | 14:30 |
| mestery | I'd like to spend some time on a few other items now. | 14:30 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 14:30 |
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| rkukura | agreed, and its related to the multi-segment API | 14:30 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37516/ Validate Provider networks correctly | 14:30 |
| mestery | matrohon: Here? | 14:30 |
| matrohon | yep | 14:31 |
| mestery | Hey, looks like you've made some progress on this one. | 14:31 |
| matrohon | i was ooo at teh begining of the week | 14:31 |
| mestery | Only minor issues left and then hopefully we can get this fix in. | 14:31 |
| mestery | Ah, ok. | 14:31 |
| matrohon | will propose a new patch tomorrow | 14:31 |
| mestery | Great! | 14:31 |
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| matrohon | should be merged quickly now | 14:31 |
| HenryG | matrohon: nice cleanup, thanks! | 14:31 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/devstack/+bug/1200767 devstack patch for ML2 | 14:32 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1200767 in devstack "Add support for setting extra network options for ML2 plugin" [Undecided,In progress] | 14:32 |
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| mestery | I know rkukura has taken a look at this one, but I'd appreciate more ML2 folks looking at this too. | 14:32 |
| mestery | My goal with this patch was to make the existing simple use case for GRE tunnel networks work with ML@. | 14:33 |
| mestery | s/ML@/ML2/ | 14:33 |
| matrohon | will do soon | 14:33 |
| mestery | But also allow for advanced ML2 configuration | 14:33 |
| mestery | I've been running this with multi-node and ML2 and VXLAN with no problems, FYI. | 14:33 |
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| rkukura | So this maintains compatability with selecting tenant network types with the other plugins, right? | 14:33 |
| mestery | Yes, all existing devstack config variables should work with the latest rev of hte patch. | 14:34 |
| mestery | Please have a look and test it out if you can. | 14:34 |
| matrohon | mestery : did you try with bothe vxlan and gre | 14:34 |
| rkukura | I plan to ASAP | 14:34 |
| matrohon | i will test it tomorrow too | 14:34 |
| mestery | matrohon: I've run with both TypeDrivers loaded, but not with both networks at the same time. Will try that out and see how it goes though. | 14:35 |
| matrohon | it should be ok, if you don't specify the same tunnel id | 14:35 |
| mestery | matrohon: Yes, agreed. | 14:35 |
| mestery | Any more devstack+ML2 questions? | 14:36 |
| ZangMingJie | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/openvswitch-kernel-vxlan | 14:36 |
| ZangMingJie | I have made some change of the BP | 14:36 |
| mestery | ZangMingJie: That wasn't on the agenda for today. | 14:37 |
| mestery | ZangMingJie: I'll add it to the ML2 page, but we're following the agenda on the meeting page. | 14:37 |
| rkukura | My understanding is that the linux kernel upstream Open vSwitch implementation will be using this VXLAN implementation? | 14:37 |
| mestery | rkukura: Yes, work is ongoing to make the upstream OVS integrate with the upstream VXLAN implementation. | 14:37 |
| mestery | So eventually we will have to collapse the Neutron OVS VXLAN work as well. | 14:38 |
| ZangMingJie | the kernel implementation is different of ovs vxlan | 14:38 |
| mestery | ZangMingJie: For now it is, but upstream OVS is integrating with the kernel implementation. | 14:38 |
| rkukura | I think the OVS tree and kernel tree differ on this | 14:38 |
| ZangMingJie | it doesn't need tunnel point manipulation, so no tunnel sync call | 14:39 |
| mestery | For now, yes. Work ongoing to collapse the two. | 14:39 |
| mestery | ZangMingJie: There are pros and cons to multicast with Vxlan. | 14:39 |
| mestery | I'd like to get the meeting back to the agenda now though. | 14:39 |
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| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/l2-population L2 Population | 14:40 |
| mestery | matrohon: Will you start work on this BP soon? | 14:40 |
| rkukura | ZangMingJie: Can you please update the BP to clarify how this relates to the current OVS VXLAN support and the planned OVS cut-over to using kernel VXLAN support? | 14:40 |
| matrohon | mestery: it's started | 14:40 |
| mestery | matrohon: Great! | 14:40 |
| mestery | matrohon: Any chance you'll have a patch for this by next week? | 14:41 |
| mestery | I think this will be a nice optimization | 14:41 |
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| matrohon | i'll be in vacation, so my colleagues will propose a patch before the end of the next week | 14:41 |
| mestery | Thanks. | 14:41 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1177973 OVS L2 agent polling | 14:42 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1177973 in neutron "OVS L2 agent polling is too cpu intensive (dup-of: 1194438)" [Medium,In progress] | 14:42 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1194438 in neutron/grizzly "compute node's OVS agent takes long time to scan sync all port's stat and update port security rules" [High,In progress] | 14:42 |
| mestery | Along those lines, there is this bug as well. | 14:42 |
| mestery | matrohon: Your colleague was working on this one too? Francois? | 14:42 |
| matrohon | ZangMingJie : please have a look in l2-popiulation, for vxlan | 14:42 |
| mestery | But now it's unassigned. | 14:42 |
| matrohon | mainly safchain | 14:42 |
| feleouet_ | Hi | 14:43 |
| mestery | feleouet_: Hi! You are no longer working on this bug? | 14:43 |
| feleouet_ | I used to propose a first patchset, but the bug turned out to be fixed in a duplicate... | 14:43 |
| mestery | Ah yes, seeing that now. | 14:43 |
| rkukura | I spoke with marun, who filed the L2 agent polling bug | 14:44 |
| ZangMingJie | matrohon: ye, I already got that, with l2 population, the control plane will be totally managed by agent | 14:44 |
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| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1196963 | 14:45 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1196963 in neutron "Update the OVS agent code to program tunnels using ports instead of tunnel IDs" [Wishlist,In progress] | 14:45 |
| mestery | matrohon: Is this duplicated or fixed with your L2 population work? | 14:45 |
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| matrohon | mestery : not really, we need a first patch to have gre and vxlan with the same id on the same agent | 14:46 |
| mestery | matrohon: OK, thanks. | 14:46 |
| matrohon | mestery : but l2-population will improve this functionnality | 14:46 |
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| mestery | matrohon: Got it. | 14:47 |
| mestery | #topic Ported MechanismDriver Updates | 14:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ported MechanismDriver Updates (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:48 | |
| mestery | Sukhdev_: Arista driver update? | 14:48 |
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| mestery | For the Cisco update, rcurran is still on PTO for another week, so not much to report there. | 14:50 |
| apech | i'm happy to update there - mostly the same as last week, working on unit tests and waiting to make the final changes on the port-binding bp | 14:50 |
| mestery | apech: Thanks for the update! | 14:50 |
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| mestery | For OpenDaylight, the OVSDB support for ODL was approved, and we are now integrating that with our ODL MechanismDriver. | 14:50 |
| mestery | We hope to have a POC by next week which ties all of this together. | 14:50 |
| mestery | asomya is working on this with me at the moment. | 14:51 |
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| mestery | If Luke Gorrie is here, he can provide an update on the Tail-f NCS MechanismDriver. | 14:51 |
| mestery | #topic Questions? | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Questions? (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:52 | |
| mestery | Anything else ML2 related this week from anyone? | 14:52 |
| fmanco | Hi everyone | 14:52 |
| rkukura | Congrats to mestery on becoming neutron core! | 14:52 |
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| fmanco | Just want to know if someone looked at my BP | 14:52 |
| mestery | rkukura: Thanks! | 14:52 |
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| mestery | fmanco: Sorry, I think I missed that in the meeting. | 14:53 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/campus-network Campus Network BP | 14:53 |
| fmanco | mestery: no prob | 14:53 |
| mestery | fmanco: I think rkukura was going to have a look at this in detail and provide feedback. | 14:53 |
| fmanco | And btw congrats for the core position | 14:53 |
| mestery | fmanco: thank you! | 14:54 |
| rkukura | fmanco: Sorry - I have not got to this yet. Others should review as well. | 14:54 |
| mestery | fmanco: Did I post the link to the correct BP? | 14:55 |
| mestery | Or was there an ML2 specific one? | 14:55 |
| mestery | Can you add it here if I didn't post the right one? | 14:55 |
| ZangMingJie | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-external-port this one ? | 14:55 |
| fmanco | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/ml2-external-port | 14:55 |
| fmanco | ZangMingJie: Yes | 14:56 |
| mestery | Thanks ZangMingJie. | 14:56 |
| mestery | #action ML2 team to review https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-external-port | 14:56 |
| mestery | fmanco: Will provide feedback on ML. | 14:56 |
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| rkukura | We should create a "punch list" leading to ml2 becoming default plugin in devstack | 14:57 |
| fmanco | Just and update. I already started some code. I hope I can submit at least a sketch for review | 14:57 |
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| mestery | rkukura: Yes, agreed. | 14:57 |
| rkukura | need to document ml2, get into CI, etc. | 14:57 |
| mestery | rkukura: I will ping sean and dean about this as well to give them a heads up. | 14:57 |
| HenryG | General question -- what different things do these try to accomplish: providernet, multi-segemnt, external-port ? | 14:58 |
| HenryG | Seems to be a lot of overlap? | 14:58 |
| mestery | HenryG: Lets take that to the ML I think, we only have < 2 minutes left. :) | 14:59 |
| HenryG | Of course. | 14:59 |
| mestery | OK, thanks folks! Remember: H3 freeze is about 4 weeks out. | 14:59 |
| mestery | So lets try to finish up the ML2 BPs and bugs in the next few weeks if we can! | 14:59 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 24 14:59:32 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-07-24-14.00.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-07-24-14.00.txt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-07-24-14.00.log.html | 14:59 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 24 15:00:24 2013 UTC. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hello all, show of hands for who is around? | 15:00 |
| matel | I am here, Bob is back in a moment. | 15:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | Ok, will wait for Bob | 15:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | matel: got anything extra for the agenda? | 15:01 |
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| matel | I just ran a full tepest, it seems, console is working. | 15:02 |
| matel | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38444/ | 15:02 |
| BobBall | Bob is here! | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | I saw your patch - thank you :) | 15:02 |
| euanh | I'm here | 15:02 |
| BobBall | Yes - very pleased that full tempest is working :) | 15:02 |
| BobBall | Hi Euan! | 15:02 |
| matel | I didn't say full tempest is working :-) | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | matel: cool, nice devstack change | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | anyway, lets keep to the agenda | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | just collecting items for the agenda | 15:02 |
| matel | Okay. | 15:02 |
| BobBall | Full tempest isn't working yet? No holidays for you. | 15:02 |
| matel | I know. | 15:03 |
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| BobBall | There are a few things to say - such as xenserver-core | 15:03 |
| matel | this one is failing only with an error tempest.api.volume.test_volumes_actions.VolumesActionsTest.test_volume_upload | 15:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:03 |
| matel | Okay, let John drive. | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic actions from previous meetings | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meetings (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:04 | |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: update blueprints | 15:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think you did that right? | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Done that | 15:04 |
| BobBall | yes | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:04 |
| BobBall | primarily just de-targeting havana | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Blueprints | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:04 | |
| johnthetubaguy | so, just tracking progress | 15:04 |
| BobBall | We've got a major focus internally on updating both XS code and OS code to work within supported interfaces | 15:05 |
| BobBall | but that's not really a blueprint | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | H-3 is obvious the last time for features till I, and its getting very full | 15:05 |
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| BobBall | *nod* | 15:05 |
| BobBall | We've got a couple of things we're planning to target I-1 and I-2 - if things fall in the right place - and they will definitely need blueprints | 15:05 |
| BobBall | but it's too early to write them | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, well you can enter blank ones so people know | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | its quite lightweight, but up to you, obviously | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | its worth thinking about everything for I re-talking at the summit about things | 15:07 |
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| BobBall | indeed | 15:07 |
| BobBall | we're looking at having a couple of summit sessions | 15:07 |
| BobBall | hopefully! | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | we have the oslo lib work that needs some work, and things that got dropped, would be good to chase those | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | several summit sessions? | 15:08 |
| BobBall | I don't want to put the blueprints up yet since there are a few things I need to sort out here first | 15:08 |
| BobBall | on different subjects | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | I have one blueprint for H-2 | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | config drive stuff | 15:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its getting there | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | so... | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Docs | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:10 | |
| johnthetubaguy | how are we doing with docs? | 15:10 |
| BobBall | Uhhh - are there bugs that you're thinking about? | 15:10 |
| BobBall | or specific improvements that you were expecting us to do? | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | not really tracking that | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | we kinda try to do an end of release review of the docs | 15:11 |
| annegentle | BobBall: there are doc bugs for Xen, is that what you're asking? | 15:11 |
| BobBall | ahhh I see yes | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | just wanted to make sure something is done around that | 15:11 |
| annegentle | BobBall: one idea we had was to collect them all into a doc blueprint? | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | we added quite a few | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | annegentle: ah yes, that sounds like a good plan | 15:11 |
| BobBall | annegentle: I know... I meant more in terms of the agenda for today's XenAPI meeting | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | we can track that here | 15:12 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: I kinda liked the idea, Steve Gordon suggested it. | 15:12 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: ok we'll gather 'em up | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | annegentle: ping me if I can help with that | 15:12 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy: will do | 15:12 |
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| BobBall | Sounds good to me! | 15:12 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cool, keen we don't let docs slip | 15:12 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sweet | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | the install guide is a big one that hasn't been brought up for a bit I guess | 15:13 |
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| johnthetubaguy | doesn't really cover the openstack-nova-xcp kinda things in ubuntu, etc | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | but thats a big topic | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyway, lets talk bugs... | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Bugs and QA | 15:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and QA (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:14 | |
| johnthetubaguy | has anyone got any bugs they want to raise | 15:14 |
| BobBall | yeah | 15:14 |
| BobBall | I think so | 15:14 |
| BobBall | but I'm not totally sure | 15:14 |
| BobBall | I _think_ security groups doesn't work in XS | 15:14 |
| matel | A fresh one: #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1204551 | 15:15 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1204551 in cinder "xenapi: volume upload fails" [Undecided,New] | 15:15 |
| matel | I am doing that. | 15:15 |
| matel | Not sure if it is xenserver related, but we 'll see. | 15:15 |
| BobBall | I suspect it used to, when the default stack was linux bridge, but with the OVS the iptables rules only get called at some points | 15:15 |
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| BobBall | I think that security groups are not working on any distro that uses OVS and not NVP | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | does it work with NVP? | 15:17 |
| BobBall | I assume so - that uses a different firewall driver | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess they do there own OVS rules | 15:17 |
| BobBall | but the firewall driver which is an OVS iptables hybrid just uses iptables rules | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, so there are security groups by nova, and security groups by neutron I guess | 15:17 |
| BobBall | and I don't think they work | 15:17 |
| BobBall | probably either in nova or neutron | 15:17 |
| BobBall | since neutron just took that file from nova ;) | 15:17 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sounds like you should raise a security bug for that, just in case | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | lets not discuss that here | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | neutron, is a different control path to trigger, but yes, may have the same "issues" | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, any more bugs? | 15:18 |
| BobBall | I'm not ready to raise a bug | 15:19 |
| BobBall | I don't know for sure that it doesn't work | 15:19 |
| BobBall | just theory says it can't | 15:19 |
| BobBall | in practice it might be different ;) | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, but it sounds like a security issue, people can help through that channel | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | this has public logs | 15:20 |
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| BobBall | okies | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | any more bugs? | 15:21 |
| matel | Could you re-visit #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36523/ | 15:21 |
| BobBall | Mate's bug | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | ewanh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1073306 think we are clashing on this | 15:21 |
| BobBall | we haven't talked about that | 15:21 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1073306 in nova "xenapi migrations don't apply security group filters" [Medium,In progress] | 15:21 |
| euanh | I added a comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1073306 | 15:22 |
| matel | Mate just linked his bug for the record, he will just fix it, no talk needed around that. | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | euanh, yeah, cool, maybe raise a separate bug for live-migration | 15:22 |
| euanh | I was looking at it in live migration | 15:23 |
| euanh | so we don't clash | 15:23 |
| euanh | yes, plan to | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | euanh: cool, thats all good, thanks | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | euanh: might need to raise a security bug for that one | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, any more? | 15:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I wanted to ask about gating XenAPI | 15:26 |
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| johnthetubaguy | how is that effort going? | 15:26 |
| BobBall | sure | 15:26 |
| BobBall | scheduled to start in earnest at the start of August | 15:26 |
| BobBall | well - first full week in august | 15:26 |
| BobBall | then we'll be trying to commit some code ;) | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, whats the plan? | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | smokestack gating, using tempest? | 15:27 |
| BobBall | not using tempest | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, just smokestack then? | 15:27 |
| BobBall | yup | 15:28 |
| matel | let's say torpedo | 15:28 |
| BobBall | we need to make it more stable WRT how it handles packages | 15:28 |
| matel | It's a bit confusing. | 15:28 |
| BobBall | and ensures that we can merge packages suitably | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | what about the tempest work today, is that planning to get into the gate? | 15:28 |
| matel | I don't understand. | 15:28 |
| BobBall | fingers crossed - but nothing as concrete for that | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | doing nova-compute in dom0, is what I was meaning by tempest | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | mirroring the QEMU tests that are there today | 15:29 |
| BobBall | oh right | 15:29 |
| BobBall | nova-compute in dom0 - should be looking at that RSN | 15:29 |
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| matel | what is RSN? | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | RSN? | 15:30 |
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| BobBall | real soon now ;) | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, so heading for both? | 15:30 |
| BobBall | Making sure there is a fallback option perhas | 15:30 |
| BobBall | perhaps* | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | tempest and torpedo | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, ok | 15:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | it does seem odd to gate on external packages | 15:31 |
| BobBall | we won't gate on external packages | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | always went for tempest so it was easy for committers to make the required depenency changes etc | 15:31 |
| BobBall | if packaging fails then it won't prevent the gate | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, so an optional gate? | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | example: I add a xenapi plugin | 15:32 |
| BobBall | yes | 15:32 |
| BobBall | if plugin fails then it won't -2 vote | 15:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hmm, OK | 15:33 |
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| BobBall | My current hope is https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qTvZ8kmByOrtilYhc_BiwOhkzpN-GT0UTbniusnKohI/edit?usp=sharing | 15:33 |
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| BobBall | although this workflow hasn't been approved with the infra team yet | 15:33 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, it does seem quite a change | 15:34 |
| BobBall | not really | 15:34 |
| BobBall | gate as is runs as normal | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | my 2 cents would be to do both, if tempest is the major test suite | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | etc | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | but anyways | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds like there is good progress | 15:34 |
| BobBall | ofc - tempest will remain and run the full tests etc | 15:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | just be good to see tempest running on XenServer and gating commits, if its going to survive | 15:35 |
| BobBall | It would indeed | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | sounds like we are mostly agreed | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 15:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:36 | |
| johnthetubaguy | so, anything more? | 15:37 |
| BobBall | nothing from me | 15:37 |
| euanh | nope | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | nor me | 15:37 |
| BobBall | *puts on his best Mr Burns voice* excellent | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks all | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 24 15:38:50 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:38 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-07-24-15.00.html | 15:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-07-24-15.00.txt | 15:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-07-24-15.00.log.html | 15:38 |
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| winston-1 | hey, all | 16:01 |
| YorikSar | Hi | 16:01 |
| xyang_ | hi | 16:01 |
| avishay | hi | 16:01 |
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| kmartin | hello | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | #startmeeting openstack | 16:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 24 16:04:41 2013 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack)" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack' | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 24 16:04:50 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack/2013/openstack.2013-07-24-16.04.html | 16:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack/2013/openstack.2013-07-24-16.04.txt | 16:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack/2013/openstack.2013-07-24-16.04.log.html | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 24 16:04:59 2013 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:05 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | geesh! | 16:05 |
| thingee_ | o/ | 16:05 |
| avishay | :) | 16:05 |
| winston-1 | \o | 16:05 |
| eharney | hi | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | Ok... hey everyone | 16:05 |
| JM1 | hi | 16:05 |
| zhiyan | hi | 16:05 |
| * bswartz is not on a plane or a train | 16:05 | |
| xyang_ | hi | 16:05 |
| kmartin | hello | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | So to start I have a request.... | 16:05 |
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| DuncanT- | Hey | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | I've updated the meetings wiki to include an *ask* that if you post a topic also please put your name or irc nick so we know who the interested party is :) | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | so on that note, is the owner of topic 1 around? | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | ok | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | onward | 16:07 |
| avishay | (1. optional iscsi support for non-iscsi drivers) | 16:07 |
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| winston-1 | dosboy here? | 16:07 |
| winston-1 | dosaboy: ping | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | Ok... we'll circle back | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | the VMWare topic? | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | kartikaditya: that you? | 16:08 |
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| kartikaditya | Yep I for the vmware plugin | 16:08 |
| kartikaditya | but I am workign on the code so nothing much to ask | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | kartikaditya: cool | 16:08 |
| kartikaditya | jgriffith: Removed the topic, since work is in progress | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | so more of a heads up | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | kartikaditya: looking forward to seeing it | 16:09 |
| DuncanT- | dosaboy is on his way | 16:09 |
| kartikaditya | jgriffith: Yep, having an internal round before sending it out | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | snapshotting generic block dev? | 16:09 |
| dosaboy | i'm here | 16:09 |
| YorikSar | Here | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | anybody here for that? | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | Ok... | 16:09 |
| dosaboy | sorry was in another meeting | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | YorikSar: let's start with you | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | #topic generic block dev driver snapshot support | 16:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "generic block dev driver snapshot support (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:10 | |
| YorikSar | The problem is that we have snapshotting in minimum requirements but it's not feasible to implement it for generic block device driver. | 16:10 |
| * thingee_ added driver dev doc to agenda | 16:10 | |
| *** thingee_ is now known as thingee | 16:10 | |
| YorikSar | So we should either agree on exception for this driver or... smth else | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | YorikSar: I'm not convinced we can't come up with something on this | 16:11 |
| dosaboy | winston-1: wassup? | 16:11 |
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| winston-1 | dosaboy: i guess you were the owner of today's topic 1? | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | YorikSar: however I think the use cases for the local disk one would warrant an exception | 16:12 |
| YorikSar | jgriffith: Yes. | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | YorikSar: do you have a proposal of some sort? | 16:12 |
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| YorikSar | It came from Savanna and they don't need snapshotting. They don't care if it's lost or corrupted - Hadoop will just forget about that node and move on. | 16:13 |
| dosaboy | winston-1: i did not add that but it is my bp | 16:13 |
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| bswartz | YorikSar: that sounds like ephemeral storage -- similar to what nova does | 16:13 |
| YorikSar | So I don't see if some generic snapshotting mechanism should be sone here. | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | YorikSar: yeah TBH it's been low on my list anyway | 16:14 |
| avishay | bswartz: it uses a full disk partition as a volume | 16:14 |
| YorikSar | bswartz: They need block devices not occupied by other IO. They need all iops they can get for HDFS | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | YorikSar: I did want to change the patch the last time I looked though | 16:14 |
| winston-1 | YorikSar: so it's hadoop block device driver instead of generic ? | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | YorikSar: IIRC it's currently using an entire disk and I proposed it should do partitions | 16:15 |
| * thingee is switching to bus, bbl | 16:15 | |
| jgriffith | but anyway... that's an entire different conversation | 16:15 |
| YorikSar | winston-1: No, it's generic. Hadoop and Savannah are just the first usecases for it. | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | speaking of this and thingee | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38383/ | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | We've put min driver requirements in the docs now :) | 16:15 |
| eharney | can you not pass in partitions as the available_devices? | 16:15 |
| YorikSar | jgriffith: I'm not sure if Nova can attach multiple HDs to one instance the way Savanna wants it. | 16:16 |
| winston-1 | YorikSar: if it's generic, maybe snpashot is needed for other use cases. | 16:16 |
| YorikSar | winston-1: Yes, but I don't see any generic way to do snapshots in this case. | 16:17 |
| avishay | is implementing snapshots using 'dd' useful to anyone? | 16:17 |
| eharney | avishay: that would just result in offline clones here, right? | 16:17 |
| avishay | eharney: yes. i personally don't think it's useful, but maybe others disagree. i can't think of any other solution off-hand. | 16:18 |
| zhiyan | YorikSar: dm-snapshot? | 16:18 |
| eharney | avishay: well it already has clone support so i'm not sure i see the value.. | 16:18 |
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| YorikSar | avishay: I don't believe it will. Since we'll have to either use one more HD for 'snapshot' that won't be consistent... | 16:18 |
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| avishay | block device driver has another limitation here that it can't set sizes, so it will need to snapshot to a partition of >= size | 16:19 |
| dosaboy | winston-1: i did add that agenda item ;) | 16:19 |
| med_ | wiki history rarely lies... | 16:19 |
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| avishay | eharney: agreed | 16:20 |
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| YorikSar | We can (almost) alias snapshot and clone just to make that check in the list of drivers... | 16:20 |
| JM1 | is there a clear definition of clones somewhere? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | JM1: yeah | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | JM1: an independent copy of a volume that is a new volume | 16:21 |
| JM1 | ok | 16:21 |
| eharney | jgriffith: a note on that... | 16:21 |
| dosaboy | jgriffith: what are ramifications on min driver reqs? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | eharney: haha | 16:21 |
| eharney | i haven't seen it specified whether offline only counts or if minimum is to support online | 16:22 |
| dosaboy | ...if drivers do not meet min | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | let's have a topic on that so as not to get confused :) | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | #topic min driver reqs | 16:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "min driver reqs (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:22 | |
| YorikSar | But what's the decision on block device driver? | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | YorikSar: TBH I'm not overly concerned about it right now and it may be a sepcial case exception | 16:22 |
| JM1 | for a driver that has no specific support, snapshots and clones are just copies, and can be slow, right? | 16:23 |
| YorikSar | jgriffith: ok | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | YorikSar: I have no problem with it being an exception as it's not a "voume" device per say | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | YorikSar: it's just raw disk | 16:23 |
| YorikSar | JM1: yes | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | YorikSar: but if that becomes an excuse or a problem we'll have to change it | 16:23 |
| JM1 | YorikSar: ok :) | 16:23 |
| kmartin | dosaboy: thingee will send you an email with the missing feature(s) and the driver is at risk of being pulled out of cinder | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | YorikSar: and as silly as it might seem we'll just use the clone | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | ie the clone coe | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | code | 16:24 |
| YorikSar | jgriffith: Ok, great. | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | as we've all said before we don't care how it's implemented just so that the expected behavior is achieved | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | So... back to min driver reqas | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | requirements | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | geesh... can't type this am | 16:25 |
| dosaboy | kmartin: sheesh | 16:25 |
| dosaboy | so, current topic? | 16:25 |
| dosaboy | i guess it has been answered | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: min drier reqs | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | driver!! | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | bahhh | 16:26 |
| eharney | so... offline or online clone is required? | 16:26 |
| * jgriffith is going to give up | 16:26 | |
| jgriffith | eharney: I don't really know what that distinction means | 16:26 |
| dosaboy | jgriffith: deep breath, shot of espresso | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | eharney: sorry... could you explain? | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: ahhh... that's it, no coffee yet :) | 16:26 |
| eharney | yeah, and this will kidn of segue into my current work which maybe should be another topic | 16:27 |
| avishay | i guess online means instantaneous crash-consistent snapshot, which is not required? | 16:27 |
| eharney | so a driver like generic block dev driver (or gluster) can easily do offline clones just by dd'ing data around | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | eharney: ahhh... got ya | 16:27 |
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| eharney | but it falls down w/o snapshot capabilities for online clones | 16:27 |
| * med_ walks a new keyboard and coffee over to jgriffith | 16:28 | |
| jgriffith | so the problem is that say you have two volumes on a multi-backend system | 16:28 |
| DuncanT- | I'd suggest online snapshots need not be in the minimum spec | 16:28 |
| eharney | (i'd like to go over gluster work a bit once we decide we're done w/ the current topic) | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | both vols are in-use | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | "cinder create-snapshot vol-1" succeeds | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | "cinder create-snapshot vol-2" fails because it's in-use | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | from a user perspective that sucks | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: wow... really? | 16:29 |
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| bswartz | jgriffith, what if it didn't fail, it just make a snapshot that was non crash consistent? | 16:30 |
| avishay | agreed, as long as the user doesn't pass the -force flag and gets a useless snapshot - we need to make sure that's documented well | 16:30 |
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| DuncanT- | jgriffith: I'm not that bothered TBH | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: that seems fine to me | 16:30 |
| eharney | why would you want a non crash-consistent snapshot? | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: TBH me neither :) | 16:31 |
| * thingee is back | 16:31 | |
| JM1 | eharney: I don't see how it would be useful either | 16:31 |
| avishay | that's not too fine for me, but it's with the -force flag today...i think we need to find a way to fix this long-term | 16:31 |
| bswartz | eharney, you might be able to arrange on the guest VM for all the I/O to that block device to be quiesced | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | eharney: JM1 the only thing that might be useful is that it's implemented | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | eharney: JM1 meaning consistency in the API | 16:31 |
| JM1 | bswartz: well then what your are doing is an offline snapshot | 16:32 |
| bswartz | yeah but from cinder's perspective it's online | 16:32 |
| DuncanT- | jgriffith: Unless you're using an instantanious snapshot, the sematics are a bit useless anyway | 16:32 |
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| thingee | kmartin: emails for drivers missing some features have been sent | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: don't necessarily disagree | 16:32 |
| thingee | I also sent an email to the openstack dev ML | 16:32 |
| YorikSar | thingee: I have one question about it, btw | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: sadly I thought much of this sort of discussion was behind us | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | sadly it seems it is not | 16:33 |
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| avishay | I think we all agree that dd'ing an attached volume is useless, but i don't see us solving that for havana | 16:33 |
| thingee | YorikSar: sure | 16:33 |
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| DuncanT- | jgriffith: I suspect it will pop up at least once per release | 16:33 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT-: indeed | 16:33 |
| kmartin | thingee: yep, I got mine :) A question was raised regarding what would happen if a driver did not meet the min driver features | 16:33 |
| YorikSar | thingee: I can't actively support Nexenta driver now. So we've forwarded your email to Nexenta people. | 16:33 |
| eharney | thingee: so... who is on the hook for the NFS driver? | 16:34 |
| YorikSar | thingee: What whould happen if they can't provide missing features? | 16:34 |
| avishay | kmartin: it will be shot from a cannon :) | 16:34 |
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| jgriffith | Ok, this is less than productive | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | we're reviewing previous discussions | 16:34 |
| thingee | YorikSar, kmartin: so far, it has been agreed the driver wouldn't be in the release that's missing it's minimum features. | 16:35 |
| DuncanT- | YorikSar: Potentially the driver would be removed before the final cut | 16:35 |
| dosaboy | thingee: so exisiting drivers could be pulled from H? | 16:35 |
| YorikSar | thingee, DuncanT-: thanks. I'll rush them then. | 16:35 |
| thingee | there has been positive responses from driver maintainers so far on getting these requirements fulfilled in time, which was my main concern | 16:35 |
| bswartz | eharney, thingee: if there are issues w/ the NFS driver send the nastygrams to me | 16:36 |
| DuncanT- | dosaboy: Yes. See old minutes | 16:36 |
| eharney | bswartz: well. i have some plans i'm scheming up for it w/ my current work. lemme go over that in a minute | 16:36 |
| YorikSar | I probably can find some people who were doing NFS driver as well... | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | do we need to keep on this topic or should we move along? | 16:37 |
| DuncanT- | Move along | 16:37 |
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| thingee | I say move along. this can be discussed anytime with core on #openstack-cinder | 16:38 |
| winston-1 | yeah, what's next? | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | kk | 16:38 |
| dosaboy | shall I do my original topic? | 16:38 |
| dosaboy | optional iscsi? | 16:38 |
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| jgriffith | #topic optional iscsi-support for non-iscsi drivers | 16:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "optional iscsi-support for non-iscsi drivers (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:38 | |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: k | 16:38 |
| dosaboy | yay | 16:38 |
| dosaboy | ok so this was already discussed soemwhat after last meeting | 16:39 |
| dosaboy | basically the idea | 16:39 |
| dosaboy | (not heavily thought through yet) | 16:39 |
| dosaboy | is to add otpional iscsi support to non-iscsi drivers | 16:39 |
| dosaboy | e.g. rbd driver | 16:39 |
| dosaboy | or gluster | 16:39 |
| avishay | non-iscsi == file system , right? | 16:39 |
| dosaboy | so that hpervisors that do not support those protocols natively | 16:40 |
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| dosaboy | can still use those backends | 16:40 |
| winston-1 | avishay: not really | 16:40 |
| dosaboy | avishay: it is simple to allow e.g. rbd drive to export rbd as iscsi volume | 16:40 |
| jdurgin1 | avishay: no, e.g. rbd and sheepdog use their own protocols | 16:40 |
| dosaboy | so yeah this would apply to, off the top of my head | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: so an optional iscsi wrapper around non-iscsi drivers | 16:41 |
| dosaboy | rbd, gluster, | 16:41 |
| dosaboy | excato | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: is something I think we've talked about over the years | 16:41 |
| dosaboy | exacto | 16:41 |
| zhiyan | dosaboy: i agree with you to give iscsi-support to those drivers for maximum compatibility for hypervisors, but for long term, i think adding native driver in nova side for non-libvirt hypervisors will be better. | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: that was actually a recommendation for doing Fibre Channel at one point :) | 16:41 |
| dosaboy | it would not necessarily be performant | 16:41 |
| eharney | so cinder would end up in the data path between a remote storage node and a remote compute node, serving iSCSI? | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: so FC to a cinder node and export as iSCSI | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | folks hated me for suggesting it IIRC | 16:42 |
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| dosaboy | jgriffith: yep thats one possible option | 16:42 |
| avishay | interesting | 16:42 |
| dosaboy | idea is to make it as generic as possible | 16:42 |
| dosaboy | so e.g. | 16:42 |
| dosaboy | nova now suppirts vware hv | 16:42 |
| dosaboy | but vmdk suppoprt it not there yet | 16:43 |
| dosaboy | so for the interim, an iscsi option could be provided fro non-iscsi backends | 16:43 |
| * med_ walks a new keyboard and coffee over the atlantic to dosaboy too | 16:43 | |
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| hemna | huh | 16:43 |
| hemna | mount an FC volume and export it as iSCSI ? | 16:43 |
| hemna | that's interesting | 16:43 |
| winston-1 | anything can be officially supported by tgt/iet that comes from ubuntu/RHEL/CentOS/Fedora is fine | 16:43 |
| avishay | dosaboy: will this code go into hemna's brick work? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | let's not get distracted | 16:44 |
| hemna | :P | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: think you have something pretty specific in mind | 16:44 |
| guitarzan | dosaboy: what is generic about it? | 16:44 |
| dosaboy | it would be a generic option for all non-iscsi drivers | 16:44 |
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| dosaboy | i'm taking rbd as example | 16:44 |
| dosaboy | but there are others of course | 16:45 |
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| jgriffith | dosaboy: so IMO this i smore a call for jdurgin1 and folks that have to support RBD | 16:45 |
| med_ | ie, make iscsi an even playing field ... | 16:45 |
| med_ | (for any hypervisor, any storage) | 16:45 |
| dosaboy | jgriffith: there are 2 options here | 16:45 |
| dosaboy | 1. implement this for rbd driver only | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: I mean, personally like I said this was something I thought would be an option a while back | 16:45 |
| dosaboy | 2. implement this as more common option for anyone who wants to use it | 16:46 |
| dosaboy | it is easy enough to implement for rbd since tgt now has native support | 16:46 |
| jdurgin1 | jgriffith: I'm fine with it as long as it's clear that it's not meant to be the best for performance or HA. I agree with zhiyan that it's a short term solution | 16:46 |
| DuncanT- | If you can get a common version working, sees daft to do it any other way | 16:46 |
| zhiyan | med_: IMO iscsi can give maximum compatibility for consumer side, but I don't think it's a good enough idea. adding native driver to hypervisor will be better. | 16:46 |
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| avishay | dosaboy: instead of doing rbd only, maybe add it to brick which can already connect, and then export brick connections? | 16:46 |
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| winston-1 | i prefer 2. otherwise, that code will have to heavily refactored to work with others | 16:47 |
| dosaboy | avishay: yep, i need to familiarise myself with brick stuff tbh | 16:47 |
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| thingee | +1 we'll have copypasta later I'm sure | 16:47 |
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| jgriffith | dosaboy: sounds cool | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: I've done it in our lab with FC to iscsi to openstack | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: it's a descent model IMO | 16:48 |
| med_ | where is "brick" documented avishay | 16:48 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: what kind of performance did you see? | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: agree with jdurgin1 though that we need to point out it may not be the ideal option | 16:48 |
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| dosaboy | jgriffith: totally agree | 16:48 |
| avishay | med_: i'm not sure the specific code i'm talking about is documented | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: wasn't too far off from what FC throughputs were | 16:48 |
| med_ | avishay, nod, that's kind of what I thought. | 16:49 |
| thingee | avishay: It's not...yet :) | 16:49 |
| dosaboy | it is just to sort out people using hypervisors that don't yet pair up | 16:49 |
| winston-1 | bswartz: bad per my experience on sheepdog | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: in most cases it was the same, but I needed some tweaking | 16:49 |
| avishay | thingee: :) | 16:49 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: and I was using a dedicated 10G network for iSCSI data | 16:49 |
| dosaboy | ok i'll try to get a POC done | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | Ok... anything else? | 16:50 |
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| dosaboy | not from me | 16:50 |
| thingee | 10 min warning | 16:50 |
| eharney | i'd like to touch on assisted snaps for a minute | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | thingee: :) I'm actaully going to try and wrap early | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | #topic assisted snaps | 16:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "assisted snaps (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:50 | |
| jgriffith | eharney: have at it | 16:50 |
| eharney | so i posted the cinder side of this work | 16:51 |
| eharney | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/qemu-assisted-snapshots,n,z | 16:51 |
| eharney | this is about supporting snapshots for drivers like GlusterFS that don't have storage backend snapshot support | 16:51 |
| eharney | snapshotting is done via qcow2 files on the file system, and is handled by Cinder in the online case and Nova (coordinating with Cinder) in the online case | 16:51 |
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| DuncanT- | eharney: I've not read the code, but how does cinder ask nova to do the assistance? | 16:52 |
| JM1 | eharney: maybe you mean "by cinder in the offline case" ? | 16:52 |
| eharney | DuncanT-: currently, the snapshot process is initiated by Nova | 16:52 |
| DuncanT- | eharney: So this isn't a normal cinder snapshot-create --force?? | 16:53 |
| eharney | DuncanT-: there will be follow-up to hava Cinder initiate Nova's snapshotting since this is required to do a live snap for online clone | 16:53 |
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| eharney | no | 16:53 |
| eharney | when the volume is attached, Nova/libvirt will quiesce and create a snapshot via libvirt/qemu | 16:53 |
| winston-1 | eharney: that nova initiated snapshot sounds like instance-snapshot instead of volume snapshot? | 16:53 |
| eharney | this is coordinated with cinder by creating a snapshot record w/o calling the driver snapshot code | 16:54 |
| eharney | JM1: not attached | 16:54 |
| JM1 | eharney: ok | 16:54 |
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| eharney | winston-1: no, it is volume snapshots, but you get features like a) VM is snapped so all volume snapshots are at the same time b) VM is quiesced | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: +1 | 16:55 |
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| eharney | not sure i follow | 16:56 |
| winston-1 | eharney: curious how does cinder notify nova to quiesces all IO on that volume | 16:56 |
| eharney | winston-1: currently, Nova initiates the snapshot process and calls cinderclient to create the snaps | 16:56 |
| eharney | winston-1: in the future Cinder will need to be able to call into Nova via a new API | 16:56 |
| eharney | since we need cinder to notify nova for cases like cinder volume clone | 16:56 |
| winston-1 | eharney: no, volume snapshot is initiated by cinder | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | eharney: so I have an off question I'd like to ask folks here | 16:56 |
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| jgriffith | eharney: this is really something specific to Gluster and possibly NFS shared/fs systems no? | 16:57 |
| DuncanT- | winston-1: I think he's doing it the other way as a PoC | 16:57 |
| eharney | DuncanT-: right | 16:57 |
| eharney | jgriffith: it's specific to remote file systems that you mount | 16:57 |
| eharney | jgriffith: so, i'm starting on gluster | 16:57 |
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| eharney | but this should be ported to the NFS driver and other similar ones as well | 16:58 |
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| bswartz | jgriffith: VMware/VMFS too perhaps | 16:58 |
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| jgriffith | eharney: so... | 16:58 |
| eharney | which is why i was asking earlier who we think is on the hook for NFS minimum feature reqs | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: what's the deal with shares project? | 16:58 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: we're still working on launching it | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | sighh | 16:58 |
| bswartz | we haven't been able to choose a name yet and that's blocking some things | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | haha! | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: are you guys working with anybody else on this | 16:59 |
| hemna | :) | 16:59 |
| thingee | bswartz: caring - sharing is caring | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: ie like eharney ? | 16:59 |
| bswartz | right now it's mostly RedHat and NetApp | 16:59 |
| eharney | i'd like for anyone interested to check out https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38225/ and see if i'm crazy | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | thingee: nice! | 16:59 |
| JM1 | and as we all know, naming things is a tough problem in CS | 16:59 |
| bswartz | we're trying to get IBM involved | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | eharney: sorry... wasn't intending to derail your topic | 16:59 |
| bswartz | once we have a name we can get a IRC channel and start holding meetings and all those nice things | 16:59 |
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| hemna | that's why I usually end up with variable names like 'ass' for a while. | 16:59 |
| thingee | time's up | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | eharney: real quick | 17:00 |
| eharney | but yes it is on my plate to work on shares service w.r.t. gluster support, but i haven't been active on it lately | 17:00 |
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| jgriffith | eharney: so I'm ok with moving forward obviously (we've talked) | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | eharney: but we need to figure something out long term | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | eharney: more and more of these things are going to come up | 17:00 |
| med_ | "Sharing is Caring" | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | eharney: for now I say extensions for them are probably fine etc | 17:01 |
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| jgriffith | ok | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | guess we'll end | 17:01 |
| eharney | jgriffith: nothing about this is gluster-specific really. i think it makes sense for the class of remote-mounted file system drivers | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | #end meeting cinder | 17:01 |
| esker | thingee: do you indemnify us from any trademarks you hold on "caring" if we go w/ that? | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | eharney: ohhh... I agree with that | 17:01 |
| avishay | bye all! | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | eharney: I mean shared, not Gluster specfic | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting cinder | 17:02 |
| winston-1 | avishay: bye | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 24 17:02:14 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-07-24-16.04.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-07-24-16.04.txt | 17:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-07-24-16.04.log.html | 17:02 |
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| Vivek | Nice meeting you all | 17:02 |
| Vivek | I am Vivek Cherian | 17:02 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time. anyone here? | 19:00 |
| * creiht is here but a bit distracted | 19:00 | |
| torgomatic | yo | 19:00 |
| peluse | yup | 19:00 |
| notmyname | creiht: no worries. I'm sitting in the middle of the expo hall at oscon ;-) | 19:00 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 24 19:00:48 2013 UTC. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:00 |
| davidhadas | hi | 19:00 |
| notmyname | welcome | 19:01 |
| notmyname | glad you can make it | 19:01 |
| notmyname | (and I hope there are more here than the 4 that responded) | 19:01 |
| yuanz | notmyname, hi | 19:01 |
| notmyname | topics to discuss this week: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 19:01 |
| notmyname | (not in order) | 19:01 |
| notmyname | so first up, a swift hackathon | 19:01 |
| * swifterdarrell is here | 19:02 | |
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| notmyname | since so many of the swift contributors will not be able to make it to hong kong, we're going to have a swift hackathon in Austin in Octobor | 19:02 |
| peluse | how's the humidity in Austin in Oct? | 19:02 |
| notmyname | the purpose is for coding on swift, not for presentations | 19:02 |
| notmyname | peluse: worse than phoenix :-) | 19:02 |
| peluse | well, I guess we'll make it anyway :) | 19:03 |
| portante | here | 19:03 |
| notmyname | it will be pretty small (~30 people total) | 19:03 |
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| creiht | October is usually pretty nice in Texas | 19:03 |
| * portante scrounges around to find a big texas hat | 19:04 | |
| notmyname | I'll have a public link and invite for the next meeting. I wanted to let people know it's coming though :-) | 19:04 |
| * creiht doesn't have a big texas hat | 19:04 | |
| notmyname | I'm also hoping that since it's in austin, several (all?) of the rax contributors will be able to make it | 19:04 |
| * portante found my wife's 40th birthday pink texas hat, puts it back right away ... | 19:04 | |
| notmyname | since they don't like going to openstack summits ;-) | 19:04 |
| notmyname | portante: yikes | 19:04 |
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| notmyname | swiftstack will be sponsoring it. we'll provide a place, some tables, whiteboards, wifi, and some food. | 19:05 |
| * creiht can make no promises ;) | 19:05 | |
| portante | will you have specific coding topics? | 19:05 |
| torgomatic | to be fair, the annoyance of travel is super-linear in the duration of the journey | 19:05 |
| notmyname | portante: "make swift better" :-) | 19:06 |
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| notmyname | ok, moving on | 19:06 |
| swifterdarrell | notmyname: portante: presumably tasks which require/benefit from collaboration would be ideal | 19:06 |
| peluse | I've not been to one of these things, what are the basic logistics (duration, agenda, etc) or you can just cover that in the invite if you're ready to move on to the next topic | 19:06 |
| notmyname | peluse: it'll be covered in an invite | 19:07 |
| notmyname | #topic enable versioned writes | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "enable versioned writes (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:07 | |
| notmyname | Enable versioned writes by default? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36979/ | 19:07 |
| creiht | no | 19:07 |
| creiht | :) | 19:07 |
| notmyname | this patch was submitted to allow versioned writes to be turned on by default | 19:07 |
| creiht | so my question was why not configure devstack to enable it, if they want to test it? | 19:07 |
| notmyname | I don't care about the devstack question in the patch comments | 19:07 |
| peluse | brief recap of pros vs cons? | 19:07 |
| swifterdarrell | +1 on not enabling it by default; deployers can turn it on if users want it, right? | 19:08 |
| notmyname | the larger question was raised about when if ever should a feature be changed to be enabled or disabled | 19:08 |
| portante | swifterdarrell: agreed | 19:08 |
| torgomatic | I like the idea; I'm not a fan of software that has a bunch of options you have to set in order to get the goodies | 19:08 |
| notmyname | pros: people tend to use defautls | 19:08 |
| cschwede | +1 not on by default | 19:08 |
| notmyname | cons: it's not currently on, so by doing nothing deployers who upgrade will get a new feature | 19:08 |
| creiht | cons: people tend to not read release notes | 19:08 |
| swifterdarrell | the defaults of the codebase don't (shouldn't) exist to enforce some kind of policy on deployers; (I guess you could say deployers NOT wanting it could opt out... but I think it's better for existing deployments to be opt-in for changes) | 19:08 |
| notmyname | swifterdarrell: which is exactly why it was disabled to start with | 19:09 |
| portante | yes, and for this feature, if it ends up miss-used it could use up a lot of storage, right? | 19:09 |
| notmyname | portante: ya | 19:09 |
| notmyname | "could" | 19:09 |
| portante | could, agreed | 19:09 |
| peluse | I'm not versed on the feature but what siwftdarrell says sure makes sense | 19:10 |
| zaitcev | Presumably owners of large clusters are more careful than that, but having to adjust configs for updates is unpleasnt. | 19:10 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: one would think so ;-) | 19:10 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: maybe creiht doesn't read release notes ;-) | 19:10 |
| notmyname | but "well they should have read the notes" isn't a good reason | 19:10 |
| * creiht is just observing human nature | 19:11 | |
| swifterdarrell | If defaults aren't meant to be used, then don't have them--require every setting to have a specified value. If defaults ARE meant to be used, don't change them on deployers | 19:11 |
| * notmyname is just teasing creiht | 19:11 | |
| swifterdarrell | How hard is that? | 19:11 |
| davidhadas | I think it would make sense to keep this one disabled by default - whoever enables it should know what he is doing | 19:11 |
| swifterdarrell | reallly | 19:11 |
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| creiht | but then if we decide to do that, we would have to go through and first define what a "default" cluster should be first | 19:11 |
| * portante still fascinated by a pink texas hat ... | 19:11 | |
| creiht | :) | 19:11 |
| cschwede | davidhadas: exactly! | 19:11 |
| zaitcev | Default cluster is RAX | 19:11 |
| notmyname | creiht: don't you mean your "evil chuck" face? | 19:11 |
| zaitcev | Or even "Historic CF" | 19:12 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: I hope not | 19:12 |
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| notmyname | dfg: redbo: any opinion on enabling versioned writes by default? | 19:12 |
| redbo | No real opinion. We run with it on already. | 19:13 |
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| notmyname | ok | 19:14 |
| notmyname | thanks | 19:14 |
| dfg | um- i think we run it. why would that feature be on and non of the others? except dlobjects i guess | 19:14 |
| dfg | i think both of those would be better as middleware though | 19:14 |
| dfg | but no strong opinions | 19:14 |
| dfg | is there a reason for it? | 19:15 |
| dfg | to be on by default? | 19:15 |
| notmyname | dfg: that people use defaults, and turning it on means that more people will use it. the question was raised in a patch | 19:15 |
| torgomatic | does anyone know if it's on in the sample configs? | 19:15 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: the samples reflect the defaults | 19:16 |
| dfg | if they want to start using it wouldn't they jsut turn it on? | 19:16 |
| creiht | the sample configs should all have the defaults as examples | 19:16 |
| swifterdarrell | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36979/1 | 19:16 |
| creiht | I think it is a lot safer for a deployer to find out they don't have a feature deployed, but they can just enable it | 19:17 |
| dfg | can we vote as to whether obj versioning and dynamic large object should be yanked out of the proxy server and made middleware? the proxy server code is really complicated and that would help clen it up some | 19:17 |
| dfg | s/some/a lot | 19:17 |
| creiht | rather than for a deployer that knows they don't have it enabled, suddenly have it enabled | 19:17 |
| notmyname | dfg: I think that vote comes as the review on the patch to do it :-) | 19:17 |
| swifterdarrell | creiht: ++ | 19:17 |
| notmyname | dfg: but I'd support that | 19:17 |
| davidhadas | notmyname: more pepole will be facing capacity problems by this without undertsanding why putting same objects again and agin eats up capacity. | 19:18 |
| notmyname | creiht: ya, which is why I originally marked it as -1. | 19:18 |
| dfg | not really- it would inform this decision. making obj versioning on by default makes splitting it out a bigger change | 19:18 |
| notmyname | dfg: middleware isn't a feature flag, though (although it can kinda be used for that) | 19:19 |
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| notmyname | dfg: but it seems that the question goes away since most of us are leaning to not enabling it | 19:19 |
| dfg | ok | 19:19 |
| notmyname | ok, thanks for that | 19:20 |
| creiht | changing config defaults shouldn't happen, except for a very good reason | 19:20 |
| notmyname | #topic json | 19:20 |
| notmyname | Get rid of simplejson and use stdlib json? Apparently the APIs are slightly different; see https://gist.github.com/smerritt/6066977 and https://review.openstack.org/38014 for details. | 19:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "json (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:20 | |
| notmyname | torgomatic: ^ | 19:20 |
| creiht | no | 19:20 |
| creiht | :) | 19:20 |
| creiht | short story is: the built in json never got the c speedups that are in simplejson | 19:20 |
| torgomatic | simplejson doesn't work with PyPy | 19:20 |
| portante | creiht: we want pypy | 19:20 |
| gholt | Can't we support both? I thought we had been all this time? | 19:21 |
| creiht | so I don't think the answer is to make cpython use the slower library | 19:21 |
| portante | is the json stuff on the common path? | 19:21 |
| portante | do we really need them? | 19:21 |
| torgomatic | gholt: kind of? | 19:21 |
| torgomatic | all the tests run against simplejson all the time | 19:21 |
| creiht | seems like there should be a better way to fix it | 19:21 |
| dfg | ya- i like keeping simplejson too | 19:22 |
| portante | but what about the majority of requests that swift handle? | 19:22 |
| torgomatic | also, I don't like simplejson's api | 19:22 |
| creiht | torgomatic: wait, what? json *is* and older version of simplejson | 19:22 |
| dfg | seems like a lot of cost for a small gain | 19:22 |
| torgomatic | sometimes you get str, sometimes you get unicode... hope your code is okay with both types | 19:22 |
| creiht | oh that part | 19:22 |
| torgomatic | creiht: they diverged, unfortunately | 19:22 |
| portante | if we need simplejson for performance, worth the discussion, but if we keep pypy out because of simplejson, we are dropping potential performance improvements on the floor | 19:23 |
| torgomatic | at least stdlib json gives you the same type all the time | 19:23 |
| torgomatic | otherwise you get bugs where something 500s when a param is non-ASCII UTF-8 | 19:23 |
| creiht | or we could fix simplejson if it is an issue? | 19:23 |
| gholt | creiht: By recompiling the C code? ;) | 19:23 |
| redbo | I think we should use ujson | 19:24 |
| creiht | lol | 19:24 |
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| * portante bites, googles ujson | 19:24 | |
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| swifterdarrell | would an API adapter in swift which presents a common API w/either stdlib or simplejson under the hood be too crazy? | 19:25 |
| portante | does ujson work with pypy? | 19:25 |
| dfg | lets do what we always do- write our own json parser !! | 19:25 |
| redbo | no idea, I just wanted to be different | 19:25 |
| torgomatic | swifterdarrell: it might work, but only if that adapter doesn't make things slower than just using stdlib json | 19:25 |
| dfg | :) | 19:25 |
| redbo | swifterdarrell: that seems like the way to go | 19:26 |
| swifterdarrell | torgomatic: you would avoid, for instance, looking at all the data and making sure it's Unicode for consistency | 19:26 |
| dfg | swifterdarrell: +1 i'd think it wouldn't be too hard to do right? | 19:26 |
| swifterdarrell | torgomatic: that's API ugliness, but I'd make that trade-off for speed (or, rather, keep making it) | 19:27 |
| portante | seems like extra work for what kind of performance gain for cpython? | 19:27 |
| creiht | swifterdarrell: isn't there something like that in oslo? :) | 19:27 |
| swifterdarrell | lololol | 19:27 |
| creiht | or how about we help patch simplejson to fix api issues | 19:28 |
| gholt | If the performance sucks that bad for us, I guess we can maintain a fork. But I totally do NOT want to do that. | 19:28 |
| creiht | then we can run with either simplejson or json as is | 19:28 |
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| torgomatic | creiht: you think the simplejson guys will take API-changing patches? seems like that could hose their users pretty effectively | 19:28 |
| torgomatic | but then, I don't know if they're sticklers for that sort of thing | 19:29 |
| swifterdarrell | portante: Good question... but who's going to spend the time collecting solid numbers? the folks who want to keep what we have or the folks who want to make it some unknown amount slower? | 19:29 |
| creiht | torgomatic: if it makes it the same as json? not sure how that would be bad | 19:29 |
| creiht | it doesn't hurt to try | 19:29 |
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| creiht | and seems like the least sucky if you can | 19:29 |
| torgomatic | creiht: ask the guy getting errors when running w/stdlib json under pypy :) | 19:29 |
| zaitcev | Look at Alex' patch, Chuck. It's not something you can patch. The problem is that they have gone to the approved Python 3 model of handing strings. Once there nobody's going back and they'll continue returning unicode strings. | 19:29 |
| dfg | has anybody shown that pypy would really even be that much faster? | 19:29 |
| creiht | torgomatic: not my problem, everything works for me :) | 19:29 |
| notmyname | seems like a bad attitude to have | 19:30 |
| creiht | I think running pypy with swift is neat, it doesn't warrent bending over backwards (at the cost of the normal implementation) to fix | 19:30 |
| dfg | creiht: +1 | 19:30 |
| creiht | zaitcev: ahh that's a completly different issue then | 19:30 |
| dfg | like- don't we have bigger fish to fry? | 19:31 |
| torgomatic | also, we've got code in utils that imports simplejson, then falls back to json | 19:31 |
| torgomatic | if we're not going to work with stdlib json, let's rip that bit out | 19:31 |
| portante | are we concerned with json parsing or generating speed? | 19:31 |
| torgomatic | "uses A or B except that it crashes with B" is crappy | 19:31 |
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| notmyname | torgomatic: +1 that's bad | 19:32 |
| creiht | torgomatic: that was done a long time ago (likely when the json api and simplejson api probably didn't diverge) | 19:32 |
| notmyname | creiht: so the question is do we rip out json? | 19:32 |
| torgomatic | creiht: I' | 19:32 |
| torgomatic | m sure it was fine when it was done, but it rotted | 19:32 |
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| creiht | I'm just providing context | 19:32 |
| torgomatic | sure | 19:33 |
| notmyname | portante: from what I see the issue is the it breaks with json right now | 19:33 |
| portante | but we can fix that | 19:33 |
| torgomatic | so, if we go with stdlib json, it makes things easier in N years' time when Swift ends up supporting python 3, as I don't think simplejson works w/py3 | 19:33 |
| creiht | if someone has that itch, let them scratch it :) | 19:33 |
| creiht | for now, I can't see how we can ditch simplejson | 19:34 |
| creiht | torgomatic: there are going to me *so* many more difficult issues when it comes to supporting python3 | 19:34 |
| torgomatic | creiht: absolutely true | 19:34 |
| torgomatic | but I'd rather not pile on any others if we can help it | 19:34 |
| notmyname | so the options are either patching simplejson or writing an adaptor layer, right? did I miss another one? | 19:35 |
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| creiht | that's fine with me as long as it doesn't come at a cost for the current implementation | 19:35 |
| redbo | we'll need to eventually make every string in swift into unicode instead of utf-8 | 19:35 |
| redbo | well, except where it's dealing with actual file data | 19:36 |
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| zaitcev | That's the Python 3 model | 19:37 |
| torgomatic | alright, I'll hack up an adapter layer thing and do some synthetic benchmarks | 19:37 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:38 |
| zaitcev | It breaks down in WSGI so bad, you would've belive | 19:38 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: thanks | 19:38 |
| notmyname | moving on.. | 19:38 |
| portante | torgomatic: can you also engage Alex_Gaynor to check against pypy speed? | 19:38 |
| notmyname | #topic erasure codes questions | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "erasure codes questions (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:38 | |
| redbo | it's not a bad python 2 model either. the wsgi part isn't that bad, the problem is just how much code we'll have to verify works okay when unicodes start appearing where theere used to be strs. | 19:38 |
| torgomatic | portante: for json stuff? sure, once I have the benchmarks written | 19:39 |
| portante | great | 19:39 |
| portante | thx | 19:39 |
| notmyname | since our last meeting, we've talked more about erasure codes. are there questions that need to be discussed here (rather than just "normal" IRC questions)? | 19:39 |
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| yuanz | notmyname, can we merge this patch(Forklift the DiskFile interface into it's own module) into the EC branch? | 19:39 |
| notmyname | yuanz: ya, I can do that | 19:40 |
| zaitcev | Why not. As I understand EC does not place unusual demands on DiskFile. | 19:40 |
| notmyname | yuanz: I'll do it as soon as the meeting is done | 19:40 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: the hope is that master will get merged into the ec branch frequently so they don't diverge | 19:41 |
| zaitcev | ah, ok | 19:41 |
| peluse | notmyname: I was going to about "frequency", weekly? | 19:41 |
| notmyname | peluse: it's a matter of me pressing a button. I haven't set up a schedule for it. IMo it should be at lest weekly, if not more often | 19:42 |
| vvechkanov | notmyname: Can I ask about our plans for reduce cross region replication traffic? | 19:42 |
| notmyname | vvechkanov: ya, just a minute | 19:42 |
| notmyname | anything else on ec? | 19:42 |
| zaitcev | EC is fascinating, but as I understand Joe Arnold has already arrayed significant forces against it alread, so I don't feel compelled to help along. It's bound to happen in due time... | 19:42 |
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| notmyname | zaitcev: against? | 19:43 |
| portante | who is joe arnold and why should we care? | 19:43 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: we're pushing it and writing it :-) | 19:43 |
| zaitcev | Yea, I mean like attacking the problem | 19:43 |
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| notmyname | #topic open discussion | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:43 | |
| notmyname | vvechkanov: go ahead | 19:43 |
| vvechkanov | Hello all. I have a question about swift replication. I think it is good idea to reduce traffic between regions. For that we can modify replication to prefer replicate in local region, than in foreighn one. | 19:44 |
| notmyname | vvechkanov: like the read and write affinity? | 19:44 |
| vvechkanov | Yes. | 19:44 |
| * portante sheepishly crawls back under his pink texas hat | 19:44 | |
| notmyname | seems like it makes sense to me | 19:45 |
| notmyname | vvechkanov: it would depend on the particular patch, I'd think | 19:45 |
| notmyname | vvechkanov: but the point of the replication is to provide the high durability | 19:45 |
| notmyname | hmm...I withdraw my previous statement abotu it making sense | 19:46 |
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| notmyname | if you are looking at it from a "replicate to the copies in the same region instead of using the WAN link" that makes sense to me | 19:46 |
| torgomatic | seems to me that if you're going to replicate data, you should replicate it to where the proxy will look for it, not to some other place | 19:46 |
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| notmyname | keeping all replicas in a region doesn't | 19:46 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: ya, a 2 region, 3 replica system maybe should prefer to keep the 2 copies on the one region in sync with each other? | 19:47 |
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| notmyname | for the data move (not checks) | 19:47 |
| dfg | shouldn't this be a subject for a different time? | 19:47 |
| dfg | like when i'm not around :) | 19:47 |
| vvechkanov | We planning to replicate every step in one regions and one in some, for example 10 steps replicate to other regions. | 19:48 |
| torgomatic | ./kick dfg problem solved ;) | 19:48 |
| swifterdarrell | heh, there's already enough confusion about what happens to PUTs to one region with write affinity enabled... I can't imagine how bad it'd be with cross-region replication further interfered with.. | 19:48 |
| * swifterdarrell shrugs | 19:48 | |
| notmyname | vvechkanov: I don't understand what that means | 19:48 |
| notmyname | vvechkanov: since replication is pushed base and doesn't share state between the nodes, I'm not sure how it would work | 19:49 |
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| dfg | oh- i missed the open-discussion tag. sorry :) | 19:49 |
| vvechkanov | I mean replication in region will be more often then cross-region replication. | 19:50 |
| zaitcev | What is Havana schedule? | 19:50 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: october-ish? | 19:50 |
| ogelbukh | notmyname: filter out nodes from foreign regions in replicator for every run except every 10th | 19:51 |
| zaitcev | I really need to know how aggressive I need to be with DB broker, because if LFS misses Havana, then I'm fired | 19:51 |
| notmyname | ogelbukh: ah ok | 19:51 |
| ogelbukh | basically that's a simpliest(?) approach we could imagine | 19:51 |
| zaitcev | Peter seems good with DiskFile, he's gonna make it by October I'm sure | 19:51 |
| ogelbukh | or may be just easiest | 19:52 |
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| ogelbukh | as in easy vs simple | 19:52 |
| notmyname | ogelbukh: sounds like it would work. I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not. I don't think I'd be too comfortable running that way. others may be | 19:52 |
| zaitcev | Simple, but seems asking for tweaking the ratio, which is an extra knob. | 19:53 |
| swifterdarrell | ogelbukh: vvechkanov: couldn't you achieve similar results with network-level QoS/shaping on a separate cross-region replication network, possibly with a higher object-replicator concurrency level? | 19:53 |
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| swifterdarrell | ogelbukh: vvechkanov: I thought the point of the sep. replication network was to allow control of that traffic flow outside of Swift | 19:54 |
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| ogelbukh | swifterdarrell: it was and it still is | 19:55 |
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| swifterdarrell | sweet! no patch needed | 19:56 |
| ogelbukh | ) | 19:56 |
| notmyname | anything else in the last 4 minutes? | 19:56 |
| swifterdarrell | I'll +2 almost any zero-line patch | 19:56 |
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| notmyname | if you're looking for reviews, the acount-acls one could use some eyes | 19:57 |
| notmyname | there's a ton of others too | 19:57 |
| zaitcev | That one is complex. | 19:57 |
| notmyname | thanks for your time | 19:57 |
| notmyname | ya | 19:58 |
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| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 24 19:58:25 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-07-24-19.00.html | 19:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-07-24-19.00.txt | 19:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-07-24-19.00.log.html | 19:58 |
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| shardy | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 24 20:00:16 2013 UTC. The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| shardy | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| zaneb | o/ | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | yop | 20:00 |
| shardy | Hi all, who's around :) | 20:00 |
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| randallburt | hi | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 20:00 |
| tspatzier | Hi | 20:00 |
| timductive | Hi | 20:00 |
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| shardy | sdake, therve, jpeeler? | 20:01 |
| therve | Hi! | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS? | 20:01 |
| shardy | good catch stevebaker ;) | 20:02 |
| shardy | Oh well, lets make a start | 20:02 |
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| shardy | #topic Review last week's actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
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| shardy | So thanks to stevebaker for doing meetings etc while I was away :) | 20:03 |
| radix | oh, heya | 20:03 |
| jpeeler | oh hi | 20:03 |
| shardy | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-07-17-20.00.html | 20:03 |
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| shardy | #info action stevebaker to start mission discussion on list | 20:03 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: did that happen, I didn't spot it but behind on the ML backlog.. | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | I have a draft, should we have a quick bikeshed here https://etherpad.openstack.org/heat-mission | 20:04 |
| shardy | I missed the context on this, who's asking for this? | 20:04 |
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| stevebaker | the board, heat is now the OpenStack Orchestration program | 20:05 |
| topol | short and sweet :-) | 20:05 |
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| asalkeld | do we need to mention templates? | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | all programs need to come up with a mission statement | 20:05 |
| shardy | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/heat-mission | 20:05 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: orly? can we call ourselves OpenStack(TM) Orchestration now? | 20:06 |
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| stevebaker | which I'm interpreting to mean define "what we do", not "what value do we offer" | 20:06 |
| randallburt | added some small input for clarity, but looks good to me | 20:06 |
| topol | why couldnt we before? | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | heat is a project within the OpenStack Orchestration program | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | program is what people do, not what they produce | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | I'd like to get something about the lifecycle of applications in there, heat is not just launch and forget | 20:07 |
| topol | I like your mission statement | 20:07 |
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| randallburt | stevebaker: how about that? | 20:08 |
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| stevebaker | maybe "configuration" is redundant? | 20:08 |
| topol | I like that you explicitly call out configuration. Thats a big deal | 20:08 |
| radix | stevebaker: what does "openstack resources" mean in this context? | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | I think is ok | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | it is | 20:09 |
| topol | +1 | 20:09 |
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| stevebaker | radix: anything that can be invoked via an openstack API | 20:09 |
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| stevebaker | that looks good to me | 20:10 |
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| stevebaker | arg | 20:10 |
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| randallburt | needs more commas | 20:10 |
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| shardy | "management of applications on those resources" could just be "management of those resources" | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, | 20:10 |
| randallburt | thanks ;) | 20:10 |
| shardy | since we're IaaS focussed | 20:10 |
| radix | shardy: different meaning of resources, I think | 20:10 |
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| shardy | I just want to avoid saying we're an application (PaaS) management solution | 20:11 |
| radix | does heat orchestrate openstack, or applications on top of openstack? | 20:11 |
| shardy | but otherwise looks good | 20:11 |
| randallburt | one could argue that "configuration" would include software, but I'm not fussed | 20:11 |
| shardy | radix: depends on your definition of applications I guess | 20:11 |
| topol | radix, Im hoping both | 20:11 |
| randallburt | radix: if SpamapS and OOO has their way, the answer is "yes" | 20:12 |
| radix | like when I see "enable the orchestration of OpenStack resources" it seems like that could be misinterpreted as what OOO is | 20:12 |
| stevebaker | "support the..." implies that we can pass off to some other configuration mechanism | 20:12 |
| radix | randallburt: well, yes, but isn't that a separate program? | 20:12 |
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| therve | +1 for sending and ML discussion | 20:12 |
| shardy | the main think is, internally, Heat doesn't care about what you deploy, whereas a PaaS has to, due to e.g versions for the application containers it provides | 20:12 |
| radix | :) | 20:12 |
| stevebaker | yup, shardy want to send it? | 20:12 |
| randallburt | radix: well, yes. and Heat would just be a means to an end for them. | 20:12 |
| shardy | Yeah, lets move on and pick it up on the ML | 20:13 |
| randallburt | therve: +1 | 20:13 |
| radix | randallburt: right, I understand. so we need our program descriptions to be distinct | 20:13 |
| shardy | stevebaker: can do, sure | 20:13 |
| radix | yeah, this conversation is getting sprawly | 20:13 |
| shardy | #action shardy to send mission ML statement | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | yay for etherpad though | 20:13 |
| shardy | Yeah, thanks stevebaker for getting things rolling | 20:13 |
| shardy | #topic Documentation | 20:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Documentation (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:14 | |
| stevebaker | today I will learn how to write a sphinx extension | 20:14 |
| radix | woo | 20:14 |
| shardy | So I see this is carried over from last meeting - need to get the docs sprint organised | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | for resource doc generation | 20:14 |
| shardy | Anyone got anything to raise re Docs other than we need to write lots of them very soon? ;) | 20:15 |
| stevebaker | shardy: set it for after h-3, since we'll be in some form of feature freeze after that | 20:15 |
| therve | Can we get rid of the docs directory? | 20:15 |
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| annegentle | o/ | 20:15 |
| randallburt | how is the wadl maintained? is it manual? | 20:15 |
| shardy | stevebaker: agree, we've got too much in h3 already | 20:15 |
| randallburt | we said "docs" too many times ;) | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | randallburt: I believe so | 20:16 |
| shardy | annegentle: hi | 20:16 |
| annegentle | randallburt: manual is typical for all the other projects. Neutron had an attempt at automation but the manual way was quicker and more accurate | 20:16 |
| annegentle | heh | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | annegentle, any reason heat is missing from here: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/openstack-projects.html | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | our api is too simple to justify automatic generation | 20:17 |
| annegentle | asalkeld: just patch openstack-manuals/www/developer/index.html | 20:17 |
| annegentle | stevebaker: +1 | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | ok | 20:17 |
| randallburt | annegentle: cool. figured that was the case. Just wondered if we needed a task to make sure its still accurate and new things were added | 20:17 |
| shardy | It would be nice if there was some way to automatically generate API docs and resource schema documentation | 20:17 |
| topol | annegentle, I noticed a lot of the architecture pictures have not been updated to have heat and ceilometer | 20:17 |
| topol | as core | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | shardy: that is what I am working on today | 20:17 |
| annegentle | shardy: sure would be but then which would be truth? :) | 20:17 |
| shardy | annegentle: If it's generated from code then the docs always match the code, surely? | 20:18 |
| annegentle | topol: I have been thinking about that a lot, and I'm going to send an OpenStack program description for docs to the -dev list today | 20:18 |
| shardy | stevebaker: awesome :) | 20:18 |
| stevebaker | zaneb has written api docs, it just needs to be merged into api-site | 20:18 |
| annegentle | in it, I have to draw a line between core and integrated. So I'm not sure how to address things like arch diagrams maintenance and updates. | 20:18 |
| annegentle | shardy: but what if the code is wrong? | 20:18 |
| zaneb | someone should probably compile them first too ;) | 20:18 |
| shardy | annegentle: auto-generated docs != specification, but yea I see your point | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: maybe gating compiles it for you? | 20:19 |
| shardy | all that java stuff is really hideous | 20:19 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: let's go with that :) | 20:19 |
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| shardy | Anyway, any other docs stuff before we move on? | 20:20 |
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| annegentle | shardy: thanks for having docs on the agenda! | 20:20 |
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| shardy | annegentle: thanks for pointing us in the right direction, hopefully we'll start making progress after h3 | 20:21 |
| shardy | #topic h3 blueprint milestone and priority | 20:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "h3 blueprint milestone and priority (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:21 | |
| annegentle | oh one other note, there are changes to the Heat cli docs at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37328/ | 20:21 |
| annegentle | nothing major, but want to point out they are being maintained/freshened | 20:22 |
| shardy | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-3 | 20:22 |
| radix | I am pushing to have a WIP review up for my instance-group refactor today | 20:22 |
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| shardy | radix: sounds good | 20:23 |
| shardy | so we really have a lot of BPs compared to h1 and h2 | 20:23 |
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| shardy | guess we'll all be busy, but if things are going to slip, best to flag it early and start untargetting them | 20:24 |
| shardy | Anyone have any issues re h3 bp or bugs they want to raise? | 20:25 |
| randallburt | asalkeld, zaneb should we go another round on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36744/ or can I move on to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/update-stack-new-resource-state | 20:25 |
| therve | I've been thinking about load balancer lately | 20:25 |
| therve | I wonder if we could squeeze improvements to it in h3? | 20:25 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 20:25 |
| SpamapS | sorry lunch went long | 20:25 |
| shardy | therve: I thought we were going to move to the neutron lbaas rather than polishing what we have? | 20:26 |
| zaneb | randallburt: you were going to fix up the Output.* stuff | 20:26 |
| therve | shardy, That's one side of it, yeah. It's not in h3 either, though | 20:26 |
| randallburt | +1 on neutron lbaas over tweaking AWS resource | 20:26 |
| randallburt | zaneb: oh, yes. I have that in a branch but forgot because I've been out/busy on other stuff. I'll get that submitted before COB today | 20:27 |
| shardy | therve: If people are prepared to work on stuff, and they can realistically deliver it then we can consider putting it in h3 | 20:27 |
| therve | I've been looking at it, but neutron makes me angry | 20:27 |
| therve | shardy, Cool, thanks | 20:27 |
| randallburt | therve: lol. indeed | 20:27 |
| zaneb | randallburt: ok, when that is done I think I am happy | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | I'd like something that can be tempest tested. building the image that the nested stack uses is a barrier right now | 20:27 |
| randallburt | zaneb: roger that, and thanks! | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | randallburt, I'll work on this too sometime https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38285/ | 20:27 |
| shardy | the lbaas stuff I didn't put in havana because I was not really sure if it's mature enough to integrate with yet | 20:27 |
| randallburt | asalkeld: awesome. I really like the concept there. | 20:28 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: I believe we will be pushing to host several different images for infra as we move pieces of tripleo into the gate | 20:28 |
| zaneb | randallburt: but quit with the double underscores anyway ;) | 20:28 |
| therve | Yeah I don't know about the implementation. The interface ought to be, though | 20:28 |
| asalkeld | we really need to have a way of marking resources (deprecated, prototype, supported) | 20:28 |
| randallburt | zaneb: understood ;D | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: can you keep me up to date on that? I'll be getting devstack to generate images as soon as I can package dib | 20:29 |
| randallburt | asalkeld would that be something to do with stevebaker's sphinx extension? | 20:29 |
| asalkeld | not sure | 20:29 |
| randallburt | or would you want it as something query-able via the api? | 20:29 |
| randallburt | probably both, I'd assume | 20:29 |
| asalkeld | I think both | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | once the metadata is there it can be exposed however | 20:30 |
| therve | As a result of API calls would be even better | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | nice to have a an arg --only-use-production-ready-resources | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | we need a way of flagging which type is the primary one too, OS::Quantum:: vs OS::Neutron | 20:30 |
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| randallburt | IIRC there are already bps around a "catalog" of resources; cba to remember specifics atm, but might be worth a look | 20:31 |
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| asalkeld | (maybe yet another blueprint) | 20:31 |
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| randallburt | and probably not h3, yes? | 20:32 |
| randallburt | considering the existing backlog and all | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | yea | 20:32 |
| shardy | IMO there are more pressing things to do in h3 | 20:32 |
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| asalkeld | everyone has their own priorities | 20:33 |
| shardy | Ok, one last thing, if anyone has too much assigned to them, please unassign yourself, then if people are looking for stuff to do they can pick it up | 20:33 |
| shardy | asalkeld: yea true | 20:33 |
| randallburt | agreed, but I can take an action to groom the bp backlog around this topic if you like | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | groom away! | 20:34 |
| shardy | #action randallburt bp grooming | 20:34 |
| shardy | anything else on h3? | 20:34 |
| randallburt | around the resource catalog, I mean ;) | 20:34 |
| shardy | #topic #undo | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "#undo (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:35 | |
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| shardy | #action randallburt resource catalog bp grooming | 20:35 |
| randallburt | thanks ;) | 20:35 |
| shardy | #topic Removal/moving of heat-boto/heat-cfn/heat-watch client tools | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Removal/moving of heat-boto/heat-cfn/heat-watch client tools (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:35 | |
| stevebaker | so | 20:35 |
| shardy | sdake: around? | 20:36 |
| shardy | stevebaker: go for it ;) | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | I've submitted that heat-cfnclient be a new repo to house heat-cfn, heat-boto, heat-watch | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | and moved them out of the core repo | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | I think sdake was against putting in a separate project | 20:37 |
| shardy | stevebaker: I don't really mind where they live provided they still exist | 20:37 |
| shardy | sdake had some strong opinions on the matter yesterday | 20:37 |
| SpamapS | they're just tools for testing the cfn apis? | 20:37 |
| jpeeler | what's the reason to move it? | 20:37 |
| stevebaker | my position is that they should still exist, they should have python releases, but we should encourage distro packages not to package them | 20:37 |
| shardy | SpamapS: yep | 20:37 |
| * SpamapS has never used them | 20:37 | |
| shardy | stevebaker: that sounds fine - sdake seemed to indicated if we moved them to a separate repo that downstream distros would be somehow obligated to package and document them | 20:38 |
| shardy | I didn't quite get to the bottom of why | 20:38 |
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| SpamapS | they sound like decent things to have in heat proper as sort of contrib/test/helpful bits to make sure the cfn api is working.. ? | 20:38 |
| stevebaker | tempest already has boto tests for ec2 compat. I think the primary way to confirm our cfn compatibility is to add to these. These would not require heat-cfnclient at all | 20:38 |
| shardy | SpamapS: Yeah, that would work too, and just not package them | 20:39 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Agree, there was a functional test previously which did exactly that | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | Agreed to have tempest do api calls directly. | 20:39 |
| zaneb | jpeeler: clients are generally not kept in the same repo, so it's incongruous to have those ones there | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | to me, it is madness that clients were packaged in server packages anyway - but I don't know distro policies on removing executables from packages | 20:40 |
| shardy | and there was an argument about removing heat-boto vs heat-cfn, but they are actually the same tool, one symlinks to the other, it just selects a different client wrapper | 20:40 |
| shardy | ie the duplication is not significant and they can both be useful | 20:40 |
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| SpamapS | Yeah, I think its fine to have them in another repo, but I wouldn't call their presence in heat anything more than a low priority bug. | 20:41 |
| shardy | I definitely agree (despite occasional version pain) that we should keep testing the cfn api with boto instead of our own client lib | 20:41 |
| stevebaker | heat-boto is not working for me right now, but I may have old copies of keystoneclient | 20:41 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: it made some sense to me because when you change the api you also have to change the client | 20:41 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Yeah >=0.9.1 needs my patch to keystoneclient Ec2Signer | 20:41 |
| shardy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/35945/ | 20:42 |
| stevebaker | so how is heat-cfntools not broken? | 20:42 |
| shardy | sorry boto 2.9.2 | 20:42 |
| shardy | stevebaker: the jeos images don't use bleeding edge boto | 20:43 |
| shardy | e.g F18 is still 2.6.0 | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | ok | 20:43 |
| * SpamapS would just like to note that boto is the devil | 20:43 | |
| asalkeld | haha | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | so, the delete change is here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38228/ | 20:44 |
| stevebaker | import repo is here https://github.com/steveb/heat-cfnclient | 20:44 |
| topol | boto 666. the version never changes | 20:44 |
| stevebaker | launchpad and pypi are set up and ready to go | 20:44 |
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| zaneb | SpamapS: but if anybody is ever going to use the cfn-api again, they'll almost certainly be using boto to do it | 20:44 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: I wrote my own cfn calls for os-collect-config | 20:45 |
| shardy | stevebaker: what do we gain by moving to a new repo, vs just moving to a subdir in heat master? | 20:45 |
| SpamapS | and just used keystoneclient for ec2signer | 20:45 |
| stevebaker | removing a bunch of client specific code from "common" | 20:45 |
| stevebaker | the only thing really common between client, api and engine is exceptions | 20:45 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: yeah, the in-instance side is a different story | 20:45 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Ok, well if you can get past sdake's objections, I'm not opposed to it | 20:46 |
| SpamapS | https://github.com/stackforge/os-collect-config/blob/master/os_collect_config/cfn.py | 20:46 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: from the API perspective, you're either migrating from AWS and therefore using boto, or not and you should just jump straight to the native api | 20:46 |
| stevebaker | using boto is not mandatory though | 20:47 |
| shardy | Yeah, we've found a lot of CFN incompatibilities by using boto for testing | 20:47 |
| asalkeld | ec2signer | 20:47 |
| asalkeld | zane for in-instance calls | 20:47 |
| shardy | but nobody is saying users have to use it, and the upstream is pretty unresponsive at times | 20:47 |
| stevebaker | another thing, if we can outright kill heat-cfn then authtoken middleware can be removed from the cfn pipeline. <-- I would really like to do that | 20:48 |
| zaneb | the point is, if we're going to have a compatibility api, it should be compatible | 20:48 |
| topol | stevebaker, what would replace authtoken middelware if you remove it? | 20:48 |
| stevebaker | either kill heat-cfn or implement an ec2token auth strategy for it | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, you mean just use boto | 20:48 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: I'd be more in favor of killing heat-cfn than heat-boto | 20:49 |
| zaneb | I'm all for killing heat-cfn and just keeping heat-boto | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | topol: ec2token provides auth for ec2 signed requests, like boto and heat-cfntools does | 20:49 |
| shardy | (even though they are the same code at the top level) | 20:49 |
| topol | stevebaker, gotcha. thanks | 20:49 |
| zaneb | shardy: right, but there's a whole client.py file we can delete | 20:50 |
| shardy | zaneb: woohoo | 20:50 |
| shardy | heat-watch will die after the ceilometer migration is complete too | 20:50 |
| shardy | Ok, lets move on | 20:51 |
| shardy | #topic open discussion | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:51 | |
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| shardy | 9 minutes, anyone have anything to raise | 20:51 |
| asalkeld | someone on #heat didn't want to use *any* aws api | 20:51 |
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| asalkeld | including ec2signers | 20:52 |
| asalkeld | alarming now depends on ec2signers | 20:52 |
| asalkeld | is that a problem | 20:52 |
| stevebaker | yes, deployers are disabling all ec2 features on advice of legal :/ | 20:52 |
| randallburt | asalkeld: not an unreasonable request considering | 20:52 |
| shardy | asalkeld: I think long term it would be nice to make the cfn API optional, but the signing scheme is separate from that | 20:52 |
| SpamapS | I think until keystone has oauth, or we embrace trusts... ec2 signer is it. | 20:52 |
| topol | stevebaker, wow when did that advice come down? | 20:52 |
| shardy | ie couldn't we just allow the pre-signed URL mechanism to also work via the ReST API? | 20:52 |
| stevebaker | shardy: not according to the lawyers | 20:53 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: s/deployers/a single deployer/ | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: yes | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | to our knowledge | 20:53 |
| randallburt | not true <.< >.> | 20:53 |
| SpamapS | Many other orgs have come to the opposite conclusion regarding the legality of using AWS apis. | 20:53 |
| shardy | stevebaker: sigh, so we have to reinvent something new and probably less secure, huurah | 20:53 |
| asalkeld | at the moment there is not really a nice alternative | 20:53 |
| SpamapS | s/a single deployer/a subset of deployers/ | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | renaming the endpoint and the class would probably do ;) | 20:54 |
| randallburt | lols. they are only lawyers after all :D | 20:54 |
| shardy | SpamapS: trusts still does not provide any mechanism for signing requests | 20:54 |
| SpamapS | asalkeld: oauth or trusts will work fine. | 20:54 |
| SpamapS | don't need to sign the req | 20:54 |
| topol | +1 on oauth! | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | is that ready yet? | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | (oauth) | 20:54 |
| SpamapS | You have been authorized for the API call. | 20:54 |
| randallburt | the lack of os native key escrow is a pita too | 20:55 |
| topol | asalkeld, getting close. still out for reviews | 20:55 |
| zaneb | oauth sounds like the Right Thing | 20:55 |
| shardy | SpamapS: the whole point of pre-signing is to avoid deploying credentials in the instance (or elsewhere, e.g to another service) | 20:55 |
| topol | stevemar loves feedback | 20:55 |
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| asalkeld | so what I am getting at is do I have to rework my ceilo patches | 20:56 |
| shardy | SpamapS: so trusts may work, but we'd need to use other means to lock down the request (role based policy, and even then we can't restrict the content of the request | 20:56 |
| SpamapS | shardy: agreed that that is superior to oauth. | 20:56 |
| asalkeld | (and ceilometer) | 20:56 |
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| stevebaker | asalkeld: not yet, there is no alternative yet | 20:56 |
| shardy | I just think if we're going to reinvent a new solution it should be at least as secure, definitely not less secure, otherwise what's the point? | 20:56 |
| asalkeld | ok, well I'll leave as is for now | 20:57 |
| asalkeld | issue raised ... | 20:57 |
| SpamapS | Sounds like a feature to push for soon. The right answer may be to copy whatever swift does for its signed urls. | 20:57 |
| shardy | Yeah we can keep mulling the alternatives :) | 20:57 |
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| topol | is there a use case where heat benefits from oauth? | 20:58 |
| shardy | Ok nearly out of time, anything else or are we done? | 20:59 |
| topol | thought the plan was to use trust? | 20:59 |
| topol | s | 20:59 |
| shardy | out of time, thanks all! | 20:59 |
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| shardy | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 24 20:59:26 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-07-24-20.00.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-07-24-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-07-24-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
| asalkeld | I believe oauth is better than trusts topol | 20:59 |
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