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| markmc | hey | 14:00 |
| markmc | do we have peeps? | 14:00 |
| ewindisch | o/ | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 14:01 |
| markwash | \o | 14:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 14:01 |
| markmc | cool, let's get going | 14:01 |
| markmc | simo, russellb, yo | 14:01 |
| markmc | #startmeeting oslo | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri May 3 14:01:35 2013 UTC. The chair is markmc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 14:01 |
| beagles | o/ | 14:01 |
| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/Messaging | 14:01 |
| markmc | no, that's no what I meant :) | 14:01 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 14:01 |
| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo | 14:02 |
| markmc | ok, so the agenda today is to talk about messaging in havana | 14:02 |
| markmc | I'm figuring there are two major topics - the proposed new API and the message security work | 14:02 |
| simo | hey | 14:02 |
| markmc | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/HavanaOsloMessaging | 14:02 |
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| * markmc just started gathering info in the etherpad above | 14:03 | |
| markmc | anyone want to cover anything other than messaging today? | 14:03 |
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| markmc | ok then | 14:04 |
| markmc | messaging it is | 14:04 |
| markmc | let's start with the new API design | 14:04 |
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| markmc | #topic new messaging API design | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new messaging API design (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:04 | |
| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/Messaging | 14:04 |
| markmc | I think we got through a tonne of stuff in the thread | 14:05 |
| dhellmann | I haven't had a chance to update that page with the results of the email thread. I'm going to try to get that done today. | 14:05 |
| markmc | ok, great | 14:05 |
| markmc | I got back into it today | 14:05 |
| markmc | and pushed this: | 14:05 |
| markmc | https://github.com/markmc/oslo-incubator/commit/1f2f7fab | 14:05 |
| markmc | I think there's a few things in there that'll make you happy dhellmann | 14:06 |
| markmc | no reference to cfg.CONF | 14:06 |
| * dhellmann dances! | 14:06 | |
| markmc | transport URLs | 14:06 |
| markmc | dispatcher stuff should be clearer | 14:06 |
| markmc | there's something else | 14:06 |
| markmc | oh, yes | 14:06 |
| dhellmann | cool, dispatching was the part I was supposed to put in the wiki | 14:06 |
| markmc | messaging.transport, messaging.target | 14:06 |
| markmc | kinda forms a base messaging layer | 14:07 |
| markmc | independent of RPC details | 14:07 |
| markmc | now, there's no user-facing API for dealing with raw messages | 14:07 |
| markmc | but at least the code is split that way | 14:07 |
| dhellmann | that's good enough for me, for now | 14:07 |
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| dhellmann | should we go ahead and post comments on github? | 14:07 |
| * jd__ eyebrow raising | 14:07 | |
| simo | markmc: oh now I see why my stuff stopped working (no CONF etc..) :-) | 14:07 |
| markmc | I need to update the wiki page with how the design has changed a bit | 14:08 |
| markmc | jd__, whyso ? | 14:08 |
| markmc | simo, don't follow? | 14:08 |
| simo | markmc: with russellb we were discussing about having better initialization of rpc so that we can set things like 'source' name for sining | 14:08 |
| markmc | so, I could walk through the patch | 14:08 |
| jd__ | markmc: good surprise you worked on this so quickly :) | 14:08 |
| ewindisch | simo: I believe this is mark's private repository, | 14:08 |
| ewindisch | this isn't upstream yet | 14:08 |
| markmc | talk to the changes etc. | 14:08 |
| simo | I currently have some not very nice global as there is no way to pass down info | 14:08 |
| markmc | or would people just prefer to go and poke at it in their own time? | 14:09 |
| markmc | jd__, ah, ok :) | 14:09 |
| simo | ewindisch: yeah I realized too late after I typed the above :) | 14:09 |
| markmc | jd__, it's all just stubbed out for now | 14:09 |
| markmc | simo, the new design should definitely help | 14:09 |
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| markmc | simo, but it'd be interested in looking in detail later | 14:09 |
| ewindisch | markmc: I still think the idea of a server is effectively broken as it pertains to a target | 14:10 |
| markmc | ewindisch, I don't understand the statement, so elaborate | 14:10 |
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| markmc | dhellmann, comments in github, on the mailing list, wherever - all good | 14:11 |
| dhellmann | ok | 14:11 |
| markmc | dhellmann, pull requests happily received too :) | 14:11 |
| ewindisch | markmc: we don't have a "server" to send things through with ZeroMQ, but we could institute a different messaging domain of some sort. | 14:11 |
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| ewindisch | for instance, we can do messaging over a different port | 14:11 |
| markmc | ewindisch, the "server" concept is abstracted away from the underlying transport | 14:11 |
| * rustlebee appears late | 14:11 | |
| markmc | when you invoke a method, you're invoking it on a server | 14:12 |
| markmc | or multiple servers | 14:12 |
| markmc | it is fundamentally a client/server API | 14:12 |
| markmc | it's abstract enough that the transport can handle that any way it makes sense | 14:12 |
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| markmc | the client doesn't address a server | 14:12 |
| ewindisch | markmc: oh, Target(server=) is specifica to sending to a host? | 14:13 |
| markmc | it addresses an (exchange, topic, namespace, topic) tuple | 14:13 |
| markmc | where there are a pool of servers listening | 14:13 |
| markmc | it can send direct to one of them by narrowing to | 14:13 |
| markmc | (exchange, topic, namespace, topic, server) | 14:13 |
| ewindisch | I suppose that is confusing to me because RPCClient refers to host= on prepare() | 14:13 |
| simo | markmc: can you give me an example of what that tuple would actually look like ? (why 2 topics for example?) | 14:14 |
| markmc | ewindisch, thanks, that host reference is a bug - will fix | 14:14 |
| markmc | oh, there's an important caveat - no python interpretor has read these files yet :) | 14:14 |
| markmc | simo, ok | 14:15 |
| markwash | :-) | 14:15 |
| ewindisch | markmc: I still think peer is clearer, but I have no real complaint as long as we're consistent | 14:15 |
| flaper87 | :P | 14:15 |
| markmc | (nova, scheduler, <null>, '1.0', 'server1') | 14:15 |
| markmc | versus | 14:15 |
| markmc | (nova, compute, base, '1.5', 'server2') | 14:15 |
| dhellmann | why have both topic and namespace? | 14:15 |
| markmc | ewindisch, they're fundamentally not peers | 14:15 |
| markmc | dhellmann, russell added it very recently | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | so that's in the existing api? | 14:16 |
| markmc | dhellmann, allows you to have multiple interfaces hanging off a topic | 14:16 |
| simo | markmc: '1.0' IS A TOPIC NAME ? | 14:16 |
| markmc | dhellmann, his use case was having a "base" interface that all topics expose | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I wasn't sure why that was a good idea | 14:16 |
| simo | ops caps :/ | 14:16 |
| markmc | simo, sorry, no - it's a version | 14:16 |
| ewindisch | markmc: I disagree? In the abstract, they are. In AMQP, they're peers communicating through a broker. In ZeroMQ they're directly communicating peers. | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | like a ping()? | 14:16 |
| markmc | simo, (exchange, topic, namespace, version) | 14:16 |
| simo | ahhh | 14:16 |
| simo | ok now it makes more sense | 14:17 |
| simo | markmc: so you envision the ability foir the client to choose the message version too ? | 14:17 |
| markmc | ewindisch, you're wrong - they can be peers at the transport level, not from the perspective of e.g. Nova calling a method on a compute node | 14:17 |
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| rustlebee | dhellmann: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/baserpc.py | 14:17 |
| markmc | ewindisch, in that case, the scheduler is a client and compute is a server | 14:17 |
| simo | is this the eenvelope version or rpc version ? | 14:17 |
| markmc | ewindisch, the roles can be reversed later | 14:17 |
| markmc | ewindisch, but in terms of that call operation, there is a client and server | 14:17 |
| dhellmann | rustlebee: thanks | 14:18 |
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| markmc | simo, rpc version, envelope version isn't exposed in the API | 14:18 |
| markmc | simo, it's a transport implementation detail | 14:18 |
| rustlebee | dhellmann: that's how it's used so far ... every service has that served up, as well as its service specific api | 14:18 |
| simo | ok, sorry still making my way through some of this stuff | 14:18 |
| markmc | simo, np | 14:18 |
| ewindisch | again, no complaint as long as we're consistent with the terminology we choose | 14:18 |
| simo | markmc: I assume server is actually something like: compute.my.little.nodeout.there ? | 14:19 |
| dhellmann | rustlebee: ok, I think I saw that review go past, but haven't had a chance to look at it in detail. Makes some sense, although I think we're bleeding dispatch abstractions into the caller. | 14:19 |
| markmc | simo, server is a hostname | 14:19 |
| markwash | markmc: FWIW I'm thrilled at the new interface | 14:19 |
| simo | markmc: without the type ? | 14:19 |
| markmc | simo, doesn't have to be DNS resolvable though | 14:19 |
| ewindisch | I need to look through this to see how cells are handled. I suppose via the tranport uri? | 14:19 |
| markmc | simo, type? as in str? | 14:19 |
| markwash | markmc: and the code groks a lot better for me as well | 14:19 |
| simo | service type | 14:19 |
| markmc | ewindisch, yes, transport url | 14:19 |
| rustlebee | dhellmann: yeah, would be happy to hear your feedback. i'm not tied to how it works ... if we change it, the sooner the better | 14:19 |
| simo | copute/scheduler/whatever | 14:19 |
| markmc | simo, that's the topic | 14:19 |
| markmc | markwash, thanks | 14:20 |
| simo | markmc: so you keep them separate ok, | 14:20 |
| * ttx appears later | 14:20 | |
| dhellmann | rustlebee: well, I still think we should just define message types and have RPC callers indicate where to send a response, but I think I've lost that argument a few times so I'm no longer pushing it. :-) | 14:20 |
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| markwash | dhellmann: oh interesting | 14:21 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: I don't know what that argument was about | 14:21 |
| dhellmann | markmc: have you had a chance to look at tulip, and how this may or may not play well there? | 14:21 |
| flaper87 | but sounds interesting | 14:21 |
| markmc | dhellmann, nope, would be happy to get a pointer and some thoughts on relevance | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: clients shouldn't know which method in a server they're invoking. They should send a message asking for data or action, and the server should be able to dispatch that however it wants. | 14:22 |
| rustlebee | markmc: thanks a lot for driving this new API ... long needed, and looking really nice | 14:22 |
| markmc | rustlebee, thanks | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | markmc: I need to research more myself, but was hoping you had more time. I wonder, for example, if Listener should be iterable, though? | 14:23 |
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| dhellmann | #link http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3156/ | 14:23 |
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| dhellmann | that may be a driver-level thing, rather than something the API needs to worry about | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | #link http://code.google.com/p/tulip/ | 14:24 |
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| * dhellmann hopes to get rid of eventlet with the move to python 3 | 14:24 | |
| ewindisch | I do think we shouldn't continue to be tied to eventlet. | 14:24 |
| markmc | dhellmann, yeah, Listener could well be improved - I think the concept of the dispatcher saying "give me a message", then dispatching it and then saying "thanks I'm done with that message" is nice | 14:24 |
| ewindisch | EventletRPCDispatcher seems the opposite of that, tying our API intimately with Eventlet | 14:24 |
| jd__ | any move to designing the API to be asynchronous? | 14:24 |
| dhellmann | ewindisch: the idea would be we could switch dispatchers without rewriting everything else | 14:25 |
| rustlebee | dhellmann: sounds like a pretty reasonable time to finally get that done ... especially if it's going to be baked into Python | 14:25 |
| markwash | ewindisch: does it? it seems like the api is saying "you can replace this dispatcher with something equivalent" | 14:25 |
| dhellmann | and every driver wouldn't have eventlet stuff in it | 14:25 |
| rustlebee | dhellmann: kind of makes the appeal of looking into an alternative in the meantime much smaller ... | 14:25 |
| dhellmann | rustlebee: right on both counts, but trying to plan ahead to avoid major issues | 14:25 |
| rustlebee | dhellmann: sure | 14:25 |
| markmc | dhellmann, re: eventlet, that's totally why I've made it an explicit part of the API | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | markmc: yep | 14:26 |
| markmc | dhellmann, i.e. services can move to eventlet by adding a new dispatcher | 14:26 |
| flaper87 | FWIW, makes totally sense to me | 14:26 |
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| dhellmann | is that Listener class used in the client and the server? | 14:26 |
| flaper87 | s/totally/total/ | 14:26 |
| markmc | dhellmann, nope, just the server | 14:26 |
| ewindisch | markmc: drivers themselves do tricks with eventlet. ZeroMQ for sure. In fact, the driver would probably be rewritten quite a bit to work with tulip. | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | ok | 14:27 |
| markmc | ewindisch, driver eventlet tricks will need to be similarly abstracted | 14:27 |
| rustlebee | yar | 14:27 |
| ewindisch | so that introduces a challenge as well… some of that might be solvable by recognizing where we're spawning threads and abstracting that out, preferably into common | 14:27 |
| markmc | ok, that's 25 minutes of details ... got to move on | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | yeah, maybe the dispatcher needs to know about a class in the driver, either through convention or a plugin loader | 14:27 |
| markmc | the thing I wanted to do a straw poll on was in the etherpad | 14:27 |
| markmc | https://etherpad.openstack.org/HavanaOsloMessaging | 14:28 |
| markmc | "Two approaches to getting this merged when we're happy with the current design:" | 14:28 |
| markmc | the first, incremental approach would be the way I'd usually prefer to do it | 14:28 |
| markmc | but (and this is a big but) if we thought we could parallelize and get this done early enough in havana | 14:28 |
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| markmc | I could live with doing this in parallel with the old code base | 14:29 |
| simo | markmc: this is effectively a parallel API | 14:29 |
| simo | right ? | 14:29 |
| markmc | so long as we do actually delete the old code base soon | 14:29 |
| markmc | simo, parallel API is option (2) yeah | 14:29 |
| flaper87 | I'm more for option 2 | 14:29 |
| markmc | simo, and really this choice impacts the message security work than anything else | 14:29 |
| simo | markmc: is there any chance you can change the old API to use the new one underneath ? | 14:29 |
| simo | or is that too hard ? | 14:29 |
| ewindisch | markmc: in option #2, you'd fork the drivers? | 14:29 |
| markmc | simo, that's option (1) I think | 14:29 |
| markmc | ewindisch, yes | 14:30 |
| flaper87 | seems like cleaner and with less risks | 14:30 |
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| ewindisch | for me, that seems like twice the amount of work in Havana. | 14:30 |
| markmc | simo, oh, I see what you mean - no that's another option | 14:30 |
| flaper87 | at the end, the old rpc would be removed anyway | 14:30 |
| markmc | ewindisch, give an example of twice the amount of work? | 14:30 |
| simo | markmc: that might be a way to get stuff initally in in parallel, test a few services with the new api | 14:30 |
| simo | and subvert all others with the wrapper | 14:31 |
| simo | and kill the orginal rpc de facto | 14:31 |
| dhellmann | is the goal to get all of the other projects using this by the end of H, or just to get it working by then? | 14:31 |
| jd__ | didn't get any answer, so retrying: any move to designing the API to be asynchronous? | 14:31 |
| simo | then slowly convert services to the new api | 14:31 |
| markmc | simo, I'm not too concerned about converting the services to the new API, it's more about implementing the drivers under the new API and such | 14:31 |
| ewindisch | markmc: I arguably have a full release's worth of work to do on rpc-related stuff. I'll need to get those things into the old rpc driver. I'll also need them in the new driver | 14:31 |
| markmc | simo, we couldn't support the old API with the new API | 14:31 |
| simo | markmc: I am for whatever reduces the amount of time 2 implementations live in parallel | 14:31 |
| dhellmann | jd__: I think that's related to the discussion of dispatcher above. We're trying to abstract that out of the drivers. Do you want the public API to be async? | 14:32 |
| ewindisch | but I could move the matchmaker out into its own top-level oslo-incubator project and not duplicate that code | 14:32 |
| markmc | simo, if we parallelized, I'd say the goal would be to get all the servers moved over by havana-2 | 14:32 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: yes | 14:32 |
| ewindisch | which would make this all much easier for me | 14:32 |
| simo | markmc: what are the risks here ? | 14:32 |
| markmc | ewindisch, well, first - getting this done asap helps zmq more than most anything else | 14:32 |
| markmc | ewindisch, so a bit of pain in the short term for zmq should help you in the long run | 14:32 |
| dhellmann | jd__: I'd be interested to see what that looks like | 14:32 |
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| markmc | ewindisch, and if you have new zmq stuff to do in havana, and we do the parallel approach, just do it in the new API | 14:33 |
| markmc | ewindisch, since the old one would be dead and gone by havana-2 | 14:33 |
| simo | jd__: truly asynchronous APIs are really hard, what is the driver ? | 14:33 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: I've some experience with this related to my years working on XCB, so I'd be happy to help, I think it may be interesting :) | 14:33 |
| ewindisch | markmc: if the old one will be gone in havana-2 and we get the projects to consume it, then I'm okay with parallelizing it. | 14:33 |
| markmc | jd__, I'd be interested in ideas for sure | 14:34 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 14:34 |
| markmc | ewindisch, cool | 14:34 |
| ewindisch | I do see a lot more risk to that, though | 14:34 |
| rustlebee | does it need to be in tree? a feature branch hacking the current API until it's ready? | 14:34 |
| * mordred also raises eyebrows | 14:34 | |
| ewindisch | (if we don't get it done by havana-2, or if the projects don't consume it) | 14:34 |
| markmc | well, getting it done for havana-2 assumes we do actually parallelize the work | 14:34 |
| mordred | gah. sorry - responding to scrollback- forget I was scrolledback :) | 14:34 |
| markmc | so, that's what the list of tasks are for | 14:34 |
| ewindisch | it sounds less like parallelizing the work and abandoning the old stuff | 14:34 |
| markmc | ewindisch, saw what? | 14:35 |
| markmc | say what, I mean? | 14:35 |
| ewindisch | *and more like abandoning | 14:35 |
| markmc | so you don't think this parallelizes the work of getting to the new API? | 14:35 |
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| simo | markmc: I am thinking that if you cannot make a wrapper to use old coe with the new api that putting 2 in in parallel and converting quickly all services and finally ripping out the old interface would be the way to go | 14:36 |
| markmc | what I mean is, we can have multiple people sign up for the the tasks in the etherpad | 14:36 |
| ewindisch | markmc: if we're removing the old rpc code in havana-2, I don't think we'll be doing much work on the old rpc code at all. | 14:36 |
| markmc | if we have enough people willing to help, then havana-2 is probably achievable | 14:36 |
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| markwash | re new ideas for the interface, all the ones mentioned have sounded cool, but if we want to make the switch in this release, we need to timebox the process of discussing/implementing other interface ideas to ASAP in havana | 14:36 |
| markmc | but e.g. if I need to port each driver myself, then port each project, etc. | 14:36 |
| simo | markmc: otherwise you need a flag day to change everything in one go and that may be painful | 14:36 |
| markmc | havana-2 is less likely | 14:36 |
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| ewindisch | markmc: parallelizing the task list is another matter, perhaps I misunderstood your intention there. | 14:36 |
| markmc | and parallelizing the work isn't useful anyway | 14:36 |
| simo | markmc: Is it too harsh to tell people: port your driver whithin day X or it will be ripped off ? :-) | 14:37 |
| markmc | simo, well, the "beauty" of oslo-incubator's "managed copy and paste" approach is that incompatible changes don't need a flag day | 14:37 |
| markmc | simo, heh | 14:37 |
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| markmc | ok, anyone up for signing up to any of those tasks ? | 14:38 |
| markmc | e.g. who'll port the rabbit, qpid and zmq drivers? | 14:38 |
| simo | ah "beauty" ... first time I hear ti in the context of copy&paste :) | 14:38 |
| flaper87 | qpid +1 | 14:38 |
| markmc | simo, "less ugly" - that's what the "managed" bit implies :) | 14:39 |
| simo | markmc: so the message format is totally unchanged here ? | 14:39 |
| markmc | flaper87, cool | 14:39 |
| markmc | simo, yes | 14:39 |
| ewindisch | markmc: I'm obviously gonna lead porting zmq. | 14:39 |
| markmc | ewindisch, great | 14:39 |
| simo | markmc: oh well in that case I am ok either way given no flag day is necessary | 14:39 |
| simo | markmc: ah except any new feature will be blocked | 14:39 |
| simo | because you cannot import oslo-incubator into a service until it is converted | 14:40 |
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| markmc | markwash, re: tests - what I'd love if someone could take that github branch and start writing basic tests for the framework | 14:40 |
| ewindisch | markmc: special interests for me will be ceilometer, quantum, and nova-cells. | 14:40 |
| markmc | markwash, maybe a fake driver would help | 14:40 |
| markwash | markmc: cloning now | 14:40 |
| markmc | simo, yes | 14:40 |
| markmc | markwash, awesome | 14:40 |
| flaper87 | markmc: forked | 14:40 |
| rustlebee | there is a fake driver now | 14:40 |
| markmc | ewindisch, that's a lot | 14:41 |
| seagulls | (flaper87 - you can count on me for expedited review and sounding board for qpid driver port) | 14:41 |
| simo | markmc: gives incentive to port stuff though | 14:41 |
| markmc | I'd really like someone more familiar with cells to take on that | 14:41 |
| ewindisch | markmc: I'm not saying I'd port them. | 14:41 |
| simo | so I am for it | 14:41 |
| markmc | ewindisch, ok, that's what I'm asking about | 14:41 |
| markwash | markmc: which branch is it on your repo? | 14:41 |
| flaper87 | seagulls: awesome, thanks | 14:41 |
| ewindisch | markmc: I'm saying I'm going to be keeping an eye on them -- so I'll be a resource on them, but as you said, I'll be too busy to lead. | 14:41 |
| markmc | rustlebee, yeah, porting the fake driver could be the way to start | 14:42 |
| markmc | markwash, messaging | 14:42 |
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| markmc | ok, great | 14:43 |
| markmc | let's assume we're going for option (2) | 14:43 |
| * markwash has to catch a bus in 5 minutes, will see what he can get done on the train this morning | 14:43 | |
| ewindisch | should we split out developer versus deployer docs? | 14:43 |
| flaper87 | markmc: FWIW, I prefer option 2 | 14:43 |
| markmc | I won't block new features in openstack.common.rpc until we're more confident about getting this done for havana-2 | 14:43 |
| markmc | markwash, thanks | 14:43 |
| markwash | yes, I take a bus AND a train | 14:43 |
| markmc | switching topics | 14:44 |
| markmc | #topic message security | 14:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "message security (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:44 | |
| seagulls | markmc: I'm leaning to 2.. frankly the argument that the drivers are going to go away anyways was the key winning point | 14:44 |
| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/MessageSecurity | 14:44 |
| markmc | seagulls, great | 14:44 |
| markmc | simo, want to give us an update? | 14:44 |
| * rustlebee is pumped to see this moving | 14:45 | |
| * markmc notes the reviews simo just pushed | 14:46 | |
| simo | mnasure | 14:46 |
| simo | markmc: sure | 14:46 |
| markmc | #link https://review.openstack.org/28154 | 14:46 |
| simo | so I have code that implements all the crypto described in the wiki page | 14:46 |
| markmc | #link https://review.openstack.org/28153 | 14:46 |
| simo | and I am cleaning up the 2 patches after gerrit complained a bit :) | 14:46 |
| ewindisch | I've looked at the reviews. Considering how much discussion on this is still in progress, I'd like to see this abstracted a bit more. | 14:46 |
| simo | the patches have tests to verify all is in good working | 14:46 |
| simo | and the code is structured so that messaging is completely optional at this point | 14:47 |
| simo | ewindisch: abstracted how/where ? | 14:47 |
| ewindisch | simo: such that a secure-messaging driver can be selected. There is a good chance we'll also push PKI. | 14:48 |
| markmc | ewindisch, can be done later - it'll be hidden behind the public facing API | 14:49 |
| simo | ewindisch: it should be easy to subclass SecureMessage | 14:49 |
| simo | as you can see it only offers 'encode' and 'decode' | 14:49 |
| simo | so the upper layer has no knowledge of what is being used | 14:49 |
| ewindisch | markmc: true, but some of the config options that might be specific to the shared-key approach seem to be in __init__.py | 14:50 |
| simo | and the data needed is m passed in through 'metadata' which is just a dict | 14:50 |
| simo | ewindisch: 2 options | 14:50 |
| markmc | ewindisch, yes, we'd introduce a config option later to choose a different security driver - it's not an issue | 14:50 |
| simo | 1. whether secure messaging is optional or required | 14:50 |
| ewindisch | and errors note stuff like HMAC, etc.. | 14:50 |
| simo | that is universal | 14:51 |
| markmc | ewindisch, we have transport driver specific config options similarly | 14:51 |
| simo | 2. keys and adding pki: type will be banal | 14:51 |
| ewindisch | I'm not saying this needs a rewrite or anything. We might need to just sanitize it slightly | 14:51 |
| markmc | let's take it as a given we can abstract this further and add alternative drivers later | 14:51 |
| rustlebee | all sounds like easy enough stuff to add if you actually did another driver at some point | 14:51 |
| simo | ewindisch: there is a secureMessageException class | 14:51 |
| simo | you just need to catch on that | 14:51 |
| ewindisch | especially since if we *do* change algorithms later (even for this implementation) we don't want to have to update all our docstrings, etc | 14:51 |
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| simo | and you'll extend it with PKI specific tests for PKI exceptions | 14:52 |
| markmc | ewindisch, I want to move on - your point is taken | 14:52 |
| ewindisch | when you think about translations, etc | 14:52 |
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| markmc | simo, how much work is required on the keystone side? | 14:52 |
| dhellmann | how does this fit in with the new API? | 14:52 |
| simo | markmc: well technically it is just 2 REST calls | 14:52 |
| simo | markmc: but also database is needed | 14:52 |
| markmc | dhellmann, good question - I don't think it's visible through the API | 14:52 |
| simo | the crypto is all in crypto already | 14:52 |
| simo | so I will probably just reuse it | 14:52 |
| markmc | simo, ok | 14:53 |
| simo | *all in crypto.py* | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | markmc: the set_service_name() and get_service_name() functions that operate on globals may need to be incorporated to take into account multiple listeners | 14:53 |
| markmc | simo, are keystone folks on board with adding those? | 14:53 |
| dhellmann | either that, or they go away | 14:53 |
| simo | markmc: I will work on it starting today, but I have some travel in less than 10 days | 14:53 |
| markmc | simo, would they be in the v3 API? so, you'd have to have that API enabled for this? | 14:53 |
| simo | so I might have it ready and tested by the end of may I think | 14:53 |
| markmc | simo, ok | 14:53 |
| simo | markmc: I am thinking we might want a separate endpoint for keyserver | 14:54 |
| markmc | dhellmann, ok, will look at that | 14:54 |
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| markmc | simo, ah! | 14:54 |
| simo | keystone is just the project where it lives | 14:54 |
| rustlebee | i figured they would become arguements to client/server classes | 14:54 |
| simo | but we may want to be able to move it elsewhere | 14:54 |
| rustlebee | and localized there | 14:54 |
| simo | markmc: not set in stone yet though | 14:54 |
| dhellmann | rustlebee: the service name stuff? | 14:54 |
| rustlebee | dhellmann: yeah | 14:54 |
| simo | markmc: adam said he needs to think about database upgrade procedures for example | 14:55 |
| markmc | rustlebee, or Target properties? | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | rustlebee: yeah, that makes sense -- I just wanted to point it out, since it's another global | 14:55 |
| simo | markmc: but the code is well selfconatined so I think by the end of the month we'll have that settled too | 14:55 |
| rustlebee | dhellmann: indeed | 14:55 |
| markmc | simo, excellent | 14:55 |
| rustlebee | re: keyserver specific endpoint ... makes sense, but also need to keep in mind that others int he community are working on a keyserver service | 14:55 |
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| rustlebee | and i would expect them to want to expose that endpoint | 14:56 |
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| rustlebee | but maybe it starts in keystone and moves there if/when that ever becomes a real thing | 14:56 |
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| seagulls | simo: the different endpoint thing makes a whole lot of sense... especially if we consider keystone's main domain different than the secure messaging domain. Allows for different deployment, implementation, etc. scenarios | 14:56 |
| simo | rustlebee: key manager != key server | 14:56 |
| seagulls | simo: +1 on that | 14:56 |
| simo | yes that's the thinking | 14:57 |
| markmc | ok, well that sounds like serious progress | 14:57 |
| markmc | nice work simo | 14:58 |
| markmc | one last topic | 14:58 |
| simo | maybe I'll call it KDC just to avoid confusion with key manager | 14:58 |
| markmc | #topic project meetings | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "project meetings (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:58 | |
| markmc | opinions? | 14:58 |
| mordred | wow. that sounds lke a kerberos thing | 14:58 |
| markmc | just schedule it for every week? | 14:58 |
| markmc | or on demand if people have topics? | 14:58 |
| simo | mordred: this design is very similar to kerberos ;-) | 14:58 |
| dhellmann | every other week? | 14:58 |
| mordred | simo: yes. :) | 14:58 |
| markmc | is this time really ok with everyone? | 14:58 |
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| dhellmann | works for me | 14:58 |
| seagulls | this time is awesome for me | 14:58 |
| mordred | ++ (even though I was just lurking today) | 14:59 |
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| ttx | haven't participated much to this one but I liked the time | 14:59 |
| rustlebee | works for me, i need to put it on my calendar | 14:59 |
| ewindisch | what time is this in EST? :) | 14:59 |
| simo | markmc: it's ok although on fri I try to not do meetings :) | 14:59 |
| mordred | simo: I may have wondered why we don't just use kerberos and add a rest api... | 14:59 |
| markmc | simo, same here :) | 14:59 |
| ewindisch | this worked really well for me in CEST, but this isn't my typical timezone... | 14:59 |
| markmc | mordred, hehe | 14:59 |
| simo | mordred: I want to be able to get there, but I want something that works for Havana | 14:59 |
| dhellmann | ewindisch: 10:00 AM | 14:59 |
| simo | mordred: and we do not have the time to make that be real kerberos | 14:59 |
| markmc | ok, great | 14:59 |
| markmc | let's wrap this up on time :) | 15:00 |
| markmc | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri May 3 15:00:04 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| ewindisch | dhellmann: ah, not too bad. | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-05-03-14.01.html | 15:00 |
| markmc | thanks everyone | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-05-03-14.01.txt | 15:00 |
| seagulls | cheers | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-05-03-14.01.log.html | 15:00 |
| mordred | yay | 15:00 |
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| noklz | OMG HI GUYS | 20:50 |
| noklz | I LOVE YOU GUYS | 20:50 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 20:50 |
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| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
| noklz | WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME BACK | 21:00 |
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| dolphm | <3 | 21:04 |
| TheRonin | wow. that happened | 21:10 |
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| simo | rofl | 21:20 |
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| noklz | hi colin who isn't the colin i know | 22:15 |
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